Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

shannon
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Post Post #425  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:48 pm

I also wouldn't mind hearing from the people who are voting elsewhere, because from my end at least, 0x40 is one of a few suspects and my vote on him is partly because we're nearing deadline and need to consolidate, as Implosion says. Implosion, AF, Rocnix, do any of you have a strong town read on 0x40, or are you feeling OK about this?

(Thought: Did ScumImplosion talk about consolidation so that I would vote 0x40?)

innocentvillager
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Post Post #426  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:12 pm

Drone replaces Rocnix. Welcome him!

shannon
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Post Post #427  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:03 am

Hi Drone! Nice to meet you

implosion
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Post Post #428  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:02 am

In post 421, 0x40 wrote:I think that reason alone was big enough to justify that.

To some extent I have trouble believing that you put this much weight into this point alone, about him mentioning the possibility of a policy lynch, given that I think an honest reading of what he said made it clear that he had no actual interest in policy lynching you, and even if he did, I sincerely doubt that an expression of interest in policy lynching is highly correlated enough with being scum to justify such a large swing in your read of him.

It just doesn't seem natural that this single point would be enough to completely overhaul your read. That's a very one-dimensional view of the game of mafia for someone who says that they have a lot of experience and who isn't hesitating to call other players bad at the game.

I don't really mind the 0x lynch at this point. Again if I had more time I'd look more into everything but eh. Motivation to re-look over everything is hard to muster on d1. Hopefully, Drone will have time to weigh in today at least a little before we wind up lynching.

Jibs
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Post Post #429  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:17 am

Hello all.

I'm still suspicious of imp--the way his vote stays on pp on page 17 does nothing to pull me out of tunnel mode. I will probably look at his meta N1.

I'm slightly suspicious of Chrimi because it felt like she wanted me to hammer tne, and scum!Chrimi definitely wants tne dead. I'm also a little suspicious that she called intent on 0x without waiting for AF to get back.

But I'm happy with my vote where it is. 0x hasn't really shown any curiosity about the game. Maybe town stops being curious when they are sure that they have found the best candidates for scum, but then they usually switch over to trying to convince other people that those are the best targets. 0x just came into the game, found his scumreads, got people to call him town, and basically fucked off. IIRC, all he's done since af's townread on him is arguing with me about his points on me--without adding any new points--and calling Chrimi VI for not announcing L-1.

Drone: welcome to the game. Your main priorities are reads on AstralFlare, 0x40, and Chrimi, but if you have the time, I would appreciate some thoughts on the people who have been suspicious of your slot (myself and pp, I believe). If you don't have the time, maybe you can do that at the start of D2.

If we hammer scum, I think imp and tne should leave tombstones. If we hammer town then we are screwed anyways, but tne should still leave a tombstone.

0x40
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Post Post #430  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:14 pm

In post 424, Chrimi wrote:Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.

Chrimi
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Post Post #431  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:29 pm

In post 430, 0x40 wrote:
In post 424, Chrimi wrote:Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.

Regardless of who Rocnix's replacement is or what they do, I'm still holding intent to hammer.

Either way, you must claim your role. The sooner you do, the more time we have to respond to it before deadline.

Claim.

PenguinPower
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Post Post #432  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:01 pm

In post 430, 0x40 wrote:Not claiming.


Why not? You realize that's the standard practice at this stage?

0x40
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Post Post #433  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:58 pm

In post 432, PenguinPower wrote:Why not? You realize that's the standard practice at this stage?

Standard practice just before being hammered. I can't really be hammered until Drone has given his reads.
For me to claim right now would be anti-town, because it increases the odds of scum nightkilling a pr by process of elimination, or pretty much guarantees it if I'm a pr and claim.
The most important thing by far right now is Drone's reads, and we still have 52 hours left on the day, so it's not like we're in a hurry to hammer.

0x40
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Post Post #434  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:59 pm

Chrimi, PenguinPower, could you two clarify as to why you think it's a good idea to claim right now? Preferably in that order.

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Post Post #435  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:05 pm

In post 434, 0x40 wrote:Chrimi, PenguinPower, could you two clarify as to why you think it's a good idea to claim right now? Preferably in that order.


I've already stated why...

In post 80, implosion wrote:At MS, the typical procedure is to put someone at L-1 (that is, one vote away from lynch) and then instead of hammering (voting the final vote), someone declares "intent to hammer" and asks for a claim.

0x40
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Post Post #436  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:32 pm

In post 435, PenguinPower wrote:I've already stated why...

Because you've seen other people do it? Can you explain yourself why it would be pro-town for me to claim right now, or anti-town for me to hold off on it now, and claim later if it's still relevant by then?

Drone
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Post Post #437  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:32 pm

Hello guys; Been reading 18 pages and tried not to post until I confirmed I can.

0x40; Since the moment you joined the discussions you were on the extreme side of everything. A single word you dislike would, in your opinion, turn a person scummy.
Harsh isn't it?
Although I completely disagree with this attitude, I have to say it's just personality. Not playstyle, at least that's how I feel.
You refusing to claim even at L-1 is just plain stubborn, and can provoke suspicion. Do you have anything to hide..? Or you need to plan what claim you want to roll with?

Chrimi; Aside the 0x40-Chrimi interactions, Chrimi hasn't been pointing out too many suspicions. One of the few she did, caught my attention.
Going back to the tne wagon, her activity.. or the inactivity to be exact, is the reason the wagon formed. Chrimi's rather sudden jump on the wagon seems a bit... inconsistent to me. If I was Chrimi in the 0x40-Chrimi case I would have kept the vote on 0x40 for his urging to attack and (attempts at) tripping Chrimi. Definitely would have taken 0x40's behaviour scummy and suspicious from Chrimi's view.

It seems that most of you guys somewhat prefer to rely on "meta-gaming". Sounds unhealthy to me.
Investigating personally by questioning and processing information is the true delight in mafia, at least in my opinion. Once the "meta reads" begin, I start losing directions. This is my very first game here and as a replacement after 18 pages, it's a bit confusing to completely understand everything that's happening, not to mention actually processing all that information..

This is the best I can do for now and I'm really sorry.. I did read but I can't keep up, I forgot a lot of details..

FoS: 0x40

So stubborn, are you being careless? Isn't a win is what you look for?
Claim, overthinking about your claim draws suspicions.

0x40
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Post Post #438  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:11 pm

In post 437, Drone wrote:Do you have anything to hide..?

Of course I want to hide my role. I want this day to end with scum having as little information about who the prs are as possible, and unless I'm convinced I'm getting lynched if I don't, I'm not claiming.

In post 437, Drone wrote:Or you need to plan what claim you want to roll with?

That doesn't make sense. Scum wouldn't need to think much about their d1 fakeclaim.

0x40
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Post Post #439  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:15 pm

In post 437, Drone wrote:This is the best I can do for now and I'm really sorry.. I did read but I can't keep up, I forgot a lot of details..

Then read the thread again and again until you have something more useful to say. It's 18 pages, not 180, so it's not like it's a lot of effort you have to put in. You should have at least something to say about every player.

Jibs
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Post Post #440  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:17 pm

Hello Drone.

In post 437, Drone wrote:0x40; Since the moment you joined the discussions you were on the extreme side of everything. A single word you dislike would, in your opinion, turn a person scummy.


Claim, overthinking about your claim draws suspicions.


It kinda feels like you are trying communicate with your scum partner here, no? We are all super paranoid about that possibility because of this:

0x40 wrote:
In post 424, Chrimi wrote:Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.


...which feels like it is trying to coordinate a claim.

Jibs
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Post Post #441  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:41 pm

I also feel that 0x40 should claim, just to move the game forward. Preferably within the next ~3 hours, but certainly within the next 18.

Pushing the inevitable discussion closer to deadline can only help scum.

0x40
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Post Post #442  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:08 pm

In post 440, Jibs wrote:We are all super paranoid about that possibility because of this:

In post 440, Jibs wrote:...which feels like it is trying to coordinate a claim.

Could you just clarify if you're being serious here or not?

Jibs
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Post Post #443  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:21 pm

In post 442, 0x40 wrote:
In post 440, Jibs wrote:We are all super paranoid about that possibility because of this:

In post 440, Jibs wrote:...which feels like it is trying to coordinate a claim.

Could you just clarify if you're being serious here or not?


Not especially serious. I assumed that scum does not have daytalk based on , but I don't think it matters whether they do or not at this point.

As you say, if you are scum, you don't need your partner to tell you what to claim. It's more like a remote possibility that I wanted to head off.

Drone
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Post Post #444  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:33 pm

In post 439, 0x40 wrote:Then read the thread again and again until you have something more useful to say. It's 18 pages, not 180, so it's not like it's a lot of effort you have to put in. You should have at least something to say about every player.

Cut your rude and pestering attitude out.
And no. I won't.
Sorry to inform you, but I can't get into business all that quickly, you might have a memory of w/e you want.
Mine is limited.
Mine is to start working my way, and yours is to calm down.

In post 440, Jibs wrote:Hello Drone.


Hi :)

In post 437, Drone wrote:0x40; Since the moment you joined the discussions you were on the extreme side of everything. A single word you dislike would, in your opinion, turn a person scummy.


In post 437 Drone wrote:Claim, overthinking about your claim draws suspicions.


In post 440 Jibs wrote:It kinda feels like you are trying communicate with your scum partner here, no?

If it gives such a vibe then I am afraid I failed at delivering the right one.

We are all super paranoid about that possibility because of this:

0x40 wrote:
In post 424, Chrimi wrote:Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.


...which feels like it is trying to coordinate a claim.

What I wanted to get from 0x40 with my post is just what he promised us, a claim after I post. Frankly, I didn't think he would have claimed even after I posted which makes things quite complicated, a scum would have claimed by now. But then again, it could be only his personality, being stubborn and stuff.

In post 430, 0x40 wrote:
In post 424, Chrimi wrote:Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.

I'm here and ready to hear your claim. A mislynch would be really distasteful on day 1, but you are the only lead right now.
You are the center of attention.

Tell me, is this intended?

PenguinPower
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Post Post #445  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:18 pm

In post 441, Jibs wrote:Pushing the inevitable discussion closer to deadline can only help scum.


Especially going into a weekend with a deadline ending on a Sunday evening. This is exactly how my first newbie game went into a death spiral for town.

0x40, you have an intent to hammer. Please claim. You haven't even tried to present an alternative wagon.

0x40
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Post Post #446  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:31 pm

In post 444, Drone wrote:Cut your rude and pestering attitude out.
And no. I won't.
Sorry to inform you, but I can't get into business all that quickly, you might have a memory of w/e you want.
Mine is limited.
Mine is to start working my way, and yours is to calm down.

"I'm not gonna bother giving reads on more than 2 players, because the guy that criticized me for not doing so sounded rude to me!"
"Getting reads is way too difficult for me, because my memory is so limited I can't remember anything meaningful!"

Yeah. You may as well claim scum then, because I doubt that even a pr claim would save you from getting lynched if you refuse to give reads on more than 2 players.

UNVOTE: Chrimi
VOTE: Drone

implosion
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Post Post #447  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:32 pm

@Drone, welcome - feel free to take the game at your own pace. It's nice if you have a general idea of what's happened so far but it's often difficult as a replacement to get a strong sense of reads from what's happened in the game so far since you didn't get to experience it in real time, so it's fine to focus on getting reads from whatever happens from now.




@0x40, the biggest reason that delaying a claim is anti-town is because it stifles discussion; many people are waiting on your claim to be able to continue their line of thought in the game, and we don't really care that you say it's anti-town for you to claim because we don't know your alignment. Someone is going to be run up and forced to claim; the fact that it's you doesn't make it anti-town to claim, even if you are town.

PP also brings up a good point re: the weekend. This game stagnated very hard last weekend. We don't want it stagnating as deadline approaches and we have a looming L-1 wagon with no other real wagons, especially if 0x claims a power role and we decide to unvote him.

I'm also going to push for a claim asap; it's very clear with 4 people voting and 3 more (Chrimi, Drone, myself) expressing suspicion that 0x is going to be the lynch today unless something significant changes out of nowhere, which is unlikely to happen at this point from anything but a claim.

implosion
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Post Post #448  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:34 pm

In post 446, 0x40 wrote:
In post 444, Drone wrote:Cut your rude and pestering attitude out.
And no. I won't.
Sorry to inform you, but I can't get into business all that quickly, you might have a memory of w/e you want.
Mine is limited.
Mine is to start working my way, and yours is to calm down.

"I'm not gonna bother giving reads on more than 2 players, because the guy that criticized me for not doing so sounded rude to me!"
"Getting reads is way too difficult for me, because my memory is so limited I can't remember anything meaningful!"

Yeah. You may as well claim scum then, because I doubt that even a pr claim would save you from getting lynched if you refuse to give reads on more than 2 players.

UNVOTE: Chrimi
VOTE: Drone

Yet again, you're taking a very black and white approach to things - not everyone has the time, motivation or attention span, even as town, to re-read over a game several times. There are plenty of good players on this site who will replace into games and then not even read them because it's more productive to focus effort on deducing reads from actually interacting with players.

He literally made his first post 3 hours ago; only having reads on two players at that point is not a scumclaim.

shannon
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Post Post #449  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:04 pm

I am not very impressed with 0x40's reason for not claiming. I'm referring to this - "Of course I want to hide my role. I want this day to end with scum having as little information about who the prs are as possible, and unless I'm convinced I'm getting lynched if I don't, I'm not claiming."

0x40, here are the problems with this, for me:

1) Flips give info to scum, so if you're holding out and someone hammers you anyway, scum will know your role.
2) If you were going to claim a PR and are trying to avoid it, 1) happening is really bad because it doesn't give any other town PRs the chance to save you.
3)You haven't identified another candidate for scum. At least give us someone else to look at?

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