Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Firebringer]

Why? And what are your reads since replacing in?

What do you think about end of the day?

I didn't really examine much mathblade. I checked immediately seeing the flip of wingback who they massively scumread and voted that person. Seems like a good direction for the day.

[qubixes]

What do you think 917 920 923 925 were all about?

If you're not compelled, then there must be a reason for this. I've already pointed out how the "honesty" of my questions can't be the reason, and you've affirmed that. So, I must ask, why aren't you compelled to answer my questions?

You were being a jerk (e.g "Have fun") yesterday. You threw some accusation my way, and you defended yourself. I don't think that is engaging me seriously, but maybe I should have said constructively. I was planning on ignoring you for a bit today, but I got curious how you would react to my behavior. I will get to your questions surrounding the Johnny lynch tonight when I have some more time, because I looks like others have some doubt about it too.

[Saru]

You were being a jerk (e.g "Have fun") yesterday. You threw some accusation my way, and you defended yourself. I don't think that is engaging me seriously, but maybe I should have said constructively. I was planning on ignoring you for a bit today, but I got curious how you would react to my behavior. I will get to your questions surrounding the Johnny lynch tonight when I have some more time, because I looks like others have some doubt about it too.

lol how is that "being a jerk." It was referring to you saying that you would look over my ISO. I'm sure it's fun to scum-hunt, no? If not, why play mafia? It's a game, stop getting emotional.

So me calling out things that I find suspicious and defending myself against accusations from others isn't being serious? You do understand that it's the whole purpose of this game, right? Serious question.

[karnos]

I investigated persivul. No result. Either I got roleblocked, or persivul got jailed.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade: I don't want to influence Mecha's answer by explaining my question. If he's not around today, I'll get to it tonight/tomorrow.

@Saru: I don't feel your questions are honest, so I don't feel compelled to answer them in an elaborate way. At least not right now.

....That....is......stupid. How would explaining your choice of words influence Mecha's answer?

[MathBlade]

Why? And what are your reads since replacing in?

What do you think about end of the day?

I didn't really examine much mathblade. I checked immediately seeing the flip of wingback who they massively scumread and voted that person. Seems like a good direction for the day.

What is up with replacements not reading/examining things. This is bad. This must stop.
A vote without reasons makes me suspect Dierfire might be being set up. You can post something resembling an argument right?

[MathBlade]

I investigated persivul. No result. Either I got roleblocked, or persivul got jailed.

You sure you aren't just full of shit? Did some reading overnight to try to find Neopolitan games and I found http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7751207

Do you want to make things easy and rescind your Neopolitan claim so you don't have to lie about no results anymore? Hell you even said this would happen before it did. This looks like a preplanned claim to get you out of what was decided by the thread.

@Mecha -- This. This is why you fucking lynch scummy players if their claim doesn't match what they are selling.

VOTE: karnos

If we, as a thread, continue to use traditional site meta I think scum will fuck with us.

[Firebringer]

What is up with replacements not reading/examining things. This is bad. This must stop.
A vote without reasons makes me suspect Dierfire might be being set up. You can post something resembling an argument right?

You could only suspect a setup if I am scum here Math....
Think for a minute. Why are people killed....
Seriously, doesn't take a genius to tell you that scum kill threats to them.

Also, I am in too many games to read everything I miss when I sub in. I can approach it three ways honestly. I can say I will read everything and then don't do it (I kind of did that already), I can not read it and just be proactive and interact with players to analyze them now (Which I do much better at I think), or replace out and someone else who likely won't read it or be active enough can take my place.

I like the players want more involvement, but seriously from my perspective its annoying to read hundreds of wall posts when I am in 10+ games.

[Firebringer]

I investigated persivul. No result. Either I got roleblocked, or persivul got jailed.

You sure you aren't just full of shit? Did some reading overnight to try to find Neopolitan games and I found http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7751207

Do you want to make things easy and rescind your Neopolitan claim so you don't have to lie about no results anymore? Hell you even said this would happen before it did. This looks like a preplanned claim to get you out of what was decided by the thread.

@Mecha -- This. This is why you fucking lynch scummy players if their claim doesn't match what they are selling.

VOTE: karnos

If we, as a thread, continue to use traditional site meta I think scum will fuck with us.

You realize there easily can be a mafia roleblocker right?

[qubixes]

@Mathblade: I don't want to influence Mecha's answer by explaining my question. If he's not around today, I'll get to it tonight/tomorrow.

@Saru: I don't feel your questions are honest, so I don't feel compelled to answer them in an elaborate way. At least not right now.

....That....is......stupid. How would explaining your choice of words influence Mecha's answer?

I formulated it the way he seemed to be thinking about it and not necessarily how I was thinking about it. That answers your question? I thought it'd be easier to explain after Mecha's answer.

[MathBlade]

What is up with replacements not reading/examining things. This is bad. This must stop.
A vote without reasons makes me suspect Dierfire might be being set up. You can post something resembling an argument right?

You could only suspect a setup if I am scum here Math....
Think for a minute. Why are people killed....
Seriously, doesn't take a genius to tell you that scum kill threats to them.

Also, I am in too many games to read everything I miss when I sub in. I can approach it three ways honestly. I can say I will read everything and then don't do it (I kind of did that already), I can not read it and just be proactive and interact with players to analyze them now (Which I do much better at I think), or replace out and someone else who likely won't read it or be active enough can take my place.

I like the players want more involvement, but seriously from my perspective its annoying to read hundreds of wall posts when I am in 10+ games.

I have been scum before. They do not always kill threats to them but they kill to potentially steer mislynches. To blanketly say scum kill threats to them without considering the fact scum kill to steer conversation or even a null kill if not suspected is bad.

Again is traditional site meta that scum only kill threats to them? Dear Lord :/ Why do you think this was scum killing a threat? And if you are right who would be scum with Dierfire?

[MathBlade]

I investigated persivul. No result. Either I got roleblocked, or persivul got jailed.

You sure you aren't just full of shit? Did some reading overnight to try to find Neopolitan games and I found http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7751207

Do you want to make things easy and rescind your Neopolitan claim so you don't have to lie about no results anymore? Hell you even said this would happen before it did. This looks like a preplanned claim to get you out of what was decided by the thread.

@Mecha -- This. This is why you fucking lynch scummy players if their claim doesn't match what they are selling.

VOTE: karnos

If we, as a thread, continue to use traditional site meta I think scum will fuck with us.

You realize there easily can be a mafia roleblocker right?

You realize if they did it would be stupid as the thread was split about announcing if a slot was a PR or not so it would have been utterly stupid for scum to roleblock Karnos. Then again I am assuming scum are intelligent. This also assumes scum have a roleblocker which there is no evidence of.

Why do people assume Karnos is telling the truth?

*finds wall...Bangs head against*

[Firebringer]

I have been scum before. They do not always kill threats to them but they kill to potentially steer mislynches. To blanketly say scum kill threats to them without considering the fact scum kill to steer conversation or even a null kill if not suspected is bad.

Again is traditional site meta that scum only kill threats to them? Dear Lord :/ Why do you think this was scum killing a threat? And if you are right who would be scum with Dierfire?

I have tried using kills to steer mislynches by "framing" people as scum. It doesn't work, id say the 4/4 times I have done it the town didn't really NK analyze so they didn't see who I was trying to frame and the threats remained and they lynched me.

So no, it might have been past meta but speaking as a perosn who has played over 100 games in the past year. Kills rarely happen to frame players. Its 80% of the time to kill a player perceived to be a pr or a threat.

[Firebringer]

You realize if they did it would be stupid as the thread was split about announcing if a slot was a PR or not so it would have been utterly stupid for scum to roleblock Karnos. Then again I am assuming scum are intelligent. This also assumes scum have a roleblocker which there is no evidence of.

Why do people assume Karnos is telling the truth?

*finds wall...Bangs head against*

I feel like we are speaking two different languages cause 90% of this post was moon logic.

[Firebringer]

Also my gut tells me qubixes is scum here.

So my two scum reads are dierfire and qubixes

[MathBlade]

I have been scum before. They do not always kill threats to them but they kill to potentially steer mislynches. To blanketly say scum kill threats to them without considering the fact scum kill to steer conversation or even a null kill if not suspected is bad.

Again is traditional site meta that scum only kill threats to them? Dear Lord :/ Why do you think this was scum killing a threat? And if you are right who would be scum with Dierfire?

I have tried using kills to steer mislynches by "framing" people as scum. It doesn't work, id say the 4/4 times I have done it the town didn't really NK analyze so they didn't see who I was trying to frame and the threats remained and they lynched me.

So no, it might have been past meta but speaking as a perosn who has played over 100 games in the past year. Kills rarely happen to frame players. Its 80% of the time to kill a player perceived to be a pr or a threat.

Well scum better be afraid because I do NK analysis. I do vote count analysis (differently than Titus). Did I not say Johnny was town? Did I not say that how that wagon formed by Masquerade and hammered by Masquerade was bad?

I don't care about your made up statistics. I care about what is happening now and I want Masquerade/Dierfire to react to this flip and that Karnos, shockingly (sarcasm), has no results. Once everyone has seen the flip that analysis can begin.

Pedit: Why? Why does your gut say that? What stands out to you from today if you aren't reading the fucking thread?

[Masquerade]

I think Qubixes is scum with Kappy. I'm having huge issues concentrating and having a really hard time explaining but just look at his iso in his first 400 posts. I can't remember what pinged me when I first read Qubixes' iso maybe it will come to me later, maybe not.

VOTE: Qubixes

Math: What do you want me to say about the flips? I didn't believe Johnny was scum when I hammered him and I had Wingback as a strong townread. They both flipped town which means my reads there were accurate. I agree with Fire that scum will likely kill pr-suspects or threats, not for framing. Why would scum kill Karnos' biggest defender? Because they really want Karnos mislynched. At least, that's my humble opinion.

[MathBlade]

You realize if they did it would be stupid as the thread was split about announcing if a slot was a PR or not so it would have been utterly stupid for scum to roleblock Karnos. Then again I am assuming scum are intelligent. This also assumes scum have a roleblocker which there is no evidence of.

Why do people assume Karnos is telling the truth?

*finds wall...Bangs head against*

I feel like we are speaking two different languages cause 90% of this post was moon logic.

If you would RTFT (read the fucking thread) it wouldn't be moon logic. Some players said they should only out VT results others said all of it. Either way if Karnos is town (which I really really doubt) followed the latter it doesn't implicate anyone and only helps scum to make their play more believable and give scum a proper target to kill if Karnos targets town. So I assume (maybe incorrectly) that scum have some intelligence :/

[MathBlade]

I think Qubixes is scum with Kappy. I'm having huge issues concentrating and having a really hard time explaining but just look at his iso in his first 400 posts. I can't remember what pinged me when I first read Qubixes' iso maybe it will come to me later, maybe not.

VOTE: Qubixes

Math: What do you want me to say about the flips? I didn't believe Johnny was scum when I hammered him and I had Wingback as a strong townread. They both flipped town which means my reads there were accurate. I agree with Fire that scum will likely kill pr-suspects or threats, not for framing. Why would scum kill Karnos' biggest defender? Because they really want Karnos mislynched. At least, that's my humble opinion.

...I have to go to work. I need a break from stupidity.
1) NEVER EVER vote your town reads....EVER.
2) There were two days left. If you actually believed Johnny was town you would have been happy people moved off his wagon and considered other sources.
3) That isn't agreeing with Fire. Fire said they kill threats. I suggested steer conversation which would imply Karnos is town. If Karnos was scum Wingback is not a threat.

I want the truth. What is up with players trying to give others what they want to hear instead of the truth? The only reason I am not voting you right now after that contradictory pile of bullshit is that I want Karnos to feel some goddamn pressure so people will see if he is telling the truth or not.

[MathBlade]

Hint: I don't think he is.

[qubixes]

@Masquerade: Congratulations on hammering someone you thought was town two days before the deadline then. Also, wingback was a threat to me and kappy? Really? Or you think Wingback looked like a PR?

(Ninja'd)

[Firebringer]

...I have to go to work. I need a break from stupidity.
1) NEVER EVER vote your town reads....EVER.
2) There were two days left. If you actually believed Johnny was town you would have been happy people moved off his wagon and considered other sources.
3) That isn't agreeing with Fire. Fire said they kill threats. I suggested steer conversation which would imply Karnos is town. If Karnos was scum Wingback is not a threat.

I want the truth. What is up with players trying to give others what they want to hear instead of the truth? The only reason I am not voting you right now after that contradictory pile of bullshit is that I want Karnos to feel some goddamn pressure so people will see if he is telling the truth or not.

1) Depends on how strong you town read someone.
2) It could be a compromise because some people are not extremely stubborn and willing to admit they could be wrong.
3) Masq said that they kill pr suspects and threats. Your last sentence doesn't make sense. Why do you keep using "steer conversation" IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE USE DIFFERENT WORDS CAUSE I DONT UNERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY

[Firebringer]

If you would RTFT (read the fucking thread) it wouldn't be moon logic. Some players said they should only out VT results others said all of it. Either way if Karnos is town (which I really really doubt) followed the latter it doesn't implicate anyone and only helps scum to make their play more believable and give scum a proper target to kill if Karnos targets town. So I assume (maybe incorrectly) that scum have some intelligence :/

What are you trying to even say? If Karnos does out town that confirms at least one town.
You not see the incentive to fricking block or are you too wrapped up in a "this must be scum".
Show me the actual scum motivation. Not this role nonsense which you are just running theory with me.

[Masquerade]

I investigated persivul. No result. Either I got roleblocked, or persivul got jailed.

Mathblade, if Karnos was scum he would have talked about his result with his buddies. There are more reasons for Karnos' action to fail, yet he can only come up with 2 of the most common roles that mess with investigation. If Karnos had talked to scumbuddies, I'm sure more option would have come up, like commuter or hider or roles like that. But he didn't mention them. It also makes a lot of sense to me that Karnos picked Persivul to investigate.
And that's why I still think Karnos is town.

Johnny wasn't a townread. I just didn't believe he was scum. If Johnny was an actual townread, I would have tried harder to stop the lynch. Ffs just read my goddamn posts from when I first voted him to where I finally hammered him.
I wanted a flip. I was selfish. I assumed we would have a frantic last hour where we had to hastily put a wagon together. I have meta but sadly it's an ongoing game so I can't explain rn. Hopefully soon.

I already said I think Wingback was killed because scum want Karnos misslynched.

[Masquerade]

Also, when I'm scum I kill the players I can't mislynch. Wingback would fall into that category for me.

Math, everyone plays this game differently. We can speculate why scum killed someone, but as long as we don't have a scumflip it's going to be REALLY hard to figure it out for sure.