New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[hebichan]

hebichan replaces ilikebugs. Please welcome him. Deadline is two weeks from this post. It will be accurate in the next VC.

Her.
Also gonna read up and see whats up with this game.

[hebichan]

he hasn't talked much about the game.

Which is a...?

SCUMTELL

I think both KTS and Kuroi are town after reading their ISOs, they both have honest reads on the game and they seem pretty have been fairly active. I think it's kinda silly they're voting on eachother here, frankly.

DBG on the other hand has been posting barely any content. I'm not gonna be posting a long quote take thing mostp laers do, because that isn't my style. But so far, My reads can be summarized as such.

Town: KTS, Kuroi, Egg

Scum: DGB

That's about what I have that I want to share right now. I want to hear from the other replacement too.

[hebichan]

100 pages of wall texts is killer to try to read through honestly. You are all terrible people.

[hebichan]

no kuroi is scum but

would you vote firebringer w/ me?

I would honestly, I feel like he's whiteknighting Kuroi and it bothers me in his ISO. His snap vote on you seems a bit off too.

[hebichan]

VOTE: Firebringer

Let's see where this goes.

[hebichan]

See, I would have compromised on DrippingGoofball.

Honestly both of them seem less town than both of you, so its kind of a toss up for me.

[hebichan]

Me:
DBG
Firebringer
mayyybe performer, but less likely.

[hebichan]

he hasn't talked much about the game.

Which is a...?

SCUMTELL

I think both KTS and Kuroi are town after reading their ISOs, they both have honest reads on the game and they seem pretty have been fairly active. I think it's kinda silly they're voting on eachother here, frankly.

DBG on the other hand has been posting barely any content. I'm not gonna be posting a long quote take thing mostp laers do, because that isn't my style. But so far, My reads can be summarized as such.

Town: KTS, Kuroi, Egg

Scum: DGB

That's about what I have that I want to share right now. I want to hear from the other replacement too.

So wait, you read Kuroi as town, but then say I am White Knighting him.... I guess that checks out?

Why the hell are you reading KTS as town and DGB as scum? That doesn't make any lick of sense.
Egg I can probably agree on.

BTW, White Knighting is literally the stupidest term in mafia, pls avoid it in the future, it makes my blood boil.

Go ISO DGB and tell me how much substance he's posted all game. Please do, now go back and ISO KTS. There is a significant difference in post quality.

[hebichan]

Go ISO DGB and tell me how much substance he's posted all game. Please do, now go back and ISO KTS. There is a significant difference in post quality.

Explain what you mean by post quality, because my post quality is shit, yet I have a town role pm.

I don't see how you read DGB on "post quality" its very vague.

Considering I'm voting on you, I obviously don't believe you have a town role pm in the first place. WHaqt I mean by quality is that he barely gives any reasoning on his lynches, why don't you grill him this hard, all his reasons are at least as vague as mine.

[hebichan]

Go ISO DGB and tell me how much substance he's posted all game. Please do, now go back and ISO KTS. There is a significant difference in post quality.

Explain what you mean by post quality, because my post quality is shit, yet I have a town role pm.

I don't see how you read DGB on "post quality" its very vague.

Considering I'm voting on you, I obviously don't believe you have a town role pm in the first place. WHaqt I mean by quality is that he barely gives any reasoning on his lynches, why don't you grill him this hard, all his reasons are at least as vague as mine.

Okay? I never said you thought I had a town role pm.
I am not going to grill KTS cause I have played enough games with him to know he wont explain his thoughts, and you seemed much more likelier too.

I read their posts, and no explanations doesn't mean scum. KTS tone is more off to me than DGBs.

What do you mean by tone? Thats just as vague as what I said.

[hebichan]

What do you mean by tone? Thats just as vague as what I said.

His tone isn't same as his other games I have played with him.
Its vague because I can't completely explain it, and its mostly gut.

I don't have enough games to have any sense of these things, so for now I like my vote where it is.

[hebichan]

What do you mean by tone? Thats just as vague as what I said.

His tone isn't same as his other games I have played with him.
Its vague because I can't completely explain it, and its mostly gut.

I don't have enough games to have any sense of these things, so for now I like my vote where it is.

I don't think I ever said your vote was bad either.
Why do you assume so much?

Because you're questioning me like you think it is?

[hebichan]

Because you're questioning me like you think it is?

I was questioning your other reads. Not your read on me.

I'm reading DGB the same as you, and you admit your read on KTS is meta, so I'm not sure where this conversation is supposed to lead.

[hebichan]

Because you're questioning me like you think it is?

I was questioning your other reads. Not your read on me.

I'm reading DGB the same as you, and you admit your read on KTS is meta, so I'm not sure where this conversation is supposed to lead.

To a better tomorrow for all town kind.

Off topic: What is your avatar of?

Snivy, pokemon from generation five. It's a snake pokemon, hebi is snake in japanese. It was my highschool nickname.

[hebichan]

hebi's posting upon replace-in in d4, is a little odd to me. She claims to be new(er) to FM, yet she clearly ignored my accusation against her - the ignoring part makes me think she's got more experience than she lets on. Maybe I'm overthinking this.
---
My lynch list for today:
KAAG
Drip
KTS
and recently added Kuroi. First he had me as the only null, later he voted me on d4, listed me as his only scumread, later voted somebody else, posted another reads list that still has me as a scumread. His only reasoning was a scummy "you look like you're trying too hard as town." Lol. This from someone who was in a game with me already, as well as RC, Ranger, Heat, BROseidon

I'd like us to put anyone on this list to L-1, please quit dragging the day out .
VOTE: Kuroi
---
@SS thanks for notifying me, I'll get on that signature issue right now! I didn't think it would possibly violate anything but I see what you mean

I'm new to forum mafia, I've played social deception games in real life. But, I've only played like 4 games of forum mafia.

[hebichan]

I think both

KTS and Kuroi

are town after reading their ISOs, they both have honest reads on the game and they seem pretty have been fairly active. I think it's kinda silly they're voting on eachother here, frankly.

DBG

on the other hand has been posting barely any content. I'm not gonna be posting a long quote take thing mostp laers do, because that isn't my style. But so far, My reads can be summarized as such.

Town: KTS, Kuroi,

Egg

Scum: DGB

I wasn't going to respond to this but I changed my mind.

How did Egg end up in your town reads?

Overanalyzing every little thing just seems to be his gig and he is doing it this game.

[hebichan]

I was going to say I'm generally a shitposter but I iso'd myself and I was very impressed by the quality of my posting in this game, definitely above average, A for effort.

If that gets me lynched I'm going to have to adjust to more shitposting.

I like this post.

Aside: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS KUROI WAGON COMING FROM!

That's my question o.o It was pretty sudden.

[hebichan]

I was going to say I'm generally a shitposter but I iso'd myself and I was very impressed by the quality of my posting in this game, definitely above average, A for effort.

If that gets me lynched I'm going to have to adjust to more shitposting.

I like this post.

Aside: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS KUROI WAGON COMING FROM!

That's my question o.o It was pretty sudden.

I'm compromising because there seems to be no traction on Aristo. But Kuroi on D4 has been awful, especially his early push on Performer.

I can see it, but before that Kuroi seems to be pretty pristine. I think I'll wait a bit and see Kuroi's reactions before jumping on this particular wagon at the moment. I still like Firebringer more for it, especially the back an forth where he came out and admitted my vote on him wasn't a bad choice.

[hebichan]

I like KAAG's reads. (Though I have been liking Ari for scum less and less.)

I would be in favor of somebody stating intent. I feel like people are just repeating what they've already said, and I want to see Kuroi's claim.

If you like KAAG's reads, let's form a wagon on FB. My intent is to stay there for now.

We have four people who seem pretty good on voting that way. KTS, KAAG, You, Me.

[hebichan]

Not today. Four isn't enough for a wagon, and it's been hard enough to gain votes on Kuroi. But I would lynch Fire tomorrow, especially if Kuroi flips scum because of the way he defended him.

Do you still think KTS and Kuroi are both town? Because I would heavily disagree with that.

Okay, I'm willing to go on a Kuroi vote, if kuroi townflips we lynch KTS, if he scum flips we lynch Firebringer, seems like a reasonable compromise, considering KTS was saying lynching Kuroi would validate him.

VOTE: Kuroi

[hebichan]

Something Smart asked me if I thought both kuroi and KTS could both be town yesterday. With Kuroi flipping town, what is your opinion on that now SS?

I came in here and my first statement was I though kuroi and KTS were both town. Which seemed to be an unpopular opinion at the time.

[hebichan]

Something Smart asked me if I thought both kuroi and KTS could both be town yesterday. With Kuroi flipping town, what is your opinion on that now SS?

I came in here and my first statement was I though kuroi and KTS were both town. Which seemed to be an unpopular opinion at the time.

You hammered your town read.
Why?

I didn't think it was hammer when I did it. In fact it wasn't, go back and read the mistake on the mod's behalf.

Also at that point it looked like I couldn't gain traction on a vote for you, or convince the town not to vote on kuroi. Who was the weaker of my two town reads over KTS.

[hebichan]

Something Smart asked me if I thought both kuroi and KTS could both be town yesterday. With Kuroi flipping town, what is your opinion on that now SS?

I came in here and my first statement was I though kuroi and KTS were both town. Which seemed to be an unpopular opinion at the time.

Given that Kuroi/KTS was TvT, I don't love how you came in and immediately called it as such but by the end of the day you were ready to lynch Kuroi and lynch KTS if he flipped town. You never gave much reasoning to that switch and now you're once again emphasizing that you called that initially.

I really liked your predecessor though
UNVOTE:

I was drawing attention to it because you were the one who convinced me to switch in the first place.

[hebichan]

It's not so much a wagon as it is one person voting on me, as it happens.

[hebichan]

It's not so much a wagon as it is one person voting on me, as it happens.

Your buddy is worried though

I'm more worried by us mislynching yet another day tbh.

[hebichan]

It's not so much a wagon as it is one person voting on me, as it happens.

Your buddy is worried though

I'm more worried by us mislynching yet another day tbh.

What are your reads on us and why?
Do you ANY FM experience or are you brand new? Seriously.

I've played like two games before this one. One was a newbie game I replaced out of.

I'm reading something smart scum because of his interactions with me yesterday. You, I have no idea, DGB I want to say scum because of his lack of interaction, but it also sorta just seems like how he plays from what I've seen from him.

[hebichan]

Umm DGB is a she

oh oops sorry, the avatar throws me off.

[hebichan]

Hello everyone, I'm back. I see the thread exploded in my absence.

I still want Kuroi's head as his posts still show a scum mindset and scum logic. Also, I noticed a surprising similarity between 2401 and 1806, I wonder if that means anything...

KAAG is making me annoyingly paranoid in these pages with his awkwardness but I'm thinking it's just natural awkwardness as opposed to scum awkwardness (like Fragger had).

I've been hesitant to vote Yume for a few reasons: one, jam's ISO is pretty good and feels like newbtown (on the other hand, I have been burned by what I thought was newbtown at least once) and two, I think I know why Yume lurked out and it's not because she was scum (though I don't think it's right to go into it more). At this point I would like Kuroi and/or Fire dead. If Kuroi flips scum I will have serious problems with the way Fire defended him as well.

you tunneled hard on kuroi, but the first thing you did when day started was attack me for hammering (which I had counted and wasn't supposed to have happened) on your tunnel read. You refused to switch off kuroi when we had another wagon starting on the basis you didn't think we had enough to lynch firebringer. Even though you said multiple times here fire was probscum.

I incorrectly assumed because I was new my reads were worse than everyone elses here. Which I see was a huge mistake. I don't like your play yesterday at all.

[hebichan]

That's not an accurate representation of what happened. You asked me my thoughts on Kuroi/KTS, and I said I didn't like how you started off saying it was TvT and ended up convinced that it was TvS.

No, the tunneling on kuroi started way before I replaced in. Nice try though.

[hebichan]

No, I was talking about today. Pressuring you about the hammer wasn't the "first thing I did when day started" and it wasn't unprompted like you made it seem.

I feel like you're making two separate arguments here and you're confusing them together. There's my actions yesterday (my push on Kuroi, my unwillingness to switch to Fire) which you still haven't explained what you dislike about (I hope the argument's not just I was wrong and you were right), and then there's my actions today, telling you what I didn't like about you yesterday, as a response to your question directed specifically at me, which is a misrepresentation, as I explained.

I don't like that you would not switch to fire. I don't, I didn't like it yesterday either, but I conceded to you. We had the votes if you and KAAG pushed harder. It's more the fact you were not even willing to consider another wagon that had four people on it. I get you may be stubborn but still. It wasn't specifically you per say, I don't like that it didn't seem like any wagon had any particular traction. If you aren't scum, and I am not scum, the majority of the people who started the wagon in the first place were certainly scum and we should be looking at them at the very least.

Right now, you are questioning my reads, and contributing very little else. Purpose a new vote if you think my reads are bad, don't keep focusing the conversation on your accuser and getting defensive. No one else is talking besides you and I? You don't think that's odd at all? I will take back that you started this day focused on me, but still, there is very little else going on with you.

Why don't we talk about KTS who hasn't posted much of value since yesterday and purposed the fire wagon yesterday. Or maybe Performer who has actually posted some reads. Or the other 6 people who haven't said much of anything yet today.

[hebichan]

I'm trying to sort you because I've engaged a lot with you recently and your slot is relatively low-content.

I'm still sorting through my reads and it's frustrating because I want to townread half the players and the other half I'm getting conflicting signals on. You, Fire and Slandaar are the ones I want to call scum but am having trouble doing so.
(Also KTS is conftown, but if you want to talk about anyone else then I will. I haven't been inclined to share my thoughts because they're so inconclusive but I can focus on specific people if you want.)

I'll say the same thing I said yesterday. Vote Fire with me.

[hebichan]

K. My read on Rach has changed because of 2693. Her 2695 further supports my growing suspicion.

Still don't see where the scumread by Drip on hebi, came from. But I feel like Drip could be onto something though, so I'll do this and see what happens. VOTE: hebichan

Still waiting on the 2 replacements.

What will happen is scum will jump on the wagon and you'll flip more town from a scumread you admit you don't understand. How does this make any logical sense?

[hebichan]

@Fire Starting from Slandaar's 2697 into the next page with my case. Along with my posts from pgs 104-105 and , 1688 dead-man post and other posts about how ira scumread Frag & KAAG.

KAAG made a poor case against Drixx, Drixx voted KAAG because of it, and KAAG called it a "lame OMGUS" on d4.

This is a fair point, though. The interaction with me against fire also was a bit odd. Both him and SS seemed to have the same reaction. Honestly KAAG and SS scumming together makes a bunch of sense here.

VOTE: KAAG

[hebichan]

I am not liking fires recent vote

TBF, I don't like Fire at all. He's super fluffy. At the same time he's made a big song and dance (in the past) about his personal meta being effort=scum useless=town. Does he switch it up here to throw off his meta and avoid a trust tell? Maybe. This is p much why my RVS/policy lynch vote is going to sit on him until I want to kill something more.

I feel like I'm the last town left alive

Again, you being town completely blows my mind.

So why are you not voting that?

I'll elaborate: Drip, KAAG's post saying you were town based on your scum list you posted, is weird logic. It makes me uneasy, thinking he's protecting a possible scum buddy.

That or he's setting you up for some future mislynch.

Even if I was in another slot (and thus did not know I was town) I'd consider this pretty reachy and makes me a little uneasy about you.

Like its pretty common for players town read/scum read others based on their reads

Man, i like you a lot more than KAAG at this point. You're pretty much saying everything I was yesterday.

[hebichan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Fire Act dos.

I want to see where this leads a day later.

[hebichan]

There's so many slots I want to see dead, why wasn't I given a gun?

Because you are scum. If are willing to die so much, don't be so trigger happy. I'm not giving up n your slot just because you pretend to roll over.

[hebichan]

I am totally on board.

My slot is a VT.

As bad as that claim is, it's the truth.

[hebichan]

What made you decide to claim so soon?

Also, to clarify if it wasn't obvious: I believe Performer to be town.

I like Performer's idea and wanted to start off the claims. A sign of good will, and putting my money where my mouth is etc.

[hebichan]

Performer's idea was for Nero to start off.

How much of the game did you read upon replacing in?

Me or nero? Cause I read a decent amount, but not all of it. I isod most of the more active players at the time.

[hebichan]

Did you ISO your predecessor?

I did, I found myself not agreeing with him a lot.

[hebichan]

top three town

kts, performer, slandaar

top three scum

SS, Firebringer, KAAG slot

[hebichan]

While as a vanilla townie in a game that is almost all replacements and it not in lylo, I have no problem being lynched, I still would prefer a fire lynch here.

I feel like fire is just playing everyone with the roll over and die claim.

That is my thoughts.

The reason I like claiming here is because people claimed to have roles that proved them townies and explained there plays, I would love to narrow down my reads more precisely.

Also if the dominator train has enough support I will switch there.

[hebichan]

VOTE: dominator

normally I would jump on fire for that, but I get the sentiment.

[hebichan]

@hebi: why does you getting the sentiment make a difference? Is Fire still a scumread?

@DGB: why?

My fire read has little to do with me agreeing this game is kinda feeling a bit pointless at the moment.

I do still read him scum, but no one else wants to vote there, so I'm just gonna try to flip the inactive.

[hebichan]

Fuck, i have no clue anymore.

[hebichan]

I'm going with my previous statement of my strongest scum reads being on SS and fire.

Also why did the tracker not claim.

[hebichan]

I'm going with my previous statement of my strongest scum reads being on SS and fire.

Also why did the tracker not claim.

Well. I think we were all so generally frustrated , and that slot replaced in and immediately went to Lurkville.
This was a huge learning moment for me , so I would have to be more careful going forward in other games.
Hebi I don't like how you hammered so quickly though...serious question - how much experience do you have in FM?

I also thought Drip would turn out Vengeful Town based on the way her predecessor and her voted, as well as her disturbing brief posts.

Serious answer- not much.

I'm getting better but I still make some shit actions.

But no one wants to go on my fire wagon despite everyone saying the dislike fire, and its really annoying me.

[hebichan]

Also, DGB always posts like that in my experience.

[hebichan]

Man. Over 25 games hosted and /or played, and this flip was one of the most surprising that I've seen. Mixed with pk dying as our JOAT on night 1, we've had some very bad luck.
---
I am demanding mass claim this phase - no need for popcorn version this time. Everyone claim, and I want that to happen within the next 24 hours please. Hebi and KTS , no need to as you guys already did.

Considering our situation , I have an idea of what to do if everyone answers to the mass claim as well as a suggestion if everyone doesn't answer to mass claim.

Regardless, this is a very tricky situation and I need remaining town to have faith in me. I can't disclose all cards for fear that scum will take advantage of the extra knowledge, but I need town to have faith in me.

At thie point, I'll try anything.

[hebichan]

VOTE: fire

finally.

[hebichan]

Me:
DBG
Firebringer
mayyybe performer, but less likely.

Performer, also one of my top townreads. Interesting, right?

So where's your mention of GuyFawkes or Rach? Your predecessor mentioned them once as a townread for no real explicit reason. Weird.

As I said multiple times throughout, I don't like ILikeBugs reads in this game.

I don't know why my reads have been so good this game, they just have been. It's been making me frustrated.

[hebichan]

Something Smart asked me if I thought both kuroi and KTS could both be town yesterday. With Kuroi flipping town, what is your opinion on that now SS?

I came in here and my first statement was I though kuroi and KTS were both town. Which seemed to be an unpopular opinion at the time.

YET YOU WERE WILLING TO LYNCH BOTH, WERE YOU NOT???

@Fire Starting from Slandaar's 2697 into the next page with my case. Along with my posts from pgs 104-105 and , 1688 dead-man post and other posts about how ira scumread Frag & KAAG.

KAAG made a poor case against Drixx, Drixx voted KAAG because of it, and KAAG called it a "lame OMGUS" on d4.

This is a fair point, though. The interaction with me against fire also was a bit odd. Both him and SS seemed to have the same reaction. Honestly KAAG and SS scumming together makes a bunch of sense here.

VOTE: KAAG

KAAG and Hebi are also not the same alignment, so whoever replaced them is town since Hebi is scum. SS is confirmed town at this point in my eyes as they've been the towniest player so far, disregarding Performer.

top three town

kts, performer, slandaar

top three scum

SS, Firebringer, KAAG slot

All town, I'm presuming?

VOTE: dominator

normally I would jump on fire for that, but I get the sentiment.

THIS IS A MISLYNCH

So the Hebi slot has actually not voted any scum this game at all. Weird, right? Yeah, yeah...

Your right, I haven't despite pushing the same fucking wagon for two days with no one listening to me. I want to lynch fire, I have since I replaced in. No one wagons with me, I see a wagon form by more experience players, rinse, repeat.

[hebichan]

I can't deal with people who start wagons and then complain when I join them because I read the people on the wagon as town.

Because my reads are too good beforehand.

It's bullshit.

I'm town and you're just bad. But hey, start a wagon on another townie and get a third mislynch when fire is still a great target for a third day in a row, I will hammer myself, cause I'm tired of this game with literally no one listening to me.

[hebichan]

Yet each time you pushed your wagon, you inexplicably end up on a wagon that turns into a mislynch. Coincidence man? Also, hell, how the fuck do you know Fire is such scum, yet you haven't actually pushed the slot that hard. "Hey man, it's not like KTS didn't Kuroi," Easiest defense for pushing that mislynch, right?

I haven't pushed the slot hard? I've been yelling at people for two days now to wagon it.

Day four it was your initial wagon, I agreed, I joined, I asked others to join, they refused.

Day five, I voted again, everyone was like, no fire is a much worse lynch than dominator.

Like fuck, I am actually just tired of this BS, from a townie no less.

[hebichan]

Yeah, cool, play your AtE "I'm done with this game waaaaaaaa." Do I have to go get that image again? That defense is so old for scum and town. I wish people would just actually contribute instead of rolling over and saying, "Let me die!!1." Come on now, don't do that as any alignment pham.

Anyway, if your reads are so good, why don't you push them? Also, why are all of your reads that have been correct only been correct townreads? Isn't that too much of a koinkidink for town to be able to easily read all the town players, but they can't read scum? How is that not the scummiest thing you've ever heard?

You haven't pushed it hard enough l m a o. "Hey man, I'm willing to go on this wagon but I want Fire dead!" is you this entire game.

I don't know how you fucking can't do it cause its been obvious for me since I joined who the fuck was town. I have no idea what even constitutes a coincidence here.

I'm fucking new to the site, I thought my reads were bad, I don't know what the right way to push is. It might be scummy, IT MIGHT BE, but fucking give me a break, cause I am not scum, and all I am willing to take right now is a Firebringer lynch.

[hebichan]

Yeah, cool, play your AtE "I'm done with this game waaaaaaaa." Do I have to go get that image again? That defense is so old for scum and town. I wish people would just actually contribute instead of rolling over and saying, "Let me die!!1." Come on now, don't do that as any alignment pham.

Anyway, if your reads are so good, why don't you push them? Also, why are all of your reads that have been correct only been correct townreads? Isn't that too much of a koinkidink for town to be able to easily read all the town players, but they can't read scum? How is that not the scummiest thing you've ever heard?

You haven't pushed it hard enough l m a o. "Hey man, I'm willing to go on this wagon but I want Fire dead!" is you this entire game.

I'm also not saying let me die, I'm saying if I get close to lynched, I will lynch myself.

[hebichan]

Yeah, cool, play your AtE "I'm done with this game waaaaaaaa." Do I have to go get that image again? That defense is so old for scum and town. I wish people would just actually contribute instead of rolling over and saying, "Let me die!!1." Come on now, don't do that as any alignment pham.

Anyway, if your reads are so good, why don't you push them? Also, why are all of your reads that have been correct only been correct townreads? Isn't that too much of a koinkidink for town to be able to easily read all the town players, but they can't read scum? How is that not the scummiest thing you've ever heard?

You haven't pushed it hard enough l m a o. "Hey man, I'm willing to go on this wagon but I want Fire dead!" is you this entire game.

I don't know how you fucking can't do it cause its been obvious for me since I joined who the fuck was town. I have no idea what even constitutes a coincidence here.

I'm fucking new to the site, I thought my reads were bad, I don't know what the right way to push is. It might be scummy, IT MIGHT BE, but fucking give me a break, cause I am not scum, and all I am willing to take right now is a Firebringer lynch.

lol, you don't realize that scum coming into the game know who town is and they're clearly obvious town? That's basically your attitude right now.

You didn't push because you thought you were bad? You realize that's worse than actively pushing your reads, right?

Yeah, cool, play your AtE "I'm done with this game waaaaaaaa." Do I have to go get that image again? That defense is so old for scum and town. I wish people would just actually contribute instead of rolling over and saying, "Let me die!!1." Come on now, don't do that as any alignment pham.

Anyway, if your reads are so good, why don't you push them? Also, why are all of your reads that have been correct only been correct townreads? Isn't that too much of a koinkidink for town to be able to easily read all the town players, but they can't read scum? How is that not the scummiest thing you've ever heard?

You haven't pushed it hard enough l m a o. "Hey man, I'm willing to go on this wagon but I want Fire dead!" is you this entire game.

I'm also not saying let me die, I'm saying if I get close to lynched, I will lynch myself.

Same thing

Yeah, yeah. Whatever, There's nothing I can say here to convince anyone of anything, I misplayed early on. If people want to lynch me, they are going to.



All I can say here now is fire is scum, fire is scum, fire is scum.

And hope the repetition is something that can get in your head.

[hebichan]

hebi is doing more of that AtE shit and rolling over and dying and screaming their reads are correct and shit.

guyfawkes slot was p town, time to ISO rach

I don't really have anything left.

[hebichan]

Honestly, as long as KTS, Performer and I are alive, I don't care. Those are the three people I read super town, and obviously KTS is super confirmed and I would say I am town.

I don't mind being tracked tonight. I have nothing to hide.

[hebichan]

oh and Hebi too.

Why me? I'm still voting fire. Cause he's scum.

[hebichan]

You keep quick hammering people.

What do you think of the wagon on me?

The first one was a mistake, it wasn't even supposed to be a hammer for the last fucking time.

The second one, yeah I admit I quickhammered, but its not like he talked for his entire time being here.

[hebichan]

VOTE: nero cain

This is a good enough reason to leave the fire wagon.

[hebichan]

Heb Why did you abandon the Fire wagon? I think Nero is most likely town.

I just felt bad about his actions the past few days. Plus I don't want to be the hammer again, and I do feel like we at least need a claim from the slot.

[hebichan]

Would you then unvote Nero long enough for him to claim then? Not sure why Perf thinks he has claimed I have not seen it yet. I saw Slan claim then ask for Nero to claim.

Eh fine, I still think its a good slot to vote on though.

UNVOTE:

[hebichan]

Its pretty obvious what I am. I'm the town jail keeper. The Slandaar slot has been blocked two nights in a row with no second kill. So obviously I thought I had been blocking a kill. Weather he's the SK or the mafia..idk.

Like I said earlier, it should be obvious that this is a town wagon given that there is NO resistance like at all. Well SS and Rach are town reading me I guess so 2 out of 4? And that's ignoring the fact scum Hedi quickly hopped on me after avoiding the question of what she thought of my wagon.

Like Perfs claim of backup tracker, besides the fact that I don't believe it, and his claim of targeting Slandaar and seeing him go nowhere is not the CC type thing he thinks it it. Like roleblockers are not told what their action did. So for me to see that there is no kill like why would I not think he's been blocked?

@Perf why should I have not believed that I blocked a kill?

And the KTS stuff makes little sense to me as well.Like he's essentially voting me for not voting Hebi but why would I vote Hebi overr someone I had a quasi guilty on? His thing about it being mylo/lylo today and not willing to trust my claim is either a pretty big math fail or just unwilling to admit a mistake. I think he's kinda talking out of both sides of his mouth about Slandaar. Like he's town reading him BUT thinks he could be the SK. Like when I flip it'll mean that I'm not lying about my role or actions so there's gonna be alot of pressure on Slan tomorrow so this gives him the flexibility to switch to Slandaar the next day.

False positives are a thing so its not impossible that I have one on Slandaar. There's also a TON of scum motivation to want to get rid of a a blocking role. I think that if Slandaar is not scum then atlest one of KTS/Performer

HAVE

to be scum. Like Hebi is almost assurdly scum and Fire is a p good bet but even if they flip scum that's only 2 so a third has to be in KTS/Slandaar/Performer.

1. As far as I can tell most people think there are only 2 scum left
2. I am not scum
3. If I were scum I would just wait for the slandaar slot to hammer you cause by your own logic that slot should be a killing role, instead of jumping off.
4. you keep going back and forth on if you should vote me or slandaar.

[hebichan]

I knew SS was friggin scum...

wasnt scum trying to get slandaar killed, maybe hes bulletproof?

[hebichan]

the fact that Slan is no killing while my slot has been targeting is what made me believe he's scum.

I can confirm that I haven't been killing anyone during the night.

(Sorry been busy promise I will catch up tomorrow)

You are basing your idea that Slan is also BP because of what Nero who flipped SCUM said?

Nero who was trying to portray me as the SK

Heb I seriously doubt Slan is BP Unless you are trying to say the SK is BP and not II?
And that Slan is the SK? Is that what you are suggesting?

I just thought Slandaar was just an out of place suggestion with how that day went, that perhaps scum wanted to get towncred by lyching the SK and get rid of his competition at the same time.

[hebichan]

Did fire ever claim? I'm curious now.

[hebichan]

I'm gonna wait for his post, but since I've been trying to get him lynched for two days, it's pretty likely will vote that way.

[hebichan]

Well I'm not sure what I expected tbh.

[hebichan]

Should I hammer fire? I've wanted this all game but now that it's so close I'm not sure.

[hebichan]

VOTE: fire
We aren't in lilo and ive wanted the slot lynched forever ago.

[hebichan]

*facepalm* well I don't know. Both of you are stupid suspicious for various reasons.

[hebichan]

the wording there is bad, the mod meant backup BP, and tracker, Since we lynched the tracker (who was an utterly useless slot and it still totally boggles my mind with all those replacements not ONE single one of them actually DID anything ), Perf did get that ability. Had I been lynched earlier in the game, Perf would have also gotten my ability. Had Perf had full BP, he would not have died in the night.

Uggh either my read on you is off, or I am wrong about heb and he is the SK. Need to do some rereading.

Honestly I this claim makes sense...

I think mafia were trying to get slander after a failed kill on him, as I said yesterday. I'm tempted to vote on the slot.

Slanddar rather.

[hebichan]

Rach I'm pretty sure you're actually confirmed town here.

[hebichan]

ohhhh ok so basically we had two until the tracker was lynched then he took on tracker and lost his bpness? is that what you are saying NotMafia?
Because he did die last night, and if he were still bp like me, he should not have died.

Still not sure which one of you two is the sk though. I had town reads on both of you

definitely need to take a look at some of the lynch votes and see if I can find any patterns.

Of course that works better with mafia team members.

I ended up hammering most days, so vote patterns on me are fairly straightforward, and look pretty crummy tbh.

[hebichan]

That is not the major issue when doing VCA. you are looking for patterns between scum players, like one on one off the wagon. Hammering by itself is not necessarily scummy.

Fair enough.

[hebichan]

wait a minute I thought BP enabler meant he could make his scum budz BP against the vig? I really did not pay that much attention to it actually other than thinking oh great now some of the maf are BPs so we can't vig them.

Sure slipping up a bit too much here, slan is offering analysis while you keep floundering. The whole confirmed town thing was from when I thought you were right about the mod error being backup bulletproof.

I'm not really sure. All I have against him was the mafia going after him, but performer was questioning you a lot before death.

[hebichan]

People, talk please. I feel like I'm the deciding vote and it makes me nervous.

[hebichan]

Site is back

uggh you are not the only one Heb, I am trying to figure out if it is you, or slan and that means one of my two town reads was way off:(

How hard would you kill me if I said it isn't me?

[hebichan]

I'm about ready to vote, but it feels like a game of chicken. I don't wanna vote only to have so hammer.

[hebichan]

I am not going to hammer certainly not without getting a chance for Slan to speak after the site was down. I see no point in rushing.

It's things like this that make me more confident slandaar is Skype.

[hebichan]

Skype? lol did you mean SK?

Yes, I mean no, he is Skype.

[hebichan]

wait a minute I thought BP enabler meant he could make his scum budz BP against the vig? I really did not pay that much attention to it actually other than thinking oh great now some of the maf are BPs so we can't vig them.

There wasn't a mafia BP.

Town Enabler X -> Maf X
Maf Enabler Y -> Town Y

The question is if there is
Town Enabler X -> Maf X
Maf Enabler Y -> Town Y + Town Y or Town Y + SK Y

All I have against him was the mafia going after him, but performer was questioning you a lot before death.

I think Nero probably blocked me and then the SK kill was missing so thought I was SK hence the claim. He was wrong. There wouldn't be a kill in a number of situations - the SK shot Perf or Rach if it's you. It's also possible maf/sk shot the same target.

Perf was questioning due to knowing he was BP and Rach claiming BP. Do you think there are two town BP?

I am not going to hammer certainly not without getting a chance for Slan to speak after the site was down. I see no point in rushing.

It's things like this that make me more confident slandaar is Skype.

If you actually intend to vote me then I would like you to wait and let me vote first once I have decided who to vote. I am not confident right now on either of you but will have time on Sunday to read and make a decision.

You voting first would cause an issue for me if each was the sk, you voted me than rach quickhammered.

[hebichan]

uggh I am definitely NOT going to quick hammer I do not want to vote until I am sure which one of you is the SK

You say that, but one of you is the sk. So I can't really trust any to vote till I am sure.

[hebichan]

No but a mafia one would have enabled his buddies is what I meant and turned them BP it is quite surprising that he did not take advantage of that.

I'm very confused never want, what does this have to do with anything?

[hebichan]

Ehh my gut still says slandaar.
VOTE: slandaar

I shall end the chicken game to start the convince town slandaar is our man.

[hebichan]

I am going to do an iso read in a day or two when work load is a bit lighter and figure out which one. I can see pros and cons to both of you sigh

Slandaar has failed to vote despite saying he wiuld sunday, and he hasnt made a case for me, but now im certain you aren't sk and my theory about the mafia knowing he was was proven correct. You didn't hammer, so you are town. Just help town win here.

[hebichan]

that is a good point, just right now Im on deadline and it takes a while to do an ISO read.

I have to admit Im more looking at him than you, you do feel more towny, yet I had a town feel from him early on

I hate LYLO lol

I can't say he didn't fool me, cause if he didn't we wouldn't be in lylo right now.

[hebichan]

Question for both of you

What made you pick the person you picked over me, and why

You seemed to be honestly trying to solve the game, and mafia was trying to kill slandaar under the guise of it being a good lynch despite how he was finding scum a lot. I thought it seemed pretty obvious they found sk early on and wanted to kill him off before lylo.

After seeing you play well today, my doubts were pretty cleared up. The only hang up I had was your claim, which you explained early on and slandaarnseemed to be trying to use to frame you in that back and forth you two had earlier.

[hebichan]

VOTE: Hebi

Slandaar has failed to vote despite saying he wiuld sunday, and he hasnt made a case for me, but now im certain you aren't sk and my theory about the mafia knowing he was was proven correct. You didn't hammer, so you are town. Just help town win here.

Yes, Yes. My plans changed.

I haven't made a case for you? What relevance does that have? was like 90% going to vote Rach but luckily you prevented that. Besides, I have actually made a 'case' for you.

It's pretty evident I'm not the SK, I have been read too town, chance of being nked would have been way too high to play the way I have.

to start the convince town slandaar is our man.

You could try to explain how you were so confident when Rach was claiming BP with a BP already flipped. Yeah.

I wasn't all that confident. The fact you were left alive despite being so town and mafia trying to lynch you is super obvious on how you were bp serial killer and the mafia knew it. Hell, the fact you weren't nkd is actually a strike against you here. It only proves you weren't mafia.

Rach just seemed pretty confused all around on the bulletproof thing, and her saying that the mod probably screwed up pretty much sealed it for me that she was honestly a town bulletproof. I was still a bit shaky, but after a few days I felt you were the better lynch.

[hebichan]

You seemed to be honestly trying to solve the game, and mafia was trying to kill slandaar under the guise of it being a good lynch despite how he was finding scum a lot.

Yes, we have covered this a couple times already although I don't really feel I was finding the scum 'a lot' but anyways.

I agree Nero thought I was the SK. Makes complete sense. What happened is Hebi (SK) shot Perf/Rach when NC targetted me with an RB or maybe both shot same target etc. I see from your POV, Rach, that this is debateable but it shows the flaw in the argument and where Nero was wrong.

Hebi saved pushing this argument for today though instead of sorting it out yesterday. He hammered Fire without any real reasoning for him being SK to ensure he had an argument today which is actually alright if you ignore that the mafia can be (and were) wrong about who the SK is.

Note this:

I thought it seemed pretty obvious they found sk early on and wanted to kill him off before lylo.

If it was so obvious why did he vote Fire yesterday?

slandaarnseemed to be trying to use to frame you in that back and forth you two had earlier.

Mhmm. If I were the SK I would have just voted you earlier on off the back of my reads saying I was sure Rach was town. Two town BP is hard to believe so I was debating it.

I wasn't all that confident. The fact you were left alive despite being so town and mafia trying to lynch you is super obvious on how you were bp serial killer and the mafia knew it. Hell, the fact you weren't nkd is actually a strike against you here. It only proves you weren't mafia.

Well you sounded very confident and then you go on to say 'super obvious' in the next sentence.

Why are you saying I am BP? And I don't see how not being nked can possibly be a 'strike against' me. On D6 the day Nero claimed we had 1 death the night prior - DGB. This was not a vig shot so we know the mafia shot her based on Nero claiming as we can assume him claiming means SK kill is missing. The mafia therefore did not try to kill the SK. If I were the SK this means the mafia didn't choose to shoot me.

I had a scum read since replacing in on fire, I had no proof you were sk and as I said before, I thought you did look pretty town itherwise. People refuted the idea you were sk, and I admit to being easily swayed.

[hebichan]

What proof did you have that Fire was the SK?

When you say proof what you're doing is avoiding saying argument as you had one of those which, as covered, was the same one you have made today.

Why are you calling me BP all the time?

Cause its the only reason mafia would think you were sk, which you admit they did. It seems really random for them to just decide you were sk otherwise.

I had no proof fire was sk, I just really thought he looked scummy all game, it was a gut read that was wrong. I am fallable.

[hebichan]

I had no proof fire was sk, I just really thought he looked scummy all game, it was a gut read that was wrong. I am fallable.

My question was kind of rhetorical. The point was you clearly didn't have any thus:

When you say proof what you're doing is avoiding saying argument as you had one of those which, as covered, was the same one you have made today.

--

Why would mafia think I am an SK if they shot me and I didn't die? they couldn't have known there is no town protection role and I was in a position to be protected (townread a lot). Even then I could be town BP from their POV.

I think they used the RB on me and thought they blocked me killing it makes much more sense from their perspective. Not that it matters. They were wrong.

also

@Mod: can you prod Rach please?

You said yourself you were so town you should have been night killed, but you were not. I dont have nuch to add here. Most everything else is me not having everything thought out because I didnt expect to be in lylo at all, nor trying to make a case on you.

[hebichan]

Gods what a mess in this game,

Voting patterns really did not tell me much since most of the time both of you were on the same wagon at lynch time. It was a long shot since sk is out to get both the maf and the town, but thought it might help me clarify things.

Based on Perf's track thingy report Slan went nowhere, and I think he would have gotten a no result since i do think the sk is II not BP in this game.

Heb replaced in for illikebugs who basically just did a fadeaway which is NAI of course, but I do know that DGB when she was not uberdeath tunneling on the tracker slot, did periodically suggest bugs. She was most definitely wrong on her tunnel, but can't really blame her for that so many replacements and NOT ONE SINGLE ONE did his or her job which means we missed out on valuable info. That was a real bitter blow for us and KUDOS to Perf for stepping in.

On top of that the few times that Heb seemed suspicious of me they seem contrived mostly she has been rather solidly town reading me. I noticed that again when reading through. Meanwhile Slan was definitely suspicious especially around the whole claim thing when I stated I was town BP and Perf did too.

So I am making a decision and I do hope it is the right one, if I am wrong then Slan bloody well deserves this win.


VOTE: Heb

Welp im town gg.

[hebichan]

I told you mafia tried to shoot him and found he was bp.

My take away from this is have more self confidence, all my reads were right except firebringer, I just never pushed hard enough and allowed more experienced players to sway my opinion too much.

[hebichan]

Hebi, you could have gotten Slan lynched with just the LyLo argument.

Im confused on why it made him scum though?

[hebichan]

Voting in LyLo as town allows scum to quickhammer for an easy win. Town should never do it. If no one quickhammers, that makes the person who votes the person instant confirmed scum. Scum will always take the easy win over a forceful one unless they're ballsy.

That makes rach not scum, but it doesnt actually make me town since I voted first. I was actually thinking something along those lines, but I wasn't sure it was a good argument in the end. I mean, I was super confident in my slandaar vote at the time but.

[hebichan]

yeah I guess I was wrong on that I figured since Perf tracked him, and cleared him that it was a full clear, I figured he would have gotten a "no result" instead of slan going nowhere.

It did bother me he was still alive in LYLO though he was not nearly as active as I am used to. My gut was saying slan but I could not ignore the tracker report. Obviously I was right on the investigation immune, I just did not expect it to completely ignore the result instead of coming back as no result.

@ Nero at that point I was not really paying attention to if it was you or your pred at the time, the fact you were pushing the sk had to be BP told me maf had shot at me and failed. I figure that Slan did too at some point. He did the suspicion well. Of course that told me you were scum lol.

Heb I am always suspicious of someone who town reads me too much save a very few people like Nacho cause I know if Nacho is scum he will focus on busing his scum buds, plus he is good at town reading me not always as good at scum reading me, and I always feel guilty when he is town and I am scum and we win the game because of it. It comes from my first game onsite when I cost us the game for trusting the person who was so town reading me.

Well my reads were just really good all game for some reason. I just needed to push harder.

[hebichan]

hebichan I don't remember your reads being really good and you were always in my idea of being scum, but also "lynchbait"

My reads sucked this game, and I was highly demotivated each time I got into it, my only good reads were town reads, and Something_Smart.

It was a meh game completely to be honest.

I am not really blacklisting any plyaers.


Also I think a fitting title for me that Drixx called me "Serial Fluff" was pretty funny.

You were my one bad read, I correctly called kuroi, kts, performer and rach town. Also something smart scum I called scum after I dropped you.