BattleCON G18 - KingdomAces (Joal) vs. Zorblag (Tatsumi)

[KingdomAces]

Keep setup. I think I'm going to put this off for now, sorry. Stuff.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 1

Slayer's Drive

No ante

[KingdomAces]

Yeah, I just realized that I actually screwed myself for this turn as I was thinking through this, after I had already seen your setup. I had already planned on using Slayer's beat 1 to take Knuckle, but I apparently didn't realize that I absolutely needed it now. Either that or Dodge. Being able to heal above 20 health might have helped mitigate the damage a bit, but I don't think that's an option.

Advance 1, take Knuckle.


oooJ

T

oo

Joal 14/3
Slayer's Drive
Force Special Dodge
Stockpile: Grasp, Binding Knife, Strike
Hand: Shot, Burst, Runeblade, Ironstar, Knuckle, Hand Cannon
Annihilator

Tatsumi - 20/3
Empathetic Shot
Force Special Dodge
1 Familiar Counter
Guardian Xandjinn


I think that's what you did for Jager, and it should work for Juto as well. Also, I probably don't need to list both my stockpile and my hand, but it should still make things easier. Both of these things look clunky to me though, the former probably because the lack of bold, so maybe it should still be represented differently. Also, since at the very least I'm mostly just copying, there probably isn't actually a reason not to include finishers here. Whatever, done thinking for now.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 2

Dual Wield Knuckle

No ante

[KingdomAces]

I'll discard Shot here.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 3

Cutthroat Burst

No Ante

[KingdomAces]

...I want a rematch after I figure out how Tatsumi is supposed to work. (AKA, I forgot about the range boost from zone 0.)

Advance 0, Retreat 2.

[KingdomAces]

I'm not sure you're right about me having the tools for Beat 2. If I use Cutthroat, you Burst in the opposite direction due to being slower, and still get to range 3. Dodge and Drive were in my discard, and Burst would put me out of range without putting you out of range. From what I can tell, my only options were Relentless Hand Cannon and Warded Burst, both of which would have been atrocious moves if you did anything else.

(Not doing my move now, more stuff)

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 4

So, do I do the obvious move, or the "counter" to the counter of the obvious move that probably doesn't work against anything else and still gets me damaged, or Dodge?

Warded Hand Cannon

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

...well I at least knew you weren't going to use either Fearless or Empathic. Process of elimination is hard.

oJooT

o

o

Joal 5/7
Warded Hand Cannon
Cutthroat Burst
Stockpile: Grasp, Binding Knife, Strike
Hand: Drive, Runeblade, Ironstar, Dodge, Knuckle, Shot
Annihilator

Tatsumi - 20/7
Force Special Grasp
Siren Drive
1 Familiar Counter
Guardian Xandjinn

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 5

Duel Wield Dodge

Spoiler: Reactive Ante

Pass if pass

[KingdomAces]

Advance 2

(And I thought I did change your force to 7. I guess not?)

[KingdomAces]

Drive, advance 1, don't pulse.

(And hold off before next beat, I had already planned this one with the last one.)

[KingdomAces]

That is, assuming I have the option to pulse first due to being faster. Is that, and End of Beat things, based on Active/Reactive player or priority, for the sake of Dual Wield? It doesn't matter this time, and probably won't ever, but it would be nice to know if it ever came up.

(Also, should I be doing the research for these questions myself? I don't think it's too hard, I'm just really lazy.)

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 6

Slayer's Ironstar

Power

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

I didn't actually think you'd try to dodge. Whatever works I guess. I'll take my Knife.

ooooJo

T

Joal 5/9
Slayer's Ironstar
Dual Wield Dodge, Drive
Stockpile: Grasp, Strike
Hand: Runeblade, Knuckle, Shot, Burst, Hand Cannon, Binding Knife
Annihilator

Tatsumi - 15/9
Fearless Dodge
Riptide Burst
4 Familiar Counters
Guardian Xandjinn

Also, have you played someone who prevents opponents from moving past them? Apparently I use a lot of them, but I haven't used anyone who forces long range attacks to miss.

EDIT: Almost forgot about Burst. You have priority. If you don't Burst, I'm not going to want to. If you do I'll have to think about it.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 7

I'm actually in a lot worse of a position than I thought I was. I don't think I can avoid getting hit this beat, assuming you ante Stun Guard. If Cutthroat Knuckle would have worked, I'm going to be angry with myself.

Warded Runeblade

[KingdomAces]

Soak 1

[KingdomAces]

Power +1

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Remaining Antes

Pass all

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 8

Cutthroat Knuckle

Isn't it your ante first? Pass if I am supposed to be first for some reason.

[KingdomAces]

Pass now if I was supposed to be second.

[KingdomAces]

Advance 1, hit and stun, advance 1. I think I don't want to pulse.

ooooJ

T

o

Joal 4/9
Cutthroat Knuckle
Warded Runeblade
Stockpile: Grasp, Strike
Hand: Shot, Burst, Hand Cannon, Binding Knife, Dodge, Drive, Ironstar
Annihilator

Tatsumi - 9/5
Riptide Grasp
Siren Drive
4 Familiar Counters
Guardian Xandjinn

[KingdomAces]

Assuming I didn't mess something up...

Spoiler: Beat 9

You know what would be stupid? If I did the exact same thing I did three Beats ago.

Slayer's Ironstar

I fully expect to be at 1 health after this beat, assuming you don't ante power with Empathetic Strike.

Spoiler: Starting Ante

Soak 1

[KingdomAces]

Power +1

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

I don't actually think I can pulse. Take Grasp.

[KingdomAces]

ooo

T

ooJ

Joal 1/7
Slayer's Ironstar
Cutthroat Knuckle
Stockpile: Strike
Hand: Shot, Burst, Hand Cannon, Binding Knife, Dodge, Drive, Grasp, Runeblade
Annihilator

Tatsumi - 9/4
Fearless Whirlpool
Riptide Grasp
4 Familiar Counters
Guardian Xandjinn

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 10

Force Special Shot

I was waiting for Runeblade, mostly. Also so there are as many triggered abilities as possible in my hand. Move 1 on hit is the only one I'm missing right now, and in this matchup I think that's less important than moving you.

[KingdomAces]

Power +1

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

Ug, stupid finishers auto-winning priority. Having Dash instead of Dodge would be better for me here also. I might have to think about this one for a while.

I'm pretty sure I can't get a hit, but I can practically choose where everyone is on the board, so I'm going to want to plan out the next beat completely before I make my move here.

[KingdomAces]

Current plan is Drive/Knife/Dead card, if you want to prepare for that, but I want to wait until I can think properly (AKA, not now) before actually making a final decision.


EDIT: I don't want to bump the topic, so I doubt you'll actually see this, but I did look over this again and realized that dodging forward one, then going for the drive and knife wouldn't allow Juto to be on top of you. I don't know why I thought otherwise, but that just made me even less sure of what I want to do. Sorry about that.

[KingdomAces]

Before choosing my attack, I had just assumed that I had enough options to catch you regardless of what you did. I'm in a really bad position right now, so I don't know why I'm dreading just finishing the game at this point.

I'll go with my original plan of Drive/Knife(/Grasp if it matters) and advancing the full three.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 12

Cutthroat Binding Knife

No Ante

[KingdomAces]

Power +1

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

Oh. Yeah. Advance 1.

[KingdomAces]

Advance 1.

Should be TJoo

o

oo?

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 12

You have no clue how badly I want to Relentless Ironstar right now.
Duel Wield Knuckle

Pass

[KingdomAces]

Clash

Spoiler: Beat 12 - Clash 1

Duel Wield

Knuckle

I think you Strike here. Game's over if you Drive, but I think everything else is covered?

I've been forced to avoid any damage through most of the game. It should be more helpful when I can absorb a few hits. I forget why it wasn't helpful at the start though, but I think I couldn't have hit you with it even if I tried.

[KingdomAces]

...I meant hand cannon. Seriously.

[KingdomAces]

If you believe me on that...

Spoiler: Beat 12 - Clash 2

Duel Wield

Knuckle

Hand Cannon

Grasp

[KingdomAces]

For the record, I noticed that I didn't actually type it when I hit the quote button to prepare for the second clash. I think that's the only option that fits with everything I said there anyway?

[KingdomAces]

Runeblade, which I think stuns you and gives me two life back?

[KingdomAces]

But yeah, I think Strike was the only thing that beat Grasp there, and I felt a lot safer only losing to Drive than only losing to Strike. Dual Wield makes pretty much everything other than priority irrelevant.

[KingdomAces]

At this point though, I really shouldn't be making these stupid mistakes. I've had something like this at least every other game, but I don't think you have once. As much as I want to finish this now, I think that proves that I really shouldn't.

I would say that at least I made my intention clear, but actually I think writing that was the problem, because that made me not notice that there were less words there than there should have been. That's also part of the reason why I usually have the attack on a separate line from everything else.

But that would involve using my dodge. I need as many forms of movement available as possible, because I'm pretty sure that's Joal's biggest weakness.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Unofficial submission/note to self. My memory is terrible sometimes.

Slayer's Knuckle
This should avoid anything without range, and outspeed everything with range. Wave is dealt with by moving forward. Grasp is a problem, there may be others.

Don't forget about finisher. It's not available now, but it will be soon, assuming I'm not dead.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 13

I forgot that Fearless calculated range from Juto. Slayer's Knuckle would still be a good option, but Fearless Grasp completely stuffs it. Anything with Drive would also clash, and I'm not sure where I'd go from there. After the comeback I've managed to pull off the past few beats, going crazy is probably the last thing I should be doing, especially since the soak prevents me from killing this beat even if antes go in my favor. On the other hand, I only have one more beat to do damage, and I don't really want to be timed out. This is probably really stupid, but I'm calling the Fearless Grasp.

Relentless Drive

Thinking about it even more, Fearless Grasp was probably what your move was before you changed it, so going with this is even stupider. I don't think I care. Well, I do, but you still have to be trying to counter Slayer's Knuckle, right? Probably with a Drive, which means I should be Bursting. Maybe that's what you're preparing for though? Whatever, posting now. CHAAAAAAARGE!

[KingdomAces]

Oh yeah, forgot Ante.

Power +1

[KingdomAces]

Priority +2

[KingdomAces]

Soak 1, then pass.

[KingdomAces]

I'm not looking at your moves before making mine. Seriously.

It's still making me feel bad though, because I always seem to make my move after you do, so I can't really prove it. Speaking of being slow, I don't want to rush this beat, so I doubt I'll have a move down soon.

Stockpile: Strike
Hand: Burst, Hand Cannon, Dodge, Knuckle, Ironstar, Shot, Binding Knife

I also think Juto should be in position 2?

[KingdomAces]

By direct move, are you talking about Empathic? Also, I still think Juto is supposed to be in the space I am, so that wouldn't work anyway.

[KingdomAces]

Out of my 11 bases, in 13 beats I've used 9 of them. 10 if you count purposely wasting Shot twice. This is not going to make figuring out my starting setup for next game any easier.

Spoiler: More notes to self-Beat 14 options

All options involve both Priority and Soak antes.
Cutthroat Knuckle - 8 priority. Auto-win if no opposing Priority Ante (or Dodge, but I think that would be auto-win anyway) (Siren Grasp = 6, +1 from Juto)
Warded Knuckle - Isn't stunned by a Siren Grasp, if no Power ante. Loses to Finisher. Ties with Siren Drive with power ante.
Something Burst - Beats Siren Grasp/Finisher. Loses to Drive/Burst

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 14

Okay, I'm predicting a Siren Drive here. That would clash with Cutthroat Knuckle, and I don't like the followup. Can I really risk the Power ante or Finisher though? I have to play this safe, even if it is incredibly obvious.

Cutthroat Knuckle

Even though I'm 75% certain Warded Knuckle is the correct play.

Spoiler: Reactive Ante

Nope, not actually doing this now. Just putting this here so the spoiler exists.

[KingdomAces]

Soak

[KingdomAces]

Priority

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Beat 15

Dual Wield Dodge

Spoiler: Ante

Priority

[KingdomAces]

Yeah, sounds right.

[KingdomAces]

Actually, I just realized I might have missed something.

[KingdomAces]

No, I'll keep what I had.

[KingdomAces]

Er, no, I might have missed something else.

[KingdomAces]

I am changing it this time.

Spoiler: Revised Beat 15

I keep on forgetting about the not being able to move past opponents part of Dual Wield.

Warded Dodge

Spoiler: Ante

Pass

[KingdomAces]

And I could swear I remember the post Beat 13 said that you had Shot on recharge instead of Grasp.

Soak

[KingdomAces]

Pass

[KingdomAces]

You have priority.

[KingdomAces]

If I would be using Dual Wield Dodge, it would be with priority, so after a clash I could Grasp/Hand Cannon, and then I didn't actually check, but I assumed my extensive set of bases could have made me go first no matter how many times I had to clash. Whether or not that was actually right, I'm not as sure of anymore.

Once I realized that Dual Wield prevented me from covering everything, I changed it to something that I thought there was next to no way you would clash with, and I still think would dodge whatever you could do from there. I'm not sure if Dodge was written with incredibly slow Dodges that still go first due to Start of Beat in mind, but that in some ways makes it just as hard to clash with as Dash was. Speaking of Dash though, I do think Joal would prefer to have the movement actually directly before he gets to Dual Wield into an attack.

I didn't consider you Dodging on Beat 14, because I knew that the HP lead when I had access to both Dodge and Dual Wield would be near impossible to overcome, so much so that I thought I didn't even need to know where anyone one the board was before putting that down.

Good Game, and I'm just as surprised as you are that I managed to pull this out after the 5-20 deficit. The wiki said that Adjenna is good for come from behind victories, but after playing him it seems that Joal has just as much, if not more, potential for that. Slayer's is just way too good. There are very few characters that can nullify End of Beat things, and as I've learned from Lixis, having more bases than your opponent is a huge advantage. Joal can't even lose that advantage due to well timed Dodges, and getting the extra base doesn't actually cost a Beat, since Slayer's is a pretty good style even without the End of Beat. Dual Wield just makes him even more able to out "predict" the opponent. Dual Wield Dodge is so good already, but it would just be completely broken without the cross-up prevention.

Also, is my desire to explain everything I do annoying? I generally don't have much to talk about, so I can go overboard when I do actually have something to say.

I'm good for a rematch if you are. I brought it up early because I thought that the game was going to end without being able to get started, since I apparently flubbed the initial setup. I'm not as insistent as then, but I'm definitely not in a hurry to change characters either.

Also also, I only realized that you put a link to the battleguides in the OP every game recently. I did know they existed, but I personally prefer to try to figure out how the characters work myself, so I doubt I'll be watching them any time soon. Pointing this out in case you would want to stop bothering to put the link there, or in case you think I'm going to be trying to follow them in any way when predicting my moves.

Who says you need to be playing Mafia in order to wallpost? Yeah, this was probably overboard.