Mini Normal 1809: Game Over

[Dierfire]

VOTE COUNT 3.11

Hoopla (4): Elyse, Grendel, Egg, MathBlade
Egg (2): Wingback, Hoopla
MathBlade (1): BBmolla
Elyse (1): Killthestory

With 8 players living, a lynch requires 5/8 votes.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-08-12 23:00:00)

NOTES

None

[BBmolla]

I think he's scum because he's not scumhunting.

lmao

[BBmolla]

Why is the Mathblade/Blankface lynch so opposed?

[BBmolla]

That's what I'm confused about.

[MathBlade]

Because I am town and there isn't a case. If you think I am scum then make a case.

I am going to work. Hoopla needs rope people.

[Wingback]

Finished page 38 in my re-read and I noticed Masquerade is voting Egg (Post 877, Post 919). That lessens my scumread on Egg given that this would be the first time Masquerade would have voted a buddy. She has four completed scumgames and she never votes a partner.

Something that bugged me about Blankface was that his readslist in Post 809 contained only four players and he never follows up and completes it. It has been on the back of mind but I never really thought about it until I decided to look through his past games to see what I find. I found this neat little tidbit of info in a Mafia PT of his where he explicitly says that he ignores some people in his re-read in case anyone checks to see who he has ignored. In his scumgame, he's also fairly inactive although he does make detailed catchups and survives to endgame and win whereas when he's town, he's invariably among the top posters. That kills my townread on Blankface/Mathblade. It's possible I'm reading way too much into a stray vote.

Interaction between BBMolla/Mathblade strongly point to Math-scum, Molla-town as they reek of the same thing Math did in Mini 1800 townreading a lynchbait player (JohnnyFarrar) for weak reasons, just insisting that they are town because of "meta" that Mathblade can't explain with any depth of thought. I'm not entirely townreading Molla though given the total lack of effort into the game.

I don't know how I did it but I went through Egg's ISO in the game he listed and read all of his over 200 posts. There a couple of points where he falls behind but I don't see anywhere in his catchups where he just parrots other people's reasoning for their scumreads which is my biggest hangup with him.

Given that at least four players are tunneled in on Hoopla and I can't get any of the rest to agree to a lynch elsewhere, might be best to just go along with lynching Hoopla. If she's scum, that's great and my initial townread was wrong. If not, at least everyone can re-evaluate. I think I'm over-analyzing the game so seeing a couple of flips would help. If I'm not alive tomorrow, my final reads are that Grendel and Elyse are town and that I have a slight leaning townread on KTS that I'm not confident in.

Intent to hammer Hoopla in a few hours.

[Wingback]

Actually, I'd prefer going to Mathblade first if Elyse agrees (we'd have the numbers since KTS hammers anyone). Just putting that out there. If not, Hoopla's pretty much the only lynch that'll happen. Going to decide once Elyse checks in.

[Elyse]

I want Hoopla blood

[Wingback]

VOTE: Hoopla

I think this is the right play here.

[Grendel]

...oh, I meant to put up more content, but it looks like we're in twilight now.

My reads haven't changed much. Egg, BBmolla, and Eylse are strong town reads with Egg bien the strongest. Recently feeling a town lean on Wingback, but not completely counting him out of being a scum. Math/Hoopla are scum team, and KTS is the trusty third option.

I'll start on Math's request. Hopefully I can finish it before twilight ends.

[Grendel]

Going off of vote count 3.10 and mainly looking at the points made today.

Hoopla is getting votes from Elyse, me, and egg.
Elyse
- “The PR” scum slip. Also casting doubt on BB. (Post 1157)
-Hoopla handled to mask wagon in a very strange manner. It seemed to Elyse that Hoopla was trying to salvage Mask before realizing it wouldn’t work, and bussed him. (1182)
-Not seeing through Mask’s awkward claim. (post 1200)
- For voting me, and Egg. Elyse feels the cause behind double vigilante claim falls on Hoopla as well. (post 1198) (post 1200)
-Keeping one pocket town read is classic scum move. (1203)
-If Mask were planning to make this claim it only makes sense that at least one scum buddy would play along with it. Otherwise there would be not point to the fake claim, and Mask would be lynched. Seeing that Hoopla went with it then she must be scum. (1292)
- Hoopla is keeping her options open to find a mislynch. (1316)

Most Elyse's points are valid. I didn't think much of "The PR slip", thought that was a bit silly. Also think that her points that -Hoopla is casting doubt on BB/Hoopla is keeping mislynch options open-, and keeping BB as pocket town read are a contradiction to each other. Really like post 1292.

Grendel
-Hoopla let Mask’s scum read of a universally town read player slip through the cracks. Being the instigator of the D1 wagons you’d think she noticed that vote for one of her town reads made by Mask.(1159) (1185)
- lamp shading. Hoopla was very quick to back of Mask when Mask remained suspect even after his claim. Also very quick to assume that Mask’s claim was provable. Introduced that idea of a role stopper, and tried diminishing the threat of a role blocker. I think that scum would claim that Cmitc1 visited scum last night to remove the threat of another confirmed town player. (1209)
-Mask wasn’t in danger to being lynched after Egg unvoted so Hoopla had no reason to unvote too. And while I voted my vote alone wouldn’t hammer so the fear of Mask vig getting lynch was kind of silly. Further elaboration on how I predicted scum would play, and how Hoopla fitted that expectation. (1296)
- Why was Hoopla interested in finding a new lynch target when Mask’s claim was no longer confirmable? She also led the reasoning that Mask’s shot would clear him. (1304)

I think my points are all valid... well I guess that the lamp shading is a bit of a stretch.

Egg
-Voted Blank despite reasoning that he was probably town at the start of D2. Hoopla wanted to let Mask live before the Grendel claimed. (1204)
-Egg has been town reading me pretty hard, and his push on Hoopla could be partly due to her push on me yesterday. (Inferred)
(Looks like I’l have to step back a day to find more reasons)
-Vote count analysis. Hoopla didn’t put Mask on the chopping block even though Mask was in a similar postion as Vedith/Blank face. Also, switching the wagon to Mask in VC 1.08 makes more sense than switching it to Blankface given that Mask had more votes at the time. (901)

Kind of bare bones, but I'm pretty sure he is town with a busy irl situation. So no problem here. If my inferred point is incorrect then can Egg correct me.

Egg is getting votes from Wingback, and Hoopla.

Wingback
-Reaction test (1238)
- Meta reads on Egg. Busses his scumbuddies, his push on Mask refelects an informed perspective, Egg ties scum buddy to town (Mask to Hoopla) (1318)
-Egg’s suggesting to be lynched looked fake. (1323)
-Egg second guessing his scum read on Hoopla but isn’t talking it out with Hoopla. (1329)
-If Egg thought Grendel was a cop why was he trying to get further information from Grendel? An experienced player wouln’t suggests that get themselves lynched as it hurts town win-con. Mask push was bad because Egg used “null tells”. (1343)
- Egg’s push on Mask came too early. (1364)

I personally feel that his intial interaction with Egg (1238) lead to a biased reading of the game. I disagree with most these points. Maybe the second guessing thing, and the Egg suggesting himself to be lynched I can kind of see. But that's it.

Hoopla
-Wingback disproved the main reason that Hoopla was town reading Egg. (1326)
-Sheeping… (1357)

Maybe it’s because I’m really rushing at this point, but that’s all I found here. just open sheeping and implied PoE.

Runing out of time, and don’t feel like anylising BB’s votte on Math, or KTS vote on Eylse. I will say that I think KTS's vote on Elyse is dumb though. Sorry if this post wasn't very great, really nervous and trying to get something out there before day end. Pretty sure I'm getting the killed tonight.

[Grendel]

Good luck town!!!

[MathBlade]

@Wingback WTF? That was hammer.

I explicitly said Hoopla was at L-1 when I voted.

I am at work so will read the text late tonight if thread not locked.

[Killthestory]

i am the trusty third option!

[MathBlade]

Just read the paragraph and my townread on Wingback is shattered.

Why did you fucking hammer when you said I was scum? Why not push that further? Instead you freaking hammer the person your supposed scumread asks you to?? How does this make any sense.

General paranoia does not excuse sheeping a scumread.

Based on that logic I can never townread anyone or it is 1800 all over again.

Like no. I am reviewing Wingback tonight.

[MathBlade]

I KNOW I am not scum but the fact you didn't even ask a question to me to try to figure out my alignment and instead hammered Hoopla but I am still waiting for people to fucking respond to me and you instantly hammer before Grendel who is pretty much universally town read posts a damn thing.

Are you seriously scared of conversation that fucking much? I have not had a chance to fucking interact with some of the players at all. If tomorrow is LyLo I only have my reads to go off for those people?

Answer me: Why did you hammer?

[Wingback]

I explicitly said Hoopla was at L-1 when I voted./quote]
Right, and I explicitly said I was hammering and posted the reasons why. You are acting like I was pretending to not know that I hammered.

I didn't hammer because anybody asked me to. I felt that with the state of the game (Elyse, Grendel, Egg, Math) all set on Hoopla, if I try to lynch someone else today and wind up being wrong, that's pretty much game over if Hoopla is town. This way, everyone gets a chance to re-evaluate. I was also questioning my townread on Hoopla given low activity level and not much to go on since I replaced in.

General paranoia does not excuse sheeping a scumread.

What general paranoia? Where did I sheep anyone, let alone a scumread?

This over-reaction pretty much confirms Math as scum. She's spewing rubbish and if she's not vigged or lynched tomorrow, I'll be very disappointed.

[Wingback]

You are acting like I was pretending I didn't know that I was hammering. I stated pretty clearly that I was going to hammer and then I did. The fact that you EXPLICITLY stated that Hoopla was at L-1 was not lost on me.

[MathBlade]

...oh, I meant to put up more content, but it looks like we're in twilight now.

My reads haven't changed much. Egg, BBmolla, and Eylse are strong town reads with Egg bien the strongest. Recently feeling a town lean on Wingback, but not completely counting him out of being a scum. Math/Hoopla are scum team, and KTS is the trusty third option.

I'll start on Math's request. Hopefully I can finish it before twilight ends.

First thank you for doing that in a nice succinct manner. I think we can then determine the following:

If Hiplop flips scum hooray -- Those three people are probably town. As I said earlier don't see Hiplop and Elyse being scum together. Grendel scum is IMHO all kinds of wrong and Egg I don't see with Hiplop so that would make Wingback scum for that atrocious hammer or scum was off the wagon but leaning Wingback.

If Hiplop flips town then one of the three in Elyse/Grendel/Egg is scum based on vote count.

My gut is probably Egg of those and how Wingback shut down my entry into the game, Wingback or KTS are Egg's partner.

IMHO all three of Egg/Wingback/KTS need scrutiny.

[Wingback]

If Hoopla flips town, pretty sure it's Mathblade/Egg. The all the people tunneled in on her better sit and read the whole game and think about considering all options.

[MathBlade]

I explicitly said Hoopla was at L-1 when I voted./quote]
Right, and I explicitly said I was hammering and posted the reasons why. You are acting like I was pretending to not know that I hammered.

I didn't hammer because anybody asked me to. I felt that with the state of the game (Elyse, Grendel, Egg, Math) all set on Hoopla, if I try to lynch someone else today and wind up being wrong, that's pretty much game over if Hoopla is town. This way, everyone gets a chance to re-evaluate. I was also questioning my townread on Hoopla given low activity level and not much to go on since I replaced in.

General paranoia does not excuse sheeping a scumread.

What general paranoia? Where did I sheep anyone, let alone a scumread?

This over-reaction pretty much confirms Math as scum. She's spewing rubbish and if she's not vigged or lynched tomorrow, I'll be very disappointed.

Yes you did. You were waffling back and forth on Egg/Hoopla of which to do.

I was the only person posting anything other than one liners. Then you just "decide" to follow my suggestion of Hoopla. Following someone is sheeping! And you just did it to a scumread without trying to figure out the game. If you seriously thought I was scum you would have posted arguments.

Not referenced a completed game that you yourself debunked. You are trying to create an excuse for what was an anti town hammer and didn't even allow me to catch up with people.

I have to go to a work meeting but this was bad by Wingback.

[Wingback]

I'm fucking glad I hammered though since it outed Mathblade as scum. I'd have going around in circles trying to figure out who it was if this series of events didn't happen.

[Wingback]

As I said earlier don't see Hiplop and Elyse being scum together.

Your opening posts were all geared towards showing us how Elyse and Hoopla were cross-bussing so no, that's not what you said earlier.

Can't keep your story straight I see.

[Hoopla]

I'm town and I support this combo:

If Hoopla flips town, pretty sure it's Mathblade/Egg. The all the people tunneled in on her better sit and read the whole game and think about considering all options.

Elyse, pull your head in and help out Wingback tomorrow.

[Dierfire]

D3 FINAL COUNT

Hoopla (5): Elyse, Grendel, Egg, MathBlade, Wingback

Egg (1): Hoopla
MathBlade (1): BBmolla
Elyse (1): Killthestory