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Post Post #100 (isolation #0) » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:49 am

Post by Grendel »

As this is my opening post I just wanna say that I look forward to matching wits with you all! :)

Anyone up for some questions? I tried RQS in my last offsite game and it got some pretty good discussion going. I know it’s not very popular here, but
I at the very least
prefer it over RVS.

1) Do you prefer to play as Town, Mafia, or Independent?
2) What is your favorite role?
3) What are your strengths as a player?
4) What are your weaknesses as a player?
5) Do your strengths and weaknesses change with your alignment?
6) Do you believe in having a D1 trust/buddy? If “yes” who here would be your D1 trust/buddy?
7) What is the story behind your current avatar picture?

Incase you're wondering, yes, I do have some reasons backing some/all of these questions. And I'll explain them once I get some answers.
In post 8, Wake1 wrote:VOTE: Grendel

Unsure I trust man-eating monsters.
Congrats on being the first person in this forum to RVS vote me for the mythological origins of my username.

What are your thoughts on the current game state?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #1) » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:55 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 101, Robbnva wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:Anyone up for some questions?
No

next
Why not?
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Post Post #111 (isolation #2) » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:16 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 104, BBmolla wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:Anyone up for some questions? I tried RQS in my last offsite game and it got some pretty good discussion going. I know it’s not very popular here, but I at the very least prefer it over RVS.
RQS does not provide any useful content as all of it is alignment irrelevant.

RVS is alignment relevant.
Okay, how is a random vote alignment relevant when it is random?

Random implies their is no logical basis behind it right?
In post 106, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 101, Robbnva wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:Anyone up for some questions?
No

next
how will those questions benefit the town :shifty:
I think questions are good because it forces scum to take multiple stances early on. Thereby increasing the chance that scum trip over themselves.

I already explained I have reasons, but if I explained why now then it'd defeat the purpose.
Robbnva wrote: Stupid
Distracts from the game
Teaches me nothing that helps me in the game
Stupid
Waste of time
Did I say stupid?
I would say the same of early game joke posting, and RVS.

I'm disappointed that you feel that way, but I'm not offended. Thanks for the apology anyways though.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #3) » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:32 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 112, BBmolla wrote:
In post 111, Grendel wrote:Okay, how is a random vote alignment relevant when it is random?
You are directly interacting with a player. And the thought is that RVS is never truly random.
Why can't I engage with somebody if I like/dislike their answer to a question? Does that not count as interacting?

If it isn't random then calling it RVS is an awful misnomer.
In post 114, BBmolla wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:1) Do you prefer to play as Town, Mafia, or Independent?
2) What is your favorite role?
3) What are your strengths as a player?
4) What are your weaknesses as a player?
5) Do your strengths and weaknesses change with your alignment?
7) What is the story behind your current avatar picture?
I don't see how theory/alignment irrelevant questions will cause scum to trip over themselves. It'll just allow them to post fluff content without getting called out.
Getting me to explain the intent of the questions before their answered certainly would render them useless.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #4) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:11 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 132, BBmolla wrote:
In post 119, Grendel wrote:Why can't I engage with somebody if I like/dislike their answer to a question? Does that not count as interacting?
Grendel what's your favorite TV show?
I figure you are mocking me, but I’ll bite anyway.
I like the Twilight Zone. You?
In post 147, Robbnva wrote:

Now let me ask you questions.

1. How many games have you played of Mafia?
2. Why did you join this site
3. Why are your thoughts on list reads?
4. What are your thoughts on townies lying?
5. whats your favorite kind of pie?
6. Ala mode or no ala mode?
7. Will you vote molla with me?
1. This is my sixth game of mafia, specifically the third on this site.
2. I wanted to try some games that weren’t role madness for a change of pace.
3. Reads lists are cool, and I make use of them, but I usually wait until nearing EoD before posting anything really in-depth.
4. I don’t like it when townies lie. It is such a hassle to get things back in order when lying town is exposed, and typically the reaction results, or gambiting, (or whatever reason I guess) rewards aren’t enough for to compensate for the risks. So I avoid lying as town.
5. Apple
6. That’s ice cream right? If so, yeah, Ala mode is fine.
7. But he claimed Mason. If somebody claims a role that is easy to prove/disprove I’m inclined to believe them. As far as Masons go if one is cleared it clears the other by default right? And it works the other way too as far as incriminating goes. So that makes this a horrible gambit if they’re scum. Therefore I think Molla, and House is Masons. Which means I think they're town. I'm not gonna vote town.

In post 138, Masquerade wrote: Grendel entrance post. There's plenty already to comment on, why try RQS instead of just reading the previous 4 pages?
Well mask, I had irl time limitations yesterday. I felt I had to justify why I think RQS is good, otherwise it would look like I was ignoring others opinion, which would be rude. I would have said more about the game state if I’d had not been so occupied yesterday. As for why I opened with RQS, it is because I thought it got a good result the first time I tried it, so I wanted to try it here. Maybe it would have been better if I did it right off the bat, but I wasn't here for the first four pages. How are you doing though, post 138 is the only time you said anything thus far, how have your feelings changed since?

Where did cmitc1 claim he was a newb? I’ve seen a couple people refer to him as such, but the only response to this from the man himself is, “I have some experience”. I get that this is his first game here, but he doesn’t need that big a crutch does he?

Going off the answers so far I feel I should edit question six to it is mandatory to pick a trust. -.- But, given only three people are working with me on this I’m thinking I’ll end up dropping my RQS. Anybody else want to humor me?
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Post Post #192 (isolation #5) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:28 am

Post by Grendel »

@House I just finished reading the links and I realized that it was a joke. I'm a derp.

Is Molla always so mean? He comes off as really rude in a lot of his posts this game, and in the ones he linked.
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Post Post #193 (isolation #6) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:31 am

Post by Grendel »

*the links in post 170
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Post Post #195 (isolation #7) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:45 am

Post by Grendel »

Mmm, I guess I just suck at reading tone, and or I am taking him too seriously.

I suppose I'll reread the thread since I'm not recalling things well.

I seem to be having trouble getting into the sprit of things this game, shrug.
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Post Post #201 (isolation #8) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:54 am

Post by Grendel »

I want to say thanks to the people who are taking the time to work with me here. I need some further elaboration though.

@ House is your 122 post a joke post?

Spoiler: Robbnva
In post 147, Robbnva wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:1) Do you prefer to play as Town, Mafia, or Independent?
2) What is your favorite role?
3) What are your strengths as a player?
4) What are your weaknesses as a player?
Ugh I'm bored so here goes.

1. Town
2. VT
3. As scum it's my ability the manipulate people. As town it's my ability to become town read easily

1. Why is town more fun then mafia for you?
2. Why do you like being VT?
3. What exactly makes you easy to town read when you're town?
4. Is it the abrasive attitude you previously mentioned that makes team work hard for you? or something else?

Spoiler: Egg
In post 196, Egg wrote:
Grendel wrote: 5) Do your strengths and weaknesses change with your alignment? 
6) Do you believe in having a D1 trust/buddy? If “yes” who here would be your D1 trust/buddy?
 
5) Ummm. No, I don't think so.
6) No. There are players who are hard to read and are good players (House, Hoopla, and BBMolla fit into that category in this game) and I don't think I'd pursue their lynch Day 1 unless I'm really confident in that read. I mean, I might, but I'm less likely to.

Grendel, BBMolla is right. RVS votes usually aren't truly random. I personally don't RVS very often though so what do I know?

5) Elaborate?
6) Hmm, Say that Hypothec ally House, Hoopla, and BBmolla are conftown, who would you work most closely with to win the game?

Spoiler: Mask
In post 138, Masquerade wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote: 3) What are your strengths as a player?
5) Do your strengths and weaknesses change with your alignment?
6) Do you believe in having a D1 trust/buddy? If “yes” who here would be your D1 trust/buddy?
3. I don't really know
5. Sort of
6. No, that's not my style

3) Then what are some positive things that others have said about your previous plays?
5) Elaborate?
6) What does trusting others have to do with play style?
(You're fine with me abbreviating your name to Mask right?)
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Post Post #244 (isolation #9) » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:37 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 203, House wrote:
In post 201, Grendel wrote:@ House is your 122 post a joke post?
Nope. My preference for scum is well documented.
Actually House my issue isn’t that you prefer playing as scum. Its that your post reads like you aren’t taking this very seriously. Mainly what sticks out to me is the intentional (?) misspelling in answer one, the joking in answer four, and the lack of any elaboration in answer five. Together it looked like you’re just screwing around. That said, I’m bad at tonal indicators so I may have been too dismissive of your response to my questions.
Are you enjoying the game thus far?
In post 205, BBmolla wrote:
In post 190, Grendel wrote:I like the Twilight Zone. You?
holy shit dude good choice. Twilight Zone is some of the best TV I've ever watched, I think it's on netflix now. Favorite episode?
Now that’s a tough question. “Time enough at last” broke my heart harder than I ever expected it to, and is the first episode to come to mind when I think of “The Twilight Zone”, I suppose that’s my favorite.
In post 202, Robbnva wrote: 4. Not sure what you mean by "team work hard for you" do you mean the rest of the team has to work harder because of me?
Robbnva, I’ll try to rephrase it: Is your abrasiveness the reason you don’t work well with others? If not then what is?

Did you have anything you wanted to discuss further from the questions you asked me, or are you satisfied? And by “satisfied” I mean a lean on my alignment.
In post 208, Egg wrote:
Grendel, can you elaborate on your previous "good result" with RQS?
I found that using RQS fit well with my general play style, which is heavy with passive scum hunting (asking questions), and probably not enough active scum hunting (making accusations). It fostered nearly twenty nine pages (fifty posts a page) of content plus a lynch on a forum that is resolutely against D1 lynching, and got players that normally rush to abstain actively engaged in the game. Also it helped me catch a scum based off of their response, there were a several other scum that had bad answers, but I didn’t live long enough to push them. That said, I did come to wrong conclusion of several town as well when evaluating results. There was another scum who vocally attacked RQS for easy town cred, but I didn’t live long enough to catch. The game is actually still ongoing, I was NK’d, so idk if the second scum will be caught. For something that is generally put down as a waste of time I thought it operated well, and gave me “Good results”.

Context to the game in question is it is a whopping 48 player muti-ball, with five irl days for the day phase. The thing is that despite the large player count discussion usually doesn’t stretch past seven or eight pages day one, so in perspective getting twenty nine pages that game is great.
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Post Post #368 (isolation #10) » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:42 am

Post by Grendel »

Reporting in to say I've been busy.

I'll get something of substance up either tonight, or tomorrow morning.

Srry if this inconvenices anybody.
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Post Post #469 (isolation #11) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:57 am

Post by Grendel »

This game is awful. Like I'm not enjoying myself at all
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Post Post #470 (isolation #12) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:57 am

Post by Grendel »

Whatever
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Post Post #473 (isolation #13) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:03 am

Post by Grendel »

I mean, that'd get the rude hyperposters out of the way. But I don't think that happen.

Anyways, why are you threatening this anti-town behavior Robbnva? :(
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Post Post #474 (isolation #14) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:04 am

Post by Grendel »

@Huose considering that you added the most fual to the Molla vs Rob flame you really shouldn't be talking.
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Post Post #485 (isolation #15) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:17 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 195, Grendel wrote:
I suppose I'll reread the thread since I'm not recalling things well.
I'm actually just doing this now, and I'm taking notes. Need some time though, kind of a slow reader.
Robbnva wrote:I've already clarified with a site mod that my punishment will result in a mod kill and a temporary site ban. It's not egregious enough for a permanent ban.

What next?

Only people who benefit right now are scum. If you town you need to trust and believe I'm 100% serious right now.
I don't get why you're so sure you need to do this. You just saying how you hate people adding anti-town quarks to their meta, and this is pretty anti-town. Is this normal for you, or are you feeling idk more indignity then usual?
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Post Post #549 (isolation #16) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:55 am

Post by Grendel »

The red text are questions, the green text are answers/responses to things I missed.

If you're not keen on reading walls, at least check to see if I asked you a question, or responded to something you asked me before.

I'll post my reads list after this.

Spoiler: Pages 1 through 11
Page 1
Joke posts and some RVS, ehh not sure if I can glean much from this, but I’ll try.
It becomes much clearer that the mason thing was a joke looking back at house’s opening post. Also noticing it was him who started it, and not bbmolla as I had mistakenly recalled.
Looking at Cmitc1’s post 22 I have to wonder what exactly he found weird about Hoolpa’s reaction to Bbmolla. I guess OMGUS is why, but its RVS so that’s kind of silly. Better then nothing I guess.
Am taking note that Robnva is the first to cast a non-RVS vote. Props to you, Rob. The “stupid accusation” is excusable given its early D1, and not overreacting can make the game constipated.

Page 2
Oh, I guess Cmitc1 did explain why he didn’t like Hoopla’s reaction. I was right about his possible reasoning though. Nice read list at post 45 btw, you just forgot to mention I’m town. :P
BBmolla has a town read on Robnva at post 37. Huh?
Mask’s opening post is just a RVS vote. Lame.
Hoopla’s town block party sounds like fun. I’m making a snap judgment here, but I want to think Hoopla is town. Gut read, basically.
I agree with what House and other(s?) have said about Vedith’s post at 47. Sounds weird, I don’t see how Hoopla’s post 43 is buddying, as Vedith implied.
@49 I’m Noting that Chaos was the first person to ask Cmitc about his experience, and that Cmitc was one of Choas’s first player interactions. I’m keeping an eye on their future interactions.

Page 3
@ 50&51 Cmitc1… ya?
@ 54 Oh hey, House and I are on the same wave length here. And I guess Rob too.
@57 Bad post by Blank. Maybe the omission means something, maybe not, why are you discouraging the exploration of it though? Just seems like an unnecessary post.
:/
@ 58 Same to Cmitc1. Except maybe worse since it looks defensive.
@59 & 61 Noting that Rob pointed that out, and Hoopla defends Cmitc1.
@ 69 To answer Cmitc’s concerns: I think mass claiming is best served a day before lylo. Or as he put it, “when the majority is at risk”, except one day before. I notice that you said something akin to “I’d scum read this slot if it weren’t so early into D1”
How do you feel about Blankface now
?
@ 65 & 71 Mollaaaa these look sooo baaddd. I don’t know where you get off telling people their stupid when they scum read you when you make such contradictory posts. >.>

Page 4
@ 76 & 84 Robbnva and Elyse call Molla out on his crap. Good on them.
@ all of page 4 Molla is horrible. If I had been there at the time I probably would have voted him out of anger alone. Not even mentioning his contradictory mass claim.
@88 Yes Molla, and you would deserve getting reported given how awful you’re treating people.

Page 5
@ 101 & 107 Rob is very blunt in his dislike of RQS. To the point he is overtly dismissive. Like more then he needed to be.
@ 104 Molla’s reaction is a text book anti-RQS argument.
@ 106 Cmitc1’s reaction is… paranoia (?). Not even logical a paranoia. Weak.
@ 112-114 Molla is the only one trying to make a real argument here, better than the others right now.
Out of interest Molla, have you even tried RQS before?
Much of want you’re saying sounds like regurgitated ‘facts’ that you’ve probably heard others say about RQS.
@ 117 House, what is the motivation of this post?
Your interaction here with Rob is actually civil, and… off (?) in a way I can’t seem to place.
@ 118 lol, wow, Cmitc1 is quoting other peoples arguments instead of making his own opinion known. For future reference:
I hate it when people do that.

@ 122 House was the first to volunteer time to engage with me. Thank you House.
@ 123
Robbnva, I don’t think that is always the case. The information is the same, but the way it’s said (vague, guarded, middling, etc), and the rate they share info is key. And there are some questions that are harder to answer as scum then town imo. I’ll clarify further when I put up my RQS analysis later.


Page 6
Politics… Why?
@ 138 Mask makes a decent post, and humored me. Thats cool.
@147 Thanks Robbnva.
@146&148 I think this is why I took the mason thing seriously…

Page 7
@154 I agree with the masses on Vedith being weird at this point. Don’t see anything really lynch worthy yet though.
@158 Hoopla how much do you trust Cmitc1 exactly?
Not that Cmitc’s vote here is bad; just other things are bothering me about him so far.
@164 House, how does the game progress if we don’t get all “serous sauce” at some point? You’re almost as defensive of Molla as Molla is lol
.
@166 to 171 is some real AtE, and I’m buying it… I too think Molla is town.
@172 I know its response to Elyse, but House does seem pretty off to me a this point. Or since 164 I guess.
@174 Originally why I asked the “Are you enjoying the game” question to House is because I misinterpreted this here post as dissatisfaction towards the game.

Page 8
@ 179 Hoopla is sadistic lol. But town, this and several other posts look town to me.
@182 ChaosOmega ‘s second post is good. Not enough for me to take back the “ya” suspicion though.
@183 Hehe yeah Vedith is not gonna touch my town reads. Bad questions.
@185 Egg is interesting.
@196
Egg, I didn’t say it at the time, but I kind of wish you hadn’t evaluated the RQS refusals. I was intending to do that myself alongside RQS answer analysis. That said you didn’t actually say anything I disagreed with. Soooo… thanks for doing my work for me I guess???
Also, thanks for submitting some answers.

@197 Elyse > Vedith right now.

Page 9
@208 Egg’s responses are very golden. I’m noting Egg’s experience and skill. I like a lot he is saying, but I won’t rush to town read him. Not entirely sure I agree with the push on Robbnva honestly.

Robbnva is basically the most black and white thinker I’ve played mafia with. Not sure if this it is a positive or negative. I will say that engaging with him on anything he disagrees with would be a waste of time. It looks like he just disagree on principle every time tbh.
If I were to disagree with you Robbnva, what is the likely hood that I could convince you I’m right on a matter?


Page 10
@245 Robbnva you wanted to get know me better as a player? Or a person?
@246 Why was that Eyse? Broad, tired, what?

@249 Well House, you failed the test. And your rebuttal didn’t help at all.

Page 11
@ 254 Wake, I’m inclined to disagree, but at least you answered.
@252 Idk why but I’m starting to think that Egg feels bad for me, and that’s why he is being so nice, and quick to town read me.
@265 Mask 3) :( Remind me after the game is over, and I’ll say something nice about your play this game.
5) Hmm… okay. I’d say that makes some sense.
6) I let people interpret this as they see fit, but I personally think of a D1 trust/buddy as somebody I like to use as a sounding board for my thoughts in the thread proper. So its less about perceived aliment, and more about having a “study buddy”, or some such. But I like to let people think I’m talking about alignment specifically because it can get more… useful responses. Unfortunately, I get results like yours as well where their answer is , “Not my style”, which is an unhelpful null read imo.

@268 Noting that Chaos is going after Vedith with the most aggression of people in the roster so far.
@274 Once again House is defending BBmolla...

Glancing ahead to future pages I'm thinking House is who I would like to lynch.


I may try to do the other pages later, but for now I'm satisfied enough to VOTE: House
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Post Post #551 (isolation #17) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:59 am

Post by Grendel »

Hey Blank, glad to see somebody feels the same.

I think that the people who have been lurkering, or are low content posting so far this game is because of all this drama tbh.
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Post Post #572 (isolation #18) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:35 pm

Post by Grendel »

If you all haven't read my post at 549, it'd be a good idea to do so B/C I think I asked everybody a question at one time or another. thx

Also, I'm finishing up my reads list.
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Post Post #574 (isolation #19) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:54 pm

Post by Grendel »

I don't see how posting a wall of text is any less unsavory then hyperposting tbh. I even color coded the questions so lazy ppl
didn't
have to read everything.

Whatever, yours were not as important as others. They weren't too game related anyways. So if you want to ignore them then that's not a problem. I've got something else I'm working on anyhow.
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Post Post #575 (isolation #20) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:17 pm

Post by Grendel »

Oh no! I'm making another long post better hide the children lol.

Spoiler: Robbnva
Town, loud and grating town, but town nonetheless. I did not like what he has been doing post 367 onwards. In fact post 288 and 364 makes me think that this whole deal is all about personal vendettas and little to do with the game. I have not played enough games here to get a full view of Mafiascum’s meta, but if post 440 is true then I think I get where Robbnva’s frustration is coming from. Not that I’m excusing his actions as okay since this countdown thing is anti-town too. Anyways I have strong town lean on Robbnva because I’ve never seen a scum play this self destructively on D1 before, and I guess gut reasons too.

Spoiler: Elyse
Has been alright, she makes good posts and I haven’t seen any reason to suspect her. Town lean.

Spoiler: Blankface
Blankface: Aside from agreeing with him on the drama I don’t really have anything positive to say for him. He has been pretty absent, and his posts up to 390 have been pretty lazy, and uninteresting. It took being voted by Elyse to kick him into action. I am interested to see what he does now that he seems to be making real moves. Null read, but could easily swing scum.

Spoiler: Cmitc1
I get he is new, but I am really not getting town vibes from this guy. I don’t like posts 58, 106, and I really dislike 118. He has no posts with strong town intent. His pressure vote on Vedith is just a pressure vote and means very little. The rest of his posts really do not have anything to do with the game state, and he is not making very many stances. I am definitely leaning scum on this slot.

If Cmitc1 really uses RQS in his case to lynch me I am gonna laugh. Because that is a dumb reason to suspect somebody of being scum. Why not suspect any of the people for making RVS votes? It’s the same deal. The other complaint he put against me, inactivity, is also amusing since he has not been any more active then I have. Any explanation why wanting to employ RQS makes me scummy?

Spoiler: Vedith
His questioning in posts 47, and 178 left a bad taste in my mouth. Also recent post 515 is weird, and I’m not sure what to make of it. He made the stance that Hoopla is scum, I’d like to see him elaborate further on that. Mainly so I can get a better idea of his thought process. Right now I’m leaning scum.

Spoiler: Wake88
I wasn’t sure have to think about this guy at first due to his absence, but I do like how he tried reasoning with Robbnva, and House. I also agree with his post at 501 so much, and share his feeling on House. I read him as null, but I want to town read him.

Spoiler: Hoopla
Initial gut town read. Not entire sure where I stand on her now though. Nothing seems to be standing out to me at the moment.

Spoiler: BBmolla
I’m not a fan of how he has been playing D1. It’s just that posts 166-171 looks really town to me. If I were scum I’d never use so much Meta and AtE as defense so early, since it could weaken credibility into future games to do it as scum here. Would like him to do something other than defend himself in future though.

Spoiler: House
I know people aren’t going to take me seriously on the RQS questions, but he did fail them.

There are other things too that he did that I could see a great deal of scum motivation behind. First and foremost is his interaction with Robbnva. Considering that House has previous experience with Rob he should have known that what a short fuse Rob has. Therefore I can’t understand why a town!House would berate Rob so, there is nothing town could gain from it. Subtract House from the picture, and I sincerely doubt that things with Robanva would have escalated as much as they did. It looks to me like House counted on Rob to be mod killed.

Then Houses interactions with Wake look really bad. Imo Wake was very reasonable in his approach to House, but House remained stand offish the whole time. This seemed to set off some flags to Wake, as noted in post 501, and House’s reaction was to scum read Wake in post 541.

Lastly is House doggedly defending Molla for no apparent reason. I guess he was town reading him sure, but rereading trough the game I swear the House jumped to Molla’s defense MORE than Molla did, which bothers me. Mainly because Molla is a grown man who can speak for himself. The fact that BBmolla is widely town read makes me think that House’s hard defense of Molla is for town cred.

So yeah, I think House is scum lord. You all should lynch him.


Spoiler: Masquerade
Masquerade: I wasn’t feeling very good about this slot at first, but at this point they’re a pretty flat null. But hey, that’s better then being scum read right? ;)

Spoiler: Egg
Egg is a nice poster, and I’d like to town read him, however I’m thinking that this is typical Egg posting ablates, so I should count him up to be a null. Maybe null leaning town then.

Spoiler: ChaosOmega
Chaos hasn’t been very active yet, so null read.


Basically:
Robbnva, Elyse, BBMolla,
Wake88, Hoopla, Egg, Masquerade, ChaosOmega, Blankface,
Vedith, Cmitc1, House
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Post Post #579 (isolation #21) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:45 pm

Post by Grendel »

I'm not going to thoroughly revel the result of my RQS. I'll just say House failed it, Masquerade and Egg were nulls, and Robbnva was null but leaning town.

The reason I'm not going to talk about how I came to these conclusions is because I'd have to retire the set after doing so. I don't see any point on wasting this set on you all if you aren't going to believe me to began with. In fact I almost wish I didn't bother. I was expecting some resistance, but I wasn't anticipating that I'd be ignored by 3/4s of the player roster. It kind of took the wind out of my sails, because I felt really invalidated.

Pre-edit: I was wanting to rant about how unappreciated I felt, but now I think I won't. Thanks Rob.

It was probably my fault anyway considering that I have been really quiet up until today.
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Post Post #580 (isolation #22) » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:46 pm

Post by Grendel »

Huh, the storm blew over Elyse.
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Post Post #689 (isolation #23) » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:12 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 581, Elyse wrote:But why is House scum for banking on Robb getting modkilled? Why is it not just because he dislikes him?
Elyse, if you think that House is angry town. Then can you quote me something from his interaction with Robbo that shows town intent?

I, personally, haven’t seen anything that makes sense from a townie point of veiw regarding his interactions with Rob. I saw name calling, mocking, berating, and clever one-liners that mean nothing. He was very inflammatory, and wasn't helping the game state at all. I’m of the resolve that if House hadn’t been in the game that Robbnva wouldn’t have gotten to the point where he threatened to get himself mod-killed. House has plenty of reason to employ that play as scum, no reason to do it as town.
In post 608, House wrote:@hoopla:

Why is Grendel in your maybe pile?

He's voting me because I prefer being scum over town, as if we can ask the mod for a preferred alignment before the game starts.

He's totally married to this silly assumption, and completely misreps my play to fit that theory.
In post 249, House wrote:
In post 244, Grendel wrote:
Actually House my issue isn’t that you prefer playing as scum.
Its that your post reads like you aren’t taking this very seriously. Mainly what sticks out to me is the intentional (?) misspelling in answer one, the joking in answer four, and the lack of any elaboration in answer five. Together it looked like you’re just screwing around. That said, I’m bad at tonal indicators so I may have been too dismissive of your response to my questions.
Are you enjoying the game thus far?
Misspelling: doubt it was intentional. I'm a phone poster.
Joking: So what?
Elaboration: The questions were answered as put forth. If you want elaboration, phrase them better.

I was absolutely screwing around, but that doesn't change the fact that my responses were honest. Anyone that knows me can vouch for that.

And yeah, the game has been fun.
Hey now, I don’t know if you misread me previously or are just seeing things how you want to see them, but I explicitly said that I wasn’t scum reading you because of your role preference. In truth questions one and two were the least telling, and the only reason they’re in the set is because I thought they were good appetizer questions. The others, questions three, four, five, and six, were the important ones. You’re answer to four was weak. Three was pretty scummy, and five was non-existent. This gave me a null to scum lean, so I tried opening it to you to add more information so I might be sure of my read on you, but instead of working with me you shut me down in post 249. You even implied it was my fault that you didn’t answer the fifth question to my satisfaction. Getting all huffy that I should’ve asked for elaboration if I wanted it. You also were concerned that I was questioning your honesty, a point I hadn’t raised. I had no reason to question your honesty so that attempt at ethos seemed like unneeded compensation. So yes, I have a clear reason to get a scum read off you based off those responses. It’s not, “House likes playing scum so he must be scum”, that reasoning makes no sense and I don’t appreciate you putting words into my mouth.

I’m also noting that instead of engaging me directly about this you went to other players voicing their opinions of me and tried to discredit me. I’d expect town to engage me with their thoughts directly. Not this roundabout crap. Why aren't you engaging me?

About the mod kill timeline thing, yes, I reread and you did say you wanted a replacement before advocating for a mod kill. Sorry for missing that bit. That doesn’t change the fact, however, that you did say you wanted Robbnva modkilled. So can you tell me how you went from, “I want Robbnva to replace out” to, “Mod pls kill this”? Because if you truly wanted to Robbnva to be force replaced then I don’t believe you would have ever been okay with Robbnva being Modkilled even if he was advocating it for himself. You would have actively discouraged him if you wanted to save that slot. And the fact that at one point you advocated for Robbvna to just be force replaced doesn’t devalue the fact that you later you encouraged a mod-kill. So congratulations on making a counter argument that doesn’t actually address anything important.
In post 593, House wrote:
In post 587, Robbnva wrote:
In post 533, House wrote:
In post 530, Wake1 wrote:House, if Robb retracts the demand will you put BBmolla back on the table where he belongs Day 1?
The second he's modkilled, absolutely.


I'm NOT giving him a pass after everything he's done to destroy this game.

I'll take it to mith if I have to.
Oh shit
YOU are the one that SAID you'd be modkilled.

I took your words at face value.

Are you discouraging that?
So it is okay to advocate for a mod kill if you believe that he intended to be suicidal? If you were truly advocating for him to be force replaced you wouldn't have said this.

House, what do you have to say about wake currently?
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Post Post #690 (isolation #24) » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:23 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 369, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 368, Grendel wrote:Reporting in to say I've been busy.

I'll get something of substance up either tonight, or tomorrow morning.

Srry if this inconvenices anybody.
Gotta dodge that prod :igmeou:

I would not really mind a grendel vote after those questions <.<
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you missed my question to you in my reads list.

Why does me opening with RQS merit a vote? How is it scummy?

If its so bad then why are you not voting me?
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Post Post #691 (isolation #25) » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:31 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 589, BBmolla wrote:I'm sad Robb wasn't tbqh.

I don't really think House is scummy for defending me.
I was unaware you required an orator to speak for you. -zing-

Explain to me why you are happy that House is putting up such a hard defense for you when you're already heavily town read?

B/c it looked really unneeded.
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Post Post #739 (isolation #26) » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:43 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 694, House wrote:
In post 689, Grendel wrote:The others, questions three, four, five, and six, were the important ones. You’re answer to four was weak. Three was pretty scummy, and five was non-existent.
Correction:
NONE
of your shitty RVS questions were important, Sherlock.

You have beef with 3-5? Let's review, shall we?

In post 122, House wrote:3) I'm easy to read as town if you're not an idiot (thus hard to mislynch)
4) Finding scum. They're my people, yo.
5) Yup.
3) You'll find out exactly what I mean by this. Welcome to Hell, because that's where you're going to think you are if you think you have any shot at stretching MY neck.

4) Humor is foreign to you, isn't it? My entire easily game was humor and fun because I finally got to be in a game with some good people. If that's foreign where you come from, i feel sad for you.

5) Knowing that I prefer scum over town, do you
really
expect me to undermine my scum game? That's not alignment indicative, it's alignment
preference
indicative. And I've already admitted I prefer scum over town, so this answer tells you nothing new.
3)You're original response is bad because it tells me, "if you don't town read me you're stupid". I mean I guess you could say that as town, but I don't see why passive aggressive insults to get town read is a good thing to do. Mainly because its a step beyond attacking arguments, its attacking the player. So now you're falling back on meta that you're hard to lynch, and that should somehow make me town read you. I don't like it when people act like their untouchable, it comes off as very smug tbh.

Is meta always ppls first defense here? Cause that's annoying.

4)I don't do much joking in mafia B/c I don't want ppl misinterpreting what I say. Like what has been happing in every other thing you post. It's very easy for scum to say something incriminating, then before they get real pressure play it off as a joke. I've seen good scum players get away with this all the time. It's no wonder why you're good at scum if you're all always joking. Its no wonder nobody is seeing what I'm seeing right now.

5) Then why didn't you say that right away instead of jumping around the question?
you could have answered me with that in response since I didn't get it the first time. I did give you the opportunity. Instead you said I should have asked for elaboration if I wanted it. Also, if your scum game so specific that talking about it ruins your scum game then you aren't that good as scum. BUT, you already said multiple times you're great as scum. So this seems like... undue insecurity.
In post 699, House wrote:
In post 689, Grendel wrote:That doesn’t change the fact, however, that you did say you wanted Robbnva modkilled. So can you tell me how you went from, “I want Robbnva to replace out” to, “Mod pls kill this”?
As I've made abundantly clear to everyone that does not have an agenda, my preference was for Rob to be replaced.

When he stated he was being modkilled as a point of fact, I had no reason to doubt that statement because he claimed it came directly from the list mod.

When mods above the actual game mod gets involved, I tend to believe what is said because it's really fucking stupid to lie about the crayons.
You've made it abundantly clear that you only advocated his mod kill after Rob announced it. Don't act like you refuted the whole argument.

I'm saying that if you really wanted to have him replaced you would have maintained that position despite whatever Rob was doing. But you didn't, you slipped and said that you were cool with a mod kill, even asking when Rob will be mod killed.

You've also done nothing to refute the fact that you had enough experience with Rob to know he is super reactive, and abrasive. Therefore why did you keep pushing him? What did you think would happen? Why would reasonable town put so much effort into pissing somebody off?

Or were you "joking"? :roll:
In post 724, House wrote:
* (Speaking of 515, isn't it curious that Grendel criticizes me for defending BBMolla, but has zero to say about Vedith bluntly stating that he would SAVE BBMolla?)
... You do realize I'm scum reading Vedith right?

I even remarked that I didn't like 515 back in my reads list, I didn't said it was for that reason, but going off my interactions with you I thought it'd be inferred.

Liike you're just fishing for little things you can use to discredit me... which I don't see town doing unless their desperate. Going off how you aren't being heavily scum read by anybody except me, and Rob I'd say you have no reason to be desperate enough to make such petty attacks.
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Post Post #761 (isolation #27) » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:53 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 740, House wrote:
In post 739, Grendel wrote:3)You're original response is bad because it tells me, "if you don't town read me you're stupid". I mean I guess you could say that as town, but I don't see why passive aggressive insults to get town read is a good thing to do. Mainly because its a step beyond attacking arguments, its attacking the player. So now you're falling back on meta that you're hard to lynch, and that should somehow make me town read you. I don't like it when people act like their untouchable, it comes off as very smug tbh.
And this is why you're an idiot. You're mistaking personality for scum tells.

I hate to break this to you, but the popular opinion that only nice, friendly people draw town roles is a myth.
Don't call me names. I don't appreciate how you're insistence on making all your confrontations so personal. Its bad from either alignment.

Anyways, the idea that a town bases their entire town game off of being rude doesn't make much sense given how many anti-town situations could pop up. (Ex: This game) Not saying its impossible, but I am saying that its very anti-town, and shouldn't happen... ideally. Trouble is ideals are never truly reached eh?
House wrote:
In post 739, Grendel wrote:4)I don't do much joking in mafia B/c I don't want ppl misinterpreting what I say. Like what has been happing in every other thing you post. It's very easy for scum to say something incriminating, then before they get real pressure play it off as a joke. I've seen good scum players get away with this all the time. It's no wonder why you're good at scum if you're all always joking. Its no wonder nobody is seeing what I'm seeing right now.
False. People aren't as deluded and/or manipulative as you because it's easy to spot the difference between a couple friends bullshitting with each other and scum looking for acceptance.
Shrug, depends on the player's skill level, and if their popular in the community. I have yet to see scum win the game by joking around a lot, but I have seen them live longer then they would otherwise.
House wrote:
In post 739, Grendel wrote:I'm saying that if you really wanted to have him replaced you would have maintained that position despite whatever Rob was doing. But you didn't, you slipped and said that you were cool with a mod kill, even asking when Rob will be mod killed.
Maybe that's because I was abso-fucking-lutely COOL with a modkill because, even though it wasn't my preferred course of action, there's no arguing with the crayons once they decide something is to be done and... hey... it has the desired result of getting rid of toxicity.

Dude. I'm an asshole. Doesn't make me scum.

Build a bridge and get over it.
You've been calling Rob toxic for a while now. Can you explain how your play this game hasn't been toxic too?
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Post Post #762 (isolation #28) » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:57 pm

Post by Grendel »

I won't switch to Vedith tonight.

Probably sometime tomarrow if nobody else steps up to the plate.
In post 753, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 752, Elyse wrote:VOTE: Vedith

Ready for a flip
would you consider it a good time for him to claim?
Why are you dodging my question?
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Post Post #764 (isolation #29) » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:01 pm

Post by Grendel »

You have short term memory loss? That's sad.
In post 506, House wrote:
In post 501, Wake1 wrote:
In post 498, House wrote: I didn't say you did.

I refuse to give Robb one inch of satisfaction after he turned into a cyber terrorist, holding the entire game at ransom for over his demands.

He can take a flying formication and I refuse to entertain the notion of anything related to what he wants on any level. Period. End of story.

All when he is no longer in this game, and you will get an answer. But not bloody well until.
...

So you refuse to independently consider voting for or lynching BBmolla Day 1.

See, this can be taken multiple ways.

If you're Scum you're getting as much use out of Robb's behavior as possible.

An implication is that you will be held accountable if BBmolla flips Scum, because you refused even the consideration of him being Scum Day 1. Scum has every reason to make sure their teammates survive, and what you're doing, if you're Town, is bending over backwards to protect BBmolla. Someone who, as you should know if you're Town, is also a random, and you can't know his or her alignment. You not even willing to pressure him tells me that you may know something about his alignment.
Since you like to reward terrorists, here's something you should be able to enjoy:

Lynch Rob or I'll never lynch Molla.

Lynch Rob or I'll destroy this game because I don't care about anything but my own selfish desires.

Lynch Rob or I'll hurt the town that refuses to do my bidding.

Personally, I'd prefer to have him replaced with somebody that isn't... FUCKING INSANE.

But I'll settle for his neck in a noose, too.
Or was this more "joking".
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Post Post #776 (isolation #30) » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:30 am

Post by Grendel »

Intent to Hammer


Vedith, role claim pls.
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Post Post #777 (isolation #31) » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:47 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 770, Masquerade wrote:House can you just fucking drop the Robb-shit? I agree with Grendel here that you had a big part in his rage with your reacting to it. Maybe you should try to ignore stuff every once in a while and just get over it instead of acting like a child and insisting on getting your way. You acted almost as unacceptable as Robb.
Umm, I was the one that brought up House's interactions with Rob. I'm p sure House wouldn't want to bring that up again considering how bad it looks.
Masquerade wrote:
In post 762, Grendel wrote:I won't switch to Vedith tonight.

Probably sometime tomarrow if nobody else steps up to the plate.
What's your reason for not voting Vedith now but you would tomorrow? What's the difference? If he's scum now, he will still be scum tomorrow. If he's town now he will still be town tomorrow. If you are willing to vote, then why wait? Why not vote him so we can get him to claim and actually have time to discuss that?
As for why I didn't vote last night. I had the vague hope of making a new reads list first, so I was gonna hold off on voting to do that first. But I'm not feeling v motivated today sooo... eh.

Basically, changes are that Elyse is now a null read, and Cmil1 is now tied with House as my top scum read. Also, I now consider Wake to be a dependent read, meaning my thoughts on his alignment can radically change depending on how certain player(s) flip. Like more then others.
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Post Post #790 (isolation #32) » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:46 am

Post by Grendel »

While you're at it Cmitc1 you can answer this for me yeah?
In post 690, Grendel wrote:
In post 369, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 368, Grendel wrote:Reporting in to say I've been busy.

I'll get something of substance up either tonight, or tomorrow morning.

Srry if this inconvenices anybody.
Gotta dodge that prod :igmeou:

I would not really mind a grendel vote after those questions <.<
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you missed my question to you in my reads list.

Why does me opening with RQS merit a vote? How is it scummy?


If its so bad then why are you not voting me?
Cmitc1, You've dodged me three times now. It doesn't sit well with me that you've done that.


@House, So what I’ve gathered from our interaction thus far is:

Spoiler: Stuff
1) I’m not allowed to take anything you say seriously. I’m to assume that everything you say is irrelevant, and/or a joke. And if you say something that pings me I’d be an idiot to point it out or press you about it.
2) I’m not supposed to care that you’re very rude. I’m supposed to see how rudely you treat others and be okay with it. What’s worse is that this is what you’ve most stressed makes you town.
3) I’m not allowed to call you out for how unhelpful you have been. You actively fought working with me, and others. Opting instead to make petty side arguments, threats, and ad hominems. Sometimes you did not even address other’s arguments, because you were angry… the Irony.

But it’s okay for you to do this because that’s just how you play as town.

See my problem is that your whole defense relies on the fact that you got out of your way to be a horrible person as town. Given you go out of your way to do this, wouldn’t it be super OB as scum when you are not making joke posts, or are not being overtly rude, or are actually working with others. Its already been established that you’re pretty sly as scum, (ei not OB). So I imagine that you still pull the same crap as either alignment, and therefore I refuse to town read you for reasons one, two or three. You can respond to this if you want, but I’m probably not going to reply. Mainly due to the fact that I know if I keep going I might lose my temper. And unlike some people I recognize that it isn’t protown.
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Post Post #791 (isolation #33) » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:48 am

Post by Grendel »

Once Cmitc1 has said his piece i'll hammer. This D1 is getting awful long...
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Post Post #793 (isolation #34) » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:19 am

Post by Grendel »

Ehh, I disagree. I think my set would have operated fine if more ppl were on board. shrug. B/c it was overlooked almost entirely from my perspective. So I wouldn't say it negatively impacted discussion. Can you give me examples where it promoted bad discussion?

Not sure if I believe you successfully missed each time. seems too convenient to me.

Hows your reads list going?
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Post Post #811 (isolation #35) » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:19 pm

Post by Grendel »

I still think Vedith could get better results... but I'm cool with a Blankface lynch too.

VOTE: Blankface

L-2
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Post Post #839 (isolation #36) » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:49 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 812, House wrote:
In post 811, Grendel wrote:I still think Vedith could get better results... but I'm cool with a Blankface lynch too.

VOTE: Blankface

L-2
Considering your willingness to jump on any wagon that isn't "your top two scumreads", I distrust any wagon you're a part of.

Unfortunately, time is a factor on this one or I'd already be off of it.

If I'm being too subtle here, I think you're scum and I'm going to be coming for you d2.
Actually House the reason I voted Blankface was a bit of reverse psychology. I only had a Vedith lynch in mind when I made that vote to Blankface. I wanted to see if you'd jump to the Vedith wagon if I voted Blankface. Just to confirm your "lack of faith" in me.

I also wanted to see if you were scum finding excuses to incriminate me, so I gave you something easy to gloat over. Something as town you'd over look, or make note of for later, but as scum you'd make a big deal over. Because you must be pretty hungry
as scum
to find things to incriminate me given that I'm not high on any bodies scum list. Now I know how you feel, and just how much you want to get me out of the game. I'd say you took that bait pretty hard.

You've underestimated me, and I won't be the one lynched tomorrow. :)
House wrote:
In post 831, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 830, House wrote:
In post 828, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 815, Hoopla wrote:
In post 813, cmitc1 wrote:UNVOTE: Vedith
why...?

it's less than two days until deadline. make a choice.

I was thinking about joining the other wagon.
You've had some time to think.

So, what are you going to do?

Fix't
I do not feel confident in a blankface lynch, and i feel like voting vedith could split the votes and cause a no lynch.... so i am not sure what vote i should take :?
Your vote has been dormant for over a day, already.

It could easily be argued that YOUR actions could result in a no lynch.

Let's take away your reservations.

VOTE: Vedith

There's still plenty of juice for Vedith's wagon... IF you act now.


Surprise surprise son
, look who is voting Vedith! I knew you'd find some excuse to jump whatever wagon I was on.

The question is if you'll jump ship again lol.

Right, UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith
Back at 1-L
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Post Post #840 (isolation #37) » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:50 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 838, Vedith wrote:
In post 824, Elyse wrote:Still not convinced that claiming VT makes Vedith town and don't want two claims out in the open cause I still think Vedith is scum, but happy to switch to BlankFace before deadline if necessary.
When I'm lynched, remember this as a very positive pro town comment. :up:
Scum don't care for VT flips, and Elyse doesn't have enough credit to double fakey it!
Then lynch Hoopla day 2 :twisted:

Blankface is town just to confirm.

Egg and cmitc1 will be 2 people to question after Hoopla flips scum as well.
Notice Hoopla avoiding my wagon as they know that I know their scum?

Town;
Blankface
Molla :up:
Elys :up: :up: :up:
House(ish) :?:

Who cares;
Masq
Chaos
Wake

Scummy;
Grendel
Cmitc1
Egg :up:
Hoopla :up: :up: :up:
Heh, noting that prefliped Vedith is town reading House.
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Post Post #844 (isolation #38) » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:41 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 842, Vedith wrote:
In post 839, Grendel wrote:I also wanted to see if you were scum finding excuses to incriminate me, so I gave you something easy to gloat over.
Something as town you'd over look, or make note of for later
, but as scum you'd make a big deal over. Because you must be pretty hungry as scum to find things to incriminate me given that I'm not high on any bodies scum list. Now I know how you feel, and just how much you want to get me out of the game. I'd say you took that bait pretty hard.
:giggle:
This comment.
Ugh, yeah, fine I didn't word it well.

The point remains that I think scum would've made a bigger deal over it then town.
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Post Post #851 (isolation #39) » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:41 pm

Post by Grendel »

House wrote:
In post 839, Grendel wrote:Actually House the reason I voted Blankface was a bit of reverse psychology. I only had a Vedith lynch in mind when I made that vote to Blankface. I wanted to see if you'd jump to the Vedith wagon if I voted Blankface. Just to confirm your "lack of faith" in me.
Congratulations. You "discovered"what I explicitly stated. :roll:
Yes, but you’ve also made it known that I can’t take stuff you say or do serous, so how would I know if you’d actually do what you’d say if I didn’t test you?
House wrote:
In post 839, Grendel wrote:I also wanted to see if you were scum finding excuses to incriminate me, so I gave you something easy to gloat over. Something as town you'd over look, or make note of for later, but as scum you'd make a big deal over. Because you must be pretty hungry as scum to find things to incriminate me given that I'm not high on any bodies scum list. Now I know how you feel, and just how much you want to get me out of the game. I'd say you took that bait pretty hard.
And you don't know me nearly well enough to make such a statement.

This is evidenced by your shitty analysis of my answers to your shitty RQS.

Like your conclusions on my answers, your assumptions here are dead wrong.
Well, sorry I didn’t do my hw on your meta before the game started. Woe is me for comparing an individual to a standard. People never do that- oh wait

Pretty much everybody uses a standard when scums hunting to compare what players are doing to what they think typical scum and town behavior is. You’re right I don’t know anything about you, which is exactly why I’m comparing you to a standard. I don’t know you well enough to know what you do as one alignment or another, but I’m not just going to take your word for it. Therefore I’m using an ideal of what I think town, and scum would do, and compared things you did to that. It just so happens that your reactions to things look pretty scummy to me. And I’m seeing nothing that screams town behavior to counter the scummy behavior.

From your perspective you’re saying I shouldn’t scum hunt a player whose meta I don’t understand. By that logic you shouldn’t be able to do proper scum hunting on me B/C you don’t know anything about me. That is backwards logic.

While I could be wrong I really don’t see what I could achieve if I did nothing, or just sheep other’s thoughts. I wouldn’t be making good use of my slot. Also, its p impossible to single out a play style as exclusively bad, everybody is right some day. And I think this is my day, and no berating from you is gonna change that.
House wrote:
In post 839, Grendel wrote:Surprise surprise son, look who is voting Vedith! I knew you'd find some excuse to jump whatever wagon I was on.
Fucking duh.

If you were paying attention at all, you'd know I swapped back to Vedith to nullify cmitc's excuse to not vote.

And if you were as observant as you think you are, you'd know that everything i say has a purpose.

But as you've made painfully apparent, you're not half as observant as you pretend to be.
Yeah, I saw what you said, and I believe it was a front to jump from the blankface wagon to the Vedith wagon.

Did I say I was really observant? No. I usually avoid flaunting positive qualities because I don’t want to give ammo to people who favor making ad hominems over actual constructive content. In any case I don’t consider myself to be particularly observant.
House wrote:
In post 839, Grendel wrote:The question is if you'll jump ship again lol.
Figure it out yet, or do I need to spell this one out for you, too?
C’mon joke master, you know what “lol” stands for.

I think this proves my point that vague jokes can be anti-town b/c they are easily misunderstood, yes?

And no I don’t think you would’ve moved back to Blankface. It would have looked too awkward to be worth upholding that, “lack of faith in my opinion”, platform you’re promoting.
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Post Post #869 (isolation #40) » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:48 pm

Post by Grendel »

Got home late tonight. Realy tired.

@Egg, your questions are acknowledged and I'll answer them tomorrow.

Unrelated question, but what is the average user age on this site? I feel like I'm younger then most of the people on this site (I'm 19). You aren't all in you mid twenties and thirties are you?
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Post Post #889 (isolation #41) » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:35 pm

Post by Grendel »

Its storming on my end and I'm afraid of losing power. o.o
In post 887, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 868, Egg wrote:Can you remind me what your reads are?
my scum reads d1 were vedith and Grendel
So I'm your
only
scum read? Do you at least have something resembling a case against me?
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Post Post #891 (isolation #42) » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:12 pm

Post by Grendel »

Egg wrote:Page 24:
Grendel, can you explain why Wake's interactions with House and Rob are town rather than just someone who wants to keep the game civil? Also, I don't think House failed RQS. I think he did a typical House thing and answered just to humor you, see what you did with it, and evaluate. I know he didn't really follow up aton, but I think that's why he didn't take it seriously. The thing with Rob probably distracted him from it.
I thought Wake’s mediating/civility was townish because scum would be happy with anti-town drama. So trying to reason with Robbosuar, and House o’mouse to conclude their fight looks like a town thing to do.

Spoiler: quotes
In post 488, Wake1 wrote:
In post 484, Robbnva wrote:
In post 65, BBmolla wrote:Let's just mass claim now

Me and House are Masons

Popcorn House
In post 71, BBmolla wrote:I disagree I think scum is more likely to suggest a mass claim d1
^ scum

Basically admits it if you think about it.
Think for a moment Robb.

You don't think molla was being sarcastic in ?
Wake is trying to reason with Robbvna.
In post 510, Wake1 wrote:
In post 502, Robbnva wrote:
In post 501, Wake1 wrote:If you're Scum you're getting as much use out of Robb's behavior as possible.
This

wake the issue is Mafia doesn't want to lose molla this early so they are banking on me going crazy.

We need the townies to start thinking rationally here. Not lynching molla hurts town. Lynching molla hurts scum (best case) and hurts nobody but me (worst case)
Let's be clear: I don't assume you're Town.

If you're Town your anti-Town behavior hurts Towns. It pisses people off. It gives Scum an excuse to over-react: a possible example may be House's posts, if he's Scum.

Your timer demand is
void
. Assuming you're Town, minus the Scum you're pissing off Town. They're going to want to break your neck simply because they're
pissed off with you being a stupid little snot
annoyed. I'm receptive to hearing you, but don't you ever make demands of me and think I won't go for your soft jugular this game.
In post 503, House wrote:
In post 501, Wake1 wrote:You not even willing to pressure him tells me that you may know something about his alignment.
False.

Me not willing to pressure him indicates that I refuse to cave to retrofits demands. PERIOD.

No amount of you twisting my words will ever change that.
It's not about Robb. If you're Town stop giving him so much power. I'm Town, and I look at it and laugh. You're smart. I know you a bit. I introduced you to Mafia, House. You should be cocky and laugh at him being stupid. Because it's stupid, and because he doesn't have any power over you, me, or anyone else.

I don't pay his threats any mind.

What I want to know is what you think of BBmolla. I want to know that you're not Scum using Robb as an excuse not to question/push/vote/lynch molla. If you're Town you can't really know if BBmolla's Town unless you're both Masons (don't answer). Because of that Fog of War I need to know that you're in the dark just as much as I am, and that like me you absolutely refuse to take anyone off the table Day 1, because we have zero information, and we don't have any flips and interactions to analyze. I want to know if you're willing to question molla regardless of what Robb thinks or does. I never allow some other player's words or actions dictate who I can or can't suspect, pressure, or support.

I also know you're a great guy to play with and smart as hell. I like that. Please don't take what I say in this game personally House.
In post 536, Wake1 wrote:
In post 533, House wrote:
In post 530, Wake1 wrote:House, if Robb retracts the demand will you put BBmolla back on the table where he belongs Day 1?
The second he's modkilled, absolutely.

I'm NOT giving him a pass after everything he's done to destroy this game.

I'll take it to mith if I have to.
He hasn't destroyed anything. He's only been mildly annoying at times. That's it. He hasn't destroyed anything.

I feel like you're over-reacting, but I can't tell if it's from a Town or Scum mindset.
Post 510 & 536 Wake points out to House that he is blowing things out of proportion. And that House should stop feeding Rob content since any content directed towards Rob feeds his negative influence.
In post 543, Wake1 wrote:
In post 533, House wrote:The second Robb's modkilled I'm willing to put BBmolla back on the table.
In post 540, Robbnva wrote: until BBmolla's lynched I'm not focusing on anyone else.
:facepalm:
Wake shows that compromise is possible, and could even be easy.
In post 538, Wake1 wrote:
Dierfire, could you intervene? I feel this 'issue' requires preemptive mod intervention.
This appeal to the mod to end the dispute looks like something town would do. Scum would've encouraged a Rob vs House, or even more likely stayed on the sidelines. Also don't see anything that looks like it was done with scum motivation in other posts interacting with House&Rob.


My feelings on House’s old slot have changed a bit after being away from the game for a few days. I still find his activity pretty scummy. But at least two people seem to feel he was just town pushing a personal vendetta against another player (Egg), or that his frustration is genuine and not AI (Elyse) and I guess they’d know House better than me. And at this point I just don't have the energy to push House's replacement. Maybe in another Day or two people will be more receptive to my feelings on the slot. For now its one for the back burner I guess.
In post 866, Egg wrote: Grendel, I'm writing this before reading any response from Elyse or your reaction to it (I type as I read), but if you weren't satisfied with her answer, I can definitely go through House's stuff with Rob and show a bunch of townish stuff from him.
If you have the time, sure, I'll listen. Don't expect my to readily buy anything though.
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Post Post #892 (isolation #43) » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:23 pm

Post by Grendel »

@KillTheStory Aren't you the guy who utilizes multiple personalities when scum hunt? How does that work out for you?

@Elyse How do you feel about Cmitc1 currently?

That reminds me, I forgot to do this last night.

VOTE: Cmitc1
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Post Post #896 (isolation #44) » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:16 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 894, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 889, Grendel wrote:Its storming on my end and I'm afraid of losing power. o.o
In post 887, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 868, Egg wrote:Can you remind me what your reads are?
my scum reads d1 were vedith and Grendel
So I'm your
only
scum read? Do you at least have something resembling a case against me?
I never said you were my only scumread, nor did i say i still have a scum read on you :?
Uhhh, okay. So who are you scum reading
right now
?

If you're town you should be doing more to solve the game. Not be idle, only scum benefit from that.

How about all the people you're town reading? What are your reasons behind town reading them?
Killthestory wrote: VOTE: cmitc
Thats good.

Did you ever get caught up? How do your reads compare to your predecessor?
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Post Post #917 (isolation #45) » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:07 pm

Post by Grendel »

Looks like things have slowed down considerably.

I'm seeing some good points on Mask being mafia so far... yet-

I think Cmitc1 is the better choice. Cmitc1 has repeatedly dodged interaction with me, and is doing nothing for the game state. Aside from his scum read on me yesterday most his stances are incredibly middling. I also thought his reaction to my RQS was really scummy. His lack of openness, and attempts at staying within the popular opinions of others are very typical scum tells where I come from.

In posts 549, 575, 690, and 762 I asked Cmitic1 questions. The one of most importance, and the one I had to repeat the most, was how my RQS was scummy. He eventually replied with
In post 792, cmitc1 wrote:@Grendel

getting questions going to not necessary a bad thing, it can pushes for better conversation, but yours did not. The only thing I seen yours doing was encouraging shit posting

believe it or not, I am just now seeing this question.
So I asked for examples where RQS promoted bad desscusion.
In post 793, Grendel wrote:Ehh, I disagree. I think my set would have operated fine if more ppl were on board. shrug. B/c it was overlooked almost entirely from my perspective. So I wouldn't say it negatively impacted discussion.
Can you give me examples where it promoted bad discussion?


Not sure if I believe you successfully missed each time. seems too convenient to me.

Hows your reads list going?
He has yet to give me any examples that show me why my set created bad discussion, or even why its scummy. Yeah, he never answered why he thought it was scummy he just said it made bad discussion. So unless he is asserting that scum are the only ones who are crap posting then he only half answered my question. If he can even explain how peoples Reponses to the set were crap post-y.

I also asked him for some more of his reads on players in the last page, he still hasn't responded despite leaving a post on this page.

Really don't think Mask lynch > Cmitic1 lynch right now.
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Post Post #928 (isolation #46) » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:22 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 918, Hoopla wrote:Since D1, my solid town read on cmitc1 has evaporated somewhat. After seeing more of his play he really just seems like a placid, uninterested newbie, and I don't think you can deduce his alignment from classical tells you'd use on most other players. There is just no purpose and motivation in his play and I think it's just the way he is.

He should only be lynched if there are no other attractive options. Hopefully we can PoE the game around him, so his alignment becomes obvious that way.
I think you're being too lenient. Cmitc1 is new to this site, BUT he does have off site experience. So he knows how the game works.

I'm positive he is scum here.
cmitc1 wrote:
In post 917, Grendel wrote: He has yet to give me any examples that show me why my set created bad discussion, or even why its scummy. Yeah, he never answered why he thought it was scummy he just said it made bad discussion. So unless he is asserting that scum are the only ones who are crap posting then he only half answered my question. If he can even explain how peoples Reponses to the set were crap post-y.
I did not find any :shifty:
Exactly. You were blindly cashing in on popular opinion. That's scummy.
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Post Post #929 (isolation #47) » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Post by Grendel »

Cmitc1 has put Mask at L-1.

(I guess that's OB, but accidental hammers are bleeh)
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Post Post #931 (isolation #48) » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:05 pm

Post by Grendel »

Why is that?

I didn't say it was bad to put somebody at L-1, I just pointed out it had been done so there wouldn't be an accidental hammer.
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Post Post #955 (isolation #49) » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:20 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 954, Egg wrote:Still waiting for this to be answered:
In post 945, Egg wrote:Grendel, how surprised would you be to see cmit flip town?
Pretty surprised. If I'm confident enough to vote him then I don't expect him to flip town. May I ask your thought process behind this question?
In post 932, Seraphim wrote: Grendel, identify for me one thing or post in particular that you don't think town would do that cmitc1 has done or posted.
His reaction to my proposing RQS looked really scummy to me. He acted paranoid, then instead of using his own reasoning to say why RQS is bad he just quoted another persons argument. I continually pressed him to elaborate further. He never did provide any counter arguments of substance, and recently admitted that he saw nothing bad coming about due to my questions. To me it seemed like scum trying to take advantage of popular opinion to get quick and easy town cred. Later his unablity to explain why, (or even where), he thought my questions instigated crap posting further solidify my read on him.

Spoiler: posts
In post 106, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 101, Robbnva wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:Anyone up for some questions?
No

next
how will those questions benefit the town :shifty:
Forced Paranoia.
In post 118, cmitc1 wrote:
In post 114, BBmolla wrote:
In post 100, Grendel wrote:1) Do you prefer to play as Town, Mafia, or Independent?
2) What is your favorite role?
3) What are your strengths as a player?
4) What are your weaknesses as a player?
5) Do your strengths and weaknesses change with your alignment?
7) What is the story behind your current avatar picture?
I don't see how theory/alignment irrelevant questions will cause scum to trip over themselves. It'll just allow them to post fluff content without getting called out.
^ this.
I wish I could get more answers to my question... when do you think we should mass claim.
Using other peoples opinion with no insight of his own.
In post 792, cmitc1 wrote:@Grendel

getting questions going to not necessary a bad thing, it can pushes for better conversation, but yours did not. The only thing I seen yours doing was encouraging shit posting

believe it or not, I am just now seeing this question.
Says that my questions encouraged crap posting...
In post 921, cmitc1 wrote:
I did not find any :shifty:
Then was not able to find any examples of where the set promoted crap posting.
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Post Post #956 (isolation #50) » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:39 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 951, Seraphim wrote:
We need to lynch scum today or at the very least make sure we are investigating every angle and folks are not doing that right now. It's been a while since I've played but even I know that.
What kind of angles are we talking about here?
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Post Post #962 (isolation #51) » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:28 pm

Post by Grendel »

I'm gonna try something...

@Elyse: out of Blank, cmitc1, Hoopla, BBmolla, and Mask who do you think is most likely scum team?
Am I right in assuming that you're town reading the other half of the roster?

@Blank: Who do you think is the scum team along with Cmitc1?
How do you feel about Mask currently?

@Cmitic: reads list please.

@Seraphim: You think I'm misguided town. Why misguided town, and not deceitful mafia?
Are you town reading Cmitc1, and Kill?

@Hoopla: Am I correct in thinking that you're town reading everybody except Mask, Egg, and Cmit1? Is this your chosen scum team?
What do you think of Wake/Seraphim?

@BBMolla: Aside from Hoopla, and Kill who are you town reading?
...uh ... What's your favorite Twilight zone episode?

@Kill: I honestly don't know what to ask you rn... Will you actually read the game soon?

@Masquerade: What do you think of Seraphim?
Is Egg just a gut read?

@Egg: Are you gonna sheep me then?
Does this mean Mask is null/town to you rn? Or is part of a scum team with Cmitc1?

Lets get some more engagement going, yeah?
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Post Post #971 (isolation #52) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:05 am

Post by Grendel »

Molla...
In post 962, Grendel wrote:
@BBMolla: Aside from Hoopla, and Kill who are you town reading?
Please keep up :neutral:
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Post Post #973 (isolation #53) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:20 am

Post by Grendel »

BBmolla wrote:My house townread has decreased with kts.

You're pretty townish

I'm catching up
Cool. And sorry, I just noticed that you said your were busy in you last post. Hope I didn't seem inconsiderate.
In post 963, Hoopla wrote:
In post 962, Grendel wrote:Am I correct in thinking that you're town reading everybody except Mask, Egg, and Cmit1? Is this your chosen scum team?
What do you think of Wake/Seraphim?
mmm, i'm not really town-reading you and although Wake was ok D1 and Sera has been good today, I think it's possible that slot is scum.
I'm having trouble placing Seraphim. I was leaning town for a while due to Wake trying to defuse Rob, and House. But Egg seemed pretty sure Wake would have done that as either alignment, so I'm not sure where I stand on Sera's slot currently.

Oh, I thought you were town reading me. Hold on-
In post 612, Hoopla wrote:
In post 608, House wrote:@hoopla:

Why is Grendel in your maybe pile?

He's voting me because I prefer being scum over town, as if we can ask the mod for a preferred alignment before the game starts.

He's totally married to this silly assumption, and completely misreps my play to fit that theory.
gut feeling.

i think his attempts to gain reads from his random questions is flawed but a genuinely attempt at scumhunting - it's abstract sure, but i tend to think scum don't do things like that as often. they tend to hunt in more conventional ways.
I think this was the post that led me to think that. May I ask what changed for you in-between then and now?
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Post Post #977 (isolation #54) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:35 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 967, Seraphim wrote:
In post 962, Grendel wrote:I'm gonna try something...

@Seraphim: You think I'm misguided town. Why misguided town, and not deceitful mafia?
Are you town reading Cmitc1, and Kill?
I find this to be an odd question but I will humor it. I don't even think misguided is necessarily the right word here. I think you are town because you are making a lot of posts, making a lot of opinions, throwing your weight behind them, and trying to get people lynched in a way that reflects an actual thought process and not a process that reflects a Mafia alignment. I was uncertain at first; your RQS felt kind of forced, but the way you handled it (even if I don't feel as if it has paid dividends) afterwards leads to believe you are town.

I am null-reading cmitc and town-reading Kill. My explanation above to BlankFace also applies here. I don't care if he reads the whole game or not but I do want him to start playing and not just coasting off of House's town play.
I make common practice of asking the people who are town reading me to explain themselves. Especially when I'm unable to place them. Sometimes I word questions oddly was to see if I can get a reaction, or rather an over reaction. I said misguided because you used misguided to describe me back in post 932
In post 932, Seraphim wrote:I think Grendel is misguided town, but BlankFace is trying to cash in on a player who will be an easy lynch regardless of alignment.
So its not like I was pulling it out of thin air lol.
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Post Post #978 (isolation #55) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:40 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 976, BBmolla wrote:I kind of want to townread Hoopla by default so if someone could backup that read from a perspective that isn't being debateably buddied, that'd be swell.
I've had a town lean on Hoopla for a while. But aside of her coming to your defense early in the game I can't actually remember anything standing out from her.

I'll look through her posts, and see if I can get a better opinion.
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Post Post #980 (isolation #56) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:34 am

Post by Grendel »

Reads list Cmitc1 -reads list-.

Somethings come up and I won't be back until tonight. :/

See you all later.
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Post Post #992 (isolation #57) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:14 pm

Post by Grendel »

I want to hammer mask.

I don't believe their claim.
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Post Post #993 (isolation #58) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:15 pm

Post by Grendel »

I'll hammer three hours from now unless somebody can give me a reason not to.
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Post Post #1005 (isolation #59) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:24 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 992, Grendel wrote: I don't believe their claim.
To elaborate, I never believe vigilante claims unless the vigilante has a kill they can name off as their own. Mask doesn't have a nk he can claim as his own. Therefore I don't believe Mask.

Way to easy for scum to claim their kill is a vig kill, and that a protective role must have stopped the scum fractional kill. Or even, "the scum must have withheld their nk to frame me". Just too much wine for my taste.
Egg wrote:Probably still Masq, but Cmit would be my second choice.
I'm going to forgo a Cmitc1 lynch for a Mask lynch.

VOTE: Masquerade

That's one less on the Cmitc1 wagon Egg.
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #60) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:50 pm

Post by Grendel »

Wouldn't scum have a role blocker since town had a jailkeeper? Maybe I'm used to different setups, but having a jail keeper makes mafia role blocker a confirmed role in the game right?

Assuming Mask is a vig, and scum has a role blocker then Mask is not confirmable.

I'm still inclined to think he is scum anyways tho.
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #61) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:41 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1008, Hoopla wrote:
In post 1007, Grendel wrote:Wouldn't scum have a role blocker since town had a jailkeeper? Maybe I'm used to different setups, but having a jail keeper makes mafia role blocker a confirmed role in the game right?

Assuming Mask is a vig, and scum has a role blocker then Mask is not confirmable.

I'm still inclined to think he is scum anyways tho.
Because having two blocking roles in one setup opens the door to paradoxes and messier night interactions, as such, mods tend to avoid doing it. I just did a quick scan of 13p Mini Normals with Jailkeepers. There were 30 games with a town jailkeeper and only four of those had scum RB's too, so I think it's highly likely that Masq will get a shot off tonight if he indeed has one.

If you think he is scum, fine, but lets lynch him tomorrow after he's had a chance to confirm himself tonight. Massclaim tomorrow might also narrow the game down enough to be able to tell whether his claim fits in the possible setup.
Oh, I thought that maf role blockers took presence over town role blockers. I guess you're right then, waiting until tomorrow might be best.

I'll go back to my other scum read.

VOTE: Cmitc1
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Post Post #1059 (isolation #62) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by Grendel »

You know what. I'm done being patient with you guys.

I
know
Mask isn't the one-shot vigilante. Because
I'm the one-shot vigilante
.

I was gonna wait and night kill Mask tonight, because it'd be less messy. but if you guys are just gonna throw me on the chopping block then screw it.

We're lynching Mask today.

VOTE: Masquerade
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Post Post #1061 (isolation #63) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:51 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1054, Killthestory wrote:VOTE: Grendel
Would you like to guess the chance you're going to survive tonight?

B/c you're at the top of my nk list.
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Post Post #1062 (isolation #64) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm

Post by Grendel »

I was so close to killing House.

You don't even know man.
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Post Post #1063 (isolation #65) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:56 pm

Post by Grendel »

Also think Hoopla is scum btw. If Hoopla flips town then I'd say Seraphim is the third mafia member to complete the team.
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Post Post #1066 (isolation #66) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by Grendel »

Don't know what Cmitc1 is and don't care.

Egg, and Blank might be town.

The rest of you guys are definitely town.
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #67) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:00 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1065, Killthestory wrote:Also, I'm just gonna ignore everything Grendel is saying since they're pretty much saying their wagon was entirely scum motivated which is silly.
I've been scum reading your slot for a while tho.
Killthestory wrote:Grendel and Masq shoot each other tonight.

One confirmed scum dead.
I'd rather lynch him now.
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Post Post #1069 (isolation #68) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:08 pm

Post by Grendel »

I'm probably more irritated then I should be.

I'll leave and come back when I'm more chill.
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Post Post #1095 (isolation #69) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:48 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1079, Hoopla wrote:
In post 992, Grendel wrote:I want to hammer mask.

I don't believe their claim.
Grendel, why didn't you hammer when you had the chance? ^
I suppose I don’t have to answer this but my ego is begging me to justify my play. Because I feel kind of dumb right now.

Spoiler: Post 992
In post 992, Grendel wrote:I want to hammer mask.

I don't believe their claim.



Actually, this is the first time I have had somebody faking claiming my role so I wasn’t sure what to do. I thought that if I hammered right away, it’d make me a confirmed vigilante. At the time I also thought that the mafia would have a role blocker, and therefore I wouldn’t be able to prevent mlylo tomorrow. Or that I might even be night killed. I also thought there was enough support against Mask that reveling my role wouldn’t be necessary, but then you (Hoopla) and Egg lost steam, leaving the wagon.
Spoiler: 1014
In post 1014, Grendel wrote:
Oh, I thought that maf role blockers took presence over town role blockers. I guess you're right then, waiting until tomorrow might be best.

I'll go back to my other scum read.

VOTE: Cmitc1


Then though I reasoned I could always -
not
- draw attention to myself today then night kill Mask tonight, and become conftown tomorrow. Without the threat of getting bumped tonight by outing, “here and now” keeping my role to myself seemed pretty logical. After all, Cmitic1 still looked like probscum to me. So I took the route that looked like the most efficient path at the time.

Spoiler: 1059
In post 1059, Grendel wrote:You know what. I'm done being patient with you guys.

I
know
Mask isn't the one-shot vigilante. Because
I'm the one-shot vigilante
.

I was gonna wait and night kill Mask tonight, because it'd be less messy. but if you guys are just gonna throw me on the chopping block then screw it.

We're lynching Mask today.

VOTE: Masquerade



I’m pretty surprised that Cmitc1 could be town right now honestly. And I was even more surprised that people were contemplating a Grendel lynch. I went ahead and role claimed to get you off my back, and onto a confscum’s back.

In retrospect maybe the best thing to do was to pretend I derp hammered to prevent the mafia from cluing onto my role. Might have even gotten them to underestimate me. But I don't like bluffing when I don't have to so... idk maybe my play was a good play after all. :/
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #70) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:51 pm

Post by Grendel »

So you guys wouldn't be opposed to me targeting KillTheStory even though House was everybody's pet town read?

I was expecting some resistance to post 1061 tbh.
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Post Post #1097 (isolation #71) » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:56 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1071, BBmolla wrote:
In post 0, Dierfire wrote:01. Robbnva (Town Jailkeeper turned Neutral Survivor, removed from game D1
CAN I PLEASE FUCKING POINT THIS OUT

THERE'S NO FUCKING WAY ALL THESE KIDS WERE BLOCKED
I wasn't blocked. I just doubted my read a whole lot at the last second, and decided to hold off a night.

Also while I was the one to suggest there is a roleblocker I'm kind of doubting it at this point. Namely because I know Mask must be mafia, and I'm not inclined to trust Cmitc1's claim.
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Post Post #1158 (isolation #72) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:29 am

Post by Grendel »

So my kill didn't go through...

Hoopla, are you bulletproof?
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Post Post #1159 (isolation #73) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:31 am

Post by Grendel »

The way I see it is that either I was role blocked, or Hoopla has a vest.

If I was role blocked then Kill is scum. Because I was pretty vocal about using my night ability on him.
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Post Post #1166 (isolation #74) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:51 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 767, Hoopla wrote:
In post 744, Wake1 wrote:If you had to choose between Vedith or Blankface who would it be and why?

Where are you on Egg and Elyse Hoopla?
Annoyingly, Rob's flip doesn't really give us much more info at the moment,
since I think we all knew he was town
, so nothing has changed (except losing a good PR D1).

In post 450, Masquerade wrote:VOTE: Robb

I was p sure Robb was town because of his frustration, it looks quite real, but I'm really starting to doubt this. I'm starting to feel Robb is creating this noise on purpose and he isn't helping the game progress. I think he's scum trying to minimize his associative tells and that's why he keeps pushing on Molla. He ignored the claims in RVS, but later it's a problem? Doesn't compute.
Now it appears he also scumreads Egg but still refuses to move his attention from Molla even though it's pretty obvious almost nobody is willing to lynch him today.
Confirmed scum, Mask, didn't think Rob was town. I pretty sure he unvoted Rob some 200-300 posts after post 450, yet... doesn't change that fact that Mask was pushing OB town for a dumb reason, and nobody called him out on it later. It also doesn't change the fact that Mask was voting OB town Rob
While
Hoopla was condensing the wagons. So Hoopla can't say she didn't notice Mask doing it. If she thought that everybody was on the same page regarding Robbvna why didn't she think Mask's vote was off. At least it would've made Mask good D1 lynch material like Vedith or Blank. Who was the instigator of that day's wagons, well Hoopla of course.

Aside from that I didn't like her interactions with Mask yesterday EoD, and how she talked me out of the likelihood of their being a role blocker. But I guess those could be calked up to more gut influenced reads then provable intent. I feel very comfortable voting Hoopla.

VOTE: Hoopla
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Post Post #1167 (isolation #75) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by Grendel »

Where is Blank?

I'm opting for a Hoopla, but Blank is also a good lynch imo.

My reads are something like:

BBmolla, Egg, Elyse,
Seraphim, Killthestory,
Blankface, Hoopla
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Post Post #1168 (isolation #76) » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:03 pm

Post by Grendel »

@Seraphim I don't see any scum team chemistry between Elyse, and Blank tho

Elyse has been scum reading Blank face day one, and all of yesterday too.

Do their interactions really look that forced to you?
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Post Post #1185 (isolation #77) » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:20 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1172, Hoopla wrote:
In post 1166, Grendel wrote:Confirmed scum, Mask, didn't think Rob was town. I pretty sure he unvoted Rob some 200-300 posts after post 450, yet... doesn't change that fact that Mask was pushing OB town for a dumb reason, and nobody called him out on it later. It also doesn't change the fact that Mask was voting OB town Rob While Hoopla was condensing the wagons. So Hoopla can't say she didn't notice Mask doing it. If she thought that everybody was on the same page regarding Robbvna why didn't she think Mask's vote was off. At least it would've made Mask good D1 lynch material like Vedith or Blank. Who was the instigator of that day's wagons, well Hoopla of course.

Aside from that I didn't like her interactions with Mask yesterday EoD, and how she talked me out of the likelihood of their being a role blocker. But I guess those could be calked up to more gut influenced reads then provable intent. I feel very comfortable voting Hoopla.

VOTE: Hoopla
That line about Rob's flip was pretty much a throwaway comment, as all Rob did was pollute and annoy everyone in the game, town and scum alike -- it's hard to use his flip for anything meaningful. I don't really have any other defense for that, because it doesn't seem like something I should need to defend, but I find it genuinely baffling that this seems to be the backbone of your case against me.
I just wanted to point out you let Mask's scum read of a generally town read player slip through the cracks in a situation where Mask had every right to be on the chopping block as Vedith, or Blank. His vote was still on Rob when you were organizing that days wagons. I think you would be more perceptive of people voting your town reads. Regardless of how unhelpful/loud/bleh that specific town was. And no, it isn't the back bone of my case. I just brought up a point nobody else had mentioned yet.

It was more your interaction with Mask yesterday then anything. I should have stressed that instead of saying "aside from Mask pushing town", but it is fine, if you want me to elaborate on why I think you D2 EoD is scummy I will. Well, tomorrow, Its getting late on my end.
BlankFace wrote:Prodge for right now, rereading. This game should be solvable today.
What are your reads rn?
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Post Post #1195 (isolation #78) » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:06 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1187, Hoopla wrote:
In post 1185, Grendel wrote:It was more your interaction with Mask yesterday then anything. I should have stressed that instead of saying "aside from Mask pushing town", but it is fine, if you want me to elaborate on why I think you D2 EoD is scummy I will.
I'd like that when you get the chance.
I have been unable to honor this today. Tomorrow looks busy as well. I have Summer finals so I am pretty distracted right now.

Friday looks good though.

Sorry for the hold up. ^^;

In the meantime I would like to know if your push on me yesterday prior to my claim was solely PoE, or if you had an actual case against me.
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Post Post #1209 (isolation #79) » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:03 am

Post by Grendel »

All right, here I goooo---

Spoiler:
In post 902, Hoopla wrote:
In hindsight, I regret not including Masquerade on this list too, but to achieve any meaningful information-yielding wagons, choosing more than two usually doesn't work as well. I maintain he seemed less suspected overall at that point in time, though, and the fact that nobody really hustled at all to include Masquerade in the wagon battle despite me ignoring him actually seems like a legitimately good reason for Masquerade being scum,
even if it implicates me in the process.

Much earlier in D2, but this looks a lot like lamp shading to me. Acknowledging a Mask lynch would implicate Hoopla is scum, doesn't make her un-implicated.

Spoiler:
In post 1002, Hoopla wrote:MASQUERADE, YOU NEED TO CLAIM WHO YOUR KILL CHOICE WAS RIGHT NOW
In post 1003, Hoopla wrote:if you still have your kill, it's absolutely essentially you shoot someone tonight to put us back in odd-numbers tomorrow so we don't have to no-lynch.

this better be a true claim.
In post 1004, Hoopla wrote:UNVOTE:

for now.

please hurry up masquerade.

These three posts in succession look bad. Hoopla was very quick to back off of Mask when she didn't have any reason to. He still hadn't claimed if he had a shot left, or who his target was, or anything really aside from a one-shot vigilante. He even balked at BBmolla's questioning him earlier, which should have been a red flag. Way too quick an acceptance of Mask's cliams imo. She didn't even wait for a response before unvoting, and I'm pretty sure Mask wasn't a L-1 anymore.

Spoiler:
In post 1006, Hoopla wrote:Grendel, if Masquerade is a vig and still has a shot, this is a CONFIRMABLE role with a second kill tonight. Scum probably won't have a roleblocker this game, as a blocking role has already flipped town, so we absolutely should see another kill tonight if Masq is truthful. If no extra kill happens tonight, sure, we lynch him tomorrow (or if he claims he shot last night, we can lynch him today).

Masquerade is a pointless lynch today, when it's highly likely we'll know his alignment tomorrow.



Very quick to accept Mask’s claim, or at the very least, that it was provable even though Mask never revealed if he actually used his shot or not. It doesn’t match her push earlier when she was chasing Mask down. I think that as town she would have expressed more skepticism instead of just accepting that Mask could prove his claim overnight. Especially concerning is how reluctant Mask was about revealing information. Like I said,
he never actually claimed he had a shot left.
Hoopla just assumed he did or something. Really weird interactions.

Spoiler:
In post 1008, Hoopla wrote:
In post 1007, Grendel wrote:Wouldn't scum have a role blocker since town had a jailkeeper? Maybe I'm used to different setups, but having a jail keeper makes mafia role blocker a confirmed role in the game right?

Assuming Mask is a vig, and scum has a role blocker then Mask is not confirmable.

I'm still inclined to think he is scum anyways tho.
Because having two blocking roles in one setup opens the door to paradoxes and messier night interactions, as such, mods tend to avoid doing it. I just did a quick scan of 13p Mini Normals with Jailkeepers. There were 30 games with a town jailkeeper and only four of those had scum RB's too, so I think it's highly likely that Masq will get a shot off tonight if he indeed has one.

If you think he is scum, fine, but lets lynch him tomorrow after he's had a chance to confirm himself tonight. Massclaim tomorrow might also narrow the game down enough to be able to tell whether his claim fits in the possible setup.
In post 1094, Hoopla wrote:Also, another possibility I haven't considered yet is a Rolestopper for either town or mafia. And given it looks like our mod is open to funky sort of roles like a Weak Neighbouriser, I think a Rolestopper is a decent chance of existing in this game -- perhaps not as likely as a Roleblocker, but definitely something we should be considering.

This would allow one mafia to be immune to a vig kill tonight if there is a Mafia Rolestopper. It also implies that Elyse was rolestopped on N1, which isn't a bad choice if there is a Town Rolestopper, but paints her as scummy if there is a Mafia Rolestopper.

Talked me out of the existence of there being a role blocker. Then once there was evidence of a role blocker introduced (via Cmitc1’s cliam) Hoopla interjected with the idea that there could be a role stopper. Then she uses the possibility of a role stopper to work up a scum read on Elyse. When it was most likely that Cmitc1 was just role blocked. Looking back, his desire to know about mass claiming could have made the mafia suspect him to be a PR of some sort. So role blocking Cmitc1 makes more sense. Also since I was unable to perform a night kill last night my guess is that there is a role blocker, not a role stopper.

Spoiler:
In post 1085, Hoopla wrote:Analysing which vig claim is real:

For the most part it's unusual for scum to fakeclaim vig, as this really only buys you one more night before you get lynched -- that's all this claim does. So, who is more likely to want that extra phase of being alive? Masquerade was under pressure at L-1 and forced to claim -- this claim is great to allow you to survive one more day, as towns will naturally want to test the claim and will back down. If Grendel is scum, what motivation does he have to counterclaim vig after just two votes on him now? He had a chance of being lynched today, but it was nowhere near a certainty even without claiming.

Grendel is either a vig, or he's making a strange counterclaim, when something like Cop or any other investigation role will work just as well (if not better). Occam's razor: I think Grendel has to be truthful here, as he was under less immediate pressure on his claim, as such, he has less incentive as scum to paint himself into a corner with his claim. Masquerade was already in a corner, so a vig fakeclaim makes more sense from him.

Now that I reason this out, I'm actually pretty confident of Masq-scum/Grendel-town, and really don't think Grendel does this as scum in this situation very often at all. I'd even suggest both vigs being true is more likely than Grendel being scum here.


I do think that Hoopla’s vigilante analysis posts about which claim was real were well thought out, and correct. Yet, I really do not see this as a reason to town read her. I think she would make these posts as ethier alignment. As town, Hoopla would be trying to slove the game, -OB-. But, I think she would do it as scum too because at this point in the game
she would have realized that not bussing Mask would be a death sentence for her on D3
once I flipped D2. So I don’t see these posts as alinment indicative, and seeing that Hoopla is trying to make herself look more townie by falling back on these posts. Idk that bothered me.

Spoiler:
In post 1093, Hoopla wrote:
In post 1092, cmitc1 wrote:should we discuss targets?
Now that I think about it, since we're lynching a vig claim today, I think you should be targeting a pool of three townies regardless.

- If the lynch today is a Mafia RB, then the other vig claim must be true and can shoot tonight. If this happens, we don't want three deaths at night, so you should try and choose a townie.

- If the lynch today is a different type of Mafia, then the other vig claim must be true, however scum may still be able to interfere with our night actions, so you shouldn't have just one target, as mafia will have too much flexibility in their night choices. Again, you should pick from a pool of three town players.

- If the lynch today is a town vig, well, we chose wrong and you are probably dying tonight. For the sake of simplicity you should just pick three town players today.

~~

So, who are your top three town reads?

While by itself this seemed like a good idea, and it would have been if Cmitc1 had lived, I really didn’t like how Hoopla immediately started heaping doubt onto BBmolla at the start of the day. It would be very easy for scum to kill Cmitc off in the night then once the day started quickly snuff out the possibility that we have another conftown in whoever Cmitc1 targeted last night. Claiming that Cmitc1 died because he targeted scum when there were no other night kills to back this up seems just like what I would expect scum to do. Is there a possibility that Cmitc1 targeted scum, AND was the mafia’s factional kill? Sure, but I’m not open to entertaining that possibility right now.
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Post Post #1210 (isolation #80) » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:36 pm

Post by Grendel »

Blankface's lack of activity is making me more sure of Him, and Hoopla being scumbuddies. Him not doing anything while on the chopping block today looks like conflicted scum. Like he intended to let Hoopla hard bus him today, and now that Hoopla is getting heavy fire he is unsure weather to bus her, or just keep lurking.

Seriously, he only has two posts to his name so far today!
BlankFace wrote:
In post 1201, Hoopla wrote:Nothing is a slam dunk in this game, so if we could make a play that gave him a chance to confirm himself as town at night, why would we not take it on the chance he was truthful?
In post 1200, Elyse wrote:The only person you haven't suspected of the living players is BB, who you buddied early on by giving him a townread that kept him from possibly being lynched.
That should be a point in my favour if BBmolla is town.
How would that be a point in your favor in the slightest? Scum!Hoopla would know BBs alignment. That's not a point in your favor.

Reads coming in the morning.
Look at this half hearted distancing.

@Blank, What makes you town exactly?
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Post Post #1211 (isolation #81) » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:01 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1191, Killthestory wrote:hey guys i feel like voting elyse

VOTE: elyse
Why not Hoopla, or Blank?

Or rather, why do you think they are town, or whatever?
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Post Post #1212 (isolation #82) » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:21 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1135, BBmolla wrote:I think we should lynch Kill personally regardless of that
I wouldn't be opposed, but you saw how my efforts went D1, and D2.
In post 1136, BBmolla wrote:or egg

idk
I'm like, ninety something percent sure that Egg is town.

Also, Do you think Hoopla is bussing Blank? I kind of think so, but would like second opinion to be sure.
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Post Post #1215 (isolation #83) » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:31 am

Post by Grendel »

I am bored.

Where is everybody?
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Post Post #1219 (isolation #84) » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am

Post by Grendel »

Killthestory wrote:ill hammer whoever i can
So the first person put to L-1 then?
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Post Post #1221 (isolation #85) » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:13 am

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Okay Kill. Very engaging conversation we are having. So you do not think Hoopla, or Blank are town then?

@BBmolla, answer this pls-
Grendel wrote:
Also, Do you think Hoopla is bussing Blank? I think so, but would like second opinion to be sure.
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Post Post #1226 (isolation #86) » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:34 am

Post by Grendel »

BBmolla wrote:why isn't blank voting?
Cuase he is scum, and hopes to clear his scumbuddy Hoopla when he flips.

So if Blank was todays lynch, would you push for Hoopla tomorrow regardless what Blank flips?


@Killthestory, If you do not want to talk about the game can I ask you about your username? Where does "Killthestory" come from? You know- ur backstory.
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Post Post #1228 (isolation #87) » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:42 am

Post by Grendel »

Because I'm bored, and your name is interesting.
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Post Post #1229 (isolation #88) » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:46 am

Post by Grendel »

You could pm me about it, its not game related after all.

Or you could not humor me. Its your life.

I think I'll get off for the evening. The people I were most hoping to enguage with don't seem to be here.
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Post Post #1240 (isolation #89) » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:21 am

Post by Grendel »

@Blank, BBmolla, Wingback

Will any of you consider voting Hoopla???

Or at least make some discussion... :/

Blank in particular needs to speak up.
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Post Post #1243 (isolation #90) » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:46 pm

Post by Grendel »

I dislike waiting around for a replacement for somebody who is most likely scum.

This has been an underwhelming day for sure.

ahhh, What to do...
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Post Post #1255 (isolation #91) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:56 pm

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I think once Wingback catches up we should go ahead and go through with a Hoopla lynch. Imo this day is just dragging on with little new content. I do not feel like waiting around for the new content when we could get new data right away from Hoopla lynch.

We can deal with Blank's replacement tomorrow.

I am guessing that tonight's night kill is going to be either me, or BBmolla, with a small chance of Egg. So in the event I'm getting night killed, does anybody have anything to ask me right now?
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Post Post #1256 (isolation #92) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:18 pm

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@BBmolla & Egg
If Hoopla/Blank is today's lynch and she/he flipped scum who you pursue tomorrow? And if she/he flips town who would you pursue?

Personally I'd think:

Scum!Hoopla
>>>Wingback>>>Blank

Town!Hoopla
>>>Blank>>>KillTheStory

If we lynched Blank today it'd be something like this for me:

Scum!Blank
>>>Hoopla>>>Killthestory or Elyse

Town!Blank
>>>Hoopla>>>Wingback
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Post Post #1258 (isolation #93) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:20 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1256, Grendel wrote:
@BBmolla & Egg
If Hoopla/Blank is today's lynch and she/he flipped scum who you pursue tomorrow? And if she/he flips town who would you pursue?

Personally I'd think:

Scum!Hoopla
>>>Wingback>>>Blank

Town!Hoopla
>>>Blank>>>KillTheStory

If we lynched Blank today it'd be something like this for me:

Scum!Blank
>>>Hoopla>>>Killthestory

Town!Blank
>>>Hoopla>>>Wingback or Elyse
Fix'd
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Post Post #1259 (isolation #94) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:21 pm

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@Killthestory are you joking?
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Post Post #1263 (isolation #95) » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by Grendel »

Egg wrote:Hoopla=scum, probably Wing.

Hoopla=town, more info needed.

Not even sure where I'd look if we lynch Blank.
Yeah, Blank seems like a good rainy day lynch. Which means that Blank is worth lynching for his lurking/ low content posting, BUT there is not as much information to operate off compared to lynching Hoopla. It is part of the reason that Hoopla is taking precedence over Blank, the other reason being that I do think she is scummier then Blank Via mask associatives, and other things I already addressed. The best I could come up with for post-Blank lynching's were, "well if he is scum then I would lynch the other players I am not town reading", or "If he is town then I guess lynch the people who pushed hardest for his lynch?."
Killthestory wrote:
In post 1259, Grendel wrote:@Killthestory are you joking?
; )
So what are your plans for D4? Will you actually be proactive?

Not that your coy attitude, and moderate laziness aren't endearing on their own terms, but we have a game to win... and it would be nice if you could be more helpful. (Assuming you are town of course)
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Post Post #1289 (isolation #96) » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:19 pm

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@Wingback, I am hoping to respond to post 1278 tonight, but I might end up having to do it tomorrow instead. It appears some storms are rolling in on my end, and I don't like being on the computer when there is a power outage risk. ^^;
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Post Post #1296 (isolation #97) » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:57 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 1278, Wingback wrote:
@Grendel,
from your , it seems like the main reasons you are scumreading Hoopla for are: 1) That she unvoted Masquerade too soon despite Masq not claiming whether she used her shot. 2) That she was too quick to accept that Masq's claim was provable despite Masq never revealing whether he used his shot or not. 3) That she said a roleblocker was unlikely, speculated that there could be a rolestopper instead and used that to scumread Elyse. 4) That Hoopla suspected BBMolla at the start of D3.

1) Hoopla's unvote makes sense if she didn't want a potential town vig to be lynched before she had time to think through and analyze the game. I see it more as Hoopla being cautious and covering her bases since Masq was at L-1 before Egg unvoted and you had already stated intent to hammer in few hours. Hoopla could always revote Masquerade if she still thought Masq was scum after thinking it through so I see the unvote as pro-town and not scummy at all. It seemed she unvoted to give Masq time to claim without being hammered at any second before she could come back to claim.
I think you got the order of events wrong. Egg unvoted before Hoopla did, putting Mask at L-2, Hoopla put Mask at L-3 before my vote came in putting Mask back at L-2. So I would not say that Mask was in any immediate danger of being lynched since Hoopla keeping her vote would mean I put Mask at L-1 and that is it. At that point nobody knew that I was the vigilante so they had no reason to hammer Mask, and my vote alone couldn’t hammer. So I think that Hoopla’s fear of a Mask!vig getting lynched is pretty unfounded. It even seemed that most people were holding back the lynch to get more information from Mask.
2) Masq claimed 1X vig and there was only one kill on night one. It seems reasonable to wonder if Masq was saving his shot for a later day. While it's entirely possible for a hypothetical town-Masq to have shot the same target as the scum, the odds are much lower than the probability that Masq was holding onto the shot for later use. Hoopla enquiring about it seemed like a way to make the most optimal move. One thing I think you should realize is that
you knew Masq was scum as soon as he claimed vig.
He claimed your role. But from Hoopla's standpoint, having no idea whether Masq was scum fake-claiming or whether we had just run up the town vig, the logical choice was to wait and see if it was confirmable and play it safe. This style matches up with the rest of Hoopla's play in this game like pushing D1 lynches based on compromise as opposed to her reads. It shows that she's not ultra-confident in her own reads, so how can we expect her to suddenly be confident enough in a Masq scumread to say "to hell with a vig claim, you are dying today!" Hoopla's logic is actually fairly standard when dealing with claims. The harm from lynching a town vig outweigh the harm of delaying a scum lynch by a day. If scum get run up and claim PR, the best move is to leave them aside and continue scumhunting elsewhere since there are still other scum to catch.
Ordinarily I would agree with this logic, yet Mask was being very reluctant to reveal any information aside from being a X-shot vigilante. His lack of openness seems like it should have been a red flag to everybody. He evaded answer weather or not he used a shot, and that "only scum would benefit from this info" was a major cop out. Also, there is still the issue that Hoopla put words in Masks mouth in post 1025 where she basically said that if Mask does not say anything then he has a shot left. Sort of like she was talking for him to generate information for town. Why was Mask not against this? Maybe he saw that Hoopla had a plan and did not want to botch it?
3) Clearly Hoopla was likely wrong about there not being a roleblocker. I don't think her logic was too far out there. Mods dislike using roleblockers when there are other roleblocking roles out there because they make night actions confusing and she backed that up with stats from past games. That we winded up with a likely roleblocker here doesn't make her scum. Her rolestopper speculation made sense to me at the time I read it and it being wrong doesn't make her more likely scum than town throwing our random ideas on what the setup could be to help solve the game.
Technically she was wrong on two accounts on there being a role stopper, and there not being a role blocker. Anyway, I think that the role stopper speculation took away from the thought that there might be a role blocker.
4) Whatever BBMolla's alignment, consider what he did in this game. I'm
beyond stunned
that he has 130 posts because I barely remember a single thing he said or read he pushed. When he got an early wagon on him, he melted down completely and got townread and the wagon went away. Then he parked his vote on Vedith for the rest of the day until the very end where he switched to Blankface. D2, all of a sudden, from nowhere, he started pushing Masq. Here's something I would really appreciate you doing and letting me know what you think: ISO BBMolla. Ctrl+F "Masq." Let me know what you see. You'll see on day one a single quote from Masq () where BBMolla agrees with Masquerade. The second time BBMolla mentions Masquerade is during D2 in where he naked-votes her. Where's the read progression? It looks like he pulled that read out of thin air.

He doesn't give a single reason why. He makes no attempt to figure out why. He never scumhunts, he never considers what happens if Masq is town, who else is scum, nothing. Just repeats "lynch Masquerade" like a fucking robot. I don't even know why he voted Masquerade in the first place given his only interaction with Masquerade on D1 was a positive one.

Hoopla's also completely correct that BBMolla is happy to be townread and is skating by. Listing out all his posts makes me think he's more likely scum but I'm not even sure. Regardless, it makes complete sense that Hoopla is concerned that she may have been wrong, and then proceeded to check every angle and possibility for how BBMolla could be recruited so she can safely eliminate him as a suspect. So, I don't see Hoopla's suspicion of BBMolla as scum-indicative at all.
It was not about BBmolla himself, it was about the play Hoopla used at the start of the day. My issue was that I felt that optimal scum play at the start of this day would be to claim that whomever Cmtic1 visited could be scum to remove the possibility of their being another confirmed town player in the game. And that is exactly what Hoopla did. She started pointing out that scum could be invited to the neighborhood even if Cmitc1 was dead, and that there is no reason for the neighborhood to be created if Cmitc1 was dead. So she was trying to remove the possibility of BBmolla being confirmed town!

I agree that BBmolla has not been much of a voice this game. I think, however, that he is more likely complacent town then scum. Also I agree with him that the D1 and N1 flips would have been logical motivation behind BBmolla's votes, both of the flips pointed towards scum Mask.
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Post Post #1304 (isolation #98) » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:11 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1297, Wingback wrote:
@Grendel;

Re: Hoopla unvoting when it was L-2:
The danger of Masq being lynched before Hoopla could get her thoughts together was there even at L-2. I didn't get the order wrong. I just don't think that thought process of "
Unvote the major wagon while I think this through
" is a scumtell at all regardless of the flip. In fact, I think it's more likely to be town since if scum know that their bus is about to end up in a lynch, they are much more likely to stick it to the end for the towncred rather than unvote a partner at the last minute and thus lose the towncred from the bus. There was plenty of support for a Masq lynch with or without Hoopla, the only question being whether she was on the lynch or not.

Re: Hoopla speaking for Masq:
Scum have daytalk as the mod mentioned that "Any PT associated with this game will be open for use at all times (Day Phase and Night Phase)." If Hoopla was conspiring with Masq, she would have told her in the scum PT so that Masq could implement the plan directly rather than speak for Masq if that's what you are arguing. If not, you'll have to rephrase.

Re: Rolestopper speculation:
As town, we don't know what roles are in the game which means we'll speculate on the setup and some of that will be wrong. I don't see that as a scumtell, partly because I didn't find it unreasonable. At worst, it's null.

Re: Hoopla's read on BBMolla:
While I'm leaning towards BBMolla being probably town, I think erroneously confirming him as town would be a mistake. What if he was scum? If we don't do our due diligence, it would be perfectly possible for him to skate which could cost us the game. Hoopla checking her bases and covering all the possibilities is something I don't find scummy in the slightest. While it's possible for the scum might look to "unconfirm" confirmed townies, what Hoopla did is something we all have to do as town. You are ascribing just the possible scum motive to an action that town ought to do.
Wouldn't you need to know more about Hoopla to know weather she is reluctant, or quick, to bus her partners as scum? Judging solely from her play this game I would say that Hoopla doesn't seem like the kind of scum player to be quick to bus her partners. So I could definitely see her hoping to salvage Mask at least one more day. I do think that that unvote was indicative of wanting to see if she could save Mask (Which makes more sense as scum since as you pointed out- Mask did not have two town posts to rub together), and she led the reasoning that Mask could use his shot to clear himself tomorrow. The thing about that is with Cmitc1 confirming there being a role blocker it seems like she would recant the plan to clear Mask via shooting right then and there since he would be blocked if he were a vigilante. Instead of moving back to interrogate Mask however, she jumped on me in post 1052. At that point Mask would no longer be confirmable, so why was she interested in trying to lynch a new target? I am not seeing the town intent from that.

I was unaware that scum had day talk. In the thread proper Hoopla still claimed Mask had a shot if he did not say anything otherwise, and Mask went along with it. I am not sure how you could see anything else from that???

I generally do not use set up speculation as a reason to scum read somebody, but considering how, and when things fell into place I could see definite scum motivation behind Hoopla's speculation. Is it could be a reasonable thing to speculate since multiple role blockers are not common when she talked me out of my role blocker counters. I'd say that being wrong here still falls into null. Then though, she introduced the idea of the role stopper in post 1094 which looked like diverting attention away from the role blocker threat. Which means she tried undermining the possibility of a role blocker twice, and the second time looks pretty scummy to me.

Yes, I am taking nieghborized BBmolla at face value right now. I have acknowledged a possibility that cmitc1 was both the factional kill target, and targeted scum, before. But I decided to keep myself from second guessing I would keep to what I predicted scum's play would be today, and assume that who ever Cmitc visited from his town pool would be town if hoopla, or whoever, tried theorizing that Cmitc visted mafia. If nobody pointed out that our neighborized player could be scum, (or at least later into the day), then I think it most likely that Cmitc1 had visted Scum and not town. But Hoopla's quickness in discrediting BBmolla makes her look like scum to me this day start. It was literally the second thought of the day she began pressing, and the first just being a question to me.
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Post Post #1305 (isolation #99) » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:29 pm

Post by Grendel »

@Wingback What did you say your thoughts on Egg were?

You seem to be scum reading my strongest town reads lol.

If you're into forming prospective scum teams and comparing their likelihood why don't you share you top three scum teams? Plus an explanation for their chemistry if you do not mind.
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Post Post #1306 (isolation #100) » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:33 pm

Post by Grendel »

Yo BBmolla, Am I going to have to redirect you to my questions every time I ask them???
In post 1256, Grendel wrote:
@BBmolla
If Hoopla/Blank is today's lynch and she/he flipped scum who you pursue tomorrow? And if she/he flips town who would you pursue?
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Post Post #1310 (isolation #101) » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:15 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 1307, Wingback wrote: I was planning to go through all my reads again to analyze who I think is the likeliest team over the next few days. When I get to it, I think it will answer your sufficiently. I'll tell you where I'm at from the top of my head though: Elyse and Egg are individually my strongest scumreads. I don't see anything that makes them a team but I also don't see anything that precludes them from being a team. I dislike their unexplained townreads on each other. Elyse/Blankface makes sense as I thought Elyse was pushing a Hoopla/Blankface team for poor reasoning. Egg/Blankface haven't really interacted much so there's not a lot to go there. Those are three players I think are potential scum. I have leaning townreads on BBMolla and KTS, strong townreads on you and Hoopla although I'd like Hoopla to be more active to re-affirm that read.
Hmmm...

Really sure that Egg is town. Also got a town lean on Elyse. I don't think I could support either of them as lynches today.

I'm thinking:
Hoopla/Blank
Hoopla/Wingback
Blank/Killthestory
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Post Post #1322 (isolation #102) » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:18 pm

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Idk guys, when Egg said that he thought I was a cop with a guilty verdict on Cmitc1 in response to my outing seemed like an incredibly town thing to say.
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Post Post #1334 (isolation #103) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:58 pm

Post by Grendel »

I am having difficulty figuring out where I stand right now. Still not supportive of an Egg lynch. hmm

Maybe I should read through the thread again. :?

Probably not tonight though.
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Post Post #1335 (isolation #104) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:01 pm

Post by Grendel »

@Wingback, You said you were going to respond to the rest of post 1304. When will that happen?
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Post Post #1338 (isolation #105) » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:10 pm

Post by Grendel »

Cool. So three more days to fiddle around with. Lets see what I can do tomorrow.

Welcome to the game MathBlade. :)
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Post Post #1371 (isolation #106) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:27 am

Post by Grendel »

Oh,
In post 1339, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1338, Grendel wrote:Cool. So three more days to fiddle around with. Lets see what I can do tomorrow.

Welcome to the game MathBlade. :)
Thanks! So why are the top three wagons getting votes? Next post should succinctly summarize your thoughts while I start reading and ISOing.
Do you still need this Mathblade?

You must have posted this when I was already on my way out the door.
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Post Post #1372 (isolation #107) » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:31 am

Post by Grendel »

Today hasn't been great for me. I've been tasked with caring for my cousin, and every time I turn around she is getting into something she shouldn't be.

Trying to collect my thoughts. Not much going.

I'll hold off until this kid goes to bed.
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Post Post #1409 (isolation #108) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:02 am

Post by Grendel »

...oh, I meant to put up more content, but it looks like we're in twilight now.

My reads haven't changed much. Egg, BBmolla, and Eylse are strong town reads with Egg bien the strongest. Recently feeling a town lean on Wingback, but not completely counting him out of being a scum. Math/Hoopla are scum team, and KTS is the trusty third option.

I'll start on Math's request. Hopefully I can finish it before twilight ends. :o
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Post Post #1410 (isolation #109) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:35 am

Post by Grendel »

Going off of vote count 3.10 and mainly looking at the points made today.

Hoopla is getting votes from Elyse, me, and egg.
Elyse
- “The PR” scum slip. Also casting doubt on BB. (Post 1157)
-Hoopla handled to mask wagon in a very strange manner. It seemed to Elyse that Hoopla was trying to salvage Mask before realizing it wouldn’t work, and bussed him. (1182)
-Not seeing through Mask’s awkward claim. (post 1200)
- For voting me, and Egg. Elyse feels the cause behind double vigilante claim falls on Hoopla as well. (post 1198) (post 1200)
-Keeping one pocket town read is classic scum move. (1203)
-If Mask were planning to make this claim it only makes sense that at least one scum buddy would play along with it. Otherwise there would be not point to the fake claim, and Mask would be lynched. Seeing that Hoopla went with it then she must be scum. (1292)
- Hoopla is keeping her options open to find a mislynch. (1316)

Most Elyse's points are valid. I didn't think much of "The PR slip", thought that was a bit silly. Also think that her points that -Hoopla is casting doubt on BB/Hoopla is keeping mislynch options open-, and keeping BB as pocket town read are a contradiction to each other. Really like post 1292.


Grendel
-Hoopla let Mask’s scum read of a universally town read player slip through the cracks. Being the instigator of the D1 wagons you’d think she noticed that vote for one of her town reads made by Mask.(1159) (1185)
- lamp shading. Hoopla was very quick to back of Mask when Mask remained suspect even after his claim. Also very quick to assume that Mask’s claim was provable. Introduced that idea of a role stopper, and tried diminishing the threat of a role blocker. I think that scum would claim that Cmitc1 visited scum last night to remove the threat of another confirmed town player. (1209)
-Mask wasn’t in danger to being lynched after Egg unvoted so Hoopla had no reason to unvote too. And while I voted my vote alone wouldn’t hammer so the fear of Mask vig getting lynch was kind of silly. Further elaboration on how I predicted scum would play, and how Hoopla fitted that expectation. (1296)
- Why was Hoopla interested in finding a new lynch target when Mask’s claim was no longer confirmable? She also led the reasoning that Mask’s shot would clear him. (1304)
I think my points are all valid... well I guess that the lamp shading is a bit of a stretch.

Egg
-Voted Blank despite reasoning that he was probably town at the start of D2. Hoopla wanted to let Mask live before the Grendel claimed. (1204)
-Egg has been town reading me pretty hard, and his push on Hoopla could be partly due to her push on me yesterday. (Inferred)
(Looks like I’l have to step back a day to find more reasons)
-Vote count analysis. Hoopla didn’t put Mask on the chopping block even though Mask was in a similar postion as Vedith/Blank face. Also, switching the wagon to Mask in VC 1.08 makes more sense than switching it to Blankface given that Mask had more votes at the time. (901)
Kind of bare bones, but I'm pretty sure he is town with a busy irl situation. So no problem here. If my inferred point is incorrect then can Egg correct me.



Egg is getting votes from Wingback, and Hoopla.

Wingback
-Reaction test (1238)
- Meta reads on Egg. Busses his scumbuddies, his push on Mask refelects an informed perspective, Egg ties scum buddy to town (Mask to Hoopla) (1318)
-Egg’s suggesting to be lynched looked fake. (1323)
-Egg second guessing his scum read on Hoopla but isn’t talking it out with Hoopla. (1329)
-If Egg thought Grendel was a cop why was he trying to get further information from Grendel? An experienced player wouln’t suggests that get themselves lynched as it hurts town win-con. Mask push was bad because Egg used “null tells”. (1343)
- Egg’s push on Mask came too early. (1364)
I personally feel that his intial interaction with Egg (1238) lead to a biased reading of the game. I disagree with most these points. Maybe the second guessing thing, and the Egg suggesting himself to be lynched I can kind of see. But that's it.


Hoopla
-Wingback disproved the main reason that Hoopla was town reading Egg. (1326)
-Sheeping… (1357)

Maybe it’s because I’m really rushing at this point, but that’s all I found here. just open sheeping and implied PoE.


Runing out of time, and don’t feel like anylising BB’s votte on Math, or KTS vote on Eylse. I will say that I think KTS's vote on Elyse is dumb though. Sorry if this post wasn't very great, really nervous and trying to get something out there before day end. Pretty sure I'm getting the killed tonight.
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Post Post #1411 (isolation #110) » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:36 am

Post by Grendel »

Good luck town!!!
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Post Post #1876 (isolation #111) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:53 am

Post by Grendel »

Awesome job town.

I enjoyed playing with you all... well most of you.
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Post Post #1882 (isolation #112) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:57 am

Post by Grendel »

Question.

Do you guys think i should try and implement RQS again?

I feel like it kinda flopped this game with only 1/4 the roster even participating. But i kind of like doing it, or at least, i like it more then RVS.
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Post Post #1884 (isolation #113) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:00 am

Post by Grendel »

Thanks Egg.

I enjoyed playing with you a whole lot btw.
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Post Post #1887 (isolation #114) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:34 pm

Post by Grendel »

Hey, it sounds like you got where I was going with that set.

Which... might actually be a bad thing b/c now I know I can't gauge you with it. Thats probably the biggest problem I have with RQS is I can't use the same set for long. By explaining how it is effective one game the next game it becomes significantly weaker. Like tells I suppose.

Thanks Dier.

P-edit: Hi Seraphim. You were pretty cool while you were here. :)
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Post Post #1888 (isolation #115) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:42 pm

Post by Grendel »

Also yeah, as I said in the dead thread I thought Wing played very well sans his harshness towards others.

I think my favorite thing about this game is that despite having a horrible D1, and getting little to no use of their PR's town still pulled a win.

Btw, weak niehborizer was a really cool role to implement Dier. Its too bad Cmitc1 couldn't get more use out of it.
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