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Post Post #1300 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:44 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

Teemo gets countered by melees with gap closers
I prefer they, thanks :)
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Post Post #1301 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:48 pm

Post by Nosferatu »

In the toplane how is mallet AD teemo better than AP teemo? Seems like there'd be more damage in the AP build and rylai's and liandry's give you a more tanky feel.
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Post Post #1302 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:55 pm

Post by Accountant »

I'm not sure about mallet teemo but I'm firmly convinced that mallet/pd yas is better than shiv/ie yas
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Post Post #1303 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:01 pm

Post by Psyche »

it's a trade-off
ap build deals more damage in theory but mallet ensares enemies long enough to actually get damage off / kill them and/or more successfully kite them
mallet is also tankier, ofc
right now the ap build is winning more but idk how to decide which to pursue in a given game

EDIT: actually which build is winning more depends on which site you check i guess
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Post Post #1304 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:11 pm

Post by Psyche »

http://na.op.gg/champion/teemo/statistics/top

his winningest (not most popular) skill order now prioritizes w over q, which makes sense if you're not building ap, i think
will be nice to try that out
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Post Post #1305 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:30 pm

Post by Psyche »

it seems my trouble with syndra earlier had a lot to do with not understanding her kit
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Post Post #1306 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:40 pm

Post by Accountant »

mobile assassins(zed, yasuo) kill syndra hard
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Post Post #1307 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:19 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

You can just run exhaust, stay as much under tower as possible and rush zhonya's and you should be fine. Yes, you'll likely fall behind but it's better then feeding
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Post Post #1308 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:25 am

Post by Accountant »

if you've made the syndra fall behind then you've successfully countered her which answers psyche questions about what to do against her

akali top is disgusting btw, you can reliably proc your q and 90% of the time they have no spells to use against your stealth
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Post Post #1309 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:26 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

Syndra really can't fall that far behind. Her ult will still pop squishy's in the mid-late game.
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Post Post #1310 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:03 am

Post by RayFrost »

Quinn's q no longer makes Renekton's w miss, so I am not sure how that would impact the matchup. Used to be quinn just flat out won because of that bug.

Teemo's a lot less scary (for renekton, cho'gath, etc) now that everyone's building him ap. Renekton has sustain in his q, and mr isn't terribly expensive to get. AD teemo's poke was way more consistent and thus way more difficult to deal with. AP teemo just doesn't have that same level of sustained damage.

Darius' q outranges renekton, his cooldowns are slightly shorter on everything but e, and his ability to win extended duels is significantly higher (though renekton still has better burst damage potential). A key in this matchup is actually for darius to not use his q until renekton has used his e - gator can e into the q to avoid the blade and win the trade otherwise. Darius' passive means that he doesn't need the q to win trades as long as he can make them last a few seconds longer than renekton wants them to. Also, if you start w on darius and try for a level one all in, you should actually be able to win it (start corrupting potion so you can sustain through and add a bit more damage to your engage).

The darius vs renekton matchup is in Darius' favor, but the margin for error is higher than other good matchups into renekton.

Trundle beats renekton due to better dps, the ability to sustain through early trades because of his passive, and a much much more powerful late game presence.

Olaf works well into Renekton. He's got exceptional base damage which is sustained from low axe cooldown + low e cooldown (as long as you're fighting). He also has built in sustain on his w.

Kayle punishes Renekton fairly hard for any attempts to engage, pokes well, and has strong minion wave control. She also turns into a late game monstrosity.
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Post Post #1311 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:57 am

Post by zoraster »

I think Teemo is just fine against melee champions. What he struggles with are champions that deal damage and have gap closers and stuns. Renekton, Pantheon (god pantheon sucks), Riven, Irelia, Yasuo (no stun but still) are all pretty tough for Teemo to deal with.

But melee champions like Tryndamere, Akali, Xin Zhao, Garen, Darius, Shen (who has a gap closer and CC but pretty easy to deal with), Nasus are all pretty easy.
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Post Post #1312 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:58 am

Post by zoraster »

Apparently Yasuo is having his tank build nerfed by only applying armor penetration from his ult on critical hits.
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Post Post #1313 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:28 am

Post by RayFrost »

I'd argue that post-six akali just shreds teemo due to having three gap closers and low cd's on her burst damage (she also gets to build abyssal). Completely agree with the rest, though.
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Post Post #1314 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:30 am

Post by zoraster »

Yeah she does. But you can bully her a lot until then as she has basically nothing. And somewhat mitigating is you can require her to dash twice in order to proc her Q (since it requires an AA), at which point you might be able to get out of danger.
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Post Post #1315 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:16 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

Shen can take teemo apart if he can land taunts. If he gets a e + q + w trade off he can basically equal teemo's poke dmg over time
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Post Post #1316 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:22 am

Post by zoraster »

I mean, there's a reason why Teemo has a pretty high win rate against Shen. You may be right, but landing that trade is hard against range. Harassing shen with Teemo is easy.
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Post Post #1317 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:26 am

Post by Accountant »

Shens almost always do badly when I play games against them for some reason. VS Irelia(my main top) I estimate they land maybe 5% if their taunts
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Post Post #1318 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:44 am

Post by RayFrost »

In post 1315, Randomnamechange wrote:Shen can take teemo apart if he can land taunts. If he gets a e + q + w trade off he can basically equal teemo's poke dmg over time
A major issue with shen is that him landing his engage isn't nearly as threatening as just about any other engaging melee champion in the game, damage-wise. It enables ganks well, but aside from that you're not really going to be like "oh no shen landed one engage, I am about to die or nearly die" - whereas if you get caught by renekton, xin, olaf, cho'gath, pantheon, et al and get all in'd, you're probably dead.

So if you aren't about to die, you can just kinda... keep hitting the guy as he tries to walk away after hitting you. Whereas against the aforementioned people, you're either dead or about to be if you keep hitting them, so you have to back off somewhat, leading to them to be able to walk away from you and wait for their cooldowns.
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Post Post #1319 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:19 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

Teemo .always ripped Shen apart. Old Shen had to choose between Teemo and getting farm, and current Shen is even worse for that.
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Post Post #1320 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:28 am

Post by Accountant »

Shen rips noone apart
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

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Post Post #1321 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:03 am

Post by inte »

In post 1320, Accountant wrote:Shen rips noone apart
he does pretty well against immobile sustain guys like maokai. his damage is actually respectable but gets way outdone by people with disengage
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Post Post #1322 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:05 am

Post by inte »

its one of my pocket picks against cheese champs like zac, hec, xin zhao. you win lane and thats pretty big for a shen
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Post Post #1323 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:41 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

In post 1317, Accountant wrote:Shens almost always do badly when I play games against them for some reason. VS Irelia(my main top) I estimate they land maybe 5% if their taunts
They are bad then. In lane i probably land about 50% at least and the ones that don't land are due to them dodging or a slight miscalculation.
In post 1318, RayFrost wrote:
In post 1315, Randomnamechange wrote:Shen can take teemo apart if he can land taunts. If he gets a e + q + w trade off he can basically equal teemo's poke dmg over time
A major issue with shen is that him landing his engage isn't nearly as threatening as just about any other engaging melee champion in the game, damage-wise. It enables ganks well, but aside from that you're not really going to be like "oh no shen landed one engage, I am about to die or nearly die" - whereas if you get caught by renekton, xin, olaf, cho'gath, pantheon, et al and get all in'd, you're probably dead.

So if you aren't about to die, you can just kinda... keep hitting the guy as he tries to walk away after hitting you. Whereas against the aforementioned people, you're either dead or about to be if you keep hitting them, so you have to back off somewhat, leading to them to be able to walk away from you and wait for their cooldowns.
The thing is, people at my ELO don't expect it from Shen, and don't respect his damage, so they will keep letting you trade with them while your cooldowns are up.
In post 1320, Accountant wrote:Shen rips noone apart
I win top lane in laning phase in the majority of my shen games.
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Post Post #1324 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:01 pm

Post by RayFrost »

"My opponents are bad, so my opinion about how this should work, ceteris paribus, is correct" isn't really a good argument.
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