I just have to point out how funny it is for you to accuse me of "sitting back" and how it's scummy, but then you admit to doing the same exact thing for the same exact reason.In post 1023, qubixes wrote:After I gave up my Karnos quest, I didn't really know what to do. And Saru (and you IIRC) was right that the thread was a bit of a pain to read. I tried to get some interaction with Magna (about Saru) to get more into the game.
In post 1024, qubixes wrote:@Saru:
Thanks for pointing out I have emotions, mr. Robot, really helpful.
No problem!
And jumping off Johnny's wagon is like the opposite of delayed. The Johnny wagon wasn't evaporating, so my hop off wasn't "delayed". If you want to find examples in my ISO, my hop off Karnos' wagon could be seen as delayed (though imo a bit too delayed), and my hop on Johnny's wagon was slightly late, but much less so than yours and Karnos's. Obviously, town is sometimes going to be delayed, and scum is sometimes going to be first. However, when it becomes a pattern, then yes, I think it is an indication. And I have seen it catch scum as well, so call it "nit-picking" or "weak as fuck", whatever.
I was talking about how delayed your jumping off was compared to the hammer. You jumped off like a page before it, for terrible reasons. And yes, your hop off the Karnos wagon was also really really delayed. Oh, hey, guess what, I'm seeing a pattern here! OMG! YOU'RE SCUM! LYNCH HIM! NOW! /sarcasm
@Masquerade: This was the reason I thought you had Johnny as town. Why would you say your reads are accurate when you had them as null+town? I mean I guess you were right on one flip. Why bother calling your reads accurate anyway? Does your opinion becomes more important because of it?In post 966, Masquerade wrote: Math: What do you want me to say about the flips? I didn't believe Johnny was scum when I hammered him and I had Wingback as a strong townread. They both flipped town which meansmy reads there were accurate. I agree with Fire that scum will likely kill pr-suspects or threats, not for framing. Why would scum kill Karnos' biggest defender? Because they really want Karnos mislynched. At least, that's my humble opinion.
Where did this come from? Because I said that out of the three (Karnos, Saru, you) I would be surprised if all of them flipped town? Out of the three I think you're the least likely to flip scum at the moment, so there's that. I'm just kind of wondering why it triggered you though, since I wasn't bringing it up to say Masq is so very scummy. I just wanted to explain why I thought it was (very) unlikely that Johnny would flip scum.In post 1008, Masquerade wrote:Qubixes, yes, my hammer was bad. It was selfish. I was afraid we were going to end up no-lynching and took matters into my own hands and hammered while I still had the chance. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sorry but it happened, we can't change it. So if you scumread me for it you go and push me and make a case on me. And if not then just stfu and accept that it happened.
So you're saying that at DLP there was a site meta, but scum did NOT adjust to that meta (i.e. they could have learned which claims matched which styles of scumminess and made those claims). Yet, here, you assume - against your prior experience - that scum DO adjust to site meta.In post 1014, MathBlade wrote:This is a prime example of why "because we always do it is bad". Scum adjust and learn to those tactics. For example I am willing to bet we are going to start seeing a major shift of doomed as fuck scum on the site claim some kind of investigative and role blocked because of "site meta". Where I came from on DLP you had the person claim to see if the claim matched the specific style of scumminess they were called out for. If it didn't you lynched them. If they were town and didn't live up to what town wanted too bad. And the scary thing is most of the time on DLP they were right.
As a claimed PR karnos could be doc protected, so scum are wary of targeting him for NK.In post 1019, MathBlade wrote:As I explained earlier if Karnos is town (which I doubt) scum have 0 reason to block him.
I checked your meta yesterday. I found one game in which you were scum and had a relatively low post count. But, I found another in which you were scum and had a high post count. Point being that you're correct, people shouldn't town read you for your high post count.In post 1022, MathBlade wrote:Writing a lot is not an indication of town else everyone would plainly see I am the towniest town to ever fucking town.
So if Karnos is scum, why are you still alive?In post 1016, MathBlade wrote:NK analysis is a very useful tool for finding scum and to brush it off like that is ridiculous and scummy.
1 Weak town, not strong town. Weak enough to hammer, not strong enough to defend. How is that not understandable?In post 1028, qubixes wrote:1 @Masquerade: This was the reason I thought you had Johnny as town. Why would you say your reads are accurate when you had them as null+town? I mean I guess you were right on one flip. Why bother calling your reads accurate anyway? Does your opinion becomes more important because of it?In post 966, Masquerade wrote: Math: What do you want me to say about the flips? I didn't believe Johnny was scum when I hammered him and I had Wingback as a strong townread. They both flipped town which meansmy reads there were accurate. I agree with Fire that scum will likely kill pr-suspects or threats, not for framing. Why would scum kill Karnos' biggest defender? Because they really want Karnos mislynched. At least, that's my humble opinion.
2 Where did this come from? Because I said that out of the three (Karnos, Saru, you) I would be surprised if all of them flipped town? Out of the three I think you're the least likely to flip scum at the moment, so there's that. I'm just kind of wondering why it triggered you though, since I wasn't bringing it up to say Masq is so very scummy. I just wanted to explain why I thought it was (very) unlikely that Johnny would flip scum.In post 1008, Masquerade wrote:Qubixes, yes, my hammer was bad. It was selfish. I was afraid we were going to end up no-lynching and took matters into my own hands and hammered while I still had the chance. And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sorry but it happened, we can't change it. So if you scumread me for it you go and push me and make a case on me. And if not then just stfu and accept that it happened.
3 What do you think about Saru?
I didn't say that? Sometimes I feel like interchanging Masquerade and Dierfire on my list, but I would be surprised ifSaru wrote:@qubixes If you think that Karnos, Masquerade, and myself are most likely to flip scum, what happened to Dierfire? Where does he stand for you right now?
In post 1036, qubixes wrote:@Saru:
How was I supposed to know that he would be hammered a page later? That's like the opposite of delayed?
lol what? When you unvoted him, he was at L-1 with Karnos giving the intent to hammer in the post right before your unvote post. How did you not think he would be hammered when someone gives the intent clearly? Seriously?
Also, if you want to compare the sitting back, I'm afraid you're going to come out worse than me unfortunately (kind of stupid to compare it to myself, but since that's what you're doing, I'll follow suit):
between 438 and 868, you're sitting back expect for when I tried to prod Magna about his town read on you, and you defended yourself. I would argue that I tried to do a whole lot more in that period. (Just dual-ISO us.) Do you really want me to make lists here?
You seem to totally miss the point of me comparing myself to you when it comes to "sitting back." It's to show that "sitting back" is an extremely shitty argument to use in this scenario. Both town and scum sit back for different reasons. You're obviously town, right? So if I admitted to sitting back for the same reason(895) you did(because it was getting hard to read/understand the thread), then I should be town, no? Why does the length matter in this case? Stop being superficial and look at motivation.
I might do a comprehensible case on you at some point, but right now I don't feel like I'll be listened to anyway, so that would be kind of disappointing.
So if a case at this point wouldn't persuade anyone to vote me right now, why are you even bothering to vote me at this very moment? Couldn't your vote be better served elsewhere, where perhaps people might listen to you? I can only assume this vote is still part of that theatrical frustration you showed earlier in D1 towards me. I'm pretty sure you don't even think I'm scum at this point. It seems you're just pushing me because you're mad that I'm being a so-called "jerk." We know how much you love to conf-bias, as I've pointed out. So that makes sense.
In post 1035, Masquerade wrote: 1 Weak town, not strong town. Weak enough to hammer, not strong enough to defend. How is that not understandable?
2 Because you keep finding ways to remind people that I made a bad hammer, but you don't push me about it directly. That makes me think you are scum that wants my misslynch but is too much of a pussy to push for it himself.
3 Saru is probably town.
You said he wasn't a townread, except he is a weak townread apparently. How is that not confusing?In post 973, Masquerade wrote: Johnny wasn't a townread. I just didn't believe he was scum. [...]
I don't think that is particularly confusing. Though it isn't really what happened here, is it? Nobody accused you because of not defending Johnny. But we're getting back to the original point of hammering a weak town read, which you already explained and I expressed my opinion on.In post 1039, Masquerade wrote:The thing that seems to be the most confusing though is how I don't mean someone is a strong townread worthy of defense when being lynched, when I say I don't scumread them.
/sigh You're missing the point of the whole "delayed" thing. Doesn't seem like it's worth arguing that with you, as it seems my purpose of pointing that out has clearly gone over your head anyways.qubixes wrote:@Saru: I had already written up most of my post when I saw the intent to hammer. And I mean after my unvote, why would I be so sure that he would be lynched? He was then at L-1 without intent. I tried to prevent a lynch from happening. If you say I was too late in the realization that I should prevent it, you're right. That's not what I mean by being "delayed". What I mean by "delayed" is compared to what the rest of town is doing. The rest of town seemed to be heading in the direction of lynching Johnny, and I was not. Different direction => not "delayed".
I am putting my vote where I think we'll find scum. There is no reason for strategic votes at this point in time. And I'm pretty sure you're scum, not because I'm mad at your behavior. But I do think that behavior was part of your agenda.
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean with the line I bolded^In post 1041, qubixes wrote:I don't think that is particularly confusing.In post 1039, Masquerade wrote:The thing that seems to be the most confusing though is how I don't mean someone is a strong townread worthy of defense when being lynched, when I say I don't scumread them.Though it isn't really what happened here, is it?Nobody accused you because of not defending Johnny. But we're getting back to the original point of hammering a weak town read, which you already explained and I expressed my opinion on.
I get this right according to you?:In post 1044, Masquerade wrote:I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean with the line I bolded^In post 1041, qubixes wrote:I don't think that is particularly confusing.In post 1039, Masquerade wrote:The thing that seems to be the most confusing though is how I don't mean someone is a strong townread worthy of defense when being lynched, when I say I don't scumread them.Though it isn't really what happened here, is it?Nobody accused you because of not defending Johnny. But we're getting back to the original point of hammering a weak town read, which you already explained and I expressed my opinion on.
On the contrary. What I am saying is that at DLP analysis was more important than information. Scum did and would change meta constantly. Just there wasn't a "guideline" as to what was townie. You either were or weren't. I am saying on DLP you were forced to be townie regardless of your role claim.In post 1029, Persivul wrote:So you're saying that at DLP there was a site meta, but scum did NOT adjust to that meta (i.e. they could have learned which claims matched which styles of scumminess and made those claims). Yet, here, you assume - against your prior experience - that scum DO adjust to site meta.In post 1014, MathBlade wrote:This is a prime example of why "because we always do it is bad". Scum adjust and learn to those tactics. For example I am willing to bet we are going to start seeing a major shift of doomed as fuck scum on the site claim some kind of investigative and role blocked because of "site meta". Where I came from on DLP you had the person claim to see if the claim matched the specific style of scumminess they were called out for. If it didn't you lynched them. If they were town and didn't live up to what town wanted too bad. And the scary thing is most of the time on DLP they were right.
Omg standard scum play *cries* Just stawp.In post 1030, Persivul wrote:As a claimed PR karnos could be doc protected, so scum are wary of targeting him for NK.In post 1019, MathBlade wrote:As I explained earlier if Karnos is town (which I doubt) scum have 0 reason to block him.
If left to investigate, he can create potential conftowns.
So, yes, scum have reason to block him. It's standard scum play - block an investigative until you hit a protective with the NK. Site meta if you will.
BTW, what did your old site think of someone who tunneled another player for two days?
