Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

Chrimi
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Post Post #250  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:58 pm

In post 249, AstralFlare wrote:Wait wait wait what's a VI again

Village Idiot.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Village_Idiot

0x40
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Post Post #251  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:32 pm

Here are my reads so far:
Jibs: Seems to be extremely overconfident in some of his reads, putting shannon at 31% scum for very minor reasons, and townreading Rocnix at 19% scum for seemingly no reason at all. He thinks policy lynching is a good enough of an idea to bring it up, which is insane from a town perspective. Lynching based on policy rather than lynching whoever is the most scummy is extremely anti-town. He wants Chrimi to not get replaced and doesn't give a good explanation why. 32% scum.

Chrimi: Isn't really scumhunting much, is very selective in the questions she chooses to answer, selfvoted during rvs, votes implosion for some strange reason, and doesn't seem to have much of a read on anyone. 30% scum.

thenewearth: Pretty much all her posts are completely useless. Seems to have basically no reads whatsoever on anyone, and has done next to no scumhunting. 27% scum.

shannon: Doesn't seem to have any reads on anyone either, but seems to at least trying to scumhunt. 23% scum.

implosion: Hasn't really given much of a read on anyone since post #33, but that's kinda understandable considering that not much has happened in this game so far. 23% scum.

AstralFlare: Is supposedly working on a readlist that will be posted today. Been actively scumhunting. 22% scum.

PenguinPower: Makes a reasonable case against Chrimi in #110. Has a readlist that makes sense. 20% scum.

Rocnix: Has a readlist that's almost identical to PenguinPower's. Not much else to go by. 23% scum.

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Post Post #252  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:39 pm

Alright, here it is. 0x40, stop it with the Chrimi thing. All you're doing is frustrating people and derailing conversation. If Chrimi is scum, it's not because of having alt accounts. Let's find something *in this game* that's relevant to alignment. It's actually really hard to get a read on anyone with this whole thing going on, it's distracting and I don't like it.

In post 224, Chrimi wrote:
In post 223, 0x40 wrote:
In post 219, Chrimi wrote:I already gave you a reason why I can't. Remove your vote, or find a real reason why I'm scummy.

What reason? And saying that your meta is useless is not a valid reason, because that's simply not true.

1. There are many players who believe meta is bogus.
2. Alternate accounts are made to try different playstyles, or to enjoy people not knowing who your main is.
3. Me giving the username(s) of my alt(s) is completely pointless and doesn't help town or scum.


Basically, this.

Also, for what it's worth - meta isn't necessarily helpful to town. I won my first time as scum, quite comprehensively with both of us still alive. Next game, one of the players was the moderator from my scum game, who knew all my tells and tricks from watching me do it ... and he town read me all game, we made it to MYLO, and I won again, as scum. Meta doesn't always help town. So let's just play this game and let Chrimi have alts, OK?

0x40
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Post Post #253  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:45 pm

In post 248, Chrimi wrote:Oooh, Jibs is the scummiest in your opinion now? Are you going to switch votes to him, or continue voting me on the alt thing anyways?

I also find it ironic that you're talking about people making a half-decent case on you, yet you continue to vote me over the fact that I have alts.

Calling someone VI for their RVS vote is just silly. If anything, your push on me has been hugely distracting for town and definitely to the detriment to the game as a whole. As the mod stated, try to attack the argument, not the player. Pretty sure wishing for another player to replace out is similarly attacking the player.

On another note, let's say I'm not a player with five years of experience, but instead just a VI. Why would you want to policy lynch me before we get into the day enough to gain any information? Policy lynches are usually done because of a significantly bad playstyle that will hurt town in the long run. Me not wanting to give the names to my alts for non-game related reasons isn't harmful to town. And even if it was, are you saying it's harmful enough to town to justify a policy lynch by page 10?

I want to hear more from Jibs before making a decision on moving my vote or not.

I'm not voting you because you have alts.

Calling someone a VI for not really making an rvs vote, other than that self vote that you unvoted like 3 posts later, is a perfectly valid reason. I don't think wishing for better players that aren't VIs doesn't count as an attack against said VIs.

Being a VI has nothing to do with having x years of experience. Maybe you should go read the wiki page that you just linked yourself instead of pretending that you know what a VI is.
When did I ever say that I wanted to policy lynch you? (Nowhere, because I don't)

0x40
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Post Post #254  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:48 pm

In post 252, shannon wrote:Also, for what it's worth - meta isn't necessarily helpful to town. I won my first time as scum, quite comprehensively with both of us still alive. Next game, one of the players was the moderator from my scum game, who knew all my tells and tricks from watching me do it ... and he town read me all game, we made it to MYLO, and I won again, as scum. Meta doesn't always help town.

That doesn't mean that it never helps town, either. Having access to more of a person's meta is strictly better than having access to less, because you can make more better reads. I really don't get how this is such a hard consent to grasp for some people.

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Post Post #255  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:41 pm

0x40: "Jibs is scum for wanting a policy lynch!"
0x40, next post: "We should policy lynch Chrimi for not giving her alts up"

Next:
0x40: "Calling someone a VI for not really making an rvs vote, other than that self vote that you unvoted like 3 posts later, is a perfectly valid reason."
Um. What? Why is not voting during RVS scummy? There are several players that refuse to participate in rvs regardless of alignment.

Next:
0x40: "I don't think wishing for better players that aren't VIs doesn't count as an attack against said VIs."
Yes, telling a player you wish they would replace out is fucking rude. I consider myself a pretty decent player. You're of the opinion that I'm a VI while, ironically, following the exact definition of VI.

You tell me to read the wiki page for VI, so I will. I'll read it to you. Ready?
"Village Idiot (VI for short) is slang for a player who seems to habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them. Most of the time, this tendency is due to inexperience with the game."
This is exactly what you're doing. You're telling another player to replace out unless they give you the names of their alts; This is totally rude and incorrect of you, and you don't seem to understand the consequences of saying them. I'm assuming this is due to your inexperience with the game.

Yes, wishing a player would replace out is an attack on that player and it's rude as fuck. Stop it.

The IC has already told you this alt stuff is bullshit and to drop it, using their capacity as IC. The moderator has asked not to personally attack people; I assume they were referring to us, partially because I did say some rude things but also because you're literally telling a player to replace out. Stop it or I will blacklist you from any game I play in or moderate for the rest of your time here on the site.

implosion
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Post Post #256  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:54 pm

You all sure do like being active when I'm at work.

A note here, it's typically considered nice to spoiler really really long posts just so that the pages they're on are more readable, as otherwise anyone scrolling through the page has to scroll through the wallpost.
Spoiler: Long wallpost
AstralFlare wrote:Implosion: Could you separate the IC part of your posts from the play part? It's difficult to tell which is which. In my previous game the IC's theory posts were a different color.

Sure. There's a line in this post, everything above that line is me speaking as the IC.
Rocnix wrote:(Speaking of which, there might be some reverse-OMGUS messing with my read on Jibs. Is there a term for that?)

I don't think there's a term for it but it's certainly a thing that you can be suspicious of in some situations. Scum will sometimes "pocket" townies which basically just means townreading a townie in an attempt to get the townie to reciprocally townread the scum. Like everything in mafia it's just a matter of whether you think they're being genuine; if you think the read on you is genuinely motivated from a place of scumhunting then it's townish, if you feel like they're trying to manipulate you and can explain why it might be scummy.

AstralFlare wrote:@IC: How do you differentiate between anti-town townie and anti-town scummie?

Because I'm having a hard time deciding which Chrimi is right now.

Lots of experience mostly I'd say. I mean, imo, scumtells are all about intent - you have to read the intent behind the post and try to figure out if it's a townie who is accidentally being anti-town, or scum who is intentionally trying to be anti-town. There are lots of ways to be anti-town (lurking, bogging the game down, quickhammering, etc) and it's always about the context around it. If you think Chrimi or anyone else is being anti-town and that it may be scum-motivated then the first thing you should ask is "could Chrimi potentially have done this as town?" And then if the answer is yes then you need to weigh how likely you think it would be that she'd do whatever actions you perceive as anti-town as town vs to intentionally bog the game down or whatever other reason as scum. There's also a hidden third option here, which is that she could be scum but isn't really acting that way in an attempt to be anti-town (she may, for instance, simply be trying to emulate her town meta). And then of course there's a hidden fourth option, which may be the most common of all, which is that a personality clash can lead to one party seeing the other as being anti-town or scummy. Etc, etc.

So yeah. It's tough sometimes. Like I said, probably mostly a matter of experience. There's no real formula for it.

0x40 wrote:This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen from an IC. This is based on a false premise that Chrimi cares so little about winning the game for town that she's using out-of-game reasons to justify making an anti-town play, which by the way, would even go against the site rule of "Play to win the game."

Although it is a hard and fast rule, there are limits to the rule "play to win the game," in a sense. For instance, we don't demand that you spend 24 hours a day staring into your computer screen trying to deduce the scum if you're town - we don't even really demand that you're particularly active, even though one could easily argue that, say, posting less than once a day is not playing to win. It's just an aspect of the site that there are hidden alts. The existence of those hidden alts, again, is not related to specific games. By hiding those alts in general, people are not refusing to play to win the game in a particular game.

Even if you are still convinced by this point, and are still factoring it into your analysis, I'd recommend you not pursue it much more - it's okay to scumread Chrimi for refusing to list her hydra (even if other players disagree with you, and even if I would recommend that you not), but it is not okay to repeatedly demand that she give up information that, to her, is personal information not related to this game. If someone hypothetically demanded to know my schedule at work so that they could figure out when I was most tired while posting and attempt to use that to figure out when my posts were most likely to give me away as scum, I would rightly tell them no. Likewise, if Chrimi does not want to say who her hydra account is then she has every right to not say it.




Alright, everything above that line is IC stuff, everything down here will be not-IC stuff.

Rocnix wrote: My gut feeling says not to trust him, but there are more scummy candidates. (Also, there might be some OMGUS messing with my interpretation) (Speaking of which, there might be some reverse-OMGUS messing with my read on Jibs. Is there a term for that?)

My main interpretation of shannon's behavior is "impressed." Her reaction test focused on the larger picture, so she's probably townhunting more than scumhunting. My guess is that she's either a power role exploring the situation or scum searching for ideal targets.

thenewearth seems quite detached from the whole situation, which seems kind of scummy to me. However, it's consistent with her meta, so I'm at a null read until she has some pressure on her and/or actually gives her interpretation of things, which isn't likely to happen.

This whole reads post () also feels a bit off to me, in a somewhat similar way from the previous one. There's a lot of her sort of building in room for her reads to be wrong. These are a couple of examples of that. It's not just that she isn't committing to reads - it's that she's putting her reads in terms that are really never likely to be resolved. Gut says not to trust me but there are scummier people so she isn't focusing on me, and may not for a bit. Shannon might be scum or might be a pr, but there's never really any way to use that to figure out if she's scum without her claim. tne is scummy but it's consistent with her meta, and she says it's unlikely that she'll be able to figure out tne's alignment based on that. What these reads have in common is that they're sort of dead ends - they all explain decently well why Rocnix isn't sure about people, but they also give excuses for why Rocnix won't be able to read people in the future, which leaves her more maneuvering room if she's scum.

Chrimi does that AstralFlare's post is misleading but I don't think it's in a scummy way, I think AstralFlare simply saw her quoting his post (and just saw the question in between by PP as rephrasing his post) and thought she was responding to that question.

0x40 wrote:It's still anti-town, and therefore it's indicative of being scum. Even if it's just a minor scumtell, it's not like we have much else to go by at this point in the game.

Like I mentioned above, anti-town is not strictly indicative of scum. And what do you mean, we don't have much else to go by at this point? There have been tons of substantive posts to analyze, multiple players have given full reads lists, and even if those reads lists are lacking (have a lot of null reads) they're still a good place to start analysis.

Gonna post this before starting on catching up on page 10 because >.>wallpost

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Post Post #257  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:07 pm

From now on any short posts that are me speaking as IC will be specifically marked as such; any longer posts, I will use the same method as the previous post (IC stuff above the line, non-IC stuff below the line). This is not an IC post.

FTR I really do strongly disagree with the characterization of Chrimi as an anti-town VI. She's providing a lot of reasoned content, and just because you disagree with that content does not make her a VI, or anti-town. This refers to both AstralFlare and 0x40. And I really do think in both of these cases it is mostly just disagreement.

In post 245, 0x40 wrote:
In post 243, Jibs wrote:nice to policy

And finally something that's actually really alignment indicative is said. A lynch for reasons other than trying to lynch scum is only nice for scum. You are the scummiest right now by far in my opinion, and we're not policy lynching anyone this game for any reason. That will only benefit scum.

You seem to view a lot of things in black and white: hiding information can only be done by scum, being anti-town can only be done by scum, and now the mere mention of a policy lynch in a post that isn't even advocating it is the scummiest thing yet in the game. I'm curious to see if this same tone pervades your reads list - there's a lot of nuance in the game of mafia, because all of the black-and-white scumtells were phased out back a decade ago when scum realized that they were black-and-white scumtells and that they shouldn't do them (and when towns realized that they aren't actually black and white because townies do them sometimes too), and any black-and-white towntells were phased out when scum realized they could just emulate them.

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Post Post #258  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:08 pm

Anyway, right now I feel like this is the best vote (at least for now):

Unvote
VOTE: Rocnix

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Post Post #259  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:30 pm

So, I've got an extreme read on 0x40. They're either really obvTown or they're fkn scum, but I can't really tell and I feel like my position is biased at the moment because of our recent interaction. I'll wait for more stuff to happen with other people today before I make a real read here. :u

I definitely appreciate implosion separating IC from not-IC stuff, as it makes him significantly more readable. However I feel like he's fence sitting way too much (maybe this is just because he's trying to mediate as IC). Light scumread from the fence sitting, but nothing at all serious enough to justify a vote or even a case.

Jibs is very interesting. I'd have to say this is a strong townread from me, and it's pretty easy to say so. His scumhunting isn't the best, but it definitely feels genuine at the very least. I find his whole saying "hello" to someone at the beginning of every post kind of strange, but that's definitely a playstyle thing and NAI as far as I can tell.

I can't read much on Rocnix at this point other than they're new and having trouble getting substantial reads because of it. As a result I can't get a read on them :L

shannon is a fairly okay townread of mine. I know this isn't popular opinion but her posts make sense, in general. The only real issue I have is post 51 (voting me for having alts ffs). Their reads (the few that they've posted) seem to line up with mine alright. I would like to see more content, and a full readslist.

Total null on thenewearth because 90% of their content has been similar to mine; refuting this whole "alts are scummy!!!" thing. The other 10% seems joking or semi-serious at best. Can't wait for them to post stuff related to the game :u

I really dislike Penguin refusing to drop his case originally even after all his points had been responded to in full, but he has dropped it since and I appreciate it. However, his readslist pings me hard. Is it too early to call AstroFlare+Penguin scumteam? (Yes I'm partially joking here.) He's got a lot of nulls, and leaning town, and his only scum lean is on me (which I definitely can't agree with), so I really dislike his reads. Gonna go with scumlean for this one.

Speaking of AstroFlare:
Spoiler: Case
In post 59, AstralFlare wrote:Not voting at this stage is in fact scummy. While it's true that we're on page three, it has been a Very Serious Game so far. We're pretty much out of RVS, and are already very much in actual discussion. Your vote would be valued here as a means to add pressure on someone, so we can gauge their response for any scumminess.

Because.. Not voting at this stage isn't scummy?


And something about the tone of this just strikes me the wrong way. It reads like you're trying really hard to avoid appearing scummy.

Total misrepresentation. I still don't know how the fuck you're hearing tone from a text-based game, but my tone was obviously sarcasm. Not voting during RVS isn't scummy, and I considered us still in RVS because the only people who thought they were "out" of RVS were making dumb votes based on my RVS vote.

In post 60, AstralFlare wrote:To clarify, it makes it seem like you will only do stuff because that will make you look unscummy.

Yes, because I'd selfvote and claim scum in my first post in order to look unscummy and blend in.

In post 103, AstralFlare wrote:Penguin has done well, nothing, but I don't think that's uncommon for a game five pages in?

Yet I'm scum for not voting by page 3, right? :b


Chrimi: To be honest she sounded very much like outraged townie in her play at the end of page three. Which was fairly solid to me in terms of tone as well as content. But then I completely disagreed with everything she said on Page 4. Her tone shifted as well to become even more defensive, going from outraged townie to afraid scum. I'm happy with where my vote is right now, at least until she continued dodging and stopped supporting her wildest claims. (eg end of 99) (More on this later.)

Page four? Let me see what page four was about... Oh right, it was mine and implosion's disagreement. Let's see what you have to say about that:

On Chrimi's vote on imp: This is OMGUS. It seems from her explanation that this was purely based on a meta disagreement.

Ohhh, right. My disagreement with implosion, which took up most of page four, was based on a meta disagreement. But of course, at the same time, according to you, I was dodging and my "tone" was changing from outraged townie to afraid scum.
Riiight.

Other SEs, what do you think of this:

Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.

"Please discredit her playstyle!"


VOTE: AstralFlare

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Post Post #260  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:53 pm

Hello folks. I'm a bit too wired to sleep right now. This game is making me feel so many feels.

UNVOTE:

Imp, Chrimi, tne, is 0x40 obvious town? Have you ever played in a game where scum just decided to go aggro like this? I want to make that townread, but stuff like this gives me pause:

In post 222, 0x40 wrote:
In post 193, AstralFlare wrote:0x40: Same as Chrimi, but thoughts on people besides Chrimi.

In post 215, Jibs wrote:Out of me, shannon, imp, and rocnix, who is most likely to be scum?

I'm gonna read the thread again more thoroughly when I get home, but as for now, nothing from them really stands out as all that AI to me. I have a very minor townread on Jibs, implosion, and Rocnix, because those 3 have contributed the most so far in my opinion, so shannon would be the scummiest out of those, but not by much.


Like this feels so out of character for tunneltown. Why is he just doing his homework here and telling me what I want to hear? Why respond at all?

I don't know what to think of his omgus onto me. It feels very much in character, but I don't know what that says about his alignment. I do like the fact that he is talking about me rather than to me, that feels like he is actually trying to lynch scum.

I'm townreading Imp, and his points on rocnix feel pretty good, I think I will go back into her ISO.

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Post Post #261  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Sorry Chrimi, I don't know how i missed your post rofl.

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Post Post #262  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:56 pm

Umm, sorry for not being confident? I'll try to do better.

Based on the sudden attack on Jibs, 0x40 reads like town motivated primarily by OMGUS at this point, so
UNVOTE: 0x40

VOTE: thenewearth
I'm no longer considering meta as a viable reason for my null read. Mind posting a readlist?


In post 259, Chrimi wrote:I can't read much on Rocnix at this point other than they're new and having trouble getting substantial reads because of it. As a result I can't get a read on them :L

It looks like that's going to cause some issues for during this game, so if anyone has any questions or guidance I'd be glad to hear it.

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Post Post #263  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:57 pm

*cause some issues for me during this game

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Post Post #264  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:55 pm

Hello Chrimi.

In post 259, Chrimi wrote:So, I've got an extreme read on 0x40. They're either really obvTown or they're fkn scum, but I can't really tell and I feel like my position is biased at the moment because of our recent interaction. I'll wait for more stuff to happen with other people today before I make a real read here. :u


As above, this is where I'm at too.

I definitely appreciate implosion separating IC from not-IC stuff, as it makes him significantly more readable. However I feel like he's fence sitting way too much (maybe this is just because he's trying to mediate as IC). Light scumread from the fence sitting, but nothing at all serious enough to justify a vote or even a case.


Imp's most alignment-loaded post is here:

In post 182, implosion wrote:
Jibs wrote:How do you feel about PP? You are still voting him if my notes are right.

The points you make against him are decent. He's an alright candidate for scum but not particularly solidly so. I don't really have any scumreads at this point except for 0x40 contingent on his play in the near future. I'd say {AstralFlare, you, shannon and thenewearth} are town in no particular order right now but all of those are subject to change and my reads aren't particularly strong even for being this early in the game (shannon is because of the reaction test which I think looks decently town, tne is gut for now based on tone near the end of the exchange with 0x40). Chrimi I've talked about, Rocnix is another decent candidate for scum I think. Her more recent reads list has a tone of IIoA (information instead of analysis) to me. Out of 8 players she gives 3 reads, and the other 5 are essentially straight descriptions of their play that don't really mean anything.


From your perspective, who would his scumbuddy be? I think he would bother to make up a reason for townreading af if he was scum with af, but maybe I'm being paranoid here.

In any case, I don't see imp's behavior as fence sitting--his null on you seems like a reasonable read for town!imp to make.

Jibs is very interesting. I'd have to say this is a strong townread from me, and it's pretty easy to say so. His scumhunting isn't the best, but it definitely feels genuine at the very least. I find his whole saying "hello" to someone at the beginning of every post kind of strange, but that's definitely a playstyle thing and NAI as far as I can tell.


^__^ my polite demeanor is fake as shit lol.

shannon is a fairly okay townread of mine. I know this isn't popular opinion but her posts make sense, in general. The only real issue I have is post 51 (voting me for having alts ffs). Their reads (the few that they've posted) seem to line up with mine alright. I would like to see more content, and a full readslist.


I don't understand this read. was the setup for the gambit shannon revealed in . If you like shannon, you like 51...?

I really dislike Penguin refusing to drop his case originally even after all his points had been responded to in full, but he has dropped it since and I appreciate it. However, his readslist pings me hard. Is it too early to call AstroFlare+Penguin scumteam? (Yes I'm partially joking here.) He's got a lot of nulls, and leaning town, and his only scum lean is on me (which I definitely can't agree with), so I really dislike his reads. Gonna go with scumlean for this one.


I don't mean to be a jerk, but it feels like you are mostly reading the game in terms of how much people like you. shannon seems to think you are town, and you townread her, but pp took too long to drop his case on you and af is tunneling so they get scumreads. I agree that AstralFlare+PP would be a reasonable team in the world where there was 1 scum voting you and 1 waffling about whether or not to vote you. But do we really live in that world? Why can't af just be stuck in a tunnel?

I don't exactly have a scumread on you, but at this point I feel more comfortable sheeping tne or imp than you. tne's play may be trollish, but I somehow get the sense that she is a little bit more... open minded about how the game is playing out. imp's read on you in was perfect and probably not so easy to make for somebody who knows your flip.

I agree that I would like to see more from pp and af.

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Post Post #265  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:59 pm

What the fuck does "open minded about how the game is playing out" mean?

I'm sorry you feel like I'm playing that way, but you're wrong. :u

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Post Post #266  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:05 am

Hello imp!

I could maybe be convinced to lynch Rocnix, depending on how things go from here. I would like tne and you to weigh in on 0x40 first--it's clear that I just don't have the experience to read him. Also, where are you on af, is he still a townread? Why do you think he is tunneling Chrimi on stuff that you think is NAI?

Hello Rocnix!

While you were interacting with 0x40 in posts 240-247, what was your read on him? It seemed like you were spending a lot of time correcting his amusing misinterpretations of my posts, but very little time accusing him of being scum. Why?

Hello Chrimi!

Tne is apparently tunneling shannon, which is open minded in terms of being wildly at odds with thread sentiment. I guess it's closed minded in the literal sense that she refuses to change her mind.

I don't mean to discount your reads, especially when I'm reading the game so poorly. I will definitely keep af and pp in mind as possible lynches. If you are town, I think it is likely that we will need your vote in order to lynch scum, and I am very happy that you took the time to post a read wall.

If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.

shannon
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Post Post #267  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:09 am

Quickie reads list, and thanks to Implosion for separating his IC self from his game self. Order of people copied from page 1 so I didn't miss anyone.

1. Jibs - Previously a weak town read because he called me out over my reaction test, which I thought was fair enough. Something from his 264 set me off, asking Chrimi re: Implosion - "From your perspective, who would his scumbuddy be? I think he would bother to make up a reason for townreading af if he was scum with af, but maybe I'm being paranoid here". This, to me, reads like a newbie rushing in to defend his scum buddy (implosion in this case) unnecessarily. So I'm keeping an eye on Jibs now.

2. AstralFlare - I like Astral Flare for town, especially for his comment to PP in 193. Pointing out these sorts of inconsistencies (i.e. scum reading but not voting) is good town play.

3. PenguinPower - Not much to go on, to be honest. Engages with Chrimi over the alt thing and then responds to Jibs, but there's not much more to see. Null I guess.

4. 0x40 - Scummish for the tunnelling of Chrimi over the alt issue, but could have been a TvT thing driven by personality. Keeping an eye on him.

5. Rocnix - I'm getting decently town vibes, her play reads like newbie town. Lots of questions, referring to the wiki, but also calling out things like misrepresentation. Asking for reads lists a lot is something that I think new town does, when they're unsure of how to really participate themselves.

6. Chrimi (SE) - Still think she's frustrated town.

7. thenewearth (SE) - It's bothering me that the SE hasn't provided much content, beyond a defense of alts. Unsure whether this is because of business elsewhere or general lurkerdom. Has to be null for now.

8. shannon (SE) - Me! Town! Yeah!

9. implosion (IC) - I can't get a read here, Implosion is a much better player than I am and I have seen the whole 'reasonable town leader' thing from scum as well as from town. I think I'm going to have to wait for a flip before I know anything much about him.

shannon
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Post Post #268  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:10 am

Changing my VOTE: Jibs because I'm more suss of him than of 0x40 right now. Will do a proper read again tonight x

Rocnix
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Post Post #269  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:59 am

In post 266, Jibs wrote:Hello Rocnix!

While you were interacting with 0x40 in posts 240-247, what was your read on him? It seemed like you were spending a lot of time correcting his amusing misinterpretations of my posts, but very little time accusing him of being scum. Why?


Essentially I wanted to see if he could present a better argument. When 0x40 moved away from tunneling Chrimi and towards lashing out at people who disagreed with him, my read on him shifted from "looking for easy lynch" to "upset about disagreements." Besides, if he was operating on a disagreement-based OMGUS, accusing him of scumhood would not be the best way to get a coherent reaction. I tried to point out that you weren't misrepresenting him either.

(Also, I'm trying to avoid alienating people, because I definitely need information and clarification from the more experienced players, and will continue to need that throughout the game. Asking for opinions is a way to get more info from people without offending them, though based on people's reactions I'm guessing it's not as useful as I thought it was, so I'll try to be a bit more aggressive.)

implosion
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Post Post #270  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:08 am

@Jibs

I think if I had to take a guess atm I'd say 0x40 is town. The way in which he's being stubborn seems a bit more likely to come from town to me. The fact that he kept being obstinate after pressure was put on him shows he values that opinion more than he values not being pressured, which is likely town. It could be scum who just held to their laurels but I'd lean town on him atm.

AstralFlare is still a townread but probably one who I should re-evaluate, although not right now. Different people will always perceive the game differently and so disagreeing on, say, whether something is alignment-indicative isn't really reason to scumread someone in and of itself. I'll read Chrimi's case later when I'm fully awake.

Rocnix
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Post Post #271  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:19 am

In post 266, Jibs wrote:If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.

(For reference, he was talking to Chrimi)

Okay, I have to question this. Not the fact that he considered me a viable scumpartner for Chrimi, but that he couldn't give evidence. On page 1 I unvoted her when she complained about being at L-2, and throughout the argument about the alts I was suspicious of 0x40 and read her as a frustrated townie. IMO this would be really easy to interpret as newbie scum messing up an attempt to bus and then defending their scumpartner. So, I'm not seeing the narrative (or lack thereof?) of town!Jibs. Care to explain?

(Is this a better level of interrogation?)

thenewearth
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Post Post #272  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:57 am

Nah

thenewearth
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Post Post #273  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:58 am

UNVOTE:

VOTE: 0x40

thenewearth
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Post Post #274  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:58 am

Just because I'm SE doesn't mean I'm obliged to be nice, btw

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