Mini 1811 [Game Over]

[Xkfyu]

I'm heeeeeere.

Who we lynching?

[Xkfyu]

I'm heeeeeere.

Who we lynching?

iraonvp hopefully

Well, I'm only on Page 3 of my catchup but, so far, I am leaning town on iraonavp. So, I won't be supporting that wagon, as of right now.

[Xkfyu]

@JarJar

If you'll recall, we played in NY:193 together.

In your opinion, how much has your play changed (if at all) since that game?

[Xkfyu]

I do recall. I'd say my play hasn't changed at all since I've been pretty damn successful playing the way I have.

Good. That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

VOTE: evilpacman18

Posts 271 and 275 are spot on.

I'm all caught up now. Full reads list coming soon.

[Xkfyu]

I'm all caught up now. Full reads list coming soon.

This will have to come tomorrow. I won't have time tonight.

[Xkfyu]

*Sighs*

Another 11 pages to catch up on. I was too busy at work yesterday to get on here, but I promise that reads list is coming.

[Xkfyu]

I'm heeeeeere.

Who we lynching?

iraonvp hopefully

Well, I'm only on Page 3 of my catchup but, so far, I am leaning town on iraonavp. So, I won't be supporting that wagon, as of right now.

Why are you leaning town on ira? What do you believe shows town motivation in his posting?

At that time, it was mostly because of 8.

"You're right, this is my scum play" Strikes me as scummy. That's a defense. "Welp lynch me" Is the same thing. Defensive scum play. Also the quote change thing seems like he's caring too much about what he's saying and how he's saying it.

Nah it's coming off as frustration, which is closer to NAI than anything. If I had to put a lean on it I'd go town. I've seen quite a few town say stuff like that. Usually only once or twice though. The repeating of it is a little weird, I guess.

Normally I'd agree w/ this. But his in particular seem contrived as if he pretending to be frustrated.

Look @ each of those post and tell me if he really has something to be frustrated about:

68
236

People aren't really even accussing him of being scum. He's just so quick to jump to "lynch me" when no one is saying to lynch him.

He's an alt, and honestly, I can think of a few different players that this kind of reaction could come from. All of which, I think would make them most likely town.

Well...except for maybe one.

Accountant seems to have just suddenly stepped in the game and literally gone for the nearest bare throat he saw, and has Iraon locked in his sights. The attack on him seems very direct and very forced somehow. As far as I can tell, the whole suspicion thing on Iraon was just him and trivium bumping heads slightly and he didn't seem to answer things quite right. I have gotten stuck in this trap myself so I agree that he probably just reads formal and maybe a tad awkward, but it could also be nervousness & defensiveness if he is bad. I don't really have a good read on him yet, but I do find it extremely weird that Accountant jumped on him like that and just won't let up. Accountant, can you shed some light on why you are so quick to jump on Iraon? You seem quite eager.

Honestly, even though it was just one game, this does sound exactly like the town Accountant I played against previously.

End of Page 13

[Xkfyu]

vote: Trivium

After, what I thought to be, a pretty solid case against Trivium, laid out by MURDERCAT, I was just about to vote for Trivium.

However, this vote from pacman looks very opportunistic to me. Like he's just been sitting there waiting for someone to make a good case against someone so that he can vote them.

Though, the strength of his case does beg the question, why didn't MURDERCAT vote Trivium?

I'd prefer not to lynch until IAI, ira and xykfu say some more.

I thought you said you never vote until you're ready for the day to end?

My wagon is pretty bullshit. Just going to put that out there. I mean, I have a bunch of people voting me because of a gutread of Murder, who's obviously distancing themselves from my lynch by being weirdly indecisive. That beginning bit that murdercat seems all 'pinged' about is really just me fucking around to get out of rvs as fast as possible because I don't get the point of it. I'm not going to defend myself any more either, so you can either fuck off or mislynch. I don't think murdercat is mafia, but evilpacman is obviously sheeping hard and I'm just disappointed with the confirmed town.

I'm not pushing for your lynch?

Why was that exactly?

--------------------

I just read the cotastrophy that was pages 17 and 18. I'm pretty sure that ira is town here. I don't think he was intentionally dodging questions. I think he is town who legitimately thought he had answered the questions. I've seen this a lot times, always from frustrated townies who are being ganged up on.

I dunno maybe he wasn't quite dodging or anything like that... I think that was just an inability to answer the question because of miscommunication.

You sound a lot like you're scum unsure whether to bus or save your partner right now dude

I disagree, but only with half half of your statement.

I think he sounds like scum being unsure of whether or not he wants to look like opportunistic scum by pushing for a town ira's mislynch.

--------------------

Oh...it just keeps going...

--------------------

No, I answered every question I can. It's just that MURDERCAT pretends like I didn't answer the question and asks it again, to create the illusion that I am being evasive.

Except jae also thinks the same. Is jae also mafia contributing to the illusion? Holy shit your arguments are downright absurd

You do realize JaeReed is innocent child...

You and MURDERCAT are scum-aligned trying to make me look bad. JaeReed is just mislead.

If you are town, then JaeReed is obviously mislead.

Knowing that, don't you think it could be the case that at least one of (if not both) Accountant and MC are also just mislead townies?

End of Page 19

[Xkfyu]

Don't engage with iraon, he knows he's caught and is jamming up the thread with pages of evasive bs and accusing everyone who jumps on him.

No, that's just what you're saying so nobody changes their mind and you lose your position. If I was really scum-aligned then you wouldn't need to tell other people to ignore me, it's just you're afraid that what I'm saying will get through to enough people and you will lose your mislynch.

Yeah OK this is a load of bull. Also I'm confused about what's going on and I want to get rid of the confusion so.
VOTE: iraonvp

Give a solid response to the question murdercat asked you. You have like 4 people all saying the same thing, and one of them is the IC.

Ok yeah, I'm ready to do this now.

UNVOTE: evilpacman18

VOTE: Trivium

The bold makes me think he's just using JaeReed's IC status as a scapegoat. Like he's saying, "The IC is even suspicious of him, so you guys totally can't blame me when ira flips town."

How would you expect scum to react to the back and forth with Ira if Ira was indeed town? Because if I had to point a finger at anything to describe it it'd be what Trivium posted around that time.

"Hey guys, I'll be busy for the next day so I won't be around to post much. [insert previously established strong read] is still town/scum." then sit back and watch ira dig his own grave

See, look! MURDERCAT probably told Accountant in the mafia chat that if I was accused that I would dig my own grave, how would Accountant know that I usually get mislynched otherwise?

This is paranoia, but it's reaching paranoia. Scummy paranoia. Aware that the mafia have daychat paranoia.

Huh?

Were you not aware that mafia have daychat?

Here's the thing Iraon, your posts don't make sense. The questions I asked were actually all legitimate attempts to understand you position. When you just say things like "look at this it's ridiculous" that's not enough for me to know if you are town or scum. Understanding

why

you think it is ridiculous is what I need from you. I see you think it's wifom, but do you really think that scum is going to act scummy to wifom? Isn't scum's goal to try to look townie?

My posts make perfect sense and I explained it so many times...

You absolutely could not have failed to understand my simple position and had to request me to repeat myself so many times because you actually didn't understand. It was all for show.

Ok, I'm going to explain this to you because I actually think you do believe what you say. However, I assure you, that don't make nearly as much sense as you think they do.

Your posts make perfect sense to you, but that's only because you wrote them and you already know exactly what you were trying to say. Everyone else doesn't have that kind of insight.

You would be much better off to really take your time say exactly what it is you are trying to say. Even if it becomes over-simplified, the key word here is "explicit."

By default, scum possess both day and night chat.

Was already confirmed... We just forgot.

...Someone would have saved iraon from himself by now if he had a partner, surely?

Surely.

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

I am saying that because I

am

obvious town. And I will continue to say it, if I wish to poke fun at people who know it's true but are pretending I am not as townie as I actually am.

This needs to stop right the fuck now. I am not having this happen again. Explain why you're townie. I can't believe I'm agreeing with the grasping for straws iraonscum.

Lol. You can read me however you want for whatever reasons you want, but there's a reason everyone is town reading me.

NAH. Explain that reason please. And not everyone is townreading you. VOTE: MURDERCAT

What the hell is this vote?

You leave ira's wagon to vote the same person as ira?

Spoiler:

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

I am saying that because I

am

obvious town. And I will continue to say it, if I wish to poke fun at people who know it's true but are pretending I am not as townie as I actually am.

This needs to stop right the fuck now. I am not having this happen again. Explain why you're townie. I can't believe I'm agreeing with the grasping for straws iraonscum.

Lol. You can read me however you want for whatever reasons you want, but there's a reason everyone is town reading me.

NAH. Explain that reason please. And not everyone is townreading you. VOTE: MURDERCAT

This vote literally could not intimidate me less.

Why do you think he's trying to intimidate you with this vote?

End of Page 21

[Xkfyu]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

Exactly, it's usually scum-aligned. I saw a player do this in a game I played before as well: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7675815.

In my experience, it more often comes from town aligned players who incorrectly believe that everyone SHOULD be town reading them based off their play (because they are clearly biased), than scum.

But, maybe I've just played too many games with town Nahdia.

PS: Hi Nahdia

VOTE: Iraonvp Thank you.

Well, that was easy. By the way, I'm also doing the same things MC said he was doing.

Can I get one of those town reads too?

I would like everyone who hasn't posted recently (

JarJarDrinks

,

evilpacman18

,

Town Mafioso

,

Xkfyu

,

I Am Innocent

,

Tam

) to give a firm stance on whether iraonvp looks townier or scummier due to this interaction.

I've pretty much already answered this, but I'll explicitly answer the question.

I definitely think he's town after all of this.

In post 536, Bacde wrote:
In post 489, JarJarDrinks wrote:
like an IAI/Town Mafioso scumteam seems pretty probable to me right now

+1

I could go IAI just because I haven't seen anything lately. Flying under the radar while town self destructs has got to be hilarious to mafia.

I'd be down for this as well, if the Trivium lynch doesn't happen.

------------------

And I'm caught up. Time to get to work on that reads list.

[Xkfyu]

Better late than never, right? Here are my current reads:

Town

Accountant

- I think Accountant is one of those players that I tend to genuinely disagree with a lot. I've played in one game with him (he was town), and I'm getting the exact same feeling about him now.

Bacde

- His "Let's lynch Xkfyu as a joke" stuff makes him look inconcerned about how people view him. Post 186 feels super townie to me. Plus, he shares my Trivium scum read.

iraonavp

- RVS or not, I still really like 8 and 10. Also, as I said in 560, I'm pretty sure ira is town.

JarJarDrinks

- Even though I'm less convinced about pacman now, not only did I agree with JJD's points about him in 245, 271, and 275, it also showed that JJD was actively thinking and doing a lot of reading. Which is exactly what I would expect from a town JJD.

MURDERCAT

- I think Accountant's play style would generally make him an easy target for a mislynch. So, I like the way MC pointed out, in 338 that what Tam was talking about with Accountant is NAI, instead of agreeing with her and possibly pushing on Accountant. That's a pretty minor thing, but I do really like the effort that he's put in, and his pressure on ira was good, if a little long.

Town Mafioso

- Posts 48 and 49, the way he openly talks about a town block, and admitting that his vote on JJD was a chainsaw vote, makes me think he's probably town. What I said in the beginning of 564 still stands, as well.

Null

evilpacman18

- I skimmed over this post in my first read through because of how cluttered it is, but looking back, it comes accross as totally genuine to me. Which makes me wonder if he shouldn't be in the town pile. I just can't ignore the points on him that JJD mentioned.

I Am Innocent

- I know I have the least right out of pretty much everyone here to complain about someone's activity levels, but at least my posts have had some kind of content. I'd be fine with lynching him as a compromise towards the end of the day, assuming he doesn't pick it up/get replaced.

Scum

Tam

- So, her second post, post 306. Remember what I said about Accountant's play style making him an easy target? I also agree with whoever it was that said everything she says is too perfect.

Trivium

- I've talked quite a bit recently on why I think Triv is scum. I'd also like to point out that, reading his ISO, I did find another instance, post 76, where he causually mentions that the IC agrees with him.

-----------------------------

So, it seems that I have a lot of town reads, which may suggest that at least one of them is wrong. If I had to chooose someone from my town pile that I was wrong about, I think I'd have to choose either JJD or Bacde. Not because I think either of them has been scummy in any way, but because I think they would probably have the best chance at fooling me.

[Xkfyu]

I guess my response to that post would be... I scumread mafioso so I'd be down with lynching him. IaI is also a good policy lynch.

But I thought you said that you agreed that they seem probable as a team. Now you're saying that IAI would be nothing more than a policy lynch?

[Xkfyu]

Prod dodge.

I'll be catching up tomorrow.

[Xkfyu]

Xkfyu:
Scum
Tam - So, her second post, post 306. Remember what I said about Accountant's play style making him an easy target? I also agree with whoever it was that said everything she says is too perfect.

So, again, I'm not sure how to defend against saying the perfect things...if someone can elaborate, or maybe actually bring something up that I can answer, that would be great.
(Maybe even have an original reason why you don't like me, and not just tag on to other people's thoughts alone?) I did see you point out a specific post by me, but I don't understand what about the post you didn't like...my calling out Accountant? Someone I've never played with for acting like he normally does? I dunno. The way you worded it made me think you were suspicious of me because of something YOU said? Please elaborate.

So, there may not be any way to defend yourself against the "perfect wordings" thing, but it is what it is.

In regards to Accountant, I don't think aggressive playstyles are scummy. Though, a lot of people do (I suspect it has more to do with people disliking aggressive personalities, in general, than anything Mafia related).

Anyways, from my experience, Accountant has a tendency to aggressively push who he thinks is scum, even early on. And I think this makes him a huge target for scum to push. Especially if he's wrong, which I think he is, at this time (page 26), about ira.

Failure quote but I have a point here. I see scum defending a scumpartner by making absolutely no case, but simply saying that their lynch isn't going to happen.

Shit...

Confirmation bias. That doesn't come from scum.

UNVOTE: Trivium

End of Page 29

[Xkfyu]

I need other people than scum to start posting again. I really do because I just found the scum team.

Is this a regular occurrence for you, finding all 3 scum with absolute certainty d1?

Because I don't quite believe it.

Also, Tam, I don't like your last post on the previous page. I think that's totally fake. Why would you "hope" your SR is innocent? Why would you be so certain now when you were wishy-washy a moment ago? Sure, this "I got both scum" gimmick is incredibly incriminating, but I don't see how that sudden conviction makes sense. Your forewarning doesn't make it any better.

Predit: Um, what? Bacde? Those last three posts were abysmal, especially when taken in conjunction to the ones you made just this page. Since when have you SR'd Tam?

I don't think you understand my "are you making a town case of me" post

I'm trying to point out to Triv that he isn't making any sense with his flailing and hoping he will cool down and come to his senses tbh

I'm making so much sense and you aren't doing anything to defend yourself except for claim that I'm flailing.

Did ira take over your account all of a sudden?

[Xkfyu]

Robbnva replaces Trivium.

Oops

UNVOTE: Robbnva

[Xkfyu]

robb you and I operate on such different wavelengths that it's gonna be super hard to work with you

this post was really towny (unless rob flips scum I guess)

How is the towniness of the post dependent on Rob's flip?

[Xkfyu]

Predit: I already explained that in the next post[/quote]
You're right. Sorry. I posted my question before I read any further.

[Xkfyu]

EBWOP:

Predit: I already explained that in the next post

You're right. Sorry. I posted my question before I read any further.

[Xkfyu]

Lol I did it again.

[Xkfyu]

Scumtell? Maybe not. Nobody would lynch him for that but it factors into his credibility. He's not a trustworthy person so it makes it harder to trust him cause if he'd lie about something meaningless like that, what else would he lie about?

hahahahaha no this logic is bad

It's certainly not bad logic in everday life. In fact, it's spot on.

However, Mafia is not everyday life, and there are instances where town legitimately lie. In this case though, I feel like the whole thing is pretty irrelevant.

[Xkfyu]

My definition of a lie he did but it's irrelevant at this point. Moving on

You can't just go around having your own definition of words. That's not how definitions work.

[Xkfyu]

My definition of a lie he did but it's irrelevant at this point. Moving on

You can't just go around having your own definition of words. That's not how definitions work.

Well I use the definition in the dictionary.

"an intentionally false statement."

Lol ok. Like you said, moving on.

[Xkfyu]

VOTE: Tam

Much more comfortable with this now.

Based on what?

[Xkfyu]

Robb's posting.

I'm behind, I've just been skimming for a while, but I'll catch up soon.

Oh, I gotcha. You meant that you are more comfortable with the Tam wagon, as opposed to the Triv/Rob wagon. I thought you meant that you were just more comfortable with the Tam wagon, in general.

[Xkfyu]

Just realized that I didn't vote.

VOTE: Tam

For reasons that I have mentioned previously.

[Xkfyu]

Robb's posting.

I'm behind, I've just been skimming for a while, but I'll catch up soon.

Oh, I gotcha. You meant that you are more comfortable with the Tam wagon, as opposed to the Triv/Rob wagon. I thought you meant that you were just more comfortable with the Tam wagon, in general.

We still have 7 days, 1 hour, and 28 minutes left. Cool it, MURDERCAT.

Huh?

[Xkfyu]

Actually it sort of went the toher way around -- someone else said it was a reason of yours, I said it was a bad reason, then you acknowledged it was a reason -- but it's close enough, and we still have 7 days left.

That's twice you've mentioned how much time we have left in the day.

You're not one of those "Always wait until deadline to lynch" players, are you?

[Xkfyu]

Actually it sort of went the toher way around -- someone else said it was a reason of yours, I said it was a bad reason, then you acknowledged it was a reason -- but it's close enough, and we still have 7 days left.

That's twice you've mentioned how much time we have left in the day.

You're not one of those "Always wait until deadline to lynch" players, are you?

I'm too new to be any particular type of player but I was under the impression it was optimal not to let the lynch go through less than halfway through the day

Ah, didn't notice your join date. That's fair.

fair enough. I still think a day or two is a little early when the phase is a week long

Well, the game started a week ago, and the day phases are two weeks long. So, we are only about half way through the phase, but we have been playing for a whole week.

[Xkfyu]

UNVOTE: Tam

VOTE: Sonrio

[Xkfyu]

I'm floating around page 30-31 area and idk if I think scum Trivium would be like "I found all the scum already"

I kinda agree w/ this. Totally clashes w/ his earlier attitude of "I have no idea what I'm doing".

Me too. I'm pretty sold on that slot being town at this point.

[Xkfyu]

also can't really resist a wagon of 4 of my strongest townreads

this post "pings" me.

VOTE: unvote

Can you elaborate please?

[Xkfyu]

in other words: the post is scummy.

It just sounds too sly/passive/something. Man, idk. Also I really don't like him using that to justify anything......

Like, sheeping your townreads is in and of itself a bit, um, un-scumhunty???

If you can't tell I'm having trouble with words rn

In isolation, I guess I can see how you could believe that, but I don't see how you can look at his recent string of posts and think any of that.

For one, assuming he's town, then he does have 4 legitimate town reads. Meaning that he HAS done some hunting, and some people would argue that town hunting is even more important than scum hunting.

Of course, if he's scum, then he's probably just buddying up to the four players who were on the wagon at the time, and yes, justifying his vote with that. Which would mean Tam is town and suggest that most (if not all) of the players on her wagon are also town.

So, what do you think? Should we lynch pacman? If he flips scum, that's a lot of players that we can eliminate from our scum pool.

[Xkfyu]

normally I would agree but I've seen townies say the same shit 3-4 times in other games and they were never scum so it's NAI for me

If they were always town, wouldn't that suggest that it is town-indicative, instead of NAI?

[Xkfyu]

Should we lynch pacman? If he flips scum, that's a lot of players that we can eliminate from our scum pool.

???????????????????????? how is a townie tring people enough to eliminate all his tr's from a scumpool (except me, go ahead and clear me)

I don't understand the question. The scenario only eliminated his "town reads" from the scum pool in the event that pacman flipped scum.

[Xkfyu]

You did say the post was scummy, right?

[Xkfyu]

yes but I read the word scum in your post as town for some reason. Also one scummy post isn't enough for me to determine whether he's most likely to be scum compared to other people;.......

No no. I'm not saying that you believe that. I'm actually leaning town on him, in fact. I'm just putting forth a risk vs reward scenario for us to discuss.

The game is starting to become stagnant, so I'm trying to manufacture some thoughts and discussion from people.

[Xkfyu]

I'm always trying to manufacture thoughts and discussion on people because my mind has become stagnant so I can relate to that!

I think I want to lynch jarjardrinks though

Ok good, more discussion.

Why JarJar?

[Xkfyu]

Also, if anyone would like to chime in on what I said about pacman, feel free to do so.

I actually do think it's worth discussing.

[Xkfyu]

but accountant thinks it's NAI...

I think it's NAI as well, but I'd be tempted to lynch him just for the possible information to be gained in the event of him flipping scum.

the few game-related posts he has so far show an incredibly genuine thought process

i have a fear of impoetic but ill read her correctly in time just because shes an easy read later on in the game. ive got my eye on you

off topic but how to make my signature show up on all my posts????????????????

also accountant is one of those blunt, mean and old players but also town so ill UNVOTE: Accountant

I don't see any thought @ all in these posts. They look like fluff just like the rest of his ISO.

OK here's 1 of those posts. I guess I probably had a negative impression of this post because this post disagreed with my post. There, pr00f'd.

I actually agree with JarJar there. I'd say that there is actually more apparent scum motivation in those 3 sentences than town, regardless of yours and Accountant's alignments.

I'm currently town reading JarJar, so the case against him is going to have to be pretty significant in order for me to change my mind.

[Xkfyu]

Honestly, there has been exactly one post, which occurred very early in the game, that I can point to that has given me any concern whatsoever about JarJar.

[Xkfyu]

In post 1025, Xkfyu wrote:
In post 1023, Accountant wrote:
normally I would agree but I've seen townies say the same shit 3-4 times in other games and they were never scum so it's NAI for me

If they were always town, wouldn't that suggest that it is town-indicative, instead of NAI?

No. Too easy to fake to be a real towntell + 4 games is a small sample size

Fair points.

Don't lymch pacman, he's a terrible lynch for day 1 at leaat

I don't think it's terrible, but I certainly don't think it's great.

We need to lynch someone though, and soon. This game really needs a flip, and I'm pretty sure that the ira lynch isn't happening today.

[Xkfyu]

And @Ira:

The Accountant lynch is not going to happen, either.

[Xkfyu]

I wanna lynch Sonrio but also cool w/ lynching pacman

Would compromise on Tam.

Honestly, I'm not into a Sonrio lynch. I just moved my vote to him (intentionally without reason) to see if I could illicite some reactions from someone, since the last thing I said about that slot was that I was town reading it. It failed, miserably. The only person who even mentioned it was Accountant, just to say that he disagreed with me.

People, reread the TM/Sonrio slot please. It's so Fn scum.

It's been a while since I read TM's ISO, so I'm going to do that now.

[Xkfyu]

People, reread the TM/Sonrio slot please. It's so Fn scum.

I just don't see it, man.

Even though I really don't like TM's obnoxious play style, my town read on him is actually stronger than it was because of the following:

In post 69 he tries to cast some early shade on JaeReed, our IC.

Now, a few things of note:
1: TM's first post was only an hour or so after the start of the game, so he wasn't late.
2: Post 69 was 6 hours after the start of the game. Therefore, there was 5 hours time between the time TM made his first post and the time that he tried to cast shade on JR. Also, TM was actively posting during that 5 hour span.
3: Scum have day chat.

Now, with 3 scum, I don't see how all 3 of them miss the fact that JR is an IC and/or no one mentions it in the scum chat. So, to believe that TM/Sonrio is scum, I think you would have to assume that him casting shade on JR was all staged, and I think that's a stretch.

And Sonrio is completely null to me. Therefore, I'm still town reading the slot.

[Xkfyu]

I'm going back to this

UNVOTE: Sonrio

VOTE: Tam

I have seriously considered the pacman lynch, but I just can't get past how genuine post 228 feels.

[Xkfyu]

I have seriously considered the pacman lynch, but I just can't get past how genuine post 228 feels.

you have got to be joking

I am not.

[Xkfyu]

that post wasn't even that good and could easily be faked

I didn't say it was good. I said it was genuine.

And anything could be faked fairly easily. This is forum mafia, where people have as much time as they want to manufacture a post. That doesn't mean that it

was

faked.

[Xkfyu]

But some notes which 1. Can be faked 2. Could still be genuine and come from scum shouldn't change your mind on a person

The fact it does is highly suspicious.

Like I said, anything can be faked. I'm not going to assume that something is fake, just because it's possible. The simplest answer is that it is indeed genuine. He doesn't seem to have faked any of his other posts.

Besides, I never really changed my mind on him. I'd already said that I was town reading him. I was just tempted to support his lynch. Which I'm surprised that THAT isn't what you find "highly suspicious."

[Xkfyu]

UNVOTE:

I need to catch up to see if I'm comfortable with that.

Hi. Been here long?

[Xkfyu]

I'm NOT willing to lynch Tam before she gets back, even if she is a scum lean.

I'd prefer to wait for a claim as well, but she hasn't posted in almost 2 days.

[Xkfyu]

I'd like to hear people's thoughts (those who haven't given them yet) on the Tam lynch.

[Xkfyu]

But some notes which 1. Can be faked 2. Could still be genuine and come from scum shouldn't change your mind on a person

The fact it does is highly suspicious.

Like I said, anything can be faked. I'm not going to assume that something is fake, just because it's possible. The simplest answer is that it is indeed genuine. He doesn't seem to have faked any of his other posts.

Besides, I never really changed my mind on him. I'd already said that I was town reading him. I was just tempted to support his lynch. Which I'm surprised that THAT isn't what you find "highly suspicious."

No you had him as null. You also were tossing the idea out to possibly lynch him and we're trying to get other people's thoughts. To go from both of those things to not wanting to lynch him at all for that post alone is highly suspicious. I'll ignore the fact you misremembered your read on him.

yes but I read the word scum in your post as town for some reason. Also one scummy post isn't enough for me to determine whether he's most likely to be scum compared to other people;.......

No no. I'm not saying that you believe that.

I'm actually leaning town on him, in fact.

I'm just putting forth a risk vs reward scenario for us to discuss.

The game is starting to become stagnant, so I'm trying to manufacture some thoughts and discussion from people.

I'll ignore the fact that you are skimming.

[Xkfyu]

I'd prefer to wait for a claim as well

Well yeah that's why I put her @ L-1 since that's usually the indicator for someone to claim.

not really. claims should only come when a person is at L-1 and someone is asking for a claim with an intent to hammer. I have seen people at L-1 and not have to claim and still save themselves.

personally I am waiting for tam to answer my question. I think we should at least wait to let them respond

I think we all agree that we should wait.

[Xkfyu]

But some notes which 1. Can be faked 2. Could still be genuine and come from scum shouldn't change your mind on a person

The fact it does is highly suspicious.

Like I said, anything can be faked. I'm not going to assume that something is fake, just because it's possible. The simplest answer is that it is indeed genuine. He doesn't seem to have faked any of his other posts.

Besides, I never really changed my mind on him. I'd already said that I was town reading him. I was just tempted to support his lynch. Which I'm surprised that THAT isn't what you find "highly suspicious."

No you had him as null. You also were tossing the idea out to possibly lynch him and we're trying to get other people's thoughts. To go from both of those things to not wanting to lynch him at all for that post alone is highly suspicious. I'll ignore the fact you misremembered your read on him.

yes but I read the word scum in your post as town for some reason. Also one scummy post isn't enough for me to determine whether he's most likely to be scum compared to other people;.......

No no. I'm not saying that you believe that.

I'm actually leaning town on him, in fact.

I'm just putting forth a risk vs reward scenario for us to discuss.

The game is starting to become stagnant, so I'm trying to manufacture some thoughts and discussion from people.

I'll ignore the fact that you are skimming.

Well I guess I'm confused. When did your null read on him change and why? Cause 10 posts prior you were suggesting lynching him and you certainly wouldn't be suggesting to lynch a town read

I assume that my null read on pacman is in reference to my reads list in post 572, which I just now realized that I talked about 228 in, but apparently forgot to include the link. But I did say that I was wondering if he shouldn't be in my town pile, even then.

Anyways, I can't really point to an exact place where my read officially changed from null to town. Nevertheless, the town read has never been so strong to where I would be shocked to see him flip scum. Hence the willingness to, at least, discuss the possibility of lynching a town read.

Not to mention the fact that I just have don't have enough solid scum reads, which is disconcerting.

[Xkfyu]

Not to mention the fact that I just have don't have enough solid scum reads, which is disconcerting.

Means u should lynch an inactive...like Sonrio

Lol I'd say that Sonrio is more active than Tam though, if only by a little.

[Xkfyu]

I thought jarjardrinks was voting to put pressure on me now its a scumread?

Anyway ive got another person to add to my TOWN CIRCLE

Robbnva
Accountant
Xkfyu

For his reason to unvote me, and his calmness. I like him. Please be town.

Ok, but who do you want to lynch.

[Xkfyu]

Also TAM was never at L-1 he was at L-2

Tam (4): Bacde, JaeReed, MURDERCAT, Impoetic

After this count, Xy and I both voted and I didn't see any unvotes.

He's right, actually. Poetic unvoted in 1019.

[Xkfyu]

Idk ill probably end up on the tam lynch but i dont like jar

Any other reads?

[Xkfyu]

@Impoetic and Sonrio

Do you two have a history together?

[Xkfyu]

Predit: yes. We played Epicmafia for a while and were in the same newbie game, which happens to be my only completed one (my other is ongoing).

Ok yeah, I was getting the impression that you two knew each other from somewhere else.

[Xkfyu]

in reading up, I'm starting to find the ira lynch a decent idea

I'd like to hear people's thoughts (those who haven't given them yet) on the Tam lynch.

Well, I think Tam is slightly town-aligned by play and counterwagon to MURDERCAT and Accountant, who are scum-aligned for sure.

You sure you know what the term "counterwagon" is.

[Xkfyu]

VOTE: Xkfyu

First real scum read. I want this lynched.

Interesting.

[Xkfyu]

in reading up, I'm starting to find the ira lynch a decent idea

I'd like to hear people's thoughts (those who haven't given them yet) on the Tam lynch.

Well, I think Tam is slightly town-aligned by play and counterwagon to MURDERCAT and Accountant, who are scum-aligned for sure.

You sure you know what the term "counterwagon" is.

Should be a question mark at the end of this.

[Xkfyu]

In post 1066, Xkfyu wrote:
I'd like to hear people's thoughts (those who haven't given them yet) on the Tam lynch.

I would too And now I'd also like to hear yours...

You and I have already discussed my reasons.

[Xkfyu]

Since I'm a replacement I figured it would be in poor taste to replace out so I'll play but I'm not really into it atm.

Honestly, and this has nothing against you personally, but I would rather have someone in your slot that is actually into it.

[Xkfyu]

Like can anyone tell me who Sonrio wants to lynch?

Well....I think he wants to lynch you lol.

[Xkfyu]

Those of you not voting, or are the only one voting someone, it's time to pick a side. Either vote for either me or Tam, or start making a case for someone else.

[Xkfyu]

Those of you not voting, or are the only one voting someone, it's time to pick a side. Either vote for either me or Tam, or start making a case for someone else.

this implies that no other cases have been made for other candidates - that someone who wanted to lynch, say, JJD or pac would have to make a case for them. but cases have already been made, and it's a reasonable(though wrong) option to sheep the cases on them.

like, it's simply false to imply that anyone who doesn't want to vote you/tam has to make their own case

Yeah sorry, I could have worded that differently. That's not what I meant to imply.

[Xkfyu]

Fun fact:

More people are are willing to lynch pacman than either of the two lead wagons, yet pacman remains with 0 votes.

[Xkfyu]

Alright

UNVOTE: Tam

VOTE: evilpacman18

Let's see who is really interested.

[Xkfyu]

ive said like 3 times im gonna end up on the tam lynch if she doesnt do anything more since her recent posts didnt do anything to make me think "oh, this is a bad lynch"

i also said i didnt want to lynch jarjar and just thought hes annoying for going someone who like no one else wants

And your thoughts on the pacman lynch?

[Xkfyu]

Tam. She's had the most votes for quite some time now and she doesn't seem to be trying to get them off. Her recent posting didn't sway me (nor anyone) away and she didn't post anymore after that.

Your support for the Tam wagon, coupled with the fact that you have yet to vote anyone, makes me seriously doubt your conviction.

That same conviction was also missing earlier, when you were saying, what I took to mean, that your lynch preference was JarJar.

[Xkfyu]

No but like i dont seriously fos jarjar as his read on TM actually seems fine to me (i never liked the "lynch me or fuck off" type either) but it doesnt really scream scum to me.

Jarjar who else would u lynch if any

xkkkjhgufydyukulkytufvj please. im not voting anyone yet because we have plenty of time left and id rather not vote and then suddenly we have a locked lynch after bc two people decided to change their minds as well

not that its gonna be possible since that would make them incredibly sus but im playing it safe.

i probably missed the pacman posts then ill go read for them

Fair enough on JarJar. I apparently misinterpretted your read on him. That's my mistake.

NOT fair enough, however, on the "we still have plenty of time before deadline" argument. We've had plenty of time already. It's time to make a decision.

[Xkfyu]

But you aren't locked into your vote. Not voting imo is antitown

And this.

[Xkfyu]

Rob, you prefer my lynch over pacman's?

[Xkfyu]

im not as impatient as you all apparently

I'm actually very patient, but patience has nothing to do with it.

This phase has run it's course. It's time to lynch someone.

You sit there talking about how much time we have before deadline and yet, you aren't doing anything whatsoever to make use of that time. You aren't voting, you aren't really talking about your reads.

Sure, you've said that you prefer a Tam lynch but, even if she is scum, there are 2 other scums out there. Who's your top pick for them? Who's your top picks for town?

[Xkfyu]

I thought jarjardrinks was voting to put pressure on me now its a scumread?

Anyway ive got another person to add to my TOWN CIRCLE

Robbnva
Accountant
Xkfyu

For his reason to unvote me, and his calmness. I like him. Please be town.

its as if.................i have no reads at all...........................................

im starting to feel like i should take you off the list, XJ9. 4 days is still a lot of time to decide a lynch and we still have several people voting several others. id like more people talking, especially tam, before i actually decide to make a vote.

@rob i cant play differently?

Sure, you've said that you prefer a Tam lynch but, even if she is scum, there are 2 other scums out there. Who's your top pick for them? Who's your top picks for town?

[Xkfyu]

Quoted too much. You answered the top town picks. Still want to know about the rest of your scum reads.

[Xkfyu]

Blah blah blah

JJD looks better than sonrio now. I think it's VERY interesting that I'm trying to get a lynch going on Xk with some other suspicion on pacman and the wagon on pacman took off but the wagon on Xk didn't. Xk has a BLATANTLY fake read on that slot imo and is very likely scum.

The pacman wagon "took off?" Is that what you're claiming it did when just two people (one of which was me, who is the vote leader, so of course I'm going to vote him) have voted for him?

[Xkfyu]

It took a lot less than what I've been doing which is basically begging people to get onto your wagon.

The difference is that a lot of people are town reading me pretty hard, while no one has a strong town read on pacman.

[Xkfyu]

scum read: Murder and account I don't really want to go into a ton of my reads because most of my reads I go into detail on if i'm really sure on them the town read is something I'm sure on the scum reads are for hey look this is prob scum aka: I think these are scum atm but i'm lazy to tell you why

Hey, ira, you've got a friend.

Yay!

At least one other person can see something which is really quite clear to see in this game...

I support to lynch evilpacman18 over Tam or Xkyfu, I think he is comparatively likely to be scum-aligned but honestly if we are not lynching one of MURDERCAT or Accountant (JaeReed said that we aren't...), I don't expect good chances to lynch anyone scum-aligned.

Will you PLEASE get your vote off Accountant?

You think he's scum, I get that. We all get that. But he isn't getting lynched today. Not by a long shot. Your vote on Accountant is doing no more good than if you weren't voting at all.

[Xkfyu]

Same goes for Tam's vote on the Sonia/Rob/Trivium slot.

[Xkfyu]

honestly tho I don't think anyone is going to change their minds about who to lynch here so let's just wait for the new dude to catch up, state his thoughts and then we try to get a lynch target that isn't absolute shite

So much this.

[Xkfyu]

@Impoetic and Sonrio:

Are you guys Masons?

[Xkfyu]

@Impoetic and Sonrio:

Are you guys Masons?

why the hell would you ask this qn

I'll explain after they answer.

[Xkfyu]

also what exactly is a mason? I thought there was only one mason that had to visit at night to recruit more, but I take it that's not how the role works on this site.

Is that your way of saying that you two are not Masons?

[Xkfyu]

I trust Sonia's townslip though, probably.

Where was his townslip?

Why d'you ask? You promised to explain. <3

It's coming.

[Xkfyu]

I trust Sonia's townslip though, probably.

Where was his townslip?

Her townslip was in not knowing who her predecessor was. I doubt she'd fake that, and I think she would probably know if she was subbed into a maf slot -- wouldn't the name be mentioned in the mafia meeting?

I guess it's a weak townslip. What do you think?

Oh, I actually read "Sonia" as "Sonrio," so that's who I thought you were actually talking about.

Anyways, about Sonia's "townslip," she would obviously know that she subbed into a mafia slot. She would have received a role card from Nahdia, upon replacing in, and probably would have had to confirm her role by replying to the PM, just like we had to do at the beginning of the game. Like you probably also had to do when you replaced in.

Now, that doesn't mean that she didn't know who her predecessor was. My first game on site, I replaced into a scum slot in a newbie game as the vote leader (like, at page 10 or something), and I actually did the exact same thing. There had been 3 people in my slot before me, and I think another couple of slots had been replaced, so it was hard to catch up and keep track of who was who. I actually ended up scum reading a couple of my predecessors pretty hard. I didn't actually quote any posts and say why they were scummy, but I did comment on how scummy they had been and no wonder that I was at L-2 (or whatever it was).

So, it's entirely possible that she isn't faking, and she's still scum. However, 2 minutes after she claimed a scum read on herself, she still "wonders" if she is scum reading her own slot, which is plenty of time to go look and correct herself.

[Xkfyu]

Ok here's my explanation for the Mason question:

First off, we have an IC, so I fairly sure that a Mason group doesn't exist. Otherwise, we would have the opportunity to have 3 confirmed town in D1, which is pretty ridiculous. And even if they are Masons, and I out them, then we have 3 confirmed town on D1, which is pretty ridiculous. So, there was really wasn't any risk involved. That's the reason I went ahead and asked them.

Secondly, let's remember that Impoetic replaced I Am Innocent, and Sonrio replaced Town Mafioso

It may help to have these two links open while you read this
IAI + TM ISO
TM + Impoetic + Sonrio ISO

Spoiler: Posts for reference. Please read. I kept them as brief as possible

20 - 24, in isolation, could very easily be explained away simply by saying it was RVS and they were just joking around, but let's continue.

57: IAI sheeping TM. Again, still in RVS so probably not that big a deal yet.

66: TM town redas IAI for...some reason.

131: TM states a town read on IAI again, but claims it is weak.

627: (Notice the EBWOP in 628) Impoetic mentions, and makes a flippant joke about TM. I really don't get the impression that this was just a random mention from someone who had just replaced in.

636: Impoetic states a "townish lean" on TM.

641: Impoetic is concerned with people no longer townreading TM.

861: Sonrio jokingly makes an excuse to not read Impoetic at the time.

862: Impoetic town reads Sonrio's post? And it's a bit too over-explainy.

997: A pretty ridiculous post from Impoetic about why she's town reading Sonrio.

998: Much of the same from Impoetic here.

1063: "and I would be lynched myself as soon as I let you guys lynch Sonrio d1." Either Impoetic knows Sonrio is town, or she really really wants us to town read him.

1065: Impoetic has Sonrio in her "not going to consider lynching" pile.

1089 - 1101: Useless banter between Impoetic and Sonrio.

1241 - 1246: More banter.

Impoetic's and Sonrio's reads have been equally non-committal, even to the point that they are still both not voting anyone.

So, I really feel like the two slots are connected in this game. If it was just Impoetic and Sonrio, then I could just chalk it up to them having a history outside of this game (which is why I asked about that previously), but there are posts that link the two slots, even before they both replaced in.

They have been acting as though they aren't concerned about each other's alignment at all, but it hasn't felt at all like normal scum/scum interactions. So, like I said, my initial thought was that they are Masons, but I just couldn't see a Mason group and an IC in a game like this. So, I think they are actually scum together. At the very least, I'd say that Impoetic is scum and she knows that Sonrio is town.

[Xkfyu]

Anyway, my point is it's stupid to jump to the conclusion we're mafia together just because we're overly buddy-buddy.

Trust me, I certainly didn't jump to coclusions. I spent all morning (off and on) putting that post together and thinking about it.

First of all, mafia don't buddy like that d1? It's weird behavior.

I know. I mentioned that. It's why a Mason group was the first thing that I thought of.

I didn't pick up on IAI and Mafioso being buddies, and you'll just have to take my word for it when I say I wouldn't have as scum either unless it was specifically pointed out to me by my mafia partners or something.

IAI and TM's interactions are suspicious on their own. Hell, yours and Sonrio's interactions aren't even that suspicious given your history. It's when you look at the whole picture that makes it look suspicious.

[Xkfyu]

I don't know if this will help clear things up or not but let me try and tell you what I'm thinking about

So I replaced someone and I have no idea who that is and I don't know if you guys thought he/she was scummy or towny so my answer will be to read everyone and give my thoughts on scummy/towny posts because if I knew who I replaced I would try to make up a answer for why every post they say is towny even if it looks bad

Why would you even bother trying to justify something your predecessor said or did?

Yes, if your predecessor did some scummy stuff, then you might get lynched for it. Such is the risk you take by replacing into a game. But it's not like you know what your predecessor was thinking, and certainly no one is going to listen to any justification that you try to put forth.

[Xkfyu]

I really wish you hadn't linked me to that scum game of yours, Impoetic. I hate doing meta dives. It's inevitable that one will see exactly what he/she wants to see, which leads to confirmation bias, but I couldn't resist this time.

I honestly don't know how to feel about you, right now. Before I read that other game, I was actually liking your responses to my accusation. But now that I have read the other game, I see that you are perfectly capable of responding to accusations as scum.

[Xkfyu]

Sonrio, what are your thoughts on my post 1345?

[Xkfyu]

The Tam wagon died in way too sketchy of a fashion for it not to be on scum imo

That would imply that you believe that JarJar and I are scum (or at least one of us)? Because one of the unvotes was JaeReed.

55 pages is too long for d1

I agree.

What a surprise Tam's activity dropped to the shitter when the pressure is off

That's actually not accurate. Her last post came when she was at 5 votes, and a significant amount of time had passed before anyone unvoted her.

[Xkfyu]

I know I sound like a broken record, but we aren't ever gonna get any closer to a lynch if people don't start putting their votes somewhere where it actually means something.

[Xkfyu]

The Tam wagon died in way too sketchy of a fashion for it not to be on scum imo

That would imply that you believe that JarJar and I are scum (or at least one of us)? Because one of the unvotes was JaeReed.

55 pages is too long for d1

I agree.

What a surprise Tam's activity dropped to the shitter when the pressure is off

That's actually not accurate. Her last post came when she was at 5 votes, and a significant amount of time had passed before anyone unvoted her.

Actually its perfectly accurate. Her last post is not a good measure of when she became inactive, since she must have been active to make that post. As I see it, back when she had 5 votes she was posting, and now when she has less she isn't. This isn't that complicated and I don't appreciate you trying to obfuscate the truth.

How else would you measure when she became inactive, if not by her last post? You certainly can't say that she was active anytime AFTER that.

Besides, there was also a long stretch of time, when she was on 4 and 5 votes, where she wasn't posting as well. So, your point about her inactive periods coming while there is no pressure on her is invalid anyways.

That would imply that you believe that JarJar and I are scum (or at least one of us)? Because one of the unvotes was JaeReed.

This isn't true at all

Note how support for and discussion of the Tam wagon just seems to have died

No one is even talking about it anymore

People who weren't on the wagon were still talking about it, and now no one is.

There is a significant portion of people here (scum) who have stopped talking about Tam in hopes the issue will disappear

Perhaps I'm just being pedantic, but "The Tam wagon died" (what you said before) is inherently different from "Support for and discussion of the Tam wagon just seems to have died" (what you've just said).

[Xkfyu]

There's no way this game is as simple as Jarjar, Xkfyu, and Tam all being mafia but thats how I feel right now

I thought that's not what you were implying?

[Xkfyu]

How else would you measure when she became inactive, if not by her last post? You certainly can't say that she was active anytime AFTER that.

No shit? I'm saying she was inactive after that. We are agreeing about this apparently so why are you arguing with me?

Actually, there wasn't nearly as long of a time after she went inactive before JaeReed unvoted her as I thought there was. I was thinking there was like 12 hours, but there were only 2 or 3. So, you might have a point there.

She WAS inactive for a very long time while she was on 4 and 5 votes, though.

Regardless, I'm still fine with lynching Tam. I just wanted to test the conviction of those who stated willingness to lynch pacman.

[Xkfyu]

In fact,

UNVOTE: evilpacman18

VOTE: Tam

There you go.

[Xkfyu]

You messed that all up, girl.

You're right. Sorry, just woke up... should be fixed.

[Xkfyu]

You're right. Sorry, just woke up... should be fixed.

Lol it's not. You have Accountant voting twice. His vote is on Tam.

Also, isn't it's ira's vote on Accountant?

[Xkfyu]

Sonia, are you caught up yet?

[Xkfyu]

I don't think my reads are very good and I'm being totally feckless about them so there's that. I know from my first game this comes off as ate/wanting to not be held accountable for reads, but it's really true. If I really had confidence in either of my scumleans, I would be pushing.

Tam has been a lynch candidate for a LONG time now. Why do you think it's so difficult to get her wagon to gain any serious traction?

[Xkfyu]

If pac got lynched I wouldn't cry about it but anyone other than Tam or maybe pac is a bad lynch for today imo

That's how I feel as well. I was actually leaning slight town on him, so I really expected the pacman lynch to take off, once JarJar and I both switched over to him, but we got absolutely nothing.

[Xkfyu]

You know what would be really cool?

If ira, Sonrio, pacman, and Tam actually used their votes.

Have I mentioned this already?

[Xkfyu]

Why did you ignore my question, Impoetic?

[Xkfyu]

I don't think my reads are very good and I'm being totally feckless about them so there's that. I know from my first game this comes off as ate/wanting to not be held accountable for reads, but it's really true. If I really had confidence in either of my scumleans, I would be pushing.

Tam has been a lynch candidate for a LONG time now. Why do you think it's so difficult to get her wagon to gain any serious traction?

[Xkfyu]

A couple of things to note if Tam is scum:

1. The only people who have not voted for Tam at this point are pacman, ira, and Sonrio.
2. The Trivium/Rob/Sonia slot was on the Tam wagon, and jumped off it once the votes started to pile on. Now, Rob was the one who did the unvote, and it appeared to be simply because he had just replaced in. However, even though he constantly has Tam in his scum pile (even saying that Tam is the one most likely to be lynched today), he kept his vote on me, and Sonia hasn't shown any interest whatsoever in moving that vote, even though she appears to be scum reading only MC, Accountant, and.....herself apparently.

We've talked about how hard it's been to get traction on the Tam lynch. Do not ignore all of this in the event that Tam flips scum.

[Xkfyu]

Oh right, I was gonna answer that but got sidetracked when I noticed Jarjar's annoying cliché of a post and quoted it to rant.

I haven't noticed that it's necessarily any harder than I would expect for it to gain traction; she writes like a good player regardless of alignment and players like her are players I normally hesitate to lynch, myself, although I clearly am not this time. I don't have much experience in forum mafia but I would think it'd be more true, if anything, that people who have an air of skill about them are less likely to be wagoned. She was on 4-5 players several times, and all the other wagons have been about the same, I thought.

Frankly, I feel like

all

the assertions about

all

the wagons are going straight over my head.

It could also be because she's scum, though. I certainly hope it is...........

Well, I can tell you this much. This is probably the hardest D1 lynch that I have ever been a part of.

[Xkfyu]

If I vote Tam will it be a hammer?
Sorry for inaction, I know it's not helping anyone townread me but I agree with the Tam lynch and can close it out if it needs it

Tam is on 4 votes, right now. Your vote would put her on L-2.

[Xkfyu]

@Nahdia

I'll be V/LA for the weekend.

Noted.

[Xkfyu]

But I WILL be around. So, don't think we aren't still doing this lynch thing.

[Xkfyu]

If pac got lynched I wouldn't cry about it but anyone other than Tam or maybe pac is a bad lynch for today imo

That's how I feel as well. I was actually leaning slight town on him, so I really expected the pacman lynch to take off, once JarJar and I both switched over to him, but we got absolutely nothing.

You were voting someone you felt slightly town about?

Yup

[Xkfyu]

I'll switch back to pacman if needed.

[Xkfyu]

Though, if we do lynch pacman, and he flips town, I'm calling for a vig on Tam.

[Xkfyu]

That is absolutely not what is happening to pacman.

[Xkfyu]

Bacde, I thought you were fine with a pacman lynch? Wasn't your lynch preference Tam, pacman, and myself?

[Xkfyu]

Oops no, it wasn't. You were poking fun at ira.

[Xkfyu]

Bacde, I thought you were fine with a pacman lynch? Wasn't your lynch preference Tam, pacman, and myself?

Tam, Jarjar, pacman is like meh lynch but it could be worse

What JarJar? I don't remember you mentioning him as a lynch possibility.

[Xkfyu]

Why JarJar*

[Xkfyu]

Remember we already know Tam's role isn't something useful since she didn't claim in anger earlier and we have no idea about evilpacman tbh

Wait, what? So you were pressuring me in the hopes that I was a useful town role and would out myself? Why would I have done that?

VOTE: Evilpacman I welcome a vig tonight if you lot will let me live. Then when I'm confirmed town you'll listen more to me. I think a lot of why you think I'm sus is because of playing style. A lot has changed about the rules and the way you guys interact compared to back when I played.

That's not at all what Bacde was saying.

Also, what exactly are we supposed to be listening to you about? What are your reads?

[Xkfyu]

What's the vote count?

Tam 6, pacman 5?

[Xkfyu]

Damn scum really selling theirself out with this last minute counterwagon on me.

Who specifically are you referring to?

Probably murdercat and either you or ira

If Tam is scum, wouldn't you expect that her buddies would have jumped at the chance to get on your wagon when JarJar and I initially voted you though? Like, 4 or 5 days ago?

[Xkfyu]

LOL JAR please sit the fk down that's me saying pac is a better lynch but I won't refuse to hammer tam I just assume no one is gonna flip there vote within the next few hours

Oh no you don't. Don't try to make it sound like you have no other option other than to hammer Tam.

[Xkfyu]

If Sonia was shot by a vig, there is only ONE legitimate reason that I can think of that Sonia was shot over Tam.

Whoever shot Sonia needs to claim immediately, and give your reasons. Otherwise, I'm going to assume it was a SK shot.

[Xkfyu]

If Sonia was shot by a vig, there is only ONE legitimate reason that I can think of that Sonia was shot over Tam.

Whoever shot Sonia needs to claim immediately, and give your reasons. Otherwise, I'm going to assume it was a SK shot.

Highly unlikely that it's SK

1) setup claims there are 9 town and 3 mafia roles, exactly. As there were 12 players at the start, this leaves no room for an SK.

2) 3 mafia + 1 sk + 8 town is horribly unbalanced

3) sonia is not a good shot for an SK. she wasn't townread, nor did she have strong or convincing reads. There's honestly no reason to shoot sonia over an obvious target like jaereed or MCAT.

Yep, your right about #1 and #2. Good call. I completely forgot that this was a normal game.

I could argue against #3, but it would be pointless because it has to be a vig.

And given that, I think it's even more prudent for the vig to claim, since (now that I realize that this is a normal game) I'm guessing that it is no more than a 2-shot vig, and another confirmed town would be a pretty big help right now.

I can still only think of one reasonable reason as to why Tam wasn't shot, but I'll wait for the claim.

[Xkfyu]

Just cause I'm feeling lazy and don't feel like arguing against the IC and his self-appointed conftown:

claim gunsmith

.

Targeted impoetic and she has no gun.

A gunsmith would show any of the mafia members as having a gun, right?

[Xkfyu]

Except a Scum Doctor

Gotcha.

[Xkfyu]

So, even if I didn't believe your claim, Impoetic is almost certainly town.

[Xkfyu]

so we have jae and impoetic as conftown. vig can claim for a fourth conftown, jjd is semi-confirmed.

I should take this opportunity to point out that if jjd's claim is real we would have follower, innocent child, vig and gunsmith in the same game, which is a pretty heavy list. I highly doubt there's a 5th power role, so if someone else that is not the vig claims, it should be treated as acounterclaim to jjd; hence, if there's someone who is a power role but isn't vig and is still unclaimed, they should claim now and we can lynch jjd.

Agree with all of this.

[Xkfyu]

I don't want to pull a triv and say I solved the game, but I kind of did

Perhaps, but I think it's premature.

There are a couple of assumptions that you've made that I am not quite prepared to accept as fact. Not without more information, anyways.

I think I actually have an idea as to who the vig is, but I'm gonna wait for the claim before I say more.

[Xkfyu]

What are the assumptions xk?

As soon as we get the vig claim, I'll explain.

[Xkfyu]

also I'm of the mindset that vig shouldn't claim unless they're actually highly scumread, in which case they should go ahead and do what xkfyu is saying.

The vig should absolutely claim, regardless. The difference between being confirmed town and not being a scum read is huge.

Plus, it doesn't matter. They are more than likely out of shots now (or, at most, only have one shot left), anyways. So, not claiming is just unnecessarily hiding information at this point.

[Xkfyu]

Ok, you got there.

[Xkfyu]

A two shot vig who suspects mafia roleblocker might not claim, but that's the only situations where a vig wouldn't claim today.

Ok good point.

[Xkfyu]

But, I still think it's worth it to have the extra confirmed town.

[Xkfyu]

At this point, our advantage lies in our number of confirmed townies. We need to keep that number high.

[Xkfyu]

Anyways, there is no telling how long we'll have to wait for this, so I'm gonna go ahead and say it.

I think Tam is actually the vig. It's the only possible way that I see that Tam doesn't draw the vig shot. Don't forget also, that she claimed to "welcome" the vig shot. I originally thought that it was because she was scum and, based on her and her buddies roles, she was pretty confident that there wasn't a vig, or that they had a Mafia Doctor.

If I'm wrong though, the real vig needs to correct me immediately, because she either is the vig and I won't vote her, or she isn't the vig, and I won't be voting anyone else.

So, I'm still basically waiting on the vig claim to decide on who I'm voting. If Tam is the vig, then I want to lynch Sonrio.

[Xkfyu]

there's also ira, but eh

I don't think it's ira. I doubt he would come out and defend his own vig shot, without claiming it first.

[Xkfyu]

Why not, Accountant?

Call it gut. I thought she was mafia from day 1 and nothing she has done has changed that

I completely agree with your point that she hasn't done anything to warrant a town read. The only thing that saves her in my eyes is the vig claim. Otherwise, she's getting lynched.

Hopefully, we'll find out soon.

[Xkfyu]

@Ira

If I'm wrong, and you are actually the vig, you could save us all a bunch of time if you would just go ahead and claim.

There's no telling how long it'll be before Tam comes back to the thread.

[Xkfyu]

i swear if "tam, the mafia," ends up getting subbed out

It's not really hard to figure out. If no one claims the vig shot, then it's Tam. If so, then we just lynch that slot.

[Xkfyu]

We aren't lynching anyone until we either get that vig claim, or both Sonrio and Tam have checked in and confirmed that they are somehow not the vig.

It was like pulling teeth to get you guys to lynch in D1, when we severely needed a flip, and now, when we actually NEED to wait for more information, you guys want to speed lynch.

[Xkfyu]

Accountant, Murder, Impo are my townbloc.

JJD claim is pretty town.

Tam obvious mafia at this point.
I'd wager Sonrio is mafia too.
Last scum in Xk/Iraon.

Follow this when I die, even if I'm wrong on one. The whole scumteam is in {Tam, Sonio, Xk, Iraon} do not bother to lynch outside of this.

Take a look at this.

Sonrio votes Tam here:

okay goodbye VOTE: Tam i suggest you claim before sonia hammers

and here is the vote count at the time:

Votecount 1.27

Tam (5):

Bacde, Accountant, Impoetic, Xkfyu, evilpacman18

evilpacman18 (4):

JarJarDrinks, MURDERCAT, JaeReed, iraonavp

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio, Tam, xSoniaNevermindx

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-07-18 18:00:00)

If Tam and Sonrio are buddies, then I gotta think that Sonrio votes for pacman here, instead of Tam.

I don't think they are both scum.

[Xkfyu]

I see

You guys want Tam to claim to get more information about her role.

In that case, I know a fullproof way to get her alignment and exact role, confirmed by the mod.

Hint: it involves lynching her

At this point, we just need a claim from either Tam or Sonrio. That will answer the question as to who the vig is.

The one who isn't the vig gets lynched.

[Xkfyu]

Well sonrio painted herself in a corner w/ this post:
In post 1526, Sonrio wrote:
i was reading earlier and forgot to post but i townread pacman and tam still posted nothing that screams town to me so.....im going to vote her, but id like her to claim.

She didn't really leave herself the option of voting Pac.

Hmm fair point.

I still think Sonrio could have gotten away with voting pacman, but it does make me less confident about them not being buddies.

[Xkfyu]

Why is everyone believing what JJD claims? Is it not possible for him to still be scum? I've seen like no one question him after his claim and he was probably about to be speedlynched at the start of the day

Question him, then.

[Xkfyu]

So either Tam is the vig, or the extra kill came from some sort of scum.

You guys on the Tam wagon betting on the latter?

[Xkfyu]

So either Tam is the vig, or the extra kill came from some sort of scum.

You guys on the Tam wagon betting on the latter?

It's possible that there's a real vig that is keeping quiet. I'd actually put that as more likely than scum making that kill.

I guess.

I really expected a vig to be a 1-Shot, though. Two, at the most.

[Xkfyu]

So either Tam is the vig, or the extra kill came from some sort of scum.

You guys on the Tam wagon betting on the latter?

It's possible that there's a real vig that is keeping quiet. I'd actually put that as more likely than scum making that kill.

Ok ok yeah.

If she was the vig, surely she would have claimed while she online yesterday.

I'm ready to lynch her now.

VOTE: Tam

[Xkfyu]

I don't see how it can hurt to wait a day

Like a game day, or a 24 hour day?

[Xkfyu]

UNVOTE: Tam

Ok. We can wait.

[Xkfyu]

Not voting outside of Son, Xk, iraon today.

If you still have me in your lynch pool, then you aren't thinking yesterday's events through...at all.

[Xkfyu]

Why do you think scum has a doc considering I was merely one shot, as was JJD?

He inno'd Impoetic, who is pretty town in her own right so not overly useful.

JJD was a gunsmith, not a cop. Normally the difference between cops and gsmiths comes from false positives caused by vigs or false negatives caused by scum docs. If there's no vig or scum doc, there's no point having a gsmith.

Since vig was a target the smith would never investigate, it follows there has to be a scum doc or else nahdia might as well have made jjd a regular cop.

This is spot on, and has to be the case.

Unfortunately, that means that, even though I still think Impoetic is town, she can't be completely cleared from JarJar's result.

[Xkfyu]

Not voting outside of Son, Xk, iraon today.

If you still have me in your lynch pool, then you aren't thinking yesterday's events through...at all.

Yesterday's events Xk's ISO style:

HEY TAM CLAIM VIG
TAM CLAIM VIG EITHER 1 SHOT AT MOST 2
TAM CLAIM VIG
ANY VIG NOT TAM NEEDS TO CLAIM SO I CAN SHOOT THEM

Like I said, you still aren't thinking it through. Stop thinking about it so superficial and go a little deeper. Don't forget that Genji did actually fake claim vig, and that scum have day chat.

[Xkfyu]

@JaeReed and Accountant:

I don't see anyone but ira being lynched today, so I really just need to know one thing.

If ira flips town, are you guys willing to seriously consider that MC could actually be scum?

[Xkfyu]

Xk your last post seemed to strongly imply that you think MURDER is scum. Tell me more about this.

It's all process of elimination, and completely null if ira does flip scum. Here's what is bothering me though, about ira being scum.

If ira is scum, his continued push on you and MC makes no sense. He's one lynch away from being in LyLo, and he's obviously going to be a lynch candidate today. So, why try to push the IC's two biggest confirmed towns, instead of pushing either Sonrio, or myself (we can't both be his remaining scum buddy), when both of us have had suspicions on us in the past. Why go for the hardest possible lynches at such a critical time, insead of going for the easier mislynch, unless he genuinely believes that you guys are scum?

Now, in no way do I believe that you are scum. So, the last two scum must be in ira, Sonrio, MC, and Impoetic. So, if ira is town, then it has to be the case that at least one of MC and Impoetic are scum.

[Xkfyu]

So, we're just waiting on ira's claim then?

[Xkfyu]

I'm tempted to agree.

He hasn't been posting on the site at all though, so I'm willing to wait a little longer.

[Xkfyu]

I put in effort into that meme and you didn't even give me a half hearted "kek"

You are this close to being policy lynched tomorrow young man

Lol if it makes you feel any better, I did audibly chuckle when I saw it.

[Xkfyu]

And I'm at work right now, with people in cubicles right next to me.

[Xkfyu]

Haha YES!

[Xkfyu]

Alright guys, wanna get this out before the thread is locked.

Regardless of ira's flip, I fully believe Accountant is town. The rest is dependent on ira's alignment.

If ira flips town, then it's two out of {Impoetic, Sonrio, and MC}. I'd lean slightly towards the Sonrio/MC combo based on JJD's result on Impoetic, but only slightly.

If he flips scum, then I'm not really worried, because I'm sure you guys will finish this just fine. Nevertheless, I think the last scum has to be Sonrio.

[Xkfyu]

Well that's....interesting.

[Xkfyu]

I don't know. I feel like we're missing something.

[Xkfyu]

I want to hear from Impoetic and Sonrio first before we lynch anyone.

[Xkfyu]

Maybe last scum forgot to submit? Unless someone wants to claim? I feel pretty confident there should be more PRs.

Why do you say that? I was actually feeling pretty confident that there weren't anymore town PRs.

[Xkfyu]

What did you wanna hear me say?

Just something. Anything really. Just didn't want to lynch before we heard from people.

Also I don't see how you were only slightly leaning murder/sonrio over that report because it would be a huge coincidence for scum doctor to be investigated by town 1-shot GS in a closed-roles setup, right?

The fact is that there has to be a Mafia Doctor, based on Accountant's logic chain (which I completely agree with) after JarJar's result claim, and with the only two scum flips both flipping goons, that makes the probability of you being scum now just as likely as the rest of us. Therefore, your statistical argument is invalid. Had one of those scum flipped Doctor then, of course, you would be cleared town right now. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.

That being said, that is speaking from a strictly statistical standpoint, and ignoring my town read on you, which still remains.

I'm assuming that role doesn't kill

You're assumption is wrong. From this rule,

By default, scum players may use their role abilities and their factional kill on the same night.

we know that a Mafia Doctor could have used their factional kill, and protected someone on any night.

It'd be more suspicious if it weren't for the "I wanna get this out before hammer" part, though.

It was "before the thread was locked." The hammer had already dropped.

[Xkfyu]

I'm getting caught up from the weekend. I'll post my thoughts shortly.

[Xkfyu]

Ok time for a little VCA.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.17

Votecount 1.17

Tam

(4):

Bacde

,

JaeReed

, MURDERCAT, Impoetic

Robbnva

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

iraonavp

(1):

Accountant

evilpacman18

(1):

JarJarDrinks

Not Voting (4):

Robbnva

,

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

, Xkfyu

This was right after Robbnva replaced Trivium. I had been scum reading Trvium, until I saw his confirmation bias, causing me to town read him.

Accountant was voting ira, while Tam was the vote leader. If scum Accountant wanted to distance from a buddy, he could have just voted Tam, instead of ifa. That makes me think Accountant is town with a legitimate scum read on ira.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.18

Votecount 1.18

Tam

(4):

Bacde

,

JaeReed

, MURDERCAT, Impoetic

Sonrio

(2):

JarJarDrinks

, Xkfyu

Robbnva

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

iraonavp

(1):

Accountant

Not Voting (3):

Robbnva

,

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

Pretty much the same as above, except JarJar and I were both voting Sonrio. Accountant still probably town. Which means that one of MURDERCAT and Impoetic are on the Tam wagon for the bus.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.19

Votecount 1.19

Tam

(4):

Bacde

,

JaeReed

, Xkfyu,

JarJarDrinks

Robbnva

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

iraonavp

(1):

Accountant

Not Voting (5):

Robbnva

,

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

, Impoetic, MURDERCAT

Before this VC, JarJar and I both move back to Tam in posts 1052 and 1054 respectively, putting her on L-1. MC immediately unvotes Tam in 1057, and Impoetic unvotes in 1063.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.20

Votecount 1.20

Tam

(5):

Bacde

,

JaeReed

, Xkfyu,

JarJarDrinks

, Accountant

Xkfyu (1):

MURDERCAT

Robbnva

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (4):

Robbnva

,

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

, Impoetic

MC starts the counter wagon on me, knowing that JR would follow him and that Rob was fine with lynching me.

Accountant has now moved to Tam, but ira stays on Accountant. Again, this move looks genuine to me. The fact that ira didn't vote Tam suggests that scum weren't trying to bus here.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.21

Votecount 1.21

Tam

(4):

Bacde

, Xkfyu,

JarJarDrinks

, Accountant

Xkfyu (3):

MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

Robbnva

Robbnva

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

, Impoetic

JR and Rob have now voted me, and I'm a serious counter wagon to Tam.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.22

Votecount 1.22

Xkfyu (3):

MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

xSoniaNevermindx

Tam

(2):

Bacde

, Accountant

evilpacman18

(2):

Xkfyu,

JarJarDrinks

xSoniaNevermindx

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

, Impoetic

JarJar and I are voting pacman now, giving the vote lead to me. I started that move to see who was really willing to switch (explained in 1376). I moved back to Tam in the following post.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.23

Votecount 1.23

Tam

(4):

Bacde

, Accountant, Impoetic, Xkfyu

Xkfyu (3):

MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

xSoniaNevermindx

evilpacman18

(1):

JarJarDrinks

xSoniaNevermindx

(1):

Tam

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (2):

Sonrio

,

evilpacman18

I'm back to voting Tam, but I'm still the coutner wagon to Tam.

Spoiler: Votecounts 1.24 and 1.25

VCs 1.24 and 1.25 are unchanged from VC 1.23, except for that Tam unvoted Sonia.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.26

Votecount 1.26

Tam

(5):

Bacde

, Accountant, Impoetic, Xkfyu,

evilpacman18

Xkfyu (3):

MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

xSoniaNevermindx

evilpacman18

(1):

JarJarDrinks

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (2):

Sonrio

,

Tam

Pacman has voted Tam. At this point, Tam and i have been the only major wagons for a long while. I really can't imagine that NO scum has been on my wagon, but we know that neither Tam nor ira ever voted me. This really makes me think that MC is scum.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.27

Votecount 1.27

Tam

(5):

Bacde

, Accountant, Impoetic, Xkfyu,

evilpacman18

evilpacman18

(4):

JarJarDrinks

, MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

iraonavp

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio

,

Tam

,

xSoniaNevermindx

There is no further interest in lynching me, so MC follows JarJar onto pacman, with JR following him, along with ira.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.28

Votecount 1.28

Tam

(6):

Bacde

, Accountant, Impoetic, Xkfyu,

evilpacman18

,

Sonrio

evilpacman18

(5):

JarJarDrinks

, MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

iraonavp

,

Tam

Not Voting (1):

xSoniaNevermindx

And now Tam.

Spoiler: Votecount 1.29

Votecount 1.29:

evilpacman18

(7):

JarJarDrinks

, MURDERCAT,

JaeReed

,

iraonavp

,

Tam

, Impoetic,

xSoniaNevermindx

Tam

(5):

Bacde

, Accountant, Xkfyu,

evilpacman18

,

Sonrio

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

And then Sonia hammers. This final D1 vote count still leads me to believe that Accountant is town, and that either MC or Impoetic are scum. I'm going with MC.

He was fine to vote for Tam earlier, but once she got to L-1, he was really pushing for someone else to be lynched, other than her.

[Xkfyu]

VCA for D2.

Spoiler: Votecount 2.01

Votecount 2.01

Tam

(2):

Accountant,

JaeReed

JarJarDrinks

(2):

Impoetic, MURDERCAT

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (4):

JarJarDrinks

,

Sonrio

, Xkfyu,

Tam

Tam is obviously getting another wagon in D2, after pacman flips town. Again, we see MC trying to avoid that wagon.

Spoiler: Votecount 2.02

Votecount 2.02

Tam

(3):

Accountant,

JaeReed

, Impoetic

JarJarDrinks

(1):

MURDERCAT

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (4):

JarJarDrinks

,

Sonrio

, Xkfyu,

Tam

You could have said, after that last VC, that Impoetic was also avoiding the Tam wagon, but we see here that Impoetic moves to Tam fairly easily, making Tam the vote leader.

Spoiler: Votecount 2.03

Votecount 2.03

Genji

(2):

Accountant,

JaeReed

Xkfyu (1):

Genji

Sonrio

(1):

JarJarDrinks

JarJarDrinks

(1):

MURDERCAT

Accountant (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio

, Xkfyu, Impoetic

Genji has replaced Tam. Accountant still voting for Genji, and MC still on JarJar.

Spoiler: Votecount 2.04

Votecount 2.04

Genji

(4):

Accountant,

JaeReed

,

JarJarDrinks

,

iraonavp

Xkfyu (1):

Genji

JarJarDrinks

(1):

MURDERCAT

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio

, Xkfyu, Impoetic

Ira has moved to Genji. Obviously to get the town credits.

Spoiler: Votecount 2.05

Votecount 2.05

Genji

(5):

Accountant,

JaeReed

,

JarJarDrinks

,

iraonavp

,

Genji

JarJarDrinks

(1):

MURDERCAT

Not Voting (3):

Sonrio

, Xkfyu, Impoetic

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Now, here's what is really scary. Genji self hammers here. Why do that in this situation? If you're gonna give up and self hammer as scum, then why not let your scum buddy hammer to at least try and win some town credit?

The answer could simply be that all her buddies were already on her wagon. This is the first thing that I have seen that makes me suspect Accountant. However, if he's scum, then all of the "ira is definitely scum" stuff was nothing more than one enormous bus.

I'm pretty sure that it isn't Impoetic now. So, it has to be one of the two heavily town read players. Is it MC, who avoided the Tam/Genji wagon (possibly the most obvious choice), or is it the least obvious choice, Accountant, which would mean that he hard bussed both of his buddies for the first 3 day phases?

[Xkfyu]

Now, here's what is really scary. Genji self hammers here. Why do that in this situation? If you're gonna give up and self hammer as scum, then why not let your scum buddy hammer to at least try and win some town credit?

The answer could simply be that all her buddies were already on her wagon

Traditionally scum self hammer to cut short day and deny information to town doing VCAs. Also at that point Genji was such a goner that any towncred from hammering him was approximately 0

I don't disagree with you. There was very little town credit to be had, especially since JR counter claimed him.

I just know that if I had been Genji, I would have just told my remaining buddy hammer me, instead of doing it myself. Similarly, had I been Genji's buddy, I would have taken the opportunity to hammer him myself, instead of letting him do it.

Like I said though, it's the only real thing that I can point to that makes me suspicious of you. I'm still leaning heavily towards MC being the last scum.

[Xkfyu]

Accountant you are all but confirmed. If we no lynch today you will die, so I think we should just go for it. You are driving this thing now though.

If Accountant is town, he is definitely gonna die tonight, regardless of whether we lynch or not. No lynching really isn't an option, though.

Xk and Impo, please post your best evidence that the other one is scum and go ahead and claim too for good measure. Reasons you can't be scum with Tam/Ira will also be accepted.

I'll gladly answer any questions from anyone, but I won't town case myself. No one should ever listen to someone town casing themselves.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Impoetic is town. So, I'm not going to manufacture some fake scum case on her.

The irony of this post is that you clearly said that Accountant is in the driver's seat, while simultaneously trying to take the lead by putting forth Impoetic and I as the only two lynch candidates for today.

[Xkfyu]

If Accountant is town, he is definitely gonna die tonight, regardless of whether we lynch or not.

Does this imply you don't think we'll lynch scum since you said I'm dead whether or not we lynch and if we lynch scum I'll win without dying

Did I really need to include the implied statement "unless we lynch scum" in that sentence? Seems a bit silly.

[Xkfyu]

Re: VC 1.21: how can you claim you’re a serious counterwagon due to two votes from confirmed townies? If MCAT wanted to create a counterwagon, why would they have even voted that slot before anyone else did? The optimal move would be to latch onto Tam or Ira’s votes, assuming there wasn’t an obvious indicator of intent from robb/Jae beforehand. (I know nothing about VCA so correct me if I’m wrong, all.)

How can you claim that I'm not? One of those confirmed towns (JR) was just sheeping MC at the time, and MC knew that.

Also, re: VC 2.05:
I realize you’re way more into this vote count analysis thing than I as of yet but I find it hard to believe that’s “really scary” to you when you’re also fairly confident in Accountant being town (or project yourself to be such). It’s a single move by scum that is actually a meta I’ve read about before and you probably have too. This game is now 80 pages long and there’s not even any dialogue outside of the vote count that could flesh out your “scare.”

That's the only thing that scared me at all about Accountant. Everything else has pointed to him being town. It's "scary" because I know I would have let my buddy hammer me in that situation, and if Accountant is scum, then there is no way that we win this game.

And this was related to what I wanted to say yesterday, IIRC, but where does your TR on me actually come from?

My town read on you comes from your posts.

[Xkfyu]

I want to lynch Xkfyu. His arguments didn't significantly sway my opinion

I really have no problems with being lynched. I knew full well that that was likely going to happen today, as it's the next logical step coming from a town mindset.

Just remember this in D6

Accountant you are all but confirmed. If we no lynch today you will die, so I think we should just go for it. You are driving this thing now though.

Xk and Impo, please post your best evidence that the other one is scum and go ahead and claim too for good measure. Reasons you can't be scum with Tam/Ira will also be accepted.

FWIW, I'm feeling very confident we are going to win this.

Notice here that MC really doesn't care who is lynched. It's plain to see that, between Impoetic and I, the one with the worst evidence against the other one will be his lynch target today.

So, let's not delay this any longer than need be. Either vote with me, or vote against me.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[Xkfyu]

Uhhhhhh xkfyu are you aware this is mylo

Shit, you're right. We're 4, not 5.

[Xkfyu]

Uhhhhhh xkfyu are you aware this is mylo

That makes my point about MC even stronger though, and perfectly explains why he doesn't care which one of us is lynched.

Plus, he's been buddying you really hard the last 2 day phases.

[Xkfyu]

MC stop hiding. Come out of the shadows and push who you want lynched.

You are against a No Lynch, so a town you really should care who is lynched.

[Xkfyu]

Plus, he's been buddying you really hard the last 2 day phases.

Tell me more

Accountant is a god, just saying.

I'm inclined to just role with Accountant for the rest of this game.

Accountant you are all but confirmed. If we no lynch today you will die, so I think we should just go for it. You are driving this thing now though.

Xk and Impo, please post your best evidence that the other one is scum and go ahead and claim too for good measure. Reasons you can't be scum with Tam/Ira will also be accepted.

FWIW, I'm feeling very confident we are going to win this.

You really haven't noticed?

[Xkfyu]

Accountant, do you really think I was bussing Tam the entire time?

[Xkfyu]

JaeReed said similar though and he was town.

Re: bussing tam, it's a point in your favor, but not so strong that I'd be willing to flip completely and lynch CAT

How about MC's total avoidance of the Tam wagon once she got close to being lynched?

[Xkfyu]

Once I knew you were right and I was wrong I sheeped you onto Ira no question so

Once you knew the two most townie players in the game were going to lynch him, you mean.

VOTE: iraonvp

Lol he was just one shot. I was one shot.

Hopefully for those better at setup spec than I am that'll clear up what roles scum might have.

Not voting outside of Son, Xk, iraon today.

VOTE: Iraon

This is now a liability even if he's town.

P-edit: Actually yeah nah he's defs scum.

VOTE: ira

I'm gunna roll with you guys.

TOWN BLOCK..... ASSEMBLE!!!

[Xkfyu]

You know MC, I never could figure out why ira came out in D3 immediately pushing you and Accountant as scum. It's why I thought he was town. Neither of those lynched could have gone through. So, it would have been suicide for him, as scum, to push your lynches. It would have made much more sense to push for Sonrio's lynch, or even mine. Of course, simple scum distancing is a valid explanation.

[Xkfyu]

I actually don't think ira's tunnelling targets is at all relevant. From what I saw he basically just hard tunnelled the first two people to vote him, and spent the next two days saying "acct and cat are scum" in a variety of ways which basically let him hide and do nothing. That push on D3 was just a continuation of the BS that we let him get away with D1 and D2

If that's all it was, don't you think he would have targeted you, instead of MC there?

Yes, he tunneled both you and MC the first two day, but look at the vote counts for D1 and D2. It's nothing but him voting you. Why suddenly switch it to MC in D3?

Do you really think it's because he thought it would be easier to lynch MC than you, with JR seeing MC as basically confirmed town?

[Xkfyu]

Okay hold up at this point I'm going to do a serious serious ISO of murdercat

While you do that, please pay particular attention to this:

UNVOTE:

I need to catch up to see if I'm comfortable with that.

Notice how he hadn't posted for almost an entire 24 hours prior to this post, but shows up to unvote Tam just two minutes after JJD puts her on L-1.

I noticed his convenient timing then, and posted this:

UNVOTE:

I need to catch up to see if I'm comfortable with that.

Hi. Been here long?

to which he never responded.

Shortly thereafter, he starts the wagon up on me claiming "vibes."

[Xkfyu]

2 votes vs. whatever was on Tam when MC could have joined one of his partners no problem, right? 1 mafia and 1 town does not a counterwagon make, and the third town there came afterwards. I should also like to point out it was Pacman that was actually lynched, not you, even though I don't remember any real reason for the wagon on you to be less effective than the one on pacman? Then again, my memory is the worst of anyone I've met so like.

It's not necessarily the number of votes that matter, it's the timing of the wagon. Finish reading this page, particularly my 2017, and you'll see what I mean.

The fact that it's the *only* thing that bothered you is why I think this logic which just looks a bit too convoluted and not like something that would cause a visceral reaction. I myself would never see it that way if I weren't predisposed to being worried about Accountant, and I wouldn't really doubt my conviction over that alone even if I did think that was an obvious way of looking at it. It's possible that's just a difference in mindset, but I feel that it could also be a scumtell.

Here's an explanation as to what spurred that thought process.

When I play scum, I'm very tactical minded. So, when I see scum hammer themselves, I think that it doesn't make tactical sense for scum to hammer themselves if there is even a slight chance that their buddy could hammer them and get any town credits, no matter how small.

Lmao I might steal that answer sometime if you don't mind.

I was actually looking for you to show your thought process -- i.e. how my posts are towny, when you decided I was towny, etc.

I can see how that could look flippant, but I really didn't mean for it to, but I'm not going to quote every post that you made and explain why I think it's town. The general feel I get from your posts is that you are town. You have not shown any kind of agenda at all, and that's not something I can say about MC.

Yes, the No Gun result from JJD certainly helped, but the fact of the matter is, when I posted that it's either MC/ira or you/ira, those were the only two possibilities, and I couldn't ignore the fact that there must be a Mafia Doctor in the setup, and it could have been you.

[Xkfyu]

This game requires a full reread, I'll get to it.

huh?

I thought you were feeling confident we were going to win this and certain you could lynch in me and Xkfyu w/o problem, and wanted us to give our best arguments.

Also your "feeling pretty confident we're going to win this" just went from a towntell to a mild scumtell in my eyes. or at least NAI. I've honestly been sheeping jae on you all this time and probably need to iso you now because xkfyu and accountant have succeeded in freaking me out. I think accountant's still probably town.

I don't understand why you suddenly seem to be viewing the stakes as higher. You did know it was MYLO, unlike xk or me, and you were happy not to reread when asking us to give arguments. I hate to say all that because it's like I'm complaining that you're trying to find scum which is not what I want to do but I don't understand where you're coming from and would like more exposition. I don't mind the fact that you're rereading; I mind the fact that I don't know where your reread is coming from.

Did I say that OK?

You said it perfectly, and I've touched on the very same thing.

His confidence in winning this game by lynching one of us doesn't coincide with his utter lack of concern about which one of us is lynched.

[Xkfyu]

Damn great game Accountant.

Told you that Genji self hammer was scary.

[Xkfyu]

But if you hadn't been already on the wagon, you would have just hammered yourself. That was the point I was making.

[Xkfyu]

I agree with you that your hard bus was the better play.

All I'm saying is that if there was scum not already on Genji's wagon, and you wanted the day shortened to give town less time, then there is no reason for Genji to self hammer when his buddy could just do it instead.

No matter how small (or dubious) the town credits from hammering scum were, there was no reason not to at least try to salvage something from a scum lynch.

[Xkfyu]

In general, I think you're right, especially when getting close to deadline, but you don't normally see scum hammer their buddies so early on in the day.