Mini 1834: Biker Wars: Blood in the Streets (Game over!)

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: kuribo

His reaction was inherently scummy.

[eagerSnake]

yeah there's definitely at least one scum among those five


but by all means continue

Whattiair you say that?

[eagerSnake]

yeah there's definitely at least one scum among those five


but by all means continue

What makes you say that?

EBWOP Damn phone...

[eagerSnake]

Snakes reaction was interesting.

Thanks. I try to be interesting.

[eagerSnake]

Oh noes

[eagerSnake]

CKD I actually remember reading games of yours in like 2008, nice to see you're still playing here. A lot of the people from back then have gone away.

[eagerSnake]

farside also, I remember you. Did you play in #mafia?

[eagerSnake]

Not that I recall.

Oh, I remember playing in a game with you here.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=7673

[eagerSnake]

eagersnake's posting comes off really stiff tbh. I can't tell if the "reasoning" in 7 is serious or a joke and the "oh noes" just feels rlly forced

I can't tell if you're serious or just RVS bantering.

But I am wondering why aren't you voting me. That seems like a really good reason to vote someone, especially on page one.

[eagerSnake]

yeah I'm pretty sure this is town

You must be really good a townhunting. Care to give insight? How can you tell that it's town?

[eagerSnake]

So your reasoning is "I'm town so someone voting me must be scum." You know that's the exact definition of OMGUS, right?

[eagerSnake]

I mean, mathematically, it's more likely. But pre-game suggests the votes are NAI.

[eagerSnake]

Also, not OMGUS. Logic.

Hi Aristophanes. I'm curious, what is your definition of OMGUS?

[eagerSnake]

i can't tell if it's posting style or just alignment-indicative.

Scum games:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67153
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67932

Town games:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=66845
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=67948
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67900

[eagerSnake]

got my answer looking at the town games. posting style. god that's gonna bug me then.

Notice how I catch all the scum, but nobody listens to me. This is probably because of my posting style. I have Asperger's so take that into consideration.

[eagerSnake]

Also, not OMGUS. Logic.

Hi Aristophanes. I'm curious, what is your definition of OMGUS?

OMGUS is a suspicion upon a player due to their suspicion on you. This ranges wildly and often includes voting someone back. However, in this case, Kuribo is stating something mathematically logical, and the situation would be the same no matter who had been voted. It is therefore not OMGUS. If something is objectively correct, how is it OMGUS!?

Not that your definition is wrong, but I have a different, simpler definition. Any time someone states anything that relates to "You're scum because you're voting/attacking me and I'm town," I consider it OMGUS.

with me being town [...] players voting me on page one [...] at least one is a scared child, trying to fit into a man's game.

[eagerSnake]

Why are you reading so much into this?

You shouldn't be surprised, considering 09:12 where I tunneled ASP the entire game based on his 1st post.

[eagerSnake]

Don't tunnel till day 2, take it from a known tunneler.

If I know someone is scum, why not tunnel them?

[eagerSnake]

How can you possibly know at this stage?

It was a general question.

[eagerSnake]

SC shouldn't need to look at the links, see Grandest Idea, he was mod, I was town. I tunneled scum d1 in that game too based on him saying the word "jester."

[eagerSnake]

Orly?

[eagerSnake]

My iso from game sircakez modded: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[eagerSnake]

Also tunelled a guy for saying "don't target me" because it was an "unprovoked aoftclaim"

[eagerSnake]

You say that, yet you're not voting Kuribo.

[eagerSnake]

You say that, yet you're not voting Kuribo.

Patience young Padawan. The force flows through you, but you are not yet wise in the ways of hunting the Sith.

You understand me.

[eagerSnake]

Ehh... my only real benefit to town is that I'm really easy to read (alignment-wise). I'm self-aware of this, don't worry.

[eagerSnake]

Can I proxy my vote to someone for D1?

[eagerSnake]

Can I proxy my vote to someone for D1?

Hi i'll buy

But you haven't done anything to move the game forward..

[eagerSnake]

@Untrod Tripod:

I'm willing to proxy my vote to you for D1, just tell me where to place it.

[eagerSnake]

What is your read on Untrod Tripod, CKD?

[eagerSnake]

@Untrod Tripod:

I'm willing to proxy my vote to you for D1, just tell me where to place it.

no one man should have this much power

but no, you have to have your own opinions

But, if I think you're town, how could making you a pseudo-DV be a bad thing?

[eagerSnake]

Okay we're going to settle this now as it's just going in circles.

Parama, do you think farside22 is scum? If so, why?

Farside22, do you think parama is scum? If so, why?

[eagerSnake]

But if I think you're town, and I trust your hunting abilities more than my own, giving you another vote gives the town a better chance of winning. Thus, I'm playing to my win-condition. That's not against the spirit of the game, in my opinion.

Regardless of your alignment, you should jump on this. Do you need me to vote on my own, in order to get a read on me? Or is it that do you not want the responsibility of two votes? Or do you have some moral/value that keeps you from accepting this second vote?

[eagerSnake]

Based on your meta-read of me from that game, how do you expect me to play?

[eagerSnake]

This is hilariously ridiculous and distracting.

To quote you, "Let's settle this now."
Eager, everyone but you has said this is a bad idea. You can sheep him if you like his votes, but this will still be a choice you make and you will be responsible for it. Stop trying to pawn off that responsibility just because you hard read someone D1. You're doing the same thing you do with your scumreads: tunnel it until there is no reliability or meaning left to your read.

Clear, concise, and making a lot of good points here. I guess I should just 'sheep' someone if I hard TR them, instead of 'giving them my vote.' I didn't see it as 'pawning off my responsibility,' as I'm still responsible for giving him my vote, but I can see how everyone else would see it that way.

[eagerSnake]

NO WAY YOU BELIEVE THIS.

[...]

also..distancing? distancing from what exactly?

VOTE: cakez

there is no way...absolutely no way you believe this at all.

I think you have seen a couple people say they thought I was scum, and you are just dropping this in, so you can jump in on the wagon if one develops without much effort or suspicion.

I am calling bullshit

Everything I quoted here are my thoughts of I feel about Cakez' view on me, mirrored.

[eagerSnake]

@RachMarie: Don't worry, I'm not scum this game, like I was when I played with you in Horoscopes. So don't bring your "last-game-together-he-fooled-me" bias in here, it'd be a waste of your time

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: farside22

[eagerSnake]

Called it!

[eagerSnake]

No I'm not nervous what would make you think that?

[eagerSnake]

I'll let you in on a secret here

[wifom]I have specific tells as scum, one of which I was not aware of until part-way through this game. I'm guilty of the "needing to justify everything I do"-tell, which is a common tell that I think many players dont pick up on. However I didn't realize it until I compared myself so far in this game, to my scum game to see what differences there were. Note that in future games, I will not be guilty of this tell (hopefully)[/wifom]

[eagerSnake]

then why did you make a deal about it?

Also not fond of you trying to proxy vote either.

But still pegging everyone so will come back to this.

Because I saw how you treated IV in other games directly after he and I won Horoscopes.

Yes, I read games that I'm not involved in.

[eagerSnake]

You forget that I was scum reading you in that game, and actually wanted to lynch you and sort the cross claims out the next day? I should have pushed harder on that, and then I would have sorted out the cross claims the next day.

I don't forget this! You should have lynched me as soon as I claimed scum!

[eagerSnake]

I'll give you a hint, b2b-ISO farside & parama

[eagerSnake]

Town {Cakez, GreyICE, UT}
~~
Scumlean {eagerSnake}
Scum {farside, Parama}

Where I'm at atm

I agree with the GreyICE and UT reads. Disagree with the read on myself, and I'm not sure about it being SvS or TvS.

[eagerSnake]

I'm not sure if Para and Farside is SvS or TvS

[eagerSnake]

I think both farfar and Parama are town ^_^
Gimme ur vote(and soul) snake

I've made up my mind that it's not TvT so good luck convincing me otherwise

[eagerSnake]

& you're not getting my vote because I don't hard TR you and disagree with your read on that interaction

[eagerSnake]

[wifom]just noticed another scumtell of mine. scum-me changes his mind more frequently where town-me is more stubborn lol[/wifom]

[eagerSnake]

Lol I actually love 200. the way GreyICE calls people scum is just too much

[eagerSnake]

Snake betch of you end up voting on a mislynch today, you're giving me ur vote tom

If I'm voting on a mislynch today then I'm going to have to reasses everything so I don't feel comfortable making this promise

[eagerSnake]

Why are you scum reading me over parama?

I don't really have any good reasons except that I can't understand most of your posts (not sure if this is typical of you, and it likely applies to myself), I thought you were lying about the ignore thing when GreyICE said what he said (I lynch all liars), and it's a 50/50 between you 2 (in my head).

P.S. don't let these bad reasons drown out any actual good reasons there may be

[eagerSnake]

Your entire argument about the Kuribo wagon being NAI didn't match your town play at all

My "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon? Thank you for making this easy.

VOTE: SirCakez

@Everyone here was my "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon being NAI.

I mean, mathematically, it's more likely. But pre-game suggests the votes are NAI.

[eagerSnake]

K can everyone lynch SirCakez now

[eagerSnake]

Or give a good reason why his reasoning for me being scum is actually logical.

[eagerSnake]

SirCakez just quoted a bunch of my posts, but none of them have anything to do with my "entire argument" on the Kuribo wagon being NAI.

Lynch please.

[eagerSnake]

Your entire argument about the Kuribo wagon being NAI didn't match your town play at all

My "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon? Thank you for making this easy.

VOTE: SirCakez

@Everyone here was my "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon being NAI.

I mean, mathematically, it's more likely. But pre-game suggests the votes are NAI.

Not letting this get lost on the last page.

[eagerSnake]

Here's how his thought process just went: "Damn, I made a shitty argument trying to attack the lynchbait, better quote a bunch of his shitty posts."

[eagerSnake]

Signing off for the night, will be happy to see this scum flip in the A.M.

[eagerSnake]

His argument for me being scum is worse than mine was for farside being scum. Need I say more?

[eagerSnake]

I thought I was the bees knees in that game, upon further review all of my strong scum reads were either on town or on the Jester. MAYBE THAT'S WHY I'M VOTING LESS FREELY.

[eagerSnake]

Of course, you would know that since you were the mod.

[eagerSnake]

Stranger coug you missed my vote on the last 2 counts

[eagerSnake]

The fact that I'm irresistibly juicy lynchbait deters them from explaining for this exact reason, when scum like you take the bait. It's a gift being to be obvtown and irresistibly juicy bait at the same time.

At first I thought you were baiting the scum to hop on my wagon, but as it turns out, you're actually the one who took the bait. So yeah, gg. If you're town, you should work on your townreading skills. You literally picked the most obvtown person in the thread to attack.

[eagerSnake]

It's a gift being to be obvtown and irresistibly juicy

You can't be both at the same time -_-
If majority reads you as town then you can't be lynchbait bc whoever tries to get you lynched will get flak

They just can't resist, hence the words "irresistibly juicy."

[eagerSnake]

yeah well that's the best you're gonna fucking get for now


honestly i've been demoralized against this game since i got my role PM so

I'll be more than happy to lynch this pre-mature softclaim

[eagerSnake]

I actually like having you in the game though that's why I didn't put my vote back on you, yet.

[eagerSnake]

Woah you don't need to be hostile towards me no I don't want you to hard claim but I don't want you to soft, either.

[eagerSnake]

Comedy Central in here

[eagerSnake]

Have a good day!

[eagerSnake]

Kraska should cakez and I ignore each other?

[eagerSnake]

Also cakez admitted to reading my stuff as town but pursuing it anyway when be said "most of his stuff is easy to fake" implying he reads it as town but thinks I'm faking

[eagerSnake]

I can see where you're coming from but I disagree. A lot of this stuff he's doing is easily fakable, and in the case of going after a hard to lynch target, was probably just a bad scum move that he's playing off.

This is what I'm referring to.

[eagerSnake]

Nope. You just need to vote him (if you're not already)

[eagerSnake]

@everyone stop. Read. Then explain, in detail, why your vote is not here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Do you think he's just being bad?

[eagerSnake]

eager, why would you vote kuribo over sircakez at all. the softclaim is bad, sure, but not really scummy.

I didn't. Only reason I would is if someone could somehow prove to me that SirCakez is in fact just guilty of bad judgement, and even then IDK if I would believe it.

[eagerSnake]

Yeah, I have a list of like 100 different things I would just immediately conf!scum lynch someone for, but I am finding that is too extreme of a view. They are scumtells, sure, but conf!scumming someone for doing just one of them is way too extreme, so I'm working on not doing that.

[eagerSnake]

i dislike eager continuing to refer to himself as lynchbait.

Also, do you disagree with the fact that it's extremely easy to make an argument against me?

[eagerSnake]

I feel like it's relevant. If someone else would point out these things then I wouldn't have to.

[eagerSnake]

Also him openly taking concern with me is concerning, as its not productive. I'm sure everyone agrees with what he is saying, but they don't point it out because they don't feel the need to, but he's like oh I can point out my concern with this to look townie!

[eagerSnake]

^ yeahup

[eagerSnake]

A lot of this stuff he's doing is easily fakable

"stuff" was the word Cakez originally used, btw.

[eagerSnake]

Seriously, Cakez, regardless of your alignment you picked the wrong guy.

[eagerSnake]

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play and it would not be a loss for us either way

I would be fine with a lynch, hell I'd be fine hammering him myself right now. He did it to himself.

[eagerSnake]

Alright I'm going to spoiler quote every single interaction between me and Cakez so you can read it and make up your mind for yourself.

[eagerSnake]

Spoiler: SirCakez and eagerSnake interactions

VOTE: kuribo
Always scum

VOTE: kuribo

His reaction was inherently scummy.

VOTE: eagersnake
obvscum

(That was serious just in case I wasn't clear)

elaborate

VOTE: eagersnake
obvscum

(That was serious just in case I wasn't clear)

What makes you say "obvscum"?

ninja'd

His argument with Kuribo is awkward as hell
Especially how he's trying to argue that Kuribo was OMGUSing his wagon

What meta links?
I modded a game that eager played in as town and he wasn't like this.

SC shouldn't need to look at the links, see Grandest Idea, he was mod, I was town. I tunneled scum d1 in that game too based on him saying the word "jester."

Orly?

My iso from game sircakez modded: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Also tunelled a guy for saying "don't target me" because it was an "unprovoked aoftclaim"

SC shouldn't need to look at the links, see Grandest Idea, he was mod, I was town. I tunneled scum d1 in that game too based on him saying the word "jester."

That doesn't relate at all to how you're playing here?

@Untrod Tripod:

I'm willing to proxy my vote to you for D1, just tell me where to place it.

I also hate this bullshit too...own your own vote.

CKD I actually remember reading games of yours in like 2008, nice to see you're still playing here. A lot of the people from back then have gone away.

wait you have been around since 2008 and these are the questions you are asking? who is your alt?


ugh.



this game so far is just ugh.

everything looks scummy.

These are both giving me bad vibes. The first looks like a shitty distancing attempt and the second looks like scum throwing out a line hoping to get vote advice.
CKD prob scum

Based on your meta-read of me from that game, how do you expect me to play?

NO WAY YOU BELIEVE THIS.

[...]

also..distancing? distancing from what exactly?

VOTE: cakez

there is no way...absolutely no way you believe this at all.

I think you have seen a couple people say they thought I was scum, and you are just dropping this in, so you can jump in on the wagon if one develops without much effort or suspicion.

I am calling bullshit

Everything I quoted here are my thoughts of I feel about Cakez' view on me, mirrored.

Based on your meta-read of me from that game, how do you expect me to play?

Not like how you're playing here!
Your entire argument about the Kuribo wagon being NAI didn't match your town play at all
[quote="In post 193, curiouskarmadog"
NO WAY YOU BELIEVE THIS.

what part of EVERYTHING LOOKS SCUMMY = Help me with where my vote should go?

but lets say...yep..that was exactly what I was doing..."need help with my vote"...how is that exactly scummy?

also..distancing? distancing from what exactly?

VOTE: cakez

there is no way...absolutely no way you believe this at all.

I think you have seen a couple people say they thought I was scum, and you are just dropping this in, so you can jump in on the wagon if one develops without much effort or suspicion.

I am calling bullshit

Look at this instant OMGUS from CKD, lol what garbage
Everything looks scummy is obviously fishing for help from someone
Distancing from your scumbuddy eager obviously

first: i literally do not see this at all and completely disagree.
second: i literally do not see this at all and don't even understand the argument being made. i know what you're getting at but i have no clue how it relates at all to that post.

See above

Town: kraska, eager
Moved town town lean: ckd

Scum: ari, sc, Parama

Slipping a scumread in on me that you have literally never mentioned until now?
Let's talk about that.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog for his horrific reaction above[/quote]

Your entire argument about the Kuribo wagon being NAI didn't match your town play at all

My "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon? Thank you for making this easy.

VOTE: SirCakez

@Everyone here was my "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon being NAI.

I mean, mathematically, it's more likely. But pre-game suggests the votes are NAI.

K can everyone lynch SirCakez now

Or give a good reason why his reasoning for me being scum is actually logical.

yeah there's definitely at least one scum among those five


but by all means continue

Whattiair you say that?

yeah there's definitely at least one scum among those five


but by all means continue

What makes you say that?

EBWOP Damn phone...

eagersnake's posting comes off really stiff tbh. I can't tell if the "reasoning" in 7 is serious or a joke and the "oh noes" just feels rlly forced

I can't tell if you're serious or just RVS bantering.

But I am wondering why aren't you voting me. That seems like a really good reason to vote someone, especially on page one.

yeah I'm pretty sure this is town

You must be really good a townhunting. Care to give insight? How can you tell that it's town?

So your reasoning is "I'm town so someone voting me must be scum." You know that's the exact definition of OMGUS, right?

I mean, mathematically, it's more likely. But pre-game suggests the votes are NAI.

Also, not OMGUS. Logic.

Hi Aristophanes. I'm curious, what is your definition of OMGUS?

Also, not OMGUS. Logic.

Hi Aristophanes. I'm curious, what is your definition of OMGUS?

OMGUS is a suspicion upon a player due to their suspicion on you. This ranges wildly and often includes voting someone back. However, in this case, Kuribo is stating something mathematically logical, and the situation would be the same no matter who had been voted. It is therefore not OMGUS. If something is objectively correct, how is it OMGUS!?

Not that your definition is wrong, but I have a different, simpler definition. Any time someone states anything that relates to "You're scum because you're voting/attacking me and I'm town," I consider it OMGUS.

with me being town [...] players voting me on page one [...] at least one is a scared child, trying to fit into a man's game.

Why are you reading so much into this?

You shouldn't be surprised, considering 09:12 where I tunneled ASP the entire game based on his 1st post.

kek

SirCakez just quoted a bunch of my posts, but none of them have anything to do with my "entire argument" on the Kuribo wagon being NAI.

Lynch please.

I was quoting all of his stuff from his argument over the Kuribo wagon
It wasn't supposed to be a case

Your entire argument about the Kuribo wagon being NAI didn't match your town play at all

My "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon? Thank you for making this easy.

VOTE: SirCakez

@Everyone here was my "entire argument" about the Kuribo wagon being NAI.

I mean, mathematically, it's more likely. But pre-game suggests the votes are NAI.

Not letting this get lost on the last page.

It was a response to the snake saying he had only one post relating to the Kuribo wagon argument, which he was obviously lying about

Here's how his thought process just went: "Damn, I made a shitty argument trying to attack the lynchbait, better quote a bunch of his shitty posts."

I mean he's just being obvscum about it now with the discrediting
P-edit: calling yourself lynchbait won't save you, scum

Signing off for the night, will be happy to see this scum flip in the A.M.

His argument for me being scum is worse than mine was for farside being scum. Need I say more?

Hey Cakez, you know how you could help me out? Explain how what Snake did didn't match what you thought was his "townplay".

Then when you're done that, can you help me on a bigger issue? I see three points in your post:

1) CKD Flipped out when you slid him in as a vague scumread
2) You think CKD's flip out is super unjustified and totally scummy
3) Farside slipped you in as a vague scumread and you think that's scummy

So... uh... I don't follow

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lect=28013
Here is the town game I keep referring to
Look at eager's ISO
He's voting freely, not really arguing with anyone and just pushing his own agenda, there's none of this semantical bullshit he's arguing here

I was pretty clear about my CKD scumread
Farside put me in there with 0 reasoning
There's a difference

I thought I was the bees knees in that game, upon further review all of my strong scum reads were either on town or on the Jester. MAYBE THAT'S WHY I'M VOTING LESS FREELY.

Of course, you would know that since you were the mod.

Hey Cakez how is you saying "I don't like this specific point eager made" and eager saying "but that point was like literally one sentence in one place" anything resembling semantics?

I'm referring to the argument around the point he made as semantics, not the stuff that came on the last few pages

Nah his play here is obvscum

People just keep going "eager is obvtown lel" but no one is actually saying WHY
Sketchy as hell

The fact that I'm irresistibly juicy lynchbait deters them from explaining for this exact reason, when scum like you take the bait. It's a gift being to be obvtown and irresistibly juicy bait at the same time.

At first I thought you were baiting the scum to hop on my wagon, but as it turns out, you're actually the one who took the bait. So yeah, gg. If you're town, you should work on your townreading skills. You literally picked the most obvtown person in the thread to attack.

It's a gift being to be obvtown and irresistibly juicy

You can't be both at the same time -_-
If majority reads you as town then you can't be lynchbait bc whoever tries to get you lynched will get flak

They just can't resist, hence the words "irresistibly juicy."

eagerSnake- Despite what was said earlier I ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY EXPLAINED WHY I WAS TOWNREADING SNAKE. He went after a "hard to lynch" target when he didn't have to. He's active, he's engaging even when he isn't under fire. I could be wrong about eager, but I don't think I am.

I can see where you're coming from but I disagree. A lot of this stuff he's doing is easily fakable, and in the case of going after a hard to lynch target, was probably just a bad scum move that he's playing off.

People just keep going "eager is obvtown lel" but no one is actually saying WHY
Sketchy as hell

I wouldn't call him obvown but I lean town for reasons I've explained

I went through your ISO and saw nothing
Pls explain

Voting Kubio for Lalalalalalalala purposes.

of the five people that voted me, snake would be the easiest mislynch for scum to push. he may not be too bright in the head, but that doesn't make him scum.

if anything i'd say his persistence against a mislynch attempt with a difficulty factor of 1000% makes it even less scummy

i can see how you'd miss that, what with it hiding in my ISO and all

Mb

Farside's "case" against me is I have no reasoning for anything? That's complete bull, I just outlined my scum read against snake and my scum read on CKD is pretty cut and dry.
"No reasoning" is not gonna fly

Also cakez admitted to reading my stuff as town but pursuing it anyway when be said "most of his stuff is easy to fake" implying he reads it as town but thinks I'm faking

I can see where you're coming from but I disagree. A lot of this stuff he's doing is easily fakable, and in the case of going after a hard to lynch target, was probably just a bad scum move that he's playing off.

This is what I'm referring to.

Nope. You just need to vote him (if you're not already)

@everyone stop. Read. Then explain, in detail, why your vote is not here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Do you think he's just being bad?

eager, why would you vote kuribo over sircakez at all. the softclaim is bad, sure, but not really scummy.

I didn't. Only reason I would is if someone could somehow prove to me that SirCakez is in fact just guilty of bad judgement, and even then IDK if I would believe it.

Also cakez admitted to reading my stuff as town but pursuing it anyway when be said "most of his stuff is easy to fake" implying he reads it as town but thinks I'm faking

No, I read your "stuff" as null crap that you shouldn't be being townread for

i dislike eager continuing to refer to himself as lynchbait.

Also, do you disagree with the fact that it's extremely easy to make an argument against me?

Just look at this garbage
Literally no one except me is attacking him and he's trying to make himself look all vulnerable and lynchbaity when he's being widely townread
It's fake as fuck

VOTE: eager

A lot of this stuff he's doing is easily fakable

"stuff" was the word Cakez originally used, btw.

Seriously, Cakez, regardless of your alignment you picked the wrong guy.

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play and it would not be a loss for us either way

I would be fine with a lynch, hell I'd be fine hammering him myself right now. He did it to himself.

Alright I'm going to spoiler quote every single interaction between me and Cakez so you can read it and make up your mind for yourself.

[eagerSnake]

Hey Parama eager spammed quotes does that mean he's scum now?

Seriously?

[eagerSnake]

Honestly like Snake? You know how much Cakez spamming quotes at me convinced me you were scum? Yeah that much.

Now come vote farside. We have cookies and scumlynches on that wagon. You have scum on the Cakez wagon and they're making the place all mucky.

I can't listen to you, because I don't know if you're town, sorry. Not voting farside again today. I'm actually more inclined to believe that Parama is the scum of those 2 now. The only reason I wanted her head is because I thought she was lying about the ignore thing, which I now understand was a misinterpretation of her post.

You should vote SirCakez.

[eagerSnake]

I'd be more convinced if you were voting SirCakez, instead of focusing your attention only on the very obviously lynchbait farside22. (no offence)

@Untrod Tripod:

I'd like your full opinion on everything, please. Just because I think you're town doesn't mean you can just stop working.

[eagerSnake]

Surprising.

[eagerSnake]

Her posts are very vague and hard to read, making it easy as scum to misrepresent her.

Like the above post, [wifom]if I were scum I'd say why are you only bringing up a scum game and not a town game, trying to misdirect us? blah blah blah[/wifom] and the whole ignore button thing also was vague and easy to misrepresent as a lie.

[eagerSnake]

Sounds like lynchbait

[eagerSnake]

You should be happy I'm aware, not sad. Being aware makes me less likely to buy into a bogus argument about you because I will be fact checking.

[eagerSnake]

That's a pretty big hit to my ego.

Thanks. :/

I said no offence! I am lynchbait too, you just have to learn to use it to your advantage. Embrace your flaws. Turn your faults into assets.

[eagerSnake]

Now that you know, you can ask yourself: Do GreyICE, Parama really believe the arguments they are making against you? Or are they just scum trying to filler up with easy arguments, and push an easy lynch?

Remember, scum

have to

make bogus arguments for calling townies scum.

[eagerSnake]

Yes, I do realize it. [rhetorical] You realize you haven't really been trying very hard to convince anyone, right? [/rhetorical] Most of your posts I've just been laughing at the way you go about it, while acknowledging your stance.

458 was much better. More convincing.

[eagerSnake]

What is your confidence level on this, GreyICE? The confidence level tells you how sure you can be. It is expressed as a percentage. The 95% confidence level means you can be 95% certain; the 99% confidence level means you can be 99% certain. Etc.

[eagerSnake]

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play and it would not be a loss for us either way

I would be fine with a lynch, hell I'd be fine hammering him myself right now. He did it to himself.

this is even worse. "he's either scum or bad town. but he's only bad town because he's suspecting me. i want to lynch him regardless of his aligment."

427 is the acceptable response to this.

Any times someone says that I said " I want to lynch him regardless of his alignment " they are 100% of the time misrepresenting my words and more likely scum than not. I never said I don't care about his alignment, he is more likely scum than town in my eyes.

[eagerSnake]

Sorry GreyICE I just feel like, from my shoes, Parama and SirCakez misrepresentation of me is obvious, Parama especially after his latest attempt. He's literally coming after me just to do it, in my eyes. I'm almost certain he was doing the same to farside. I don't even have to read the interactions. He thinks he can get me lynched, he thinks he can eventually, if he keeps pulling my strings, make a good case, but that's not gonna happen, if he keeps pursuing me further, I will get him lynched.

[eagerSnake]

My stance is clear I'm not answering your obvious bait questions, scum.

[eagerSnake]

I'm literally not reading your questions anymore. You're scum, SirCakez is scum, tunnel, initiated.

[eagerSnake]

I don't believe you actually believe your argument.

[eagerSnake]

I can see now why Farside would not answer your questions (if that was even true).

[eagerSnake]

I thought you agreed with me on SirCakez what happened there, GreyICE?

[eagerSnake]

Fine. If you want me to sooo bad, I will go back and answer these stupid ass questions so he can follow them up with more of them and continue to filler and misrep my position.

[eagerSnake]

this is even worse. "he's either scum or bad town. but he's only bad town because he's suspecting me. i want to lynch him regardless of his aligment."

I said this is a misrep because my stance is clear that I think he is scum way before I made my statement about him being scum or anti-town, so this whole thing where he's trying to represent me as not caring about other player's alignments is garbage.

or you could freaking analyze it yourself.

literally doing the same thing cakez did is just going to make me dislike you as much.

instead of leaving other players to make the case, analyze the interactions yourself and tell us why they make sircakez scum, because i'm definitely not going to try and piece it together myself, and i don't know anyone else who is.

This is also garbage because I've already stated plenty of reasons within those quotes to why I think he is scum. There is no need for analysis by anyone, they just need to simply read the quotes and take a stance. The reason I quoted the interactions between SirCakez and myself was to make it an easier read, instead of a back-to-back ISO that includes interactions from me to other players, which have nothing to do with the points I've been making about SirCakez.

okay, here's an exercise for you:

you think i'm the scum between me and farside, which implies you think i'm misrepresenting her.

point to a few examples of me doing so.

I was unsure of you two before all this, but yes I was leaning towards you. Scum isn't 100% of the time misrepresenting someone, sometimes they are just being nitpicky (bogus arguments). The fact that you ask me to go back and point to examples means I will just be wasting my time because you wouldn't point it out if it were there. If you're scum, it's more likely in this case you were just being nitpicky to filler up and push for an easy lynch.

do you believe this yourself? how do you judge whether or not someone else believes arguments they're making?

Intuition/gut. There's more but it's hard to explain how to judge these things, at this point I just go with a subconscious level based on experience.

i mean you're aware mafia is a game where you rarely ever have hard proof of anything, right? the literal only hard proof is mod-confirmed stuff. sometimes you just have to go with your gut, even if you're not extremely certain.

No shit sherlock. I am obviously trying to see how confident he states he is with his read. If he states a high % then I'm going with him on it, if he's wrong then making a note to myself never to trust his reads again, and continuing on D2 with my reads.

you said he could either be scum or bad-town. do you deny this?
you said that if he was town it would not be a loss for the town to lynch him. do you deny this?
you said you'd be fine with lynching him. do you deny this?

in this specific post, you did not lean one way or the other on whether he's scum or town.
using your own bit here: how confident are you that he's scum?

No.
No.
No.

90%. (10% chance of him being bad town.)

Ready for more dumb follow-up questions.

[eagerSnake]

SirCakez is literally active lurking btw.

[eagerSnake]

1. but in the (10%) scenario where he's just badtown, would you be fine with lynching him?

Is this a real question? I obviously would be hurt if he flipped town, as that bring scum closer to their win-con and me further from mine. Did you really expect a different answer here?

[eagerSnake]

Is this a real question?

I obviously would be hurt if he flipped town, as that bring scum closer to their win-con and me further from mine.

Did you really expect a different answer here?

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play

and it would not be a loss for us either way

so now reconcile these two statements, because they look like different stances to me.

Saying what I feel, not trying to cover my tracks.

If he is continually trying to get me lynched (I know I'm town) and is successful, then we lose a townie. If I get him lynched and he is town (which I'm unsure of), then we lose a townie. Therefore not a loss for us in my eyes, considering I'm not getting lynched today, so if he lives to later days and continues his tunnel on me then he may end up lynching me at a more inopportune time (such as lylo)

[eagerSnake]

I can see how from a 3rd person POV who is unsure of my alignment you would read it that way, though. Good posting, looking for contradictions.

Still not sure if you were just trying to bait someone who you know is town or not, though, but now that I see you were actually getting somewhere with your questions, I like you a little better.

[eagerSnake]

@eager (and really everyone):

does it look to you like farside is actively trying to find scum? what i see is her trying to constantly steer the conversation back to her favorite targets (me and greyice) and mostly playing reactionary.

I'm going to be honest with you, I have been mostly reading past you guys because it has seemed like a back and forth logical loop that wasn't going anywhere. Most people would say "eyes glaze over?" I will be keeping more of an eye on this and will go back and reread your interactions.

[eagerSnake]

496 comes off as maybe a little survivalist but on the whole i guess i'm satisfied with that answer.

yes I am trying to out-survive the scum, while keeping the game-state in positions where I won't be mis-lynched in a lylo situation and lose the game for all of us due to a D1 tunnel that I could've prevented by lynching the tunneler D1 who is either A) misreading me or B) scum, how dare me.

sorry if that's hard to comprehend.

[eagerSnake]

He was actually going somewhere with those questions, farside, sorry.

He was trying to point out a flaw in a comparison of 2 of my posts, but the problem with the flaw was it was perspective, from my POV there wasn't a flaw and I explained to him why

[eagerSnake]

Farside-

If he was scum, a flaw like that he could've totally blown up. + town point to Parama

[eagerSnake]

He wanted me to confirm my stance.

[eagerSnake]

Farside answer this question: How do you define what questions are alignment indicative?

[eagerSnake]

Farside answer this question: How do you define what questions are alignment indicative?

[eagerSnake]

I'm so fucking glad I'm town this game or I'd be scared shitless right now

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: Farside22

[eagerSnake]

"I can't tell if" followed by no vote implies confusion. It's normal to be confused by my play if you've never played with me before.

[eagerSnake]

I'm not worried about him because luckily I'm town

[eagerSnake]

while i'm thinking about it:
farside, why did you only answer the question after eager asked it?
what about him asking it suddenly made it alignment-indicative to you? that's your criteria for answering a question, in your own words; any other question isn't important. you previously said the question wasn't alignment indicative. so why did you answer it now, all of the sudden?

[eagerSnake]

This is what they call in a court of law as a continuing objection. A continuing objection is an objection to a series of questions about a related point. A continuing objection may be made, in the discretion of the court, to preserve an issue for appeal without distracting the factfinder (whether jury or judge) with an objection to every question.

Overruled. In this instance, I feel you are better off answering the questions until he reaches deliberation.

[eagerSnake]

Take away "no." And I think you should understand

[eagerSnake]

Farside-

okay. she thought the answers she already gave were self-explanatory

[...]

why did she answer again anyways, after you asked it?

i'm not asking her why she didn't answer me. i'm asking her why she did answer eager, in spite of refusing to answer me.

[eagerSnake]

I'm trying to help you not have to repeat yourself, at least.

[eagerSnake]

@everyone hard read the past 4-5 pages, it's not drivel

[eagerSnake]

He is hunting. I know this from being on the hunted side of it.

[eagerSnake]

Parama this is where you also post a tl;dr deliberation post with some bold letters that force people to read it.

[eagerSnake]

To sum it up: Farside has been lying and contradicting herself like a 4 year-old who just got caught stealing candy from the store.

[eagerSnake]

Btw Parama you're a sneaky fucker when it comes to questioning, and if I'd be scared shitless of you if I were scum.

[eagerSnake]

SirCakez + Farside could be a thing??? IDK why Farside would jump on her partner like that??? His argument against me was that bad and she needed town-cred, though???

[eagerSnake]

oh my god, even your summarization post is insane and wordy

To sum it up: Farside has been lying and contradicting herself like a 4 year-old who just got caught stealing candy from the store.

[eagerSnake]

join my vote, brother

Spoiler: Hell yeah, brotherrr

VOTE: SirCakez

[eagerSnake]

I have you as already voting SirCakes.

Oh I thought I switched to Farside a few pages back.

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: Farside22

[eagerSnake]

No harm no foul.

[eagerSnake]

Yeah I'm about to get ruthless on these lurkers

[eagerSnake]

If you HAVE to lynch some eventually, you might as well do it sooner than later.

[eagerSnake]

Let me make a theoretical tangent here. Some players adopt a consistently scummy playstyle so that people can't read them when they're scum. If you don't lynch them eventually, they'll just win if they're scum; and if you have to lynch someone eventually it's better to do that early rather than late. In theory it might be a good idea to keep a good scumhunter around, but in practice good scumhunters never fall into this category.

Thus, I follow this rule: Any player who is playing in a way deliberately designed to obscure scumtells should be lynched immediately, regardless of meta.

tl;dr: Yes you should lynch people who are obfuscating, even if they're within meta.

[eagerSnake]

Your early talks about PRs are making me suspect you, stop it.

[eagerSnake]

Everyone not voting SirCakez has some explaining to do. Makes it seem like either

A) You know he's town and don't want to be implicated.

B) He's your buddy and don't think the case against him will hold up and don't want to help town.

[eagerSnake]

Note: This does not apply to GreyICE or Parama.

[eagerSnake]

Also the fact that scum are stalling the game makes it apparent that we are on the right track.

[eagerSnake]

Spoiler: Happy Birthday UT!

[eagerSnake]

My meta says I always discuss vig shots day 1 regardless of alignment /s

Maybe today.. you could put the past away

[eagerSnake]

If you wanted to discuss vig kills in a pro-town way you would say something like this:

SnarkySnowman is definitely getting vig'd tonight if he continues obfuscating.

[eagerSnake]

/end of conversation K?

[eagerSnake]

Aristophanes explain why you're not voting

[eagerSnake]

I'm assuming you want to no-lynch if you don't vote someone

[eagerSnake]

Pre-emptive answer: Because there's no way you could possibly have zero suspicion of everyone in the game right now and if that is the case then you are scum.

[eagerSnake]

Kuribo is voting for SirCakez because:

SirCakez- Calling Eager scum for meta reasons, ew, but voting CKD, almost feels like he wants to push the Eager wagon without REAAALLLY pushing it. I don't know. There are hits and pieces of decent townplay here but something is rubbing me the wrong way. Null-to-scum.

Is this your full reasoning?

His other scum lean is:

Gear- Who? It's scum, and if it wants to change that maybe it should fucking do something.

Is this still how you feel about this slot?

No further questions

[eagerSnake]

Patience young one.

Have you read my name? Patience is a virtue; my least favorite one. We don't need to use all 14 days, that just gives scum time to squirm their way out of a lynch and their buddies can cover up their tracks. This will lead to future mislynches. I'm ready. I'm so ready.

[eagerSnake]

I merely would like to figure things out and haven't really been active in doing so as of yet.

When can we expect you to figure out how you are going to position yourself?

[eagerSnake]

Its Ari, SC, and Far or Para methinks

[eagerSnake]

Pretty sure it is but I'm taking the juicy credit for this scumflip

[eagerSnake]

Because I'd hate to give a scum busser any town credit

[eagerSnake]

I'm a watcher. So pls get your asses moved to eager.

Kraska, did you miss this? Or did you just not care? lol

[eagerSnake]

TBH I wouldn't have cared either I would've hammered his scum ass as soon as I had the chance

[eagerSnake]

He ain't flipping town watcher don't worry (repeats thing about eating words)

[eagerSnake]

But I'm asking did you see him say that or not

[eagerSnake]

NVM you can answer that tomorrow

[eagerSnake]

I'm not a guy

But you're on the internet

[eagerSnake]

How so? All I did was point out that someone is on the internet.

[eagerSnake]

Ha. Good answer yet again Parama.

I was getting a feeling you were keen on getting people to dislike me, but you're ridiculously good at passing tests if you're scum.

[eagerSnake]

Its Ari, SC, and Far or Para methinks

VOTE: Aristophanes

Start here. I'm sure you can all use a break from Para/Far, so we'll get to that tomorrow

[eagerSnake]

Sorry this game was so easy btw

[eagerSnake]

@mod: can we vote for a shortened night, or do the last scum need time to breath?

[eagerSnake]

Who do you think is the scum between farside, parama?

[eagerSnake]

kuriboz
can i trust you?

Why does it matter? You can trust me.

[eagerSnake]

I went back and forth, my first impression was farside but that was based on false assumption, after that parama, then back to farside. Either way it doesn't matter

One of farside or parama is definitely getting vig'd tonight.

[eagerSnake]

We don't need to consider Rachel if you're right about Para.

[eagerSnake]

Para bus your buddy Ari now, stop trying to set up farside

[eagerSnake]

Vigilante kills Parama tonight

[eagerSnake]

Game is over. Parama, aristophanes, sir cakes were scum. Lynch aristophanes today, vigilante kills Parama, gg.

[eagerSnake]

Hurry up kraska, hurry up UT, and everyone else vote aristophanes so we can stop Bullshitting around and get on our bikes and ride

[eagerSnake]

Vote Ari or u claim scum

[eagerSnake]

No. Vig kills Parama and we win.

[eagerSnake]

It was obvious planned setup farside kill

[eagerSnake]

Good thing we don't need ur vote to Lynch scum, ckd

[eagerSnake]

UT when u get here vote aristophanes.

[eagerSnake]

Says the guy not lynching ari

[eagerSnake]

Doesn't matter, one of them is scum and ari is scum. Farside would bus both buddies?

[eagerSnake]

Cool, hope vig kills you tonight. Everyone else, vote aristophanes.

[eagerSnake]

When ari flips don't worry, they will want to shoot you

[eagerSnake]

Because farside will have been on two scum lynches and you 0

[eagerSnake]

tl;dr: Aristophanes is scum, we're lynching him. Parama and CKD refuse (lol)

Its Ari, SC, and Far or Para methinks

VOTE: Aristophanes

Start here. I'm sure you can all use a break from Para/Far, so we'll get to that tomorrow

VOTE: aristophanes

VOTE: arti

VOTE: ari

VOTE: farside22

I am not voting him right now (or at all). am I scum?

[eagerSnake]

UT vote Aristophanes

[eagerSnake]

I'm tracker Aristophanes targetted greyice which he had no reason to do

GreyICE is extremely town. This is wonderful, as my last game with him he was very hard to lynch despite our

best

efforts.

[eagerSnake]

Parama is the other scum

[eagerSnake]

Another one bites the dust.

[eagerSnake]

Hey, Parama, I'm gonna get you too.

[eagerSnake]

Mfw people don't recognize an obvious day2 guilty

QFT and I'm the new-town

[eagerSnake]

Should've never fucked with the Wings of Fire.

[eagerSnake]

What claim would keep you from hammering Aristophanes lol

Why would he roleblock GreyICE? ("He's extremely town")
Why would he investigate GreyICE? (I'm in info role anyway)
He obviously didn't protect GreyICE. (He's dead.)

[eagerSnake]

Somebody hammer Aristophanes. Protective role on me, Killing role on Parama, I'll do my job.

[eagerSnake]

I was blocked. Carry on.

[eagerSnake]

Anyway I crumbed my role in my 2nd post of the game, look at the tracker wiki, first letters of the first 5 words, then look at my post again.

[eagerSnake]

Idk... do me a favor... ask mod what message is received on roleblock... im busy

[eagerSnake]

Nvm I'm off phone now I asked him