OPEN 649 — PICK YOUR POWER X/Y. EXPERIMENT OVER.

[Skelda]

Heyy people. So scum are legit more likely to be higher on the list and are more likely to not duplicate the numbers of others assuming that they don't intentionally duplicate each other. We should just lynch down the list, maybe skipping Chrimi because she is a confirmed PR and is probably useful.

Vote: Creature

[Skelda]

Alternatively we could lynch a duplicate because that makes the other people they duplicated with less likely scum.

[Skelda]

For me, 3/4 was objectively the best way to go on this draft because they are low but the people who are shooting for low would go for 1/2, but yanno, it is kind of a crapshoot. Whatever.

[Skelda]

Ehhghh this is kind of veering into set-up spec territory, which isn't god-awful, but I really think we should just get reads the conventional way here. Maybe referring to them could help with associatives, but we shouldn't just be policy-lynching people because they're early on the list.

Skelda, besides his position in the draft, how are you scumreading Creature?

I'm not. I've barely read this thread because there is so. much. bullshit.

You could be scum tbh.

[Skelda]

Ehhghh this is kind of veering into set-up spec territory, which isn't god-awful, but I really think we should just get reads the conventional way here. Maybe referring to them could help with associatives, but we shouldn't just be policy-lynching people because they're early on the list.

Skelda, besides his position in the draft, how are you scumreading Creature?

Couldn't say it better myself

Kick me.

[Skelda]

I like it when people complain about bullshit, because they are actively contributing to more bullshit lol.

#Hypocrite.

LOVE THEM!

Right? Sheez.

I am a hypocrite. Bend to my every whim and you'll be fine.

[Skelda]

Seriously though Creature needs to die asap.

[Skelda]

Could see scum!Charloux choosing a number like 4 (low but not that much).

Why would they pick 4 as scum but not as town

Because their scumbuddy took their first choice?

[Skelda]

Didn't say town!Charloux wouldn't.

And your point is..?

[Skelda]

I'm not letting creature get lynched

Why?

He is seeming like low-hanging fruit to be honest. I'm embarrassed that he beat me in the draft.

[Skelda]

Tell me how I am being a low-hanging fruit.

You are just being a little simple-minded. It's okay, I'm pretty terrible at this too.

[Skelda]

I want to lynch Skelda.

reasoning: low-hanging fruit

Can you please not?

[Skelda]

No, thats not the right answer.

Why would you make 2 accounts on a site you arent used to? Its not like its a common occurance or a matter of course. You did something unusual, you had a reason.

But since she did this before the game, it is kind of irrelevant. That's pretty much her business.

[Skelda]

>> Dunnstral

>> Firebringer

>> Vedith

>> Shadow_Step
>> pisskop
>> Killthestory
>> gigabyteTroubadour

>> Skelda

>> MariaR

>> Charloux

>> Ümläüt

>> Chrimi

>> Creature

>> Zachstralkita

Does the crossing out mean that you think those people are Town? And if so, why?

I don't think you really are justified in having that many reads.

[Skelda]

Yeah, I don't want to lynch Maria. Not good.

[Skelda]

If you want me to explain why X looks town, I would probably have explained if I knew how to.

I mean, if a lot of it is meta that makes sense. I haven't played in ages so I don't know any of these people. I tend to think meta is overrated, but meh.

But we aren't lynching Maria just because she isn't someone you know.

[Skelda]

I'm sorry I honestly don't know what I did wrong I'm not new to the game but the whole "post on a forum" and not live is something I'm still trying to get use to. I'd rather die while we have a ml so that's okay I'm sorry for letting you guys down I'm not a very important PR so it's better I die over others. I guess...

Wtf you guys got off her wagon for this....?
Typical example of scum handwaiving the case against them.
Town will never "rather" die, plus claiming to have a PR when she got what 3-4 votes..???
That's bs town will never do

Ew gross. Town does BS all the time. Maria is my strongest Townread.

[Skelda]

oh, okay. I understand now.

Salt is a towntell. Shadow is town but misguided town.

You were on the right wagon before man, help me lynch scum.

Shadow can be Town but he's awful.

Creature still deserves votes.

[Skelda]

I like a Shadow lynch, but I'm feeling a bit more iffy about it I guess?

Creature kind of did a similar thing with that list he had with all of the players and crossing them out. He even crossed out Pisskop after like two posts that weren't alignment indicative in the slightest? I wasn't sure how to bring it up and Skelda kind of did but it just looked so fake to me.

eh

VOTE: Shadow_Step

Idec Maria is conf town, and anyone that pushes her at this point is flat out scum.

This brought me back.

I don't really see scum being as bold as Shadow. His logic is definitely questionable, but I'm not sure it comes from a scummy place.

Creature's crossed-out lists were bad. They seem so fake and easy to manufacture and I know he kinda explained it, but his explanation felt lazy and invented after the fact. And plus he works with my lynch down the line plan.

Creature should die today.

[Skelda]

VOTE: Maria
Not buying the victim act, and i see no town motivation in doing that.

I think piggy-backing off of Shadow like this is more scummy than what Shadow is doing.

[Skelda]

What do you think about my 149 and his lack of an explanation of where 63 was coming from?

I definitely agree with your above post but it's not new information to me.

also part of why i'm wishy washy is that i think 139 was directed at me and i didn't answer it... it seems kind of reasonable?

I definitely have been scumreading Charloux so I could also go there.

I think I probably agree with you in that post. His comment about you cracking under pressure was definitely coming from someone who hasn't read the thread super thoroughly, which I guess is probably scummy although I know I'm definitely guilty of that as Town so maybe not. The main problem that I have with this post and most Creature posts is that they just seem so fillery and are kind of devoid of substance.What is he even saying there? Nothing, he's just posting for the sake of posting.

And I'm not sure that 139 is that Town either. He's talking about calling you defensive being defensive early on a wagon to me isn't any more scummy than being defensive late on a wagon. Defensiveness seems like more of a personality trait than anything and where the game is at that point shouldn't make a huge difference to people who are naturally defensive people.

I guess he could be Town though. If a bunch of you feel strongly that this is just how Creature is as Town, I'd switch to Charloux for sure.

[Skelda]

I kinda wanted to vote Skelda I read there Iso and I don't really see anything that strikes me as towny but one of my biggest pet peeves/scum tells are in it where people go like ___ Could be town BUT (Idk/could be/maybe etc) always giving yourself a way out I do this myself I will admit but I still find it super scummy I don't really understand the tr on shadow because scum being bold isn't something new and shadow just put Skelda in a mafia team with me and Skelda just seems to ignore that

Or Pk I don't really enjoy their past posts and it just strikes me the wrong way it feels really rushed like "SOMEONE QUICK HAMMER" etc

I feel like if Skelda is mafia shadow is also and there is only 1 mafia in PK and Char and the info would help us out greatly

Explain me this, why am I mafia if Skelda is mafia ?

Sure thing pal! You put me and Skelda in a scum team and Skelda just out right ignored the claim acting like it wasn't even said or didn't bother them I feel like anyone would acknowledge a scumread on them unless it's by a partner and in that case some people do and some people don't Skelda also seems to have a light town read on you but that's not the problem it's the way Skelda puts the town read with comments like: "But could be" "Maybe it's" like a mini escape route if the read is wrong (and if by using the logic we have here it is)

I thought I quoted that post saying something snarky, but I just read my ISO and I didn't. I don't know what response you were looking for in reaction to that comment but it was kind of so laughable that it didn't warrant an actual response.

And what do you want me to be saying? That I'm absolutely positive about something when I'm not? This is Day 1, none of us have a clue what we are doing. I think you are over-analyzing me and you are just wrong, but hey, you are still Town. And if you want to vote for me, do it. It doesn't matter if other people aren't on board, we have 11 days, there is still time for me to be the Day 1 lynch. Or vote for PK if you suspect him more.

I don't know who I think is scum to be honest with you people. I don't think I want to switch to Charloux anymore. I still think Creature is a fine vote. Giga and Maria are Town, probably Shadow too. I guess Vedith is a fine vote too, I don't really remember anything they've done so far though which is scummy? Same with Umlaut, total nothing in my memory.

I should reread the game but I don't feel like it right now. Maybe tomorrow.

[Skelda]

>> Dunnstral

>> Firebringer

>> Vedith

>> Shadow_Step

>> pisskop

>> Killthestory

>> gigabyteTroubadour

>> Skelda

>> MariaR

>> Charloux

(reason stated by giga)
>> Ümläüt

>> Chrimi

>> Creature

>> Zachstralkita

I thought you had me as Town before. What happened to that?

I was really enjoying not being suspected this game, lol. That hardly ever happens.

I still think it is Creature. I'm not convinced about it being Shadow, but he has suspiciously shitty reads.

[Skelda]

I was really enjoying not being suspected this game, lol. That hardly ever happens.

But you weren't not suspected

Oh yeah, I forgot about you. Well, I wasn't suspected relative to how much I usually am on this site.

[Skelda]

I think Firebringer earlier raised a good point about Shadow – his continued suspicion on Maria looks tryhard but in a fake way. To me, it's like he feels he has to look consistent and is now only on Skelda to make an excuse to vote someone else. I did say it was plausible for Shadow to be town and just have really bad opinions, but the move onto Skelda seems very strange to me.

I am interested in knowing what made Creature change his read on Skelda, I didn't pick up on it until it was pointed out.

Yeah, that makes sense. I definitely am kind of shifting my opinion about the Maria thing being scummy in itself because Charloux made a good point about going against the rest of the Town's opinions not being scummy. But I think Shadow's opinions have continued to be so bad that I'm doubting they are coming from a Town perspective.

[Skelda]

> Thank gosh! All of you are still alive. I'm glad we didn't need to make any replacements before the fun had even begun!
> Now... here are the exciting results to this very interesting social experiment!

== Draft Order ==

Chrimi — 1
Creature — 9
Killthestory — 11
MariaR — 13
Dunnstral — 2
gigabyteTroubadour — 2
Skelda — 4
Charloux — 4
Ümläüt — 5
pisskop — 5
Zachstralkita — 6
cytheflyguy — 6
Vedith — 12
Shadow_Step — 12


Please hang tight while Draft PMs are sent out. Please don't send selections before you receive a PM or I will send you a picture of a sad turtle.

If you pick a slot that is taken already, you will receive this PM:

> Golly gosh! You have picked a selection that someone has already picked. And guess what! They were a higher in the draft order.
> Boo hoo! You lose!
> It's okay...
> ... being out there... defenceless... you'll be fine.
> ... probably.

And you will receive your final Vanilla Townie/Mafia Goon role PM with everyone else during the Final Phase.

> EDIT:
> All PMs have been sent! Please send choices by (expired on 2016-07-23 00:45:00).
> Confirmations: 14/14.

EDIT: Congrats to all the winners! All selection PMs have been sent.

This should be useful, there was confirmation that mafia were able to talk pregame so it would be less likely for two mafia to pick the same number in draft (since it makes them less likely to get their abilities) unless they were gambiting

Yes, exactly. And the reward of gambiting for scum is smaller than the reward of shooting to get high on the draft, so that is definitely something to keep in mind.

If we lynch scum and they duplicated, we might get a very likely Town person in the person that they duplicated with. Shadow was the same as Vedith and I highly doubt that two scum would both choose a high number like 12 even if they were doing that, so if we're thinking Shadow is scum Vedith probably isn't.

[Skelda]

Uggh, this site is so frustrating to me. I've been lynched Day 1 so. many. times. both as Town and as scum and it just gets old. That's why I stopped playing and then it is like nope, you are getting lynched again. Absolutely perfect.

Shameless appeal to emotion, whatever.

So let's figure out who these fuckers are.

I think some of them just jumped onto me for sure. Vedith makes a lot of sense over Shadow actually.

[Skelda]

I'm just gonna pour my emotions into a page right now feel free to read or don't

I honestly feel frustrated with myself because I was told in my first game my biggest mistake was I didn't have presence. I feel like this is happening again because I feel really good in a lot of my reads but I don't wanna be rude and like pushy saying LYNCH THIS NOW I'm at a point where I'm just asking light questions and asking people "hey can you vote this" I don't really know what I should be doing do I need to change my whole play to be noticed because all I feel like is like my voice is just not heard am I quiet am I not making good points? When people look at me all I see is "ha ha Maria's town lets move on" I don't want that I wanna be known as helping lead this and finding scum I won't be proud of my gameplay otherwise so what the fuck do I do.

I get that some of you could be scared also because it's day 1 and reads can always be shakey but I think we should all have faith in our abilities

You could start by stopping pushing me because I'm Town and I continue to be Town and there's no valid case against me. Getting confident about wrong reads is never good.

[Skelda]

I think Wake is Town. I feel like this is how Wake is as Town.

[Skelda]

I'm just gonna pour my emotions into a page right now feel free to read or don't

I honestly feel frustrated with myself because I was told in my first game my biggest mistake was I didn't have presence. I feel like this is happening again because I feel really good in a lot of my reads but I don't wanna be rude and like pushy saying LYNCH THIS NOW I'm at a point where I'm just asking light questions and asking people "hey can you vote this" I don't really know what I should be doing do I need to change my whole play to be noticed because all I feel like is like my voice is just not heard am I quiet am I not making good points? When people look at me all I see is "ha ha Maria's town lets move on" I don't want that I wanna be known as helping lead this and finding scum I won't be proud of my gameplay otherwise so what the fuck do I do.

I get that some of you could be scared also because it's day 1 and reads can always be shakey but I think we should all have faith in our abilities

You could start by stopping pushing me because I'm Town and I continue to be Town and there's no valid case against me. Getting confident about wrong reads is never good.

This post is odd; "there's no valid case against me"

There isn't. What do you want me to say?

[Skelda]

I think Wake is Town. I feel like this is how Wake is as Town.

so you mean obnoxious and terrible?

Yes. And very easy to lynch.

[Skelda]

I don't think anyone's explained to me why Skelda is scum. The Skelda wagon is so strange because I feel like everyone on it just telepathically agreed that Skelda is scummy but?? Where? Why? When?

It bothers me because I townread most of the people on it so I want to believe it's a decent wagon but I don't get it. Maria, I think, is the only person that explained it but I don't agree with what she said.

Also, Wake, KTS has almost no scum meta. I've

tried

.

Aww, you're my hero. <3

Seriously though, I 100% agree obviously. There isn't a case against me. Maria's case wasn't good but I can accept that she believes it, but no way did that convince all of the other voters. They just hive-minded it up.

[Skelda]

I think I'll watch from a distance.

Do you think I'm scum? We could team up on these losers.

[Skelda]

I think I'll watch from a distance.

Do you think I'm scum? We could team up on these losers.

Well, you did say I was very easy to lynch which, judging by the actual evidence on this forum... is actually the opposite case.

What I can point out quite easily is that you're wrong, but neither that nor your attitude tells me at the current moment what your alignment is.

There's good reason why Town players haven't lynched me in well over a year: they know exactly when I'm obvTowning.

I have no sense of self-preservation. I don't care about surviving. I care about finding/killing Scum, being right, and having Town win.

All the other things like Readlists and walls I gave up on because that effort usually went unappreciated. Besides, I get reads better through direct confrontation.

At the moment I don't know if you're Scum, but time will tell. As for the second sentence I'm not sure in what world you thought that sentiment would do anything to help your position.

Were you easy to lynch when you first came to this forum? I haven't played in a long time and you were the only player I recognize here.

I dunno, I like you. And I didn't think the second sentence was going to move anyone to vote either way, I'm just irritated with these people because they'd rather lynch an unknown than the people they have experience with, which is stupid but that's how this site goes. The only solid thing that they have on me is that they don't know how to read me and it is total nonsense.

There is absolutely no case against me other than, "Oh Skelda has given us no reason to think that he is Town." That's complete rubbish and lazy scumhunting.

[Skelda]

Vote: Vedith

He's a little opportunistic for me.

[Skelda]

I still think that it is Creature though.

[Skelda]

Vote: Vedith

He's a little opportunistic for me.

I still think that it is Creature though.

So why are you voting Vedith?

Because my vote has been on Creature all Day and I don't think people are going to agree to it. The same reason Shadow isn't voting Maria.

[Skelda]

Vote: Vedith

He's a little opportunistic for me.

Voting Shadow would have been my opportunity actually.
Unless you think he's my buddy, of course.

I don't think he's your buddy because you both picked 12 and that is stupid for scum.

[Skelda]

Maria, Skelda what are your views on Chrimi ?

Nullish Town. She hasn't done much, but I think she was a little Townish.

[Skelda]

Skelda, I asked you a question.

Skelda, besides Vedith which other two are you looking at?

Well, I think Vedith, Creature, and someone random I don't know. It could be someone like Zach or Dunnstral that is slipping by for now. I don't think it is Shadow or Fire or Giga or Maria or you or KTS. There's probably someone being widely Townread that is scum though.

And sorry for missing this earlier, I saw it and forgot to answer it.

And with Chrimi, I dunno, I don't really get the case against her. Do people really lurk a lot more as scum? I think lurkers can definitely be Town too and some of her posts just gave me a gut Townish vibe. I don't think I want to vote for her today, and the fact that she is a confirmed PR and probably a very useful one definitely compounds that. I think if the number one spot who is probably a Cop never dies at Night, that's when you start thinking about lynching that person. And that way, even if she is Town she would get to out all of her results before dying.

[Skelda]

Yeah, Neighorizer is a terrible first pick. Legit terrible.

There is very likely a strong PR that didn't wind up in this gamr and someone lower on the list probably took Neighborizer assuming that it wouldn't be taken. If you are first on the list and you are Town, you use the opportunity to get as many powerful PRs in Town's hands as possible.

[Skelda]

Neighborizer definitely does have more Town Utility whrn hooked up with other PRs and stuff. But it still is an awful first pick, whoever gets first draft pick should pick Cop.

[Skelda]

I like both of the wagons on Creature and Piss. I'm not sure which one I like more even.

Vote: Creature

[Skelda]

Use your brain a little! What happens to town during the night who got first pick in draft? It would make more sense for scum to take a vig. UNLESS scum got the first two role picks.

Scum do not always kill Town who got first pick. It doesn't always make sense depending on how lynchable the person is.

[Skelda]

Better question; what have you done?

This seems super unhelpful and is really making me doubt Piss. Nothing that Creature presents as his own Townish behavior is going to be convincing because Townish behavior that someone is aware of can easily be faked. Unconscious tells are more valid.

It isn't Creature's job to read himself.

[Skelda]

Creature's readlists aren't AI. I think he may only be saying what he feels needs to be said rather than being purposely vague or obstructive.

I like both of the wagons on Creature and Piss. I'm not sure which one I like more even.

Vote: Creature

aand i don't like this

Yeah that was a pretty easy post to go after.

Zach could be scum. Maria, come for me for not being more certain.

[Skelda]

Creature's readlists aren't AI. I think he may only be saying what he feels needs to be said rather than being purposely vague or obstructive.

I like both of the wagons on Creature and Piss. I'm not sure which one I like more even.

Vote: Creature

aand i don't like this

Yeah that was a pretty easy post to go after.

Zach could be scum. Maria, come for me for not being more certain.

LMAO ARE U going to react like this every time someone blinks at you?

Yes.

I know it comes off as opportunistic and I did before I made the post. It's just an easy thing to go after.

[Skelda]

And I didn't mean that you are going after me, I just meant that that is the sort of easy-to-point-out thing that scum love. Look at how much Zach is contributing!

[Skelda]

I mean, at this point it is feeling like I'm going to be lynched this game eventually. I still don't feel like there is a great case against me, but it is kind of exhausting and I prefer an early lynch to a late one that hurts Town more.

Creature continues to be scum, btw.

[Skelda]

But keep in mind that I've probably been lynched Day 1 more than anything else on this site. But I've been lynched in LyLo the second most which is way worse.

I think there are better lynches this game, but I think I would likely be suspected today regardless of my alignment. Unfortunately for you people, I'm Town.

[Skelda]

Zach, what are you asking me?

[Skelda]

zach did you make that gif?

also if this were an mmo i'd def be a healer. but like. i would be too poor to afford the actual game, so i'd be forced to play the demo and be capped at level 20. until then, i am a leech to the party but i stay because of my charismatic attitude and interesting counterpoint to the group's general dynamic. obviously.

Skelda, if you come online soon, don't forget to claim what role pair you picked.

I picked Doctor. I didn't get it.

[Skelda]

I think I'm lynched? Good luck Town.

[Skelda]

Oh so I'm not hammered. I'd assumed that I was. I'm still going to be probably but now it is just awkward.

Vote: Vedith

Maybe we can get that going?

[Skelda]

Would it even be a quickhammer at this point? We got Skelda's last words, and I think the people on the wagon intend to stay on it.

VOTE: Vedith

Skelda is scum, if he was town he would have raged about getting hampered so early.

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I was resigned to dying if I needed to die, my main focus was just getting my claim out. But I don't think I would have been super annoyed regardless of alignment. I'm not you.

[Skelda]

We have five hours people.

I'm at L-1. Vedith is at L-2.

I think the case against Vedith is just better than the case against me. But if we get near deadline and no one is budging people are free to switch back to me. But I'm still not scum.

[Skelda]

VOTE: Skelda

If you're Town, forgive me.

It's fine Wake. I hope Town can pull out a win.

I'm feeling weird about Zach, maybe consider him tomorrow.

And that still wasn't the hammer I don't think. I need one more because Wake was already voting for me.

[Skelda]

Hey, I'm here. So the Vedith wagon went away while I was gone? I still think it is Vedith. Has someone been hammered yet?

[Skelda]

Good job scum! This was a fun game even though I died early, I think all of the scum played very well and you guys really only got Maria and KTS because they were handed to you. But a lot of lynches weren't really super thought through and you didn't have any obvious Town so that's what did Town in.

I thought Zach was obvious in the endgame but it is easy to say that when you've been out of the game for so long.