STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Not Chara]

hello everyone.

i only recognize three of you. i look forward to getting to know the rest! :>

[Not Chara]

ok. ally with me then. do i need references? i haven't updated my resume in a decade.

[Not Chara]

i wouldn't count any claim like that made now as reliable.

grapes, thank you for your consideration. haha.

[Not Chara]

edit: but, if there's a reason for it, i could understand why it was claimed.

McMenno: everyone is a comedian.

[Not Chara]

we can't lynch now. Varsoon made that clear.

[Not Chara]

i can't tell which are jokea and which aren't, and i don't know anything about most of you.

claiming flavour is dangerous, it says so in the first post. so, i would also say to avoid claiming any abilities unless you must/they are negative utility, because they could help the mafia figure out your flavour.

forgive me for stating the obvious, as i'm pretty sure i'm one of the newest players here. :<

[Not Chara]

Scum all have had their flavor crafted before I crafted any of the town roles--I have built this setup around scum having effective, believable safe-claims.
Flavor-claims are not anywhere near the sort of town-clear that you might expect from other games.
Furthermore, I have given scum measures to punish players who are attempting to flavor-game the setup. Claim flavor at your own risk.

that's the specifics of it, grapes.

i suggest everyone give a careful read through of the setup/rules, if they haven't.

Firebringer: i saw Kubo and the Two Strings recently. it was excellent.

[Not Chara]

it's a stop-motion adventure story set in ancient Japan. it's by Laika, the studio that animated Coraline, Paranorman, the Box Trolls, and some unknown-to-me part of Corpse Bride.

edit: Rational, would you ally with me? i'm aware you've known of my existence for all of an hour.

[Not Chara]

I am sorry people who want to ally with me, but I think my heart belongs to Shiro.

damn it all.
there goes my top choice. :<

[Not Chara]

Rational: i've skimmed the first Steven Universe game. also:
"if they promise to actively participate in our alliance and TALK WITH ME about the game. "

i agree with 83, too. well, obviously.

[Not Chara]

grapes is still my top choice for allying with.

if anyone happens to want to ally with me they can certainly ask, i'm just not sure if i'll say yes.

[Not Chara]

yes, i did change.

thank you. :> this artist is very good. i found this avatar much more optimistic than my last one.

[Not Chara]

Rational: no, i didn't. you're referring to your private topic between Drixx and Cerberus, yes?

grapes: fantastic.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

you can't vote right now. this phase is just for discussion and setting up alliances.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

you can't vote right now. this phase is just for discussion and setting up alliances.

Oh right, wanna ally?

no, thank you.

who i'm allying has already been decided.

edit: Cerb, i hope you've watched the episodes out for season 4! again, still good.

[Not Chara]

*shrug* You oughta know by now I perceive even questions about possible crumbs as a good idea as role fishing.

Not going to get in a meta debate here, but this is rubbish.

OK. Enjoy our perpetual disagreement and being townread.

disagreement between your two heads, or between you and Firebringer?

[Not Chara]

oh, agreed. have a BLT instead.

Cerb: how lucky! tell me what you think of it. but i believe you'll enjoy it immensely.

[Not Chara]

i'd say it's only about 2/3 shitposting, Foxbird. also, congratulations.

OWK: good to know.

[Not Chara]

@Not Chara, I'm inacapable of the feat. How good are you at shitposting? Nice to meet you.

~VeggieWoman

nice to meet you too! i'm terrible at it.

[Not Chara]

i don't have a comment on Firebringer's propensity for complaining/his meta at all, so.

The BLT sounds delicious though. Everyone should listen to Not Chara about food.

yes, they should. healthy eating begins and ends with a BLT, plus 3 pounds of chocolate to round out one's day.

[Not Chara]

if you're town, your ally claiming their role/flavour to you can only be helpful, Almost50. mind telling me why you feel so strongly about this?

[Not Chara]

217

why is SirCakez in your town pile, and why is grapes maybe town?

edit: Yume, plenty of players haven't posted since you've asked. there's no need to rush, i'm sure you'll find a partner.

[Not Chara]

Sorry bad auto correct at the end.
I liked sir cakez post against mcmenno

Fixed.
I don't do post preview by the way.

ok, thank you. i see where you're coming from.

[Not Chara]

Yes, though disagree that only scum can survive to endgame. There are ways to achieve that without being scum (ex. unrestricted bulletproof etc)

true, but the conversation is about who would be picked to be nightkilled. so, nothing to do with the player's role.

i don't think it's strange for a player to expect to survive to near the endgame, if that's been their experience before.
but where did kraska claim that they would?

[Not Chara]

I think RR is scum btw.

really? why?

[Not Chara]

They didn't claim to survive till end game, but they are planning for their survival through till the first Season Finale at least, which is mid game.

oh, thank you.

in that case, i don't think there's too much to read into there.

Firebringer: that doesn't really help me, but i get the sense this is how you play.

[Not Chara]

grapes, whenever you are around again: what do you hope to get out of our topic, and why do you think i look town?

[Not Chara]

Hey guys I got to say something

Steven universe is awesome but to be honest?

Adventure time is better yo, Where's the adventure time mafia at D:

this is mafia. is anyone a prequel vigilante? goodness.
:>

[Not Chara]

They didn't claim to survive till end game, but they are planning for their survival through till the first Season Finale at least, which is mid game.

oh, thank you.

in that case, i don't think there's too much to read into there.

Firebringer: that doesn't really help me, but i get the sense this is how you play.

It makes more sense if you understand the players.
Like the list of players = Made no sense to me, and when I read my own name I was kind like "what?", kind of glazed over it.
From his perspective I don't think those players are good for sorting, but they are good for deceiving and possibly getting info out of, at least thats what I think.

The way he talks to players shows he wants everyone getting along, he is trying assume leadership role already. That is easy enough to tell regardless what alignment is, but there is definitely lack of actualy poking at anyone.

Then the way he went about suggesting to use "Yumes" ability?
Yeah, no. That makes no sense, why you would suggest to use it.

This feels scummy to me.

this explanation makes more sense to me. it has thought process, i wouldn't call this gut.

[Not Chara]

Shiro: what's there to say, really? adventure time is the source of all the evil i've faced up to this point.

[Not Chara]

don't have a solid idea on Rational, but i believe Firebringer is town.

[Not Chara]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this is a boooooooring post, Creature! :>

[Not Chara]

i've found the best way to avoid boredom is to contribute to the conversation. so, have

you

caught any scum?

[Not Chara]

that's very impressive.
...but i was referring to this game in particular.

[Not Chara]

No, I can't get much without votes.

huh. i actually agree with this, kind of.

i had the same thought, but now i'm thinking intent is just as important as whether there's a vote that the mod is tallying or not.

[Not Chara]

mastin: if you're a miller, you should at least claim that.

i'm against flavour claims and ability claims, but any negative-utilities should be on the table in plain terms, without hinting at one's flavour role.

[Not Chara]

Stop rolefishing Mastin people. Varsoon could not possibly have made it more clear than he did that flavor claiming is a bad thing. Let me quote him for the people who didn't read the freaking mechanics:

As a final note, all scum have guaranteed safe-claims and roles that fit the flavor of these fake-claims. Do not try to flavor-game this setup.
Scum all have had their flavor crafted before I crafted any of the town roles--I have built this setup around scum having effective, believable safe-claims.
Flavor-claims are not anywhere near the sort of town-clear that you might expect from other games.
Furthermore,

I have given scum measures to punish players who are attempting to flavor-game the setup. Claim flavor at your own risk.

We are here to play mafia rendered under the flavor of Steven Universe--I will have no pity for anyone who takes the flavor as a means to attempt to outguess the moderator.

I added emphasis. Scum has the ability to hurt us for flavor claiming and trying to game the game that way.

The

ONLY

thing that people should claim at this point is negative utility. Anything else is just fucking stupid; plain and simple.

So seriously ... stop fucking fishing for shit people.

~D

what 'people' are you referring to? only one other person mentioned mastin's claim, and while i'm with you on that one, what i wanted was for mastin to make it clear if what she had was negative utility or not. which is what you've just said players should claim here.

[Not Chara]

mastin, what are you basing your reads on? gut?

[Not Chara]

there is... a lot of anger in Drixx.

what you've said about Firebringer indicates scum, but you're still talking directly to them. is Firebringer scum or misguided town, which is it?

[Not Chara]

mastin: if you're a miller, you should at least claim that.

i'm against flavour claims and ability claims, but any negative-utilities should be on the table in plain terms, without hinting at one's flavour role.

Drixx, this was the post. i'm not sure how you misinterpreted my intent from this. i couldn't have been more clear.

[Not Chara]

im confused and tired but il dia htsotfuf monetaityb inmaybe in ab it

if you're progressed to full-on crytyping, i'd suggest a nap.

[Not Chara]

mastin: if you're a miller, you should at least claim that.

i'm against flavour claims and ability claims, but any negative-utilities should be on the table in plain terms, without hinting at one's flavour role.

Drixx, this was the post. i'm not sure how you misinterpreted my intent from this. i couldn't have been more clear.

Thank you for going way out of your way to make it really clear you weren't asking Mastin to claim more ... by quoting yourself telling mastin specifically to claim whether miller or not and also telling mastin to claim neg utility in plain terms.

The question is should I give you the benefit of the doubt or not?

You see: Steven Universe and Steven Universe Prequel and pretty much all of the Varsoon games based upon actual shows/games have strong flavor reasons for the abilities and roles people are assigned. So asking Mastin to explain her negative role utility "in plain terms" actually

IS

fishing for flavor in a Varsoon game. It's really enough that she told us there's neg utility with her role and it's probably too much that she made such a big deal about wanting to say more.

'way out of my way'? i quoted a single recent post.
this is a language/terminology disagreement, and i've had enough of those.

from the games i've read, i had the understanding that claiming negative utility meant claiming what you were. if you were a miller for example, you would say so, to tell anyone thinking about it that investigating you would be useless. claiming a vague negative utility seems to have no actual benefit. except for when one claims later, to say 'see, i already told you i was negative utility'. what am i misunderstanding?

and, i don't see how you can call it fishing with intent for such when you felt you had to explain to me

why

it was fishing.

[Not Chara]

if you're town, your ally claiming their role/flavour to you can only be helpful, Almost50. mind telling me why you feel so strongly about this?

Because:

1- Scum have been provided with GOOD fake claims already. It's in the rules. I don't want to end up town reading my ally and spelling my guts to them when they're in fact SCUM.

2- They'd expect me to do teh same, which -again- I don't want to do in case I', reading them wrong.

Ask Cerb. He'll tell you what happened in the last VARSOON game we played, where KC totally fooled me, Nahdia fooled both Cerb & ABR, and we ended up massacred by the scum team for having wrong reads and sharing secrets with them.

i know why

you

wouldn't want to claim to your partner, but asking them not to claim to you is what is strange to me. it isn't as though you're forced to claim because they have. would your ally claiming to you really make you trust them that much? (especially when town should be afraid of scum knowing their role)

[Not Chara]

Rational: i don't like this response. to Firebringer, it's "mastin has called you scum, and she is a good scumhunter" but when it's about you, it's "you're not that good at reading me".

and 'stop being silly'? this feels like an attempt to win over mastin. no paranoia at all?

and you're saying you shouldn't have been expected to comment on every read mastin makes, but you didn't mention me at all, despite that being the main crux of mastin's point.

[Not Chara]

that seems like... a very powerful ability that was just wasted.

also, 354. what does this mean?

[Not Chara]

360: i see, i suppose that makes sense.

i asked to ally with you because i thought you'd be interesting/wordy, based on your play in the first game. i didn't want to ally with a low-content poster. and, at the time, there were few players besides grapes i found myself interested in sharing a topic with. i also wanted to keep my options open in case grapes said no/started looking like mafia.

[Not Chara]

oh, and also. you'd just given a list of players you would ally with, which made me curious.

[Not Chara]

i don't think i'm allowed to give my full reasoning on grapes. they did seem town here.

i asked the way i did because i wanted to see how you would answer. your list was obviously based on what you knew of these players beforehand. if i'd asked directly, i'm sure you would have told me about your personal experience with those players... which, unfortunately, i'm not very interested in. but, this is all in hindsight. i can't tell you exactly what i was thinking at the time, i just saw the post and asked the question as it occurred to me. :>

[Not Chara]

365 is all the answer i had.
i could add one more, and that is i ooze self-interest, and wanted your opinion of me.

[Not Chara]

speaking of, has this line of questioning told you anything of note?

[Not Chara]

how much substance could one even have when talking about a short question? and how did you get not a single bit of information after those questions? you even said it wasn't playstyle indicative, even though i'd noted my preference for both high-content posters and an ally i thought was town. (you, as an example, were looking to ally with players to 'sort' them, and i imagine others are as well) that isn't information?

OBK: i don't have very many, besides Firebringer and grapes being town. McMenno is strange, and Rational was a townread that has lapsed into something closer to null. i'd have to look back at their posts for why i noted down those reads, but i'm tired and i don't want to do work right now.

[Not Chara]

...OWK. i don't know how that happened. goodnight everyone.

[Not Chara]

454 on McMenno.
why did you point McMenno out there specifically? is it because i used vague language, or are you interested in the player himself?

first few posts are just... strange, that's the only way i can think of to describe them. 47 for one, and the lack of reading that there is not voting this phase. just trolling and asking for alliances, the latter of which is fine, while the former is annoying. but i don't get the town-vibe from McMenno that i have with Firebringer.
not really a scumread, just a lot of posting i don't understand. like is he here for shits and giggles, or is he hunting? looking at his iso, 400 seems to indicate he's putting together reads of some sort...?

[Not Chara]

Fire, you stole my ewwwww. I am going to really have to shit post now. Maybe talk like a pirate.

Top o the morning matey.

Firebringer stole your 'ew' at your own post?

[Not Chara]

Fire, you stole my ewwwww. I am going to really have to shit post now. Maybe talk like a pirate.

Top o the morning matey.

Firebringer stole your 'ew' at your own post?

Ewwwwwwww is generally what I say at posts that feel off to me. Been saying it for awhile.

Can you answer 454?

oh, so he stole your line.
and, i imagine you've seen it now, but i did.

[Not Chara]

this mcmenno fellow is a strange one for sure

461 feels a little off to me, not sure what I think of chara currently

elaborate.

[Not Chara]

what do you think about him? i've read all i can and haven't reached an answer to my question to myself in 461.

a lot of players seemed to have missed that, and it seems on this site in general there is always a small group that either doesn't read or misunderstands the mod's rules. so i suppose, by itself, McMenno isn't strange for doing it. it just adds to the 'don't care' attitude he's been displaying thus far, which is why i can't really pin him down.

[Not Chara]

very wishy-washy

so do you believe your posting so far warrants a concrete town/scum read?

[Not Chara]

McMenno: i don't find it alignment indicative as it stands. i just don't understand not reading post 2.
when you say fault you, do you mean in a 'calling you scum for it' sense or a general sense?

OWK: we're using different definitions of strange. strange to mean 'i don't understand why you're doing this' is how i'm using it.
as for players i'd want to sort... i haven't really been thinking about it. Rational could be there, along with McMenno and SirCakez. but maybe i'm misunderstanding the question. anyone i don't have a read on is a player i'd like to sort, and i don't have a read on most of them.

[Not Chara]

mcmenno, what do you think of me?

I can't read you

interpret that sentence as you wish

why didn't you answer my questions in 486 and 475?

[Not Chara]

randomidget, who is Chansa?

[Not Chara]

I am just going to stop posting till day starts.
I know who I am voting for when it opens, and me and Shiro going to wreck shit.

you also said you weren't going to scumhunt in the prequel.

:>

[Not Chara]

@SC, Explain that McMenno scumread and the NC townread please SC.

You do also realize by immediately hopping in and chainsawing me you've all but absolved RR from answering the question about who they would vote now?

McMenno scumread for fishing and awkward as hell reactions when being called out for it
NC townread for posts that look like blatant newbtown (i;e any of it's posts on the first 5 pages)

what does 'newbtown' look like? am i doing something wrong?
and, if not, could you elaborate on what you mean by that and how it's different from regular town/scum?

[Not Chara]

Newbtown = someone new to mafia who is making posts that look like thoughts town would make the first time they play mafia
For example you usually see lots of apologizing for little things, analysis over game mechanics, openly discussing reads very early on, etc
It's like how I played in my first forum mafia game where I was town

i know the definition, i was asking how it applied to me. still, thank you for the information.

[Not Chara]

You freaking said "lone scum" when talking about another player and a hypothetical alliance with a hydra. It looks like a legit slip. What is there to explain? The whole explanation made no sense.

Did you miss the part where the alliance isn't hypothetical and the hydra is us?
And "lone scum" was a hypothetical, we're explaining why we don't think that is the case here

Where's the supposed slip?

i was waiting for Rational to answer this, but i haven't seen them.

i don't understand the problem here. kraska is townreading McMenno (i don't agree with the read, but that isn't the point) because he wanted to ally with them, a hydra. and the hypothetical scum McMenno would have a more difficult (supposedly) time convincing two town players, than he would just one.
i saw another player question that reasoning for the townread, which is fine, but i have no clue where Rational got this being a scum slip from.

[Not Chara]

...i don't agree with it either. but Rational didn't have a problem with a reasoning, they seemed to not understand what kraska was even saying, and was viewing it as a slip.

[Not Chara]

I'm looking for volunteers to ally with me.

There is chocolate.

my only weakness. but alas, i'm tied to the healthy snack instead.

[Not Chara]

...i don't agree with it either. but Rational didn't have a problem with a reasoning, they seemed to not understand what kraska was even saying, and was viewing it as a slip.

This is still Ewwww. The focus was more on the fact they referred to McMenno as lone scum, and there's no reason to believe that any town player should be looking for solo scum.

i... now don't understand this.
'lone scum' refers to a hypothetical scum player who isn't in a hydra... what does that have to do with hunting?

[Not Chara]

but what else would it mean? why wouldn't town be looking for scum?

pedit: oh. 'lone scum' refers to a Serial Killer.
that's just confusing.

[Not Chara]

sure, that's easy.

town: CoolDoG, farside, Firebringer, grapes, kraska, randomidget
null: OWK, mastin, McMenno, Skybird, SirCakez
scum: Rational, Almost50, Creature

anyone not mentioned, i don't have a read on. players in the null category are those i can't make up my mind about.

[Not Chara]

oh, Klingon goes in town as well.

[Not Chara]

there are 26 pages. even subtracting the fluff and trolling, and taking into account the lack of voting... there is plenty of material for reads.

why is grapes not very towny to you, and why is Rational not scum to you?

[Not Chara]

sorry, i must have forgotten you'd asked me a question. why are you aggressively capitalizing words at me?
to follow, why are you explaining things to me that i did not ask? this response is very... charged, and i don't know where it's coming from.
i'll answer in a second.

[Not Chara]

...i retract my apology, the question you were referring to was in 641, and it was for everyone. unless i'm really missing something, but i don't believe i am.
this reaction is looking even more strange to me. and that, OBK, is the scum strange, not any other sense of the word. :>

you seem to be incredulous (or taking offense?) at how many players have readslists out... have you not considered that there's plenty of alignment indicative content to be found? and if you disagree, that's your opinion... but it isn't really my problem.
and, what do you hope to gain by attacking, as you say, the majority? what are you trying to imply by bringing up mastin's read on me? (one she shouldn't have, if this phase is so lacking in content)

[Not Chara]

the above was directed at Almost50, if that wasn't clear.

[Not Chara]

Killthestory's avatar is terrifying. i love it.

[Not Chara]

Updated list.

MAKE SURE BOTH OF YOU SUBMIT YOUR ALLIANCE REQUESTS!

Alliances:
grapes/chara
fire/shiro
obi/rr
skybird/foxbird
cakes/a50
yume/farside
randomidget/Creature
CooLDoG/Seraphim
McMenno/kraskaesque
DrippingGoofball/Klingoncelt (pending)

Unaligned:
SnarkySnowman
Xkfyu
killthestory
TheWayItEnds

here's the list Klingoncelt made.

[Not Chara]

i know the definition, i was asking how it applied to me. still, thank you for the information.

why do you care how it applies to you? You seem to be quite defensive about what people perceive you as, this reads as scummy to me. Also, don't know how the site deals with alts, but alt much? I don't think varsoon would let a newbie into such a complex game.

i asked because i took the descriptor 'newbtown' to mean i might be playing in a naive/subpar way, so i wanted clarification.
i spoke to Varsoon before signups opened, and cited my experience with irl mafia and other games similar to this one. i was told that all players are welcome in his games.

i'm available for quite a while now. let me know if there are questions from pregame/earlier today that i've missed. my memory can be very bad. this excludes Almost50, who i am aware of.

[Not Chara]

The blind leading the blinder.

I warned you. You just went on my PL list for this game. Be an unwarranted asshole again and see what happens.

~D

are you referring to how you said you would respond in kind to players being rude/insulting to others?

[Not Chara]

I don't see any 180 on me.

They townread you at the start based on their interactions with you. Yet, with no interaction with you, you became a scumread.

i was never townreading Creature. what are you talking about?

[Not Chara]

OBK: why didn't you answer my question?

between those, i pick Rational. but it's barely been a day and i'd like to read first.
which do you pick? including me.

[Not Chara]

yes, i know you 'answered' it. the post i quoted was the last thing you said about me to Creature. now where did i say i was townreading Creature? quote it.

[Not Chara]

so, you made an assumption that my acting civil and friendly to a player has anything to do with my read on them, then proceeded to call that a 180 on my read?

and you didn't even quote the only ammunition you might have had on this point, which is the post where i say i agree somewhat with Creature's view that hunting is harder without votes to look at. still has nothing to do with my read, but i might have actually seen where you're coming from with that.
here, all i see is someone looking for something to attack. even Creature thought you were full of it as you tried to convince him, and he was the one i was scumreading. :>

VOTE: Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Not Chara]

does Titus really do this as town? is that why they claimed to be oft-scumread?

also, do you happen have a non-meta reason for why they could be town here? i dislike looking through past games if i can help it.

[Not Chara]

Now, I have the reaction I was looking for.

NC had the two players who were possibly scum wagoned together. NC if scum, most likely is scum with RR or Creature due to the rule of 3. (Namely if a scumfuck gives a reads list where there's multiple scum, more likely than not there's a buddy). By having Creature and RR as the options, I could see if NC would bus or not. By approaching this from that angle, NC clearly didn't believe in their scumread allegedly on Creature or RR.

NC has had irregular interactions with RR that have been documented by other people. Yet, she suddenly it's not wanting to rope them.

NC's reactions have been like this all game.

VOTE: NC

love the timing of this, as i'm in the middle of looking back on why Rational is scum. still, OWK is much worse.

this is very weak. did you ask for my gut reads list specifically to make this kind of attack? was the ridiculous assertion that i made a 180 flip on my read on Creature also part of this?

Spoiler: unrelated to game

my pronouns are it/its or they/them.

[Not Chara]

okay, Almost50.

on grapes: looking back, there isn't that much material for grapes as town in the recent game. most of it isn't stuff i find terribly alignment indicative. i may have been taking grapes for granted for reasons. i still think they're town, because of the back and forth with kraska and the reads that i can see coherent reasoning for. but grapes isn't my focus today, as we're allied and i will hopefully be speaking at length with them there.

on Rational: nearly all of Drixx's posting is material i can't follow from a town perspective. 567 and the previous conversation surrounding that 'slip' is one of them. Cerb's defense of Drixx's actions (383) also rubs me the wrong way. yes, i'm aware that mastin asked for Cerb's opinion here. in 379, Cerb expresses their displeasure with my answers: "was hoping for more" but still calls it all lacking in any alignment information, at all. that, and the whole line of questioning was based on a small question i asked about whether Rational would ally with me. what information was Cerb looking for anyway?
340

does

make me eager to see what Drixx has to say about Titus. (see the line about assuming) also, i don't believe the post they quoted was me making an assumption... it was my opinion, which i gave reasons for. i fully expected a response, but the "stop assuming shit" line in particular seems like an overreaction.
there are a few other things here that i'm skipping because i've spoken about them before. i also just noticed that they never responded to my 325.

Creature was a gut read, but there were probably some posts i could go look for specifically that influenced it. my mind has changed somewhat after his interaction with Titus. i'll wait and see how he plays as the game continues.

[Not Chara]

so, you made an assumption that my acting civil and friendly to a player has anything to do with my read on them, then proceeded to call that a 180 on my read?

and you didn't even quote the only ammunition you might have had on this point, which is the post where i say i agree somewhat with Creature's view that hunting is harder without votes to look at. still has nothing to do with my read, but i might have actually seen where you're coming from with that.
here, all i see is someone looking for something to attack. even Creature thought you were full of it as you tried to convince him, and he was the one i was scumreading. :>

VOTE: Obi-Wan Kenobi

This is caught for wrong reasons. Your case is fine but you didn't quote the best evidence, so I'm going to rebel over here.

i... what? are you saying there are

better

reasons that you're scum?

[Not Chara]

amendment to 894. it should read "there isn't that much material for grapes as town in the early posts of the game."

[Not Chara]

OK, so Mastina AND Titus are pushing Not Chara. I guess this is the best sheep I could ever commit to in this game!

VOTE: Not Chara

Of course this could be called opportunistic, and could also be labelled OMGUS, so would be perfect to comply with beeboy's request to "do more things". Switch off the main lights please and put me on the focus of the spotlights for a while!

i was under the impression that sheeping is lazy and scummy. does publically stating that you're sheeping erase that somehow? (this is referencing both Yume and Almost50, though Almost50 seems committed to highlighting everything scummy about this by calling himself out before anyone else can)

Firebringer, Snarky, since you're both not into it: who is scum on my wagon, and who is just lazy?

Also, if Firebringer could answer about Titus. i really like Obi-Wan is so scummy that Rational can be left alone for the moment.

edit: could you please explain why this is town? i don't understand it.

[Not Chara]

so, you made an assumption that my acting civil and friendly to a player has anything to do with my read on them, then proceeded to call that a 180 on my read?

and you didn't even quote the only ammunition you might have had on this point, which is the post where i say i agree somewhat with Creature's view that hunting is harder without votes to look at. still has nothing to do with my read, but i might have actually seen where you're coming from with that.
here, all i see is someone looking for something to attack. even Creature thought you were full of it as you tried to convince him, and he was the one i was scumreading. :>

VOTE: Obi-Wan Kenobi

This is caught for wrong reasons. Your case is fine but you didn't quote the best evidence, so I'm going to rebel over here.

i... what? are you saying there are

better

reasons that you're scum?

No. You're whining that I didn't use the best post (you refer to it as the only ammunition) to make my case that you 180ed your read. You're basically stating that my case is fine but I didn't use the best evidence so you'd OMGUS me instead.

Even in your next post, you follow up with my comment being "weak" rather than "scummy" because you've been more concerned with how you're perceived than finding scum.

no, i'm saying your case is terrible, but if you'd used the post i was talking about, i could see reasoning for town to think i was townreading Creature.

you've also got things backwards. i voted you, and you finally felt safe enough and voted me back. your vote was on Creature, while you were saying that out of Creature, Rational, and myself, you would vote me. it was also on Creature while 804 and the relevant conversation was happening.

[Not Chara]

OK, so Mastina AND Titus are pushing Not Chara. I guess this is the best sheep I could ever commit to in this game!

VOTE: Not Chara

Of course this could be called opportunistic, and could also be labelled OMGUS, so would be perfect to comply with beeboy's request to "do more things". Switch off the main lights please and put me on the focus of the spotlights for a while!

i was under the impression that sheeping is lazy and scummy. does publically stating that you're sheeping erase that somehow? (this is referencing both Yume and Almost50, though Almost50 seems committed to highlighting everything scummy about this by calling himself out before anyone else can)

Firebringer, Snarky, since you're both not into it: who is scum on my wagon, and who is just lazy?

Also, if Firebringer could answer about Titus. i really like Obi-Wan is so scummy that Rational can be left alone for the moment.

edit: could you please explain why this is town? i don't understand it.

Sheeping is player and situationally dependent. No tool is scummy or townie, just some players favor certain tools more than others. As a general matter, scum tend to sheep but not always.

Good to know that you're afraid to sheep.

Almost50 pressuring you for a response to his question, which you still haven't answered, is pretty telling. Scum can throw absent questions to everyone and not care when they are ignored. Town follow through, town have plans that eventually reveal themselves. The fact you OMGUSed Almost immediately after he pushed you and did the same thing to me is pretty revealing.

i have answered it.
Almost50 is still scummy for their aggressive response to me asking a question in response to theirs. i apologized at first because i believed they'd asked me a question that i hadn't seen/remembered... but no, their aggressive reaction was because i saw their question about Rational and grapes and wanted to know why they were opposed to the thread's opinions on them.

sheeping: so... sheeping isn't alignment indicative, except scum tend to do it? alright. and, fantastic assumption about me with the bolded. so should i expect you to continue to assume scummy things about the players you're trying to mislynch for the rest of the game?

[Not Chara]

you didn't respond to my post, OWK.

[Not Chara]

you didn't respond to my post, OWK.

You post was just a leading snarl.

Asking me whether I intend to smear people I hypothetically plan on mislynching isn't a question that needs a response. I've also been told under no uncertain terms that arguing with scum gives them a chance to appear town.

If you have a question based on reads, I'll answer it.

hm, yes. that was the only thing in my post.

there was no correction on the question of Almost50's i supposedly hadn't answered, and no mention of your inconsistency regarding sheeping. you also aren't scum.

:>

[Not Chara]

Seraphim: i haven't seen anything very alignment indicative from TheWayItEnds. what makes him your strongest scumread, over the other players?

edit: i don't believe they are, Cakez. mastin hasn't said anything about it. they just said that mastin is confirmed town.

[Not Chara]

SirCakez, who are are you addressing in 950?

[Not Chara]

farside: i understand why you went from OWK to Snarky, but why have you voted Sera now?

do you still think OWK is mafia?

pedit: okay. mastin seems to be a popular townread, is it the Yume read you want looked at? or both?

Bee: what are the easier pushes a hypothetical scum Snarky would be more likely to go after?

[Not Chara]

Actually farside, I'm trying to change the perception of me "not doing things" in mafia games :/

sure. but if you believe farside is scum, why are you telling her this?

[Not Chara]

oh, and those saying they would vote Sera, or are voting him: why is he scummy?

[Not Chara]

Seraphim: "Furthermore, I have given scum measures to punish players who are attempting to flavor-game the setup. Claim flavor at your own risk."

[Not Chara]

WHy are we lynching the lurker d1? does not compute

You might apply the term lurking to Not Chara, but it is certainly not the traditional type. More like active. Because Not Chara? Has the

third-highest

post count in the game.
Kinda hard to call that traditional lurking.

CoolDog wasn't talking about me.

i'm curious as to how you could call me an active lurker.

[Not Chara]

and i can see the reasoning for scum Seraphim, i suppose, but i still wonder why he deserves more focus than OWK or Almost50. but, mostly OWK.

is beeboy still here? i want them to answer my question.

[Not Chara]

Xkfyu: do you have anything worthwhile to say about the game? reads?

[Not Chara]

Wow

When someone whiteknights you but leaves you as null

This was a fuckup on my part. I forgot about the posts you made that I liked on pg 32.
So you can be nulltown.

Snarky OMGUSing me is ROFL

you already had Creature is nulltown in your last readslist. i think he was talking about when you said, in response to Creature votes, that Creature is "perfect null".

[Not Chara]

Almost50: i didn't notice Creature hinting at being the lie detector anywhere.

[Not Chara]

If any of my townreads are down. Would like a new ally.

please respond to me instead of deriding me here, thank you.

for the record, i would like to ally with mastin next round. of course, she has said she doesn't want to ally with anyone, and considering her read on me asking would be kind of laughable.

so, farside, what about you?

[Not Chara]

please respond to me instead of deriding me here, thank you.

No no let's talk about your obi read here.

then respond to me coherently here. i'm not going to repeat myself when what i said in the hood was already a repeat lf what i said here.

[Not Chara]

you're avoiding saying anything about OWK that isn't 'gut' or 'meta', again.

you expressed your displeasure with my answering Almost50's question with a question. and now you've done it twice within an hour.

i want your thought processes and i want your reasoning.

and i want to talk abour OWK because

they're scum i would like to see lynched

.

[Not Chara]

yes, they do. you should vote Obi.

could you talk about why SirCakez is scum to you? i don't see it.

[Not Chara]

It feels like Cakez is playing like he did as scum in TTH.

meta reads are not very useful to me, especially without specifics or quotes.

my intention isn't to insult, but this has as much bearing as just saying you have a gut read.

Obi: your case on me is badly done and built on the flimsy 'oddness' you mentioned with respect to McMenno and Rational in the pregame.
defending it with 'i've had it for a while' doesn't make it sound better, it just shows that you're not actually examining me, only looking for things you believe you can attack.

[Not Chara]

Farside is pretty pissed I scum read her huh. And very much in the way of "what the shit everyone townread me you caught me for nonsense reasons"

i don't really agree with your reasons either. you're sayjng farside is scum who is angry about being caught for bad reasons?
are your reasons bad? why should we be listening to you?

[Not Chara]

farside: fine. i still think OWK is scum, and i'm going to need actual reasons for them as town to be playing like this before i think to reconsider. after all my asking, i haven't received any, ao i'm highly doubtful.

Almost50 i would like to speak too more. i thought he was looking a bit better more recently, or i was possibly just feeling better about him, but all of the talk about the lie detector isn't useful. it doesn't help that he claims to have very few reads.

i think Creature is town.
Rational and grapes are the players i want to be looked at most, now.

grapes: this doesn't mean i don't want a response from you.

[Not Chara]

Farside is pretty pissed I scum read her huh. And very much in the way of "what the shit everyone townread me you caught me for nonsense reasons"

i don't really agree with your reasons either. you're sayjng farside is scum who is angry about being caught for bad reasons?
are your reasons bad? why should we be listening to you?

Nah but I can be totally honest, my reasons for the initial vote were not exactly lynchworthy by any means. And at first reaction it seemed like town frustration because it was dumb but the tunneling is making me think otherwise. And pretty confidently, too.

farside isn't tunneling you. she's scumreading you because your reasons were bad. she's scumreading players besides you.
and you admit they weren't great.

what you're doing is closer to tunneling than what farside is. i don't think you're making sense. and i would also like to know your other reads.

on Seraphim: i wish he had more than a handful of posts. i'd like him to explain more before i get a rid on him. i don't think he's the best choice for a wagon, either.

[Not Chara]

grapes: what is towny about calling your scumreads town without substance? mafia can call town players town. it's actually a requirement.

also: "all of their scumreads would have to flip town to make the argument that they're easy lynches to make"?

[Not Chara]

i thought Creature was scum for gut reasons early on. however, today he has been moving towards town, because of how he responded to OWK when addressed by them, and the commentary on their readslist. (which is comprised of easy-to-push players, yes) i wouldn't consider myself easy to push, but i am the newest and i could see myself being viewed as mislynch material.

i waxed a bit long winded in the hood with regards to experience levels, meta, and what i believe is bias, but i'm not sure if grapes read it.

back to Creature: i wish he would do more analysis, and my townread isn't concrete, but i would not want to lynch him.

grapes: you said beeboy's reads that lacked substance but resonated with you were towny. i want to know why that is.

[Not Chara]

farside: i probably will not understand this until i've seen mafia titus.
why doesn't she get lynched when she plays coherently? in games where she's mafia.
also: is she aware she'll be townread for acting as you say?

and on what you said about scum: that makes sense to me. but, i know you're saying it because you townread OWK. unless i misintepreted something.

[Not Chara]

that... doesn't make me want to trust your read on her. not to offend. you've never correctly town read her? and have less than a 1/3 chance of reading her correctly?
i'm pretty sure i had a question for beeboy that was not answered.

i could be convinced onto a Snarky wagon depending on how he answers, but i don't think i will be happy about it.

i could wagon grapes. will join the Rational wagon in good cheer if i don't see anything else i like/no one will follow me on OWK. though i've already given up there for today, so.

grapes: are you still townreading Snarky?

[Not Chara]

Why not, farside?

Why not xfy or random.
That's the point.
Twie is the one you picked so I'm asking why him over others.

Gut mostly. If I were to try and qualify that statement, out of the lurkers his show the greatest disengagement from the game. When I was working to catch up, I knew that there was no way all of the scum were in the active players list. I didn't have any particularly strong scumreads, just a lot of conflicting personalities and drama in which it was too soon to call who was scum or not. And a lot of shitposting. So I decided to go through some of the lurker isos and see if I could catch something. I tend to do better when there's less information to compute as there is less possibility of read dilution. TWIE stood out as "drive-by" lurking and it seemed like a good place to start until so more stuff happened.

well, more stuff has happened. what do you have to say about the rest of this game? you said yourself that TWIE is a very, very small fraction of it.

[Not Chara]

Not Chara is obvscum.

is this the forum equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears when i address you? :>

[Not Chara]

please respond to me instead of deriding me here, thank you.

No no let's talk about your obi read here.

still waiting on this.

[Not Chara]

oh.

8/10 is a lot better obviously.

i have more to say but would like to check something first.

[Not Chara]

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

[Not Chara]

I wanted to pressure TWIE almost more than I scumread them. If that makes sense. See if I could beetlejuice them into the thread.

Why didnt you just say so?

because voting a player and saying it was 'for pressure' is useless.

i think Sera is town.

hello, TWIE, nice to see you. do you have thoughts?

[Not Chara]

you and grapes are not obvious town. Almost50 could be town but it is not obvious. at the moment he isn't even really scumhunting.

i have not been inconsistent, you are pulling at imaginary straws.
and i don't even know of it's possible to be opportunistic right now except on the wagon on

me

.

:>

[Not Chara]

yes grapes. that is the only reason i voted you. very good job, you've solved the case.

i'm probably the only one having a chuckle at the use of the word

assumption

here.
grapes ignoring everything about OWK again? yes, very much so.

why was that vote post the straw that broke the camel's back? you were already so sure i was scum you'd stopped speaking to me.

also could you please avoid referring to he/him when you're frustrated. but that's irrelevant to the game.

pedit: i didn't bring it out until i thought grapes was scum. there is no need to talk about the role of a player i think could be town. :>

[Not Chara]

foot in mouth syndrome...?

[Not Chara]

no. no no no. i will not ally with grapes again. this just makes me want you lynched more. but thank you for fixing pronouns.

OWK: i know how to google. that wasn't a question asking what the term meant.

good reaction test. you waited about fifteen minutes before explaining it was a reaction test. and, you originally said i revealed it so my scumbuddies would know not to ally with you.

[Not Chara]

Not Chara, you need a break from this game like 10 pages ago.
Step back, you sound crazy.

:<

fine. even those townreading me think i'm up the wall. i'll be back later.

[Not Chara]

Maybe you need to take a look deeper into your heart and realise that being weird isn't equivalent to being scum.

...am i weird?

[Not Chara]

ok, i'm back. and calm, i think.

i reread our hood, and grapes is still scum. my read progressed mostly because of our interactions within the hood. or, lack thereof.
i still think OWK is scum, but being told at every turn that this is normal for them has worn me down.

pedit:

Spoiler: unrelated to game, please read anyway

i use it/its. if you don't like those, they/them is also acceptable. not she/her, not he/him. thank you. it's fine to make mistakes, but please make an effort.

[Not Chara]

i did not say Almost50 is not scumhunting. i said he is not scumhunting at this time. his recent posts are about the lie detector or Yume in relation to roles. Almost50 could be town, but not obvious town. his more recent posts did make me feel better about him, but i want him to scumhunt more and talk about setup/roles less.
i have not repeatedly thrown dirt on Almost50. you are again inflating things.

Creature wasn't really a scumread at the time i voted you. because of his interactions with you when you spoke to him, i was reconsidering. Rational wasn't even present.

"Grapes hasn't investigated or attempted to sort reads with anyone this game, but rather to push an agenda based on OMGUS and salt."
hey, this is true. yes, grapes is scum. thank you. :>
i waited until i thought grapes was scum to announce their ability. also, i voted grapes, then grapes voted me. please recheck your timeline.
you mention Shiro as my first scumread. that was obviously a joke about Steven Universe vs Adventure Time.
i never said everyone should flavour claim to their neighbours. literally, never. i said 'if you're town, why wouldn't you want your alliance partner to claim to you?'. i did not say anything about advocating claiming to your alliance partner.

there's more but i'm tired. what is this post?

[Not Chara]

you seem to do a lot of wagon analysis. i don't.

i wasn't interested in pursuing Creature at the time, and Rational was not present. more pressing to

me

was your ludicrous claims, which you continue to make here. half of this post is outright false and the other half is assumptions about what you believe a certain breed of town player would do that i failed to.

still, i'm glad for the full case. it sheds some light on what you've been thinking. i apologize if this is insulting, but you seem to have trouble getting the intent from posts. an example is you believing i had a scumread on Shiro, and you believing i had a townread on Creature. and if there is anything in the world that could change my read on you, it would be you making good on being "fully open to reasons and discussion here".

pedit: i thought there was something strange about that line. oh well.

[Not Chara]

i voted grapes before they made that post. hence the pedit. the ha was in response to 1187.

and still, grapes didn't actually vote until i did. they just said they might after looking at Cerb. that isn't me 'voting grapes after they voted me'.
please respond to the other problems with your post as well.

[Not Chara]

i never said grapes OMGUSed me. i was just saying that i did not OMGUS them. you're putting words in my mouth again, please stop.

you didn't address the other issues i talked about in 1289. the lack of Shiro scumread. you assuming i was townreading Creature. everything regarding Almost50. that i stated "that everyone should flavor claim to their neighbours". these are all false.

grapes was scumreading me before our hood, and during it. i was aware of this. i was townleaning them until we started to speak in our hood, when i realized they were not actually trying to sort me.

[Not Chara]

Do I have to come in here to tell people to walk away from the thread so we can actually get productive?
Cause I am kind of done with Titus tunneling at this point.

i can talk about multiple things. what do you want to talk about?

[Not Chara]

"grapes hasn't investigated or attempted to sort reads with anyone this game" is what i was agreeing with.
also "hey, this is true. yes, grapes is scum. thank you. :>" was partially sarcasm. the thank you part.

[Not Chara]

i never said grapes OMGUSed me. i was just saying that i did not OMGUS them. you're putting words in my mouth again, please stop.

you didn't address the other issues i talked about in 1289. the lack of Shiro scumread. you assuming i was townreading Creature. everything regarding Almost50. that i stated "that everyone should flavor claim to their neighbours". these are all false.

grapes was scumreading me before our hood, and during it. i was aware of this. i was townleaning them until we started to speak in our hood, when i realized they were not actually trying to sort me.

Yeah, you claiming your reads aren't what you literally said isn't something I need to correct anytime soon.

you are daft.

after your case i thought i might be able to talk with you. you're impossible and i give up. you're scum or just acting the fool. i did not "literally" say Creature was town, ever. you assumed. i "did" say Shiro was mafia. as a joke. about

Adventure Time

.
and i plain did not say "everyone should flavor claim to their neighbours" as you claim i did.

that's the last i will say to you.

[Not Chara]

Mountain = molehill.

That's my take away from all I just read.
4 votes with 25 players is not a huge thing.

you're voting Cakez now, right? is there a case in your ISO i could go over?

[Not Chara]

Grapes isn't always hugely active and participating. Reading up atm

what do you mean?

[Not Chara]

farside: i'll reread him, then. early game did not feel right, but i thought his later commentary was fine.

CoolDog: i don't know if you're caught up. but i think this was said before anyway, grapes and i are in an alliance currently. also, you should vote them. the two are related.
what do you mean i could be cleared?

unrelated, but both of you please check my signature when you read this. farside, i've said this to you specifically before. granted, it was in a spoiler.

pedit: i don't think mastin said she could use her role a second time. i don't know where you're getting this.
hello, Yume. do you have any reads?

[Not Chara]

farside: i'm sorry you feel that way. please use they/them then, thank you. i am not a girl.
i've thought about it, and am less uncomfortable with being 'odd' than i felt previously.

and, are we still on for tomorrow's alliance?

Yume. do you have any reads on the 23 other players who are not me, you, or mastin.
someone being town does not make them correct. but even ignoring that, you should still have some original thoughts.

KILL CHARA

i'm not being sarcastic. i genuinely love this post and i believe i finally understand why firebringer wanted to be called scum.

[Not Chara]

i have no idea if you're referencing a post restriction or not. i wouldn't know what to do in the former situation, so i'll assume it's the latter for now.

list players and town or scum? don't talk about yourself? ...read the thread and come up with an opinion?
okay. i give up. i don't understand what you mean at all in the first place. sorry.

McMenno: do you have useful things to say.

[Not Chara]

i give up.

that doesn't mean i'm going anywhere. i'll be here to talk all night. if SirCakez is scum then i'll buy OWK as town. out of my 'buddies', SirCakez is the one most likely to be scum. i don't even know if anyone is townreading him anymore. Rational could also be scum but honestly i'd rather see them investigated, or something. i'd say something snide about OWK at this point but i promised myself i wouldn't interact with them anymore.
i almost want to be lynched just to watch mastin, OWK, and grapes experience some form of online whiplash. for varying reasons, because mastin is town.

for the record, i don't think i'll be lynched today. those who have expressed support have already voted. there might be a few lazy stragglers/lurking scum who might join, but i don't see them reaching a majority. i'll see if i can't continue to put my foot in my mouth for the rest of the day, though.

town i am 95% sure on is Firebringer, farside, Yume, mastin, and Seraphim.
i am 100% certain there is a scum on my wagon. it's probably grapes. it could be grapes and OWK. it is... possibly Almost50, but if both grapes and OWK are scum i would not bet money on it.

VOTE: SirCakez

pedit: oh, fantastic. Cakez changed his read on me after one post while i was typing this. now this will look reactionary. because this game wasn't difficult enough.
Skybird, we aren't having a fight. grapes is scum. i outed that because they're scum and also because grapes was looking to ally with other town players.

[Not Chara]

Spoiler: unrelated to game

i just wanted to thank any players, town or scum, that are using my pronouns in the thread. it's one of the many reasons i will be staying on this site for a long while, i think. especially those who have told other players to use them. if i haven't responded to you before, i am grateful, and this is my response.

[Not Chara]

You don't like Yume's play, tough. But Yume's town, so you're going to have to live with it because Yume's never getting lynched. Ever.

I cried a little inside when I read this.

Me too.

You want to bet scum win this now?

i hope that mastin had to choose Yume, and did not make this choice herself.

because, while i don't want to offend Yume, i just don't find it very helpful to... not really have reads. or, to have reads that she has said she isn't confident in. play like this is really only functioning as giving mastin a double-vote.

pedit: farside, you've said everything i've done is town or NAI. i don't see how those voting me will suddenly start listening to you.

[Not Chara]

You don't like Yume's play, tough. But Yume's town, so you're going to have to live with it because Yume's never getting lynched. Ever.

I cried a little inside when I read this.

Me too.

You want to bet scum win this now?

I mean statistically scum win Large Themes with such a high degree that its laughable
Current win rate for scum on Large Theme for last games I kept track of was 12/14 games.

So based on that trend. Guess who is likely winning this?!?!?!?!

is there somewhere i could find statistics? this is depressing.

[Not Chara]

it's completely fine, farside. :>

By the way: the number of secret weapons I have against the scum in my readslist has increased from one to two.
There's two things they now all have in common.
Admittedly, they're related things.

But they're separate, and it'd be nice to reveal to you all what they are right now, but I need some patience to make sure I'm right in my inclinations right now.

I hate whatever role you have.

yes, this feeling is relatable.

mastin you're town and your strategy is to get players to sheep you and your secret measuring system. this leaves no room for your own error and is infuriating. your confirmed town partner is not a player who someone stubborn and secretive such as yourself should have picked. but i'm

fairly

sure you did not actually pick her.

pedit: farside...

[Not Chara]

Good, we can start with McMenno, he has a history of lurking a lot in scum games.

Sure

Vote: McMenno

Come on scum fire.

Do you think Fire is scum?

For the love of God.
Do you just skim everything I say.

That's a joke.

Places obi on ignore.

Damn you fire.
We need to be on the same page here.
How about shiro

if we lynch a lurker after all of this i will set the thread on fire. i can do that, i have fire salts.
note: not a hint or comment about

anything

, just a joke.

what's wrong with lynching SirCakez or grapes, farside?

pedit: where are all of these McMenno votes even coming from? i suppose they could be scum but... what prompted it.

pedit again: SirCakez, they are hard defending McMenno by calling you scum. is what that post was trying to say.

[Not Chara]

mastin if you're waiting on anything from me, i will dance the scum-hula all over this thread if you'll just reveal something,

anything

, about what you're thinking or how you think. At. All.

pedit: speaking of postgame. i have so many words for postgame. this game has been very informative on all topics and no one has even flipped yet.

[Not Chara]

mastin please just help me bus my partner.

pedit: farside, should i summarize what grapes' apparent 'sorting' of me in our neighbourhood entailed?

[Not Chara]

oh, so that is why you decided to move over, mastin.

[Not Chara]

SirCakez: that's very funny, because i also very much want to ally with mastin for role reasons.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: grapes is scum. i'm not telling them anything about my role. also not worth it, because mastin made it very clear she does not want to risk allying with scum, and in her own words she is 85% sure i'm scum.

fuck. i feel as though things are finally moving in a way i can actually affect, and i don't even think Cakez is scum anymore.

i'm breaking my silence on OWK because i

have

to ask: how is farside still strong town to you when she will, apparently, single-handedly assure my win for the scumteam? do you have such a low opinion of her play? the same low opinion she seems to have of yours? how in the blazes are you two townreading each other, again? i'll probably regret this in some way later.

pedit: yes Cakez, please don't flame. it's both of those things, and also you don't need to.

[Not Chara]

I'm sorry everyone, I have the worst toothache imaginable and will not be doing shit with this game until it stops.

-Cerb

:< sorry to hear that. feel better.

pedit: Cakez, my scumread on grapes has nothing to do with their role. i knew about that aspect of their role as soon as we allied, and kept it hidden until i was very sure they were scum.
my scumread is based

minorly

on something i can't talk about, and mostly on how our interactions within the hood showed that grapes was not interested in sorting me in the least, despite their claims to the contrary.

[Not Chara]

i asked this to farside earlier, and they haven't responded yet. but i'd be very happy to give a play-by-play of our interactions in the hood. paraphrasing, of course.

[Not Chara]

SirCakez: i've talked a lot about what bothers me about grapes in the thread, as well. i've also mentioned our neighbourhood many of those times, but you're the first player to actually seem interested in talking about that.
894 is where i expressed interest in sorting grapes through our hood. you can see my conclusions well enough in the posts mentioning grapes that follow.

i'll give you the summary in a second.

Titus: thank you for the answer.

[Not Chara]

i've submitted my post about my neighbourhood to Varsoon. sorry, Cakez, you'll have to wait until he's cleared it to make sure i didn't break a rule accidentally.

Firebringer: hm, that changes things somewhat. i would really avoid saying anything more about your role, but i might be interested in allying with you in the future.

[Not Chara]

Varsoon got back to me immediately.

grapes and Not Chara neighbourhood:

Spoiler: play-by-play

we say hello. grapes asks for my reads. i give them.
reads at the time were (simplified)
scum: Almost, Rational, and OWK
town: Firebringer, farside, SirCakez, grapes, Snarky
null to nulltown: Creature, Seraphim.

i also asked for grapes opinion on the mastin/Yume masonry, and its validity, and said that mastin might be town but i wouldn't know how to begin reading her. i then asked for grapes' reads.
then i made another post asking grapes why there were players townreading Titus but calling her wrong. and then i added that she wasn't just wrong, but wrong in an underhanded way that i don't understand, referring to what i said about Titus in the main thread. that her read was manufactured and fake.

grapes gave a dismissive question-answer to my Titus question, then asked me three other questions about my townread on them, why i thought my scumreads were scum, and why i wasn't voting Rational. no trace of their opinion for me to see, just plain questions.
i answered about grapes and Rational, said the answers to that were already in the thread, when id stated them earlier, and to the other questions as well.
grapes then says they are not really caught up.
i said alright and asked for questions or commentary for when grapes was caught up. i did not receive either.
ok. i'm getting bored of doing an exact play-by-play. i asked why they had a scumread on Cakez, how i'm supposed to be reading OWK as town, etc. still looking for

any

material from grapes.
grapes only answers about OWK, says they are town by gut and and because of their meta. also states they could say more but don't feel like it.
they then asked me to claim.
i said no, and asked for grapes to directly address my arguments for why OWK is scum, because i felt like i was being dismissed.
grapes asked why i wouldn't claim to them, and answered my request for specifics with a dodge question.
i continued to press for info, and said i wouldn't claim because i didn't trust them.
grapes said that was crap because i had been townreading them. keep in mind i had used key words like 'possibly' when talking about my read on grapes. said they would look at my OWK case again.
i said that a slight townread does not equal trust. and that my current read on them was certainly not getting better from all this. and asked why they would expect me to claim to them. no more because i'm so tired of recounting this, please let me know if you want more.

okay, i'm really getting tired of this. tl;dr: grapes asked a bunch of useless questions, did not engage with me at all, and ignored almost all of my commentary about the game in favour of responding badly to all of my attempts to get

anything

out of them. this is after grapes said they wanted to sort me in the hood. you can see my requests for specific points against my OWK read spilling into the thread.

[Not Chara]

Killthestory: i really hope you aren't actually an innocent child.

[Not Chara]

Killthestory: i really hope you aren't actually an innocent child.

^^^ scum.

players that i would hope could actually be an innocent child: anyone who is not trolling/is actually trying.

[Not Chara]

better yet, if someone is a late-confirmed innocent child, what they should really be trying to do is put themselves out there and see who bites.

[Not Chara]

SirCakez: there's just a bit more that i did not note down, but i didn't misrepresent anything grapes or i posted.

[Not Chara]

my deepest and most humble apologies, goku-sama.

[Not Chara]

so back to the neighbourhood between grapes and i...

[Not Chara]

Not Chara is a demon, not a newb.

grapes is still giving me good material for a signature.

[Not Chara]

"small, forgivable, light inconsistencies", grapes? you're living in a fantasy.

or, pretending to read me as if i know you or Titus.
you should know why i wanted to ally with you early on. it should be

obvious

. and no, i won't answer questions about this.

[Not Chara]

everything they spoke about happened. including me using a bit more than three sentences to talk about OWK, for example.

they refused to see my thought process as anything but scum because it didn't *resonate* with them. no thinking about me or my position.
they even brought up that 'things are the things i would push Titus on' as scum, as if what grapes would do means anything. as if i'm supposed to know that Titus is always this inconsistent and full of assumptions.
the rest of it is just that i gave off 'bad vibes' for being friendly, i guess.
does being overdramatic about the scumminess of the new player you're pushing count as a scumtell? :> (joke)

[Not Chara]

asked about the ability in the neighbourhood, then realized that there was really no other way for it to happen except by it being part of grapes role. after i asked the question i began to worry that grapes might use that point against me after i'd asked about it, so i revealed it in the thread. i don't feel bad about doing it because they wouldn't have revealed it if i hadn't. they were looking for townreads to ally with.

[Not Chara]

688, McMenno.

[Not Chara]

play like this is really only functioning as giving mastin a double-vote.

What's wrong with a double-vote at the hands of a (1) confirmed, (2) capable player? Heck, Skybird has a double-vote already, and nobody's complaining.

that's a false equivalency. there's nothing wrong with mastin 'having a double vote'.
i was talking about Yume not doing anything on her own really, including play outside of her vote. townreads, other scumreads, etc. especially when the opinions of confirmed town are so important.

i'm not here to personally attack Yume, as a note. it isn't as though there aren't other players who haven't really done much.

[Not Chara]

I actually do have opinions of my own, it's just that those opinions align with theirs.

completely?
you should talk about them in the thread.
you said farside could be scum earlier, but mastin doesn't have her in her scumlist. how did that come about, as an example?

[Not Chara]

oh, thank you Cerb. sorry Yume, i must have missed that.

no one is 'strange' right now who wasn't strange before, Titus. but i'm planning on looking at several players independently when i get back from class.
on that list is SirCakez, grapes, Creature, Rational, Almost50, and McMenno. my reads on them vary.

[Not Chara]

still, i would like to see more thoughts from Yume. to contiinue along that train of thought: Cakez is also defending me Yume, and i'm voting him right now. what do you think about that?

[Not Chara]

...what on earth are you talking about?

[Not Chara]

i didn't have time to do the reading i wanted to do today.
good night for now, everyone.

[Not Chara]

what? i didn't misrepresent anything that happened in the hood. i didn't record everything from the end, but i got lazy. if anyone had wanted more, i would have given more.
and if you'd lied about the hood i would have said something, but you didn't. the accounts match but focus on different things.

i've been skimming and rethinking all day, and i've decided just now that i would like to talk about it a bit.
grapes might not be scum. if Cakez is scum, grapes is town. and Cakez called our argument TvT because he knew that's what it was. would also be the reason for his defense of me, when otherwise i'm an incredibly safe wagon for scum to choose.

if Cakez is town, grapes is still the best choice for scum on my wagon. i wanted to reread today to reevaluate these two, but didn't get the chance. i'll do that as soon as i can.

[Not Chara]

Shiro: because it has a similar tone to most of his other posts. that's my opinion.

[Not Chara]

he's one of the players i will be rereading today, Shiro.

[Not Chara]

why are they both worse than me? please explain.

[Not Chara]

@Not Chara:

IF you somehow manage to make it to D3, I would like to be allied with you by then. It'd be nice to get a peek into that head of yours regardless of your alignment. Alternatively; if there's an upcoming game (a large, preferably themed) that you signed up to where you could use a hydra partner I'm game for that too. Just setup the hydra account and give me the password and we're rolling.

Thank you

at this time, i would not want to ally with you in this game. i'll let you know if something changes, but thank you for the offer.
i don't have any upcoming games, but if you see one you'd like to join, i'd be happy to join as well. provided it's not immediately.

how does Almost Chara sound? :> i'm not terribly creative.

[Not Chara]

waiting on the account being activated.

Almost, why are you explaining yourself to one of your top scumreads? in your own words, Shiro and Creature are worse than me.
and apologies if my skimming has caused me to miss the answer, but are you ever going to explain why they're worse?

[Not Chara]

Yume, are you not the only player in the game who is currently privy to mastin's thought process? if that isn't 'in the loop', i don't know what is. :>

[Not Chara]

grapes might not be scum. if Cakez is scum, grapes is town. and Cakez called our argument TvT because he knew that's what it was. would also be the reason for his defense of me, when otherwise i'm an incredibly safe wagon for scum to choose.

grapes is town no matter what, period.
You being town is the only thing in question, HOWEVER, regardless of whether you are or aren't town, SirCakez is definitely scum.

i'm, at the moment, toying with the idea of SirCakez being scum because of his defense of me.
i applied the same thought to farside and am still working through that. however, she does feel more town for reasons i don't have time to explain but would be happy to later.
feel free to believe it's because SirCakez is my partner, because today he is one of the players i am looking through. i could see myself voting him today.

[Not Chara]

Firebringer is tone-reading and his townread of me didn't warrant any examination, in my opinion. he's still very town.

[Not Chara]

It probably is single all, I am guessing 5-6 scum team with possible SK but doubtful

what about a third party with a win condition independent of town and scum? i'm just thinking of examples, i don't want to start guessing what Varsoon might do based on nothing.

i'm treating the game as one with a single scum team until i see evidence to the contrary.

[Not Chara]

An ability in the game has confirmed that Farside22 is NOT in a Masonry with Firebringer.
The Stress has increased by 1, towards 'Tragic Destiny'. The current stress is +1.

i was looking through the votecounts and remembered this.

Varsoon said

generally

, anti-town abilities and events increase the stress.
it's still a waste of an ability. but could it have been from mafia trying to determine if the masronry was real?
there was talk about a town lie detector, and i didn't bother checking to see if there might be a mafia one.

there's new content i will be checking now. but i came across this and thought i should bring it up.

[Not Chara]

Cerb: that does make sense. i have more to wonder about on this subject, but i don't believe it's relevant right now.

[Not Chara]

and Shiro, Titus is correct. you should call your scumread a demon instead. ;>

much

more impact.

[Not Chara]

Like he's the biggest wagon in the biggest wagon in the thread and he only retreats to be undisturbed

now

? He's retreating to lurk out his wagon and get you to do what they want Farside.

Also to be okay with only certain players allowed to lurk is BS.
This is why I'm ignoring you.
Snarky sure as shit didn't defend himself.

Bite me

No one is allowed to lurk. That's insane.

You're ignoring me because I disagree with you.

Snarky isn't lurking.

Yes he is.

Sc has posted way more and to calling lurking is BS.
Just like rr does nothing to defend himself, but that's okay with titus.
Basically your fucking bias.

Volume =\= Active

RR has defended himself. SC ran to your PT and is only coming out now. SC has no content of value, RR does.

i don't understand this. Cakez said he wasn't around yesterday, but has been active otherwise, and none of his posts have really lacked content besides. you can say you disagree with the content, but it is there.
and farside just said that Cakez wasn't avoiding the thread in favour of their hood. why won't you trust her judgement on her own hood partner?
that's what you're asking us to do with you and Rational, after all. i specifically remember you saying Rational was discussing their reads in your hood.

[Not Chara]

farside: actually, i thought Shiro made good points. i don't know Almost50's meta. but i'll iso you both side by side and look again. i mean, really. i don't think Almost50 is playing very well. maybe that's just bad play, but he says he's trying to form conclusions on his own and then compare them to players he considers good scumhunters. but i see a lot of facetiousness in his posting, and i don't think that's conducive to strong play.

Cakez: i haven't had my chance to look at you again, but mastin's account of how Rational is playing matched up to my own thoughts while i was rereading them.

[Not Chara]

i just read up on Snarky. there isn't enough there for me to call it confidently town or scum. the problem is the original reasons for their farside push weren't very strong, but they continued to focus on her. they also said farside was tunneling, when she was not.

Snarky should attempt to catch up soon. i think i had a question for them that hasn't been answered yet because they're not caught up. what i don't get is Titus saying (i believe she's said this twice now) that Snarky has been 'overwhelmed'. i don't see evidence of that, just evidence of not really being caught up. comparing this to a full game with Snarky does not seem useful until they're caught up, as well.

pedit: SirCakez called me nullscum a single time, then called me null and eventually brought me back up to town. have you been reading his posts, OWK?

[Not Chara]

farside: i looked through you and Shiro together.
i haven't checked Snarky's games, because i'm focusing on the Almost50 points right now. i don't see that Shiro is cherry-picking, and i also don't understand your defense of Almost. he responded to Shiro's points with jokes. if he's town, he's making it impossible to understand his thought process or what he's attempting to do, and that's a very anti-town attitude. (i haven't done my reread of Almost yet, this is only from what i remember and what Shiro has brought up. still, i don't think i'm misremembering this.)

OWK: please just admit when you say incorrect things and accept when you make a mistake. i am tearing my hair out. newest example: Cakez's read on me.

[Not Chara]

Before I forget.
Shiro called out a50 because he was trying to lure out a claim with the "lie detector" but maybe she missed it caused a negative side effect.
I doubt she missed that.
Maybe it was scum that triggered that thing.

i was also wondering if it was scum. but i'm pretty sure Almost50 thought the lie detector was town. i would have to check.
(i consider the stress going up to be a positive side effect. anti-town abilities increase stress to decrease swinginess. that was Varsoon's claim. but i think i understand what you mean.)

[Not Chara]

I'll give you a little peek into my thoughts while we're at it (this is a rare incident):

At one point I thought SS was the lie detector. The "event" happened close enough to him catching up, so I thought it to be a good chance he was the one. I immediately moved him from Null to a slight town read (bc I had no way to confirm he IS the LD). Anyway, later on Creature did his stunt and seemed like claiming LD himself, and I'm left with big question marks at best. Is Creature for real?? Why would he do that if he is? Or did he notice what I did and is trying to cover for SS? And if so, what means of communications do they have together that guarantees such a stunt just doesn't backfire?=.

Almost50 said he moved Snarky from a null to a slight town read only because he thought he

might

be the Lie Detector. i would take that to mean that Almost50 was looking for a town lie detector here.

[Not Chara]

i also don't understand your defense of Almost. he responded to Shiro's points with jokes. if he's town, he's making it impossible to understand his thought process or what he's attempting to do,

I did respond to YOU when you presented some of the same arguments, didn't I?

then you should have quoted yourself to Shiro, instead of joking around. as i said, all it does is continue your 'purposely looking scummy' shtick, which is anti-town.

plus, responding to the person you're voting is different from responding to a third party who is noticing the same problems.
note: third party in the normal sense, not the mafia alignment.

[Not Chara]

almost you are really seeming scummy at this point.

And -of course- this is exactly how you would expect SCUM!ALMOST to be acting. Right? I mean, RIGHT???

..?

[Not Chara]

Almost, are you saying there are players meta-reading you incorrectly?

[Not Chara]

Almost, every time you say you are 'obvtown', i hear 'i know my own scum meta and am acting differently from it'. the fact that you know this means you could replicate it... that defense is meaningless.

[Not Chara]

will be (hopefully) around for the next few hours.

i'd still like to ally with mastin. i'm aware she has a 99% chance of saying no, but i'll ask again and stress role related reasons for the request. mastin, please consider.
but, that isn't going to happen.
for tomorrow, i would ally with Firebringer, Seraphim, farside, OWK. if none of these players are willing to ally with me, i won't be picking an ally for day 2. i don't remember who has decided to ally with who at the moment, so apologies if any of you already have allies for day 2. but i promise i can bring something to the equation.

while i'm reading up, does anyone have any questions for me.

[Not Chara]

As of right now NC, I am not opposed to it.

You know what would help? Voting NC.

was this a typo, or did you request me to vote myself in exchange for allying with me? :>

[Not Chara]

excellent. i'm already voting him.

i'll be going over Almost50 and SirCakez now, but if anyone has questions to me i will still be checking the thread.