Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[hasdgfas]

semi-random

vote: Mastermind of Sin

[hasdgfas]

semi-random

vote: Mastermind of Sin

why semi-random? EXPLAIN YOUR REASONING.

Unvote, Vote: Hasdgfas

I was wondering what people would say about that. by semi-random, I only meant that I actually picked a name to vote for rather than using random.org or some such actual random generator.
Shouldn't it be obvious that nobody has any info yet? Why would I have reasoning? It was just a random vote by a different name.

[hasdgfas]

So how did we get a BM BW already?

Oh, I forgot to mention:

EXPLAIN YOUR REASONING.

Very nice, I like

[hasdgfas]

I would like to hear the case against BM as well. As he well knows, I like reasons behind votes. From what I understand, Panzer had one, but I didn't understand panzer's comment at all. Clarification would be nice there.

[hasdgfas]

ok. this bandwagon seems to have more behind it than the BM one.

unvote, vote:peers

[hasdgfas]

Why aren't Jordan, schis, and ABR getting FoSes for doing the exact same thing Panzer?

[hasdgfas]

I would love to give reasoning.

Besides... random phase. You vote for people randomly, you let them off the hook randomly, until someone things they see a pattern in the randomness and then everyone decides if that person is right or if that person is scum.

Although this has been said, the random phase is only the first few votes of the game, and even those aren't always random. Once people have started saying something of any substance whatsoever, people start looking closely at what is said. So saying that the random phase allows you to do stuff randomly until "someone sees a pattern in the randomness" is extremely suspicious.

Yeah, yeah, pile votes on the guy who tends to go hyper-defensive and get himself lynched. I've learned from my past games... I'm not over-reacting or getting hyper-defensive from now on. Maybe if the bandwagon against me had, y'know, players I knew and respected, I'd take it more seriously.

IMO, you should at least try to defend yourself somewhat rather than saying "Oh no, a bandwagon on me. I hope I don't get too defensive and have people lynch me." I don't see that as a defense. It's more of a deflection. While I do realize that ABR said:

I don't like him shifting responsibility instead of providing a reasoning for his actions.

I was trying to say that he didn't even mention the other people who just jumped on the wagon for no reason and was asking what the reason for that was.

Unvote
vote: BM:

And if I need a reason, it's... um... due to frequent and recurring votehopping. Or something else that sounds similarly random yet not-random. Or whatever.

He could at least try to show that he had a good reason for jumping on the bandwagon rather than making something up that he tried to make sound good. It seemed like just jumping on the bandwagon while trying to look as unsuspicious as possible.

[hasdgfas]

yes, I realize that. I'm sorry that they posted their reasons before I did. I can't just make up random reasons on the spot, and even if I did, it would make me look even more suspicious because the reasons would be crap.

[hasdgfas]

vote hasdgfas

for doing exactly in this game what he's voting me for in another game

uhhh, I'm pretty sure I just gave reasoning, even though it's the same as other people's

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: and my vote without reasoning wasn't a hammer btw.

[hasdgfas]

Yeah, Newbie 484 pretty much sucked, but he seems to be playing similarly here. I'm getting town vibes from him. I'm still not liking peers. See: everyone's posts about him.

[hasdgfas]

Hi MoS

[hasdgfas]

Unvote
Vote:Sikario8

That's quite obvious. His vote was scummy as hell. Just when everyone called him out he voted on a bandwagon.

Hmm... I voted jokingly, why are you voting? Do you want my phone number?

You were...joking? About what, exactally?

About voting hasd in general. I'm still a bit bitter from him whooping my ass in some other game he played with me. Him and AmberNJ tore me apart...and killed me, I think...

You totally deserved it sikario. Especially after your non-defense defense.
However, this appears to be similar to how he played as town in that game. While it's very...iffy, I'm leaning town for sikario right now. We'll see where it goes from here though

[hasdgfas]

Oh, for crying out loud... Am I at L-1 yet? L-2? Anything like that?

Peers, your "content" is not making me want to unvote you. I haven't seen a very good defense, so my vote stays.

[hasdgfas]

Got my prod, re-reading now. Hoping to get something up very soon.

Also, limited to no access until monday.

[hasdgfas]

Ok, the only things that I have time to say right now are that Peers's reactions have been iffy, and I don't like his "case" on neo-viper. Staying level-headed is what you need to do in this game. Also, there's multiple reasons to stay under the radar. That's about all I can say right now before I have to leave for vacation.

[hasdgfas]

...however, with recent happenings and a death in teh fucking family, I've FORGOTTEN WHY.

Sikario, all you had to do was say that. I mean, we're still just playing a game here and obviously your family and you as a person are more important than this game we're in. I completely understand your situation and I hope you get through it all right. I wish you the best.

Back to the game, I have returned from my vacation and am re-reading to try to get a handle on things.

[hasdgfas]

We need more pressure on Jordan.

why?

[hasdgfas]

please

less talking

more lynching toaster strudel

Of course, given that you have no parts to your case, it's rather easy.

Reasons, man, you need to give reasons!

Forget it, I'm after Thanatos now, I refute the Mos wagon on the basis of a better wagon.

Going after Thanatos is like hunting baby birds in their nests.

Going after MoS is like hunting tiger.

I'm going to join MoS and policy lynch you in every game I'm in.

Is that from a different game that's going on right now?

[hasdgfas]

I haven't seen Shanba in a while either

[hasdgfas]

Guys, it's day 1. It's basically a random lynch, since it's really hard to get enough good info from day 1 in order to get a correct lynch. So unless Quag has a role with a Day 1 only choice, him not reading his role PM isn't that huge a deal.

[hasdgfas]

If he is scum, it is more pro-town, because he'll be scum-hunting just like the rest of us, so we might have one extra townie for at least a day.

[hasdgfas]

Quag, it may be helpful for you not to read your Role PM, but it seriously disadvantages the rest of us, since you don't know what your alignment is on Day 1, and, if you're scum, you don't know who your buddies are, that makes all of your posts on Day 1 completely useless for trying to find your alignment/possible scumbuddies. Even if you're town, it disadvantages the town, because now, everybody's talking about you not reading your Role PM, rather than discussing about who's scum, it just wastes time and clogs the thread, and puts unnecessary pressure on yourself.

I say we not worry about Quagmire's role PM at this point because as you say, it is what we're talking about instead of scum-hunting. We can try to find scumtells the same way as we do every game, except that one player doesn't know his role. This gives us an advantage because he's playing as a townie. If he changes his playstyle significantly tomorrow, or again says that he didn't read his role PM, we can lynch him then, but right now, he's on our side, no matter what his role PM says.

[hasdgfas]

Meh. Even MoS doesn't look so great anymore.

just because someone disagrees with you and/or doesn't want to lynch Quag doesn't make them scum.

Even if he read his role pm its not like he can backtrack and go after someone else now.

He wasted his day1 and our time

, now we lynch him.

•

Did anyone come up with a rebuttal for this?

Him not reading his role PM doesn't mean he's wasting anyone's time. If he's scum, it's a great play because then he's hard to read. If he's town, he can just play as a townie and not worry about any possible power role that he has. The reason our time is being wasted is because everyone's making such a big deal over this.

[hasdgfas]

I say we lynch Quag and, once/if he turns up scum, we lynch has next; however, it's only a suggestion to the town.

Wow, setting up lynches now sikario? And then saying that it's only a suggestion. That is quite suspicious.

FoS: sikario

[hasdgfas]

I think setting up lynches is more of a scumtell than OMGUS.

[hasdgfas]

I didn't even vote for sikario.

[hasdgfas]

When Quag almost got lynched you tried to stop it because you knew he was town. Then you try to frame Sikario for 'trying to set up a lynch', which is BULLSHIT that you've constructed.

Sikario said we lynch Quagmire iirc, because that person is scum. Whenever Quagmire is proven scum and dead, we move on to lynch his hasdgfas (iirc). Unless Sikario is bussing his partner Quagmire, the only person trying to set someone up is you.

Now die.

No, I tried to stop it because it was a completely idiotic reason for lynching someone. And, in case you didn't notice, sikario

is

trying to set up a lynch. He said that we should lynch Quag and then me next if Quag comes up scum. That is 100% setting up a lynch. I'm not trying to "set someone up", I'm trying to scumhunt, which is hard when we're still stuck on quagmire and his role PM. Especially when people such as you and sikario will not give it up.

I'm not voting for sikario right now, because the only thing I have on him is trying to set up a chain-lynch and the fact that he won't get off of the Quagmire thing. I'm still on Peers because I still think he's scum based on what was said about 15 pages ago. If I see more suspicious stuff from sikario, I'll vote him, but right now, I don't want him lynched.

[hasdgfas]

... damn this game. I... I agree with ABR... I have to go clean my brain out with bleach now...

God help me, ABR is making perfect sense to me.

unvote

Vote: hasdgfas

You seem to agree with ABR a lot when it keeps suspicion off of you.

[hasdgfas]

I say we lynch Quag and, once/if he turns up scum, we lynch has next; however, it's only a suggestion to the town.

Wow, setting up lynches now sikario?

And then saying that it's only a suggestion.

That is quite suspicious.

FoS: sikario

•

I was going to comment on this, but ABR and Peers got to you first. How was I setting up lynches by making suggestions? No sarcasm here, but I'd appreciate if you'd help me out.

When you say that we should lynch someone based on how something else turns out, that is called setting up a chain-lynch, and it's not a good thing. It's something scum often do to try to get the town to follow their logic and lynch more townies. They usually happen based on bad logic as in, "if one person is scum, this other person must be as well." Can you see now what I was seeing? If not, I'm sure someone with more experience can explain to you better what I'm talking about.

I think setting up lynches is more of a scumtell than OMGUS

.

•

Who told you that? Also: Setting up lynches...?

That didn't come out right. It was supposed to be that setting up a chain-lynch is a scumtell, and so is OMGUS. But both of them have problems with using them.

When Quag almost got lynched you tried to stop it because you knew he was town. Then you try to frame Sikario for 'trying to set up a lynch', which is BULLSHIT that you've constructed.

Sikario said we lynch Quagmire iirc, because that person is scum. Whenever Quagmire is proven scum and dead, we move on to lynch his hasdgfas (iirc). Unless Sikario is bussing his partner Quagmire, the only person trying to set someone up is you.

Now die.

No, I tried to stop it because it was a completely idiotic reason for lynching someone. And, in case you didn't notice, sikario

is

trying to set up a lynch. He said that we should lynch Quag and then me next if Quag comes up scum. That is 100% setting up a lynch.

I'm not trying to "set someone up", I'm trying to scumhunt

, which is hard when we're still stuck on quagmire and his role PM.

Especially when people such as you and sikario will not give it up

.

I'm not voting for sikario right now, because

the only thing I have on him is trying to set up a chain-lynch

and the fact that he won't get off of the Quagmire thing. I'm still on Peers because I still think he's scum based on what was said about 15 pages ago. If I see more suspicious stuff from sikario, I'll vote him, but right now,

I don't want him lynched

.

•

What's the difference?

•

Won't give it up? I interacted with Quagmire concerning this and we came to a conclusion. Short, sweet, and to the point.

•

Yay!

Scumhunting is completely different than "setting someone up" or suggesting a chain lynch. Scumhunting is using evidence found from what someone has said to prove them as scum. Setting up a chain lynch is using evidence from someone else to prove them as scum, it's completely different.

... damn this game. I... I agree with ABR... I have to go clean my brain out with bleach now...

God help me, ABR is making perfect sense to me.

unvote

Vote: hasdgfas

You seem to agree with ABR a lot when it keeps suspicion off of you.

•

You seem to be lashing out left and right.

I

don't want to provoke you, I'm just saying that this is how you come off.

More later, I have to go to class...

Um, lashing out? I was making a comment about how Peers seems to follow ABR whenever he changes wagons to someone other than him, possibly so that he can prevent the suspicion from coming back onto him. I'm still voting for Peers because I still find him most suspicious. Right now, I'm looking for ways to show that, and that comment was one of them.

[hasdgfas]

we need more pressure on peers.

[hasdgfas]

He already claimed

where?

[hasdgfas]

all right, I just missed it.

[hasdgfas]

vote: toaster strudel

it seems to be the consensus at this point and I'm not saddened by this lynch.

[hasdgfas]

Yeah, but he's at least talking, and we can still get him tomorrow. TS doesn't seem to be here to defend herself. We can make the mod's job a lot easier if we lynch someone that scummy today. Peers will still be here tomorrow unless he's vigged or something.

[hasdgfas]

I was attempting to state a possibility. I don't care what the (possibly nonexistant) vig does, I was pointing out that that was one of the few ways you wouldn't be here tomorrow.

[hasdgfas]

Well, I'm fine with a Peers lynch or a TS lynch, and I have been for a while. I thought Peers needed more pressure until ABR pointed out that Peers had already claimed, so I switched to TS since she was another lynch I would have been fine with.

[hasdgfas]

my comments in red

Analyzing:
hasdfas a.k.a. "God forbid we should lynch Quagmire"

Special love for MoS

Post #0 - semi-random vote: Mastermind of Sin. What's that all about?

I believe that I mentioned that was a not-truly-random random vote.

Post #1 - Wimpy rebuttal after being attacked for a "semi-random" vote. What's that all about?

What else was I supposed to say?

Post #11 - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 349#834349 - what's that all about?

MoS said Hi. I said Hi back

Post #17 - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 485#853485 - pays special attention to MoS, asking him reasons for voting Jordan. What's that all about?

He said we need more pressure on Jordan. I asked him why because I didn't see anything that was a reason for putting pressure on him

Contradicts himself

Post #3 - berates votes unsupported by reasons.

I was referencing a different game

Post #4 - votes Peers unsupported by reasons.

It's called bandwagoning and it's not unheard of in mafia.

Post #5 - is sad that Jordan, schis, and ABR aren't berated for voting without reason.

Multiple people bandwagon voted, so why does panzer only point out one person who did it?

Post #6 - defends himself against the players that noticed his contradictions.

Because I had reasons for it, so I stated them. That's what I'm supposed to do.

Admits to a complete lack of independent thinking

Post #8 - admits his reasons for voting Peers are exactly the same as other players.
Post #10 - repeats his reason are exactly the same as other players, saying "See: everyone's posts about him."

So I'm not allowed to agree with other people? Every person has to come up with new reasons every time they vote for a person?

Meekly defends Sikario8

Post #12 - "leaning town on Sikario."
Post #13 - keeps up pressure on the main Peers wagon, away from Sikario8.

Because he's acting the same as he did in the newbie game I was in with him, and we was town there, so I thought he was town here too.

Defends Quagmire early on, in the middle, and at the end of the wagon

Even defends people that aren't voting Quag!!!

Votes players that (ack!) suggest we should lynch Quag!!!

Does not even question that Quagmire may be lying about it

Post #20 - Not reading role PM isn't anti-town, because the Day 1 lynch is random.
Post #21 - Thinks it's really pro-town not to read your PM,

especially if Quagmire is scum.

Post #22 - Maintains, against common sense, that Quag not reading his PM is really pro-town.
Post #23 - "just because someone [...] doesn't want to lynch Quag doesn't make them scum."
Post #23 - Quag not reading his role PM is

really great!!!

Post #24 - Attacks AND FOS's Sikario8 for going as far as saying we should

actually lynch

Quag.
Post #30 - Demands more pressure be put on Peers, a nice old wagon he might be able to revive.

I believe I stated quite clearly my reasons for why a Quag lynch just based on him saying he didn't read his PM was a bad thing.

Strudel must be done away with

Post #34 - "TS doesn't seem to be here to defend herself. We can make the mod's job a lot easier if we lynch someone that scummy today."
WOW. I'm surprised that post didn't jump at people.
Post #13 - keeps up pressure on the main Peers wagon, away from Sikario8.

People already thought you were scummy, so a lynch is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm glad you came back to defend yourself. I was saying that the mod might have to replace you, but since people thought you were scummy, and it's still day 1, a lynch is not a bad thing.

Directs the vig

Post #34 - towards Peers. Why?

Because, hasdfas says:
Let's VIG Peers is still here to

defend himself

.
Let's LYNCH TS, who is

not here to defend herself

.

I said that Peers will always be here to lynch, unless he gets vigged. I also said that there may not even be a vig, so it's not really directing it. Just stating a possibility. You, on the other hand, might get replaced, so why not lynch a scummy person.

IN SUMMARY

(1) I don't know what's going on with the defense, then fleeting accusations against Sikario8. Maybe some other player can try to interpret this?
(3) That special attention hasdfas pays MoS...

I don't understand how you can see anything there.[/color[
(2) Just like Yosarian, defends Quagmire.
(4) Just like Yosarian, wants to get rid of me - does not state his own reasons as usual; relies on other people's.
(5) Dear players, please ask yourself what agenda hasdfas might have, that he'd want to lynch the person that can't defend herself, and vig the person that can. Please please please ask yourselves.

Another hour, another long long long post... just me sucking the fun out of the game as usual. I just make games stagnate and lose their focus. I apologize!

I quite appreciate your posts, just so you know, even if one of them is a post analyzing me. At least we're getting something that isn't just dumb discussion about policy lynches.

[hasdgfas]

All right, I do get what you're saying. BUT. We had no way of knowing whether you would be back from your prolonged absence. You and Peers seem to be the two most scummy players according to most people at this point. Could you explain to me why getting rid of each of them in the other way is a different strategy? It's still getting rid of both of them, so I don't understand the difference based on the mode of execution.

Also, I defended Quag because I feel that the reason for going after him, at least today, is stupid. I went over why it was a bad idea. However, if he starts acting strange now, after he claims he'd read his role, then let's go after him. If he doesn't know his role, he's basically a townie, so he was pretty much just a time-wasting bandwagon.

[hasdgfas]

ah yes, the claiming thing. I completely forgot about that.
I think I need to do a total re-read. These last e TS posts have made me wonder what the heck I've been thinking throughout this entire game.
I hope to return with a much more clarified view of things. I think my thoughts have been muddled by this entire episode and a re-read will do them good.

[hasdgfas]

All right, my re-read is complete.
The basics of it right now because I don't have much time
TS looks far more pro-town to me than before. I have no idea how I got on her being scum. I'm not a big fan of MoS's contributions. I don't think Quagmire needed to mention that he didn't read his role. There was no point in stating it when he did.

FoS: Quag.

I don't think it deserves a vote, because we don't need to get back on that issue right now.
Schis is lurking and just coming in for bandwagons.

FoS: schis

There are a bunch of people who need either major prodding or replacement.

However, I still feel that Peers is scum. He has not done anything this game that has changed my mind on his alignment.

unvote, vote:Peers

More probably coming when I have more time.

[hasdgfas]

All right, my re-read is complete.
The basics of it right now because I don't have much time
TS looks far more pro-town to me than before. I have no idea how I got on her being scum. I'm not a big fan of MoS's contributions. I don't think Quagmire needed to mention that he didn't read his role. There was no point in stating it when he did.

FoS: Quag.

I don't think it deserves a vote, because we don't need to get back on that issue right now.
Schis is lurking and just coming in for bandwagons.

FoS: schis

There are a bunch of people who need either major prodding or replacement.

However, I still feel that Peers is scum. He has not done anything this game that has changed my mind on his alignment.

unvote, vote:Peers

More probably coming when I have more time.

Your glaring, complete and utter lack of mention of Yosarian2 is noted.

The slapdash nature of your analysis leads me to believe you have re-read absolutely nothing at all. Why should you? You're caught scum, aren't you.

I. Was. Rushed. I wanted to get something out there before I had to go to work for basically the entire day. I wasn't closely looking at Yosarian2 because that would take more time than I had. Of course it's slapdash because I was rushed. I did re-read the entire game, but not in great detail. No, I'm not caught scum because I'm not scum at all. Plus, I still think Peers is scum. Have you read his posts in isolation? Please do that and then tell me that he is not clearly the scummiest one here.

However, if you're going to continue thinking that I'm scum based mostly on the fact that I was defending Quag, then please look more closely at MoS, who was doing the same thing. k? thanks.

But now, just to please you, even though I may not agre, I will look more closely at Yos2 at then get back with my thoughts.

[hasdgfas]

All right, back to the Quag situation, even though it creates an electric atmosphere.

Here are MoS's contributions to the discussion of Quag's role PM.

This gives us an advantage because he's playing as a townie.

He is not playing as a townie, he is playing as Quagmire, that is, he is completely useless.

Are you even paying attention, hasdgfas? He's pulled that "I didn't read my role PM" in another game, and he was scum. When Quagmire does that, it becomes a scumtell.

Who doesn't read their role PM with much anticipation? It doesn't make any sense, it's not believable, and, I'll say it again, he does that as scum.

This is perhaps the worst argument I have ever seen. This argument shames BM, seriously. But that's besides the point. I'll cut the ad hom out of the important stuff below:

In the only other game where Quag announced that he hadn't read his role PM, he *was* scum. But what TS conveniently forgot to mention is that in that other game, the mechanics could seriously benefit someone who could survive Day 1, since several protown people could die before Quag ever "read" his role pm. In that case, it makes sense for a scum to try saying they haven't read their role pm. However, in this game, that incentive is not there. There is no reason for scum to claim that they haven't read their role pm on Day 1. He's going to know his role tonight, so we haven't really lost much by him not knowing his role today. Since there is no benefit for Quag-scum to act this way, the benefits from his move are gained for once. In the other game where he pulled this, the dangers to the town far outweighed the benefits. However, in this game, not reading his role pm *does* allow Quagmire to objectively analyze people and call out scum. I don't agree with this strategy as I think it goes against the spirit of the game, but I there is NO reason for Quagmire to do this as scum. The only logical explanation is that he actually hadn't read his role pm, and to assert otherwise is just being opportunistic and illogical.

This was his first post defending Quag. He brings, IMO, a better argument than me, because he says that the different mechanics of the other game in which he claims he didn't read his role caused him claiming that to be better for him. In this game, there is no reason for him to claim this, so why would he lie?

Everyone voting Quagmire needs to unvote or present a case better than "he said he hadn't looked at his role pm, he could be lying!"

Do I really need to say anything about this statement?

I'd rather lynch someone who is scum than someone who is useless for Day 1. Considering that there are actually people who seem like scum right now, we're better off lynching then than Quagmire.

This looks a lot like what I was saying about looking for something besides Quagmire.

I'd rather lynch someone who is scum than someone who is useless for Day 1. Considering that there are actually people who seem like scum right now, we're better off lynching then than Quagmire.

I'm not so sure. I find it hard to see a mentality for Quag's play atm that falls in the protown category. If he doesnt want to play the game, Day 1 is the best time to get rid of him, as it also gains us info.

If we dont see anyone really standing out as scummy by the end of the day, i'm happy to just lynch him and be done with it.

BM

How can you assign an alignment to his mentality at all? The base assumption is that he hasn't read his role pm. Therefore, he doesn't know if he is protown or scum yet, so you obviously cannot make the assumption that he is scum OR town.

Everyone in the town would rather lynch scum than someone who is useless; that's the game. But in this case, nobody can agree just who seems scummy. At least, no more than a few people can agree. Quag is the first person the whole town has really gotten together on, to push to the point of hammering. It's day 1, we don't have much to go on and Quag sent up a huge signal fire to distract us.

I'd rather continue discussing things and come up with more suspects then decide Quagmire is a good compromise vote just because we can't decide on anyone else. The town has gotten together on Quagmire for no good reason. Just because they got together doesn't make it justified or good play.

Again, saying let's not lynch Quag just because he says he hasn't read his role PM.

Sikario, why attack Has and not myself? I agree with Has's stance about Quagmire. Pursuing him today is NOT useful to the town in any way. This setup has

NO

incentive for Quagmire to pull a stunt like this as scum, so we'd only be getting lucky if he died and came up scum. Given that he has a much higher probability of being town than scum, we're taking a crapshoot in the dark here just because we don't like that he didn't read his role pm. It's a bullshit justification for people trying to push a bad wagon on Day 1. And you trying to set up a 1-2 lynch on Quag and Has doesn't make it any better.

And now calling out someone for trying to set up a Quag-me chain lynch because I was defending him in this instance.

MoS says that he agrees with my stance, and he has posted so multiple times. While I may have posted on it a couple more times (or not, I didn't really count them), he felt the same way about the Quag situation and tried to keep the lynch from happening just about as much as I did. If we're talking about defense of Quag as our reasoning for votes, MoS

HAS

to be mentioned.

Now, on to continue my re-read of Yos2.

[hasdgfas]

All right, Yos2 has been re-read and now I will put in my thoughts. I'm going to use TS's wonderful little analysis here to state my thoughts on these posts, and then add a little summary at the end.

(my comments in red)

Here's another contribution that is going to suck the fun out of the game and that no one will appreciate, especially Yosarian2.

Yosarian2 a.k.a. "The Wagon Derailing Machine"

Defends BM, argues with Panzer

Post #0 -

Rails against Panzer for voting BM

Asking Panzer for clarification is not the same as railing on someone.

Post #1 -

Rails against Panzer for voting BM some more, feels strongly about votes against BM being really scummy.

He doesn't like Panzer's vote because it can be seen as trying to get an easy lynch, which would be a very bad thing. BM is not always scum so lynching him all the time is bad.

Post #2 - Rails against Panzer for voting BM some more, vehemently protects BM concerning a really big scary page 1 vote.

What do you mean by that?

Post #3 - Absurd argument with Peers over the worth of random vs. non-random page 1 votes.

argument?

Post #4 - Votes

Neo-Viper

on account of his vote against BM being even scummier than Panzer's, defends the "easy lynch" BM.

Wow, you know, trying to stop a lynch of BM because he's BM is such a scummy thing to do, after all. It's not like BM has a better chance to be town than scum

Switched off arguing with Panzer, defends hasdfas

This post is a kicker. So I am giving you all the link so that you can see for yourselves:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 765#830765
Post #6 - Suddenly likes Panzer. Extracts two posts from hasdfas. Quote #1: "As he well knows, I like reasons behind votes" Quote #2: "ok. this bandwagon seems to have more behind it than the BM one. unvote, vote:peers"
Why is this post especially interesting? That's because he voted Neo-Viper for far sillier reasons. hasdfas, however, who has sinned twice as much as Neo-Viper, is not vote-worthy. Why not?
Here's more bizarre stuff:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 300#832300

I have no idea what you're trying to get at here. his post 6 looks like him asking me for the reasoning behind my vote, which is not scummy at all.

Post #7 - This is followed by a vote on Sikario8, without explanations. Remember how Yosarian2 berated players that did not give explanations earlier in the game and even voted for them.

berated?

Post #8 - Here Yosarian2 explains why he's voting Sikario8. Pay attention:
"Sikario8's lurking, followed by a "I'm alive and reading" post, was scummy.

His hasdgfas vote also seemed a bit odd.

And when I voted for him because of that, he fos'd me for voting him? Not helping."

Yes, not the greatest of reasoning. An interesting observation, but not much by itself.

Attacks MoS but not too much

Post #20 - "Anyway, I move that we just keep piling votes on MOS until he starts making sense." Not lynch; just pile votes.

Did you read the next sentence in his post? It gives a good reason for this action

Post #23 - Interrupts MoS wagon in favor of a Quagmire wagon. Not lynch; just for him to read his role PM.

Right, so we can then stop talking about that ridiculous episode. He'll have read his role PM, a claim would have been nice but didn't happen, so we can get back to scumhunting rather than being angry about Quag not knowing his role. He wants to try to keep the town on track by getting a distraction out of the way

Starts Quagmire wagon but derails it last minute without demanding a claim as proof of reading the PM

Attacks MoS

Post #25 - Unvotes Quagmire for fear of (argh!) a Quagmire hammer.

Oh No! He doesn't want a lynch of someone before they can actually start talking? What a terrible thing to do! Yes, a claim would have been nice, but it didn't happen.

Post #26 - Back to voting MoS as promised.
Post #27 - When Yosarian2 is asked to explain why he unvoted Quagmire on his word that he read him PM, he answers: "He could very well be scum, the whole thing could have been a scum gambit or he might have just discovered that he was scum, but eh, now that we've shut down the whole "I didn't read my PM" thing,

I think MOS is scummier looking.

"

Someone being scummier in Yos's eyes than Quag is bad?

Attacks TS for voting Quag; defends Quag

Post #27 - Players voting for Quag are looking for "easy lynch."

It would have been an easy lynch, because everyone was so worked up over it that they wouldn't care.

Post #28 - Defends Quag, punctuated with smiley emoticons.

Are your numbers correct?

Post #29 - Strongly defends Quag against Sikario8 argument.
Post #30 - Yosarian's scumlist: 1. Toaster Strudel (for voting Quag) 2. Mastermind of Sin (to keep with his earlier promise)
3. Sikario8 (for voting Quag).
Post #34 - Very worried about TS: "Might as well just lynch her now, rather then make the mod replace her so we can lynch the replacement."

Defends ABR

Post #30 - "Well, you know, the case on ABR really dosn't have any substance."

Suddenly switches gear and defends MoS

Post #35 - "MOS's TS vote actually makes perfect sense, she really did look quite scummy." and: "that you're scum

hoping to get a mislynch

based on emotion" - isn't this strange given that Yosarian2 has been calling MoS "scum" all along and MoS is #2 on this scumlist?

IN SUMMARY

(1) Yosarian defends a lot of players.

In my experience

, this is something that scum tends to do to gain credibility later in the game, and also "to mix things up" with false leads.
(2) Yosarian tends to derail a lot of wagons, to slow them down, and to switch allegiance.
(3) Yosarian has come down hard on MoS early on, but now attacks players that vote for MoS (who Yosarian claims to think is scum), and calls these players scum.
(4) Yosarian has come down on Quag, but has saved him from the hammer, on the flimsiest of pretenses.

I'm giving the information.

Draw your own conclusions.

My summary:
I really don't see much of anything scummy about Yos2. His defenses have been for good reasons and seem more like town play than scum trying to get on the town's good side. From what I saw after looking at his posts in isolation, he seems to be making good points for the most part. I'm not sure whether I agree with him on everything or not, but he has done what he has said he would do, and I haven't seen anything really scummy from him yet. I'm not sure why you feel so vehemently about him being scum. Perhaps you could point out your two biggest problems with him so I can see what you see, because right now, I'm not seeing it at all.

Note that this is only up until TS's post that I quoted here. I'm going to look at the discussion amongst TS and Yos after this.

[hasdgfas]

wonderful. Some new eyes to see what we might have missed. Don't rush yourself though, we want good insight, not sloppy insight.

[hasdgfas]

hasdfgas: Post 43 he states he likes reasons, and then post 72 votes for peers without stating reasons. I don't like his defense of Quag not reading his role pm in post 493, though not necessarily scummy, he fails to realize that we get absolutely no information from Quag in this case.

The post stating I liked reasons was a reference to another game, and while I still kinda like reasons, I realized in between those two posts that voting without stating your reasons isn't always a bad thing. Yes, we get no information from Quag, I understand that. Would lynching him for not reading his role PM get us that information?

He states more pressure is needed on peers (post 665), but doesn't add it himself

How can I put more pressure on Peers when I'm already voting for him?

[hasdgfas]

Him not reading his role PM is not necessarily an anti-town action. He doesn't have to be hindered by his role and might play the game more normally. However, announcing it, especially in the way he did, is much more of an anti-town action, as there was no need to do so. I didn't pay that much attention to it when he first announced it, but after TS pointed it out, I looked back and realized that he didn't need to say anything.

And I understand the mistake with regards to my vote. I just wanted to make sure that you saw that I couldn't do more than I already was.

[hasdgfas]

A little look at some of MoS's posts.

Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel

Metagame policy to lynch TS in every game until I see some useful posts instead of random ranting that doesn't even contain logic.

So you're policy lynching her?

TS is a crackpot idiot who gets way too carried away divulging herself in ridiculous theories that are so strung out they fall apart like a house of cards if a breeze comes through. I'm more than willing to policy lynch a person like that in any game, unless I have a better suspect. And since it's only page 11 on Day 1 of a large game, that's a damn good place for my vote.

So she plays a bit differently than others. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It can be fun sometimes. Just because you don't like someone's playstyle doesn't mean they shouldn't be on the site.

MoS, why aren't you policy lynching Quagy ? He is a way better policy.

I'm not policy lynching

anyone

.

You said you were earlier

For fuck's sake, how many times do I have to say that I'm not policy voting for you to get it through your head.

It will never be enough after the post you made where you said you were policy lynching TS.

Unvote, Vote: Kscope

OMGUS much?


Take what you will from these posts. Personally, I'm not a big fan of them. You're policy lynching TS, but you're not? You're voting kscope why? It looks like OMGUS to me. That deserves, at the very least, a

FoS

A closer look at Peers hopefully coming soon.

[hasdgfas]

Keep that up, and I'm going to start thinking you're town, hasdgfas.

can't you just think that anyway?

In addition, Quag: what do you have against claiming? Does it hurt you in any way?

[hasdgfas]

Rolefishing? How do you get rolefishing from that?

[hasdgfas]

ah, well that was not the way my question was intended. It was intended as "does the act of claiming disgust you so much that you just refuse to claim" not a "will you get NK'd if you claim" but now that you mention it I can see why that could possibly be seen as rolefishing.

[hasdgfas]

I don't like his defense of Quag not reading his role pm in post 493, though not necessarily scummy, he fails to realize that we get absolutely no information from Quag in this case.

If he lied about reading his pm, and in fact continued to play without reading but is keeping it a secret he is acting pure town.

That was my entire defense of Quag. You find it suspicious that I defend Quag, and yet here you defend him for the same reason?

[hasdgfas]

But for those who are arguing that Quagmire not reading his role PM is good, because we gained a townie for the day, I'd like them to list the pro-town, helpful things that Quagmire has done. Because I'm not seeing any, myself.

When I was defending his actions, I was stating that if we didn't jump all over him for not reading his PM or if he didn't announce it, we would, in theory, have a townie. Maybe he didn't do anything pro-town. In that case, we lynch him. However, if, say, mith were to be in a game and hadn't read his role PM during day 1, he would play day 1 as a townie. The action of not reading your role PM is not inherently anti-town, but Quagmire in this case looks more and more anti-town. Not based on that one action, but on the game as a whole.


@MoS: When you state that you are making a policy vote, that is what people remember. Voting for someone else for a real case, then getting back on to TS for a "real case" does not stick in people's minds, because we don't know whether that "real vote" is based on something that's actually there or if you're trying to just find something on that person so that they can be lynched. Even if it's a real case, there will still be that nagging voice in the back of our minds saying "Is this actually scummy, or is this still because of the policy vote?"
That's why there shouldn't be policy votes. It's similar to the boy who cried wolf. People won't believe you later, even if you really do have a real case on that person.

[hasdgfas]

HI IH

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: and welcome
I just like the palindome potential of your sn too much to give up a possibility to do that.

[hasdgfas]

How many votes on me is that?

[hasdgfas]

Someone (I think it was TS) wanted me to post why my vote is still on Peers. Besides the fact that I haven't gotten much of anything pro-town out of most of his posts.
That said, here it is.

Let's not start the whole "getting defensive" bull again. It's the first freakin' page.

Important stuff can happen on the first page. Don't just throw everything from page 1 out, because sometimes it's really useful.

No problem. Just didn't want self-vote-bandwagoners to start piling on me or something.

anyway, now that it's fixed...

Unvote

vote: BM:

And if I need a reason, it's... um... due to frequent and recurring votehopping. Or something else that sounds similarly random yet not-random. Or whatever.

So you're just jumping on the BM bandwagon? Why? Because BM is considered an easy lynch? You clearly do not have a reason behind it, yet you attempt to look like you do. Why?

How many times do you get an actual, bona-fide legit serious reason to vote for someone on page 1 of a day-start game?

It's not all that uncommon. We have to find something, and surprisingly often there is something suspicious to actually comment on.

Yeah, yeah, pile votes on the guy who tends to go hyper-defensive and get himself lynched. I've learned from my past games... I'm not over-reacting or getting hyper-defensive from now on. Maybe if the bandwagon against me had, y'know, players I knew and respected, I'd take it more seriously.

So you're meta-ing yourself in order to defend yourself? Why don't you actually defend your actions instead of your tendencies?

Why are we letting Peers, who pretty much told us all to fuck off, off the hook?

Technically, I was only saying that to BM and ABR. I don't know the rest of you well enough to tell you to fuck off.

Besides... random phase. You vote for people randomly, you let them off the hook randomly, until someone things they see a pattern in the randomness and then everyone decides if that person is right or if that person is scum.

I think we already mentioned this, but the "random phase" isn't all that random. There are still reasons behind the so-called "random" votes, and if we look closely at the supposed randomness, we can find something from it.

Hey. Yeah. I need to be in this game more.

Yeah, yeah, pile votes on the guy who tends to go hyper-defensive and get himself lynched.

Examples, please.

Can't. Even though I'm dead, the game's still in progress. But apparently saying "I'm going to be calm and not flip out" makes people think you have a reason for being calm and not flipping out. *shrug*

Don't tell us that you're going to be calm, just DO IT. If you say so, it looks like you have something that you could flip out over, but don't.

I'm glad we don't have a deadline right now. I'd have to vote for Sikario8 out of self-defense, and that's a horrible reason to vote for someone (well, not -horrible-, but there's better).

No, you wouldn't have to self-defense vote. You should vote for who you think is scummiest, not just to save yourself. If you're a townie, and you think that the other BW is a townie, leave your vote on someone who you think is scummy. Then if you're lynched and turn up town, people will look more closely at your thoughts and maybe ponder them more.

If you're not willing to take Sikario down, then you are the one that's going to get lynched.

Interestingly enough, several of the people who are voting for me are defending Sikario. Your argument puts me in a position where, to appear less scummy to you, I must appear more scummy to them.

I continue to believe that Sikario is town, and will continue to believe so until someone gives me some actual evidence beyond "Well, he stayed in this game and flaked out of others, so he must have a reason to stay." (No offense, BM, I'm just not ready to trust your meta-game reasonings quite yet.)

At this point, however, ABR... you're wrong. But you might be right soon, it depends on how people vote and on how deadlines go. It's very possible that if I don't vote Sikario, I'll get lynched. But I will not be bullied into casting my vote before I absolutely have to, because I believe the man is town.

Again, if you believe him to be town, then just don't vote for him. At all. You claim to be town, so you shouldn't necessarily care about surviving. You should care about lynching scum. Don't lynch someone you believe is a townie to save your own skin.


I think the "self-defense vote" on someone he thinks is town to save himself is probably the worst of his actions, but most of these aren't very good.

[hasdgfas]

Who besides Peers?
MoS is the only one that I feel quite happy about saying is scum.

Besides him, the ones that I'm leaning scum on are Panzer, schis, and kscope. I thought Quag was town and the reasons for voting him were idiotic, but TS pointed out that Quag revealing that he hadn't read his role PM when he did was completely unnecessary, and I've been looking more closely at him. I'm not nearly as confident in him being town as I was before. I think he's possible, but slightly more unlikely than some of the others.

[hasdgfas]

I think SirTornado ought to be replaced. He's only made one vote the whole game.

I agree with

Yosarian2

TS.

[hasdgfas]

he's obviously in the scum category

[hasdgfas]

Did you just claim with no reason?

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: for no reason

[hasdgfas]

you better be kidding.
You misspelled quagmire.

[hasdgfas]

Yes, Peers. Answer the question please.

[hasdgfas]

Peers, you're still evading the question. Why do

YOU

think he's scum? Not why does everyone else think he's scum, why do YOU think he's scum?

[hasdgfas]

I'm still voting for Peers because I feel more comfortable with a Peers lynch than a Quagmire lynch. Of course I'm going to question him, even now, because he's still my top suspect. However, if it comes to the deadline, I will vote for Quag because after he supposedly read his role PM I haven't seen good play from him at all.

[hasdgfas]

I'm not ignoring Quagmire. I feel that I have made my thoughts well known on him. But, if you want it again:
The role PM discussion was a time-waster even though he had no need to announce that at that time. Since he claims that he read his role PM, I haven't seen much of anything useful from him.

[hasdgfas]

A Peers lynch will be bad for the town.

Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum. No proof, just hunch. Unfortunately, my death will be the proof...

This

still

isn't an answer to my question.

[hasdgfas]

A Peers lynch will be bad for the town.

Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum. No proof, just hunch. Unfortunately, my death will be the proof...

Going by gut only, and I hope I am being no fool, his reactions sounds awfully townie to me. I hate when that happens.

but he still hasn't answered the question that has been posed to him by multiple different people.

Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum.

I will add that if he were scum, Peers would unlikely selectively cast aspersions on only the already-scummy players. It doesn't sound like he's trying to jerk us around with an agenda that will cause it to scratch our heads in puzzlement for days to come.

Right, but if we lynched him and he were scum, why would we listen if he told us that people were scum who we didn't suspect before.

[hasdgfas]

A Peers lynch will be bad for the town. Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum. No proof, just hunch. Unfortunately, my death will be the proof...

Going by gut only, and I hope I am being no fool, his reactions sounds awfully townie to me. I hate when that happens.

but he still hasn't answered the question that has been posed to him by multiple different people.

Your question is: "Why do you find Quagmire scummy?" right?

Funny you should be so upset about Peers not answering question, when you seem to find little wrong with the same whem Quagmire does it.

Several times, earlier in the game, Quagmire CATEGORICALLY REFUSED to answer questions from ANY player.

But now, you, hasdagas, and MoS, have decided that Peers not answering a question about how scummy Quagmire is (do you get the irony here?) is worthy of adding, or keeping your vote/pressure on him.

Just pointing it out.

I think not lynching Quagmire would be a VERY LARGE STRATEGIC MISTAKE for this town.

I didn't say that I found little wrong with him not answering the questions asked to him, I just wasn't as forceful in wanting him to answer questions. I still wanted him to answer questions, but it seemed like enough other people were asking him questions or telling him to answer the questions, unless I'm just remembering incorrectly. Did you find anyplace in my posts where I said that I didn't mind him not answering the questions?

[hasdgfas]

On another note, while I'm glad to see us moving in ANY direction without TS derailing any non-Quagmire wagon, I'm not entirely sure why people are suddenly attacking Peers. Could someone explain why they think peers is scum? Not that I've got anything against that wagon per se, but I would like to hear a case before he's deadline lynched tommorow here.

Have you been reading the thread? Post 1094, I think, is my main case against him. If that's not enough, then read his posts in isolation and see what you find.

[hasdgfas]

TS: I didn't say that refusing to answer questions wasn't scummy. If you think that I am just going to go against my instincts, you are sorely mistaken. Just because I don't think exactly the same as you and don't spend the vast majority of my time talking about how Quag is scum doesn't mean that I'm ignoring Quag's actions. I would just prefer a Peers lynch to a Quag lynch right now.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

Vote KScope

Wow! Your second post.

An unexplained vote.

Serial Killer much?

Why are we mentioning a Serial Killer before we've had a night?

unvote, vote kscope

For just general lurkiness and bad vibes.

[hasdgfas]

So, MoS and Yos2 were town. How very interesting.
ABR, was that a real claim or another joke claim? If it's a real claim are you the last mason or are there others?

[hasdgfas]

Well, he hadn't posted in forever and I lost count of the votes, I'm sorry.

[hasdgfas]

I would appreciate a little more reasoning when you're voting me. If it's because I hammered kscope, yes that was completely idiotic, but at least say why.

[hasdgfas]

I believe peers' claim more today than i did yesterday.

[hasdgfas]

The night deaths. Either Peers is NK immune or a town vig tried to kill him or, what I find most likely, scum tried to kill him.

However, I would like to know who Peers protected last night.

[hasdgfas]

I know one of two things. Either he's NK immune or

someone

tried to kill him.

[hasdgfas]

Sir T:
You made all of

TWO

posts throughout the entire 50+ page day 1. Why would you lurk

that much

? That was completely ridiculous.

[hasdgfas]

Sir T: Then read the previous couple of pages and say something about them. Mega-lurking like you did should not be acceptable.

[hasdgfas]

Peers: If you're not scum, why

wouldn't

the scum believe your claim?

[hasdgfas]

Well then. What an....interesting revelation.
TS: If I and Panzer had done the same with less than 7 hours to go before deadline on someone who hadn't posted in the same amount of time as Kscope and had turned out to be mafia/werewolf when we killed them, would you be making such a big deal over the quick voting? I honestly had lost count of the votes. I thought he was at 7-8 rather than 9. Have you ever lost count of the votes on someone?

[hasdgfas]

Right, it doesn't matter because he already had more votes than Quagmire and we have no way of knowing whether or not enough people would have unvoted kscope in time for us to lynch Quag or anyone else.
Also, just because I disagree with you about Quagmire's actions doesn't mean I'm "trying to save him." I would have been perfectly ok with a quag lynch if that was the final decision, but I was happier with a kscope lynch. Yes, I should have counted the votes, but I didn't.
My question isn't a red herring, it's a rhetorical question. I would like to know the answer to it.

[hasdgfas]

TS: Have I ever said that I think Quagmire is town? Or are you just taking that from the fact that I don't see the same things you do?

[hasdgfas]

I am 90% certain that it was a mod mistake because it said also killed

night 1

rather than killed during day 2.

[hasdgfas]

my problem is that if it wasn't made dramatic at the time, I wonder how much of a problem people would have had with my thoughts that his action of not reading his PM wasn't inherently anti-town.

[hasdgfas]

agreed, but until the drama of that issue, nobody said anything about him.

[hasdgfas]

oh shit I forgot about this game.

Can you contribute something rather than mindless bandwagoning and saying that you forgot about this game?

[hasdgfas]

oh shit I forgot about this game.

Can you contribute something rather than mindless bandwagoning and saying that you forgot about this game?

Correction. He's not even contributing mindless bandwagoning.

he did during parts of day 1.

[hasdgfas]

Or, possibly, we could look for something besides your false dilemma and lynch someone like zu_faul or jordan, both of which have also been scummy. This isn't a one or the other situation, TS, no matter whether you want it to be or not. There are lots of people still alive, and, even if I were scum, you still would want to look for the others.

[hasdgfas]

[...] even if I were scum, you still would want to look for

the others

.

Hey anyone caught that?

We should still want to look for the OTHER scum.

Not just hasdagasscum. You know. He's not the only scum. There are other scum, and we should look for these others, too.

what are you trying to say here?

Or, possibly, we could look for something besides your false dilemma and lynch someone like zu_faul or jordan, both of which have also been scummy.

Hey hasdfgas - what do you think is scummy about jordan? And if there are people you find scummy, why aren't you voting anyone?

I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is. He just seems a bit iffy to me. It's more zu's opportunism and jumping on easy bandwagons that makes me more suspicious of him. Why am I not voting for anyone? I haven't had enough confidence in my play after how miserably I played during day 1 that I can actually have decent insight into anyone right now.

[hasdgfas]

I know what you mean, grammatically speaking, and I agree with you.

But why would he want us to look for "others," when we have a live one, scuh as himself *if* he were scum? We can always look for "others" later.

And it's very weird for hasdagas, who is under less vote pressure than I am at the moment, to steer us in the direction of "other scum." Even if he started his sentence with "IF I were scum."

It's a very odd suggestion.

TS: at the moment, I don't think you're scum. BUT. You were saying that it would be you or me today, and I don't agree with that assessment. You didn't even mention

anything

about anyone else in your post. You were like "we can either get more people to vote for me, or for hasdgfas." I was trying to point out how that was bad for the town, no matter my alignment

[hasdgfas]

You lack a sense of humor if you think I'm seriously suggesting that only you or I should be lynched today.

I did accomplish the goal of getting the game moving, didn't I? No one has said anything worthy of notice for days. You weren't tempted to take advantage of the break, stick your neck out, and look for that "other scum?"

Did I say you were seriously suggesting it? No. But you did suggest it, and I responded to it.

Yes, I was tempted to look for the scum, and I attempted to do so. But it was a LONG day 1, and I didn't have as much time to look as I would've liked. I have looked closer at zu_faul lately though, and have found nothing useful from him at all. It's as though he's a parrot, chirping out what others have said and jumping on the easy bandwagons.

vote: zu_faul

[hasdgfas]

False. While I haven't contributed as much or as well as I would have liked to, but for the whole day 1, I kept going back to Peers, even though other targets became more popular at times.

[hasdgfas]

vollkan: me explaining my comments on Peers would involve a role claim. Do you want me to do that now?

[hasdgfas]

zu: That insult was completely unnecessary. Even though I'm a cow, I can read just fine.
Also, you starting the kscope wagon appeared to be more of a "let's lynch kscope for lurking instead of me" which doesn't help your case at all

[hasdgfas]

What kind of role do you think would target a claimed doctor?
(Quag was my second choice, btw. It was a really tough decision)

[hasdgfas]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

[hasdgfas]

Since it's obvious that nothing else will help, I'm going to claim. TS doesn't think it'll help, but anything less that I do will not end TS's bloodlust towards me, and even this might not help at all, with the way TS has acted towards all her suspicions so far.

Here's my breadcrumb:

All right, back to the Quag situation, even though it creates an

electric

atmosphere.

I am the CPR doc. For those who don't know what it is, let me explain. After all other night actions are resolved, I get to go to my target. If they are alive, I kill them, if they're dead, I bring them back to life. Last night, it took me a long while to decide whether to target Peers or Quag, because I would have been targeting each for a different reason. I had to weigh the likelihood of Peers being the target of a NK, and therefore me wanting to save him, the doctor, against almost definitely NK'ing Quag, who had claimed vanilla townie and was the subject of much discussion during Day 1. I finally decided upon targeting Peers, because I figured that if Peers was lying, he would be a dead scum, and if he was telling the truth, he'd be a likely NK.

When Day 2 began and Peers was alive, I was happy that I had stopped a NK, and thus attempted to explain why without actually claiming. That failed miserably. I figured that either scum or a vig had tried to NK him, or he was NK-immune. There would be no other reason for him being alive. Then Shanba posted, showing that Peers was dead, and I knew that I was in trouble for what I had said about Peers so far in Day 2 and my stupid, stupid, completely idiotic play Day 1.

So, I'm not an information role, this is probably the

only

town role where I would have a difficult time choosing between Quag and Peers. If I was cop, no question I target Quag. If it's a tracker, I target Quag.

If you still want to lynch me after this, I wouldn't be surprised, because I've played terribly this entire game. But think on it from this perspective, and it does make sense.

[hasdgfas]

I agree with you Setael, but this was a new role and I wasn't really sure how to play it with the results I have when erg0 attacked him immediately. I probably should have waited, but once I said that I believed Peers more today I couldn't think of a way to get out of it easily.

[hasdgfas]

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

Not true at all, Spambot. CPR doc can be a very useful role. When used correctly, it's either a protect or a vig kill. Since the claimed doc is now dead, I will probably be acting as though I'm a vig, for all intents and purposes. I hope that you don't think that a vig should never kill for fear of hitting townies?

[hasdgfas]

No, it's more of a "if nobody attacked him before me, and I didn't kill him, then he's NK immune"

[hasdgfas]

Oh yeah. hasdgfas, for future reference... don't try to use CPR doc as a doc. Just don't. It's a vig role with a very minor bonus.

I figured that using it as a doc on a claimed doc was pretty safe. I would normally use it as a vig, but using it in this case is completely understandable, don't you think?

[hasdgfas]

Xyl: DGB

is

TS. She used the wrong account to post as DGB

[hasdgfas]

Xyl: Pronounce it and/or spell it "Cow" as many people call me that. If you really want to pronounce it, it's more the first one though.


Also, I'm not sure why BM has suddenly gone so silent.

[hasdgfas]

I'd be happy with a lynch of most of those, but I need to look closer at Bookitty to see why you find her scummy.

[hasdgfas]

The question here, vollkan, is why you haven't changed your percentages on myself and Xyl with our claims.

[hasdgfas]

there are a lot of anime avas in here.

vote: schis

Do

something

[hasdgfas]

Schis hasn't done a single useful thing all game, which, while annoying, gives us no indication towards his alignment, just that he doesn't seem to care about this game at all.

Honestly, I think BM could be a better lynch, but I need to re-read a little bit to acertain my reasons for that. My vote stays on schis because I want him to actually be useful.

[hasdgfas]

OK OK Im sorry. Im not scum. DONT KILL ME PLEASE.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

dont kill me.

ill do whatever it takes.

How about you actually scumhunt.

[hasdgfas]

I am becoming really irritated with Battle Mage. I see him in other games, making good comments, participating, etc.

Here, he's nothing but purposely lurking scum.

This is an excellent point.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

I no longer feel good about a BM vote.

vote: erg0

Looks like scum hiding off-wagon, but hey. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was thinking the same thing.

[hasdgfas]

I don't like that last vote. I think it's far too easy for scum to hide behind TS.

unvote, vote: zu_faul

True, but you're off-wagon again.
Do you have a problem with lynching schis?

[hasdgfas]

Maybe the main wagon should BE zu_faul. Who says it has to STAY schis? Are we under some kind of imminent deadline I'm not aware of? Because you sure are acting like it.

schis' last few posts sound a lot like bored, apathetic town. While this is my least favorite kind of townie, it's still likely a townie. i don't see scum drawing this kind of negative attention to themselves, and when townies do it, it makes it easy for scum to get them lynched. Scum is unlikely to be the first one to jump on it (TS took that upon herself) but scum IS likely to hide behind a townie doing it (that'd be zu_faul). So that's where my vote is going.

Until there is an imminent deadline, I will be voting the player I find scummiest rather than just being self conscious about making sure I'm "on wagon" like so many of you seem to think I should.

An excellent explanation. I happen to agree with you here, honestly. I wanted your reaction to my comment more than anything else at this time.

[hasdgfas]

On IRC, people who do nothing but make annoying 1-liners are scum 90% of the time.

This is totally different than IRC, just to let you know.

[hasdgfas]

I'd be perfectly fine with a Zu lynch, but I agree with vollkan's response to question 2, because that's how I feel as well.

[hasdgfas]

Hi, remember me? The CPR doc? I targeted someone last night, and because he/she isn't dead, that means someone else targeted him/her for death as well. Based on who I targeted, I'm guessing it was a vig who targeted this person, but I'm not sure. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm not saying who I targeted yet, but since I've already claimed, this info might be useful.

[hasdgfas]

Hi, remember me? The CPR doc? I targeted someone last night, and because he/she isn't dead, that means someone else targeted him/her for death as well. Based on who I targeted, I'm guessing it was a vig who targeted this person, but I'm not sure. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm not saying who I targeted yet, but since I've already claimed, this info might be useful.

if the vig targetted the same person as you, what do you suppose happened to the mafia kill?

BM

I don't know, maybe the mafia kill got RB'd. Maybe I got RB'd. I don't really know what happened to it except that my kill didn't go through.

[hasdgfas]

The mafia kill targeted hasdgfas, but got stopped by a faith healer and/or nurse.

what? You seem extremely sure of this. Didn't you replace ABR, the claimed mason?

[hasdgfas]

I'm guessing hasdgfas targeted Setael...

Nope, even though that would be consistent.

[hasdgfas]

Ah. You meant a reason for voting me.

Now that's stupid. You vote me for nothing and hope a bandwagon forms on me, after some guys yesterday already said they were suspicious of me.

Vote: Battle Mage

First off, he didn't vote for you. He voted for TS. Secondly, that was a ridiculous OMGUS vote, especially when he didn't vote for you.

Vote: zu_faul

[hasdgfas]

what??

Vote: Zu Faul

Yes there is a reason for this. lol

BM

Thank you for reading the game hasdgfas

Thank you for not realizing that he switched his vote to TS in the post immediately before yours.

[hasdgfas]

Didn't cow want to tell us who he targeted? Just sayin, maybe that could help clearing someone.

Oh, right. I totally forgot about that. I'm sure someone will take something from this information.

I targeted zu last night because he's seemed a bit iffy to me so far this game.

[hasdgfas]

So since he's alive, that means somebody tried to kill him, or he's NK immune. Right? I did read some things in this game...

right.

Since when is Zu_Faul a likely scum target?

He's not....
Remember how last time I tried to save someone I killed the doc? I figured that I should try to vig someone I thought was scum this time, so Zu it was. I think someone tried to vig him, but all I know is what ek said.

[hasdgfas]

Since when is Zu_Faul a likely scum target?

He's not....

But still you are voting for me. Something doesn't seem right.

I'm voting for you because I don't think that scum would target you, therefore someone did, and I suspect a vig. Plus, you've been likely scum for a while now.

[hasdgfas]

I'm voting for you because I don't think that scum would target you, therefore someone did, and I suspect a vig. Plus, you've been likely scum for a while now.

Um. A vig targeting zu_Faul wouldn't make it any more likely that he's scum, so that's a silly reason to vote him.

Now, if you suspected a

godfather

, that would be a good reason.

that's not the only reason, Xyl, and nowhere did I say that it was.

[hasdgfas]

"I'm voting for you because I don't think scum would target you" implies that he doesn't think you're scum.

Please tell me you're not at all serious about this. Seriously,

THINK

about this for a minute. How does that imply that I don't think he's scum? Who would I think scum wouldn't target?

[hasdgfas]

Bold added.

I'm voting for you because I don't think that scum would target you, therefore someone did, and I suspect a vig.

Plus, you've been likely scum for a while now.

Um. A vig targeting zu_Faul wouldn't make it any more likely that he's scum, so that's a silly reason to vote him.

Now, if you suspected a

godfather

, that would be a good reason.

that's not the only reason, Xyl, and nowhere did I say that it was.

You didn't say it was the only reason. You did say it was

a

reason. I'm saying it isn't a valid reason.

Ye gods! I agree with where Xyl is coming from

@Hasdfsdf: I don't care whether it is one of many reasons or the sole reason; I would like to know why it is a reason.

All right, vollkan, if you were a vig, you would be killing those you thought were scum, correct? While a vig doesn't always kill scum correctly, I trust their judgement to choose someone that they find suspicious, and even though they're not always right, their target has more of a chance of being scum that someone who nobody finds suspicious.

"I'm voting for you because I don't think scum would target you" implies that he doesn't think you're scum.

Please tell me you're not at all serious about this. Seriously,

THINK

about this for a minute. How does that imply that I don't think he's scum? Who would I think scum wouldn't target?

You said "scum wouldn't target you."

You didn't say "scum wouldn't target you because you are one of them."

You said "scum wouldn't target you" like "scum" is a seperate entity from zu_faul.

I think my point is valid.

No, e_k. I said it that way for a reason. I wanted to see who could see it the same way I meant it. Maybe I didn't put it perfectly, but it's totally possible to see it the same way I meant it.

[hasdgfas]

Well, could you please present it again?

You can just select my posts and read them.

e_k, how about you humor those of us who don't see your full case in your previous posts, and post at least the basics of the case on TS before deadline.

Also, can someone link to a case on e_k? If I have both viewpoints, it'll make figuring out which of the two is scum much easier.

[hasdgfas]

Either hasdgfas is the best CPR Doc

ever

or there is something else going on.

No bets on which one.

also, best is a relative term, because depending on whether I was trying to kill the person I targeted or save them, I might be the worst.

I need to do a little bit of rereading before I say too much today.

[hasdgfas]

this is muy muy interesante , I MA leaning towards a Zu lynch as well, Im inclined to believe hasdhdgasadcow.

How interesting. So you think that just because he didn't die when I targeted him a couple nights ago, that makes him scum. I don't see any other reasons from you here.

I, personally, am going to reread zu after I get back from work today because I need to strengthen my case on him.

[hasdgfas]

CPR doc kills his target, unless the target was also target of another kill, in which case all kills are prevented. Don't know what happens if there are two kills + cpr on one target.

Here's the way I understand it:

CPR Doc (me) is processed after all other actions on the person I target.
If they are alive when my action is processed, I kill them.
If they are dead when my action is processed, I revive them.

[hasdgfas]

Hi.

In other news I believe cow's claim. Makes sense.

Not that I find hasdafgas' claim too believable with a Doc and a Jailkeeper down.

I'd like an explanation for why you switched your thoughts about me after I claimed to have targeted you, and was slightly suspicious of you.

[hasdgfas]

Hi.

In other news I believe cow's claim. Makes sense.

Not that I find hasdafgas' claim too believable with a Doc and a Jailkeeper down.

I'd like an explanation for why you switched your thoughts about me after I claimed to have targeted you, and was slightly suspicious of you.

The first one was Day 1, when there were no night actions to be concerned of, right?
Doc and Jailkeeper went down afterwards.

The first one was day 2, after we lynched the jailkeeper and I accidentally killed the doc.

[hasdgfas]

I don't really get why you would want to more or less randomly target someone at night.
Is there any reason hasdgfas shouldn't tell us last night's target?

Randomly target someone? Where did I say or imply that?

I'm also fine telling my target if the town wants me to.

[hasdgfas]

Night 1 I targeted Peers, being almost certain they'd kill the claimed doc.
Night 2 I targeted zu.

[hasdgfas]

Xyl, I can understand what you're saying, but I have a question for you.

Do you think the wolves would target zu two nights in a row?

[hasdgfas]

What are you saying?

I'm saying that Hasdgfas's claim concerning Zu Faul is markedly inconsistent with any logical interpretation of scum behaviour. In fact, it'd be interesting to hear Hasdgfas's opinion on his results.

BM

I definitely found the results strange. I had found zu a bit suspicious before the first time I targeted him, so I was trying to vig him, after the first time I tried to protect someone. That was the Set kill night, IIRC. I figured, ok, maybe he was vigged, or maybe he's NK-immune. I wasn't thinking he could be targeted by scum at that point, because I didn't find it likely after the suspicion on him all game.

After I targeted him again and he didn't die, I found it even stranger. I found NK-immune most likely, because again, he didn't seem like a likely scum kill, especially 2 nights in a row.

[hasdgfas]

Well, the fact that you're not dead, means you're scum or unkillable.

or else nobody else knows who you are to know the tradition of killing you the first chance they get.

Or

maybe

forum mafia is different enough from IRC mafia that it doesn't matter.

[hasdgfas]

This thread needs CPR...or euthanasia.

Oooh, me. Pick me. I got this covered.

[hasdgfas]

I'd like it to continue as well. I can try to actively post, but large games are difficult. As long as we get enough interest though, I'll do my best to make sure it stays afloat.

[hasdgfas]

Hi everyone. How are you all doing? Same as before? Good.

[hasdgfas]

if at all possible, I'd like to continue the game. It doesn't look likely though.

vote: Dizzy

Do you even remember this game at all?

[hasdgfas]

vote: continue

[hasdgfas]

Quote your PMs and send them to Stoofer.

done

[hasdgfas]

I was really CPR doc. I really want to know what zu was

[hasdgfas]

SCUM ROLEBLCOKER FTW!

oh bah

well played

[hasdgfas]

Yeah, sorry guys. I really liked this setup, but while the setup elements worked how I wanted, other parts of the game weren't so good. do you all want me to post the setup, or are you just glad it's all over now?

I'd like to see the setup.