New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[podoboq]

My name is less confusing to type than Boem_u_dusi
VOTE: Nosferatu

[podoboq]

I don't know this wake guy, but he sounds like an asshole.
VOTE: wake

[podoboq]

podoboq ———✶ I'm asking you to provide the rationale behind your vote please.

It's basically just RVS at this point. I'm trying to take time to read people before posting a lot this game, because I've learned recently that my reads kind of suck.

Can you explain the colors behind your post? Are they randomly selected, or does red mean scumlean, green townlead, etc?

Sorry to hear about your knee. I hope everything's alright.

[podoboq]

@Almost50

Who said anything about speed murdering him?

Me.

His playstyle is beyond abrasive, it's centered on division of the town and generally just not fun to play with.

I don't know this wake guy, but he sounds like an asshole.
VOTE: wake

My post was intended as a tongue in cheek respose to 71. I've never played with Wake before.

[podoboq]

I don't know podo at all, so I thought it strange the way he behaved. He could be an alt.

I'm not. I'm just relatively new here. I have three completed games on site.

[podoboq]

Please link us those as well. Nobody seems to know you in here, which is shocking and disturbing.

Micro 594: One Night Ultimate Werewolf
I was Minion, and convinced everyone that I was Troublemaker, then claimed to switch my teammate Werewolf, so he outed himself as a Werewolf, and the town split votes on him and the person I switched him with, so even though I was playing a fantastic scum game, I lost because I made my teammate out himself. It was weird.

Newbie 1681
Won as Vanilla Townie here. I made final four, and shouldn't have won, but the last scum felt bad about the way he played, so self-voted and conceded it on us. I did catch the mafia roleblocker, though, which I was pretty proud of.

A Musical Mafia!
This game just ended. Vanilla Townie again. I was lynched in day 5, and most of my reads sucked. I learned a lot, but it's not a game I'm proud of.
Mirhawk knows me from Musical Mafia.


I'm catching up now, and generating a reads list. Sorry I've been mostly absent. I wanted to let the thread build before trying to form any reads on people. Expect some real content on me within an hour.

[podoboq]

Not a lot to read yet, but I want to get some basic thoughts on the page so that people at least have something of value to read from me.

The following reads are in no particular order.

TOWNY:

Spoiler: AGar

(Titus's) playstyle is beyond abrasive, it's centered on division of the town and generally just not fun to play with.

This is all he's said that is worth reading so far, and it's a good reason to vote somebody. I don't know how true it is, but this is a pro-town mindset.

Spoiler: Zachstralkita

I was sumreading him for being generally useless, as well as some genuinely scummy stuff, but the response he's had to his wagon reads as genuine to me, and his posting has become a lot better.

Spoiler: Performer

The no lynch vote to fish a response is towny.

Spoiler: implosion

I actually don't know why I like his posts, but I do.

NULL:

Spoiler: Mirhawk

All of the stuff some people have had a problem with, I like. A no lynch vote is an attempt to stand out and say something, but isn't inherently towny or scummy. Still not enough content here for me to read

Spoiler: Wake88

The back and forth between Titus is weird, but in theory, I agree with Wake's argument. A vote at this point is not inherently a scum read. I think that what he did

was

interrupting, because it relieves pressure from Almost50 and distracts from what Titus was trying to talk about. It's undermining, which interrupts the flow of a discussion, and stifles Titus's attempts to gain a read from the interaction. I think this was a mistake rather than something intentional, though.

SCUMMY:

Spoiler: Lapsa

It seems like there's thought going on in his posts, but there's no real analysis I that I can see, so that's a problem. You have opinions. How about explaining them?

Spoiler: Dunnstral

Lots of vote hopping, and not enough explanation of his reads.

Spoiler: Sickofit1138

I don't like the way he gave some kinda wiifm shit to push against a lynch. On his secon post on P 3

ummm town wouldnt type a post to stand out, that outs attention on them and away from hunting actual scum. ... so it sounds like you are insinuating that he is scum. i think it could be that you are scum pushing against an early mislynch.

There are a huge reach, and pretty scummy.

Spoiler: Varsoon

I get that he has basically no posts so far, but this is scummy:

Not yet.
I'm considering just hopping on whatever's popular and seeing where that tides us.

I KIND OF HAVE NO READ YET:

Almost50
shannon
Airick10
Transcend
PeregrineV
Boem_u_dusi
Titus
Nosferatu

[podoboq]

VOTE: Sickofit for now

[podoboq]

Except I do, shannon pretty much slipped and kase klosed.

Spoiler: the thing zach is calling a scumslip

Ok Sickofit1138 and Zachstralkita both mafia

HEARD HE BE SNITCHING, WELL LET ME FIND OUT HE POINTING FINGERS I BRING HIS HAND BACK PROMO VAN BLAM THAT WHOLE FUCKING FAM WHACKED, WIFEY DUCT TAPED SARAN WRAPPED AND AMTRAK'D

This is going to get really annoying if we have to deal with it all game. I don't know how many townies there are here, but can we afford to lose one if it helps the sanity of the rest of us?

Zachstral shannon maf team

If I was a mafia team with him I'd have replaced out by now, I can only imagine how annoying mafia chat must be

scumslip

I read shannon's post as "I want to policy lynch Zach." I don't agree with doing that, but I don't think it's a scumslip. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you're hearing "Zach's town, but can we kill him anyway," and I think it's, "I don't care if he's scum or town."


In my experience, scumslips are more overt than this.

[podoboq]

You have opinions. How about explaining them?

yes. of course. no problemo

^ bad

[podoboq]

this is a potentially dangerous move for you.

Thanks for reminding me, implosion.

This pinged to me sketch as fuck.

[podoboq]

????????

?????????

I re-skimmed the thread before making my reads list. I had forgotten about Boem's weird post, and am glad implosion brought it up, because it's weird.

[podoboq]

She says "I can only imagine how annoying mafia chat must be", which reinforces the belief that I am scum. It is not " I don't care if he's scum or town ". It would be without that sentence.

Oh, OK. So if I'm reading you right, the problem is that in one post, she seems to assume you're town, but then in another she's certain that you're scum. That's not how I was originally reading you. That's an inconsistency, not a scumslip. It's scummy, and it might even be worth votes, but it's not the same thing as a scumslip.

[podoboq]

325 - 328 makes me like both of these players a lot more.

[podoboq]

VOTE: Dunn

I would be OK with this. He says he voted me because I ignored him early, but I didn't have a real conversation with anyone in the game until today.

Not the only thing he's said that's scummy, but it's a bulletpoint I wanted to point out.

[podoboq]

I got Macho role modifier

What the fuck is this?

[podoboq]

I got Macho role modifier

What the fuck is this?

To clarify, I don't mean mechanically. I know what this claim means.

I'm wondering why the fuck you would claim it. There is literally no town motivation for claiming macho here accept for some elaborate gambit, so any smart player can just ignore it.

[podoboq]

Podoboq - 103 ' my reads kind of suck' sounds like scum laying the groundwork for not scumreading their buddies if caught. In 249 it seems like he's had 2 really good games and one bad one, so I think he's cleverer than he's trying to let on

Both of my town games, my reads were terrible. I caught one person between them. My scum game was fantastic, but it's also a weird variant of the game that I've played a whole ton of in person, and I had the benefit of being the only player with 100% knowledge of player's allignments going into the game.

Please read my other games, my reads do kind of suck. I think a lot of my problem comes from confirmation bias, so I was trying to not get too involved early so that I could wait until people had a bulk of posts before trying to form an opinion.

[podoboq]

Also, @shannon, I actually like most of your reads. A few of them I disagree with, but nothing stands out to me as flagrantly wrong. I think your read on me makes sense from a player who wasn't involved in my town games. Surviving a long time doesn't necessarily mean I was good. It just means I wasn't scummy enough to get lynched, but I also wasn't good enough town to be a liability to scum.

[podoboq]

262 from podo is strange. Why would you cover up reads in Spoiler tag?

The reason to spoiler is because otherwise it's a huge wall to scroll through. It's the only way to make it collapsible. As far as some of my thoughts being kind of vague, I thought I was pretty specific about why I townread or scumread people. I didn't go into heavy detail, because most players at that point had twenty posts max. There's not too much to really do a deep dive on.

[podoboq]

Townreads at this point are:

{Lapsa, podoboq, zach, sickofit, almost50, shannon, transcend, titus, dunnstral, performer, nosferatu}

Very vaguely in order of most to least confident.

This leaves a pool of (in no particular order) {wake, agar, mirhawk, boem, peregrine, airick, varsoon}.

Could you justify why Lapsa is such a high townread? I just don't see having him far above null with how generally useless his posts have been.

[podoboq]

I rather doubt scum would have randomly claimed macho.

I suppose that's fair. I've been looking at it as kind of null because I doubt town would have randomly claimed macho either. Altogether, I think it's just a stupid play, and stupid can be of any alignment.

[podoboq]

@podoboq would prefer not discussing my claim much further. ty

"I claimed for no reason, but don't want to talk about it any more."

[podoboq]

@podoboq would prefer not discussing my claim much further. ty

"I claimed for no reason, but don't want to talk about it any more."

sure. what's in it for you?

I'm not asking you to talk about your claim any more. I'm just pointing out that it seems pointless,. Nobody can take it as a serious claim, so it's basically just null, but it's a huge thing to just be null in the thread. I'm sorry for wondering aloud as to why you claimed macho. If it's going to be anti-town to discuss it any more (for reasons), then I'll drop it.

[podoboq]

@lapsa It would help, though, if I were townreading you for your other posts, but I'm not, which makes the claim extra weird to me.

[podoboq]

When has it ever been town to discuss such things on Day 1? In THIS SCENARIO, how is it town to discuss it in the first place?

When the person you're talking about is scum. But my townreads seem to think he isn't, so I'm throwing my hands up on this one.

[podoboq]

VOTE: Titus
Methinks the lady doth protest too much

But seriously, this looks like AtE.

[podoboq]

I don't trust the ability to read the game of anyone voting for me. Why should I?

The mere act of voting me is indicative of not reading the game correctly.

Intelligence is dead.

The wagon on me is not useful beyond further shattering my faith that town use any semblence of reason.

People don't put faith in a scum me, they act out of illogical scum me fears.

This new crop doesn't even understand basic terms like AtE.

AtE is appealing to people's inherent emotions, like fear. It's a legitimate scum tactic to make town doubt themselves by playing to their inherent fear that they're wrong. Instead of appealing to our intellect (by focusing on specific arguments against yourself), you're focusing on attacking people who would scumread you.


I also don't like the "handwritten" stuff from Zach, but I don't think it's scummy for the same reason I don't think his all caps song lyrics are scummy.

[podoboq]

I've never played this setup before so I'm confused.

How so? What do you already know about this setup that you know you've never played before? The only things you really should know are your role and the number of players, but this reads like you know more than that.

[podoboq]

I don't know if I believe the mason claims. But I don't have to. I can't imagine lynching a claimed mason day one.
UNVOTE:

[podoboq]

I've never played this setup before so I'm confused.

How so? What do you already know about this setup that you know you've never played before? The only things you really should know are your role and the number of players, but this reads like you know more than that.

I meant I've never played closed setup, without knowing roles.

Ah, got it. That makes sense.

[podoboq]

I usually try to question and weigh everything until I fully understand it, even if it's really small and unnoticeable.

This is how I play scum in IRL games, and it doesn't work very well. If people don't see you as a leader, they want to lynch you, because you appear to be trying too hard to own the conversation. Wake has more experience than I do on site, and I think he would play differently if he were scum, because this playstyle is clearly drawing him enemies, and most of the time for not a lot of gain. It seems like a genuine attempt to understand the game, and the players in it.

[podoboq]

I have other thoughts, that require Internet and my laptop, not my phone and also sobriety. But! The one scum game I have with Titus (that I haven't "conveniently" forgotten, contrary to how she'd like you to see it), she claimed a fucking ridiculously modified vig role to save solely herself, at the expense of handing over control of our scumkill to the fucking TOWN some nights, even though it could have literally confirmed two mafia at any given point. Lynch the "mason". More tomorrow after Bright House hooks up my shit.

This guy is town. Pushing to lynch a claimed mason is a fool's errand, and I don't think Agar is a fool. Looking forward to him getting some time to devote to this game.

[podoboq]

Not really. It's way too early to start talking about the Setup of this game, which is why I've avoided it thus far.

if you are scum - it's way easier to spot another ball.
therefore scum parties tend to duel late D1 to get upper hand

from town perspective - players seems more segregated than usual

it is peculiar that no wagon has received critical mass.
normally there would have been few L-1 already

and game seems to be fairly active and seriously played

I think a lot of players (including myself) are made apathetic and lazy by the constant 1v1ing that goes on for several pages. In my last large, scum made wall posts, and bored players into not reading the game. Which slowed it the fuck down real fast.

[podoboq]

ugly misrepresentation. i reckon boem was speaking about setup with masons

Well he's responded, and he wasn't. I wanted to know what I was missing, because I didn't think that's what he was talking about. It could have been a scumslip (sounds like it wasn't), and if it's not, it's still cool to know what he knows about this setup that's new to him.

Apparently, Boem has never played a closed game before.

[podoboq]

VOTE: Gideon

VOTE: PeregrineV
Basically nothing contributed yet. Let's change that.

[podoboq]

OK, I'm gonna go out a huge limb here. Please somebody with significantly more site experience than I look into this.

In Secret Alt Mafia 2, Joey Tribbiani scumslipped by accidentally linking to the Mafia PT. When people clicked the link, they got an error screen that says "You are not authorised to read this topic." This happened because he prepared his wall inside of the Mafia PT, and when he typed (post)74(/post), it linked to the thread he typed it in, not the main thread, where the post he intended to reference lied.

Now it's possible that I'm misunderstanding some of how that works, because I only vaguely know this story from TPP talking about it in Musical Mafia, but I'm seeing the same symptoms of it here. If I'm wrong here, and this is nothing, then sorry I brought it up, we can move on. But if I'm right, and this is the same thing, it's just straight up a scumslip. Like, a real one.

Wake posted a similarly broken url, which leads to a topic I don't have access to:

(561)

Here is the slip from Secret Alt Mafia 2. Scroll down to read the explanation of how it's a slip.


Again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding something and this is all nothing.

[podoboq]

As I've been allowed in the past, I've used old PTs of mine that only I have access to to gather my thoughts, collect ISOs, and update my Reads List.

Apparently my Reads List contained a link to that hidden PT. I can't make a new PT, but I can use an old one from my old Large Normal.

That sounds kosher to me. I'll go ahead and just assume it was nothing, then.

If you're telling the truth, which I'll just assume you are, then I'm sorry I brought it up.

[podoboq]

Actually better yet, real confirmation that Wake is telling the truth:
Post numbers are sorted chronologically. Post 0 in this game is 8019556, but the post that Wake's link directs to is 671742, which has to be far before the mafia PT was created.

Sorry Wake. I'm gonna go be sad in a corner somewhere.

[podoboq]

But be wise and don't assume I'm Town just bcause of this. I could still be Scum utilizing a PT thread to collect/gather his thoughts. Always be on your guard.

Always

[podoboq]

I don't know if I believe the mason claims. But I don't have to. I can't imagine lynching a claimed mason day one.
UNVOTE:

I have other thoughts, that require Internet and my laptop, not my phone and also sobriety. But! The one scum game I have with Titus (that I haven't "conveniently" forgotten, contrary to how she'd like you to see it), she claimed a fucking ridiculously modified vig role to save solely herself, at the expense of handing over control of our scumkill to the fucking TOWN some nights, even though it could have literally confirmed two mafia at any given point. Lynch the "mason". More tomorrow after Bright House hooks up my shit.

This guy is town.

Pushing to lynch a claimed mason is a fool's errand,

and I don't think Agar is a fool. Looking forward to him getting some time to devote to this game.

I'm finding a contradiction here.

You say you won't lynch a claim on d1, then Agar said he would. Yet you called Agar town with the excuse that he isn't foolish. How does that make

any

sense?

Sorry, I misspoke. "If AGar is scum, lynching a claimed mason day one is a fool's errand." Think of it this way, if AGar is scum, he knows his team. He's either bussing, which also kill Dunn, or he knows Titus isn't town, and is just straight up pushing for a terrible mislynch, knowingly. That's bad scum play, and that's the fool's errand I'm talking about.

He's not a fool, so he can't be doing that as scum.

[podoboq]

VOTE: nosferatu
I'm OK with this.

[podoboq]

WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING

I thought the other large I played was chaos, but what even is this? We have two different mason pair claims, four macho claims (I think two were serious), and one of the masons is also macho? Like, do the other masons want to claim a modifier too while we're at it? Are they all macho? Is every townie macho this game? Do our protective roles serve any purpose?

Why aren't we just lynching one of the claimed masons, then if they flip town, lynching the other pair? At worst, it's a two-for-one. At best, we lynch scum, and confirm another scum on day one. At this point, I'm starting to seriously consider the possibility that all of the claimed masons are scum just screwing with us.

[podoboq]

Like, do the other masons want to claim a modifier too while we're at it?

Me.

Did I miss you claiming a modifier at some point? Were you one of the jokey macho claims, but now you're gonna come back in and say it was serious?

[podoboq]

I give up. Which mason claim are we lynching?
VOTE: Titus
This slot is the most hostile of the four, so I'm happy with this.

[podoboq]

Varsoon and Zach are fakeclaiming masons

If they come back and admit that, I'll fucking reevaluate, but until then, I'm going to take their claim at face value.

[podoboq]

You can look through Zach's ISO and know it's fake. He believes our claim.

"Ruse"
I've done this. Claimed to believe a player's fake claim, see how far it goes, then out them later. It works to read other players based on how they react to the fake claim, and it gives those players time to admit that it was a fake claim, so maybe you can figure out if they were pulling a gambit for reactions sake rather than just being scum.

[podoboq]

By the way, do mason partners die if the other is killed, or is that just lovers?

This legit looks like playing dumb. Zach has enough experience to know this. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.


If they are fake claiming as town, one or both will not allow you to get lynched and will admit that it's a fake claim. If they are fake claiming as scum, accept the two-for-one.

[podoboq]

Zach has enough experience to know this. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Zach has never played in a game with a mason in it.

I would know, you wouldn't

You're right, I was mistaking Zach's site experience for Wake's.

This still doesn't factor into this:

If they are fake claiming as town, one or both will not allow you to get lynched and will admit that it's a fake claim. If they are fake claiming as scum, accept the two-for-one.

[podoboq]

I hope you're referencing podo right now and not me...

Your

mason

scum buddy is obviously talking about me.

[podoboq]

Would one of the four claimed masons like to explain to me the problem with wagoning one of the four claimed masons? It seems like a win-win situation for town.

[podoboq]

Wake, you agree that Zach and Varsoon are fake claiming masons, and that doesn't necessarily mean they're mafia, right?

I'm going to start keeping a counter here, because I feel like this isn't the last time.

If Zach and Varsoon admit that they are fake claiming, we can lynch somebody else instead, and if they are fake claiming, they will do that before a lynch.

Number of times I've had to explain this to Dunnstral: 2

[podoboq]

Would one of the four claimed masons like to explain to me the problem with wagoning one of the four claimed masons? It seems like a win-win situation for town.

Or, you let scum deal with the problem and all is revealed...ike every other time masons are claimed.

How so? Seems to me like scum would just ignore the mason claims and let town lynch one of them as the tension rises, and it becomes more and more obvious that one of them is definitely lying.

You don't let scum deal with town problems. It always benefits scum.

[podoboq]

WHY WOULD WE LYNCH A LURKER WHEN WE CAN LYNCH A PLAYER WHOSE FLIP ACTUALLY HELPS US SORT THE REMAINING PLAYERS

[podoboq]

Is this craziness typical of this sort of game?

The Large Theme I just got out of, Musical Mafia, was nowhere near this level of crazy. I think it's the players involved, not the setup, that has made this day one so stupid.

[podoboq]

Would one of the four claimed masons like to explain to me the problem with wagoning one of the four claimed masons? It seems like a win-win situation for town.

Or, you let scum deal with the problem and all is revealed...ike every other time masons are claimed.

How so? Seems to me like scum would just ignore the mason claims and let town lynch one of them as the tension rises, and it becomes more and more obvious that one of them is definitely lying.

You don't let scum deal with town problems. It always benefits scum.

I made these arguments you are making in a prior game. The mason pairs lived longer. Let's suppose one is scum for a moment, not a chance they live to lylo without being cleared. They'd be lynched before tat and twice as many links.

Or we could save the cop the check, and let him check somewhere else, because (assuming Varsoon and Zach don't come back in and admit that it's a fake claim) we know that either you and Dunn are both scum, or Varsoon and Zach are both scum. I'd rather let our PRs use their night more valuably, since we can sort the four of you by lynching any one of you. Plus, lynching scum earlier removes their night actions, which could totally be relevant.

Like, it's this simple. The chances of lynching scum day one are pretty low, all things considered. Just lynching a lurker provides us very little information off of their flip, and could feasibly hurt town a lot by removing a town PR. However, lynching among you four gives us two confirmed scum. That seems like a fantastic use of our lynch to me.

[podoboq]

However, lynching among you four gives us two confirmed scum.

No it doesn't, any way you slice it

YES IT DOES

If you and Titus are fake claiming, and we wagon any of the four of you, admit it before the hammer.
If Varsoon and Zach are fake claiming, and we wagon any of the four of you, they should admit it before the hammer.

If any of the four of you don't admit the fake claim, and allow a lynch on the assumption that the four of you are all telling the truth about being masons, you are deliberately allowing town to lynch somebody based on a lie. The only reason you would do that is if you're scum.

Number of times I've had to explain this to Dunnstral: 3

[podoboq]

You mean this lurker who has people rushing to defend him? Who can actually claim if they are a PR and instead you'd risk lynching conftown scum must shoot anyway?

Like really?

a) who is this directed at?
b) who is the lurker? me?
c) who is rushing to defend him?
d) all you have to do is claim "not mason"?
e) masons aren't conftown
f) scum don't have to shoot players they can lynch. If none of you give up on the gambit, you are a guaranteed mislynch in the future. We might as well get the information from your flip now rather than later.

[podoboq]

Scum have to shoot and tell US what they fear. They tell us about associatives.

Analyzing why mafia targeted who they targeted at night is ALWAYS wifom in my experience.

[podoboq]

LMFAO he thinks I'm actually mafia ^

if you're not then stop fake claiming right now as you're getting me lynched off he basis of you being a mason counterclaim.

I agree with this.

[podoboq]

I honestly think if you're fake claiming you should just retract lol.

This whole mason debacle is clogging the whole chat and distracting us from other scum hunting that could be done.

^^^^ this so goddamn much ^^^^
Fake claiming masons is a stupid idea, and whoever did it needs to just fess up so we can move on, or eat rope.

[podoboq]

Scum have to shoot and tell US what they fear. They tell us about associatives.

Analyzing why mafia targeted who they targeted at night is ALWAYS wifom in my experience.

Really? Scum shooting one mason and confirming the other is wifom? Like shit.

That's not analyzing WHY they killed who they killed, which is what I read when you said "tell US what they fear."

[podoboq]

Hey guys.........................

If you didn't notice, Zach unvoted me

I noticed. I'd be happy to wagon him instead.

[podoboq]

Hey guys.........................

If you didn't notice, Zach unvoted me

I noticed. I'd be happy to wagon him instead.

No

I am fully willing to compromise.

JUST NOT ON ME OR TITUS

On what do you intend to compromise, then?
I will literally vote any of the four of you.

[podoboq]

If you want to wagon him, something other than he was fakeclaiming to get someone lynched since he owned up to it before Dunn reached L minus 1.

Maybe I'm misreading this, but Zach hasn't owned up to anything.

[podoboq]

Zach isn't claiming mason so get that out of your head, we don't need to lynch in us 4.

We don't need to lynch in you four, we need to wagon in you four. Get one of the mason claims retracted.

And Zach has claimed mason, I don't care what semantic garbage you want to use to say that he didn't.

[podoboq]

Scum have to shoot and tell US what they fear. They tell us about associatives.

Analyzing why mafia targeted who they targeted at night is ALWAYS wifom in my experience.

How much experience do you have offsite?

I play mafia (we call it werewolf) in person every Friday of the week. Usually between 12 and 20 people.

[podoboq]

Nah I retract, sorry Varsoon I think they might actually be masons so I made a judgement call.

UNVOTE:
OK, sweet, now we can move on.

[podoboq]

I'm going to go ahead and assume that Varsoon's macho claim was a joke, and remove it from my spreadsheet.

[podoboq]

remove it from my spreadsheet.

You've got a spr-

nevermind.

I like to keep track of players' claims for easy access so I don't have to go digging if I forget. It's nothing more. I know Plotinus makes very elaborate spreadsheets of how players interact with one another and stuff, but mine is nothing like that. Just claims.

[podoboq]

ZACH why is implosion mafia

I'm all ears, I seriously am interested here

Why even are you voting nos

I also want to know these things. I feel like not enough players are actually justifying their reads with reasons.

[podoboq]

let transcend case him im taking five

But a significant number of players in this game seem to be scumreading transcend. If you want the wagon to happen, fucking push it.

[podoboq]

Two days, thirty five pages behind. I very much don't even want to read it.

Is there even anything important in that?

Someone just give me a summary.

Who should I vote?

Titus called a lot of people stupid for not treating her like conftown.

[podoboq]

I think I won't be playing closed setups until I get more experience, this is ridiculous

Is this craziness typical of this sort of game?

So, two groups of claimed masons. If both groups are town and picking partners at random, that's really shitty town play. If they hold other PRs and communicate with each other there's no reason to gambit as masons, there hasn't been a serious wagon on anyone yet. We need to lynch within this group and sort the town from the scum. Now that there's a CC I'm no longer following Titus.

VOTE: Dunnstral

This is exactly what I was pushing for, though. Why aren't you scumreading me for the same thing?

[podoboq]

Varsoon and Zach are fakeclaiming masons

If they come back and admit that, I'll fucking reevaluate, but until then, I'm going to take their claim at face value.

I'm not lying. Zach and I are masons.
Dunnstral and Titus are fake-claiming masons and Dunnstral is trying to lie and say that I'm fake-claiming as a mason because we caught them.

Nah I retract, sorry Varsoon I think they might actually be masons so I made a judgement call.

Dude, this is the worst kind of reaction test that you could try out.
Now no one will believe the truth (that we are masons) because you wanted to bait reactions by retreating the claim.
What'd you even get out of that?
Gah, I wish we had daychat

I give up on this back and forth.

I'll see you guys tomorrow.

[podoboq]

VOTE: Dunnstral
Doing this before going to sleep

[podoboq]

We aren't masons. I fake claimed to save Dunn because he is frankly obvtown but crappy and needs to learn to play with others.

I don't regret it.

Now if there wasn't a double fucking standard regarding claims, I would be dead N1, scum would be lynched and ALL would be sorted.

Yet this group cannot do shit.

If this is all true, and you're doing this as town, you deliberately lied to town for basically nothing. Doing so outed the actual masons (or if you don't believe them, at least ran the risk of doing so), and wasted away a huge portion of our day, for what? So that we would townread Dunn based off of false knowledge?

If you really cared about getting us to townread your buddy, you should give us actual reasons. You clearly have some logic for it. Spell it out, and if we don't buy it, then just accept that, and play mafia the way it's supposed to be played. This game just doesn't work if town can't be expected to be honest with eachother. Lying about being masons so that we trust your friend is literally the most antitown thing I've ever heard of a townie doing other than deliberately trolling, at least, if you're actually town.
VOTE: Titus

Consider this a policy lynch. I'm thinking 70% you flip scum here, but if you don't, at least we removed someone who's proven they will intentionally deceive the town.

[podoboq]

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

(Hey mod, sorry if this is rude. I don't mean to be. I did it for my own knowledge, but then decided to just post it in case it could be helpful.)

Titus (7): AGar, podoboq, shannon, Transcend, Wake88, Lapsa, Vedith
PeregrineV (2): implosion, Almost50
Wake88 (2): Sickofit1138, Performer
Sickofit1138 (2): PeregrineV, Titus
shannon (1): Mirhawk
Dunnstral (1): Varsoon
Vedith (1): Boem_u_dusi
Varsoon (1): Dunnstral
implosion (1): Zachstralkita

Not Voting: Airick10

[podoboq]

So we need 3 more.

Dunn, Zach, Boem, Varsoon, Mirhawk.

I would suggest we get Titus to theoretical L-2 and leave her there until the mod can get a vote count, just in case I missed one.

[podoboq]

3) You were trying to die N1? Why? If you're Town you could be utilized more effectively for Town by staying alive.

While it doesn't impact my decision to lynch Titus here, VT's best possible ending is being a nightkill.

[podoboq]

ISOing this game is going to be a pill, and I can legitimately understand why Titus wouldn't want to play this.

Titus caused it the environment you can imagine she doesn't want to play in.

This is NOT a town exit. She won't replace, which WOULD be a town exit.

[podoboq]

Second, you fuckers forced the mason claim by being stupid.

This is what I'm talking about. This is not how town acts, and this mentality is anti-town.

[podoboq]

Town lie. Get over yourselves.

We're not talking about a simple gambit. If you're being completely honest, you did this with the intention of deceiving the town into townreading a rando in the thread because the only way you could convince people to read him as town was to fake claim. The difference between that and a townie lie is obvious.

[podoboq]

Also, if you intended to die n1, then what do you think happens to Dunnstral tomorrow? The nonsense reason we were townreading him just goes away. Plus, he's more likely to be night-killed than you, so you're just getting him killed as well. Not only was fakeclaiming a deceitful, bad idea, but it just doesn't even accomplish you're stated goals. I don't see you making such a terrible decision as town.

[podoboq]

Both town, no night action.

Are you saying that Dunnstral has no night action, or am I misreading this? How would you know anything about Dunnstral's role?

[podoboq]

Don't over-sell it podo, or assume I'm not analyzing each and every one of your sentences either...

I'm sorry, I'm aware people are analyzing what I'm saying, but I have no intention of playing this game with Titus any more. I've never been as angry playing a game, and the fact that some people are looking past this blatant anti-town behavior is fucking flabbergasting.

[podoboq]

If you knew how to PR hunt, you wouldn't be asking me that. That is a skill I cannot answer but bottom dollar Dunn is a VT.

YOU HAVE CLAIMED VANILLA TOWNIE
THIS IS KNOWLEDGE YOU SIMPLY DON'T HAVE
NO MATTER HOW FANTASTIC YOU THINK YOU ARE AT READING PEOPLE

[podoboq]

You do what needs to happen to save town. First rule of being town.

Even if it means outing the actual masons to the scum team, cool, well done.

[podoboq]

Also, if you're so sure that Dunn is VT, and you're VT, why out actual power roles, with actual information, in order to save him? It doesn't seem worth it.

[podoboq]

You do what needs to happen to save town. First rule of being town.

Even if it means outing the actual masons to the scum team, cool, well done.

Yup but Zach and Varsoon are not masons. Just stubborn dicks.

Masons would have daychat here since scum apparently do.

Even if that's correct, it doesn't change that you took a stupid risk. implosion and AGar were masons, and they decided to counterclaim? You have no way of controlling whether or not they do, and it's totally your fault if they do.

[podoboq]

You do what needs to happen to save town. First rule of being town.

Even if it means outing the actual masons to the scum team, cool, well done.

Yup but Zach and Varsoon are not masons. Just stubborn dicks.

Masons would have daychat here since scum apparently do.

Even if that's correct, it doesn't change that you took a stupid risk. implosion and AGar were masons, and they decided to counterclaim? You have no way of controlling whether or not they do, and it's totally your fault if they do.

Should read "what if implosion etc...."

[podoboq]

LETS STOP SHAMING EACH OTHER AND GET BACK ON TRACK TO THE MATTER AT HAND I.E. FINDING MAFIA

We did

[podoboq]

I will not vote for anyone other than Titus or Dunnstral today. What they did is unforgivable if they're town, and probably scummy.

We can obviously still look for scum, but as far as I'm concerned, there is basically no situation in which we can find a slot which is more likely scum on day one.

If someone can show me any better evidence of scum, I'll change my tune, but for right now, I'm gonna go take a hot bath, calm down, then play some video games.

[podoboq]

prod dodge

I will not vote for anyone other than Titus or Dunnstral today. What they did is unforgivable if they're town, and probably scummy.

We can obviously still look for scum, but as far as I'm concerned, there is basically no situation in which we can find a slot which is more likely scum on day one.

If someone can show me any better evidence of scum, I'll change my tune, but for right now, I'm gonna go take a hot bath, calm down, then play some video games.

VOTE: Titus
Just a reminder. This is my stance for basically the rest of the day, and maybe the game. This game isn't worth playing if a person who fake claims mason to gain towncred for somebody and spends the entire game sowing chaos and discontent in the town remains.

[podoboq]

Wow, zombie lie about me sowing discontent again when the last 40 pages have been me trying to get people to agree on a wagon.

Your garbage, useless mason gambit created 30+ pages worth of garbage uselessness. Whether or not you intended it as scum (which you did), you created the problem.

[podoboq]

I can't stand for that mandatory fakeclaiming is scum on principle bullshit, by the way.

Then lynch me on principle.

[podoboq]

I can't stand for that mandatory fakeclaiming is scum on principle bullshit, by the way.

Then lynch me on principle.

Or how about you play the game?

I am. I'm trying to lynch scum.

[podoboq]

Fuck it. I haven't been impressed by Vedith and you fucks are going to let Titus off the hook.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

"Titus is scum that you're letting off the hook."
"I know there are two other players who are adamant that Titus is scum being let off the hook.......so I'm gonna vote one of them"

[podoboq]

@podo I know what you mean, as I 've considered replacing out as well. 1 or 2 people fake claiming on d1 is horrendous enough, but 4 people?? Good grief.

If we don't resolve any of this by day 2, I'm just leaving. I never thought there would be a game so bad I wanted to replace out of it, but I just can't work with people who genuinely don't have their own self interest in mind.

[podoboq]

I had no other choice. It was mason claim, break the rules, or certain town lynch. I wouldn't have done it if there was any other way.

I'm gonna go ahead and make this my last post on this for a while, since I didn't want to drag us back into uselessness, and nobody seems to be listening to reason but here we go.

"I had no other choice:"

Read the following

"It was (fake) mason claim:"

On day one. Even though doing so would probably out real masons if they were/are in the game. Even though people will probably see through it soon enough.

"Break the rules:"

If your only way to inform your read on Dunnstral is an ongoing game, you don't have enough reason to read Dunnstral as town. If you do have any other reason, just fucking explain that, and hope that's enough, because that's what the game is.

"Of certain town lynch:"

a) NOT CERTAIN TOWN,

FUCK THIS

b) According to your read, certain vanilla town............which is apparently more valuable to save from lynching on day one than protecting our power roles, even when it's unlikely to work (which it hasn't). Congratulations, we're all proud of you for such a wonderful fucking play.


Admit that it's a terrible play on your end. Or it's scum motivated, and it's fantastic, because clearly, town has bought your bullshit.

[podoboq]

@podo I know what you mean, as I 've considered replacing out as well. 1 or 2 people fake claiming on d1 is horrendous enough, but 4 people?? Good grief.

If we don't resolve any of this by day 2, I'm just leaving. I never thought there would be a game so bad I wanted to replace out of it, but I just can't work with people who genuinely don't have their own self interest in mind.

Who doesn't have their own self interest at mind? I thought Titus was scum?

The town. Including the two who outed the scum (you and Varsoon)

[podoboq]

Also, reminder, the leading wagon when Titus claimed was HERSELF. Not Dunnstral. Who was she saving from a lynch.

[podoboq]

well that's subjective buddy since I believe neither of them are scum, but if you want to let absolutes dictate your actions then go right ahead because there's many people who agree with you.

Here is the absolute I'm dealing with, are you ready for it?

If a player is damaging to town, you should lynch them.

I believe Titus is likely scum, which is obviously damaging to town. Regardless, she is

incredibly

damaging to town.

[podoboq]

Again, not stopping you just like you're not gonna stop me when she flips town and I laugh.

Regardless, she is

incredibly

damaging to town.

If she flips, whatever she flips, I will be celebrating with loads of alcohol and maybe even cake. She doesn't deserve to play this game.

[podoboq]

Certainly wasn't to survive. Policy is to lynch all mason claims @ lylo plus 1 day if not nked.

Good to know. Next time I'm scum in a group of three or more, we'll all just claim masons, and win the game. Easy. You claimed to survive

longer

, which is totally worth it, especially if you have a valuable night action, and if you're killing the smart players who know to lynch you.

[podoboq]

We spent some 40-50 pages dealing with two sets of mason claims, all of which are bullshit. Multiple people who were voting Titus have since said "I won't vote Titus today." Go and read the fucking thread and see it for yourself dickweed. Don't lurk your ass of for the whole game and then opportunistically NOT KNOW what the fuck is going on and claim "Hurr durr you left L-4 to go to L-6." You're both fucking stupid and need to read the game.

There is logic. We need

something

of fucking use to happen for now. If that means wagonning up Vedith, I'm all for it. He's been absolute shit since he came in, and he replaced a slot that contributed nothing, so we might as well consider him a fresh start. Am I pissed that we're not going to powerlynch the fuck out of scumbag Titus today? Absolutely. But don't be part of the dipshit brigade, this is a logical and intentional move.

I have read the last 2 days of the game. After V/LA, I simply gave up on the first 3 days reading through 60+ pages. However... yes I acknowledged in post 2309 that the town maybe open to discussing Dunn/Titus further in D2.

That being said, you've had a vote on Titus throughout 100+ pages of posts. Titus is also the closest to be lynched now. I do not find it logical to bail on her to follow the Vedith wagon. The first thing you mention is that he's been absolute shit since he came in. There's no logic there. If you want to say he hasn't contributed, fine. If you come out and say you feel more confident Vedith is scum, fine. But don't try to come across that you casted a logical vote blaming the town on not riding the Titus vote.

Airick10 is town. Congratulations, you win the right to be ignored and not cooperated with.

[podoboq]

If a player is damaging to town, you should lynch them.

VOTE: podoboq

I can't stand for that mandatory fakeclaiming is scum on principle bullshit, by the way.

Then lynch me on principle.

Do it. At this point, it should honestly be me or Titus.

[podoboq]

Certainly wasn't to survive. Policy is to lynch all mason claims @ lylo plus 1 day if not nked.

Good to know. Next time I'm scum in a group of three or more, we'll all just claim masons, and win the game. Easy. You claimed to survive

longer

, which is totally worth it, especially if you have a valuable night action, and if you're killing the smart players who know to lynch you.

That would be lynch at 9* alive.

Which gives three days to throw any wrench in the works, and guaranteed mislynches until then. Seems pretty easy.

[podoboq]

The reason we can't move forward is because players like podoboq and varsoon don't want to talk about anything but the mason claims and won't pick a real lynch target/play the game

"podoboq and varsoon are being antitown, and we can't move forward because of it"
TITUS IS ANTITOWN AND WE CAN'T MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE OF IT

If you have a problem with it, deal with the source of the problem.

[podoboq]

I'm ready to work together, we just need to stop talking about Titus completely

"I'm ready to work together, we just need to stop talking about scum completely"

[podoboq]

I think he's just going to troll though.

Fun fact: trolling and advocating for the lynch of your scumread (and a generally terrible and obnoxious player) is the same thing!

[podoboq]

I honestly think that if we lynch Podo and he's town we have a better shot at winning this game.

I honestly think that if we lynch Titus and she's town we

STILL

have a better shot at winning this game.

[podoboq]

AGar voted her at one point, but has hopped off her wagon to join the counter wagon. SHE voted him as the 3rd vote on his wagon. If this is/was a distancing maneuver then expect Titus to hop off that wagon as it grows bigger. If not, then she is not his scum buddy and she genuinely scum reads him.

VOTE: AGar
AGar has absolutely no excuse for his Vedith vote (seeing as how they have exactly the same position on the most polarizing series of events I've yet seen on this website), so I can legit see him being scum trying to distance himself.

In the sake of participating, since people have given up on lynching obvscum, I am 100% happy with an AGar lynch.

[podoboq]

Seriously podoboq - even if you think Titus is mafia you need to stop with this and focus on other players.

You need to post about:
-not titus
-not anything mason-related


There's more than 1 mafia in this game, and even if you really think it's Titus, you're a huge distraction for the town by doing this

"Stop talking about that really scummy thing that happened. I know that any active scum in the game are definitely involved in it, and lynching inside that black hole will absolutely clear things up, but it's not my goal to bring any clarity to the issue of who is and isn't scum, so could you please stop? It might cause people to stop ignoring the elephant in the room, and you're only allowed to distract from the game for half of the game if you claim mason."

[podoboq]

TITUS IS ANTITOWN AND WE CAN'T MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE OF IT

I think podoboq is town too which makes things super annoying

i'm familiar with 'retarded site meta'.
no ideas who came up with this brilliant fake mason claim strategy - it sucks

problem is that i have no way to discern if that's town or scum gambit.
they did stupid shit, they must be punished for that

and they have done nothing to convince me otherwise

my conversations with titus/dunnstral have been far from satisfying.
it just feels like speaking to scum. and now i'm being ignored (#2433) yet not pushed for lynch.
dunnstral can't argument why he scumreads me, titus just blabbering about being antagonizing and aggressive town

Adding Lapsa to the town circle. I had a light scumread on you. Good job turning that around with one post, man.

[podoboq]

Podoboq, if you suspect a player is Scum, and you're Town, you have every right to voice that opinion in-thread.

Don't allow anyone to try to silence you.

Oh don't worry. I won't.

(I'm aware that Wake could be scum buddying me, but I honestly don't care right now, because he's right)

[podoboq]

Podoboq, if you suspect a player is Scum, and you're Town, you have every right to voice that opinion in-thread.

Don't allow anyone to try to silence you.

There's nothing stopping him from berating me in every post and scumhunting. He just elects not to.

In fact, perhaps those two things are mutually inclusive.

[podoboq]

T

I

T

U

S

I

S

O

B

V

S

C

U

M

I just really had to steal the page top for page 100 with that

[podoboq]

T

I

T

U

S

I

S

O

B

V

S

C

U

M

I just really had to steal the page top for page 100 with that

damn it so hard

[podoboq]

Podo is way more agressive then the last game I played with him, he was town in that game but I've never seen him as scum so idk.

This is mostly true (I mellowed out a lot as the game went on), but I'd like to remind you how I reacted to dramonic in that game.

Context: (dramonic was mostly lurking for the first couple of days, but when he came in, he called me and two other players obvscum, never made a case, then just left. He never justified his reads on players. He ended up being town with the best reads at the end of the game, but people refused to work with him because he never worked with them.)

On Dramonic: Cakez says this is just how Dram plays. If that's just true, and Dram is town, fuck him anyway VOTE: Dramonic. He's contributing nothing. Call it policy, because it is. Dramonic doesn't deserve to survive into day two if he insists on being useless. If he's scum, we get no opportunities to read him. If he's town, he's the most expendable member of town.

I entirely expect him to come in with a oneliner about how I'm scum, and so are the other people voting for him.

Dram, if you're actually town, and you're seriously so dense that you assume we're all scum for disliking this play, then ISO people and start giving some logic that town can use.

I took the time to quote this because it shares a lot of things with how I'm thinking about Titus this game. However, while dram was a liability because he refused to explain his reads and seemed to refuse to reevaluate them, I consider Titus a liability because she's shown that she will play in a way that's destructive to town's group trust. Her play style is a detriment to town, because it sets a precedent that hurts our ability to cooperate with one another by its nature. Lying to town on as grand a scale as she did is like opening Pandora's Box, and she's called the other players stupid multiple times. She's dealt more damage to this game than she can ever repair, and I expect her to cause more. I also think she's scum, which explains why she's doing it in the first place.


That said, I'm still voting AGar right now, because I don't think people intend to cooperate with me on a Titus lynch, and AGar's vote on Vedith is scummy enough (in context) that he's worthy of a day one lynch as well.

[podoboq]

I don't understand the wagon on AGar.

I have other thoughts, that require Internet and my laptop, not my phone and also sobriety. But! The one scum game I have with Titus (that I haven't "conveniently" forgotten, contrary to how she'd like you to see it), she claimed a fucking ridiculously modified vig role to save solely herself, at the expense of handing over control of our scumkill to the fucking TOWN some nights, even though it could have literally confirmed two mafia at any given point. Lynch the "mason". More tomorrow after Bright House hooks up my shit.

Really, that game you're describing. You know what I did, I totally played little miss angel peacemaker while Wake and Sakura had pissy fights onto whether or not to leash or lynch the SK, riling them up while looking like an angel to avoid the conflict. That's what you conveniently left out of your posting.

Second, if you were actually paying attention that game, claiming a dayvig in no way gives town control over a nightkill.

Third, you'd have to be exceptionally dumb to seriously think I'd fakeclaim mason day 1 as scum.

First: You came into a slot with heat, with two partners who were content to bus and ride off that, and made an unnecessary claim that handicapped us. The elements of the town surrounding do nothing to change the fact that you acted strictly out of self-preservation instead of the benefit of the team.

Second: Really? Because we had to kill two people that the town decided for us, instead of actual strong players. You forget that fact so easily. You DIDN'T claim a dayvig, you claimed a night-vig with heavy restrictions. I will go remind you of what YOU fucking did since you want to forget that fact.

Third, no, I think YOU'RE exceptionally incompetent as scum.

I wouldn't fake claim, no worries






Zach don't respond to this

Hahahahahahahahaha HOLY FUCK.

VOTE: Wake for pushing Titus after the role claim.

Titus you're both experienced and have claimed a PR, from here whenever you vote I'm hitching myself to your wagon, unless I get better info myself.

This can't be this easy can it?

Lamist is "Look at me I'm so town."

See what I mean, imp. You don't know NAI yet you know LAMIST. There's something fishy about you . I'm not exactly sure what it is but I'm going to place you in my FoS pile.

Holy fuckballs STOP for FUCKS SAKE. NOT KNOWING ABBREVIATIONS DOESN'T MEAN A FUCKING THING FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST.

---

Summary: Performer should die. Between the "I don't want to interact with certain, unnamed people!" and legitimately voting a player for not knowing what NAI meant (I had no idea either), I'm fine with his death. Titus has done nothing to garner anything other than a "kill it with fire" read. Dunn's posting has been fairly mediocre, just makes me want to beat my head against a wall. Only loosely linked. Implosion is town. Wrong, but town. Shannon is scum. Wake is fine, but so help me god if we have a repeat of Gundam I will smite you so fucking hard. Boem is a scummy mcscummerson and deserves rope. Transcend is the weakest of scumreads. Guys I'm on fire right now.

Peregrine, plz don't do this to me bro. Come baaaaaaack. PSA: He does this in like every game regardless of alignment. A D1 wagon on a lurker is useless as shit, as well, so let's not be silly.

A Titus wagon would be smashing. Let's get that rolling again. Let's not forget that the claim was unprompted. Let's not forget that she isn't actually scumhunting and is instead just harping about "But look at how

towny

I am." or "YOU KNOW MY META" (I do, but meta is shit and so are you as scum!). Half-assed deflections of the accusations like "AGar recycled his points!" (Protip: I didn't, but if I did, fucking show me where and I'll show you the gallows). Literally just total 100% bullshit and awful posting.

If not that, let's lynch the fuck out of Shannon. Because that is also super-duper scum.

I mean me and Titus did, zach and varsoon was literally the most obvious fake mason ever

Well Titus is absolutely stupid there for claiming regardless of the reason.
Not sure how I feel on this, would Titus be so bold as scum here? However, I'm seeing it more as role hunting rather than saving.
Why would Titus put the chance in someone without knowing their role. And the only way she can know Dunn's role is either as Mason or scum (which she has confirm that she isn't Mason).

UNVOTE: Whoever I'm voting
VOTE: Titus

Fuck it. I haven't been impressed by Vedith and you fucks are going to let Titus off the hook.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

Seems to me that AGar should be supporting one of the two players other than him who also think that Titus is full of shit, but instead, he says "I haven't been impressed" and just votes there. It's scummy.

[podoboq]

Can someone tell me why AGar is scum?

Spoiler: my previous post on the matter

I don't understand the wagon on AGar.

I have other thoughts, that require Internet and my laptop, not my phone and also sobriety. But! The one scum game I have with Titus (that I haven't "conveniently" forgotten, contrary to how she'd like you to see it), she claimed a fucking ridiculously modified vig role to save solely herself, at the expense of handing over control of our scumkill to the fucking TOWN some nights, even though it could have literally confirmed two mafia at any given point. Lynch the "mason". More tomorrow after Bright House hooks up my shit.

Really, that game you're describing. You know what I did, I totally played little miss angel peacemaker while Wake and Sakura had pissy fights onto whether or not to leash or lynch the SK, riling them up while looking like an angel to avoid the conflict. That's what you conveniently left out of your posting.

Second, if you were actually paying attention that game, claiming a dayvig in no way gives town control over a nightkill.

Third, you'd have to be exceptionally dumb to seriously think I'd fakeclaim mason day 1 as scum.

First: You came into a slot with heat, with two partners who were content to bus and ride off that, and made an unnecessary claim that handicapped us. The elements of the town surrounding do nothing to change the fact that you acted strictly out of self-preservation instead of the benefit of the team.

Second: Really? Because we had to kill two people that the town decided for us, instead of actual strong players. You forget that fact so easily. You DIDN'T claim a dayvig, you claimed a night-vig with heavy restrictions. I will go remind you of what YOU fucking did since you want to forget that fact.

Third, no, I think YOU'RE exceptionally incompetent as scum.

I wouldn't fake claim, no worries






Zach don't respond to this

Hahahahahahahahaha HOLY FUCK.

VOTE: Wake for pushing Titus after the role claim.

Titus you're both experienced and have claimed a PR, from here whenever you vote I'm hitching myself to your wagon, unless I get better info myself.

This can't be this easy can it?

Lamist is "Look at me I'm so town."

See what I mean, imp. You don't know NAI yet you know LAMIST. There's something fishy about you . I'm not exactly sure what it is but I'm going to place you in my FoS pile.

Holy fuckballs STOP for FUCKS SAKE. NOT KNOWING ABBREVIATIONS DOESN'T MEAN A FUCKING THING FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST.

---

Summary: Performer should die. Between the "I don't want to interact with certain, unnamed people!" and legitimately voting a player for not knowing what NAI meant (I had no idea either), I'm fine with his death. Titus has done nothing to garner anything other than a "kill it with fire" read. Dunn's posting has been fairly mediocre, just makes me want to beat my head against a wall. Only loosely linked. Implosion is town. Wrong, but town. Shannon is scum. Wake is fine, but so help me god if we have a repeat of Gundam I will smite you so fucking hard. Boem is a scummy mcscummerson and deserves rope. Transcend is the weakest of scumreads. Guys I'm on fire right now.

Peregrine, plz don't do this to me bro. Come baaaaaaack. PSA: He does this in like every game regardless of alignment. A D1 wagon on a lurker is useless as shit, as well, so let's not be silly.

A Titus wagon would be smashing. Let's get that rolling again. Let's not forget that the claim was unprompted. Let's not forget that she isn't actually scumhunting and is instead just harping about "But look at how

towny

I am." or "YOU KNOW MY META" (I do, but meta is shit and so are you as scum!). Half-assed deflections of the accusations like "AGar recycled his points!" (Protip: I didn't, but if I did, fucking show me where and I'll show you the gallows). Literally just total 100% bullshit and awful posting.

If not that, let's lynch the fuck out of Shannon. Because that is also super-duper scum.

I mean me and Titus did, zach and varsoon was literally the most obvious fake mason ever

Well Titus is absolutely stupid there for claiming regardless of the reason.
Not sure how I feel on this, would Titus be so bold as scum here? However, I'm seeing it more as role hunting rather than saving.
Why would Titus put the chance in someone without knowing their role. And the only way she can know Dunn's role is either as Mason or scum (which she has confirm that she isn't Mason).

UNVOTE: Whoever I'm voting
VOTE: Titus

Fuck it. I haven't been impressed by Vedith and you fucks are going to let Titus off the hook.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

Seems to me that AGar should be supporting one of the two players other than him who also think that Titus is full of shit, but instead, he says "I haven't been impressed" and just votes there. It's scummy.

His vote on Vedith is inconsistent with his scumread on Titus.

[podoboq]

I don't see the vote switch as scummy, but the who he picked is kinda weird seeing as how he decided to blatantly sheep some other people (including Titus) instead of one of his secondary reads. Given how pissed off at the rest of the town he sounds I wouldn't have expected that.

I find everything before what you quoted pretty genuine.

I did as well. He was a townread until his absolutely mindless vote on Vedith. To be clear, Vedith isn't necessarily a townread of mine, but me voting there without any explanation would be obvscum.

[podoboq]

Also has my predecessor mentioned I am a miller?

I'm adding this to my claims spreadsheet, but I'm not happy about it.

[podoboq]

Well, at least now we have a buttload to work with day two. Good job, masons.

[podoboq]

vc ~

Titus (3):

Lapsa, Varsoon, Wake88

Vedith (10):

AGar, Performer, PeregrineV, Zachstralkita,

beeboy,

Titus, Transcend,

Boem_u_dusi,

shannon, Dunnstral

AGar (4):

Airick10, Almost50, podoboq, implosion

shannon (2):

Vedith, Mirhawk

Not Voting:

People worth insta lynching in purple.

[podoboq]

Also, there's obviously some number of scum OFF of the Vedith wagon, but there's no way that wagon is 100% town.

[podoboq]

@Wake you're not the mod though

For what it matters, I recounted. Obviously the mod has to come in first, but it looks pretty over to me.

[podoboq]

vc ~

Titus (3):

Lapsa, Varsoon, Wake88

Vedith (10):

AGar, Performer, PeregrineV, Zachstralkita,

beeboy,

Titus, Transcend,

Boem_u_dusi,

shannon, Dunnstral

AGar (4):

Airick10, Almost50, podoboq, implosion

shannon (2):

Vedith, Mirhawk

Not Voting:

People worth insta lynching in purple.

;-;

Maybe Transcend can get a pass
Would really prefer insta-killing Titus, Dunn, or shannon.

[podoboq]

How is Zachstralkita worth insta-lynching? You little fuck you think you and Performer can scum it up this game and no one will take notice? My crusade for you begins Day 2.

Unless I were to die.

Is this aimed at me?

Just in general, fuck everyone who fake-claimed mason. Honestly, I kind of understand yours and Varsoon's motivations for fake-claiming, but you're also still on a stupid wagon.

[podoboq]

The scumteam is in Performer/podoboq/Implosion/PeregrineV/shannon

Leaving this here for when the flips happen mad flipz bruv

That list doesn't include Titus, so there's no way it's even remotely close to correct.

[podoboq]

Why didn't we just rope implosion

Oh well

The same reason we didn't rope Titus. The scum wanted to lynch town.

[podoboq]

Why didn't we just rope implosion

Oh well

The same reason we didn't rope Titus. The scum wanted to lynch town.

Scratch that, Implosion was voting AGar, he's town.

[podoboq]

Podo you're honestly doing a lot of guilt tripping lol.

I'm angry. In reality, shannon is prob scum, Dunn is prob useless town, and Titus is probably ego-tripping town who doesn't care if she destroys town as long as she gets to pull CUHRAZY gambits.

[podoboq]

remember this when i die

You're implying that you're going to get night killed. Why would you get night killed when your reads are garbage?

I wanted to policy lynch Titus and Dunn, because if they're town, and we let them live, there's just no way we can win. Dunn literally just hammered the IC. I think I've spelled out that they don't actually have to be scum for them to be the correct lynch, because they've done more damage in this game as town than I've seen some scum manage to do in an entire game.

My real scumreads right now are AGar (for complete logical inconsistency) and shannon (for garbage vote hopping and garbage posting).

[podoboq]

Whatever, I have a cookout to go to. If by some miracle we've counted wrong, and Vedith is alive, fucking murder shannon or AGar.

[podoboq]

Consider this a policy lynch. I'm thinking 70% you flip scum here, but if you don't, at least we removed someone who's proven they will intentionally deceive the town.

[podoboq]

I'm thinking 70% you flip scum here,

A lot has happened in the last 800 posts.

[podoboq]

I'm going to be skimming for a bit. I got food poisoning last night, so I don't really feel up to a lot right now.

I was wrong about Vedith. I'm probably wrong about AGar. I might be wrong about Titus. I'm not wrong about Wake.

[podoboq]

Actually if Wake is town, your RVS increases your odds of being scum.

I assume you mean because I RVSed Wake at the beginning? How does that make me more likely scum if Wake is town?

[podoboq]

VOTE: Titus
I continue to trust Wake more than any other player in this game, and I think it's

adorable

infuriating how all the fake masons seem to be intentionally misunderstanding his read on the Nos interactions.

By the way, still feeling like shit somehow. Sorry for the inactivity.


PS: I could see Mirhawk as scum. He wasn't this lurky when I played with him as town in Musical Mafia.

[podoboq]

I'M WILLING TO MOVE

Nobody has a GOOD reason to get performer

Zach wants to get performer because he's replacing out is basically the core part of his case

VOTE: Performer

What even is this? Am I misunderstanding this, or is there some kind of joke in there, or is Dunnstral just an idiot?
"There's no real case on performer....... Vote: Performer"

[podoboq]

You're scum aren't you?

Ya got me! Everyone who understands the logic for how your slot is incredibly scummy must be scum.

Unless I missed something today, Wake is the only person who made an actual case on anybody, so unless someone produces something more damning on another slot, I'm gonna go ahead and stay here for now.

[podoboq]

@Podog, the "logic" is that I changed my mid and triggered a mad rush to lynch scum.

Why did you dodge my question? Answering which of mirhawk/performer is scummier doesn't require you to move your vote. You should be able to state reads on the slot even if "cases" haven't been made. It wasn't like there was a "case" on Vedith as well.

I didn't realize your question on mirhawk/performer was aimed at me. I honestly don't see performer scum yet, although I haven't been rereading his iso. Mirhawk hasn't done anything yet that I consider "scummy," but as I've said, he's more lurky this game than the one game I played with him as town.

[podoboq]

@podog, if you didn't think "Mirhawk v Performer" which is scummier was directed at you, why did you feel compelled to respond to a suggestion of changing your vote?

VOTE: Titus
I continue to trust Wake more than any other player in this game, and I think it's

adorable

infuriating how all the fake masons seem to be intentionally misunderstanding his read on the Nos interactions.

By the way, still feeling like shit somehow. Sorry for the inactivity.


PS: I could see Mirhawk as scum. He wasn't this lurky when I played with him as town in Musical Mafia.

You're scum aren't you?

Mirhawk v Performer, which is scummier?

"You're scum aren't you?" is obviously directed at me, and is clearly a contentless comment, so I didn't assume the rest of the post was directed at me. Plus, you haven't engaged me in any real dialog this game until today, so I wasn't going to assume that a question that I hadn't previously presented any opinion on was a question you wanted me to answer.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting "why dd you feel compelled to respond to a suggestion of changing your vote," by just assuming you're referring to the part of your comment I did respond to. How is "You're scum aren't you" = "a suggest of changing (my) vote"?


Also, why do people keep putting a g in my name?

[podoboq]

But ok, I get it. You're going to hard townread him for a scum gambit.

While, in contrast, I'm apparently hard scumreading you for a town gambit.

[podoboq]

Pododboq if you're Town and you want to live, follow me. I need you to come in here and be more active—at least with me—and share more of your thoughts on this game.

I'll be waiting for you to post.

Honesty time!

This game has taken a back seat to just about everything else I'm doing, because I am super demoralized having to play this game with the incredibly fun suck that is Titus's mason gambit. It's bad play, and the way she's treated other people I consider disrespectful, unsportsmanlike, and unsettling to the point that it made me want to replace out. Instead of doing that, I've decided to just read, refrain from posting often, and only jump in if I need to dodge a prod or if there's something that's legit worth discussing that I think nobody else is going to bring up.

There have been two RL days since day 2 started. Most of it has been nothing. I still don't see any case on Performer (WHY IS NOBODY ACTUALLY EXPLAINING THEIR SCUMREAD ON PERFORMER) or Mirhawk (WHY), so I'm just sitting back watching. Plus, my biggest problem in games like this has usually been talking too much. So I'm trying out being quiet. Especially since I was a huge townread of other players, I thought backing off and letting other people have the spotlight would be a good idea.

[podoboq]

Podo himself stated Titus was town but still the prime lynch choice yesterday after his statements blatantly indicated he believed Titus was scum prior. Of course, no one gave a fuck about this when I pointed it out.

I said at one point yesterday, "Titus is probably town." That's a frustration thing, like "Knowing all the garbage that's happened this game, there's probably three scum teams, and I'm the only town left."

I go back and forth between thinking Titus has 40% of flipping scum and 90%. I don't have greater than 40% odds on anybody else in the thread, so even when I think Titus is more likely to flip town, it's still usually the lynch I'm happiest with.

[podoboq]

@BOEM

I don't understand you Wake. To me town seems like it's doing pretty fine now and it's hard to see all in implosion/Mirhawk/Airick as town.
I simply don't see the need for shenanigans at this point. I'm town and I'm doing my best to solve this game (I think you are too) and this

If you're Town I need you join me

rubs me the wrong way. That towbloc stuff seems risky to me, it's too easy for scum to slip in there. Currently I'm thinking implosion is our best shot for finding scum so that's where my vote is at the moment.

I don't understand that

he thought I was in a Scum PT

about podoboq, where did that happen?

OK, I'm gonna go out a huge limb here. Please somebody with significantly more site experience than I look into this.

In Secret Alt Mafia 2, Joey Tribbiani scumslipped by accidentally linking to the Mafia PT. When people clicked the link, they got an error screen that says "You are not authorised to read this topic." This happened because he prepared his wall inside of the Mafia PT, and when he typed (post)74(/post), it linked to the thread he typed it in, not the main thread, where the post he intended to reference lied.

Now it's possible that I'm misunderstanding some of how that works, because I only vaguely know this story from TPP talking about it in Musical Mafia, but I'm seeing the same symptoms of it here. If I'm wrong here, and this is nothing, then sorry I brought it up, we can move on. But if I'm right, and this is the same thing, it's just straight up a scumslip. Like, a real one.

Wake posted a similarly broken url, which leads to a topic I don't have access to:

(561)

Here is the slip from Secret Alt Mafia 2. Scroll down to read the explanation of how it's a slip.


Again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding something and this is all nothing.

[podoboq]

Podo himself stated Titus was town but still the prime lynch choice yesterday after his statements blatantly indicated he believed Titus was scum prior. Of course, no one gave a fuck about this when I pointed it out.

I said at one point yesterday, "Titus is probably town." That's a frustration thing, like "Knowing all the garbage that's happened this game, there's probably three scum teams, and I'm the only town left."

I go back and forth between thinking Titus has 40% of flipping scum and 90%. I don't have greater than 40% odds on anybody else in the thread, so even when I think Titus is more likely to flip town, it's still usually the lynch I'm happiest with.

you didnt need to rebuttal that no one is going to touch you

I also did explain my scumread on Performer but that doesn't matter..

It's not a rebuttal. It's an explanation. I genuinely think you're town, and genuinely think you're just misunderstanding me, which is why I feel it's important to explain myself. That's the kind of mindset town is supposed to have, and the lack of that mindset is why this game has been an absolutely chore.

Please show me where you explain your scumread on Performer. It's possible I missed it. I don't understand why you think that doesn't matter.

[podoboq]

@podoboq What are your thoughts about Wake then? What was the conclusion about that "slip"?

The slip is confirmed to be nothing. The url is way too early to be the scum pt of this thread. He said he was using an old thread he still had access to.

To me, Wake is obvtown. He's one of the only players who still seems to give a shit about Titus's gambit, and I doubt that as scum, he'd continue to put up a losing fight on it.

[podoboq]

@podo

I would but the reason it doesn't matter is because I could show you a fucking unicorn making rainbow trails around a pot of gold and that lynch wouldn't happen

Just because the lynch seems unlike yo happen doesn't mean you should withhold your thoughts. I feel like I'm having a conversation with a child.

[podoboq]

@Wake

You're never getting my undying cooperation. I'm sorry, man, but there's always the chance that your scum, buddying me because I'm an easy target for it. I'm just saying I'm not gonna sheep you. You'll have to sell me on things just like anybody else.

That said, obviously I think you're town, and if we could build a town block (yo Varsoon, AGar, what's up?), maybe we'd be able to remove the players who refuse to cooperate from the game. And hey, maybe some of those players are scum, too.

[podoboq]

The way I'm looking at the game right now, I don't see how Titus and Dunnstral win this if they are playing together as scum. Let's assume they are mafia together. We already lynched one scum so they have one or two partners left in the game. If we don't lynch another scum in next day or two (three?), paranoia will creep in and they will crack under pressure.

I don't see why town needs to do shenanigans at this point, it's mafia who needs to pull off something in order to save this game. No need for all this.

Titus and Dunn (as a scum team) wouldn't get MORE paranoid if their teammates survived. I don't understand that idea. It would make them more confident. Sure, lynching scum yesterday puts a big nail in their coffin, but they can still win this game if they off the players intent on actually holding them accountable.

[podoboq]

You're better up stepping up to the plate and showing me that you care and that you want to find Scum just as much as I do. Let's work together, and make some changes

Let's start by lynching Titus, then. I don't care if Dunn and Zach refuse to participate in that. We only need, nine.

[podoboq]

However I'm still going to vote Performer.

He's been a wallflower this entire game in terms of gamesolving, no solid stances because all of his stances are so flexible that they can switch at any time for any reason. He does not commit to anything that he can't weasel out of. If you don't believe me, read his ISO.

That is all.

VOTE: Performer

Is this seriously it?

[podoboq]

Scum already were lynched (notice how Wake uses lost someone language). If we want to keep lynching scum, the smart play is to keep doing the same thing. Not attacking the town who got us there and plugging ears to anything else.

Honestly, I see this, and it's humbling, and part of the reason I just wanted to shut my mouth and wait for day 2. I believe that what happened was a fluke, but I have no way of proving it, and I could be wrong. Instead of standing around shouting "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!" I'm just gonna hold my "The end is nigh" sign and sit in a corner and wait for the inevitable.

If people want to have real discussion, and

explain

their reads, I'm here to listen and talk to.

[podoboq]

Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?

(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')

podoboq

~

Yes

/No

[podoboq]

Believing you are scum I obviously could not do this anyway

Wait, you actually think I'm scum? I thought you were just voting me for bullshit "why the hell not" reasons.

[podoboq]

OK, here's how it's done in FIFA, IOC and what not: Each and every one of us votes a player. Those who get less than 2 votes are dashed out and we all revote for one of the players remaining on the list. If nobody gets a majority the lest voted player is dashed out and the votes on him get to choose another lynch target .. until we do have a majority. How's that?

Does this seem even remotely plausible to you?

It requires EVERY PLAYER to cooperate, and name their favorite lynch target MULTIPLE times, without informing hat decision on other peoples' picks. This just doesn't work.

[podoboq]

There's been a marked change of tone for wake recently, by the way

I think the stupid votes on me riled him up.

[podoboq]

EVERYBODY is already voting multiple times within a few hours.

No, between two and four players are.

A large number of players are just lurking, including the person you're intending to target. I'll help you out here.

VOTE: PeregrineV

[podoboq]

He's pretty anti-town in general and annoying

actual lol

[podoboq]

DO WE REALLY HAVE TO WASTE MORE SPACE IN THIS THREAD

[podoboq]

Yes.
Unless they already did and I missed it?

I don't have a claim from Performer anywhere in my notes.

[podoboq]

The url is way too early to be the scum pt of this thread.

How did you arrive at this calculation?

Actually better yet, real confirmation that Wake is telling the truth:
Post numbers are sorted chronologically. Post 0 in this game is 8019556, but the post that Wake's link directs to is 671742, which has to be far before the mafia PT was created.

Sorry Wake. I'm gonna go be sad in a corner somewhere.

It appears that all posts on mafiascum share a universal numbering system. So post X+1 is the next post made chronologically after post X, regardless of what thread those two posts take place in. In other words, the original post in this game was the eight millionth post on mafiascum plus some change, while the quote that Wake accidentally links to isn't even as recent as the seven millionth, meaning it couldn't have been in the mafia PT to this game, as likely the mafia PT is also around the eight million mark.

[podoboq]

That's some cool trivia

If I'm right. I haven't researched it that much, but it's consistent so far among all the cases I've looked at.

It's definitely a tool I'll use in the future if I see a supposed slip like that again.

[podoboq]

I don't know why podoboq's name is so hard for people, it's symmetrical

<3

[podoboq]

@GuyInFreezer: I'll be V/LA from this Friday until the 24th, which is two Sundays away. I'll be visiting DC. I'll have time to check in and post at night, most likely.

[podoboq]

And maybe Wake is town, if he is working up his posts in a PT but not the scum PT. Unless they don't have daytalk.

I believe mod has confirmed that scum do have daytalk.

[podoboq]

Alternative is that mafia was ridiculous and bussed their PR just like that D1 and I'm not seeing how is that helping them win the game.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Mafia Neapolitan is basically useless. We have at least one macho and a miller. I can imagine bussing Mafia Neapolitan, because it's barely better than mafia goon.

More than that, I think there was scum on the wagon early, and they never expected the flash wagon to hammer it so fast.

Scum Neapolitan strong suggests single ball.

I agree with this. I think better evidence, though, is that there was only one kill last night, and we have someone claiming vig taking credit for it.

[podoboq]

Hey podo.
I am a dirty role fisher so can you post all the claims so far?

Let me know if I forgot anything, or misunderstood anything.

Almost50 claims jailkeeper, jailing Dunn n1
Dunn claims 1shot vig, shooting Lapsa n1
shannon claims VT
Titus claims VT
beeboy claims miller

Previous fake claims:
Dunn claimed modified mason with titus
Titus claimed mason with dunn
zach claimed mason with varsoon
varsoon claimed macho mason with zach

Lapsa was Macho Townie
Vedith was Mafia Neapolitan

[podoboq]

But... then....
A50 is probs scum

Or Dunn is making bullshit up. Or mafia also shot Lapsa. Or our mod thinks that Macho works like that (I doubt it, but hey).

A50 claimed after Dunn did, because A50 thought Dunn was lying.

[podoboq]

PeregrineV is saying words. Also, he has shown that, unlike some people, he gives a fuck about finding town in this mess of a game.

PeregrineV, just drop it. That's completely irrelevant. We need to focus on other things.

Fun fact, everyone. Looking for town is a bad thing.
VOTE: Boem_u_dusi

[podoboq]

Don't forget mine podoboq. You'll have to check my ISO for clues however.

I'm only writing down claims. If you crumbed something, I'm not including it in my claims spreadsheet.

Do you have a claim you'd like to remind me of?

[podoboq]

Could players clarify this for me please?

Four possibilities:
1) Dunnstral is lying
2) Almost50 is lying
3) Mafia also shot lapsa
4) Our mod thinks that macho townie dies if he's targeted, even if the person targeting him is roleblocked.

Most likely option, probably Dunnstral lying.

[podoboq]

5) Almost50 got roleblocked >_>

Didn't consider that one.
Good catch.

[podoboq]

5) Almost50 got roleblocked >_>

He doesn't get informed that his actions were roleblocker?

No, it's assumed on mafiascum that you aren't informed when you are roleblocked.

[podoboq]

For what it matters, I also believe Boem has been an unrepentant asshole to people this game. There's a certain level at which it stops being sportsmanlike, and becomes just inappropriate, and several players have crossed that line this game.

It's made this game a real fun one to continue playing, and makes me excited to contribute my own thoughts and reads!

[podoboq]

then make some reads dude

You seem to have misread my post. I'm being sarcastic about enjoying this game and contributing to it.

I have contributed reads. If you really want, I'll make a tiered readslist like a few others have done recently, but I entirely expect people to ignore it, as they've ignored all of my reads so far.

Boem and Titus are still my heaviest scumreads. I'm kinda null on Mirhawk, altogether. I've played with him before, and he's more absent in this game, but otherwise he seems to be playing essentially the same as last time, where we were town together.

[podoboq]

A little bit of go fuck yourselves shouldn't hurt anyone. If we're going to play the modkill game then Vedith should have been the prime contender....

I'm not saying we should be modkilling people for being unfairly dickish. I'm just saying that whenever Wake is transparent and open about his reads and opinions, people call him stupid and tell him to fuck off, even though his reads are justified and fair. It's either townies being unnecessarily cruel, or scum trying to make this game so unfun that players with good reads decide to leave.

[podoboq]

if i were mod this game i wouldn't have modkilled anywhere or even given a warning.

the game is supposed to be aggressive. heated conversation is to be expected.

I agree, but when it's continued, and it is clearly crossing someone's line, it may not be an actionable offense, but it's still tactless. If you're doing it to intentionally tilt them, then it may be good game strategy, but is it really worth it? This is just a game in the end.


Thanks to Boem for apologizing.


For reference, the actual site rule is this:
"Since Mafia is based largely on conflict and psychological manipulation, we are somewhat more tolerant of aggressive and heated posts in-game than in the rest of the forums.

However, game mods will often take action for excessively abusive behavior or slurs, up to and including a force-replacement or modkill.

In certain cases, posters with multiple or severe offenses may receive site-wide punishments from the list moderators, such as temporary or permanent bans from joining or playing games. Please refer to the most recent pages of the Ban/Restrictions Announcements thread for an idea of what behavior crosses the line."
I don't believe that this line has been crossed.

[podoboq]

In the sake of transparency, a reads list.

High town read: {Wake, shannon, Varsoon, PeregrineV}
Slight town read: {Zach, Airick, beeboy, AGar}
Mixed, wouldn't lynch: {Mirhawk, Almost50, kraska, implosion, Transcend}
Slight scum read: {Titus, Dunn, Boem}
High scum read:

fake claiming masons to earn towncred

I don't scumread anyone enough to push it too hard, and since it appears that nobody will ever lynch Titus or Dunn, it just feels like it's not worth talking in this game most of the time.

If anyone wants more justification for any of these, you can either ask or say "OMGUS, fuck you, your reads suck".

[podoboq]

well 4 non townreads and

two women

and dunnstral and the dude that was afk for all of d1 are voting this slot

i don't think this is a good lynch

What does that have to do with literally anything?

[podoboq]

you ran the playerlist through random.org podo

you could've at least used my list and moved some players around to make it look somewhat legit

Wake town slipped to me. I feel like the only way for Wake to plausibly be scum is if we were scum together, and we planned the townslip where he posted from another PT instead of the scum PT. Which is plausible from anyone else's point of view, but I'm town, which kind of precludes that as a possibility to me.

Shannon's claims seems stupid, but I believe it.

Varsoon's fake masonning to out Titus and Dunn is something I can get behind. I like his partner too, but I like Varsoon's interactions more.

Peregrine understands the Wake townslip as a townslip, and my scumread told him to shut up for talking about it.


Those are the high townreads.

[podoboq]

Podoboq, PeregrineV is your high town read? More town than, dunno, Zach? Seriously? Both Mirhawk and implosion are mixed?

Peregrine understands the Wake townslip as a townslip, and my scumread (you) told him to shut up for talking about it.

I've explained my Mirhawk read. He has been somewhat absent, but other than that, this looks like the towngame I just played with him.

Implosion has been semi-absent too, and I haven't taken the time to reread and form an opinion on him. Nothing he's done looks exclusively scummy to me, and I actually townread some of his early interactions.

[podoboq]

I mean I have 0 problems with agar's posting style but if u find boem's tone more problematic than agar's then no comment

AGar's the player I have the biggest problem with, actually. I'll be actively avoiding him when signing up for games in the future.

[podoboq]

Well, I'm not clearing neither of you for that

townslip

. Townslips I like are something like voting for mafia PR.

meh.

don't really believe peregrine as solid town for that, but i'm not scumreading you for that lol

pedit: right tho?

As I said, Wake is confirmed town to ME because of that slip, because I'm the one who caught it. Or it's just an incredibly elaborate ruse. Everyone else has more reason to suspect it, because they can't assume I'm town.

I also happen to like his reads, though, and townread him because scum continues to try to shut him up.


As far as voting for mafia PRs go, a) Neapolitan is hardly a PR. We have a number of negative utility on town that return non-vanilla, so it's possible Neapolitan is kind of a negative role if those weren't outed, because it could cause scum to target for lynch Millers and Machos over actual PRs. b) There were people voting there who could have been trying to distance, then the flash wagon happened out of nowhere. I can't give a lot of towncred to slots who were on the wagon early. Dunn gets points for lolhammering it, though.

[podoboq]

AGar isn't even that bad

Stop being a fucking pussy shit.

He's made the game less fun for me, what can I say. He hasn't even said a word about me or to me, and I already hate playing with him.

[podoboq]

I'm not an expert, but Neapolitan seems pretty important to me especially in closed setup. Actually, it's hard for me to think about more important PR. How do you know those claims were truthful anyway? VT can freely claim something here in order to soak a kill.

I'm saying that we definitely had a Macho, because Lapsa flipped Macho (which I was not expecting). We have a Miller claim which I believe. We have at least one other negative utility that I know about (not interested yet in explaining how I know of another negative utility. Just know it's 100% confirmed to me. Not setup spec)

Mafia Neapolitan receives results in the form of "Vanilla" and "not Vanilla." Non vanilla would draw their attention, and they would fire at those players first. With a lot of negative utilities to town, Neapolitan is increasing the chances of killing off our negative utility.

[podoboq]

i think him bashing people is hilarious

because this is a game and i don't take anything that anyone says to game to heart

and everyone else should as well

^It's funny when it feels lighthearted. A little humility and self deprecation, which AGar seems to lack, goes a long way toward that.

Who said anything about speed murdering him?

Me.

His playstyle is beyond abrasive, it's centered on division of the town and generally just not fun to play with.

In retrospect, the irony of this is funny to me.

[podoboq]

I don't know. I'm a competitive person, I like playing for my wincon in all games I play and I can't see why I would get rid of my teammate just like that. Especially PR teammate. And for what, some towncred which will vaporize D3 at best anyway?

I'm saying that early people on the wagon vote there to distance. That's a normal thing. It doesn't look like the wagon is going to happen, and they know they can unvote later if it becomes a risk, so placing a vote there is safe.

Then the wagon starts to pick up speed. If scum on the wagon is active (which they aren't necessarily), they know to move off, but they have to find the right time, or they risk making both themselves and Vedith suspicious at the same time. Then the flash wagon happens, 6 votes happen in an hour (or however fast that was), and they don't have any option.

[podoboq]

I don't know. I'm a competitive person, I like playing for my wincon in all games I play and I can't see why I would get rid of my teammate just like that. Especially PR teammate. And for what, some towncred which will vaporize D3 at best anyway?

I'm saying that early people on the wagon vote there to distance. That's a normal thing. It doesn't look like the wagon is going to happen, and they know they can unvote later if it becomes a risk, so placing a vote there is safe.

Then the wagon starts to pick up speed. If scum on the wagon is active (which they aren't necessarily), they know to move off, but they have to find the right time, or they risk making both themselves and Vedith suspicious at the same time. Then the flash wagon happens, 6 votes happen in an hour (or however fast that was), and they don't have any option.

OK. That's

little

contradictory with your scumread on me and Dunnstral however. Considering we just showed up and hammered him.

I would expect Dunn to lol hammer bus mafia jailkeeper if he were scum. Your position on that wagon I honestly forgot. I'm not familiar with you as a player, so I don't know if you're the kind of person to bus, but that does make me want to reevaluate. Will do it when I have more time, before I go V/LA Friday.

[podoboq]

I don't know, I've never randed scum in my life outside of one exception on another site quite recently. But yolo bussing D1 seems suboptimal and I like making optimal plays in all games I play.

Yolo bussing D1 is reasonable considering that a) Neapolitan is only slightly more valuable than Mafia Goon in this game, as far as I can tell from the setup, and b) Mafia might have been able to see the writing on the wall, what with Vedith being such an easy lynch.

I'm not familiar with your gameplay. I'm just saying that pick a person out of a bag and give them scum alignment and I can see them making that play. It's less likely, granted, but it's not unreasonable to me.

Also, while I'm not assuming this game is multiball, if it is, that gives a much easier explanation as to how scum can be on that wagon.

[podoboq]

I'm not an expert, but Neapolitan seems pretty important to me especially in closed setup. Actually, it's hard for me to think about more important PR. How do you know those claims were truthful anyway? VT can freely claim something here in order to soak a kill.

I'm saying that we definitely had a Macho, because Lapsa flipped Macho (which I was not expecting). We have a Miller claim which I believe. We have at least one other negative utility that I know about (not interested yet in explaining how I know of another negative utility. Just know it's 100% confirmed to me. Not setup spec)

Mafia Neapolitan receives results in the form of "Vanilla" and "not Vanilla." Non vanilla would draw their attention, and they would fire at those players first. With a lot of negative utilities to town, Neapolitan is increasing the chances of killing off our negative utility.

Is this aimed at me softclaiming information, or my analysis on Mafia Neapolitan's value to the scum team?

[podoboq]

I'm willing to drop it, OK? I have no idea what the setup is exactly so I'm probably talking about nothing.

If you're town, I doubt I know much more about the setup than you do. I like to speculate, based on claims and flips, and I think town has good reason to not care about a Neapolitan.

Also, not asking you to drop it. If you're town, this kind of conversation is good. We're communicating, discussing ideas, and understanding the game and eachother better by doing it.

[podoboq]

aimed at you softclaiming

I have my reasons. Consider it a super obvious crumb. You hard claimed Vig for basically no reason, so yeah.

[podoboq]

If you havin' role problems, I feel bad for you son
He's got 99 posts but a claim ain't one

Yeah I'm not sitting here waiting for this any longer

VOTE: Mirhawk

Is this another fucking hammer?

[podoboq]

OK, I gotta go, probably won't be around anymore until the flip.

Before I go, I need to point this out to everyone in case I'm nightkilled.

The following is only really important in the case that I am nightkilled:

Wake is basically conf town. That business with his slip earlier in the game, that's real. As scum, he wouldn't have been constructing his post in a PT other than the Mafia PT unless it was a super complicated gambit where he was trying to fake the slip. But someone had to catch it. He would have coordinated it with scum, so that his buddy catches it to confirm it as a townslip. But scum didn't catch it, I did.

You have no reason to assume that I'm town, yet, so you can't assume that I'm not scum fulfilling that gambit with him. This logic isn't complete for everyone else to see unless I flip. But if I do flip, if I'm nightkilled, that logic should be obvious. Wake townslipped to me. Wake cannot be scum unless I am also scum.

[podoboq]

Podoboq could also be setting up Wake with that crap if he ends up getting lynched.

...

I don't want to consider that possibility, but it is possible.

Mobile posting now, can't respond to a lot.

To clarify, it is logically implausible for wake to be scum unless I am also, but me flipping scum in no way points to wake being scum.


Boem, quit exposing townie gambits