Mini 1819: League of Legends: Clash of Fates (Endgame)

[Antihero]

hey everybody what's up

[Antihero]

is there a reason for the passive-aggression or what...?

[Antihero]

are there any outed clears that would be helpful as i read through?

[Antihero]

my insanely premature picks: whoever's in SIW's slot and and whoever's in jester's slot

[Antihero]

whoever yume is now is town

[Antihero]

does anyone wanna spoiler me and tell me if actiondan is any townier?

[Antihero]

my insanely premature picks: .... whoever's in jester's slot

whoever yume is now is town

these... were indeed premature

/raspberry

[Antihero]

lycan is town

[Antihero]

@Random what do you make of Yume?
What do you think of Vedith's vote on Fire in the light that he obviously never intended on creating a lasting wagon?

Yume and fb are probs town, Vedith is probs scum.
VOTE: vedith
I would like the farm vote by they way. My role becomes pretty strong with a few levels and my role is confirmed to be town if Thresh is lynched. Thresh is confirmed to be scum in my PM and I'm confirmed to be town in his. This flips and it says it cannot be stopped from flipping, implying mafia have some kind of janitor. I'm saying this as scum already have all of this info.

Maestro has been ganked by Kalista! He was Deep Terror Thresh, the Chain Warden, aligned with the Red Team.

Spoiler: Role PM

The mind is a wondrous thing to tear apart.

Welcome to the Rift, Maestro! You are Deep Terror Thresh, the Chain Warden, aligned with the Red Team.
You are Level 2.
You are a Day 1 Deathproof [Redacted] Experience Enabler Targeted Conditional Roleblocker.
You will gain a new Role PM if you gain additional abilities.

Red Team (Mafia): You are aligned with the mafia and can perform the factional nightkill. In addition, you are able to talk with your team [redacted].
Powerful Early Game (Day 1 Deathproof): If you are lynched day 1, your flavour will be revealed in the death scene but you will not die due to your powerful early game.
[Redacted]: [Redacted]
Damnation (Experience Enabler): While you are alive, any of your teammates who successfully perform a night kill gain experience for doing so.
Flay (Targeted Conditional Roleblock): You may target a player every night and stop any of their actions that target you.

Upon reaching Level 4, you may choose from the following abilities.

Dark Passage (Odd-Night Targeted Self Redirect): You may target a player every odd night and cause them to visit you instead.
The Box (1-Shot Global Roleblocker): Once per game you may cancel all night actions besides yours. All players will be informed that they were trapped by The Box. No shots will be used.

You are aligned with the Red Team and win when all threats to you have been destroyed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

yeah i do not see shit in the role pm about any of what random talked about.

what's up with this?

[Antihero]

oh... it might be the redacted part...

[Antihero]

lol @ this half-baked setup spec

early on, town roleblocker isn't high impact but once it's down to 1 scum they're pretty much a cop. it's not "neg utility"

on a little bit of a more relevant note, maestro flipping w/ a global roleblock kinda reassures me about yume...? if scum have that much blocking ability, rc would need to do a LOT to balance that

[Antihero]

i can only assume hiplop's boyfriend read is what kept siw from getting speedlynched on d1...?

she is just oozing scum

[Antihero]

in steven universe when jeanne/yume got scumread she got super flaily and indignant and there's not really that much of that here, she's more lurky and sitting on her ass :\

[Antihero]

like... i saw a glint of that at the VERY beginning there w/ vedith but that seems to have since faded

[Antihero]

it's 3 am and i'm only about halfway through but i have to sleep now

town: randomidget, kts, lycanfire, hiplop
scum: ActionDan (SummerInWonderland)


other ppl:
Basic (Yume)
shaziro
Postie (The_Jester)
Lady Lambdadelta

if i was feeling aggressive i'd prob put lld and postie into the town bin but i'll see how i'm feeling later

VOTE: actiondan

unless there's since been a cop clear or something on this slot, i'm not wanting to lynch anyone other than this. everything she's done so far is surface level and that reads list was this patched together bullshit-fest. not to mention the good measure of buddying hip to stay in his good graces. there is nothing redemptive in what she's posted so far.

[Antihero]

yeah i just did a quick iso of actiondan and there's nothing there that makes me think he's town

[Antihero]

if i was feeling aggressive i'd prob put lld and postie into the town bin but i'll see how i'm feeling later

that should be lld and shaziro

i am so tired

[Antihero]

SIW was my top scumread in earlygame, but the way she responded to pressure was fucking obvtown so that's not happening.

no it wasn't

[Antihero]

...that sounds like bullshit to me. Is anyone else not believing that, especially after all the shit about his role? That he'd just assume it works a certain way and tell us that, rather than what he actually had?

then what do you think the random redacted thing in the middle of maestro's role PM was?

[Antihero]

SIW was my top scumread in earlygame, but the way she responded to pressure was fucking obvtown so that's not happening.

anyway, this needs words because the response was not obvtown. at all.

the first attempt at a reads list, 560, was a whole buncha nothing:

Spoiler:

Okay sorry I have been busy the few days  I do think I can give some reads though this is the best way I get my thoughts out for myself!

Town- slight town reads
Hiplop – Jess thinks MUNDO is town and you need farm for good reasons! I don’t see you acting different from town hiplop other than MUNDO is in control and I am glad I have a town read on my boyfriend! I also know a super secret way to catch you as scum hehe
Random Midget –Believe what he said about thresh being in the game and doubt he would lie about that as scum! I fail to see the motive as why scum would do that because he got heat for that? I would say this is a solid town read and I didn’t like the push on it town read
Jester- I like that you continue to question people and I think that is towny and trying to grasp thoughts. I liked your questions to shaz as well! slight town read
Lycanfire-

nothing to offer info upon flip. normally scum are survivalist, but that doesn't mean town role over and die. in their last moments, they should be making moves that push a town win rather than spite everyone, and rewarding the likely scum on their wagon with a free mislynch. so if neither attitude fits with archetypal behavior, i have to question whether scum or town would get more out of this.

I really like this post in particular because it sums up my feelings mostly. I haven’t seen town just roll over and die, usually offering up reads and in particular scum reads but Yume just doesn’t give a fuck.. scum is usually survivlastic though and usually offer up a different name or push ? again Yume is not doing anything ! slight town read
Vedith – I did not like his and yumes spat at the start but that has nothing to with alignment. I was going to say I didn’t like your push on random but I realized I read the situation wrong…. You say fire is scum but it is all meta based? I have not played with scum fire so I don’t know that and what in this game makes you think that? Slight town read
Null- idk maybe scum maybe town
LLD- idk if I should be watching all the videos you link?? I haven’t been really if they are important I don’t really know what your thoughts are, other than you claimed sona? which I think is actually believable but I am not sure. Idk you played sona in league before XD
HOHOHAHA- I liked your posts in reponse to shaziro about emotional outburst have nothing to do with alignment other than that I don’t have many thoughts here is why you are in more null. Idk who you actually think is scum most of the time with the “___ is scum!” stuff
Shaziro- I don’t like your pushes particularly on random and then your progression with Yume. I think you are more null because you could just be wrong? I don’t like the random pushed but you pushed it super aggresivley and I think that comes more from town than scum? My mind goes back and forth with this..
Maestro- I don’t understand your jester point? You haven’t posted much either so I have you at null. You did have stuff to say about not getting your top picks which means you had an idea that they were in the game! That is also useful information when it comes to people claiming.
Firebringer – I do ISOs to get reads of people because I get lost just reading through the game sometimes but reading your shit is more confusing. Mostly filled with empty posts and abusing gifs! You actually haven’t posted much content at all and I don’t like it I mean other than throwing shade at me! Where I know you are wrong with. Without you saying much I am not scumreading you but you are null because in your many posts you are saying nothing 90 percent of the time.

Killthestory- you don’t explain your thoughts or really say much of them at all, this is null. Not caring isn’t scummy but its not towny its nully!
BADDIES/scum
Yume- I don’t like your attitude in the game again not alignment related. I am not sure what to think of how you are handling it you just seem not to care? I would think scum would be trying to survive and town trying to give information but you aren’t doing either… your claim seems to be more useful to scum from what people are saying to. It is frustrating but I think you are probably scum in this or horrific apathetic town.

most of my reads are null and I am not sure what to think of a lot of people here and I think peoples posts are lot of emptiness! but more than anything I think

some half-assed, passive aggressive swats back at the people voting her and there is no part of this readslist that makes me think "wow, that is a legit read." i actually think the opposite, it looks to me like this iioa-style cobbled together summary stuff and none of it has any personality or flair that makes me think siw is making a good faith effort at thinking things through

the brand of ensuing OMGUS doesn't really ring town to me either. i mean... yeah she smacks back at fire but it doesn't have a lot of juice to it and it was AFTER it became obvious that she needed to do SOMETHING or eat rope

not seeing a lot of scumhunting, but i am seeing a lot of manipulating hip

so yeah... postie needs to explain what's so town about all this.

[Antihero]

since i've got something i have to do for tomorrow i'm kind of in skim mode here. if there's something specific you want me to see, quote it plz

[Antihero]

VOTE: summer

let's play a game kids

it's called "why is hip still alive and dwlee is not?"

what's everyone's favorite theory?

[Antihero]

i'm approximately caught up

sooooooo... right now, plz either

>hit me in the face with words about why summer/dan is a town slot
>tell me why jester/postie is just obviously scummier
>vote dan

one of those^

tia

[Antihero]

^5

actiondan is scum!

[Antihero]

he's a night voter, read his role pm.

also revote dan

actiondan is scum!

[Antihero]

the only thing you're doing is killing wagon momentum

actiondan is scum!

[Antihero]

oh yeah that's right i forgot about the farm vote

random

[Antihero]

vote: random

actiondan is scum!

[Antihero]

do you think postie's scum?

[Antihero]

even that's wooden

like... you could put [monotone] tags around it and thats how i read it

[Antihero]

i would agree with you if there was any perceptible indignation or ... any sign of life coming off that kind of posting but there really isn't. it's extremely flat.

his is so fence sitting on me.
Also again, fake tone in that whole post.
It was like "look guys, I am trying here".

I really don't believe this nonsense is town.
The preface stuff like "i know you are wrong about me" its like, well obviously I am wrong on you if you are indeed town, why do you need to preface it?

did you even read what I said ? because it doesnt look like it.
you only ever addressed what I said about you and actually you scum read me off what I said first about shaz
I think you are heavily pushing me because you think it is easy and I am not scared of you.
your point against me is that I am fake.
you dont like my style of posting that is fine but you pushing me because

I think I am right. I think it is probably you and shaziro for scum.

@HIPLOP what does MUNDO think of this?

because I think I was right and he is pushing me and will somehow get towncred when he is wrong about it.

I'm with Fire on that one. SIW's last post just screams newbscum. All her posts are form without substance, poorly covered with playfulness. This last post also seems way overblown, like she felt desperate to gain towncred and a higher position instantly, whereas a town player wouldn't feel that need.

you are on the wrong wagon, scum will push me.
lol playfulness, I am continously scum read off of my style
being nice and playful is not scummy.
I can totally link town me getting pushed for the same thing when I was obvi town.

here's the whole post

it was what you quoted + "hey hip, come over here and fight my battle for me"

[Antihero]

I don't think it's flat. And I think the way she sustains the kind-of passive-aggressiveness she shows in that post throughout the entirety of her ISO rings of genuine frustration.

...

huh...?

what is the logic chain here?

[Antihero]

i definitely think there's a shift from passive aggressive to more of an attempt at dogfighting w/ fire after he doesn't back off after the readslist is posted

[Antihero]

"tone pings me as town" should not engender the certainty you seem to have

[Antihero]

i'm just about ready to vote postie

[Antihero]

probably the only thing keeping me from it is that i saw you pull this same shit in queen as town

[Antihero]

I don't understand what you don't understand.

no, i understand

it's just not good

[Antihero]

so who's scum?

[Antihero]

ok well lld probably isn't happening (she got farmed yesterday) and neither is kts unless you hit us with some words

[Antihero]

<snip>

ok yeah that's kind of a wordier version of what i'm feeling

thinking on it i guess the buddying with hiplop isn't bad. those kinds of things tend to happen to rl-connected ppl. so alright... fine i can get over that.

what i can't get over is that everything she does seems reactive and, as i said before, there's not even a moment going over her posts that make me think there's a good faith effort going into trying to gamesolve

[Antihero]

VOTE: summer

let's play a game kids

it's called "why is hip still alive and dwlee is not?"

what's everyone's favorite theory?

this wasn't rhetorical, btw

[Antihero]

I especially like how absolutely made up her read on Jester was. He'd been asked 2 questions and one was a joke, yet she "really liked how he's been answering questions"

so why is your vote still on postie?

[Antihero]

vedith/mm was a bg, he might've just made a save

lld was also buffed so i dont think it's just that he was farmed

[Antihero]

alright that's 4

kts, lycan come on over

[Antihero]

or or or you can stop trying to micromanage something thats beyond your control and make your case for your scumreads

this obstructionist w/ no alternatives routine is really damaging regardless of if dan is scum or not

[Antihero]

so i'll just say this here and now postie: if you're right and dan is actually town i won't immediately push you for whiteknighting for the read itself, i know you're a good and competent player to where it's possible your gut was right where mine erred

[Antihero]

i can see why gif said what he did but i don't agree that it's a slam dunk

[Antihero]

does lld grant experience? i missed that.

[Antihero]

Well you do seem to think that a level 4 1-shot global role blocker precludes the possibility of scum having another more consistent role blocker at level 1

it doesn't. i said it made me feel better but i'm still pretty conflicted about that slot.

but maestro also had that weird kinda sorta ascetic-looking thing that RC called a "roleblocker" too as part of his lvl 1

[Antihero]

Oh and uh, who wants free experience~?

I gave it to Jester last night, but I don't knwo where I should put it this night.

ok yeah gotcha

[Antihero]

Ok in w.e the fuck was going on between Pirate Mollie and Hiplop, I actually agree somewhat with basic's post about how Hiplop's suspicion of Maestro was "out of nowhere" and over the top based on the evidence for thinking Maestro was scum in thread. Everyone else who saw Maestro was "silenced" at least took a post to digest/ponder it, but Hiplop immediately came to a scum verdict. When I came into the game my thoughts on that were that Hiplop was trying to get Jester lynched but when his early efforts failed since no one would bite, he did his best to tie Jester and Maestro together and unfairly demonize everything Jester said.

really? you think it's hip?

i mean... i know i'm not "supposed" to use out-of-game influences yadayadayada but i'm pretty certain rage quitting just for getting caught is so far beneath him

not to mention that when hip does bus it's always b/c the payoff outweighs the cost and looking at maestro's role PM, i'm kind of having a hard time buying that hip would've really thought that. that's a lot of power to surrender for a day 2 bus

[Antihero]

I think jesters post comes off as if he knows maestro isnt silenced.

No one says that kinda thing as town. Town responds like shaz did. Confusrd and making bad conclusion

VOTE: Pirate mollie
VOTE: Shos

VOTE: Cephrir
VOTE: Om of the Nom
VOTE: Natirasha
VOTE: Firebringer

VOTE: Bins
VOTE: Iecerint
VOTE: Amrun
VOTE: SpyreX

right... so obviously the course of action to take if that were the case is to counter your buddy w/ "conf bias"

[Antihero]

i'm not seeing much substance for that theory, at least on maestro's end

[Antihero]

idk i read it like he was responding to "maestro isn't silenced"

[Antihero]

/sigh

another no lynch here we come

[Antihero]

if you're going to unvote you have to actually contribute something to keep momentum going

[Antihero]

Are we not waiting for postie to post before hammering?

are you wanting to lynch her? if not idk what you're waiting for.

when you're "waiting" on something that's a sure sign it's time to move things forward

[Antihero]

fine

vote: lycan

[Antihero]

How do any of those things make her town?

because her role as scum would allow them to power up quickly

it's not open-and-shut without a mass claim but town would collectively need a LOT of power for rc to justify the existence of such a role. it's not likely.

[Antihero]

i'm gonna tell you right now that no one is switching for "PoE"

you need a smoking gun

[Antihero]

/plays sad trombone music

[Antihero]

i guess lycan and basic are waiting for more nothing to happen before voting

[Antihero]

the only thing you're doing is killing wagon momentum

actiondan is scum!

good

no

not good

very, very, very not good

and this is why i keep harping on "keep momentum going" because we could've had the actiondan flip and now be in twilight with something to talk about but right now we're all just sitting here, sinking deeper and deeper into apathy

and on top of that nothing has even been said since tuesday that's made extending the day this long worth it

lld, give the exp to whoever you see fit.

somebody,

anybody

, for fucks sake L-1 and hammer

[Antihero]

====[]

[Antihero]

===[]
[]===

[Antihero]

you seem to be the only one vocally apathetic

i'm the only one vocally anything

no one else is posting and that's proving my point

[Antihero]

farm: zefiend

[Antihero]

The one flipped chooses who they give experience from. It can be scum experience too. Maestro gave me his lynch XP. That's another reason why I wasn't suspecting the jester slot: I told him the lynch leveled me up in PT and he never pushed me on it. Postie doesn't seem to care, either. If this was a scumplay to put doubt on me, scum!Jester/Postie wouldn't have let it go.

yeah... i have no idea what you're talking about here but postie's scum so.........

[Antihero]

actually i take that back

it could be lld

[Antihero]

went back through actiondan's posts and i don't think lld is scum

[Antihero]

i think the hip slot is pretty obvious town now

also am still pretty sure on lycan and random. lld is probably fine.

everyone else i need to give another look

[Antihero]

you know...

i actually might've been too quick to write off lycan as newbtown

[Antihero]

i dunno i have to look at this again when i'm fresh

[Antihero]

standard ratio is 10:3

[Antihero]

farm antihero

if ze doesn't want it i'll take it

[Antihero]

i bet it's part of someone's role

postie needs to post

[Antihero]

i don't know, what's your take on >how random claimed, and >how that fits in w/ the redacted part of maestro's role PM?

[Antihero]

ok

so other than that why is random scum?

[Antihero]

Hello. I've read D2

Vote: Basic

He isn't a bomb-roleblocker combo. There's just no way.

Atm I lean that Hiplop bussed Maestro. KTS/HOHOHAHA are blank slates and everyone else seems kinda town

I don't know who to Farm really.

But probably

VOTE:

LLD

Is fine

I see I'm being crucified for shit SIW said. The joys of replacing in.

But actually Antihero I want at least your input on Basic's role this game because your predecessor's predecessor said "I have strong reason to disbelieve a bomb claim". Basically I want you to actually evaluate posts that I've made instead of dismissing it because it's important and if I go now, I worry people will never revisit Basic, since people are just like hurr durr the slot's town atm.

If nothing else, 1751 is a straight up scum post full of discredit and false information.

---

going through.

as for basic. scum don't typically chainsaw for scum like that as it enters wifom territory. while attention for scum is always bad.

That doesn't address the main reason which were strictly about roles. Scum also can do whatever they want. I have no idea why you think they'd be adverse to inject wifom into a read. I mean, look at you using it here in their defense.

...

Ok in w.e the fuck was going on between Pirate Mollie and Hiplop, I actually agree somewhat with basic's post about how Hiplop's suspicion of Maestro was "out of nowhere" and over the top based on the evidence for thinking Maestro was scum in thread. Everyone else who saw Maestro was "silenced" at least took a post to digest/ponder it, but Hiplop immediately came to a scum verdict. When I came into the game my thoughts on that were that Hiplop was trying to get Jester lynched but when his early efforts failed since no one would bite, he did his best to tie Jester and Maestro together and unfairly demonize everything Jester said.

Since I see this here and there... LLD is quite obviously town. I don't know if anyone has confirmed it yet, but being able to give experience in twilight is obviously the town counterpart to Maestro's role. It wouldn't be fair if LLD could give exp to scum while scum gained experience via kills as well.

but maestro also had that weird kinda sorta ascetic-looking thing that RC called a "roleblocker" too as part of his lvl 1

It's really really weak though.

Wrt Hiplop, what if the objective best case was Hiplop dying, and Maestro getting the cred. It almost happened. I'm pretty sure my slot could have hammered Hiplop at least at one point

no i don't think it's hiplop either

[Antihero]

is hiplop/zefiend really a marginal case for you? why?

[Antihero]

scum was already a man down at that point

[Antihero]

why is the slot scum?

[Antihero]

well he wasn't on his way down at 1697

what changed your mind on lld and kts?

[Antihero]

@ Lycanfire based on your own information and on jesters play this ridiculous.

It doesn't seem like postie has read wall to wall and honestly if she was scum shed have more info. The fact that she doesnt is the only thing shes posted that is remotely in her favour. This is a weak potential lynch and a waste of whatever your going to be up to imho.

bad

[Antihero]

Anti/HOHOHAHA would leave me with egg on my face considering he was one of my previous high town reads but would possibly be unopposed to lynch based on hoho's posts on reflection. If hoho was telling the truth about a protective role in mafia and flipped town I'd be eyeing zefined next.
Seeing as neither me or LLD could target the slot n1.
Im slightly doubtful as HOHO already lied about the vote. Anti has no problem placing votes by the look of it although he has lost LLDS support......?
Continuing I find it peculiar how anti is now looking for the farm when Hoho claimed it was trolly and lol.

It would leave me kinda sad to lynch anti though as he really has been the driving force in getting people talking again and getting SIW/AD lynched. But it's a possibility. Again, my favourite theory is zefineds slot was an obstruction rather than the gold. And I have somewhat cooled toward that slot. Somewhat.

also terrible, even if you weren't familiar enough w/ mollie to know that she obvtowned the slot

that's not how bussing works

also, my higher level is kinda trolly but i'm not getting there anyway and my lower level is not trolly at all

[Antihero]

@ Lycanfire based on your own information and on jesters play this ridiculous.

It doesn't seem like postie has read wall to wall and honestly if she was scum shed have more info. The fact that she doesnt is the only thing shes posted that is remotely in her favour. This is a weak potential lynch and a waste of whatever your going to be up to imho.

bad

1) what makes you think jester's town?
2) what "information"?
3) all postie's done is try to make inroads on a lurksack and a previously heavily suspected slot. what about that do you think is town? oh yeah, and hardcore defend flipped scum with some weak shit about a tonal read. that too.

[Antihero]

whatever

farm anyone i don't care

i'm just out of juice and i'm not in the mood for another exhausting grind on a lynch that inexplicably takes forever to get so someone else figure out who we're farming and i'll move my vote over

[Antihero]

/waiting on lycan

[Antihero]

could be a protective (only a bg has flipped), could be basic's roleblock

i doubt it's anyone who got farmed and opted for whatever that was over the factional kill

[Antihero]

I'm a doctor, I doctor'd lycan last night.

<3

well there you go

[Antihero]

and lycan was supposed to have something on postie so i'm waiting on that

[Antihero]

jeez, lycan actually has something better to do on a friday night than be on MS?

what a loser

[Antihero]

yes it would assuming game doesnt end today

[Antihero]

mine's better

[Antihero]

i'm about 90% sure lynching postie ends this anyway so... whatever

[Antihero]

/in before it was all a reaction test and he really doesn't have anything

[Antihero]

just say what it is, lycan will confirm/deny when he gets here

[Antihero]

couldve sworn i saw lycan at the bottom of the page

wtf

[Antihero]

what's stasis?

[Antihero]

oh ok so rc made the role like my beta radiation cop from science

[Antihero]

i don't see how this confirms postie. help me out here.

[Antihero]

i see how basic is confirmed

[Antihero]

I don't. Explain like I'm five.

i take it back

the results confirm basic didn't do anything so that means he couldn't have done the factional kill. ninja already flipped. but i was forgetting that nobody died so it's not confirmed that scum even tried to nk. so technically he's not absolutely confirmed.

so it's not bulletproof but still i think the more likely explanation for the missing kill is LLD's lycan protection rather than an intentional no kill

[Antihero]

Also does LLD claiming doc mean anything because I thought it did so I moved her out of my lynchpool but now I'm thinking that if scum attempted a kill and it failed they could just claim doc and no one except a rolecop or whatever could call them out on it and it would make a good cover in case someone tracked them

i don't see anyone counterclaiming doc or giving an alternate explanation for why there was a no kill

VOTE: postie

[Antihero]

yeah postie has still failed to give me reason to think she's town

[Antihero]

Also, if I'm scum you realise I cannot win as the last scum right?

Because I don't have a vote? I need to give it to someone else?

Like I'm triple confirmed.

Confirmed as a doctor.
Confirmed by being an experience giver.
Confirmed by having no vote.

fun fact: i've been voteless scum and RC has used voteless scum in one of his setups before

not that i think he did this time, but voteless scum is a thing

[Antihero]

nobody else going to know. go ahead and claim if you think it'll help.

[Antihero]

ohkay..........

so are you saying you should be lynched at some point or what?

[Antihero]

no we're lynching postie today

[Antihero]

what needs to happen:
>vote postie
>give reasons for why postie is town

[Antihero]

i believe it too.

now refer to my previous post.

[Antihero]

You think that is a scum role?

why couldn't it be?

[Antihero]

why not?

[Antihero]

why?

the obvious tradeoff to the experience is being a man down. and the choice of who gets exp is private afaik.

[Antihero]

i... see the flavor name but not the player name

[Antihero]

whether or not most folks flavor "revealed" is irrelevant. who gets the exp from the lynches is not mod-confirmed.

postie is the most likely scum.

[Antihero]

what's the payout from the shaz lynch?

i guess i'm missing that.

[Antihero]

farm antihero

[Antihero]

what bonus lynch?

[Antihero]

i mean... i guess a shaz lynch would be a net positive if shaz was an iffy read for you.

it's not for me.

Spoiler:

I don't like the push on rando one bit, WHY would he claim that at this point, I dont see any reason as scum...
yea i have seem scum claim weird stuff for the sake of it before but this does not seem like that at all and I read it as very towny.
shaz is still voting that and I can't see good reason to stick with that. why?
@hiplop I am assuming you want these farm votes for good reasons
VOTE:

hiplop

Right, first things first. She thinks something is towny, and can't see a good reason to keep my vote there. My problem is, I made it clear why my vote was still there, and what it'd take to remove it. She chose to ignore that. I figured it was probably just her wanting to know my reasons and maybe she didn't see them at first, but I think even just looking back and seeing "I think you slipped, so this is where I'm most comfortable voting, prove me wrong and it'll go away" is fairly clear.

@shaziro are you town reading yume based on personality tells??

Yume appears to be more timid and careful with her posts when she's scum, from what I've seen. With Vedith's stuff she was just firing back quickly and wasn't concerned with how it appeared.

this has nothing to do with alignment?? its weak and she sits null to me
I don't like it and I don't like your tunnel on rando
VOTE: shaziro

So now she calls it a tunnel on Random. I don't know about you, but I've never seen somebody tunneling say "If you can just do some towny stuff, instead of a lot of nada, my opinion will change with that. I'm not locked into a read on you by any means". But, if she asserts that it's what is happening, folks might believe her and follow suit. Especially when in that last quote, she'd already started buddying up to Hiplop. Now, yes, town buddying up with town is an important part of the game, but I genuinely don't think she had a townread on him when he'd spent practically all of the time before that making jokes and fooling around. You can argue that fooling around is townlop, but Legends of the Hidden Speakeasy says otherwise. She also discredited my thoughts on Yume with no real argument. Just more assertion. "That has nothing to do with alignment."...okay, but why? I've shown why I think it does, why couldn't she show why she thinks it doesn't? Again, I figured it might just be that she doesn't like to explain why she reads things a certain way, I've seen an annoyingly large number of folks refuse to explain their reads, assumedly to keep their precious scumhunting secrets secret? Maybe it was just that, and she's just wrong town (Which I brought up when FB started calling her scum, because that's where I was at at the time).

Okay sorry I have been busy the few days  I do think I can give some reads though this is the best way I get my thoughts out for myself!

Town- slight town reads
Hiplop – Jess thinks MUNDO is town and you need farm for good reasons! I don’t see you acting different from town hiplop other than MUNDO is in control and I am glad I have a town read on my boyfriend! I also know a super secret way to catch you as scum hehe
Random Midget –Believe what he said about thresh being in the game and doubt he would lie about that as scum! I fail to see the motive as why scum would do that because he got heat for that? I would say this is a solid town read and I didn’t like the push on it town read
Jester- I like that you continue to question people and I think that is towny and trying to grasp thoughts. I liked your questions to shaz as well! slight town read


Shaziro- I don’t like your pushes particularly on random and then your progression with Yume. I think you are more null because you could just be wrong? I don’t like the random pushed but you pushed it super aggresivley and I think that comes more from town than scum? My mind goes back and forth with this..

Now let's talk about this post, which really started to change my mind to the scummy side of things! First off, more buddying with hiplop, as well as the "Super secret way to catch you as scum" thing, which I think is completely fiction and meant to make other people think "Oh, she knows him super well so it must be true, therefore Hiplop is town!", which would then make a townhip happier with her slot.

She's back to calling my push on Random a push, instead of tunneling. The "you got heat for it so scum wouldn't do that!" is just dumb, imo. Gambits are a thing, and if, for instance, he knew that a scum partner was Lucian and he was Thresh (or vice versa), he could make that claim, deal with the suspicion, and then ride the towncred. I'm not claiming that's what happened, as I believe the claim fairly fully now, but I think that her trying to ignore the fact that it could easily be a scum gambit is her trying to push on me for doing something "anti-town".

The Jester read is 100% where I agree with Fire about it being fake. Jester has asked me 2 questions, and one of them was garbage by -anyone's- metrics. The first was who I felt "wasn't doing so hot", basically asking me who I thought was faking a role restriction. That's fair enough, but fairly null imo. I can see how it could be seen as towny though, so that's not my problem. The second was him asking me if it was "a bit early for a chainsaw". Because he missed that I was voting to give him farm, not to lynch him. That was clarified fairly quickly, and I don't see any way that misunderstanding could be read as any kind of alignment. So the "questions to shaz" she liked amounted to "who do you think is a fake post restriction?" and "LOL WAY TO CHAINSA- what? Oh. Nevermind". That read is fake as all hell.

Lastly, she does the non-commital fence read on me. I sit on the fence a lot too, especially when I start playing devil's advocate, and I understand that it's not a bad thing. But I -don't- like that Vedith gave -me- hell for it, but not her. Which made me think that if he was actually scum instead of just wrong town, like I'd been wavering on him, they could be partners, and he's selectively applying "logic" to benefit scum. Firebringer was right when he pointed out that she and Vedith have the same reads, and he jumped to defend her and decry the idea of voting her. The same thing he accused FB of doing. I think Summer is the more likely of the two of them to be scum, as (like I said), Vedith rubs me the wrong way a lot of the time anyhow and could simply be angrily wrong. But if she flipped scum, I'd be sure he would. So, once I'd made those connections, I went with the vote on 'er.

Apologies for spelling/grammar fuckups, I'm tired and being powered by gas station hot dogs. But, I'm as good as my word, and I said I'd explain.

^i doubt this is bussing. at the time of the post, siw was one of three competing wagons and it was clear hiplop would be heavy-duty defending the slot. there's not much incentive to bus.

does anyone have any reason to think there's enough of a chance shaz is scum where it's worth lynching the slot before postie?

[Antihero]

and that leads me RIGHT back to this

what needs to happen:
>vote postie
>give reasons for why postie is town

you can add:
>give reasons for why someone other than postie is scum

[Antihero]

Anti, I give 2 levels of experience to whoever I want when I get lynched. Here's the way this goes, Lycan can correct me if I'm wrong:

I get lynched.
I give 2 levels to Lycan
Lycan uses his special ability to cause a second lynch on Postie

IF:

Postie flips scum and game ends? WE WIN WOO!

Postie flips scum and game doesn't end? WE HAVE MORE LEVELS ON TOWN AND THE GAME GOES ON WOOHOO!

Posite flips town? WE HAVE MORE LEVELS ON TOWN AND THE GAME GOES ON WOOHOO!

ok so i'll ask again

what
is
the
payout
from
this?

what are the advantages of this instead of just lynching postie?

[Antihero]

because if we're doing what you're saying we're presumably:
>trading a townie
>putting # of players at even numbers

lycan simply "having more levels" if all the extra leveling does is give one double day (that's being used to execute this "plan") doesn't sound like a good payout for that

[Antihero]

looking back at lycan's claiming, it's not clear. from a game design perspective, i'd guess it's a one shot thing.

It doubles day with oathsworn lynch AND puts us in stasis.

i still don't know what "oathsworn" means and i don't know what "stasis" is.

and lycan can use it instantly and keep it in d4 from twilight? when's the resolution on all these things?

[Antihero]

now's the point where lycan needs to clearly explain the mechanics of how this is supposed to work.

AND if we're going through with this, either you (shaz) or him needs to confirm with RC that the experience-granting resolves when you think it does.

I can actually pretty much force scum not to kill anyone tonight. With my special thing.

and i forgot about this so it wouldn't be even numbers

[Antihero]

To be fair, I also forgot that would make it not even numbers, so I don't blame you.

@Mod: Does my granted experience take place immediately, or does it come the following morning?

he's probably not going to answer that out here. pm him too.

[Antihero]

i have a feeling lycan's double day isn't a repeatable thing which would make this moot but i'll let lycan clarify

[Antihero]

yeah... i got that. i even said that myself in my next series of posts.

[Antihero]

Why do you strong town read him?

i mean... i guess a shaz lynch would be a net positive if shaz was an iffy read for you.

it's not for me.

Spoiler:

I don't like the push on rando one bit, WHY would he claim that at this point, I dont see any reason as scum...
yea i have seem scum claim weird stuff for the sake of it before but this does not seem like that at all and I read it as very towny.
shaz is still voting that and I can't see good reason to stick with that. why?
@hiplop I am assuming you want these farm votes for good reasons
VOTE:

hiplop

Right, first things first. She thinks something is towny, and can't see a good reason to keep my vote there. My problem is, I made it clear why my vote was still there, and what it'd take to remove it. She chose to ignore that. I figured it was probably just her wanting to know my reasons and maybe she didn't see them at first, but I think even just looking back and seeing "I think you slipped, so this is where I'm most comfortable voting, prove me wrong and it'll go away" is fairly clear.

@shaziro are you town reading yume based on personality tells??

Yume appears to be more timid and careful with her posts when she's scum, from what I've seen. With Vedith's stuff she was just firing back quickly and wasn't concerned with how it appeared.

this has nothing to do with alignment?? its weak and she sits null to me
I don't like it and I don't like your tunnel on rando
VOTE: shaziro

So now she calls it a tunnel on Random. I don't know about you, but I've never seen somebody tunneling say "If you can just do some towny stuff, instead of a lot of nada, my opinion will change with that. I'm not locked into a read on you by any means". But, if she asserts that it's what is happening, folks might believe her and follow suit. Especially when in that last quote, she'd already started buddying up to Hiplop. Now, yes, town buddying up with town is an important part of the game, but I genuinely don't think she had a townread on him when he'd spent practically all of the time before that making jokes and fooling around. You can argue that fooling around is townlop, but Legends of the Hidden Speakeasy says otherwise. She also discredited my thoughts on Yume with no real argument. Just more assertion. "That has nothing to do with alignment."...okay, but why? I've shown why I think it does, why couldn't she show why she thinks it doesn't? Again, I figured it might just be that she doesn't like to explain why she reads things a certain way, I've seen an annoyingly large number of folks refuse to explain their reads, assumedly to keep their precious scumhunting secrets secret? Maybe it was just that, and she's just wrong town (Which I brought up when FB started calling her scum, because that's where I was at at the time).

Okay sorry I have been busy the few days  I do think I can give some reads though this is the best way I get my thoughts out for myself!

Town- slight town reads
Hiplop – Jess thinks MUNDO is town and you need farm for good reasons! I don’t see you acting different from town hiplop other than MUNDO is in control and I am glad I have a town read on my boyfriend! I also know a super secret way to catch you as scum hehe
Random Midget –Believe what he said about thresh being in the game and doubt he would lie about that as scum! I fail to see the motive as why scum would do that because he got heat for that? I would say this is a solid town read and I didn’t like the push on it town read
Jester- I like that you continue to question people and I think that is towny and trying to grasp thoughts. I liked your questions to shaz as well! slight town read


Shaziro- I don’t like your pushes particularly on random and then your progression with Yume. I think you are more null because you could just be wrong? I don’t like the random pushed but you pushed it super aggresivley and I think that comes more from town than scum? My mind goes back and forth with this..

Now let's talk about this post, which really started to change my mind to the scummy side of things! First off, more buddying with hiplop, as well as the "Super secret way to catch you as scum" thing, which I think is completely fiction and meant to make other people think "Oh, she knows him super well so it must be true, therefore Hiplop is town!", which would then make a townhip happier with her slot.

She's back to calling my push on Random a push, instead of tunneling. The "you got heat for it so scum wouldn't do that!" is just dumb, imo. Gambits are a thing, and if, for instance, he knew that a scum partner was Lucian and he was Thresh (or vice versa), he could make that claim, deal with the suspicion, and then ride the towncred. I'm not claiming that's what happened, as I believe the claim fairly fully now, but I think that her trying to ignore the fact that it could easily be a scum gambit is her trying to push on me for doing something "anti-town".

The Jester read is 100% where I agree with Fire about it being fake. Jester has asked me 2 questions, and one of them was garbage by -anyone's- metrics. The first was who I felt "wasn't doing so hot", basically asking me who I thought was faking a role restriction. That's fair enough, but fairly null imo. I can see how it could be seen as towny though, so that's not my problem. The second was him asking me if it was "a bit early for a chainsaw". Because he missed that I was voting to give him farm, not to lynch him. That was clarified fairly quickly, and I don't see any way that misunderstanding could be read as any kind of alignment. So the "questions to shaz" she liked amounted to "who do you think is a fake post restriction?" and "LOL WAY TO CHAINSA- what? Oh. Nevermind". That read is fake as all hell.

Lastly, she does the non-commital fence read on me. I sit on the fence a lot too, especially when I start playing devil's advocate, and I understand that it's not a bad thing. But I -don't- like that Vedith gave -me- hell for it, but not her. Which made me think that if he was actually scum instead of just wrong town, like I'd been wavering on him, they could be partners, and he's selectively applying "logic" to benefit scum. Firebringer was right when he pointed out that she and Vedith have the same reads, and he jumped to defend her and decry the idea of voting her. The same thing he accused FB of doing. I think Summer is the more likely of the two of them to be scum, as (like I said), Vedith rubs me the wrong way a lot of the time anyhow and could simply be angrily wrong. But if she flipped scum, I'd be sure he would. So, once I'd made those connections, I went with the vote on 'er.

Apologies for spelling/grammar fuckups, I'm tired and being powered by gas station hot dogs. But, I'm as good as my word, and I said I'd explain.

^i doubt this is bussing. at the time of the post, siw was one of three competing wagons and it was clear hiplop would be heavy-duty defending the slot. there's not much incentive to bus.

does anyone have any reason to think there's enough of a chance shaz is scum where it's worth lynching the slot before postie?

[Antihero]

he's using assumptions about lycan's role to make this argument

assumptions lycan should confirm

[Antihero]

i'm sidestepping because i'm not having a conversation. you're not townreading shaz and you disagree with me? fine.

and no i'm not familiar w/ shaz's meta.

[Antihero]

ok so the point IS moot

postie lynch can proceed

[Antihero]

i'm sidestepping because i'm not having a conversation. you're not townreading shaz and you disagree with me? fine.

and no i'm not familiar w/ shaz's meta.

I'm fine that you're fine with my stance.

We are still having a conversation because your stance reads as very superficial/made up and I want you to support it.

too bad

[Antihero]

if you haven't read the game, you don't get to dictate shit

[Antihero]

awesome. so while you're over there congratulating yourself on being an amazing bullshitter i'll just be over here voting scum.

[Antihero]

if you're unfamiliar with the context of shaz's case on SiW, you're bullshitting by blithly saying "nuh uh." you're also bullshitting a scumread on my slot if you bothered to read mollie's leg of posting OR any of my posting on day 3.

it doesn't really surprise me you're doing this though. it's all about pedantry and having the best zinger comeback, right?

you can have the last word. i'm not engaging any further.

[Antihero]

I mean, I'm happy that I'm a firm townread, but I'm a jungle creep Anti, I'm literally meant to get lynched for Town to get ahead.

sell me on the "get ahead" part

honestly i feel like you and lycan are abandoning a reads based approach and saying "lol let's just toss shaz off the cliff because he's not 'confirmed' town"

there's not enough conftown to just line lynch. using the most generous definition of 'conftown' there are 2: lycan and lld. i can get one more if i get experience to level 3 but even then it's not autowin.

am i misunderstanding something?

[Antihero]

by the way, lycans plan DOES put the number at evens

[Antihero]

what needs to happen:
>vote postie
>give reasons for why postie is town

i'm just going to keep posting this every 48 hours or until someone actually does it

[Antihero]

apathetic, not surprised thor's getting to someone else

anything else?

[Antihero]

I'd be less bewildered if it was Newbs being poncey - but it's fully fledged members who've been around the block who are having the "debate" with me.
It's like - what are you smoking right now?

yeah, of course it's not you. it's everyone else.

[Antihero]

yeah, there's a hole. it's called "i'm not scum and your model for scumhunting sucks." i never "acted like i had a case," i gave you a reason and you rejected it and i didn't put any more effort into trying to convince you because you're pretty much the equivalent of the guy that walks in near the end of a movie and asks everyone else to catch him up. except the guy who walks in on the movie doesn't have the benefit of the movie being RIGHT THE HELL HERE TO READ AT HIS LEISURE.

but i also don't expect any of this to ever sink in. which is why i stopped trying and disengaged.

please, anybody else, stop me if any of this is inaccurate.

[Antihero]

oh wait, no i take that back

you're ACTUALLY the guy who walks into a movie at the end and then starts yelling wrong guesses about whats going to happen at the TV

that's a more fitting analogy

[Antihero]

for everyone else:

i have no plans to unvote postie. if someone else wants to step up and take the lead and lynch shaz, dot it now. otherwise, vote postie w/ me and let's get this done.

[Antihero]

Day ends and twilight begins in 2 days, 9 hours, 45 minutes.

in case anyone was wondering

[Antihero]

it's not an attack. you're confused about why people are treating you badly and i'm telling you.

and you have some balls to call me the lazy one here.

[Antihero]

don't ever replace into a game i'm in again.

i'll return the favor.

[Antihero]

you have unflinchingly awful opinions that you deliver in the most smug way.

couple that with not even being assed to read anything and it's insufferable.

[Antihero]

oh yeah... and the "dodging." that's another thing. like i owe you something. hand me a puke bucket.

for the record, i have no idea what the "lying" part is about and i'm not really interested in digging into it since it's probably some form of semantics argument

[Antihero]

there's no lie in that

i said "shaz didn't bus"

you said

With this many open claim 3rd parties that seems inherently a weak case to me.
Are you aware of some Shaz bussing habits that I'm not? I actually consider that point, just by your description, a perfectly timed moment to bus if Shaz is a busser.

"yes he did"

yeah, you took more words to say it than i did. that doesn't change the meaning.

so... what's the "lie"?

[Antihero]

With this many open claim 3rd parties that seems inherently a weak case to me.
Are you aware of some Shaz bussing habits that I'm not? I actually consider that point, just by your description, a perfectly timed moment to bus if Shaz is a busser.

INHERENTLY A WEAK CASE

what about that is NOT "nuh uh"?

[Antihero]

Which is expressly not what I did - I was actually asking you to go deeper on your opinion, and offering a counterpoint thought.

i did not get "simple request for information" out of that post.

mostly because,

I stand by that thought, it was a perfectly fine place to bus. Like, if I had to pick a time to bus and expect to have it go right for me in any way - that would have been the point.

if you did not read the thread, how could you possibly make this kind of assessment? that IS an "out of hand" dismissal.

[Antihero]

You keep trying to make some sort of deal about my lack of reading now - which is neither here nor there.

no, that's everything

and it doesn't bother me that you didn't read. it's that you didn't read and then you critiqued my reason and pushed down the gas peddle on these uninformed opinions.

[Antihero]

You also don't address the 3rd party point I made.
You don't address how you have no Shaz bussing awareness.
You don't address that Shaz agrees there is no bussing meta of him,
You don't address how it was a fine time to bus if that was his goal.
You don't address how I asked you anything.

i don't know what your 3rd party point even was

the rest don't need addressing. the bussing point is a judgment call and if anyone wants to go into the finer points of why they think shaz bussed there then fine. of course that would require (you guessed it) reading the thread.

i also think an important thing to have in this sitaution is a read on postie's slot and...well... everyone else's slot. this is part of the cost-benefit analysis i'm doing with lycan and shaz (why are we lynching his slot when there's one that looks way scummier?)

context

[Antihero]

vote zefiend

on board with this

[Antihero]

the farm vote hasn't been hammered anyway. not sure if that means you can change real votes or not.