Lets Talk Pen & Paper RPGs (All systems welcome!)

[Oman]

I'd like to play when I go back to Uni next year unless I find an interesting group locally. It's hard at the moment.

[Oman]

Been playing a 4th edition neverwinter campaign under 5th edition rules. It's a blast.

[Oman]

Fourth ed Neverwinter has slowed down a lot. We're hardly played in the last month. DM is pretty prescriptive. Not what I've been enjoying at all.

I'm itching to play FATE actually, but can't get anyone interested as they've all got other game commitments.

[Oman]

Sad to hear about your campaign, Oman.

Ah thanks for the sympathy, mate. TBH I haven't felt attached to the character because I haven't had any chance to flesh her out. There's a Mysterious Doom in The Shadows, which is nice and all, but it means that we're just reacting. "something was reported in the graveyard", "I guess we go to the graveyard then." Instead what my character would do it's more about what drives the story forward for the hook. Also, my DM got really incredulous when my hard-nosed paladin would blame a man for getting his brother killed (by taking him into a fight they were woefully unprepared for). That was really early though, the one that really shit me came much later. We got captured, he obviously had an idea of where we were going to go and under what circumstances and he wouldn't allow me the option to diplomacise our way out of it. He doesn't yes, and very well. In this cage a guy was like "can I fit between the bars" "no". "Could I bend the bars?" "No." "Can I teleport out of the cage?" "You could but there's guards everywhere and you'd just get recaptured." I dunno, when I run games I often just go "fuck yeah, let's give that a go!" If it sounds fun, just try it. Breaking a bar off to escape and using the bar as an improvised weapon to fight your way out sounds like an absolute blast.

Just overall feels like there's an overarching story and my character just kind of exists within it, instead of actually being a character in her own right.

[Oman]

Goddamn quadz that sounds like an amazing character quadz!

[Oman]

Let's talk about "modern day" settings. I've been talking with friends about Sci Fi RPGs, and I've been thinking about interesting Modern Day stuff myself. The interesting question is how would you frame it, how would you structure the mechanics etc?

There are three big questions that came up in our discussion:
1) How do you build a "big threat" that needs to be dealt with, without the answer being "the army takes care of it, or literally any large group of people that isn't four PCs"?
2) Can you include a feasible method of melee combat?
3) How do you add variety? Without magic, without "sci-fi" tech, how do you keep variety when...like guns. Just always guns. Because guns are the most effective way to eliminate an individual threat.

[Oman]

Oh and btw: I've read d20 modern and it makes me laugh more than anything Eh, that's probably a bit harsh. It's just DnD with a new skin, it's not a modern RPG.

[Oman]

I guess you're talking about "realistic" modern day settings?

Yes, sorry.

And thanks Claus, that's some solid thinking there.

[Oman]

One thing I really liked was making them operate under extremely limited information and seeing how they react.

When I DM with this I find it's a fine line to walk between "not enough information to make informed decisions" and "not information to prevent the party from sitting there waiting for more information". Just make sure you don't paralyse them

Side note: A pathfinder group I know lost their DM and I kinda want to step into it, but I am also kind of terrified cause they had an amazing DM a few months ago and I don't think I could live up to their glowing reviews of him.

[Oman]

RIP Bean level 1-5.

Truly a tale for the ages.


Sent out feelers for a DnD thing. No response.

[Oman]

Jesus shit, fudge those dice next time. Counterplay, Glork.

[Oman]

Oh right. Well that's okay.

RIP in Pepperonis.

[Oman]

Frog obviously

[Oman]

If you don't find a way to resurrect bean in the next session you're missing a great story opportunity.

I'm just needling man, sounds like you guys had a dope session.

[Oman]

Will playing the PC games help? We're about to start a campaign and I want to get more familiar with the system

No they won't and yes I'm jealous as fuck.

The systems are SO different between Shadowrun PC games and pen and paper. Super so different.

[Oman]

I am DMing my first DnD game in like...five years(?) on Wednesday. Friendly Local Gaming Store asked if I was willing to help after I mentored a dude or two during my first game in *forever*.

Level One, 5e, I'm pretty confident that I can run the game. The biggest concern I have is that I'll have a mix of experience (from never ever to pretty familiar) and that I may have up to seven players, which is a lot to give them all the time and focus they need to feel *awesome*. I also don't know any of them, so God knows what wild mix of player types I'll have.

I'll try to do a fun writeup, mostly focused on my own decision making and how that affects the players, and I how I can learn to be better. But overall I'm going to drown at least a little bit The key will be to keep that drowning at least a little secret.

DMs of MS.net, feel free to give me your best pieces of advice <3


As a side note I spoke to the store owner about joining her DM team and after the half-hour of chat she offered me a job as well. Christ.

[Oman]

Get to know your players,

This is the part I'm most concerned about. When you've got experienced players they can say "yeah I love investigations and I like combat to be quick" or "I'm all about the tactical wargame." And I can say "I'm a 'Yes' DM that looooves the Rule of Cool. You think of somethign to do and I'll do everything I can to make it happen, it might not always turn out the way you wish but it'll happen." There's like...a short-hand between you, in the language of the game. That's hard without a basis in the game.

[Oman]

-you cannot buy power with gold.

Magical weapons? Armour? Mercenaries? Spells? This seems counter intuitive.


And why no magical AC bonuses?

[Oman]

<3 I love you man, great advice.

[Oman]

Okay ran my first game today. Five players, one had played some 3rd edition D&D, one hadn't even seen Lord of the Rings, the rest were on zero D&D but familiar with fantasy tropes. Ran Suit of Mists 1 - Shooting stars or whatever dumb fucking thing it's called. Stolen Fire Wand

Absolute blast! They're so unique and think so wonderfully. I had to do a lot of prodding with my adventure hooks because they were all running Pregen'd characters and didn't have *motivations*. We got there in the end, through a fun DM substitute saying "maybe you could do this or talk to this person" just to edge them toward it. They eventually jumped in, had a blast. Claus I took your advice and gave them gold when they tried to bargain up the price.

New players play so differently and so interestingly. When faced with fire-thistles that they could jump over, they used the dragonborn's ice breath weapon to freeze them all. The fighter decided to play as a coward and might end up classing into bard because the front line is so dangerous, the barbarian grabbed bats and bit their heads off instead of attacking them. Everything was just my favourite. They were so smart and so dumb and their enthusiasm was phenomenal.

Things I really want to improve for next time: More character and personality to the town. I want them to love this place and see it as home and safety. And that I'm going to burn it to the ground, or just make leaving it a real emotional time.

Of the five characters, I got 3 AWESOME moments.
The barbarian ripped a bat in half with his teeth, a new player asked as the bat latched on to suck his blood "What do I roll to Ozzy Ozbourne?" Fucking stitches. He did it too! TWICE! He's keeping parts of bats as trophies and if he doesn't trophy everything he kills from now I'll be so angry. I'd really like it to play into a animal totem barbarian in the future.

The rogue found a cool thieves' cantstone - basically a small innocuous rock that is going to lead him to a treasure of some sort later on, this was one of my favourite moments. They convinced the townspeople to pool their gold to pay them and I said to the rogue "You spot something on the table that is worth something, but it's not valuable enough that anyone else spots it." and he goes "Something thievey? A key?" "Yeah, not a regular key though, a small stone that is marked with the thieves' cant. You know these can lead to easy marks, a good sale, or stashed goods." So now, two or three sessions down the road I can bring that up and give him a cool moment. It's a promise to be fulfilled.

The Dragonborn sorcerer was right at the end, the boy is being held aloft by wild magic and they can't think of a way to get him down. "You're not feeling the burn against your face like everyone else is, which is weird because you're usually much more sensitive to fire. It's like it passes over you, or around you instead." "I approach the boy" "Like standing in a wind tunnel, you can feel the energy around you, it's familiar, but distant. An arc of arcane power leaps from the tip of the broken wand and tickles your scales. If you had hair it might've put them on end, but all it does it kind of buzz your scale. You know this should be tearing you apart, but this chaotic magic is just...kind of harmless against you." "I reach up and press my hand through the force bubble around him and bring him down to the ground." "Your hand enters, or more accurately the bubble parts ahead of you, and when you touch him the boy is stilled." "i take the broken wand from him" "As you grasp both ends, you quiet the wand. It's rage may have been great for this young boy, but in your hands this is more like a toy. You cast more wild magic than this on a whim." And it was just this roleplay moment where I didn't actually know how they were going to turn this power off, and then I had this brainwave that the sorcerer could be unaffected and she just....oh man she leaned in so hard and was just enraptured by this idea that all of this arcane power was controllable, but only by her. The look in her eye was all of the reward I needed.


I would've loved to have gotten the other two good moments but if I can set up, or fulfill a promise for three of the five, I'm happy to take that as a win. The cleric is my next goal. She's the absolute newbie and she's been the POWERHOUSE in combat. I want to give her something divine that acknowledges that power or speaks to it somehow, maybe a mission from her god to smite some shit. She's just such a lovely enthusiastic girl and I want her to feel empowered and driven. Taking ideas on this


Um absolute blast. I really like my party, and I really can't wait for them to have some personal motivation and to start fulfilling some of this promises I've begun to make (and make so much more!). Taking down Strahd will be just one bonus.

[Oman]

Yeah I give out inspiration heaps. Whenever I'm impressed. I love the cleric idea about finding something she has to restore, to invest that time (though maybe not gold) and I think it's a good plan. I'll cut something up and give them a plan. Great idea

[Oman]

My second game had only two of my expected players. Which was frustrating. The team of five that we made up were okay but I was just on the back foot all game. Also it way three people who have never played before, and I just...didn't execute nearly as well as I wanted. I'm going into this one with a LOT more prep, especially for questions and character developments that I want to make.

My party also robbed a merchant and I want to punish them for it but I don't want to just say "you're good characters you don't do that" or "You're evil aligned now". Any suggestions on how to deal with player decisions that deviate from characters?

[Oman]

Do you want to punish the players or the characters, and why? Were they just being "LOL murderhobos!", or did they feel justified to do it for some reason?

I think it's a mix of the "shoot and loot" style of play mixed with a general perception of a lack of consequence. New players, not understanding that this world can and will have consequences.

Suit of Mists, they're tracking stolen Gemstones. They find them, being traded to a travelling merchant. They immediately set on them with weapons. The merchant tries to hide but his bodyguards fight back. They kill one of the bodyguards, get the surrender, then take anything of interest from the merchant's cart and all the gold that he has on him.

Because they're new players, I want to punish the characters because I want them to understand that A) actions have consequences in this world, and B) that the money they stole wasn't generated, it was taken from someone. I want to punish them so that it feels like a world, not like a playground for them to steal from and kick sand in people's eyes.

[Oman]

Claus thanks, you're a real peach

[Oman]

Playing in about 12 hours. I've got a lot of shit prepped. Starting to invoke the horror elements and give them their first glimpse of the big bad. Getting poker chips for better tracking of Inspiration. Getting literal biscuits to give out when people do interesting shit.

I'm gonna start incentivising behaviour.

[Oman]

Okay I don't know how much of this I'll get done on my phone while in line to vote but I started by deciding to give them some more information about who they're tracking. They were visited by dreams, which I'd printed out and given to them. One of them had an excellent reaction by being usure if she should confront the npc that she was given information on. It was beautiful to see that character and player hesitation. The sheets with the dreams on them I took off them after they read it, and so they were really struggling to recall details after an hour or so. Emulated dreams exactly how I wanted them to. Combat is starting to get more complex too.

Oh my inspiration points idea worked a treat. Using poker chips makes them all want them so much more! These guys are really getting themselves together. Character is starting to be developed, so hot.

We might not have everyone together for the next one so instead of running a finale or splitting the finale into two, I'm going to rub an event where they are going to build and define the big bad by interacting with the cursed residents of the village. I'm going to use seven deadly sins as a build point. More when I get home.

[Oman]

So I want to build this Big Bad out of aspects, kind of in a fate style, because I think this will be an investigation session. As I was saying I think I'll write for 5 or 7 aspects, with them discovering them through...doing different things. I'm not really sure exactly what. I'm thinking cursed village at the foot of this manor, the people of the village will give them information (i.e. allow the players to write the aspects).

So I want them to know: Who the cult is, Who their big bad is, What they want, What happens if they do get what they want, What happens if they don't get what they want, how to defeat them, and maybe one or two cool other facts. Something else you'll tell me.

I'm thinking a mix of puzzles, maybe one fight (maybe not), some investigation stuff, some (mis)fortune cookie events. Maybe let them find a map or a blueprint to the manor. Does anyone know a good investigation adventure they can link me that I can canabilise? I don't mind the system at all.

I'll be back once I've fleshed out my plan to rave about how much I think it'll work.

[Oman]

I'm thinking I might do it as a FATE or 4E style skill challenge. The complaint from my players so far is that they're not sure of how to combat outside of "I hit him with my sword". So I figure a skill challenge type of combat will be at least something interesting, but you're right, reinforcing the danger they face.

[Oman]

It all depends if you are doing map battles or not,

I am starting to do map battles as of this session, they're starting to get complicated enough.

Interesting terrain and interesting consequences will be the key. I think you're right there.

[Oman]

Okay so last week we ran the intermission/stake building session and it worked *REALLY WELL!*

So they're approaching the Death House and I decided to build a small dilapidated village at the foot of the Death House based on the five stages of grieving (death, get it?).

The first house they enter is Denial, a woman in her prime tending to a flower shop. From the outside the flower shop is falling apart, inside it's pristine and bright. She gives them information about what the village used to be like (which is how she sees it now). She talks about the children coming to her for flowers for their father's funeral. She gives them a date to anchor all the events to (about 2000 years before - like seriously FUCK Forgotten Realms calendar systems, I'm going rogue!) They talk to her a bit, take her outside where she is hit with the realisations of her reality and collapses to the floor. She's walked back inside and perks right up again, denying anything being wrong. Our Sorc detects magic, notices a lot of illusions everywhere, specifically on her and in the pot of a nearby flower. One of our barbs steals the sunflower and when they walk outside with it, it dies, the clay crumbles, the dirt molds, and the 2000 years hit it at once. Inside is a small magical parchment.

At this point I pass a piece of paper and a pen over to the Dwarf Barb and tell her she finds some information on the big bad! She writes "The Hipster King, our overlord, is weakened by the ashes of burnt vintage objects." (oh by the way, for some reason they've decided that being 2000 years in the past means this cult is full of ultimate hipsters. It's great theme and gives a lot of levity to a dark setting).

The second house is Anger. There's a fire inside so hot that the rain is steaming from their cloaks 20 feet out. By the time they're at the door they're sweating (except the tiefling who reports the situation as "pleasant"). The open the door to find a mountain of a half-orc (the term I used in my Australian game is "Half Orc, Half Brick Shithouse"). He and the fire seem to be linked, with the fire roaring as he yells, ebbing and flowing with his deep breaths. The orc drinks from a clear glass that is covered by his enormous fist but is later revealed to be a green bubbling acid-like substance. If they perceived well (they didn't) they'd see the parchment they're looking for in the bottom of it. The Half-Orc wants to be helpful but demands reparations. He reveals these adventurers aren't the last and he's sick of being beguiled, fought, and stolen from. He'll give them the information, but he demands some suitable amount of gold, items, or blood in return. The PCs were given the option to throw these into the fire as an offering, but instead the Bard casts Friends, charms the fucking pants off this fellow Half-Orc (I love my half-orc bard, you honestly can't imagine how much I love him, the player is p cute too) and gets given what he needs. The Orc smashes the glass into the table, giving the bard the parchment. The Barbarian (who has been drinking roadies all this time) pisses on the fire, flushing it down to coals and putting the Half-Orc into a deep sleep (which was an alternative solution, I guess )

I give the Bard a piece of paper and pen and receive back "The King bears pink skin as strong as steel and armoured scales as brittle as autumn leaves." (Have I mentioned how much I love my Bard?!)

The next is bargaining. They enter a guild hall and are given the option to one vs one duel a big dwarf blacksmith and a lithe half-elf rogue. This was played as a 4e-type Skill Challenge with the dueler's making strength checks to knock their opponent down, athletics to get higher ground, arcana checks to create illusions to distract, all that kind of stuff. Really cool to see them thinking of different ways to solve the combat problem ("Prestidigitation says I can soil an area of 1m^2. Does that mean I can soil the grip of her greatsword and make it so slippery she'll drop it?" "FUCK YES IT DOES ARCANA CHECK PLZ!"). Did it with 6 successes before 6 failures, and they ended up winning 6:5. I gave them all some weak magic items (One unreplenishable charge of a first level spell, or +1 to a specific check, or something like that) just putting 9 on the table and letting them each pick the one they wanted. Didn't get as much from this as I'd wanted. Maybe I needed to hype the items more. Hmmm.

Gave the rogue (who had spent her successes sneaking and climbing up on to the mantle to retrieve the parchment she spotted during the fight) the pen and paper and got "Just a real bad guy - Vegan, - Grew up in the dark." By the way the rogue and I are flirting and she's super cute.

Next was Depression. They find themselves in an empty library with a code scratched on a mirror. The code leads to the title of a book in which they'll find what they want. The mirror is partly the clue, but as they got a little stuck and started exploring they found the library was perfectly symmetrical, with mirrors on either side. Looking through they can line up the letters indicating the contents of the racks so that it shows a clear Atbash cypher (z=a y=b x=c etc). Half the group solved it without that clue! Very impressed. Gave the cleric and other barbarian (who were the first to solve it) the parchment that they found in the book it led to, received: "The Hipster King long ago abandoned his throne, taking his two beasts, Insta and Gram."

Finally acceptance. They walk into the non-descript guardhouse (defined entirely by being non-descript in a beautiful, though dilapidated town). The guy inside is what remains of the militia. He's a jolly round-faced guy. Think of the police in Sherlock Holmes stories but with more laughter. He's aware of everything that's going on. It's his job to prep the adventurers. That's what he does. He gives them supplies and, of course, a piece of parchment. After he gives them the envelope he opens another drawer, takes out another piece of parchment, puts it in another envelope and places it in the first drawer (for the next adventurers to arrive). I spoke a lot about how they weren't the first, and may not be the last, setting the stakes that failure is a very real possibility for them. My sorcerer writes the last one "I turn your darkest fears into reality. Also I'm, like, super fond of cats."

They spend the night in the cells of the guardhouse, looking up at the house, watching as the windows shift toward them, the door creaks open and the house eagerly inhales.



Overall a really good session, the cards-as-aspects thing is stolen from FATE and worked great to get involvement. They're all super ready to take down this horrible vegan hipster king, and I'm eager to watch them.

I've got an hour before my flight now, going through Death House and figuring out which rooms I want them to encounter and which are boring. Figuring out maps, and of course, doing the final designs of the Hipster King. This is the final sesh so I need a nice epilogue/satisfying conclusion, I've got some ideas about them coming out and seeing the residents of the town acknowledging what they've done, feeling their curses lifting from them, and then the town vanishing away.

TL;DR BIG LESSONS:

• I found a really good result telling players what the stakes were. "He is happy to work with you, but he want reparations." "They will fight you, not a fight to the death but a display of skill. You won't be killing these two, but you'll be displaying how much better you are at fighting than they are." And I'm going to start this one with "Don't be mistaken, these stakes are for the (world, region, collapse of an ultimate evil)."
  
• More player interaction is always better. Giving them the option to design their own baddie is something I'd like to do session one, but more collaboratively, so that the tone isn't as discordant as this one.
  
• Learning what to tell them at the start and what to hide. In this one I said "this is how the curse works. You'll all be getting cursed this session to allow you to enter the mists. You'll be visiting a series of people who will all give you information on the big bad and YOU'LL be the ones writing that information. Start thinking now." I hid that it was about the five stages of grief until we'd hit depression, then I challenged the psych student and she didn't piece it together. As soon as I told them I got this really satisfying "ooooh!" "YES! Denial, anger." and it made that last room really easy because when they asked questions I just said "he's acceptance. He accepts. This is his job and he does it. He doesn't care if you succeed or fail, that's out of his sphere of influence" and they just understood the character from the outset. Some stuff is good to hide, some stuff is necessary to tell them up front.

---

*****

---

Claus I'm really interested in the ESL thing and the specific struggles that gives you. Players bummed at not being able to express themselves is rough, I've very interested in how that is going to affect how he works to express his goals in the future. Keep us updated on that

[Oman]

We have a DM skillshare event at my FLGS, and I've been asked to run the next one.

We've had one so far, and it was a really good intro: How to run a table, how to interpret written adventures, how to run combat, how to ask players for actions and push them without railroading, that sort of stuff.

What do you think I could talk on in my session? What information do you think needs to be shared to more DMs in the world? For scope I will be talking to mostly new DMs, with a game or two under their belt, or players interested in DMing.

[Oman]

In short, "talk to your players about what they want out of a game".

I formalise this a lot more than other DMs, and I think it'd be great to talk about that too. You're awesome

[Oman]

magic-user/stealthy guy,

5e? Arcane trickster? I've always wanted to play a mix like that.

[Oman]

Oh of course, sorry I forgot we'd already discussed SLA Industries. It sounds amazing.

[Oman]

^ I love this.

Started a new group. All newbies except for one. They're doing a campaign where this emperor died, monsters roamed the earth and the gods stopped supporting the people. In response to the power vacuum this iron fisted baron rises up, conscripts some of the bored and scared populace, and starts to "control" the land. Including removing, disempowering, up to an including killing the non-human races ("Make The Empire Great Again" is a constant joke, as is the tiny hands of the Baron).

They've fought a small package of the Baron's guards to ease the players into mechanics, met some gypsies (I'm a fucking hack so I'm reusing this gypsy family from the other campaign because I know them and like them), and have helped to bury the old gypsy Mama, earning the debt and love of the rest of this now tiny elven family. Some cool things have happened, our Halfling Rogue has befriended a fox terrier and is teaching him tricks. He's asked me to guide him on stats because he wants to make his dog into a character of the story (I plan to kill the dog as part of the deep dark act two to inspire their final surge against the Big Bad, they all love this cute fucking terrier).

Our other rogue is based on a spellcasting character, so she's desperate for spells and arcane trickster stuff. I really want to give it to her, but I don't know what spells I can give her that will feel impactful without starting to unbalance her. I'm going to be blessing all of the characters and giving them *something* to make them feel different, so I'll definitely take ideas on that if anyone can think of it. I want it to be something that makes them feel great for having done it, I've been thinking everything from +1 weapons, or ACs or extra health. It's the Goddess of Shelter, Welfare, and the Less Fortunate, if that can help you guide thematics.

next they're heading to a coastal town (one of the players is a sailor so that's coming into it) and they'll be told about a wizard's tower, which is actually just a lighthouse, but has a wizard living in it. I want to set up a scene where one of the Baron's ships will have the gunpowder section set ablaze, and they can choose to scuttle it, sending three of the baron's sailors to the depths, or rescue them and risk the ship exploding and taking half the town with it. A few of the characters are "greatest good" and a few are "every life is sacred" so I'm really interested to see what they decide.

[Oman]

Can you speak to your hesitation re:the pet getting stats? Familiars do it, I can't see it being a big problem? But then again I've never done it so I'd love to hear the concern.

but I'm having trouble with the GM shooting down my ideas.

In my experience this is worth speaking to the GM aside about and being specific about the problem AND your solution.

The conversation that I would have is: "My vision for my character is to really use a lot of the melding through walls ability. It feels impactful and I like the story that it's telling. The problem is that I'm hearing 'no' a lot from you, so it seems like our understanding of the character and his/her impact is misaligned. Can you explain to me where you see my character fitting in?"
Then just listen for a bit. If you hear something good that's great. If you disagree on everything that's okay too. Once they're done talking you say:
"That's awesome because you mentioned some stuff that is just perfect, exactly what I want like *INSERT AGREEABLE STATEMENT*. I would like to add to that this other segment. However, the power that you're expressing from the stats bolstering just....doesn't click with me. Is there any chance I can give up that power, or otherwise limit it, in exchange for focusing my character more down the etheral nature of this wall-blending thing?"

Then listen. And see what your GMs real core issue is. Then target that. It's a big conversation, but it sounds like it's worth attacking. I'd be really interested to hear what the issue is and how it resolves. It sounds just horrible to have that player agency taken away from you.


EDIT: I also loved your idea about rolling each relevant stat ONCE. I have a huge problem with the PCs walking into a room and saying "everyone roll perception" then afterwards "Everyone roll Investigation" and basically being guaranteed that one person will succeed. Maybe work on like a balance system where certain things need X number of success to find rather than just X DC. Or need less than Y failures? Hmmm an interesting thought to ponder.

[Oman]

Hey Oman, how did your workshop go?

It's not for like a month or two. Probably five weeks from now.

[Oman]

The moment that the pet gets stats and the players use it to fight, it is no long a pet, is another character. Just keep that in mind.

I do not see a problem except that you think it's unfair to narrative-kill a character?

[Oman]

As far as I'm concerned that's a valid expectation for a PC, but not for a terrier. We did a lot of expectation management at the start, but yes it'd be something that I would discuss with the player that owned him, probably not the others though.

[Oman]

How do I manage those expectations without saying outright "this is what's happening?"

[Oman]

Well. We had our session. It was the first one I've ever gone into completely improv. It was fucking amazing and I had a blast. I let the PCs run almost all of it. So they're in this town, enemy army marching towards them. They set up this ambush and a deceit and I just gave them a bug enough rock for their wave to crash against. A mage, a warlock, and three sections of enemy troops. They a red the townspeople and led this battle. The enemy casters focused mostly on spells like darkness, hold person, and colour spray. They actually didn't do much damage at all, but they still felt powerful. Which was a good thing. I think the more I get away from the monster manual and the more I think "what is the design of enemy I want" and get away from hit points and say "what is the most dramatic moment that they can die." our ranger crit one guy, but rolled low on his damage, so the guy still had 4 HP left I just killed him there anyway because shiiit he deserves the win.

[Oman]

Combat became: Enemies rolled to see if they hit, War machine rolled to see how many it killed, I rolled to see if I could capture the best and bloodiest shot.

I fucking...pray for the day I get something this good. Omg you're amazing.

D&D 5th is starting to get really good for this group. It sucks that I always feel comfortable with a group right before they finish their six week run with me


I rly wanna read the new Storm Kings adventure. Anyone else?

[Oman]

Yeah, having a long-standing gaming group does provide that real comfort zone of being able to play things differently. Do you ever feel bored of them? Like you know what they're going to do?

BTW, what do you mean by "six week run with you"? Is this some sort of rotating table arrangement?

Yeah I run six weeks worth of weekly games for a group of newbies at my local games store. I'm honestly liking this group enough to continue with them, but I'll have to have a chat with the store runner about it. We do provide a good service for the community, and that's really nice, but it's a LOT of effort teaching six new people how to play D&D every two months.

EDIT: Yeah new adventure from Wizards. Norse mythology, a lot of gods and giants. I know nothing else about it, but I'm excited. Curse of Strahd was really good (not escape from Ravenloft good, but good).

[Oman]

I loved 4e except for the fact that i needed minis and I've never had a minis collection (but am thinking about building one). I use skill challenges a fair bit now and they're always a blast.

[Oman]

Uh tbh I've used my own number of success and failures anyway. Usually I want a skill challenge to last two to three "turns" (i.e. goes around the table), so I go for Number of players = number of successes, or I go for number of players * 1.5 If I want it to feel really epic I'll make it number of players *2 but I've literally never felt the need to do that. Then in terms of failures I just say either half the number of successes, or 75%. Sometimes I won't tell my players how many failures they can get and I'll just pick the most narritavely interesting time (when they've got two successes left, usually) and say "I just wanted to let you know you'll need two successes before you get two failures".

Full disclosure, I like to use rules as a baseline, or as a bit of structure. The bits in the middle, well that's the fun. The PCs expect to win, they've told me that. They expect me to challenge them. So if I throw them a big baddie and they surprise him so he can't summon his skelingtons, then they crit him twice and he dies immediately...well...that's not meeting the player's expectations. Similarly if they get crit at level 1 and die...well that's violating our contract. So I like to fudge a lot. As an experiment (after hearing it on Fear the Boot) I tried a game where I didn't even count NPC hit points and OMG it went so well. Number of success and failures in the DMG does not bother me one bit.

[Oman]

That is neat. is it a paid gig? The game store where I play has something similar, where they house tables for newbies.

$40 worth of store credit every six weeks. It's a nice token of their appreciation. And having newbies lets me flex muscles that you don't have to with established players. That gets tiresome though.

[Oman]

So I'm going to continue with my current group. Not sure what to do for the adventure though. I don't want to homebrew the whole thing, it's just too much work for me.

I'm also writing a survey thing for my players, we're going to do a 0th session planning session, but I've never done one of those before (cause I've always run with whatever the DM had planned and whatever characters were brought). Has anyone (Claus) done this before and do they have any ideas?

[Oman]

Also stealing the skittles thing. About to start Curse of Strahd (5e Ravenloft horror) so this will be great.

My group is about to do their finale. The local military has been overtaken by a Warlock summoning demons that he sees as new Gods. The PCs are entering the keep in which he is summoning, and will come across his ritual. I've drawn up the combat that I want to do for the finale (a little 4e inspired, in a good way) which has two monsters that will control the party's movement and try to push them into teleporting traps, two monsters which are just going to do the aoe damage, and one which is a get-in-the-face bruiser. Then there'll be a big tanky enemy which is to soak damage and draw attention. Behind them all is the evil baddie in a stasis bubble, doing his casting.

It's going to be a big, assymetrical, interesting fight (I hope!) drawing all of the PC's power (and, yeah if I kill someone in this fight I'm okay with that). As they reach in to remove the bone that is continuing the summon, their bodies will age. Flesh will strip from their fingers. The god which has been looking after them and mentoring them will recognise that they have killed many to get here. That they are merchants of death. Death in service to good, but still death. That their interference will cause only further death, for where there is darkness, this demon/ritual will pull it from them. Then Morty, the little terrier that has been travelling with them, being the only truly innocent member of the party, will just stroll into the bubble and hit the off switch. Sitting proudly with a silly grin and his tongue hanging out, as their plane of existence is saved by their favourite character.

I've got big plans for this finale, and I'm excited to see how it goes. Spending the weekend drawing out maps and making sure the promises are fulfilled, making sure the combats are fun and I have some plans. Then we do a session 0, then start Strahd

[Oman]

Chaotic people are so much more interesting that lawful by a million

I disagree and I think this comes from the most surface readings of the alignments.

Lawful people have internal conflict. They struggle to do whats right. But what if tbeir dogma is held in opposition of itself? What if the lawful must fight the good or evil in them? What if their own laws declare them to be unlawful!? That is the difference between lazy lawful and deep lawful. That's the difference between lawful stupid and a person.

Chaotic characters have external conflict. Their chaos automatically sets them at odds with The Man, or anyone around them. That's...to me not as interesting. "I'm a chaotic neutral thief who takes what I want." yaaawn. That's not interesting. It'll create conflict but not interesting conflict. "this is the orphanage's medical money" "lol stealing chaotic remember." is just as lame as "you are hidden from sight. The 10-levels-higher-than-you-Baddie jaywalks" "I immediately run out from our safe hiding place and smite him. I'm lawful!" They both describe situations where they're not thinking of all the considerations when they ask themselves what their character would do.

One thing I like to say to my players re alignments is: Good people do bad things. Lawful people break laws. Chaotic people keep their word. Evil people help others. Not always. Not as a rule or a bond, but sometimes in some scenarios. We are not defined by perfection, by whole alignment to our dogmas, we are defined by our intentions, and what we mostly do when we have a choice. We as people are defined by our edge cases, the choices we make, and the times we get it wrong.

One of my favourite examples is the Chaotic Good Mal. He's good at heart, he's definitely out from under the law, but sometimes he works within those rules. In The Train Job:
Sheriff Bourne: You were truthful back in town. These are tough times. A man can get a job. He might not look too close at what that job is. But a man learns all the details of a situation like ours... well... then he has a choice.
Mal: I don't believe he does.

Mal puts his goodness about the chaotic nature of his person but sometimes.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
[lightly stabs Atherton with the sword]
Mal: Guess I'm just a good man.
[stabs him again]
Mal: Well, I'm all right.

Mal puts his humanity, his anger, and want for revenge above that compassion. Opposites. Conflict. That's depth.


Characters are interesting when there is conflict. Storytelling 101, right? If your lawful characters aren't having interesting fun conflict revolving around their lawfulness, the story isn't taking advantage of a realised, deep, flawed character. Right now in my group the lawful neutral cleric and lawful good paladin are at odds with each other because the cleric believes the price of delivering death is receiving death (a flaw regarding him holding grudges). And the paladin believes every life deserves a chance for redemption (his primary bond centred on his own redemption). Lawful. Different interpretations. Conflict. Interesting. Super interesting.


I understand that some people just find chaos more fun ("I follow rules all day, playing games is my chance to break them") but yeah... I dunno. I feel like a lot of us sell the lawful short because we don't remember that the guy who shoplifts an iPhone he can't afford is probably still mostly lawful.

And Vi, I loved what you wrote. I like thinking about it. Thank you for taking the time to write it out for us.

[Oman]

I honestly find in 5e that flaws, bonds, and whatever the other one is more than enough. Boiling that down to two words on a two axis scale is weird. I think I'm with you Claus

[Oman]

All the DMs are my local store are drawing their parties and looking amazing and I'm just like "Uhhh well I see myself as more of a worldbuilder..."

[Oman]

I start curse of strahd in 5 days!

[Oman]

Wow, that's amazing!

[Oman]

Absolutely! Getting them back on the book is going to ease your load immesurably. I'd just be honest with them if they call you out on them being pushed back to the story.

[Oman]

Kay. Don't prep. Get better at improvising Start giving the players more narrative control, questions like "tell me about that" "What would it look like" "and you recognise them, who is it?"

That takes the work out your hands. Does that help?

[Oman]

Can you talk through what it is that you'll prep for each session? Are you drawing maps? how detailed are you prepping your NPCs?

[Oman]

I'm very possibly still doing less than a DM who has his own campaign world, It's just a lot more work than it used to be.

Eh. Who cares about other tables, it's about you.

Firstly, don't stress too much about custom dungeons. Build generic dungeons that you can SKIN to look like what you need them to. When it comes to NPCs and baddies, I tend to just pick a monster from the manual that's similar and reskin them into the NPC, easing my workload.

Reading the book ahead a couple of times is a very true thing, and I don't have a solution for you other than be less worried about the relevant chapter. Read it once, noting down stuff you like. Then get into the game and let the player's wildness dictate where you go, working off that list of cool stuff just as ideas when you need them.

It sounds like you're doing the right stuff for your NPCs, I'd recommend doing that for your dungeons. OR don't see your custom dungeons as wasted work. Just start getting a pile of stuff you'd made that haven't used (and so when they stumble on the dungeon, just pull out one you've prepared earlier).

[Oman]

Something that DMs need to do more is talk OOC to their players:

"Look guys, I know your characters can figure out some reason for not wanting to go to this dungeon, but this is the game that I have prepped for you guys tonight. If your characters don't go to the dungeon, the mayor will have another group of adventurers go in your place, and I will just give you THEIR character sheets to play with. Which do you want?"

Absolutely! Sometimes I just say to my players "This is a game. The story is this way."

[Oman]

Run my first Strahd game and almost had the party infighting about what was the morally right thing to do.

I like Curse of Strahd.

[Oman]

Okay so my Strahd game so far. Warning Curse of Strahd spoilers, definitely.

Vagnar the dwarven thunder cleric of Trithereon stands atop the castle they have just liberated from the clutches of Thrax. Mist swirls around him. He's distracted by horrifying visions of a nearby town in flames, which dissipate quickly. What doesn't dissipate is the uncomfortable mist which leaks into his lungs before he passes out.

Sir Menderallen (a human fighter of some renown) is sent by the local Duchess for whom he serves to visit a nearby camp of gypsies and convince them to move on (whether by diplomacy or force). Upon meeting the gypsies, they are incredibly happy to see the knight, and tell him the story of the brave prince who has been cursed. They also pass on a story of a Damsel in Distress, which is enough to get Sir Allen involved.

Grandpa (a twenty year old street urchin fighter who has taken a warlock pact with the fey) is sitting in a tavern when a large gentleman walks up and slams a letter down on the table. "Blood of the Vine Tavern. Three days north and through the woods. Be there." The stranger spots a large cook wielding an enormous meat cleaver (Spud, the barbarian) and says "bring your big friend. You'll need him."

(Mercy the H/orc Paladin will be rejoining us next session)

They arrive at the Blood of the Vine to find Vagnar comatose under the table. While it doesn't take much to bring him to, their order for water is delayed by an argument between the barkeep and Vavasour En-men-der-anna (a bardic diplomat from the nearby village of Vallaki). Ismark (the barkeep) wants nothing to do with the Vavasour's stupid festivals and has things to focus on back at home. Ismark recognises the newcomers as "Outsiders" and pulls them together, offering coin if they meet him at the mansion nearby. Vavasour Anna is excited by the idea, and is kind of swayed that maybe there's more to this valley than another festival.

The team head to the mansion, meeting the confused Ireena and the dead Kolyan. Trying to beat nightfall they carry the body of the Mayor to the church and convince the worn priest to bury the body. On return they investigate and find the priest's son, a man once, but now an emaciated vampire spawn. Without a plan on how to cure him, or even (worst case scenario) to kill him, he has kept him trapped in this small room and starved of blood.

The party approach the son, who lashes out once cornered. This is where things got interesting. Half the #squad wanted to protect the child, find a way to save him. The other half wanted to destroy the evil at any cost, the means justifying the ends. Our cleric used his last level 2 slot to cast "gust of wind" trying to push people away. The barbarian went into a rage and attempted to "non-lethally choke the kid". They fight him enough to kill the spawn, but not to destroy it. As the body lays there headless, Ismark (who is described as 'that guy in the office who is so very ready for the zombie apocalypse', loaded for bear with weapons and tools) places a steak through the heart. Despite not being in the vampires's 'resting spot" it doesn't kill him, but it does paralyse him. They sit worrying and decide to rest inside the church, Vagnar staying awake to provide watch in his own regrets as his team sleep.


I'm excited. The moral ambiguity has tickled them all.

[Oman]

Curse of Strahd: My party is taking Ireena to Vallaki so that she can hide from Strahd's gaze...maybe. With them is her brother Ismark, who has been training for most of his life to kill Strahd. He is strong, prepared, and an ally they're glad to have. The whole time they're taught that no one says the Dread Lord's name because it can draw his attention. And Ismark tells them NOT to give out his and Ireena's names. They're trying to move with stealth. The players know that the characters believe that names have power.
They come across an old man being attacked by 4 wolves. The wolves breathe the fog of barovia over them and almost kill a few characters. They do hero things and crit a lot! Slaying the wolves, defending the man, and high five each other over their victory.

They save the old man, stabalise his bleeding! Splint his broken legs and carry him away on a cart they've had with them. They decide whether to camp before or at the Vistani campsite. They pick before, not trusting the Vistani, sitting in the woods around a fire.

As a few of them engage with him and help him, he acknowledges how wonderful they are and asks their name "*cough* thank you kind hero. Who are you? Who do you serve?". When they give their name he holds their hand, his eyes light up, and he says "'thank you', in the most genuine way you've ever heard". Vagnar the Storm Cleric is the only one who insight checks the old man. Rolls a 5.

So around this camp fire at night they hear a wolves howl and they all roll wisdom saves. This is a screen, only Mercy the paladin sitting next to the old man was the target. She fails and is charmed.
He turns to Mercy and blood dribbles down his mouth. "water. Please". Mercy leans over to get water and as soon as she's distracted, the old man grabs Ismark's hair and chin and breaks his neck. Kills him instantly. I roll a crit and a regular hit, enough dice to massive-damage him mechanically. Narratively, I got lucky, cause I would have said whatever dice I rolled was enough.
The whole table just goes "WHAT!?" Mykel stands up and yells "SPUD GOES INTO A RAGE. CAN I KILL HIM NOW?!" No one knows what's going on. Roll initiative.

Then they leap at this old guy. Spud chokes him. Mercy smites him. Four characters unload everything they have on their turns. On his turn he laughs, and with a thick german accent says "Mercy, Vagnar, Sir Menderallen, Enmenderana. Thank you. I'm sure that I'll see you so very soon." My group says "FUCK! THIS IS STRAHD!?!" And he explodes into a cloud of bats which fly off into the night.

The guy playing Mercy asks "okay so what did he look...like, hurt? Like, did I do a quarter of his health? I crit (half/orc savage crit) with smite!" I say "No. He barely looked bothered by your attack." The whole group just goes "how are we meant to fight this guy?" "There's no way." "We are fucked!" "Sure could use a vampire Hunter right now and not a fucking corpse!"

It was perfect. We had to take a break just for everyone to get their heads back into it. Strahd has appeared in the campaign in the best way, and I live for moments like this. I have never had a moment so perfect in my DMing history. And the best part was that all of the players agree that it was their fault. They trusted the NPC, they left him next to Ismark, they failed insight and wisdom saves. This was their fault, and they feel responsible.

[Oman]

I killed my first character. God damn yes.

[Oman]

Come on Oman, you will really leave at that, and not give us the juicy details?

Curse of Strahd he went upstairs into a coffin room on his own and was swamped by two Vampire spawn (easy as a team, deadly on his own). He went down and the rest of the party cleaned them up, but not before he failed his death saving throws. Felt p good cause he was like "yep, that was my fault."

Second character died during a huge deadly encounter against a demon, and two elementals. Got pretty huge, in fact we played that one combat encounter as a whole session. He absolutely would've been fine but he Nat One'd a death save which was pretty wild. Really fun, and the players loved it.


PAX AUS! Played FATE for the first time and fucking LOVED it, just had a great group, complicated our lives INCREDIBLY and fought through the whole thing. I think everyone had a moment to shine, driven by the players rather the GM, which...yeah I was really pleased and proud to have been a part of it.

Played SLA Industries and...it felt like a d10 version of D&D tbh. Not particularly interesting, but the GM was running that game for the first time (No playtesting), so it went way over time, we missed a lot of fun information, and just overall I felt pretty let down. Did speak to the GM afterwards though and he apologised without prompting so I think we can understand it was just a perfect storm of things-not-working.

Curse of Strahd still plugging away. It's feeling a bit stale in Vallaki right now, but we're going to move outside. I'm overall starting to sour on the Strahd storyline. Not because it's bad or anything, but just because there feels like there's too much in the book, and the big setpieces are the fun ones.

[Oman]

Okay I'm back into Curse Of Strahd. They left Vallaki and the joke about one the werewolves flirting with the Half-Orc has turned into a FULL BLOWN WEREWOLF LOVE TRIANGLE.

I adore my party.

[Oman]

I'm interested just to try out Roll20. Probably too buy to take up GMing.

I've added One-shots to my events now, doing FATE, Dungeon World, and others to spread knowledge around the group.

[Oman]

Has anyone every recorded their session as a DM and listened to it back? It's...humbling as fuck!

[Oman]

That makes sense. Also man, helping the PCs make their characters (via giving suggestions when they get stuck) is actually lots of fun.

The best way to help people make characters is to ask questions, then build on the answers. Get them thinking about their own characters from angles they don't expect.

I'm keeping a few thoughts on RPGs as I play, it's been a good notebook so far. I recommend taking notes, it'll make you a better DM.

[Oman]

Dogs in the Vineyard added. Four Tabletop RPGs played in 2017 so far.

Next up is either Dungeon World or Apocalypse World.

[Oman]

Strahd can and does pull his punches on the party early. But he makes it known. He laughs at them. He calls them weak. He is thoroughly unimpressed. And he takes stuff for later: Their hair, their weapons (best after death house when they can get new ones), and for one of my players he took a finger. The wolves, under his employ, will avoid kills as well. Strahd then uses that hair later to empower his scrying spells against the party, or if you'd prefer, any spells against the party.

Have Strahd destroy them, knock them all out, and then walk away laughing at them with all of their gold, or the cleric's holy symbol, or the paladin's shield. That's what he's meant to do, he's oppressive, and they should fear him.