Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:50 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:06 amLegit it was the exact thing he was mislynched for. I'm hoping he'll contribute this time, but I understand if he doesn't.


If he was mislynched for his play before, why do you think he's doing the exact same thing this time around?
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:54 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:50 am
Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:06 amLegit it was the exact thing he was mislynched for. I'm hoping he'll contribute this time, but I understand if he doesn't.


If he was mislynched for his play before, why do you think he's doing the exact same thing this time around?

He obviously hasn't learned the lesson.
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:13 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:36 am
Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:33 am
eagerSnake wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:22 amLUV, they're trying to run you up to L-1 right now, if you could tell me which one of them is scum and which one is mislead town that'd be great.


I don't have any reads right now but I'm a little suspicious of Implosion.


Why?


For the same reason Gamma pointed out and is currently voting him for.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:15 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Shadow_step wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:52 amLooks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

Zoronos wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:54 am
Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:41 amOh just the fact LUV did this last game I played with him.


Playing completely absent annoys me, but something being annoying doesn't make it scum. But it also doesn't make me really want to jump in front of a train and yell "No this is wrong don't lynch it" and I really love doing that, so give me something to work with if this is your sincerely held belief.


Why does it seem like you're implying I'm not paying attention to what's being said or done?
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:26 am

Post by MariaR »

VOTE: Zoronos

Best vote atm I haven't liked any of his posts to put it in a simple answer.
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:32 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Okay looking back at that no-claim thing mafia did it more it seems. I'm not quite sure what this means for Eager so I'll wait for Grendel's opinions on the matter.
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:41 am

Post by Zoronos »

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:15 am
Shadow_step wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:52 amLooks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

Zoronos wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:54 am
Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:41 amOh just the fact LUV did this last game I played with him.


Playing completely absent annoys me, but something being annoying doesn't make it scum. But it also doesn't make me really want to jump in front of a train and yell "No this is wrong don't lynch it" and I really love doing that, so give me something to work with if this is your sincerely held belief.


Why does it seem like you're implying I'm not paying attention to what's being said or done?


That's not what I said. I said you were absent. And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop; having no opinions or contributions of your own is frustrating.
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:45 am

Post by boring »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:32 amOkay looking back at that no-claim thing mafia did it more it seems. I'm not quite sure what this means for Eager so I'll wait for Grendel's opinions on the matter.
This appears to be an insider-only train of thought. Are you planning to share with the rest of the class once you get an answer from Grendel?
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:47 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

boring wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:45 am
Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:32 amOkay looking back at that no-claim thing mafia did it more it seems. I'm not quite sure what this means for Eager so I'll wait for Grendel's opinions on the matter.
This appears to be an insider-only train of thought. Are you planning to share with the rest of the class once you get an answer from Grendel?

Absolutely.
I think I’m done with emotions as a weapon.

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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:47 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Zoronos is probably town
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:49 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Off to class; see you all tomorrow.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:53 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Zoronos wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:41 am
Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:15 am
Shadow_step wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:52 amLooks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

Zoronos wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:54 am
Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:41 amOh just the fact LUV did this last game I played with him.


Playing completely absent annoys me, but something being annoying doesn't make it scum. But it also doesn't make me really want to jump in front of a train and yell "No this is wrong don't lynch it" and I really love doing that, so give me something to work with if this is your sincerely held belief.


Why does it seem like you're implying I'm not paying attention to what's being said or done?


That's not what I said. I said you were absent. And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop; having no opinions or contributions of your own is frustrating.


That's exactly what absent means last time I checked. You seem upset. Are you having a bad day?
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:54 am

Post by nn30 »

eagerSnake wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:47 amZoronos is probably town


Why?
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:03 am

Post by boring »

MariaR wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:26 amVOTE: Zoronos

Best vote atm I haven't liked any of his posts to put it in a simple answer.


This is a train that I can ride for a while. Have you ever worn a jacket so small that you can't button it up or move your arms properly? That's what he brings to mind.

VOTE: Zoronos
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:04 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

boring wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:03 am
MariaR wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:26 amVOTE: Zoronos

Best vote atm I haven't liked any of his posts to put it in a simple answer.


This is a train that I can ride for a while. Have you ever worn a jacket so small that you can't button it up or move your arms properly? That's what he brings to mind.

VOTE: Zoronos

Mind explaining this metaphor?
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:06 am

Post by Zoronos »

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:53 am

That's exactly what absent means last time I checked. You seem upset. Are you having a bad day?


Yes. I am having a real bad day.

Also that's not what absent means; for all I know you're reading the thread, stroking a beard and saying "Hmmm... yes, insightful" to each post then taking a puff on your old english pipe and making notes in a leather bound journal. But that's not making its way into the thread, and you're getting a lot of votes lined up on you for what is essentially "I don't like this slot's RVS vote and continued absence".
So, while I find absence annoying (because it means I can't get a useful read on your slot) I am not a fan of simply lynching it down. But I can't make a cogent argument that "Hey, this seems like a not great plan" without some reasoning to back it up beyond simply "Lets not lynch lurkers" because that will convince exactly nobody.
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:15 am

Post by PenguinPower »

For me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:23 am

Post by Zoronos »

Shadow_step wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:00 amActually I wouldn't mind if everyone answers this ^

I personally think Eager could have waited a bit and tried ti develop some reads before outing that he is ascetic. More info to be gained from reactions after that.


a) Ascetic is functionally the same as Miller in terms of being a net negative utility role for town, so claiming it early, just like claiming miller early is important. (Yes I know they work differently, I'm making a broader point about negative town utility)
Waiting to claim it for 'reactions' just opens up an easy scum pushback line of "Why didn't you claim Miller [or whatever] in your first post?!". Not opening easy scum lines is good.
b) I don't see a reason to do anything about it other than nod and go "Yup, certainly a thing he claimed." It tells us very little about the slot. There is a pro-town reason to say it, and a pro-scum reason, and beyond that it's more instructive, imo, to just read the slot for its posts.
c) Fishing for strong reactions to it is a bad plan in my opinion, since the people most disposed to react to a PR-interacting claim are themselves the folks with PR's.

I have the slot leaning slight town, and that's enough for me to look elsewhere.
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:24 am

Post by Zoronos »

PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:15 amFor me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.


Tell me more about this, because I've ignored his RQS answers. (I've ignored basically everyone's). Why are they scummy?

My last? (maybe two games ago?) game on these boards, about a year ago, I got burned lynching down someone who was aggressively non-contributory. It felt good but they were town, which was less good. So I am a bit skeptical of running that same play back.
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:26 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

It goes like this: one minute you're lynching a lurker, the next you're out a doctor.
I think I’m done with emotions as a weapon.

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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:31 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Zoronos wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:24 am
PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:15 amFor me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.


Tell me more about this, because I've ignored his RQS answers. (I've ignored basically everyone's). Why are they scummy?

My last? (maybe two games ago?) game on these boards, about a year ago, I got burned lynching down someone who was aggressively non-contributory. It felt good but they were town, which was less good. So I am a bit skeptical of running that same play back.


Spoiler: RQS Answers
Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:00 pmSure, I'll play along.

1.) Third party.

2.) No.

3.) No.

4.) No comment.

5.) Very. I feel like I can learn a lot from everyone here.


"Sure, I'll play along" and then provides nothing. His only post of the game where he could have said anything, and it's "No; No; No comment" but I'm excited to play!

So...he knows that he's being anti-town with his play, yet he continues to do it. I'm not going to give him a pass based on his past behavior or for this crap:

Gamma Emerald wrote:It goes like this: one minute you're lynching a lurker, the next you're out a doctor.


And, it's offputting to me that GE is defending LUV as strongly as he is.
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:33 am

Post by boring »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:04 am
boring wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:03 am
MariaR wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:26 amVOTE: Zoronos

Best vote atm I haven't liked any of his posts to put it in a simple answer.


This is a train that I can ride for a while. Have you ever worn a jacket so small that you can't button it up or move your arms properly? That's what he brings to mind.

VOTE: Zoronos

Mind explaining this metaphor?

Sure. It's like nothing quite fits.

I'll give examples.
1. He said in post #162 "My gut doesn't like his post, but I think that's because a lot of it is talking about himself." But he can't stop talking about himself.
2. He jumped on Grendel for asking questions, and then says in post #97 "This is a decently analytical thought though for this point in the game. ++towniness." because Grendel soft-defended him.
3. Post #65 "Saying an ascetic claim is scummy is foolish; it is strictly non alignment determining. If you are town, you claim it to avoid wasting an NA. If you are scum, you claim it to avoid a cop hit." I'm uncomfortable with how comfortable he was with eagerSnake's [awful]decision.

It's awkward, and it makes me suspect that he's forcing himself to act or be a certain way (like a jacket that's too small).

p-edit: Gamma's weird. You get used to it.
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:42 am

Post by Zoronos »

@Penguin
Ah, gotcha. I agree that his play is anti-town. I further agree that it's frustrating.
I'm just hesitant to immediately lynch it down without attempting to draw him into more normal play first.

PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:31 amAnd, it's offputting to me that GE is defending LUV as strongly as he is.

I have a lot of sympathy for GE's position on this one.
Maybe I am projecting here, but I read GE's argument as "Playing useless is not a tell either way for LUV". 2 of my last 3 games on these boards before I left had people that were aggressively useless (as town). I got burned by lynching them. I'm hesitant to run that play out again without at least attempting to cajole the slot into playing normally.
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:48 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Zoronos wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:42 amattempting to cajole the slot into playing normally.


And how do you propose to do that?
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:49 am

Post by Zoronos »

boring wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:33 amI'm uncomfortable with how comfortable he was with eagerSnake's [awful]decision.


Claiming early and clearly as negative utility roles is absolutely correct. It is the best line of play as town in that situation.
Throwing 'why did you not wait for reactions?!?!?' stuff, as ShadowStrike did, is not.
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" setup. If a negative utility claims early, it opens "Why didn't you wait for reactions". If they claim late, it opens "He's faking a real [x] would have claimed immediately / claiming miller late is scummy because he was making sure there wasn't a counterclaim." There is no route that doesn't face critique, so you take the one that gives the most clarity.

So yes, I am totally okay with the manner in which EagerSnake claimed. Also, ascetic seems a really off the wall thing to fake claim, I'd expect a much simpler 'miller' or something if he was just scum faking.
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