Micro 633: Marvel Dual Universes uPick - Game over!

[McMenno]

VOTE: Fire Assassin
why have an alt when it isn't secret?

because you're scum, of course!

[McMenno]

VOTE: McMenno

lolok

[McMenno]

is this what passes for a reaction wagon nowadays

[McMenno]

if you're serious about this wagon please raise your hand

raises hand

[McMenno]

if you're serious about this wagon please raise your hand

raises hand

I am.

TTH, join the RVS wagon for the lolz!

say what?

[McMenno]

VOTE: Alabaska

stop this

VOTE: Ircher

[McMenno]

VOTE: Alabaska

stop this

VOTE: Ircher

Why?

We sure loved reaction wagons in Beeboy mafia!

it's not a reaction wagon if you keep hopping your vote around you nut

[McMenno]

Wait you're at epcot today I'm at epcot right now

aren't we all

[McMenno]

if you're serious about this wagon please raise your hand

raises hand

McMenno is more likely town for his response to the reaction wagon.

Why is that? I don't see it.

He wasn't fazed at all by it. It's sarcastic, but sarcasm that seems to be from town rather than mafia.

Stop Mcmemer, you've violated the law!

But yeah, weird.

I hate this part of the game. I never have any idea of what to do.

???

I would say start a wagon on this shit but it's ircher

hmmmmmmmm

[McMenno]

okay

not voting ircher is a COP-out

[McMenno]

I found the scumteam, folks

:^)

[McMenno]

hey panther how about joining me on an ircher wagon

[McMenno]

one second, did I not check with this game for 2 days

guess I did

yes ircher needs rope still

[McMenno]

one second, did I not check with this game for 2 days

guess I did

yes ircher needs rope still

Could you atleast post your case before continuing in flinging accusations at me; thanks.

it's all in the tone yo

why are you voting a townread is the real question here

could also be persuaded to vote lilith btw

[McMenno]

@fa

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

this post is pretty iffy to me. I feel like there's something off about the wording but I can't really articulate what

I miss MoI, why didn't he join this game?

there are a bunch of fluffposts like these. lilith, what do you feel like this adds to the game

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

here she's deflecting from herself onto Ircher. I agree with the sentiment but tone feels accusatory instead of explanatory; don't like that

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

[McMenno]

VOTE: Fire Assassin
why have an alt when it isn't secret?

because you're scum, of course!

if it's an outed alt can someone share? in case I've played with them before and have some meta knowledge

they're a firebringer alt but he plays differently on both accounts. or so I've heard

[McMenno]

VOTE: Fire Assassin
why have an alt when it isn't secret?

because you're scum, of course!

if it's an outed alt can someone share? in case I've played with them before and have some meta knowledge

they're a firebringer alt but he plays differently on both accounts. or so I've heard

interesting.....

any response to my post about your early posts?

no not really, tbh I don't take the early game serious really

if you're serious about this wagon please raise your hand

raises hand

McMenno is more likely town for his response to the reaction wagon.

Why is that? I don't see it.

He wasn't fazed at all by it. It's sarcastic, but sarcasm that seems to be from town rather than mafia.

Stop Mcmemer, you've violated the law!

But yeah, weird.

I hate this part of the game. I never have any idea of what to do.

???

I would say start a wagon on this shit but it's ircher

hmmmmmmmm

why, pray tell, would these posts lead you to start a wagon from an objective standpoint

if not for the "but it's ircher" caveat?

dislike the 'hmmmmmmm' as a "look at me thinking about a read!" when I really feel it's "not sure I can justify/get away with this so I'm going to hedge and see if anyone bites and votes and then I have permission and I can vote too"

they felt a little scummy to me but I am prone to scumreading players like Ircher and they have flipped town a number of times

tldr don't feel like I can get a read on him yet

Spoiler:

okay

not voting ircher is a COP-out

I found the scumteam, folks

:^)

I found the scum

team

, folks

:^)

Team?

What makes you think I'm scum?
Who have you identified as my partner

if

I am scum? (which I'm not)

Tell me, what's the scum motivation for my behavior?

hey panther how about joining me on an ircher wagon

one second, did I not check with this game for 2 days

guess I did

yes ircher needs rope still

one second, did I not check with this game for 2 days

guess I did

yes ircher needs rope still

Could you atleast post your case before continuing in flinging accusations at me; thanks.

one second, did I not check with this game for 2 days

guess I did

yes ircher needs rope still

Could you atleast post your case before continuing in flinging accusations at me; thanks.

it's all in the tone yo

why are you voting a townread is the real question here

could also be persuaded to vote lilith btw

@fa

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

this post is pretty iffy to me. I feel like there's something off about the wording but I can't really articulate what

I miss MoI, why didn't he join this game?

there are a bunch of fluffposts like these. lilith, what do you feel like this adds to the game

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

here she's deflecting from herself onto Ircher. I agree with the sentiment but tone feels accusatory instead of explanatory; don't like that

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

VOTE: Fire Assassin
why have an alt when it isn't secret?

because you're scum, of course!

if it's an outed alt can someone share? in case I've played with them before and have some meta knowledge

they're a firebringer alt but he plays differently on both accounts. or so I've heard

this progression of posts has me scratching my head

@mcmenno

you say you found the scum team...so who were your two scum reads at that time? and why? were they independent reads? or linked together? you never answered ircher (ircher why didn't you follow up?)

after ircher asks for a reason on your vote for him, you take the easy road of "tone" without any elaboration. how does this jive with your ealier post saying "it's ircher though..hmmmmmmmm"

I quoted the rest purely to demonstrate you left that line, pbp'd lilith and then just answered a question of mine without commenting on my actual posts about you. all of which I did not like

that post immediately followed xk declaring his v/la, jokingly declaring that "I found the scumteam (ircher and xk)".

[McMenno]

I am voting lilith rn

[McMenno]

@fa

I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.

That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.

this post is pretty iffy to me. I feel like there's something off about the wording but I can't really articulate what

I miss MoI, why didn't he join this game?

there are a bunch of fluffposts like these. lilith, what do you feel like this adds to the game

You should be taking issue with Ircher for scumreading both me AND Clumsy and voting a null-townread instead. Instead you are blaming ??? while still townreading Ircher. How does that even make sense?

here she's deflecting from herself onto Ircher. I agree with the sentiment but tone feels accusatory instead of explanatory; don't like that

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

[McMenno]

He is shit posting in the way that I kind of expect from him as town if I am going to be honest.
Though I would like more content form him.

You know, if we could, as a site, agree to lynch all shit posters immediately in games, people would eventually stop shit posting.

That would be nice.

I mean if you want to policy lynch anyone who doesn't fill pages upon pages with 500-word essays about how punctuation indicates scumminess for "shitposting", then go right ahead, but it isn't going to help you

oh, and as I always say, put your vote where your voice is

:^)

[McMenno]

It doesn't? I tend to post in stream of consciousness, had a thought about MoI being in the previous game, and posted it. Do all my posts have to have content for me to be town?

no

I don't know Ircher's meta.

There are 3 people on his wagon and one more person possibly scumreading him, that's not "everyone."

not taking responsibility here

Not taking responsibility for what?

My response was, I don't know Ircher's meta and wouldn't know whether FA's words are true. Therefore I am still suspicious of Ircher's behavior. I'm not going to dive into every person's meta if I haven't played with them before.

Fixed quotes for the last part

felt like you were pushing the responsibility for your scumread of ircher onto other people who were scumreading him

see, there's a bunch of players that I seem to get a scumread on every game and I can't read them; one of those is ircher. I think I might sort him later

VOTE: lilith

If this is true then why did you push him so hard and scumread him right out of the gate? Shouldn't you have already had this mindset and so approached Ircher without scumreading him for his initial behavior?

not sure

[McMenno]

fa lynch is not happening today

I am willing to vote ircher over no lynch

[McMenno]

oh damn we are approaching deadline.

wow what a disappointing day 1.. we need to consolidate votes here and have at most two wagons. anyone off of the two competing wagons on their own vanity wagon is in my pool of people to get vigged tonight! good luck!

this is pretty hypocritical coming from you as you were on fa, a vanity wagon, at the time

noted

[McMenno]

and now on myself

+ you're calling people to vote me so it doesn't look like a vanity wagon anymore?

[McMenno]

or maybe accept that not everyone acts like in the newbie queue

going to bed now

[McMenno]

so it's nine hours until deadline and I'm at l-1, will be going to school soon

might as well claim

I'm an alerter, at the beginning of each night I get a message if someone has visited me

so basically a named townie

[McMenno]

beginning of each day*

[McMenno]

alabaska, get in here

[McMenno]

so it's nine hours until deadline and I'm at l-1, will be going to school soon

might as well claim

I'm an alerter, at the beginning of each night I get a message if someone has visited me

so basically a named townie

So you are told if you were visited, but not by who. or told what action was taken on you?

On one hand, it smells like a bad fake claim. On the other hand, I feel like a fake claim would have been better made? Though this is definitely a claim that has an infinitesimally small chance of being counterclaimed.

Along the same lines, there is absolutely nothing that prevents this from being the truth, but being a mafia role?

nope

[McMenno]

I would not do that

would you hammer an innocent child to prevent a no lynch?

[McMenno]

or, better analogy: a friendly neighbor that you've been targeted by

[McMenno]

I'm fine with that, it's not like I'm townreading you anyway

[McMenno]

oh, and I'm fine with deadline lynching ircher over no lynch, but we'd need another vote for that

[McMenno]

but I want to wait for alabaska first, if alabaska doesn't show up by deadline I'll hammer ircher

[McMenno]

I'm already on lilith

I meant that if none of you are willing to hammer lilith, and/or alabaska doesn't show up by deadline, we can lynch ircher because there are four people here currently (alabaska is on ircher already)

[McMenno]

there are plenty people on

[McMenno]

I don't think a tth lynch is happening today

[McMenno]

I mean, I'm all up for a tth lynch but we don't have enough votes for that

[McMenno]

if we can get enough votes

VOTE: telltaleheart

here's one

[McMenno]

I hadn't really paid attention to her tbh

[McMenno]

that was.... very bad

[McMenno]

watcher gives you a list of players who visited your target

[McMenno]

what you're describing would be a follower

[McMenno]

I'm still around

I'm fine with any option on the table besides myself currently

[McMenno]

it's feasible

[McMenno]

Intent

I prefer clumsy over ircher but ircher is fine

[McMenno]

VOTE: Clumsy

for now

[McMenno]

well

that was pretty intense, I admit it

[McMenno]

or yourself

[McMenno]

TTH wanna lay out your last reads seeing as you should expect to die tonight?

in response to this

[McMenno]

in that he's a probable nk, wouldn't you agree?

[McMenno]

can you clue us into your role

[McMenno]

I assume 1-shot

[McMenno]

huh

we did well

I'm pretty sure that unless there's some elaborate bussing going on fire assassin is definitely town

[McMenno]

oh and I was not visited tonight

gonna look for associatives I guess

[McMenno]

Spoiler: associatives with alabaska

So you think TTH is town because of the dialog with Alabaska, but not Alabaska? What's the reason behind it?

So you think TTH is town because of the dialog with Alabaska, but not Alabaska? What's the reason behind it?

Don't like this post.

What don't you like about it?

It implies that the dialog between the two should be interpreted as both are town, when thats not how I read it either. I got TTH town more than anything from Alabaska, and I would assume anyone who was reading that would get a similar assumption if they were trying to understand and read into them. He just assumes both should be read as town or something?

It was odd.

I purposefully left my opinion out of it. I'm not saying I think Alabaska is town, I'm actually agreeing with you here that I like TTH for town more than Alabaska for the moment. The only assumption being made is the one you made. I can see how it comes off that way though, but no. Just asking for reasoning.

I purposefully left my opinion out of it. I'm not saying I think Alabaska is town, I'm actually agreeing with you here that I like TTH for town more than Alabaska for the moment. The only assumption being made is the one you made. I can see how it comes off that way though, but no. Just asking for reasoning.

So what kind of reasoning were you hoping to find?
If you came to same conclusions, what was the point of the question.
In before this was a reaction test.

You got to same conclusions that person got, but you questioned why he didn't get to Alabaska as town, even though you didn't get any of that yourself.
It sounds like bad questioning at best and scum trying to lk busy at worst.

So you're saying that trying to follow someone's reasoning and understanding their thought process is bad because I agree with them? Just because I hold a similar opinion does not mean that person is automatically town. I'm not going to tip my hand first when questioning.

Responding to prod. Gotta leave for work in about 15 minutes, I'll be back later. Real fast, I like Lilith for town, iffy with TTH (posting kind of reminds me of DC Earth-Two TTH, who was scum), and Ircher's tone seems really off to me. I should be back before deadline though, so for now,

UNVOTE:

I want to look more into TTH and Ircher to be specific.

Spoiler: associatives with lilith

Look into TTH and Fire. Ircher needs rope soon. I don't like Lilith's switch onto me after town reading me, not sure if scummy though.

Lillith, looks like we're scum together again.


Fire, I can understand that you don't have much on Panther, but you don't have a read at all on Xk? They've posted the 3rd most so far.

Spoiler: anti-ircher posts

Why is that? I don't see it.

Responding to prod. Gotta leave for work in about 15 minutes, I'll be back later. Real fast, I like Lilith for town, iffy with TTH (posting kind of reminds me of DC Earth-Two TTH, who was scum), and Ircher's tone seems really off to me. I should be back before deadline though, so for now,

UNVOTE:

I want to look more into TTH and Ircher to be specific.

I want people who were not in the DC game to read TTH's posts starting here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7944327

That's where Day 1 on Earth 2 starts, where TTH was scum. I'm getting the same kind of vibe from her posting here as from there.

I'm going to crash soon. Dunno if I'll be up in time tomorrow. I'm okay with a Mcmenno/Ircher. Not voting for Lilith. Panther is a big townread.

VOTE: Mcmenno

p-edit: Fire, want to do something other than say "that's bad" or telling town town that we -are- going to do something?

Look into TTH and Fire. Ircher needs rope soon. I don't like Lilith's switch onto me after town reading me, not sure if scummy though.

currently I like alabaska>lilith>tth as partners for clumsy, don't think it can be fire assassin, ircher or pantherpunt

VOTE: Alabaska

[McMenno]

looks like I was ninja'd by fire huh

great minds think alike :^)

[McMenno]

oh, and I'm not sure what I think about xk at the moment

I guess when we get to a me-tth-xk hydra I'll think more about it :^)

[McMenno]

I meant lylo* woops

[McMenno]

VOTE: Clumsy

confirmed scum

forwshadowing?

since i haven't posted in a bit, here is my player spectrum. don't have a ton of time to post tonight so more will come tomorrow.

TOWN

lilith2013 - her posts on mcmenno-ircher are the basis for my reads on them and i can't see her being scum with one of those at the moment.
PantherPunt - recent posting seems very well thought out. doesn't make him town but he has not thrown any scumtells and has contributed to discussion without seeming like he is trying to steer it towards a certain person without reason
Xkfyu - i feel like he is town based on our earlier back and forth and its resolution
Clumsy - not much of a read on him but again his posts are contributing and nothing has stood out.

NULL

TellTaleHeart - has done some pro-town stuff with her posting (same as most of the people above) but our interaction left me with a much worse taste in my mouth. both balance out, feel very unsure

SCUM

Fire Assassin - again, the early no-lynch stuff was weird but not a tell either way. this post feels really weird to me...you should definitely question people's views that agree with your own if those people come to those views for the wrong reason. scum often want to parrot and ride on other wagons that townies start. his interaction with

mcmenno who i think is scum

the most is interesting when he dismisses mcmenno's behavior because he does it does it as both alignments and this seems like town shitposting but having JUST finished a game with mcmenno where he was town he was nothing like this i have issues with this handwave. however the quick posting of the DC dual is a point in the town direction for me
Ircher - lilith's posts i agree with. not sure if people see what i see there.

NULL pt 2

McMenno - so mcmenno is down here because i have two wildly different interpretations for his behavior and i won't go into them yet. however, in both of my theories, ircher is scum. so without further ado

VOTE: Ircher

this reads list reeks fabricated

look at the cursive specifically

[McMenno]

I'm assuming pantherpunt got doc'd?

[McMenno]

oh, and

VOTE: Ircher

:^)

[McMenno]

so what we could've done, was not lynch ircher and move onto earth two, then dead townies there can talk to us here about earth two

just a thought, but it's too late for that now and a perfect town win is pretty cool too :^)

[McMenno]

He's usually at least somewhat scumread, so I don't see why scum wouldn't leave that and take out someone like TTH or FA for example. Seems odd to me.

Of course they wouldn't kill me.
I'm loved. <3

and I'm hated

I believe this earth contains a flurry of vote-related mechanics

[McMenno]

hated, a micro staple, I mean :^)

[McMenno]

I don't believe tth is scum here... I think her claim is slightly townish, scum would just not claim and wait until they're "hammered"

not sure though

oh and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=850 is a cakez game where there were loved and hated, they were both town there (hated got recruited into a cult but still)

I think they killed Ircher because they thought people would think he was town here because he was scum in the last game, or it's just wifom

currently at tth slight townlean panther slight scumlean but maybe less so for that last post

[McMenno]

I don't believe tth is scum here... I think her claim is slightly townish, scum would just not claim and wait until they're "hammered"

not sure though

oh and Here is a cakez game where there were loved and hated, they were both town there (hated got recruited into a cult but still)

I think they killed Ircher because they thought people would think he was town here because he was scum in the last game, or it's just wifom

currently at tth slight townlean panther slight scumlean but maybe less so for that last post

url fixed

[McMenno]

I would probably have kept quiet about it if my modifier stayed in LYLO but it doesn't so I feel like it's essentially a filler role.
I've had this role once before and I crumbed it in almost the exact same way and nothing horrible happened as a result. I'm also someone who outed as an IC on my first post so maybe I am a tad impulsive but I don't think what I did was badly negative EV.

It just ruins it's potential to help in wagon analysis if you are in fact town. Now that both vote mechanic roles are outed (I don't diagree with Hated claiming) there is no purpose to them.

Thoughts on Alabaska?

why don't you think there are more vote-related roles

I think everyone has one, in fact

[McMenno]

Also I can't believe cakes made both xk and me town neighbors, the whole game I was half-scumreading him because of it ><

neighbors in micros are often both town

Can I ask why it matters what role you soft?

There's nothing inherently town about the role but the only times I've ever seen the role used it was town.
While it's not technically correct play, if I saw someone else soft loved my first instinct would be to slightly townread it.

I wouldn't exactly call it a "soft"

it might just be that because I am hated I was on the lookout

[McMenno]

I do not believe that I am "up" for a tth wagon atm

[McMenno]

unvote

Clumsy makes some great points there. Fire Assassin, while your idea is noble it is not really realistic at all. if you get too paranoid about ever mislynching you just end up doing nothing. I think no lynching is possible the single most anti-town strategy in this type of set up. Clumsy is right - most of our best info will come from how people play differently on the different earths. While mislynching is always bad, the cloud has more silver lining here than a lot of other setups. If we just take it one at a time (again, completely unrealistic anyway), we are just playing two micros. Seems inherently worse than playing two micros simultaneously that give you plenty of information about each other

Ircher kill seems reasonable, scum on world one versus town on world two could mean that he could be read as town more easily. Will be interesting to read clumsy today. I don't know why people are discussing the voting mechanic so heavily; in fact panther's early jump on TTH is the closest thing to a scumtell I've seen today. Looks like a scum trying to start a wagon on the back of town brownie points from the first world then backing off when nothing came of it. Even though these are different worlds if people are not careful their reads will bleed over easily; people who were Very Town last world I think will be overrated (for lack of a better term) in this world.

Why is it good for us to be playing the two games at the same time, but bad for us to be using reads from one game to help along reads in the other game? Isn't that the whole point of playing the two games at the same time rather than playing two separate micros?

maybe you are misinterpreting me. i'm saying it would be good for scum to kill ircher, and town would benefit by being able to townread him

slightly

more easily.

well, it looks like TTH was actually softclaiming. seeing other people also see it as a soft claim, most of my original point on Panther is kind of invalid. I am the odd one out when it comes to the soft opinion it seems. the reason i said you were playing differently than day one is that if you look at day one, you begin (once we actually start playing) with suspicions on McMenno, but no vote. you discuss possible links between him and ircher, but don't vote. here at the beginning of world 2, you aggressively vote TTH based on thinking her soft is scum-leaning. i see this play today as much more aggressive than your day 1 conduct. additionally, the OMGUS, saying i had an agenda just because i said you had done the closest thing i had seen today to a scumtell. this ties in to the last reason i thought you were acting differently than day 1: i never remembered you being defensive. upon looking back, i was right, but you were also never really attacked by anyone, so that point doesn't hold as much water.

i'm going to leave my vote where it is for now because of the omgus. does anyone else agree that that was an overreaction?

personally I didn't see it as much of a "soft" as just an outright claim...

I think I'm ready to put down a vote now

VOTE: PantherPunt

[McMenno]

What's changed since the last time you posted to now to make you okay with voting Panther?

not a lot, honestly

[McMenno]

that, I cannot answer

[McMenno]

that was pointless

[McMenno]

alabaska is like... an okay lynch? not the best, not the worst

don't have any strong feelings on him is what I'm saying

[McMenno]

le sigh

stating intent, then

please claim

[McMenno]

rest in pieces, golden sweep etc. etc.

I think the nightstart was a little scumsided yeah