Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah em's community seems kinda toxic idk... not rly somewhere i want to associate w/ and play frequently. i like f2f mafia for a fast paced game

i like here a lot. but good to know

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i think people have a bad tendency to expect an easy game after a d1 scum lynch... i did not get an easy game, thus, dissatisfaction.

i also lose motivation rly easily. my townplay is pretty pro-scum lol, i'm easy to manipulate too

There was also the fact that 649 was a much more interesting game and I put WAY more time into it than this one

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I feel bad for whoever is the other townie because I feel like I'm gamethrowing at this point when I'm trying to justify bad townplay

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok

10
6
4
8

All sound about right

Interesting question.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

well
if he normally doesn't rvs his partner, maybe he decided to this one time
but if it's something he (almost) ALWAYS does then i'd see it as relevant

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah, my whole view of the gamestate would have been a clusterfuck and impossible to sort if the person I tunneled on was town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I mean I'm only confident in it because I don't really have any other strong townreads? Like if this is green I might have to take a two day hiatus from the game to get on a clean slate.

I wasn't prepared to lynch tbqh but who would have been a better person to vote?

^this is me @ a 10

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm still struggling to see transcend as scum but i feel like that's exactly what he wants me to say as scum <_>

both of you guys have really townie ISOs and I'm not happy with either lynch just yet. still leaning towards mhsmith but i can't vote.

I think the most puzzling nightkill of this game was N4, Iraon. The benefit Mhsmith gets from it is kind of clear, he gets rid of the most obvtown person pushing for his lynch and increases his chances of living another day. But does Transcend kill him because he can't push on him any more? I feel like scum!Transcend wanted to keep Rosske/Luna Fox alive for as long as possible so that town lynches itself, and then closer to LYLO he could point to the fact that they're still alive and get them lynched. Luna replacing out kind of ruined that momentum, and I feel like Transcend refusing to analyze nightkills could be because he feels that they're extremely incriminating.

The Io kill was really weird too. Mhsmith was the first person to criticize it and call it a bad nightkill. Does he do that to his own nightkill, like an attempt to distance himself from it? But then, I can't figure out why Transcend picks it if he wants to keep Tenshii alive.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga, me refusing to analyze nks is due to fire and ice where it fucked me into oblivion.

oooooh, sorry

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Scum:

Io

,

Kcdaspot

,

Thor

.

Honorable mention to gigabyte for 298 Those sort of posts are popular among scum, because it's a nice setup to get two miss-lynches in a row- but not a real scum read, because other than that one post, nothing super scummy from her.

I'd be okay with lynching Io or Kcdaspot today.

i really have to wonder if this is vote-townie-bus-buddy interactions right here

i never got to talk to kcdaspot about why he was off the karnos wagon, he was interested in voting there but didn't like the (entirely town) wagon composition.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

is drunk transcend as fun as drunk/on sleeping pills kraska

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Reading that makes me confident that, regardless of who is scum, I'm supposed to have the hammer here. That implies scum!Transcend more than scum!Mhsmith, because scum!Mhsmith probably would rather have Thor as a townbeard.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

The Ira kill still makes sense if it's you. What merit would there be from killing me? I definitely do not think you'd consider a Thor kill, so Io makes sense there. How do you suppose it would go if you were scum?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hm, I suppose that if Thor were left alive and you were the goon, then Tenshii would have been lynched after Phanton, too. So, that's really indicative of Transcend, especially because I think he was trying to pocket Tenshii.

So I'd be killed not because of my reads or anything, but more out of necessity. That's an interesting tidbit too, but I guess I really don't have any reads to be killed for anyway

also ftr i'm very anti-wifom nks, I argue against their existence. I would kill Io to let Thor push Tenshii, which is what I supposed happened regardless of the remaining goon. I don't think that was Transcend's motive though.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why does possibly being in the hammering position have to be so emotionally taxing

yeah a tenshii townread isn't implausible at all, but the nightkills don't really make sense with a mhsmith goon

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the thing is, the townbloc is horrible for mhsmith because if it was entirely town, he's put in auto loss. That requires him to actually make optimal nightkills and think about the game carefully. So, sure Thor could be a WIFOM kill or something, but there needs to be a good reason to think so.

so if it is in fact mhsmith, you need to push him the way he is pushing you because i'm starting to get swayed.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hghghg

you're right though transcend

but the only reason i scumread mhsmith AT ALL was because i felt you out-towned him. if the townbloc could have included 6 people, he would have been in there too. no matter what though in that case, there would have been scum in that townbloc.

and like... my read on you absolutely COULD be wrong. when there's a stronger case against you and no case in favor of you, waffling is the natural reaction

like it's obvious whoever is the last goon put me in the hammering position for that reason... which is why

maybe

it can still be mhsmith. but wth is mhsmith killing Io and not letting Tenshii get lynched, which is like the only reason I can think of for him to not kill Thor until now.

@Mhsmith, obviously I'm leaning towards Transcend scum, but Transcend is right that my waffling is exactly what lead us here and I don't think I'd forgive myself for mislynching him. I really do not know what to ask of you but I would like Transcend to at least give something more of a case that isn't just rehashing his own quotes!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i am being manipulated but i cannot tell who is manipulating me

this is horrible.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Transcend, i completely understand and i feel the same way about you

i really do not want this to be an AtE fest though

@Mhsmith, You've made a good case explaining why you wouldn't kill Io. Logically speaking, that makes you more likely to be town than Transcend, who I think has the motive to make all of the kills that happened. What I want Transcend to do is at least explain why that isn't the case because I think it's only fair to use the evidence we've been provided with to find the last goon. The nightkills is where there are unresolved questions, essentially, and I think that's the most important thing for Transcend to look at if he wants to prove it's you because you've been put in an auto-loss position if you are in fact scum.

sorry i was really uninterested this game, mafia is a team effort and i really did not pull my weight this game.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

like

the townbloc put mhsmith in a horrible position if he is scum

so he can't really waste any nightkills to intentionally sow confusion...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

let's take our time then for everyone's sake

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Off giga let ira mislynch the shit out of smith

Off ira. Me thor tenshii cake walk scum win.

hm.

What about Io though? Like I guess if you were scum then you have been setting up a Mhsmith mislynch since D2, but I thought that Luna and Rosske were supposed to be the mislynches if you were scum. The whole replace-out thing would have ruined that and force you to shit gears (like you said, you map out your games). And, also, the fact that you were defending Tenshii so hard makes me think that you were planning out a Tenshii/Thor/You LYLO in the end...

I'm going to take a look at what Wing said against Mhsmith really quickly and post it here for posterity.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Based on Karnos interactions, the fact that Karnos tried to bait Kcdaspot into hammering him (Post 231) points somewhat strongly to mhsmith being scum. Why ask a townie with a short fuse and an erratic playstyle to hammer? Kcdaspot might as well have hammered there for all Karnos knew. Then Karnos puts Kcdaspot in his scumreads along with Thor and Io. Fits with his bussing meta and also, he spent a LOT of time arguing with Thor and Io but in Post 386, kcdaspot and Io are his top scumreads with Thor as a lighter scumread.

Interaction with Rosske in Post 506 is actually the exact same thing Karnos did with me in Mini 1800 when I misread him which might point slightly towards Rosske as town.

The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling decently confident it's actually mhsmith.

I'm not going to re-read a 200 page-long ISO but key points that stuck out to me:

1) Mhsmith's case and jump onto Karnos is the only one out of everyone here that makes sense as a smooth hop onto a bus wagon. Everyone else has interactions that stick out in a way that is unlikely to be bussing (except Rosske but he has the nightkill going for him).

2) Mhsmith asking people what they thought of the evidence against Karnos is something I've seen scum do before when they are last-minute bussing.

3) Mhsmith is one of the few that doesn't react to the KTS scumclaim.

4) Mhsmith's subtle push on Transcend after I outlined suspicion of him without explicitly agreeing with me and using information he had for months is a scummy positioning move.

VOTE: Mhsmith

This is who I think will slip scum. There's no real reason I can find to townread him other than lots of effort but that's something I could see him doing as scum given how thorough and focused and determined to win he is in his other games regardless of alignment. I could see him kill outside Thor for the WIFOM and chaos.

will look these posts over later when my head is clearer.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wrt 1991, it wasn't actually a potential hammer, karnos was at like L-2 or L-3 at the time. I'd theoretically agree that hammering for town credit and to cut off discussion might have been a strategy there, but that would require karnos to have no clue about the number of votes on him, which is just bizarre for a wolf to be doing.

It is also NOT consistent with karnos's bussing meta; when karnos busses, he BUSSES, see the links I'd shown earlier. Karnos's interaction with buddies seems to basically be zero or bussing (or interacting with one buddy about the bus of another).

wrt 1992, see my immediate response in 1993, 1994, and later discussion in 2026, 2029, etc.

noted

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i like mhsmith's walls

maybe because i'm supposed to the "giga sucks less" idea could be getting me to vote transcend first... i have to be better at identifying when i'm actually being manipulated.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

let's build a townbloc is still tenshii's thing but
sure wth let's clear me transcend

[gigabyteTroubadour]

NOT HAMMERING

[gigabyteTroubadour]

sorry i was getting water

[gigabyteTroubadour]

<_>

I'm going to sleep now...

I will write a post discussing my feelings regarding both sides at some point tomorrow. but this game has been a headache and now it's kind of getting emotional

[gigabyteTroubadour]

just
i know one of you is confscum
but can we try to keep it civil... sorry, i woke up and got worried that this might get a little toxic.

likely going to make post discussing actual opinions when i decide to not phone post. it's harder to articulate thoughts on a phone

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm worried and it was more of a warning anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't think transcend's way of talking about thor contradicts that obvtown sentiment

it's more that tenshii and i were townier and luna was as good as conftown...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

still pretty much 50/50 on this though. i can't sleep obviously

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ughghfsgdg

you guys both outplayed me anyway so i should 100% take the blame for the loss if i choose wrong

[gigabyteTroubadour]

going to sleep... hopefully

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Is Newbie 1714 your most recent scumgame? Trying to weakly meta you.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

gigabyteTroubadour

well sry mhsmith but ima stick with my guns from the beginning

VOTE: mhsmith0

This is an insult and a misrep

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also mafiauniverse is very annoying to read through on my phone

i'll have to save that for later

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tbh i am probably 60-40 on it being Transcend!scum now, i was feeling the faked emotions argument earlier on today anyway but it felt rude to say

conventional wisdom says i should have hammered earlier, since the person you have been townreading all game takes you to LYLO with your weaker scumread, but what's stopping me from doing that is that a Thor/Transcend/Smith lylo is also not very good for mhsmith!scum, Thor might be able to see that Transcend is lynchbait and question why i am killed over him

yeah i can't sleep

[gigabyteTroubadour]

intent to vote transcend

i need to review everything (i've been busy yesterday and i will continue to be for the next few days) but i don't see much that will change my view

i'll formally announce a v/la once i get a better idea of my schedule. apologies.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Countdown: Until gigabyteTroubadour is ready.

hey there's no deadline

i can stall all i want

if transcend intends to respond to the substantive case against him then i will let him.

the work i have done on my own is reading that Stack the Deck game (forgot the number) and that Newbie game (forgot the number too). Seems pretty clear that this is either a very good facsimile of mhsmith's town game or, he is likely town. transcend is a much tougher player to meta, this really seems like it could be any game of his.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hi

still busy but acknowledging i'm not hammering

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i can't think of anything to ask

i'm planning to do a big re-read saturday, so I might have content by then

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this is true.

i want to make sure I win this though...... zzzzzz sorry i'm going for the slow burn for you guys

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmao
i wont hammer until the last minute

probably

[gigabyteTroubadour]

sinking my teeth back into the game right now since i have free time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

as soon as i take a break you guys keep posting

at this point i'm probably just going to yolo hammer someone... rereading is just making me confbias

note to self: never be the hammerer in lylo when you're unsure of your reads in a game :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It's hilarious that trans is representing the process where I went back and re-read, and firmed up my TR of giga and wolf read of trans, as if I was spending the day waffling, or as if my posts looking back on D1-D5 were nothing but waffling.

^yeah this annoyed me too but


gughuhuhuhuhguhugfhufdhsgf

it feels so wrong to vote for anyone

i'm willing to believe transcend in that AtE is his thing so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok i'm about to vote... don't get a heart attack...

and don't twilight troll either even if i deserve it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Transcend

you guys both put up a really good fight, this wasn't an easy decision to make and i know it probably looked like i was slacking off but i just... this was the worst lylo i could have survived for and the decision was NOT easy. first win or third loss?? tbd

transcend if i'm wrong you can blacklist me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

please tell me you're not trolling

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Nah I got crapped on well done to the town and mhsmith. BUT I WAS SO FUCKING CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH THANK GOD

MY FIRST WIN AAAAAAAAAA

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah

really the nightkills were the most damning thing for transcend

plus i really felt like his push on me D2 was incredibly manipulative towards me since i said earlier he was a strong tr for his weird-ass pushes... felt like he was trying to capitalize on that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i was trying to push away the night kills as much as possible.

i don't actually think the night kills were stupid they all pointed to me.

but how the fuck could i win that game having to survive 5 lynches..... and make 3 nightk ills.

lots and lots of lynchbait

i kind of want to hear the reasoning behind all the kills now...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Thor died because as I said in my PM to tojam, it would be suicide to kill anyone else.

ok yeah that's what i figured...

like as soon as i saw that thor died i was like "it probably is transcend..."

if you killed, say, mhsmith, you'd have to find a reason to make me want to vote Thor... you could probably have persuaded thor to vote me but it'd be really hard too

mhsmith+thor would have powertowned you

if i hammered mhsmith instead the day before, i feel like thor would know tenshii was lynchbait... idk

and yeah transcend i figured... i felt mean saying that but we all knew

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I seem to have a talent for getting hammered on weekends while I'm away from my computer, second game in a row where this happened.

GL town. Make sure you lynch Io for me tomorrow.

this game doesn't end until vengeance is found. rip my friend. your lynch was honestly the most ridiculous thing i've seen.

You guys had lots of good points on me, but this is pissed off me talking to my partner

THIS WAS THE SCUMSLIP I WAS LOOKING FOR ALL GAME JFC

i was going to joke vote you for that earlier in the game but i couldn't find the post somehow

i ctrl-f'd "buddy" in your ISO but i couldn't find it... it was "friend" ://

It's gonna be funny when some of you guys see me as a wolf. My level of game solving is something I really strugge to replicate as a wolf.

yeah, when i read your newbie, your walls and stuff actually looked like fluff... i was paranoid that maybe you got better but you didn't!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Now I just gotta decide who gets HM I'm probably gonna give it to mhsmith here since he took an absolute shit on me, but Giga making the correct decision in the end was also pretty sweet along with his pouncing of karnosd d1.

why not both ?

i think mhsmith deserves it more personally but... screw the rules, y'know?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

BTW fellas no Scum PT. Tojam said there was a scum!pt but I was never granted permission to view it!

I really really hope there was a dead pt.

figures, karnos died D1 so there was really no point in it...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@giga: one serious piece of advice: don't look for scum slips. Look for overall approach, inconsistencies between words and actions, etc. trans's "slip" easily could have been how he'd talk to an actual town read, for instance. Most "slips" are null mis-speaks, and the people pouncing on them are the actual wolves.

i agree, that's why i said i'd jokingly push transcend on that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i mean i was coasting and not really scumhunting too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

^^that's true

Io for MVP

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Honorable mention. Some people like to pick a player they felt did the best in a game if they keep track of wins/losses.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

thanks ira

[gigabyteTroubadour]

;-;

I thought i had giga pocketed tho

the one time waffling helps town is when scum thinks they've pocketed a waffle

conventional wisdom says that you should never trust strong townreads that make it to lylo anyway. conventional wisdom can be wrong tho

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm flattered !!!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh damn

i almost forgot to ask why :O

[gigabyteTroubadour]

nah this is a loss

transcend did a good job fooling all of us i think but it's the sheer number of mislynches that helped me realized i was on the wrong track with that read

so... you helped us win in a way

plus you got the first scum lynched, it probably could have been avoided if you didn't quickhammer

a win is a win