[GUIDE] Common Mistakes in Setup Making

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[GUIDE] Common Mistakes in Setup Making

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:15 am

Post by BBmolla »

This is meant to be a basic guide to stop you from making the mistakes people make time and time again when making their first setups.

For purposes of a "mafia setup" I will define mafia as an informed minority of two or more players vs. an uninformed majority. (with possibility for multiple informed minorities)

Spoiler: Not Mafia via no Informed Minority or Uninformed Majority
Emergency


9 Players

3 Police

3 Firemen

3 Paramedics

  • Players know who one other team mate is, in a circle. There is no night talk.
  • The team whose player was eliminated gets a night kill that night given to a team mate at random.

Issue:
While a game like this could be fun, it doesn't fit the definition of mafia. With all equal teams, there is no uninformed majority or informed minority, resulting in a game where an elimination is nearly impossible to achieve at some points.

Spoiler: Not Mafia via 1 scum
SK Deduction 6p


6 Players

1 Serial Killer

5 Townies

  • The first player who is eliminated selects a player. If that player is the SK, the SK loses. If that player is town, they are revealed as such and the game continues.

Issue:
Mafia is a game of finding mafia through lies and connections. Key word being connections. Being able to partner search is an integral part of the game and without any partners a large aspect of the game is removed (partner searching).

Spoiler: Jester/Cult
Other Fellas


9 Players

2 Mafia

1 Cult Leader

1 Jester

5 Townies

  • If Mafia is culted, they may no longer perform the nightkill.
  • If the Jester is nightkilled, he may vengekill someone.
  • If the Cult Leader is killed, the Jester, if alive, becomes the new Cult Leader.

Issue:
Coming from sites that focus on nightplay, many players love to include cults and jesters in their setups. The problem is that cults and jesters are very difficult to balance around and can not just be thrown in to "add chaos". Cults are an issue because factional conversion as power is exceedingly powerful without balances within the setup. Jesters are an issue because it punishes town for recognizing someone acting scummy, which is the point of mafia.

Spoiler: Mass Power Roles
Mass Power Roles


7 Players

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Rolecop

1 Town Cop
1 Town Doc
1 Town Roleblocker
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Watcher

  • Rolecop recieves full role name but not alignment.

Issue:
Coming from sites that focus on nightplay, many players love to include as many named roles as possible to create a game that is "more fun." This does not work at mafiascum for multiple reasons. First off, and most obviously, having too many named roles allows for the breaking strategy of Mass Claim. Players simply claim their roles day 1, forcing the mafia to fake claim a role. This increases the chance of a town victory ten fold by creating multiple confirmed town players and eventually confirmed scum. Second off, the more power roles you include the swingier the game becomes. Third off, Mafiascum as a site focuses on day play, and it's typical for open setups to sometimes only contain 2-3 power roles.

Spoiler: Cop/Doc Combo
Original Newbie Setup


7 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Cop
1 Town Doc
3 Vanilla Townies

Issue:
This setup is broken via Follow the Cop. Follow the Cop strategy is where the Cop claims day 1, allowing the Doctor to protect him every night and confirming him as town if the mafia do not counter claim. He will survive for as long as the Doctor does, ensuring at least 1 night of public reports and likely more.

Spoiler: Setups Based On One Role
The Super Coptor


9 Players

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Goon

1 Town Super Coptor
6 Vanilla Townies

  • At nights targets a player, protects and checks if they are mafia. If town, creates a private that allows the player to discuss with the Super Coptor. During the day can private message the mod to ensure only one of two players can be eliminated. Also can vig instead of Cop Doccing if he wants.

Issue:
This setup is far too based on one role to make it interesting/fun. If the role dies night 1, the whole possible mechanic of the setup is over with and it becomes an uphill battle. Implementing a mechanic into the setup instead of specifically one player is generally a good away to avoid "Super Roles."

Spoiler: Unfun Mechanics
The Game of Unfun


9 Players

1 Mafia Silencer
1 Mafia Bus Driver

1 Town Secret Death Miller
1 Voteless Townie
1 Town 50% Vigilante
1 Town 25% Vigs
2 Vanilla Townies

Suicidal Survivor

  • Silencer target can not talk or vote for the entire day.
  • Death Miller recieves a VT PM.

Issue:
Silencer, whether removin vote or just ability to talk, typically just ends up with a player not having fun. Death miller is not as fun as you'd think. Percentage roles can make a team lose just because of luck. All of these roles can work in certain setups, but in general be wary of them.

Spoiler: Doctrain
Doctrain Express


9 Players

2 Mafia Goons

2 Town Doctors
5 Vanilla Townies

Issue:
The Doctors can claim day 1, protecting each other and causing them to both become unkillable, making the game nearly impossible. Even if a Mafia Roleblocker is included, if the roleblocker dies they become bulletproof, creating an enormous swing within the setup. This is generally fixable by making the Docs macho.
Last edited by BBmolla on Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:50 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Post Post #2 (isolation #1) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:58 am

Post by BBmolla »

Lemme know other ones any of you guys can think of. I consistently see the mistakes I've listed over and over in the open setup discussion but I know there are more.
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Post Post #7 (isolation #2) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:38 pm

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yeah I'll edit it before bed to add those
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Post Post #8 (isolation #3) » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:03 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 5, MURDERCAT wrote:What about mistakes that don't involve balance issues? For example, including unfun mechanics or roles. And what about issues of swing? What's good swing and what's bad swing?
Thoughts on some unfun mechanics?
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Post Post #16 (isolation #4) » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:56 am

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If it fails it almost guarantees scum loss.
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Post Post #21 (isolation #5) » Wed May 13, 2020 10:09 am

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I think cults should be the sort of thing that is discouraged but people who understand that can break the ruie

I have yet to see a cult setup where the best strategy isn’t to just pray to get culted

Well that’s sort of a lie, the cult leader who literally took over the accounts it culted was balanced but that’s different
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Post Post #24 (isolation #6) » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:50 pm

Post by BBmolla »

on it
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Post Post #25 (isolation #7) » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:55 pm

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Lemme know if I missed any
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Post Post #27 (isolation #8) » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:50 pm

Post by BBmolla »

fixed
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