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Disclaimer: I haven't read through 22 pages so if this has already been discussed, please just point me to the specific page where discussion commenced.
I feel that overall, it doesn't make sense as an award category because unlike "Best scumteam," the individual performances of the players in the town matter very little. For instance someone could be having a below-average game and yet the town that they are in wins the award and everyone in it gets a scummy.
This causes:
Devaluation of the scummy: The scummy is a valuable award and a source of pride for the holder and the community. When you award it to a whole group of people without even considering their individual effort, it could lead to undeserving recipients receiving the award. The other recipients of other awards would be on the same level as the "Best Town" category for the purposes of Scummies Invitationals etc. This leads to a lowering of value of what having a scummy means and turns it from something to be earned to something that can be had purely due to the luck of the draw. Also, the choices this year for "Best Town" were very, very limited.
== Counterplan ==
I propose awarding an individual award for best performance in a town victory. This would be distinct from the Best Mafia Catcher award as the latter is a Body-of-Work award while my proposal involves someone who performed best in a town win. It essentially means we have a "Best town" category. And in the category, after the best town win has been selected, the judges then select one person who was most instrumental in the win to be given that award.
Thoughts?
worthy of discussion
now that Smooth Operator is gone, best town is the weakest award imo
town wins as a team, so town wins should only go to the TEAM that does the best
any PR that deserves an award for good play should have been on a winning town team
good PR play is already a consideration for Best Town
In post 561, Untrod Tripod wrote:any PR that deserves an award for good play should have been on a winning town team
This is kind of why I was thinking about it, because sometimes a single player is so outstanding for one game, even though they lost. Things like best mafia catcher are body of work awards but I often wish I could help recognize a person who played incredibly for that one game, despite the rest of the team, perhaps, derping about and losing. It's hardly ever up to a single player to carry a team, often not very feasible, and of course it is a team game but a lot of games don't go that way. You don't get to choose your teammates but you do get to choose how you play the role you're given.
best player on a losing cause has been discussed before.
I've been judging/running things for the past threeish years, and if anything we have been tending to err on the side of discriminating against people for being "big names"
additional counterpoint: this hasn't been fun in the past few years and we hope the changes will make it so
additionally: it's hard to actually quantify "fun", so we're just trying to make it less of a sprawling mess where everything feels like a participation trophy and a metric fuckton of busywork
In post 837, Katsuki wrote:Do you think there are issues with the current methods of judging? If so, any examples of what?
Yeah. There's basically no consistent criteria for awards between judges and to a large extent it seems from my perspective that the judges are forced to skim through games because there's such a huge ratio of noise to signal and it's overwhelming. I say that as Grand Pooh Bah and as a former judge.
we're working on judging rubrics to make sure games are judged more fairly, more thoroughly, and more consistently.
In post 901, Realeo wrote:I have a question. When judges collaborate, how do you work? Do you lynch judge member until all remaining judge decides on an unanimous decision? Do you use VRI--that is used by Oscar, or do you just talk, talk, talk?
Because if it's a talk, talk, talk, I would like to nominate something different.
in general an award is more meaningful if it has a somewhat narrow criteria for judging. best town as a group is just too broad to judge in a consistent way that actually rewards anything other than good sheeping.
In post 1011, Cerberus v666 wrote:I believe everyone who is familiar with me should figure out what I'm the best at, and design an award for that specific thing, so I can be guaranteed to win going forward without having to do anything more amazing than I normally do.
In post 1024, LicketyQuickety wrote:OK, so I can already tell this prolly is a pretty controversial idea but what if we had a "Most Feared Hydra" award?
feared in the sense of "this hydra ruins games by being generally shit" or feared in the sense of "this hydra ruins games by being toxic"?
In post 1034, xRECKONERx wrote:Why do you think we need that when we literally had a hydra win the best scum player award this year
Hydra's are actually a thing. What I mean is that I think it would be best if people stop burying their heads in the sand fighting the inevitability that Hydra's are very very popular amongst players and I think more regular playing players do do Hydras than do not. Giving a Hydra a specific award gives Hydra players an incentive to play to the best of their ability, to elevate their play to something they couldn't do by themselves alone. It adds a layer of competition to Hydra play - especially but not limited to Hydra only games.
I don't think Hydra's should be able to be eligible to win the Body of Work and Single Game awards. I think things like winning Most Cunning Manipulator is a lot easier to win if you are in a Hydra with someone. Not to take away the Skill that is found in Malakittens and Plotinus, because I respect both players play a lot. But with awards like Most Cunning Manipulator, its almost like having a Team within a Team and I feel that all the single player awards and body of work awards should be specific to individual players. Two heads are better that one, and I think it gives Hydra players an edge when considering who is the "Best" - singular.
There should be a single "Best" for any award that can be won by a single person and a special award that is specific to Hydra play. I do think that when considering Moderation that Hydras should be eligible. And I say this not considering in the slightest that Mala and Plot should be stripped of their title - they deserved it.
It kind of seems like you're holistically making the point that the degree of difficulty is lower with a hydra and therefore they need separate awards. If the degree of difficulty truly is lower, that means hydras have an unfair advantage and therefore should not be allowed in games at all.
Additionally, the argument that hydras are "inevitable" is funny considering they've been around for like six years now and haven't had significant numerical growth for a years.
Judging is A LOT of work.
Especially when there's little discretion in nominations and there's a good half-dozen or dozen games entered for each category.
And its entirely a volunteer basis.
I was a judge for 2011. And another year.
I know, I have been a judge multiple times too
It's a lot of work, yes, but perhaps instead of just announcing the position of scummies judge and hoping the right people sign up (many were lazy/took a long time this time around, not naming names), we should invite people we find to be excellent at such tedious work who appreciate attention to detail (perhaps look at the people who balance setups, mod crazy games with a lot of swingy roles (which turn out well repeatedly)), etc. Names come to mind such as callforjudgement (he even has "judge" in his name for crying out loud), Varsoon, mhsmith0.
If we invite high-caliber people, perhaps they will realize it's another way they can contribute to the community that they might not have considered before, because they were otherwise occupied doing their other community service.
Anyway... not trying to be argumentative, just explaining my point and showing that there was a thought process behind it.
It is likely that a Kodak Moment type of award for Large Social games will be included in next year's Scummies. I love the idea and we'll have to talk among the SSC about how to get that in there.
