Mini 1811 [Game Over]

[iraonavp]

Hi, everyone!

VOTE: evilpacman18

[iraonavp]

What?

I'm town-aligned, but I am trging to wagon. I don't see how that could possibly be a bad thing...

[iraonavp]

That's precisely why I voted evilpacman18, to move the game forward and maybe learn something.

A better question would be: why aren't you voting evilpacman18? I think you should..

[iraonavp]

Well, the faster wagons form the more serious things get in my opinion. You can move the game forward in multiple ways clearly.

It seems like you're trying to force this conversation, if I were you I'd just vote evilpacman18 and wait for more people to check in.

[iraonavp]

Hydra?

Are hydras allowed in this?

No, you can't have hydras in normal games.

[iraonavp]

Are you sure? What made you make that vote?

I think that Trivium is slightly town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Are you sure? What made you make that vote?

I think that Trivium is slightly town-aligned.

On what grounds?

He sounds like he thinks he knows what he's doing.

I don't understand what prompted your response in 30, could you explain?

[iraonavp]

Should I be reading you as scum-aligned?

I don't understand what your problem with me is, or what "appeal" is.

And it is a good reason to read you as town-aligned! It means that you are to some extent confident and self-assured, which in my experience is a town-aligned trait. In any case, I'm town-aligned and I don't see how "having bad reasons" would make me scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

iraonavp how many games have you played?

I have 7 completed games on this site, I have played some more on other sites.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: iraonavp
Don't like voting the same person in RVS
Don't like the way he responded to pressure
Don't like how he casually mentioned his town-read on me

None of those are scum-aligned at all, you just described things that I did!

VOTE: Iraonvp

I think I will always think you are scum in every game. Let's wagon this so I can get a read here please.

You're saying that you think I appear scum-aligned in this game, yet you're voting me under the pretense of trying to get a read on me. That's a scum-aligned way of reasoning a vote, kind of.

It's not exactly that, but there's something about the way this post is phrased that I really don't like.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[iraonavp]

VOTE: iraonavp

Wagon, yo. Also, don't like early townreads with no real basis. Generally comes from scum.

That's a really simplistic way of looking at things. My read on Trivium does have basis.

It's not even a strong read, I hate how I'm being forced to defend something that was just an offhand vague feeling in the first place.

[iraonavp]

If its a scumtell vote me.

Based on what you said in 61 you dont support a lynch on your current vote.

Stop hindering my way of getting an early game townbloc

Early game townbloc is the stupidest idea since the backwards toilet paper roll. Sure, it would be nice, but you don't know who's town and who's not. Or at least, you shouldn't. Also, please back up your statements with reasoning and stuff. VOTE: Mafioso

Do you actually think this makes Town Mafioso scum-aligned?

If you think it's a stupid idea, why is it more likely to come from a scum-aligned player than a town-aligned player? Scum-aligned players aren't just going to openly pursue things that are anti-town in the thread the majority of the time, I hope you realize this.

These questions aren't entirely rhetorical, I'm having trouble working you out.

Personally I don't really care about the idea but I think the way it was presented is town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

What about my play so far is suspicious?

It's almost like you're using my meta as an excuse to vote me.

[iraonavp]

It's like there's a disconnect between what MURDERCAT thinks and what he posts.

If he thinks I appear scum-aligned regardless of my alignment, he wouldn't say I looked suspicious, he would say I looked null.

[iraonavp]

This is a normal game, it isn't real and I doubt your immediate reaction to that is to claim that you're town-aligned.

That's trying to fake a town-aligned result to the "reaction test".

[iraonavp]

UNVOTE: Town Mafioso Purely because of the amount he's posted. I don't think at this point it's very likely that maf would post so much in the beginning.

Disregarding this, are you still reading his play as scum-aligned?

This is a trivial (ha) reason to unvote someone.

[iraonavp]

Holy shit are you for real? Like how are you twisting my words this much as town.

VOTE: JJD

Mafioso, do you know me?

The way this is phrased sounds like he knows that JarJarDrinks is town-aligned, look, he's basically expressing anger towards JarJarDrinks being misrepresentative, not him being scum-aligned. There's no reason for him to be upset if he actually thinks JarJarDrinks is scum-aligned anyway, he would think that he's a scum-aligned player trying to lynch him and not be bothered by it.

MURDERCAT is scum-aligned and "caught for the wrong reasons". His outrage at being accused is genuine, but only made more so by the fact that he is scum-aligned. He actually thinks that JarJarDrinks' argument is stupid, yet in his eyes it infuriatingly comes to the correct conclusion.

[iraonavp]

$5 says both iraonavp and murdercat are town

I don't trust this. You haven't explained how you came to this conclusion, and if you were scum-aligned with MURDERCAT it would be easier to just read him and me as town-aligned together than to just say that MURDERCAT is town-aligned. You already said I was town-aligned, so I don't see why it's even necessary to mention me here.

Otherwise I feel like you have been vaguely town-aligned so far, but I'm wary of that because you seem experienced.

[iraonavp]

How am I doing that? I doubt there is evidence to support this claim because I don't feel at all like I'm helpless or being excessively tunneled...

I don't have time to read the rest of this, I'll post tomorrow.

[iraonavp]

@iraon: That's a ridiculous case. Of course MCAT would be cheesed off if he thought scum!JJD was twisting his words to get him lynched. This is an example of what I mean when I say scum likes to justify their shit with tons of made up logic.

I don't see how? If you think they're scum-aligned then you understand why they're doing it, it's not like they're really dumb and stubborn or something.

That's not even the main point of what I wrote.

MURDERCAT literally said "how are you being so misrepresentative as town"!

[iraonavp]

Oh, the site is back up!

[iraonavp]

Don't play word games. You and I both know what he meant.

I don't think we have the same idea about what he meant...

I already explained what I thought MUDERCAT meant.

[iraonavp]

Jar is town wtf
No mafia member sits at his computer and writes a post like #46 and clicks submit. Mafia members love to try to look town and reasoned and back up all their reads with long chains of fake reasoning. Like if Jar was mafia he wouldn't blatantly sheep like that, he'd come up with his own story and then vote iraon

This is also basically why I think TM is town.

This is very scum-aligned.

It's using WIFOM logic to read someone as town-aligned, because he knows that JarJarDrinks is town-aligned and what he sees reinforces this to him, even though it is null.

I don't have a read on JarJarDrinks currently, but if Accountant is scum-aligned then he is very likely town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Yeah, iraon is scum, everything about him screams fake to me. Pushing on MURDER is easy, plus I feel like he's only interested in defending himself and doesn't want to engage.

VOTE: iraonvp

That's stupid, and makes the assumption that MURDERCAT is town-aligned, which he probably isn't...

Literally the entire thing I have been doing this game is trying to make reads, I'm not only interested in defending myself!

[iraonavp]

you realize you're basing a strong read on a 2nd page post right??

Townslip is townslip no matter what page it's on

"townslip" is just ridiculous, put this in context!

VOTE: iraonavp

I dont like those things either.

"townslip" is when someone slips information that confirms them as town-aligned, not just someone who votes without reasoning!

I don't even see how voting someone without reasoning would even be town-aligned at all. What you said is 100% WIFOM.

Your defense of JarJarDrinks is obscene and you are scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

basically iraonvp is playing exactly like someone I would push for an easy lynch if I was mafia so I'm just assuming he's town and finding the more likely mafias

I don't like this attitude towards me. It's like you are trying to avoid pushing me because it will make you look suspicious for taking the easy target or something.

[iraonavp]

That's a weird way of spelling MURDERCAT

Though just because someone is an easy push for hypothetical mafia doesn't mean their town

This doesn't sound like you are really so confident I'm scum-aligned if you also think "easy push" implies you acknowledge that I am naturally suspicious.

"easy push" doesn't even mean anything realistically. It's just WIFOM and you can easily read people through that.

[iraonavp]

I thought I already explained that...

Because he already knows that JJD is town-aligned, and the WIFOM reasons he uses are confirmation bias. Because saying that voting without reasons is a "townslip" is just ridiculous.

[iraonavp]

What exactly is this townslip people are talking about.

Remember when JJD was sheeping you without giving reasons? That's a townslip. Mafia has an obsession with justifying everything they do and giving long lists of reasons for doing stuff. That doesn't mean that people who justify themselves excessively are mafia, but it does mean that people who don't are town. I feel like a mafia JJD would have come up with a better reason than "sheep lol" in order to look good, which is another thing mafia are obsessed with.

Read this, it's ridiculous!

[iraonavp]

What do you want? You just keep insisting that you are correct without reasoning that I am wrong, it doesn't change anything.

Obviously you are not scum-aligned because you are innocent child but your opinions don't have any more value because of this.

[iraonavp]

Ok, but what if Accountant is town? Can it make sense for Accountant to be town and believe that JJD's post was a town post? Like you are kind of just saying words. Prove to me that only scum could believe that is a town post. Explain why Accountant's reasoning is bad please.

Maybe, but I doubt it. Little is certain in this game.

[iraonavp]

I don't understand how I could quote someone without taking it out of context...

[iraonavp]

Ok, but what if Accountant is town? Can it make sense for Accountant to be town and believe that JJD's post was a town post? Like you are kind of just saying words. Prove to me that only scum could believe that is a town post. Explain why Accountant's reasoning is bad please.

Also, this isn't talking so someone who you think is scum-aligned.

This is talking to someone you know is town-aligned and you are trying to convince them to change your mind about reading your partner. No reason to try and change my mind if MURDERCAT already thinks I am town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

No. Don't write off that post.

"Prove to me that only scum could believe that is a town post. Explain why Accountant's reasoning is bad please."

I never claimed that I could objectively 100% prove any claim I made and this ridiculous strawman only convinces me further that you are scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

I already explained why Accountant's belief makes him more likely to be scum-aligned, and now you're just saying "prove he's confirmed scum though!!".

[iraonavp]

Because JJD just sheeped a vote without reasoning, anyone can and in my experience often does do this, especially during RVS, regardless of their alignment.

[iraonavp]

Ira you are doing literally the same thing you're accusing Murdercat of doing. You're talking to him like he's town.

All you're doing is making noise that is easy to shut down. You took the post out of context not because of the quote but the way you were pretending like Accountant was talking about their own reasoning with the easy lynch stuff. Accountant was talking to someone else who made that point and you twisted it to make it seem like it was Accountant's view.

No I'm not... If I don't answer him then he will continue to spam rhetoric and people will start listening to him, apparently you already trust him.

No I didn't. Accountant was talking about Bacde's read on me, I know. I don't think you read my post properly.

[iraonavp]

"Mafia has an obsession with justifying everything they do and giving long lists of reasons for doing stuff. That doesn't mean that people who justify themselves excessively are mafia, but it does mean that people who don't are town. I feel like a mafia JJD would have come up with a better reason than "sheep lol" in order to look good, which is another thing mafia are obsessed with."

Why is that wrong iraonavp.

It's wrong because it's not true...

[iraonavp]

why don't you think it's true

I literally just said at the top of the page. You obviously don't care about my answer and are just trying to make me look bad.

[iraonavp]

Obviously you are not scum-aligned because you are innocent child but your opinions don't have any more value because of this.

Incorrect. My opinions are guaranteed to come from a town perspective. I just confirmed that my mindset was the exact same as Accountant's when reading JJD's towntell. That means that Accountant had the same mindset as I did when they noted that. This puts Accountant in a more favourable light and discounts your reasoning as to why Accountant is scummy for thinking it's a towntell because the confirmed town believed it to be a towntell, too.

If you genuinely believe that someone sheeping a vote makes them confirmed as town-aligned, then you are delusional. I think you are lying about your opinion because you want evidence to justify opinions that you have already stated so it makes you feel more right.

[iraonavp]

That's a weird way of spelling MURDERCAT

Though just because someone is an easy push for hypothetical mafia doesn't mean their town

This doesn't sound like you are really so confident I'm scum-aligned if you also think "easy push" implies you acknowledge that I am naturally suspicious.

"easy push" doesn't even mean anything realistically. It's just WIFOM and you can easily read people through that.

I did read this post.

You said Accountant is not confident you're scum aligned because Accountant literally said "just because someone is an easy push for hypothetical mafia doesn't mean their town". This shows the

exact opposite

of what you're trying to say it does. Accountant believes regardless of you being lynchbait or not that you are mafia. Accountant has a scumread on you regardless of you being lynchbait.

The two statements aren't related.

Accountant has not previously acknowledged anything about this before and just agrees with Bacde, like "oh yeah he's naturally suspicious but not necessarily town".

[iraonavp]

No, you said anyone can sheep. You have not directly answered my question though. Do you think that mafia is more likely to provide reasoning than town or not?

No.

[iraonavp]

Why not. Doesn't that make sense? Don't you think that scum is more likely to try to blend in? Don't you think it looks townie when you provide reasoning for your opinions?

No, I don't think that obviously in response to the first question. The second and third questions are strawmen.

You don't really care about the answers to your repetitive questioning. Please stop talking to me so I can actually read the thread, I keep getting distracted.

[iraonavp]

Obviously you are not scum-aligned because you are innocent child but your opinions don't have any more value because of this.

Incorrect. My opinions are guaranteed to come from a town perspective. I just confirmed that my mindset was the exact same as Accountant's when reading JJD's towntell. That means that Accountant had the same mindset as I did when they noted that. This puts Accountant in a more favourable light and discounts your reasoning as to why Accountant is scummy for thinking it's a towntell because the confirmed town believed it to be a towntell, too.

If you genuinely believe that someone sheeping a vote makes them confirmed as town-aligned, then you are delusional. I think you are lying about your opinion because you want evidence to justify opinions that you have already stated so it makes you feel more right.

I have literally no reason to lie about my opinion. It doesn't make them confirmed but it does give a strong town lean. By that stage it wasn't RVS, also. At least the way I was reading the thread.

Accountant said that it was a townslip, which means he is confirmed as town-aligned.

Lots of people lie about their opinion in this game, even if they're town-aligned. You have no good reason to lie about it, sure.

[iraonavp]

I already did, multiple times.

Look at how MURDERCAT never does this to Bacde, even though as I read now Bacde is saying basically the same thing that I said here.

MUDERCAT is just jumping down my throat in some imitation town-aligned aggression, but he never even bothers to read my responses.

[iraonavp]

If ira actually townslips I might vote triv :^) Although then it wouldnt be for the association any more

How could I townslip if I was scum-aligned?

[iraonavp]

Don't you think that scum is more likely to try to blend in? Don't you think it looks townie when you provide reasoning for your opinions?

Yes. Yes.

[iraonavp]

Obviously you are not scum-aligned because you are innocent child but your opinions don't have any more value because of this.

Incorrect. My opinions are guaranteed to come from a town perspective. I just confirmed that my mindset was the exact same as Accountant's when reading JJD's towntell. That means that Accountant had the same mindset as I did when they noted that. This puts Accountant in a more favourable light and discounts your reasoning as to why Accountant is scummy for thinking it's a towntell because the confirmed town believed it to be a towntell, too.

If you genuinely believe that someone sheeping a vote makes them confirmed as town-aligned, then you are delusional. I think you are lying about your opinion because you want evidence to justify opinions that you have already stated so it makes you feel more right.

I have literally no reason to lie about my opinion. It doesn't make them confirmed but it does give a strong town lean. By that stage it wasn't RVS, also. At least the way I was reading the thread.

Accountant said that it was a townslip, which means he is confirmed as town-aligned.

Lots of people lie about their opinion in this game, even if they're town-aligned. You have no good reason to lie about it, sure.

If I have no good reason to lie about it then I am likely not telling a lie. Just because you don't like my theory doesn't mean I have reason to lie about it. I want a town win as much as the rest of town.

Accountant calling it a townslip instead of a towntell is really irrelevant. It's obvious what was meant. You're jumping on the wording rather than the intent and that's why you're getting pushed.

Fine, severely strong town-aligned read, no real difference. The point that I took issue with was the strength of the read, not the way he worded it!

[iraonavp]

So, in your opinion, is scum more likely to post reasoning?

No.

[iraonavp]

Well, his basis apparently was that I sounded like I knew what I was doing. First of all I don't, and second of all that's not a town tell. Scum would come up with something like this to get somebody to stop pressuring them, whereas town wouldn't be trying to get people off of them that way. However, I don't believe that that's enough of a basis to lynch someone for. I think based on how fast this wagon formed, there's probably scum on it.

Yup, that's his "basis" and it's not something to townread someone for. You had posts by that point which I would have accepted as reasons to townread you. Instead he came back with something NAI and more personality related. Hence, no real basis. The wagon came about for pressure on the slot, not to lynch him.

It was a slight read and it is a good basis to read someone as town-aligned. Confidence is alignment indicative...

We clearly don't think in the same way and I see that you're being difficult to deal with.

[iraonavp]

If this:

Don't you think that scum is more likely to try to blend in? Don't you think it looks townie when you provide reasoning for your opinions?

Yes. Yes.

Why:

So, in your opinion, is scum more likely to post reasoning?

No.

No.

[iraonavp]

That is not an answer. If scum is more likely to try to blend in and it looks townie when you provide reasoning, why is scum not more likely to provide reasoning?

Because it's clear WIFOM. If that was the case, then it wouldn't look town-aligned. Then if that was the case, it would look town-aligned. And so on. It's really simple to understand, if you were town-aligned and not just pretending to be stubborn you would've gotten it by now. JaeReed I don't have such expectations of now.

You never even explicitly agreed with what Accountant said, you're just trying to make me look bad and defend Accountant because I accused both of you and you know I will react poorly to pressure. It's so obvious that those questions were set up to try and draw to this conclusion.

JaeReed, you think both the players who are most likely scum-aligned are town-aligned, and you think I'm scum-aligned. Just horrible...

[iraonavp]

Iraon is dodging like hell. I mean wow it seems like he has the ability to ignore everything all the time. Sorry if I don't quite understand what just went down because I didn't read a lot of it, but I can see iraon dodging every question that comes to him. I've seen it before coming from flustered town though, and I think the last 2 pages were just a WIFOM bomb. I'm not sure what to make of this.

No, I answered every question I can. It's just that MURDERCAT pretends like I didn't answer the question and asks it again, to create the illusion that I am being evasive.

Iraon, I expect you to answer that, don't think you can come back on tomorrow and ignore it.

Like, this is completely out of place. I already answered myself literally 3 times before when he asked the same thing, he's just trying to make it look like I didn't answer when I already did.

[iraonavp]

Don't engage with iraon, he knows he's caught and is jamming up the thread with pages of evasive bs and accusing everyone who jumps on him.

No, that's just what you're saying so nobody changes their mind and you lose your position. If I was really scum-aligned then you wouldn't need to tell other people to ignore me, it's just you're afraid that what I'm saying will get through to enough people and you will lose your mislynch.

[iraonavp]

Notice how by abusing obfuscating stupidity ira has completely managed to avoid giving any opinions on the re-read/catch-up he is supposedly doing.

I still haven't read up properly yet, people keep posting and it distracts me. I have done some reading up however.

Because it's clear WIFOM. If that was the case, then it wouldn't look town-aligned. Then if that was the case, it would look town-aligned. And so on. It's really simple to understand, if you were town-aligned and not just pretending to be stubborn you would've gotten it by now. JaeReed I don't have such expectations of now.

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS WIFOM DUDE

Even in that case people would just say both town and mafia give reasoning so its null. This is absolutely terrible reasoning. Why do you not expect jae to understand but murdercat has to understand your shoddy reasoning or else hes scum??

Yes, it is null, that's what I said so many times already!

Because JaeReed is town-aligned but is accidentally playing to help the scum-aligned players.

[iraonavp]

No, I answered every question I can. It's just that MURDERCAT pretends like I didn't answer the question and asks it again, to create the illusion that I am being evasive.

Except jae also thinks the same. Is jae also mafia contributing to the illusion? Holy shit your arguments are downright absurd

You do realize JaeReed is innocent child...

You and MURDERCAT are scum-aligned trying to make me look bad. JaeReed is just mislead.

[iraonavp]

You never even explicitly agreed with what Accountant said, you're just trying to make me look bad and defend Accountant because I accused both of you and you know I will react poorly to pressure. It's so obvious that those questions were set up to try and draw to this conclusion.

Hue hue hue poor me i react poorly to pressure, if you see me do anything bad its because of this and totally not because im scum hue hue hue

What?

[iraonavp]

Actually, not sure on Mafioso being town. The insistence that Triv is dumb town pings me in a large way.

See, you are just saying anyone who disagrees with you is scum-aligned, but you're actually the one who's wrong because of previous fragile opinions.

I think that Town Mafioso is somewhat town-aligned, anyway. Probably my strongest town-aligned read other than JaeReed, I don't have many town-aligned reads yet.

[iraonavp]

Don't engage with iraon, he knows he's caught and is jamming up the thread with pages of evasive bs and accusing everyone who jumps on him.

No, that's just what you're saying so nobody changes their mind and you lose your position. If I was really scum-aligned then you wouldn't need to tell other people to ignore me, it's just you're afraid that what I'm saying will get through to enough people and you will lose your mislynch.

Yeah OK this is a load of bull. Also I'm confused about what's going on and I want to get rid of the confusion so.
VOTE: iraonvp
Give a solid response to the question murdercat asked you. You have like 4 people all saying the same thing, and one of them is the IC.

I did already explain why, several times. You are clearly confused and not reading properly.

Only three people are saying that, and two of them are scum-aligned... That's a bad reason to vote me.

[iraonavp]

Yes, it is null, that's what I said so many times already!

then if you know giving reasoning is a standard and ordinary thing to do then it only makes sense that not giving reasoning is a pretty strong clue about someones alignment yeah?

No, because it's WIFOM.

That doesn't even make sense.

You are just messing with me now to find things to criticize me about, you already showed that you understood before.

[iraonavp]

Don't engage with iraon, he knows he's caught and is jamming up the thread with pages of evasive bs and accusing everyone who jumps on him.

No, that's just what you're saying so nobody changes their mind and you lose your position. If I was really scum-aligned then you wouldn't need to tell other people to ignore me, it's just you're afraid that what I'm saying will get through to enough people and you will lose your mislynch.

Yeah OK this is a load of bull. Also I'm confused about what's going on and I want to get rid of the confusion so.
VOTE: iraonvp
Give a solid response to the question murdercat asked you. You have like 4 people all saying the same thing, and one of them is the IC.

I did already explain why, several times. You are clearly confused and not reading properly.

Only three people are saying that, and two of them are scum-aligned... That's a bad reason to vote me.

Holy shit first of all it's four, I'm asking you to as well, and second of all answer the fucking question.

I answered several times, most recently in 466.

[iraonavp]

No, I answered every question I can. It's just that MURDERCAT pretends like I didn't answer the question and asks it again, to create the illusion that I am being evasive.

Except jae also thinks the same. Is jae also mafia contributing to the illusion? Holy shit your arguments are downright absurd

You do realize JaeReed is innocent child...

You and MURDERCAT are scum-aligned trying to make me look bad. JaeReed is just mislead.

No, this s the most ironic post I've seen. You're scum trying to make them look bad, and you're trying to also do it to the IC.

No I'm town-aligned! I already said I know JaeReed is innocent child, that's impossible.

[iraonavp]

I dunno maybe he wasn't quite dodging or anything like that... I think that was just an inability to answer the question because of miscommunication.

You sound a lot like you're scum unsure whether to bus or save your partner right now dude

You are no longer one of my representatives. I thought he looked like gleeful scum.

How would you expect scum to react to the back and forth with Ira if Ira was indeed town? Because if I had to point a finger at anything to describe it it'd be what Trivium posted around that time.

They are reacting to the back and forth by starting it and trying to lynch me...

I clearly answered MURDERCAT's question, then he kept asking it in different ways and acted all aggressive about it, he didn't really want to know my answer, he wanted to bait me into responding. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. And Accountant is just fueling the fire, trying to lynch me.

[iraonavp]

How would you expect scum to react to the back and forth with Ira if Ira was indeed town? Because if I had to point a finger at anything to describe it it'd be what Trivium posted around that time.

"Hey guys, I'll be busy for the next day so I won't be around to post much. [insert previously established strong read] is still town/scum." then sit back and watch ira dig his own grave

See, look! MURDERCAT probably told Accountant in the mafia chat that if I was accused that I would dig my own grave, how would Accountant know that I usually get mislynched otherwise?

[iraonavp]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

This is an extremely scum-aligned post and even if I wasn't reading MURDERCAT as scum-aligned already I would be.

He doesn't really think that he's obviously town-aligned, this is early day 1 and multiple people have been trying to lynch him. It's entirely bluster...

[iraonavp]

How would you expect scum to react to the back and forth with Ira if Ira was indeed town? Because if I had to point a finger at anything to describe it it'd be what Trivium posted around that time.

"Hey guys, I'll be busy for the next day so I won't be around to post much. [insert previously established strong read] is still town/scum." then sit back and watch ira dig his own grave

See, look! MURDERCAT probably told Accountant in the mafia chat that if I was accused that I would dig my own grave, how would Accountant know that I usually get mislynched otherwise?

This is paranoia, but it's reaching paranoia. Scummy paranoia. Aware that the mafia have daychat paranoia.

Yes, they do have day talk...

It's not paranoid, this is actually what they did.

[iraonavp]

At this point I frankly wouldnt be surprised if ira tried to pusb a theory about this being secretly a bastard game and jae is the mafia IC. It wouldn't be any sillier than his other theories tbh

Oh god im doing the thing I said not to do, gonna pop out now before he drags me into a 50 page gandalf wall of re-read blocking

No, obviously I wouldn't say that. Stop misrepresenting me, my other posts are not silly.

[iraonavp]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

This is an extremely scum-aligned post and even if I wasn't reading MURDERCAT as scum-aligned already I would be.

He doesn't really think that he's obviously town-aligned, this is early day 1 and multiple people have been trying to lynch him. It's entirely bluster...

Let's try this again. What evidence do you have that makes you think I don't really think I'm obviously town-aligned?

You voted me under the pretense of trying to get a better read on me when voting me does nothing.
You faked a response to the fake dayvig by saying that you were town-aligned when you knew for certain that it didn't exist, there was no point to say that you were town-aligned.
You repeatedly attempted to make me look suspicious by asking questions while not caring about their answers, then pretending as if I evaded the question. It was a pretty good trick, it tricked Trivium at least.
Other people were voting you and found you suspicious.

This isn't what you'd say if you were town-aligned, you would just shrug it off if you were that confident in yourself.

[iraonavp]

Here's the thing Iraon, your posts don't make sense. The questions I asked were actually all legitimate attempts to understand you position. When you just say things like "look at this it's ridiculous" that's not enough for me to know if you are town or scum. Understanding

why

you think it is ridiculous is what I need from you. I see you think it's wifom, but do you really think that scum is going to act scummy to wifom? Isn't scum's goal to try to look townie?

My posts make perfect sense and I explained it so many times...

You absolutely could not have failed to understand my simple position and had to request me to repeat myself so many times because you actually didn't understand. It was all for show.

[iraonavp]

Actually, not sure on Mafioso being town. The insistence that Triv is dumb town pings me in a large way.

See, you are just saying anyone who disagrees with you is scum-aligned, but you're actually the one who's wrong because of previous fragile opinions.

I think that Town Mafioso is somewhat town-aligned, anyway. Probably my strongest town-aligned read other than JaeReed, I don't have many town-aligned reads yet.

1) Incorrect. I am saying people who just handwave a super scummy looking person as "dumb town" ping me because that's an easy way to give an opinion on your partner who is under pressure without flat out defending them.

That's literally what Accountant did, and not at all what Town Mafioso did. So I'm not sure what your point is.

You've been trying to discredit the confirmed town for a while now, which comes across as completely scummy, if you must know. If you think I'm wrong then engage with me on why I'm wrong with actual reasons that aren't just "hurr you're wrong I'm right even though my cursory not-quite-answers to Murder actually support your theory and not mine because WIFOM". Guess what? I can do that too. Occam's razor. The simple explanation is often the correct one. Simple explanations?

You have done nothing but give glib comments like "MURDERCAT is town", I actually explained myself much more. I need to make you realize that you're wrong otherwise I'll get lynched and the scum-aligned players will get away. The explanation is only simple in that case because MURDERCAT and Accountant made the other explanation prohibitively complex to understand.

JJD is town because he's not trying to look town and instead trying to scumhunt and apply pressure where it's needed.
Accountant is town for having the exact same thought process as me, the confirmed town.
Murder is town because my experience with Murder tells me he's town.
I can throw what you're doing with your WIFOM argument right back at you by using a different one.
2) You look like lost town with your lack of townreads... and I still want to lynch you because at this stage you're noisy and cluttering the thread with the most useless posts I have ever seen come from town OR mafia.

It's because they are useless because they repeat the same thing, because I am asked the same question again and again.

[iraonavp]

Man I have too many. Even MC is looking better to me lately.

Lol I'm obv town and you know it

NO. NOT THIS. ANYTHING BUT THIS.

I need to elaborate on this because I really want to drive the message home- Don't say you're obvious town. Last game I played we had a mafia member constantly assert they were obvious town until everybody just believed them, and I don't want the fact that the IC thinks you're town to create a scum win for you. I townread you, but don't do this.

Exactly, it's usually scum-aligned. I saw a player do this in a game I played before as well: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7675815.

[iraonavp]

Triv, I am town because I am actively trying to solve the game. I am pressuring Ira, but not being opportunistic about pushing him. I am handing him branches to give him a way out if he is town. I am remaining open minded, while still making my opinions clear. That is why I am obviously town.

You are extremely opportunistic about pushing me.

It's clear you were just looking for an opportunity to attack me because as soon as I post the first time you leap at me with rhetoric and stubbornness. You never had a problem with Bacde having a similar stance, and my responses were completely reasonable.

Before this you had a strange and contradictory read on me.

Look at this, how can he call himself open-minded when he is deliberately pretending not to see something very simple and nitpicking it when if could never be relevant anyway...

[iraonavp]

I think I am innocent is slightly scum-aligned, and I think Town Mafioso is slightly town-aligned.

I'm not sure about evilpacman, Bacde or Tam yet. I think Xkfyu and JarJarDrinks are slightly town-aligned.

I think Trivium is town-aligned, I don't want to lynch him!

I think MURDERCAT and Accountant are scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Good luck town

LOL way to screw over whoever comes into this slot

What is that supposed to mean?

Do you think I am Innocent is scum-aligned?

[iraonavp]

ira are you literally just scumreading whoever pushes you because that is lazy scum play and you should be ashamed

What?

No, it's just convenient that two scum-aligned players are accusing me (which usually happens in games I play somehow...), and actually I said MURDERCAT was scum-aligned then he was the one who started accusing me!

[iraonavp]

how wrong you are

This is such a pointless comment to make...

If you were town-aligned and actually thought that I am scum-aligned, you wouldn't even need to say this because you would have actual reasons. It's just there for appearance's sake to slander me.

[iraonavp]

I don't really follow this back and forth as well as I'd like to, but I do still feel like Iraon is being misunderstood/intentionally ignored. I have to agree that he seemed to have answered your question repeatedly, and you just kept claiming he didn't and asking him to answer again. Maybe change the question to get a different result?

I don't understand where Murdercat is coming up with this confirmed townie label so suddenly. Are you being facetious? Or serious?

Yes, that's pretty much what happened...

MURDERCAT said it to make himself look more town-aligned, the only times that people say that is either if they are town-aligned and read as town-aligned by everyone, or if they are scum-aligned and trying to just talk nonsense and hope people will get confused by the WIFOM of "why would he say that if he was scum-aligned??".

[iraonavp]

I never said I was confirmed...

You said "obvtown" and it's the same thing, you know what he meant. This is just twisting words and semantic distractions like you did before.

[iraonavp]

It's the truth tho ira

Another example of exactly what I mean!

[iraonavp]

It's clearly not the truth and I have always maintained this, that's such a stupid argument... You're just trying to distract me, this conversation is entirely useless.

[iraonavp]

I know.

This is just twisting words and semantic distractions like

you

did before.

[iraonavp]

Yes, because you are saying that I am scum-aligned and that both MURDERCAT and Accountant are town-aligned, when if you were sensible you would be able to see that it isn't the case rather than just making broad statements and appealing to your role as if it gives your opinions validity...

[iraonavp]

Well he has to try or else he'd have to admit that the people pushing him have a legitimate point

See, even look at this one post.

Accountant is trying to establish common ground with you and be seen "on your side", so he can manipulate you further (like how he has already done...). There is no other purpose of this post.

[iraonavp]

It's not a dichotomy and your attempts to present it as one are telling.

[iraonavp]

I didn't get a chance to reply to that if I even was going to because you and Accountant are pushing me around, what is your problem seriously.

[iraonavp]

robb you and I operate on such different wavelengths that it's gonna be super hard to work with you

this post was really towny (unless rob flips scum I guess)

I disagree and I think it's a very null post, it bothers me that you are so polarized with "really" and I think you could be scum-aligned with Accountant trying to read him as town-aligned as possible, hoping that people just disregard it with WIFOM.

I also thought that Impoetic was scum-aligned beforehand for another reason while I was reading through, but I'll have to look back to find what it is.

[iraonavp]

Wow, in a nutshell, no Robb, I posted a few times EXACTLY why I voted. I thought the others's reasons were okay, but pointed out that it was Trivium's reactions to the whole thing that made me vote him. I then tried really hard to help him out, thinking maybe he was a townie who was misunderstood, as I have been in that spot before and it's frustrating. (I said ALL OF THIS BTW. I'm not sure why you guys are saying I never gave my reasons.) You also say, in the post directly after the one you say i am sus in, that you are most suspicious of people who lurked while Trivium was under fire..I was right in the spotlight, trying to figure this all out. Can you explain this further? Because there were only like 3 of us talking at all. Half the town still hasn't shown up and a third ran away and got replacements.

Also, what did I do that suddenly I am catching votes? I missed something clearly. I would like to point out that while I am being blamed for not giving reasons for my vote, NOT A SINGLE VOTER OF ME IN THIS GAME HAS GIVEN A REASON. They have all just either said Vote...like JaeReed and murder, or said I say all the right things, which is literally the opposite of saying the wrong things. I have asked that these people elaborate but when getting no response from anyone about it, just blew it off, because it didn't seem valid to me.

Can anyone give me an actual reason why I'm suspicious? Again, it would be nice to have something to actually be able to defend.

Also, I don't feel my revote of Trivium to have been wishy washy at all. I never said I was unvoting him permanently, I said quite clearly that it was just to see how it all played out, because he finally had taken my advice and tried defending himself instead of whining. When he then flipped out again on the people who he had just convinced to unvote him, it was a major red flag for me. Please note that HE DID NOT ATTACK ME he was after Bacde...who then turned the tables somehow and shifted the blame on me. It was not a defensive move. It was more of an epiphany that he was scum. I still can not even imagine what it is I actually did to look scummy. And since then the two votes I've gotten have not said anything about why they voted me.

Robb- Saying that being too defensive, or even defensive, is not a thing, is BS. It most certainly is, but has often also been found to be townies that got upset and confused about being blamed wrongly. But don't try and negate the very clear mistakes that your predecessor made. It's ridiculous to claim that they don't exist...

I think this is a town-aligned post.

Bacde is seemingly just repeating to lynch Tam even when he isn't literally doing that and I find it suspicious.

[iraonavp]

Bacde let's make a deal I'll vote Tam and in return we kill ira stone dead on day 2

And see, this is why we shouldn't lynch Tam or Trivium. Even though Accountant is pretending to be extremely, almost 100% sure of me being scum-aligned, he repeatedly says that he is okay to switch onto someone else, because he doesn't really mind if he lynches me or not so long as it's a mislynch (which I think Tam and Trivium probably are).

In fact, it's better for him to try and lynch someone else today so long as it's a mislynch to keep me alive to mislynch later.

[iraonavp]

Tam is one of the people which I find super hard to read due to the way she writes her posts so I am not sure on her. I still think TM/Sonrio is town tho so I might end up voting her my process of elimination

Lynch preference in order Ira > Tam > Triv

I wasn't even aware that you thought she was scum-aligned, and I looked at your ISO, it's just you say she's null one second and now second on your order to lynch, you haven't even given a single reason why she's scum-aligned.

That's an extremely scum-aligned move, you just opportunistically swapped your read on her because she was getting voted...

[iraonavp]

No, that's super fake. That even suggests that it wasn't based on what you really thought and decided beforehand to shift your vote onto the wagon.

I find it extremely unbelievable that you would have enough town-aligned reads to use process of elimination at this stage.

That even suggests that you had a town-aligned read on Trivium, which you clearly didn't from your posting.

And your response is extremely ambiguous, implicative, and doesn't directly address the fact that you have given no reasons to read Tam as scum-aligned.

VOTE: Accountant

[iraonavp]

think this is a town-aligned post.

Bacde is seemingly just repeating to lynch Tam even when he isn't literally doing that and I find it suspicious.

I disagree.

1. I quoted a post where he said some negative things about my slot and asked him to point them out to me and he didn't. Instead he said posted a few times why he voted me. His first mention of trivium is post 306 but it's not really a read on him, rather accountant/Ira stuff. 2nd time he mentions him is post 552 where he says he's a good guy (I'm assuming this was sarcasm or something. Don't really understand the point of the post actually). Third time he mentions him is in the post he votes him where he directly quotes the IC who says he wants trivium lynched and says some shit I don't understand which is why I asked him for examples. (Like where did trivium defy tam? How did he defy him? And why is that scummy? What position is tam in to make requests of trivium? Also what "shady seeming actions" did he perceive trivium do?

2. At the time of that post he had 3 votes. His reaction imo seems over the top. He acts like he is at l-2 or something. Why make a huge post like that instead of coming in and directly asking the people voting him why they are?

Also this post

Do I get a prize?

Ummm yes, you do! VOTE: Trivium Seriously man, I tried so hard to help you figure out what you were doing wrong and correct it, in the hopes that you were innocent and just really misunderstood.

I don't play around with the wishy washy 'you're great, you're horrible' back and forth players. I find it real scummy. Your opinion of people should not sway like trees in the wind. It can change, of course, but not so radically. You are really grasping for anything.. I'm pretty sure about you now.

I tried.

Reaks of him knowing my slot is town.

(1) is incomprehensible...

Tam's response is equivalent to Trivium's response (and I just realized you replaced him), both are town-aligned posts. I think it's that simple.

I kinda get what you're saying about 724, I that post pinged me too. I can't pin it down on anything other than it sounds off though.

I still think Tam is slightly town-aligned, and I especially don't want to lynch her based on who is on the wagon.

Look at how Accountant and MURDERCAT posture back and forth about which wagon to join, MURDERCAT does exactly the same thing as Accountant where he says how scum-aligned Trivium is and then moves to Tam to shift with the flow.

[iraonavp]

Son I literally said I thought that triv's pity party made me feel like he's town

Are you such a desperate scum that you have to rely on making strawmen to avoid looking like the disingenuous scumlord you are

You are implying it, but still avoiding explicitly saying that you have town-aligned reads on everyone except me and Tam, because you're scum-aligned and lying about it.

[iraonavp]

i cant believe bacde is playing forum mafia

What's that supposed to mean?

[iraonavp]

Wow, in a nutshell, no Robb, I posted a few times EXACTLY why I voted. I thought the others's reasons were okay, but pointed out that it was Trivium's reactions to the whole thing that made me vote him. I then tried really hard to help him out, thinking maybe he was a townie who was misunderstood, as I have been in that spot before and it's frustrating. (I said ALL OF THIS BTW. I'm not sure why you guys are saying I never gave my reasons.) You also say, in the post directly after the one you say i am sus in, that you are most suspicious of people who lurked while Trivium was under fire..I was right in the spotlight, trying to figure this all out. Can you explain this further? Because there were only like 3 of us talking at all. Half the town still hasn't shown up and a third ran away and got replacements.

Also, what did I do that suddenly I am catching votes? I missed something clearly. I would like to point out that while I am being blamed for not giving reasons for my vote, NOT A SINGLE VOTER OF ME IN THIS GAME HAS GIVEN A REASON. They have all just either said Vote...like JaeReed and murder, or said I say all the right things, which is literally the opposite of saying the wrong things. I have asked that these people elaborate but when getting no response from anyone about it, just blew it off, because it didn't seem valid to me.

Can anyone give me an actual reason why I'm suspicious? Again, it would be nice to have something to actually be able to defend.

Also, I don't feel my revote of Trivium to have been wishy washy at all. I never said I was unvoting him permanently, I said quite clearly that it was just to see how it all played out, because he finally had taken my advice and tried defending himself instead of whining. When he then flipped out again on the people who he had just convinced to unvote him, it was a major red flag for me. Please note that HE DID NOT ATTACK ME he was after Bacde...who then turned the tables somehow and shifted the blame on me. It was not a defensive move. It was more of an epiphany that he was scum. I still can not even imagine what it is I actually did to look scummy. And since then the two votes I've gotten have not said anything about why they voted me.

Robb- Saying that being too defensive, or even defensive, is not a thing, is BS. It most certainly is, but has often also been found to be townies that got upset and confused about being blamed wrongly. But don't try and negate the very clear mistakes that your predecessor made. It's ridiculous to claim that they don't exist...

I think this is a town-aligned post.

Bacde is seemingly just repeating to lynch Tam even when he isn't literally doing that and I find it suspicious.

I like how you characterize my play based on 1 post in the entire game

wait no I don't like that it feels lazy man

I'm not characterizing your play, I'm just talking about one thing you did.

I have difficulty understanding where you're coming from and you're not making that any easier. I'm worried that if I just take the easygoing, sarcastic posts such as this one as indications of you being town-aligned I might be sorely mistaken.

[iraonavp]

Bacde I like how you refuse to answer anyone in a meaningful way

what about robb has been scummy

Predit: You're ignoring what I said about Tam, Ira. That post was also my reason and aside from gut I think I mentioned why. Well, maybe I didn't, but it's certainly false-sounding. This pretense of having tried "so hard" to help Trivium before revoting him as a response to him scumreading her is very, as Robb might put it, "scum motivated."

I didn't even know who you were addressing, and I still can't work out what point you're trying to make about Bacde and Tam...

[iraonavp]

Son I literally said I thought that triv's pity party made me feel like he's town

Are you such a desperate scum that you have to rely on making strawmen to avoid looking like the disingenuous scumlord you are

You are implying it, but still avoiding explicitly saying that you have town-aligned reads on everyone except me and Tam, because you're scum-aligned and lying about it.

I mean if you and Tam are mafia and I townread everyone else then I'm correct in every one of those reads except one

See, you're still being ambiguous about it!

Say it, tell everyone that your read list is:
Town-aligned: MURDERCAT, JaeReed, Bacde, JarJarDrinks, evilpacman18, Robbnva, Sonrio, Xkfyu, Impoetic
Null-aligned: Tam
Scum-aligned: iraonavp

[iraonavp]

off topic but how to make my signature show up on all my posts????????????????

also accountant is one of those blunt, mean and old players but also town so ill UNVOTE: Accountant

He's not town-aligned...

He's clearly posturing to lynch Tam and doesn't really think Tam is scum-aligned.

Who do you think is scum-aligned if not Accountant?

[iraonavp]

I bet you if I hadn't made this post that would lampshade it, Tam would have come back and immediately responded to bacde, playing that up as the meat of the BW rather than the weak link it is. I mean, Bacde's a good player, but he's refusing to explain his point of view thoroughly and is someone that can be targeted easily as a means of avoidance/misrepping

Bacde is obvtown enough and a good enough player that I don't feel he is lynchbait for mafia

it's not that he's lynchbait but that people can use his posts to make it look like they're addressing cases just because he's on them, since he refuses to respond to anyone about anything and continuously says things without explaining them (fmpov)

Predit: The bacde comment is in a different vein. Tam made a post about having been trying not to scumread her scumread and then voted after he hard SRed her. That's not towny behavior. You should be able to work out why.

Predit2: Account settings > profile > signature > submit, right?

If you treat it like it had deliberate motivation, sure.

It bothers me how you are implicitly assuming that Bacde is town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

I didn't think 1 was incomprehensible:(

Also something I'm trying to work on. Sometimes your biggest scum read isn't everyone else's so you have to shift your vote. People don't seem interested in voting you off. I certainly am not and since you don't have a ton of votes others don't seem to want to either. I've never seen somebody make a big stink about not being voted before lol.

So given you have issues with their votes. Does this mean you think they are scum together? If
Yes... For real? If no, which one is scummier and why since they both are doing the same thing according to you?

P.edit - damn lots of posts while I was typing lol. This is at iron

Yes, I already said they were scum-aligned together and I worked this out a while ago... Things that I see now are just more evidence to support my conclusion, making me more sure that I'm right about MURDERCAT and Accountant here.

I hate compromising votes, it seems to always end badly for the town from my experience.

I changed my vote from MURDERCAT to Accountant because while MURDERCAT is lurking and avoiding posting in this game Accountant made an extremely scum-aligned move.

Tam is less town-aligned than Trivium, mostly because Tam posted less. They aren't doing the same thing, I was just comparing the tone in some of their posts.

[iraonavp]

I bet you if I hadn't made this post that would lampshade it, Tam would have come back and immediately responded to bacde, playing that up as the meat of the BW rather than the weak link it is. I mean, Bacde's a good player, but he's refusing to explain his point of view thoroughly and is someone that can be targeted easily as a means of avoidance/misrepping

Bacde is obvtown enough and a good enough player that I don't feel he is lynchbait for mafia

it's not that he's lynchbait but that people can use his posts to make it look like they're addressing cases just because he's on them, since he refuses to respond to anyone about anything and continuously says things without explaining them (fmpov)

Predit: The bacde comment is in a different vein. Tam made a post about having been trying not to scumread her scumread and then voted after he hard SRed her. That's not towny behavior. You should be able to work out why.

Predit2: Account settings > profile > signature > submit, right?

If you treat it like it had deliberate motivation, sure.

It bothers me how you are implicitly assuming that Bacde is town-aligned.

where in that post do I say I'm assuming he's town-aligned? I mean, he probably is, but I'm not sure of it.

In 878 I mean.

[iraonavp]

Official accountant reads list (no backsies)

Town-aligned: MURDERCAT, JaeReed, Bacde, JarJarDrinks, evilpacman18, Sonrio, Xkfyu, Impoetic
Null-aligned: Tam
Scum-aligned: iraonavp

See, everyone can see how ridiculous this is and how you are scum-aligned now!

This isn't just Accountant having a joke, this is actually what he is pushing.

The reality is that his read on Tam is fake and he didn't have any reasons to call Tam scum-aligned, the only option he has left is to pretend like it was still a null-aligned read and jump through my hoops.

[iraonavp]

Yes, I already said they were scum-aligned together and I worked this out a while ago... Things that I see now are just more evidence to support my conclusion, making me more sure that I'm right about MURDERCAT and Accountant here.

So scum would basically do the exact same thing?

Don't think either are scum but definitely not both of them. At best one is mirroring the other
No chance scum are mirroring each other

I'm not sure what you're asking...

Yes, it is possible, I saw it happen before. Exactly the reason why it is possible is because you think it isn't.

Anyway that's a very superficial way to look at it and that's not why I'm calling them scum-aligned. Both of them have done numerous scum-aligned things and when I feel more put together I will write paragraphs about how.

[iraonavp]

so are you saying he's scum or I am? also, I'm not assuming he's town.

I'm not sure, but I'm suspicious of both of you currently.

[iraonavp]

I bet you if I hadn't made this post that would lampshade it, Tam would have come back and immediately responded to bacde, playing that up as the meat of the BW rather than the weak link it is. I mean, Bacde's a good player, but he's refusing to explain his point of view thoroughly and is someone that can be targeted easily as a means of avoidance/misrepping

Bacde is obvtown enough and a good enough player that I don't feel he is lynchbait for mafia

See it's posts like these that make me think Accountant can't be anything but town since I thought of pointing out the same thing but then couldn't be bothered.

Just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean that they're town-aligned... You have put way too much stock into people saying things that you want to hear.

[iraonavp]

lol @ the last 2 posts from ira

What?

[iraonavp]

I wasn't saying bacde would be lynchbait. I was saying he was making it easier for tam to dodge questions/twist facts and that tam was doing/would do those things

predit: they were bad

Do you think they were scum-aligned posts?

[iraonavp]

The reality is that his read on Tam is fake and he didn't have any reasons to call Tam scum-aligned, the only option he has left is to pretend like it was still a null-aligned read and jump through my hoops.

like can u explain why my read on tam is fake

i null read tam but I'm willing to lynch her because I don't really wanna lynch ayone else atm and someone has to be your buddy

Your read on Tam is fake because you voted her even though you claimed a null-aligned read on her, then rather than you pretended as if you actually thought everyone else was town-aligned and you were voting based on process of elimination. Clearly that is fake and the way you approached it was deliberately ambiguous and scum-aligned.

Why do you care about my explanation if you think I'm scum-aligned? Because you actually know that I'm town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

in reading up, I'm starting to find the ira lynch a decent idea

It's not a good idea, I'm town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

in reading up, I'm starting to find the ira lynch a decent idea

I'd like to hear people's thoughts (those who haven't given them yet) on the Tam lynch.

Well, I think Tam is slightly town-aligned by play and counterwagon to MURDERCAT and Accountant, who are scum-aligned for sure.

[iraonavp]

Sonrio your town circle doesn't even include me or JaeReed I can't take it seriously

Also TAM was never at L-1 he was at L-2

sonrio why are you being a badplayer and not townreading me or bacde or if you're right to not townread bacde could you

share that with us

please???

This post seems scum-aligned to me. I think Sonrio is town-aligned as well.

[iraonavp]

day 1 scum wagon usually isn't smooth because scum do their best to derail it but ira is doing his best to derail it and he's failed because nobody listens to him

No, MURDERCAT is derailing it because of realization that it will look bad after Tam flips town-aligned.

He is deliberately trying to stop lynching Tam not because he is afraid Tam will flip town-aligned, but because he wants to make others on the wagon look bad. You can see that is the focus of his posts.

You are right on one part, though. Nobody listens to me...

[iraonavp]

Accountant, why are you so attached to the idea of lynching a null-aligned read?

[iraonavp]

I didn't see but yeah, isn't that awfully convenient that you change your read after you are forced into a corner in 901.

That is a super opportunistic push, you're just trying anything you can do to lynch Tam. You were constantly talking about the current status of your null-aligned read on Tam as if to reinforce and cover the obvious lie that you read Tam as null-aligned and everyone else in the game as town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Trusting in MC. Gonna sheep him for the rest of the day.

@MC this is a townread for me btw. Would much prefer pacman or something to support your theory. I mean I'll still follow ya, but letting my preference be known.

What the hell...

This is so terrible! You're blatantly sheeping someone who's scum-aligned even though you disagree with them... You're supposed to be innocent child.

Why don't you trust me instead?

[iraonavp]

in reading up, I'm starting to find the ira lynch a decent idea

I'd like to hear people's thoughts (those who haven't given them yet) on the Tam lynch.

Well, I think Tam is slightly town-aligned by play and counterwagon to MURDERCAT and Accountant, who are scum-aligned for sure.

You sure you know what the term "counterwagon" is.

Should be a question mark at the end of this.

I don't see how that's could be a question, it's a statement...

Look at how MURDERCAT and Accountant both leapt at the opportunity to lynch Tam, Accountant especially just randomly voted a null-aligned read, saying that he thought Tam was scum-aligned, and then later jumped back to saying that he was reading her as null-aligned with unbelievable and ambiguous justification. Now MURDERCAT is trying to distance from the flip when Tam was already a large wagon so he can set up things to make people on the wagon look bad.

[iraonavp]

scum read: Murder and account I don't really want to go into a ton of my reads because most of my reads I go into detail on if i'm really sure on them the town read is something I'm sure on the scum reads are for hey look this is prob scum aka: I think these are scum atm but i'm lazy to tell you why

Hey, ira, you've got a friend.

Yay!

At least one other person can see something which is really quite clear to see in this game...

I support to lynch evilpacman18 over Tam or Xkyfu, I think he is comparatively likely to be scum-aligned but honestly if we are not lynching one of MURDERCAT or Accountant (JaeReed said that we aren't...), I don't expect good chances to lynch anyone scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Probably over 50% of Accountant's posts are just slandering me constantly, that alone is pretty scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

I am scum with murder and accountant as my partners

You basically are...

I see nothing wrong with Sonrio's post.

[iraonavp]

laughed aloud you just further evidenced that we aren't a team (as has been theorized over your fos on "Good luck town!", in case you weren't aware) by reacting with confusion to my joke-wifom, and I know it kinda nullifies this tell for me to say it, but i want to be able to draw back to it later in case no one else points it out lol

And if you're town-aligned, don't you already know this..?

I don't understand why you would bring this up, but the fact that you seem aware of things like this is telling I think.

[iraonavp]

If we all want to quicklynch Jarjardrinks for the lulz I'd be down since I don't really feel like that slot is town but I don't want to make a case

otherwise I want Tam

I think JarJarDrinks is town-aligned.

I'll vote anyone (Tam, Xkfyu, evilpacman) at the end of the day so that we don't no lynch, but I really think there is maybe one scum in that group maximum and it's probably Impoetic anyway.

[iraonavp]

I agree Impoetic must be the scum in the group of Tam/Xkfyi/evilpacman

No, that's not what I mean... I don't think you understand.

Since there are probably 3 scum-aligned players in the game, I think two of them are MURDERCAT and Accountant, and the third guess is Impoetic (but I'm less sure about this one), so if those are all correct then all of the list are town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Okay, I prefer to lynch evilpacman18 over Tam.

VOTE: evilpacman18

[iraonavp]

I'm guessing the mafia shot Bacde and a vigilante (or a serial killer pretending to be one) shot xSoniaNevermindx.

I don't blame whoever shot xSoniaNevermindx, it did look like she was admitting to being scum-aligned in 1954 and I'm really not sure how that makes sense from the perspective of a town-aligned player...

The flip (while it didn't really surprise me) confirms my suspicions that MURDERCAT is just switching wagons from town-aligned player to town-aligned player to try and not look like he is just coasting on the Tam wagon (like Accountant was).

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[iraonavp]

I'm alive. Oops. That's not what I wanted.

Well, why do you think that is?

Because you are basically an extra scum-aligned member from just resolving to sheep MURDERCAT and Accountant...

[iraonavp]

We don't know if Bacde would be killed just because of his reads, it could just be WIFOM. I think he was killed because you thought he was "obviously" town-aligned. The kill helps me actually, because he was a slight suspect of mine.

If I would choose between the two, I would rather lynch Tam than JarJarDrinks. JarJarDrinks has made some actively town-aligned posts (for example, 1492 is the first I come across) while Tam is less active.

[iraonavp]

I'm guessing the mafia shot Bacde and a vigilante (or a serial killer pretending to be one) shot xSoniaNevermindx.

I don't blame whoever shot xSoniaNevermindx, it did look like she was admitting to being scum-aligned in 1954 and I'm really not sure how that makes sense from the perspective of a town-aligned player...

The flip (while it didn't really surprise me) confirms my suspicions that MURDERCAT is just switching wagons from town-aligned player to town-aligned player to try and not look like he is just coasting on the Tam wagon (like Accountant was).

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Why would she have posted that if she was scum? She wouldn't have.

Town player perspective: She was being ridden for avoiding the wagon or some bull, and hammered out of frustration over that.

I do agree it was likely a vig shot, but there were better shots to be made and it was likely a shot made out of apathy on not wanting to listen to a bunch of idiots harping on about how she scum-claimed. Which would have actually been helpful in sorting ppl tbh, but eh. Bad shot was bad.

Speaking of being bad... Your vote. Change it.

I didn't mean the hammer, I meant "I HOPE I GOT THE PR GUYS"... That looked like a scum-aligned player saying that they were hoping evilpacman was power role.

And I don't know why I town-aligned player would post that either, it doesn't make sense...

[iraonavp]

I'm alive. Oops. That's not what I wanted.

Well, why do you think that is?

Because you are basically an extra scum-aligned member from just resolving to sheep MURDERCAT and Accountant...

Why do I think it is?

Because I wasn't playing, really. I'm not a threat when I'm not paying attention to the game. Scum want me dead for mylo/lylo but it doesn't particularly matter to them when I die so much as it matters that it happens.

They had a bigger threat in bacde and were hoping it would be handwaved as a "widely townread" shot. It's not going to be. We're lynching JJD or Tam today no exceptions.

Well, if it was what they meant it to be interpreted as then I guess I got tricked!

Ultimately, I will always trust my reads over the reads of people who are killed.

[iraonavp]

What?

You are aware that JaeReed is innocent child, right?

[iraonavp]

I agree, it's as if he doesn't really think that is why Bacde was killed and he's just taking advantage of the fact that JaeReed thinks it is to accuse Tam further.

VOTE: Accountant

Do you want to start a wagon?

[iraonavp]

it's possible he changed his mind after seeing the night flips

Look, you're just covering for him now!

MURDERCAT blatantly tried to capitalize on Tam mislynch, just like you did before when you changed from a null-aligned read to scum-aligned read!

[iraonavp]

it's possible he changed his mind after seeing the night flips

No, I'm not vigilante, I'm just vanilla.

[iraonavp]

Oh, I didn't mean to quote that.

[iraonavp]

We really should lynch Accountant or MURDERCAT instead though.

[iraonavp]

I am not lying about my role. I shot Sonia last night. If you want proof read through everything I have said today and understand that Accountant picked up on it.

My role is innocent child vigilante. I explain why I shot Sonia and pretty sure I explained why not Tam (she was begging to be shot and that screams bp scum or doc protected scum).

I really don't believe you, especially considering your play so far this game. I struggle to see why you would lie about this though, if Genji was lying surely someone would have counter claimed them by now?

[iraonavp]

We really should lynch Accountant or MURDERCAT instead though.

Why specifically either of those?
Why not Xkyfu?
Why not Sonia?

Well, both of them are very scum-aligned to start with... I feel like I already explained this, and you just didn't read the game.

Xkfyu I'm not sure about, but I think Sonrio (that's who you meant, right?) is slightly town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

That's a difficult choice, but probably I would rather lynch MURDERCAT than Accountant. I both find them suspicious to about the same extent though.

[iraonavp]

This is a normal game, it's literally impossible to have innocent child vigilante...

I think JaeReed just wants to look consistent about saying that Tam is scum-aligned even when he is basically confirmed as town-aligned, it's ridiculous.

[iraonavp]

This is a normal game, it's literally impossible to have innocent child vigilante...

I think JaeReed just wants to look consistent about saying that Tam is scum-aligned even when he is basically confirmed as town-aligned, it's ridiculous.

If I ever see you in a game I'm in ever again I am auto replacing.

That's absolutely fucking unreasonable considering that you are the one deliberately lying about your role and playing against your win condition.

Read the Normal Game wiki page. It's not a legal role. You are obviously lying!

[iraonavp]

Oh, so it is possible...

I guess Genji is actually scum-aligned then, I didn't expect that.

Sorry for any confusion, JaeReed.

VOTE: Genji

[iraonavp]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Okay, I reread things after Genji was scum-aligned and MURDERCAT is also scum-aligned, almost certainly now.

This is because during day 1, MURDERCAT spontaneously starts the counter wagon from Tam onto evilpacman, the only justification he gives is "~~vibes~~" and the whole sound of the post is extremely fake and you can tell he's just using the WIFOM of "why would scum defend partner without giving a single reason?" to push an agenda.

He saw an opportunity as the Tam wagon stalled to save Tam, and it worked...

Accountant is also still scum-aligned from the null-aligned read on Tam, then changes in a second to wanting to lynch Tam. This is a strong scum-aligned tell that shows he changed his read in the middle of a game to bus Tam. He tries to cover himself with semantics but it's obvious he just got caught with fake reads on his partner.

Accountant's stance on Tam has been unwavering in a fake way which suggests a bus that he is afraid to get off.

Maybe it is possible to be Xkyfu as well, but that's all the suspects I have at the moment.

Pedit:

[iraonavp]

Lol he was just one shot. I was one shot.

Hopefully for those better at setup spec than I am that'll clear up what roles scum might have.

Not voting outside of Son, Xk, iraon today.

VOTE: Iraon

This is now a liability even if he's town.

P-edit: Actually yeah nah he's defs scum.

No, I'm town-aligned!

Accountant is clearly trying to frame me as bussing Genji when he wasn't even lynched yet, he was too certain that Tam would be scum-aligned and now he linked the slot to me...

[iraonavp]

Deliberately lynching me for some personal grudge even though I'm town-aligned is blatantly playing against wincon, which is apparently against the rules.

Although you have inadvertently done this most of the game by trusting for no reason and then sheeping the two players in the game most likely to be scum-aligned!

You will most likely make it to LyLo if your lynch list contains only town-aligned players like I expect...

[iraonavp]

Short of a second inno child reveal I'm not taking my vote off you, ever

Yes, just like you never took your vote off Tam once you decided to bus...

Accountant's stances in the entire game (and he has had very few) are flimsy and have false inflexibility.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: ira

I'm gunna roll with you guys.

TOWN BLOCK..... ASSEMBLE!!!

Look, MURDERCAT doesn't even think I'm scum-aligned!

He is just sheeping the "townblock" which apart from JaeReed is probably scum-aligned...

Basically, he just is going for the easy mislynch when he said I was town-aligned earlier. Nobody will fault him because you already have already displayed it as a "policy lynch".

JaeReed, if you lynch me, I don't trust you to stop being blind to your mistakes. You expect me to flip town-aligned and then when I do, you will just continue down the incorrect path you have followed so far...

[iraonavp]

Daykill: MURDERCAT

sick I'm town gj.

If that's real

Hey Murder... Guess at how edgy I feel about these right now

I already pointed this out on day 1!

MURDERCAT faked the reaction to Bacde's dayvig because he wanted to make himself look town-aligned, he always knew that it wasn't real.

[iraonavp]

Hahaha don't worry I am town.

Here's my new trust tell. In every game I'm town I will post a picture of a kitten.

Spoiler: kitten

I have never done that in a game as scum. (Admittedly, this is the first game I've done it in, but I promise it's legit.)

This post is really fake, it obviously proves nothing and is just posturing to try and make himself look town-aligned.

There's no other motivation to post that...

Also, the kitten looks disgusting and not cute at all.

[iraonavp]

It's not cute, it looks like it has some infection in its eye and mouth and is all diseased.

That doesn't even mean anything... I never once been lynched at LyLo before, or voted wrong either.

It would make more sense to issue a decree against me voting without someone else's permission or else I get lynched. I'm more happy with that idea because it is better me dying.

[iraonavp]

I'm town-aligned and I don't want to be lynched, you are just trying to use anything to accuse me...

You don't really believe that, it's just like you pretend to make the assumption that I am scum-aligned and work backwards from there.

That's ridiculous anyway, Sonrio is probably town-aligned!

[iraonavp]

Tam is one of the people which I find super hard to read due to the way she writes her posts so I am not sure on her. I still think TM/Sonrio is town tho so I might end up voting her my process of elimination

Lynch preference in order Ira > Tam > Triv

Yes, but only because you already knew that Tam was scum-aligned because you are also scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Well, I'm just vanilla townie... I already said.

[iraonavp]

Please don't lynch me, I'm town-aligned!

[iraonavp]

I did like Ira's "JJD is fake claiming gunsmith and is actually vig"

Well, I thought that because of how there was already a follower dead and he seemed to be softclaiming by agreeing with me about shooting Sonia.