Micro 615: The Walking Dead: Episode 5 (GAME OVER)

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VOTE: Something_Smart

hello hello

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is that a joke or a serious 3p claim?

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but you were already voting him

Ya but the first vote was super rvs. Him answering for me was legitimately scummy

Why is that, and

why did you not just say "vote is now serious"?

I don't like this question one bit

VOTE: Something_Smart
Vote is now serious

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@Guilty: what about it don't you like?

It's written as if you have a phrase ("vote is now serious") that you want him to say, and are pressuring him on the basis of not literally saying that phrase.

It's not a logical way to scumhunt, seems more like just finding something arbitrary to make a push on. Further, I don't see how shotty's response to that question is likely to help townies sort him. What were you looking for in his response?

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I was looking to see if he'd fumble (for instance by admitting he knew his vote was already there when he obviously didn't).

I know he's since said that he didn't know his vote was there, but why were you assuming it's obvious that he didn't? I've done the exact same thing before as town, just using a vote again for emphasis.

Finally, I'd like to know why you called it a "push".

If you are scum (and shotty town), and he answered your question awkwardly, you could use his response to justify a vote for him. I'm not saying that's necessarily what you were doing, but that's what I was thinking it could be when I said it "seems more like just finding something arbitrary to make a push on". It looked like a scummy question.

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I think S_S is town
UNVOTE:

This is a complete misrep of what happened. It was a perfectly fine question. Why are you making a bid deal ou of someone making a not so big deal out of something?

Where am I making a big deal in my posts? If you show me where I "made a big deal", I'll answer this.

Ok I'll rephrase that then. @Guilty what do you think about BBT's and mollie's comments regarding each other?

Mollie's comments I thought were pretty NAI. I liked BBT's 39 so I wasn't a fan of mollie's 41, but town!mollie and I have disagreed on reads before so I didn't see much there yet.

some scumreads

:

WhiteLight feels over-explainy, especially 87. I also think they're making way too much out of shotty's "intent" to hammer, I didn't read it as a serious intent for a lynch.

but javajoe is worse

Post 85 is a total scum slip in my opinion.

And from my experience with suz she has been right every time!

So...

VOTE: shotty

Why would you intend to hammer someone that you are not confident is scum? Especially with so much time left in the day.

I do not like that gambit that SS pulled though, and he is definitely my second scum read

.

This is both deflecting blame for his shotty vote onto WhiteLight slot, and then also setting up for a SS lynch if a shotty lynch goes through on D1.
VOTE: javajoe

^

This is L-1

(current voters are shotty, mollie, WhiteLight, me)

finally,

His play here seems not as logical

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k now I'm confused as to why shotty was aggressive with respect to the S_S wagon but then suddenly backs off on the javajoe wagon

like that's absurdly inconsistent

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Maverick if you think Mollie is town then why are you still voting her?

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I'm kinda getting a little bit of a townvibe from java now, he's not pretending to scumhunt and that makes me think he believes his claim can get him out of a lynch

VOTE: WhiteLight

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Guilty, what is it about WhiteLight you dislike so much? So far I have been reading their posts as pretty genuine. I see a huge difference between their ISO here and in this game, and 83 among others reminds me very much of the beeboy from this game (particularly this post), where he was super obvtown.

"dislike so much"? Are you framing my posts?

I don't feel like WhiteLight has scumhunted nor advanced the game, and I think their push on shotty is jumping at low hanging fruit. 87 feels embellished and like they're over justifying their vote - "scum that cannot afford to lose a mislynch" only 80 posts into the game? And then I didn't care for 92 either, instead of defending what they said, they resort to "no u" as a response to shotty pushing a possible slip.

I also don't see the differences in the ISOs that you're talking about, though I only did an extremely cursory skim. Can you be more specific? And why are you townreading 83? There's no content there, it's just fluff. Why do you think that post cannot come from scum?

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My read on GL is sinking.199 reminds me of the nitpicky stuff he used as scum in College Mafia.

What's nitpicky about it exactly? Do you disagree with what I said?

I have experience with him as town and I read him correctly (pretty old though).

Also I'm pretty sure we've never been town together (in Molla's Grand Idea Mafia Mini you were scum), so what experience were you referring to here?

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Things like "feels embellished and like they're over justifying their vote" feel really nitpicky to me. And I do disagree, I'm leaning town on them.
GIM was multiball so reads were mostly legit there.

So Cakez, you agree with this?

Shotty scum reading SS feels like scum that cannot afford to lose a mislynch

Because to me that looks like a really contrived narrative, and I'm pretty shocked so many people are TRing WhiteLight for it

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Caught up since my last posts, not much has changed for me. Maverick went from null to scumlean for 321. Waffley and he's pushing on S_S for the meta argument, yet somehow not seeming to care about sorting S_S's alignment. I'm not even particularly sure what the goal of that post was as he complains that java claimed but then also is suggesting that S_S should be voting java instead of WL.

Still think WL is the best lynch for today, their push on java on the basis of his claim is terrible. And

We are being scum read for not playing to your guys expectations that is not meta that is just stupid.

~Bee

is 100% a "scum feeling caught for dumb reasons" post.

Also, having just played a game as scum where I spent weeks bullshitting a push on town!Cakez in LYLO, this looks very similar to his town game again.

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I'd like BBT to get in here and move his vote and for the nonvoters to vote. It helps me a lot more to have wagons build and fall to see where people go.

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I still prefer WL lynch to java lynch

also Cakez I think you're just salty about college mafia, your scumread towards me is somewhat ridiculous. I'm the only one with a Mav scumread and I'll take the credit when he flips scum please and thank you

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also I literally started the WL wagon so how am I "jumping on"?

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Their frustration at being wagoned did not feel town to me, especially when contrasted with java's play. If we're lynching between the two claims I think WL is scummier.

I think Cakez is town but I think his reads are bad. What do you mean 'well poisoning'? I'm not saying he's scummy for misreading me so I don't know where you're getting that from.

Yes I'm bussing mav Why would a scum!GL call out a vocal scumread on a buddy that's receiving no negative attention whatsoever?

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shotty looks like VI to me. I don't like the vast majority of what he says but he doesn't vibe like he's trying to fake consistency or pass off as looking town. I also didn't like the WL push on him so that gave him some town points

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also I thought 251 was particularly town

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I really only didn't like that L-1 vote on shotty, ever since then I think java has looked town. Like I said, I think scum fakeclaiming would have tried harder to appear useful, and I also think scum!java would be fighting hard for a mislynch on the cop if WL were town 2-shot cop and java were scum.

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one wagon has the vast majority of support

the other has just me pushing it

HMMMM I WONDER WHICH ONE IS THE ONE THAT SCUM WANT

410 is cute. S_S this game will be a learning experience for you half of your reads are entirely predicated on java being scum, and you assume that people who

defend

java are more likely to be his partner.

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@Smart - BBT, me. "His read on java is questionable"? I guess technically the BBT read is assuming it's TvS rather than java being scum

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Regardless my point stands that you have a very fixed way of looking at the game right now and I strongly disagree with it

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Lol at Cakez calling Mav an easy scumread and then scumreading java.

Java is town, WL is scum. Java not trying to scumhunt at L-1 before claiming IS towny, S_S. Again, you're tunneled into your own java read. Scum!java would have

every incentive

to fake scumhunt,

especially

if he thought he was gonna be CC'd on an investigative claim.

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Because WL was the counterwagon and so with a CC they can get the investigative lynched for free

Plus they claimed 2 shot cop so theoretically their claim will still have utility if java flips town. I don't think it'd be as easy as you think it is to lynch WL D2 if java flips town.

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@shotty - nah

plus dueling 1v1 wagons is the best way to get reads, distracting it with votes dispersing elsewhere serves no benefit at this juncture

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BBT what's your read on WL

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how the fuck am I hopping around? I've advocated your lynch basically the whole game. Further, "no one thinks it's odd"? Do shotty, Cakes, and S_S - all of whom have questioned my stances or scumread me - count as no one?

Seriously guys listen to me WL is scum

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Also mav. If you're accusing shotty of buddying then that means you think java is town? Unless you're using the term incorrectly? Explain your point in 493

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What's my conclusion, S_S

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Also mav. If you're accusing shotty of buddying then that means you think java is town? Unless you're using the term incorrectly? Explain your point in 493

Someone's eager to jump to conclusions regarding my opinion. I happen to to scumread shotty to an extent. Lesser than Java, but it just looks to me like 'oh, that's the play we're going with' and I'm surprised more people aren't alarmed by it.

Way to parrot what S_S said, which still never made any sense to begin with.

Do you understand what buddying is? Buddying refers to when scum sucks up to a town player to make the town player feel like their opinion is right and that scum is also town.

Therefore, shotty can only be buddying if java is town. Scum can't buddy scum, that's not a valid use of the phrase.

So it's completely inconsistent to have your vote on someone and then also say another player is buddying them. Java and shotty may both be scum, but in that case whatever shotty was doing wasn't buddying. If you're saying shotty is buddying, then your vote should absolutely not be on java.

Your defensive reaction to my question was bad, and I still don't understand your position. So do you think shotty and java are scumbuddies?

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You all seem very pre-occupied with a piece of terminology without understanding the intent behind it. Shotty has quickly gone from wanting to lynch Java to suddenly agreeing with him and hopping on the counter-counter-wagon on me. This looks to me like a scumteam that's realised that the bus is too obvious and that a Java lynch would significantly hurt them. All of a sudden in comes lurkbait Maverick, I use a piece of terminology (which to be honest, doesn't carry alignment-indicative bias, it's an action) which they can jump on.

First off, the terminology is important because saying shotty is "buddying" java does not mean anything close to what you just said in this paragraph here. That's WHY I asked you to explain your point in 493, because your actions were not reflected in your words.

Next, let's tackle the logic now that you've actually elaborated. I really doubt scum!shotty would be partners with java here. You think shotty didn't know beforehand that bussing your partner in a micro significantly hurts the scumteam? He just happened to realize this once java hit L-1? And you think he'd suddenly do a very visible 180 and draw attention to himself just to try to save a doomed partner, because otherwise his bussing position was "too obvious"?

Doesn't seem like cohesive analysis to me.

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Sorry, I'll try to dial back my tone a bit if you feel personally attacked.

however, scum must be shown no mercy or sympathy for any manipulative evil pseudologic that they may try to bring forth in this town, and I will not cease in my efforts to expose them

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Mav what is your read on BBT

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Sigh

Some final reads from java would be nice

Everyone should take stock of how much scum hunting WL has done since their claim.

Also yes Mav I think you may be scum. This weekend I'll read that game that Mollie mentioned. If I'm wrong about you I'd look at BBT.

Smart I discredit you because I think your efforts at scumhunting aren't right, especially if they're concluding with a scumread on me. You are looking for scum that don't fit your preconceived notions of town play, instead of looking for town that don't fit your preconceived notions of scum play. If you did the latter you might start seeing things from my perspective.

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But what reads of yours have I discredited other than java scum, GL scum, and WL town? Why would I let a townread push someone I don't think is scum, or call out someone I KNOW isn't scum?

also funny that you missed my point completely. What was the case against java again? Why did mollie vote him? Did my point about WL look like a push to you, with two days until deadline when the lynch is already abundantly clear? I had reasons for saying that, which I don't think you've fully considered.

Also why did you say "

trying

to townread Java"? Was that word choice intentional, and if so, why?

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And yet everyone else is saying it's scummy that javajoe didn't scumhunt

I wasn't trying to push WL, trying to see how mollie/BBT/mav reacted to that. I basically said as much yesterday

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also WL was never going to be the lynch after they counterclaimed javajoe with a much more powerful version of their claim, so the context of "stopped scumhunting" is completely different

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whenever people push the "hard defending a buddy" argument, it's always scum trying to tie bullshit associations.

If I was partner with javajoe here I would not staunchly defend him when he's the obvious lynch. It's like you guys have no respect for good scumplay

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also S_S asking everyone about their thoughts on meek reeks. Especially asking javajoe

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EBWOP - me* instead of meek, phoneposting sorry

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scum setting up a mislynch. Is your read on java gonna change based on what he thinks my alignment is? If he does flip scum, you can WIFOM his answer to make me look scummy however you want

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I'm thinking GL for a buddy currently though

god sometimes it's like I'm just playing a different game than everyone else

I promise you I am not scumbuddies with java and even I were, there's no chance I'd ever play this way

ftr I agree java not giving any reads before lynch makes him more likely scum

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smart your fixation on me is really scummy at this point. First I'm scum with java, now I'm scum if java is town. Like what

I have seen you do very little in the past half week other than talk about how scummy I am while agreeing that java needs to be lynched. If java flips town then that last post is rotating for a second ML

Unfortunately it looks like I might be lynched if java flips scum here, and I can see why townies would think that despite the fact that I'm town, but I will absolutely not stand for suggesting that I should be lynched if java flips town.

You want to talk weakly justified town reads, let's talk your original town read on WL for posting meaningless fluff, and your subsequent scumread->townread again progression

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Well my vote today is obvious

VOTE: WhiteLight

Lynch me if you must, but my flip will confirm that I was exactly right d1.

SirCakez is a possible partner with how he jumped on without doubting WL at all, despite suggesting that cop/rolecop in a micro was possible yesterday.

Also like, seriously, cop and role cop AND Mollie claiming protective in a micro? WL investigated the one person pushing them? I think it should be kinda obvious that I'm town tbh

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Hi Mollie! I'm actually about to go to EDC tonight so I can't talk long, what's up

WL - because I correctly called you as scum, ofc. And there's literally no way that town has a BG/rolecop/cop in a game

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(Also interesting is that GL didn't claim.)

This is incredibly scummy.

Anyway, I claim

T-Dog, town tracker

. That's why I knew WL was scum fakeclaiming, because tracker/rolecop makes complete sense whereas cop/rolecop makes none. I tracked Mav yesterday and he went nowhere, so he's very likely town.

I believe in mollie's protective claim as well, given her play. I'm looking at WL-S_S scumteam, but wildcard SirCakez because even though he looks pretty town on the surface I find his inconsistency on WL's claim rather baffling.

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because there's a lot more useful information in me laying low. You can hunt for WL associatives and I wasn't likely to eat a NK. Why would I have claimed yesterday?

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lmao at the scum freaking out now that they know using me as a mislynch isn't going to work

WL - yes. I tried to wagon you and no one was buying it. It is entirely legit - my options were reveal myself and still possibly not get you lynched, to likely eat a NK, or let him get mislynched for guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow.

S_S - if you were town, you'd see why. I've left boatloads of useful information in letting this little skit play out, and now IMO it's pretty much a guaranteed town win as long as we lynch WL and then {S_S, SirCakez}.

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re:440, am I having an easy time lynching WL today?

My reason is to generate associative reads. Like, the fact that you don't see that just highlights that you're not town. Even if I got lynched before I claimed, it'd be pretty clear that a)WL was scum and b)whoever didn't doubt WL's push on me, or doubted it in a transparently fake way, was probably the partner.

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wow I didn't even get to make last reads?!?

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Anyway remember to lynch WL after my flip

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also sorry for kinda fading on this game this day phase, EDC was wild and I'm only just now basically recovered

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^still scum

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I can't just spit out reads on a whim, each one must be carefully considered and weighed against the entirety of the evidence at hand

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Spoiler: waiting on my flip like

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^didn't you say you had a guilty on me? Why are you posturing as if I could be town?

Spoiler: my reaction to that last WL post

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I'm still aliveeee

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gg town, very well played

Smart you should read my first couple posts in the maf thread Sorry I was condescending but that was 100% in persona

Radja after thinking about it I think the setup is pretty balanced, just very swingy. If things had gone differently in another universe where everything went well for us it would have been an easy scum win, unfortunately WL was on point with their investigations and we didn't sow a lot of discord in the town. I said in the dead/maf thread I knew this was a strong town and so we got rolled, I def could have played D2 better for sure.

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also my logic in the maf thread about WL not investigating me was super dumb because I wasn't thinking about how they had already outed themselves and so they might as well investigate scumread #1. I cringe when I read that post hahaha

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yeah shotty, we should have thought about that strategy before I claimed tracker hahah

I think I would've still been a LYLO lynch though, even if you did flip framer first

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consensus? I had you down as scum Mav