Mini Normal Stats Update

[Antihero]

finally

an md thread worth reading

[Antihero]

But this is the thing - many people seem to think this way. They think if a game was close or the town won, it must have been balanced. There isn't really a way to tell if a game was balanced or not based on the result.

i can only assume you meant to say "scum won" instead of "town won" because recently after a lot of town wins (and even a few scum wins) i seem to hear a lot about how townsided the setup was.

in general, it seems like towns won't rip mods who make awful scumsided setups a new asshole, but scumteams who feel like they were cheated are not shy about voicing their discontent.

[Antihero]

A tracker or rolecop isn't the kind of information role that can carry a town. (And the scum seriously do not need a roleblocker to counter a tracker/doctor combination, or a mafia doctor against a two-shot vig.)

but ppl THINK they do

because they remember the couple freak occurrences of a tracker getting multiple guilties (like organic chemistry) and they don't remember the million times it didn't do squat.

[Antihero]

(i've been accused of being too townsided in making setups

but, over 13 games, my town:scum win ratio in setups i designed is 6:7)

/bragbragbrag

[Antihero]

For example, excessive swing is less fun than an imbalance, often: if you make a setup where the scum can be effectively defeated by D2 and it actually happens, the scumteam will be very upset.

let 'em be upset

it's not the game designer's duty to protect scum from getting steamrolled when they're playing badly

[Antihero]

i strongly disagree with the whole premise that games should be balanced by how "fun" you think they're going to be. "fun" is REALLY subjective and varies from person to person.

[Antihero]

i may or may not be talking out my ass, but i bet if you did this study for themes, you'd find the same thing

[Antihero]

dont think i ever bothered calculating past 4 scum in a vanilla because break-even on 4 scum was something like 80+ town?

sounds like a good time

someone run that

[Antihero]

ETL's game was passed as unbalanced by the review group, it was a normality only review. Since then, N has removed that option, it was very rarely used. If it was used however, odds were decent the setup was odd in some way. I think nowadays we'd catch that one.

ETL...?

you mean TSQ's 4 faction thing?

[Antihero]

What are some examples of town sided normal games that have happened? My gut was that mini normal 1775 was town sided, and I remember complaints on mini normal 1782 (though I disagreed there). Any that stand out from those who know a lot on those things?

1775:
2 Mafia Goons
Mafia Encryptor

Town JOAT with 1 shot of each: Watcher, Commuter, Cop, BG
Town JK
Town Universal Backup
7 VT

no, not town sided

[Antihero]

ircher's game that you brought up: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65928

scum: odd night ninja, encryptor, even night jk

town: voyeur, follower, odd night jk, even night roleblocker, 6 vt

also not townsided

[Antihero]

The investigatives were neighbors; PAY ATTN!

doesn't matter

neighborhoods are power neutral

[Antihero]

I would think 2 cops 8 townies 3 goons was town sided.

i think you'd be wrong there