I FREAKING HATE ALTS

[pirate mollie]

I want all alts to die in a screaming fiery pit of burning hell.

That is all.

[pirate mollie]

Sorry.

cheetos I deliberately waited to start this thread cos I didn't want you to feel like this all about you. we worked out our differences and I am glad.

I have an IRL friend who has an alt that has a posting that absolutely love, it is really funny and entertaining but he replaced into a game that I was scum in and I didn't know who he was at the time but it was obvs he knew me and rather well and it gave him a huge advantage wiped out my entire team in 3 days. and that is the problem I have with alts is that they have an advantage of knowing who you are and you not knowing them. I can understand if some1 wants to experiment with a different playstyle but I do not like the advantage that they have.

and this has happened so many times. I have also found myself in situations where I am forced to play with some1 that I wld rather avoid. sometimes I can figure them out but I really feel like it is a cowardly way dodge meta.

[pirate mollie]

some of my personal favourites have been:

mollie is alive on d3 she must be scum.
it is d3 and we haven't lynched scum yet so mollie is scum.
mollie isn't posting much so mollie must be scum.
mollie is posting TOO much so mollie is scum.
mollie changed the spelling of "hi guyz wats going on" so therefore mollie is scum.
mollie is using punctuation so is scum.
mollie hasn't gotten in any shit wars so mollie is scum.
mollie is being nice so mollie is scum.
mollie is being mean to me so mollie is scum.
mollie is misreading me so mollie is definitely scum.
mollie isn't bossing pple around so mollie is scum.
mollie isn't bullying any1 so mollie is scum.

Mollie's getting awfully defensive in this thread. Probably means she's scum.

and the list goes on and on. I mean these are things that ppl have

said.

but if it ever gets to the point where it bothers me I will probably go the route of thorella and add a section on my wiki ridiculing it, I am not going to create alt just avoid it. I understand where you guys are coming from I really do cos I get it too! it just doesn't change how I feel about alts.

[pirate mollie]

he replaced into a game that I was scum in and I didn't know who he was at the time but it was obvs he knew me and rather well and it gave him a huge advantage wiped out my entire team in 3 days

why does him being an alt matter then?

he came into the game with greater knowledge than I had. it was defo meta-based and he did a pretty freaking fantastic job of scything me down.

the only defense I cld come up with was wth. which is a piss poor defense and I know that, I was caught so off guard. I suppose I learned a good deal from it since it really made me pretty sensitive to certain arguments as to where I was scum and it gave me time to think about how to argue/counteract against them in future games.

I mean how do you argue against a good town argument. what I discovered is that you get creative!

the advantage is why I am arguing against alts tho!

[pirate mollie]

That can happen when someone who knows you replaces in with their main too. Pretty sure Charter did it too me once back in the day. He replaced in and I had played exactly to his perception of my scum meta to that point and I was scum and he drove my lynch in a game I was gonna win.

Edit: here it is:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10623

I just gave it a re-read and I was playing amazing until Charter replaced in. His case on me was weak, but I reacted poorly. If there was a reason I was scum there, it was my tunneling on CnT. Still though, he came in with quite a bit of meta on me and flipped my game that was near perfect until that point. He nailed my buddy who wasn't getting much attention as well. Oh and I'm a little creeped out that Yaw referenced ebola in 2009.

well

its...not the same thing.

this player slipped that he was an alt and it became really apparent that he knew me really well.

also that is just 1 example!

I am just going to go with that 2/3 of the site is composed of alts which just makes me a more paranoid freakshow of a player than I already was

[pirate mollie]

but I love triforce!

[pirate mollie]

wow

some jerks decided to hijack my thread and to make it about hydra hate and then troll cos...I don't know why.

if pple don't understand how some pple don't like being forced to play with pple who they wld not normally play with through means of deception then I don't know what to say. some alts are fine I guess.

it makes me sad

if you don't have anything constructive to add to this thread can you plz kindly fuck off and go troll somewhere else? I hear speakeasy is in need of some more shit threads so go there. the mods have been looking bored lately.

[pirate mollie]

ill give up alts if u give up hydras

this is what you said jordan (I am referring to 1 of your alts here).

it is a false equivalency and you know it since the issues that pple have with the 2 are entirely different except in the overlap of seekrit alt hydras. you were not interested in discussing anything but rather just trying to be contentious. for instance I am pretty sure you have no interest in giving up your alts and neither does vonny most likely.

there was really no point in saying this except to shit stir for your own amusement.

@ ranmaru

I didn't realize that question was directed at me and I am not sure how to answer it, really. cld you plz clarify it mebbe?

there are some alts I like, (I believe I have said this) cos the intent is clear that they are experimenting with an alternative playstyle. gilly is an example. and there are others. but usually its to avoid facing the meta music and a way to obtain permission to do exactly what they did before which led them to create an alt in the first place. I mean when when some1 complains about getting wotc-ed the popular solution is to tell them, "just create an alt". I dunno, mebbe its just me but I kinda think that is fucked up.

[pirate mollie]

ill give up alts if u give up hydras

this is what you said jordan (I am referring to 1 of your alts here).

it is a false equivalency and you know it since the issues that pple have with the 2 are entirely different except in the overlap of seekrit alt hydras. you were not interested in discussing anything but rather just trying to be contentious. for instance I am pretty sure you have no interest in giving up your alts and neither does vonny most likely.

there was really no point in saying this except to shit stir for your own amusement.

@ ranmaru

I didn't realize that question was directed at me and I am not sure how to answer it, really. cld you plz clarify it mebbe?

there are some alts I like, (I believe I have said this) cos the intent is clear that they are experimenting with an alternative playstyle. gilly is an example. and there are others. but usually its to avoid facing the meta music and a way to obtain permission to do exactly what they did before which led them to create an alt in the first place. I mean when when some1 complains about getting wotc-ed the popular solution is to tell them, "just create an alt". I dunno, mebbe its just me but I kinda think that is fucked up.

[pirate mollie]

Alts and hydras have a purpose. To me, they let me see filter out bias based on what players expect and get to the core of what players say. Baggage from game to game is minimized. If the player still encounters the same issue, it more likely than not is their style (unless the alt is exposed/seen through).

If you're doing it to avoid wotc, that isn't cool

. It means either the wotc system is broke or the player is not listening, most likely.

Hydras on the other hand, let players see how someone else approaches the same set of information. This, if done well, allows both players to grow as players in mafia games. Some tools I use lately have come out from hydras I have seen.

To be frank if you are using an alt to avoid wotc then it really doesn't matter.

Either

A, You go into your bad habits and then people get fed up with you and your alt also gets wotc'd.

B, You chill out with your bad habits with your alt. Since they don't have a problem with your alt you, just the original username that got wotc'd. There would be no issues.

a: this happens/ meanwhile iit costs pple a significant amount time and investment in the game which they might not have spent if they knew who they were dealing with in the first place.

b: the issue is that 1 player is going into stealth mode and entering the game with more info on players (presuming that they are familiar with the playerbase which is far more likely than not) than what they wld have on them. plz explain as to how this is an equal leveling playing field.

[pirate mollie]

it is a false equivalency

no it's not

the reasons people use hydras and hydras are bad are in generic sense about the same as those why people use alts and that use is problematic
both are tolerated because the trade-off is not quite indisputably obtrusive

I think you have done a fantastic job of ignoring titus's point here:

Hydras on the other hand, let players see how someone else approaches the same set of information. This, if done well, allows both players to grow as players in mafia games. Some tools I use lately have come out from hydras I have seen.

plz explain to me how an alt can approach the game with the same set of info and provide a mutual learning experience. cos even if the alt is masons with another player they still have more info than their mason partner unless they expose their alt.

stop conflating alt issues with hydra issues and mebbe a genuine discussion in which both parties reach an understanding of where the other is coming from can take place. saying arbitrarily that the 2 are the same doesn't work when you ignore the points that demonstrate how they are different.

eta:

disclaimer

: I like some alts.

[pirate mollie]

unduly hostile along with hypocritical

its okay to admit when you are wrong, psyche. I don't think anybody will think less of you.

@ ranmaru

I think I probably use meta in a different way than most pple. I don't do meta by pattern matching usually, I really more on how a person thinks and approaches the game. which to me is more reliable than pattern matching meta which is how most pple use it. is it accurate 100% of the time? nope, not even close. which is why it isn't the only tool that I use.

I recently lost a game where I

shld

have applied meta but didn't and it was only postgame that I remembered a personal tidbit in gd that wld have explained that person's actions at the time. unfortunately I didn't and I misread the player and cost town the game. if I wld have remembered it I wld have understood

why

this player was acting the way that they were acting. I wld have been more understanding and cld have worked around it but I didn't.

if you want me to pm the player's name, I will, but I need permission from the player first.

@ spyrella

I do see what you are saying about hydras and have said/supported that. issues with hydras and issues with alts are 2 different animals tho. there are a few hydras that I won't use again cos the disharmony is awful and it disrupts the game. but that is another discussion.

I can see a mod wanting to use an alt, just because there is an unconscious bias towards authority figures. I can see an all alt game. I can see some1 creating an alt as a fun schtick. or pple just like to explore different identities. none of those I have a problem with. I have changed my attitude around that from when I started this thread after talking to other pple about it. I just really don't like it when pple use alts to dodge meta, wotc and blacklisting reasons. its just my opinion.