Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

podoboq
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Post Post #200  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:51 pm

Official Vote Count 1.05
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lil Uzi Vert (3): Shadow_step, implosion, PenguinPower
Zoronos (3): DierFire, MariaR, boring
boring (1): eagerSnake
MariaR (1): Lil Uzi Vert
nn30 (1): nn30
implosion (1): Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (3): Grendel, Zoronos, Slandaar


Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)
Last edited by podoboq on Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"

Unstable Mafia is happening now!

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Post Post #201  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:51 pm

In post 198, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 197, Zoronos wrote:attempting to cajole the slot into playing normally.


And how do you propose to do that?


I don't know.
I was hoping a momentary relief of lynch pressure would convince him to come and play seriously but idk.

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Post Post #202  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:53 pm

@Zoronos
Your reasoning is unsound, and it takes 2 seconds to realize it. Unless eagerSnake's just a vanilla town with an ascetic modifiers, he's blown a town PR for no good reason. He'll be dead before he can use it. We don't even need a conf. town Day 1, when his guess is as good as ours, and we outnumber scum more than we probably ever will. He should/could have just played the way any other PR plays: act town, and keep your head down to avoid a NK. That would have reduced the chances of wasted NAs, and given us something useful when we really needed it. Even if scum managed to get him mislynched Day whatever over it, that's fine. We'd see his flip, have whatever info he left behind, a good scum pool on his wagon, and he'd still be more useful then than he'll be now.

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Post Post #203  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:11 pm

I disagree with most of that in terms of 'how 2 PR properly', and as you note, you're making an assumption about what PR he may or may not have. He could just be vanilla ascetic. But having that argument isn't really game related, so we can discuss it in post or dead thread.

Suffice that I think EagerSnake's play was legit, and Shadowstrike's rejoinder is scummy.

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Post Post #204  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:12 pm

In post 190, Zoronos wrote:
In post 186, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
That's exactly what absent means last time I checked. You seem upset. Are you having a bad day?


Yes. I am having a real bad day.

Also that's not what absent means; for all I know you're reading the thread, stroking a beard and saying "Hmmm... yes, insightful" to each post then taking a puff on your old english pipe and making notes in a leather bound journal. But that's not making its way into the thread, and you're getting a lot of votes lined up on you for what is essentially "I don't like this slot's RVS vote and continued absence".
So, while I find absence annoying (because it means I can't get a useful read on your slot) I am not a fan of simply lynching it down. But I can't make a cogent argument that "Hey, this seems like a not great plan" without some reasoning to back it up beyond simply "Lets not lynch lurkers" because that will convince exactly nobody.


I'm sorry to hear that. I will keep you in my prayers.

I assumed I'm being ran up on because of RVS silliness and that it would pass.

If I'm reading correctly, you want me to be a little more open with my thoughts. I can do that, but as I've said earlier, I don't have any reads. Everyone is in my neutral bucket right now. However, I'm working just as hard as I hope you are to get them.

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Post Post #205  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:15 pm

In post 195, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 193, Zoronos wrote:
In post 191, PenguinPower wrote:For me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.


Tell me more about this, because I've ignored his RQS answers. (I've ignored basically everyone's). Why are they scummy?

My last? (maybe two games ago?) game on these boards, about a year ago, I got burned lynching down someone who was aggressively non-contributory. It felt good but they were town, which was less good. So I am a bit skeptical of running that same play back.


Spoiler: RQS Answers
In post 106, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Sure, I'll play along.

1.) Third party.

2.) No.

3.) No.

4.) No comment.

5.) Very. I feel like I can learn a lot from everyone here.


"Sure, I'll play along" and then provides nothing. His only post of the game where he could have said anything, and it's "No; No; No comment" but I'm excited to play!

So...he knows that he's being anti-town with his play, yet he continues to do it. I'm not going to give him a pass based on his past behavior or for this crap:

Gamma Emerald wrote:It goes like this: one minute you're lynching a lurker, the next you're out a doctor.


And, it's offputting to me that GE is defending LUV as strongly as he is.


I don't see how doing what Grendal asked makes me anti-town.

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Post Post #206  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:16 pm

Thank you.

And you're reading correctly; that's what I was hoping for. I appreciate it.

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Post Post #207  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:22 pm

UM
ShadowStrike is dangerously close to the username of a person on the homesite of Grendel and me.
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Post Post #208  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:28 pm

Shadowstep, sorry. My mistake.

What is your opinion on Grendel, since it sounds like you know him better?

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Post Post #209  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:41 pm

He's probably town based on his current actions, but I want to see more.
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Post Post #210  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:56 pm

In post 208, Zoronos wrote:Shadowstep, sorry. My mistake.

What is your opinion on Grendel, since it sounds like you know him better?


I've only played with PP, eager and Maria before. So I'm not familiar with Grendel.
From my exp, scum are more awkward during RVS, and RQS is more or less NAI.
I'm currently leaning null town on him.
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Post Post #211  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:27 pm

I would switch my vote to boring but it's already there

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Post Post #212  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:31 pm

S_s is also a good vote rn

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Post Post #213  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:31 pm

In post 212, eagerSnake wrote:S_s is also a good vote rn

Please explain. I'm town leaning him.

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Post Post #214  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:41 pm

Mostly gut. If I try to figure what's going into that gut I'd say it seems he's asking questions but doing nothing with the answers

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Post Post #215  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:15 pm

Okay, here are my answers to my own questions.

Spoiler: about me
1) What is your preferred alignment?
Town. I don’t enjoy the lies, and manipulation that come with the mafia fraction. Indie is a case by case sort of thing.

2) Are you often mislynched? If so, why is that?

No, I have yet to be lynched as town. I’m very good at accumulating town cred as town due to an open handed play style. I also fight much harder against getting lynched as town because i care more about winning as that faction.

3) Can you describe your play style concisely in one sentence?
A note taker, an over thinker, who attempts to be a positive influence on the game state.

4) If you were the deciding vote at lylo with the slot above you, and the slot below you, which player would you lynch and why? (Ex: 1 would be deciding between 13, and 2. 2 would be deciding between 1 and 3. 3 would decide between 2 and 4.)

Most likely Implosion. I wasn’t a fan of his entrance plus a couple other things i just went over.

5) How excited are you for this game?
Pretty enthusiastic actually! If I had to assign a numerical value it would be 7/10. There are several people here that I’ve played with before, or have wanted to play with for a little while now. Which is better than playing with complete strangers.


RQS analysis

EagerSnake: I at first thought he made a really derpy scum slip by saying he prefers playing as town (1), but then assigns the numerical value of “1 out of 10” to his enjoyment thus far to this game (5). After taking a moment to think I realized that being a NU would most likely effect his enjoyment. Despite giving me very basic responses he has remained consistent with his answers, which is good. My only nitpick was that I was really hoping for more of a response to question (3) then “No”. Also like how he was the first to submit answers, I find that town are more likely to contribute to this first, while scum hang back to see if it catches on or not. Town.

MariaR: I interpreted her responses as light hearted and playful (looking at 2 and 4). Which I attribute towards somebody with little stress. I don’t know Maria well enough to know if she can maintain that level of naturalness as both alignments. I do think her mixing basic terminology is reflective of somebody unafraid of getting called out on petty issues, which I see more coming from a town mindset. I might even say the same thing for (1) and (5) lined up. Maria’s (3) isn’t much better then Snakes. She also submitted answers before cut off. Town lean.

Gamma: There appears to be some mutual level of trust between Gamma, and Snake looking at both responses at (4). I like his response alright. Not confident enough on reading Gamma, he has witnessed me doing RQS before, and is much more likely to know what I want to hear. Even him telling people that I am much more inclined to do this as town then scum doesn’t help because he knows how much I like being town read. Null.

Nn30: Sorry, I’m docking town points for making your first post being a response to my questions. Popular opinion is that RQS helps scum blend in, the thing is that a scum who hasn’t posted in the thread proper before RQS is initiated is more likely to submit answers to RQS before contributing to anything else in the game state. RQS was pretty much the first thing that Nn30 responded to. Answers to (2) and (3) aren’t good, I’ve learned that making a funny instead of actually answering a question (3) isn’t as big a scum tell as I thought, but I still consider it to be scummy. I don’t like (2) because nn30 references multiple games that are similar to mafia in (5), if he has some experience with those then he would have a decent idea how he’ll fair in mafia imo. I do like his enthusiactic (5) tho. scum lean.

Zoronos: He is clearly underestimating my ability to read between the lines. He didn't submit answers to the set, but I value peoples reactions to RQS highly, and use them as part of my RQS analysis. I find that it is common for scum planning to go deep to try and play the “voice of reasoning”, they’ll either treat me like mislead town and correct me, or they’ll correct me while throwing a light scum read my way. Often the ones who choose to paint me as misleading scum are not going to push me. The ones opting to town read me will dig their heels in when I, or they, are questioned about their stance. Clearly Zoronos is falling into the first category. He insists RQS is pro-scum, throws out a light scum read my way, but doesn’t show any desire to push said scum read. In fact if appears that he is back tracking in his next post. If in this instance Zoronos is scum there is a good chance that he is the ‘leader’ of his posse, and that his scum buddies are less experienced players then he is. Scum.

Boring: Not a big fan of her responses. Mainly that she seems really guarded in (3) and (4), and also seems insecure at (2). The combination of the two leave a bad taste in my mouth. I’m also noticing boring’s habit of openly underestimating, and down playing her capabilities. I haven’t seen her town games so I have no idea if she does this as both alignments. Null leaning scum.

Lil Uzi Vert: Really guarded and unhelpful. He has played like this as town before though, so it’s hard to anylse this dude. I will say that I expected him to be more verbose with his stance evasion. This is also the first post of his provide content since a naked RVS vote, so that docks some town points. Null I guess.

Shadow step: He responded to others before submitting answers to my questions. Which says to me that he isn’t occupied with trying to look busy. His answers themselves are okay as well, nothing looks guarded in anyway. Town lean.

Implosion
: Given his experience he will most likely gravitate towards a null read here for a while. I like his answers, they were nice and open, but I can’t ID anything that reads specify town or maf from it. I still don’t like how he wanted an analysis without submitting his own answers too. That would be like telling me to go play basket ball without providing me a ball first. Null.

PenguinPower: Really bad. He at first avoids submitting his answers without providing legitimate reasoning why he doesn’t want to. Then later he does out of the blue. I particularly didn’t like how he says “since everybody else is doing it I should too”. It is very scummy to do something just because it is popular; it shows a desire to blend in. As for his answers, (1) reads like wanting pity, and (3) is a guarded answer. Scum.

So I'm looking as something like:

EagerSnake, MariaR, ShadowStep, Gamma, Implosion, Lil Uzi Vert, boring, Nn30, Zoronos, PengiunPower

^with over 3/4's of roster involved in this reads list there is a good chance that all three scum are here. Typically once RQS takes off (more then half the roster submits something) the scum that would normally stay out of it decide its a good Idea to band wagon. Which effectively means I have light town reads on Deirfire, and Slander. What a good turnout. :)

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Post Post #216  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:19 pm

In post 209, Gamma Emerald wrote:He's probably town based on his current actions, but I want to see more.


As I noted previously, I'm pretty skeptical of him and how he's handling Question Time. I'm willing to give him a chance to synthesize something from his results but I think the chances of that actually happening in a non hand-wave fashion are low.
But what I'm looking for here is some context on his play style. If this is just A Thing He Does, I'm willing to write it off as a bad habit if he plays the game in front of us, and I'm getting false bad juju off his playstyle.

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Post Post #217  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:19 pm

Or... he just posted and now I look like a dumb.
Time to read long wall post.

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Post Post #218  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:23 pm

In post 173, Gamma Emerald wrote:@Grendel: you were there for the unclaiming in NPBR, what did you think of it?


After mulling over it I came to the conclusion that Eager is town for a different reason. However, I am pretty sure that Mafiascum site meta favors town with NU claiming early as proper play, and I haven't read any games yet where mafia would cliam something like this D1 for town cred. In fact the one game I played with a mafia esthic, the esthic kept their role under wraps even when visited, instead leaving the investigative role that visited them to believe they were role blocked.

Deirfire can atest to this as he modded that game.

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Post Post #219  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:25 pm

Lmao. Can't wait to see how this actually turns out endgame. Are you a first year psych student or something?

Oh, I also don't like how you're ignoring all the content since.

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Post Post #220  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:32 pm

VOTE: PengiunPower

Almost forgot. This dude needs some love.

PenguinPower wrote:Lmao. Can't wait to see how this actually turns out endgame. Are you a first year psych student or something?

Oh, I also don't like how you're ignoring all the content since.


No, I'm an aurtist.

I guess I was paying attention too wrapping up RQS, I didn't want to be posting about this long after it was a relevant topic. If I'm wrong, or slow it only reinforces the negative perception that RQS is useless. So I hit as heavy, and as fast with it as I can.

I'm going back to the other things I skimmed over in a sec.

Prepare for battle penguin!

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Post Post #221  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:32 pm

Oh, and just to solidify the lulz in endgame because this is great 1.) is honesty (happening now) and 3.) is honesty. I've been here a little over 3 months and my play style has changed every game. That would classify as undefined.

p-edit

You're either bad town or scum.

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Post Post #222  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:39 pm

Dierfire posted once this game (before Grendel asked the questions), and Salandaar hasn't posted at all, but Grendel didn't seem to notice that / take that into account when assigning reads. Giving a light town read because they haven't posted at all is nonsense (He says probability of scum in main list, but that assumes a PoE that can't really exist yet unless he's Super Confident in his scum reads on there)

But initial suspicion confirmed, hand-wave or over-analysis of non-alignment-indicating details. Your biggest determiner of order of response is "Who was reading the thread when you posted the list", so treating that as alignment indicating will likely lead you down a hole, since 'people that post more' are correlated with 'people that answer soonest'. So using that as an alignment indicator is a bit specious.

If anything, the answer I'd have been looking most closely at would have been "Are you often mislynched". A Yes to that answer might lead me to believe scum opening an AtE avenue. But he ignores that line of play. <In case people misread since apparently my posts get misread, I'm not saying this makes him scum I'm saying it means I think he's just doing it wrong>

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Post Post #223  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:50 pm

Dammit Grendel!

I'm wary of Penguin too, but your reasoning sucks. Your questions were NAI, and the answers you got were NAI. Also, you failed to take personality differences into account, and that's a shame, considering how much effort you must have put into that whole thing.

However, I'm enjoying the irony of PP bucking your analysis when he's going after LUV for his. Not that I'm not fond of LUV right now, either.

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Post Post #224  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:55 pm

VOTE: Zoronos
That response seems way too defensive.
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i would unironically put mafia loyal vigs in games for the record - Acidphoenix

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