In post 4, callforjudgement wrote:The Lovers are effectively just a single player slot in this setup; as such, town have no real benefit/detriment to them dying early, late, or not at all. As such, they should probably claim to act as an Innocent Child (pretty much forcing the scum to kill them eventually, as scum can't get majority with the Lovers and the Lover Killer alive). This will force scum to start third-party hunting, meaning that they can't take out townies at night like they'd normally want to. The end result probably isn't townsided because town have so little power, but it helps bring town up to balance (the setup is scumsided if town aren't trying something like this, although I'm unsure which scum offhand).
The Lover Killer doesn't really work in the setup because they have no real ability to influence whether the Lovers die (they can claim to avoid a lynch, and the Lover Killer doesn't have a nightkill, so the groupscum will control the death there).
Can you explain the first part a bit more, the part about the lovers effectively being a single slot? The way I see it is that its a little more complicated than just a single slot because you have 2 people voting and they also function as Mason partners as well. It seems like the only real way they function as a single slot is that they both die at the same time. If that's the case then there would really never be a good reason to have lovers in this setup. I'm just giving my perspective here knowing that you know way more about setup spec than I do. Also, you say that it is optimal for Lovers to claim right out of the gate. So while this would give them the advantage of having two confirmed Townies right away, it also paints a huge target on their back and shortens the effectiveness that they could have if they were coordinating behind the shadows. If they claim right away, that gives them no way for POE later in the game for an easy solve. I guess my query is why would Lovers want to out themselves so early in the game when more can be gained from them claiming later in the game like on Day 2 if only VT have died or day 3 if a mafia has been lynched? My thought process here is that the Lovers can lead a wagon with 2 votes and coordinating Scum hunting.. Two Town on the same page like that going into day 2 could be pretty powerful. What do you think of this?
Also, I wanted the Lover killer to be able to win through means of manipulating Town or Scum into killing the Lovers through what they say and I did give them a means to find out who the lovers are. Ofc they can win by chance as well. How would you change the Lover killer while trying to keep the same concept alive in this setup? As an aside, the Lover Killer kinda works like a Traitor who the Mafia have to kill.
We are clearly seeing the setup differently. I see it as Town having two roles that are connected to each other that can either function the same or differently in the game. They have more knowledge of who is Town and can coordinate and Scum hunt together. Meanwhile, the mafia has Two targets of interest (the lovers and the lover killer) and they have to balance priorities on what target to try and go after first (Obv they are going to take anything they can get as opportunists). Then you have a 3p that has an investigative role and can use the knowledge gained from investigations to try and skillfully try and lead Town down a path to try and get enough votes on one of the lovers so they have to claim, there by fulfilling their win con one way or another (either by getting them lynched or night killed). The only threat that the lover killer poses to the Mafia is that the mafia have to kill them. Otherwise the lover killer is essentially helping to get one of the mafias targets killed.
Would this setup work better as a 13 player game where you would have for Town: Lovers (2) Cop (1) and then VT (6) For Mafia: Goons (3) and 3p: Lover Killer (1)? The reason I ask is because of what I stated earlier how Lovers give up some equity from being able to solve more of the game if they claim later and this would give them EV for claiming later, I think.
I just say all this trying to understand more about setups, so any explanation would help.
