Wingdings

[Ranmaru]

Why is Wingdings even a thing?

[Ranmaru]

1. They allow players to

daytalk

who should not have that ability, and are therefore banned in my games.

They don't, actually. Anyone can communicate in the thread, and anyone can interpret something differently than others. What crumbs do is they give signals that the mafia or masons could have decided to give a meaning to, and then would use that in thread where everything is public, as you said. Then the other partner would read that signal and interpret that with the knowledge they have already gleaned from the private, legal chat qt. It's not a private exchange since the exchange is public between everyone, it's just that not everyone has the knowledge from the private thread they cannot access.

I'll only drop this if you or anyone else can prove that 'signaling' or bread-crumbing is equivalent to coding. Yet townies/scum have picked up breadcrumbs in the past so it doesn't mean it is not public access. It is possible to notice before they claim it, even though you or I may not notice it at first. I'm just saying this to challenge you, but I respect your decision anyway. Also, since scum can pick it up, it's possible that that scum notices it and can kill off the PR without anyone else noticing his crumbs at all. Meaning posting bread crumbs can be risky.

Well is softclaiming okay? You know, saying you townread or scumread someone heavily when you're cop?

Softclaiming seems ok because that is subjective. Language is subjective. What Date to me (09/27/2016) may be Date (mating interview) for you. What Bark to me (Woof!) may be Bark (Tree Skin) to you. What Bill to me (Money Owed) may be Bill (Pokemon Researcher) to you. What your townread to me (townread) may be a townread (cop scan) to you. It's still a townread to me and others and it means something entirely different to you and there is no rule against feeling a certain way about a read and being influenced by information from a role that you are playing.

If you die n1, it may indeed be the case that everyone will continue to interpret it as a regular read. For them to interpret like you do as (pr), you would have to outright claim your PR so they can trust your infomation, and so they can see why you would name him town there. That's not coding. That's simply lying (or omitting the strongest evidence of why you believe he is town purposely to secure the information in the public thread if you die) about why your read is a townread, and you are forcing a townread on your copscan to make it seem natural.

[Ranmaru]

They allow the exchange of private information without the other players even knowing that information is being exchanged. That's functionally equivalent to daytalk.

As an example: In a game I played a couple of years ago, I was a mafia role cop, and had claimed role cop publicly. I knew I was going to claim a fake guilty on a player, and I knew there was a significant risk of that play backfiring. So I decided a simple rule with my mafia partners: If my investigation that night was vanilla, I would start my first post that day with a vote. If my investigation showed powerrole, I would end my first post with a vote instead. There is simply no way for town to spot that difference. "Vote [player], I have a guilty" and "I have a guilty, therefore Vote [player]" are both completely logical ways to write such a post. Yet my scumpartners would get to know the most crucial part of my investigation. That is the equivalent of a private exchange of information.

Similarly, it is simply unfeasible to check every single post in a 50 page day 1 for possible breadcrumbs with multiple possible ways of signaling. Yet when a player points out a breadcrumb, it is relatively simple to check that it's there, and it's impossible for that to be accidental. Sure, breadcrumbs might be found from time to time, but that doesn't happen often. And when they don't get found, they have the exact same effect as cryptography: It's provable that you posted the information now, but the information only becomes public at a later time.

I feel that the information in the public thread should be deducible for other players. With signalling and breadcrumbing, that simply isn't the case.

I still disagree that it is a private exchange. The exchange of private information has already happened, in a private thread. The other players weren't present, and therefore would not know of what has been discussed, and won't understand the meaning behind the scums/masons posts, which makes sense. Example, if I naked voted a player, no player would understand the meaning of it. They can't deduce much from it unless I explain it later. Let's apply your example to mine. If I had a PR result, I'd use a naked vote. If I had vanilla result, I'd use a reason. I don't think that is against any rules.

Also, your example seems passable even by your own standards. I mean, that's one way to go around bread crumbing and it is legitimate. Everyone can see the vote, and read it. That is another example of subjective interpretation. The only thing that is present there is lying/omitting which is allowed, because mafia have to lie to survive. Plus, bread crumbing can be deciphered (most times) without having to learn how to read a bread crumb. Although I can give you that it isn't inherent for everyone, only for experienced players.

I wonder, how do you apply this as a rule? When and where do you enforce it? Is it possible to go around your ruling?

I'm grateful to have learned this before accidentally signing up for or replacing into one of your games.

It's not a big deal. At least, for me it isn't, since I rarely crumb.