Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:54 am

Post by Shadow_step »

MariaR wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:52 amN30 has been obv town since the start of this.

The fact gamma isn't obv town when I've obv town read him before is worrying

the LUV townreads make me laugh.

I'm gonna look more into a few players that don't need names but with the amount of people I am slowly going like "you can be town" these players are....


If penguin is scum, LUV is town.
I do agree on that town reading LUV is kinda dumb.
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"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:56 am

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@Eager what did you learn from that hammer?
What are you current reads?
Even a readlist with one line explanations would be fine.
The shadows betray you, because they serve me.

"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach

"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:56 am

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Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:52 amI would call Maria prob town but she is so good at faking town reactions I'm not gonna town read her for this.
hahahahaha <3

If you had to name PP's partners even if it's weak who would it be atm.
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:57 am

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Read's lists are fine but giving reasons why are stupid cause scum can either A) Keep doing what they're doing if they're tr in said list or B) Stop doing what the person finds scummy.
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:58 am

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Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:49 amLike nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.

@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.



@Shadow_Step - You're not getting out of this by town reading me. So many people have done that already that it's about the safest thing in the world to do.

I would like responses to 366 & 395.

:)
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:01 am

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@Maria
I find reasons for scum cases to be really instructive. To that end, I have no idea how to read you or engage with you because you just post a conclusion without explaining.
I get nothing from that, and am not even sure where to begin examining it. It leaves me a bit boggled.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:04 am

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Zoronos wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:01 am@Maria
I find reasons for scum cases to be really instructive. To that end, I have no idea how to read you or engage with you because you just post a conclusion without explaining.
I get nothing from that, and am not even sure where to begin examining it. It leaves me a bit boggled.
Sorry to hear that.
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Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:23 am

Post by Zoronos »

Yeah, me too. I don't like 'passively observe stances, hope to glean insight'.
I'm just not sure how to handle it since it falls so far outside my normal experience.
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:28 am

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Zoronos wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:23 amYeah, me too. I don't like 'passively observe stances, hope to glean insight'.
I'm just not sure how to handle it since it falls so far outside my normal experience.
It's a hard stance cause I don't want to give any info to scum but if I give no info I'm also giving none to town so!
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:29 am

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PP is at L-3 right?
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:31 am

Post by eagerSnake »

What kind of information would you not withhold, MariaR?
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:32 am

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eagerSnake wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:31 amWhat kind of information would you not withhold, MariaR?
I don't really know if I get pressured enough I know i out reads with reasons anyway making me a huge hypocrite
I outted reads just without reason *shrug*
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:34 am

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So what you're saying is the only way we're going to get info out of you is to apply pressure?
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:36 am

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nn30 wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:58 am
Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:49 amLike nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.

@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.



@Shadow_Step - You're not getting out of this by town reading me. So many people have done that already that it's about the safest thing in the world to do.

I would like responses to 366 & 395.

:)


I've already answered that?
I was already voting PP because I didn't like his stance on the eager claim. He said he believed it and said he read him as null. Which was very safe. I'll get into the details of this later.

I got a town read off of you after that hammer because I think as scum you would attack me for hammering someone prematurely amongst other things .
The shadows betray you, because they serve me.

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"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:37 am

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eagerSnake wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:34 amSo what you're saying is the only way we're going to get info out of you is to apply pressure?
Unless I feel the random need to out info yeah that's prob the best way.
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:37 am

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@eager stop ignoring my questions.
The shadows betray you, because they serve me.

"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach

"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:40 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Are they important questions to the current gamestate? (i.e. on-topic)
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:43 am

Post by nn30 »

Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:36 am
nn30 wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:58 am
Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:49 amLike nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.

@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.



@Shadow_Step - You're not getting out of this by town reading me. So many people have done that already that it's about the safest thing in the world to do.

I would like responses to 366 & 395.

:)


I've already answered that?
I was already voting PP because I didn't like his stance on the eager claim. He said he believed it and said he read him as null. Which was very safe. I'll get into the details of this later.

I got a town read off of you after that hammer because I think as scum you would attack me for hammering someone prematurely amongst other things .




1st answer was satisfactory.

2nd answer was not.

Result - scumlean.
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:44 am

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eagerSnake wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:40 amAre they important questions to the current gamestate? (i.e. on-topic)


Yep
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"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:48 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:56 am@Eager what did you learn from that hammer?
What are you current reads?
Even a readlist with one line explanations would be fine.


Not much. What did you learn from the hammer?

I state my reads pretty clearly
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:57 am

Post by nn30 »

@Gamma - what are your thoughts on:

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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:04 am

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Shadow: needs to actually contribute
Eager: probably town
Maria: idek
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:00 pm

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Zoronos wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:19 pm
Grendel wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:21 amOh and, I'm about to get really busy on something, and won't be on tonight.

See you all tomorrow... evening?


Putting the answers to the random questions completely aside, can you point to why Penguin is scum, based on things he's posted in game?


His wagon on Lil Uzi Vert is easy. Lil is non contributing and anti town, but his play is a largely null tell for me because he did this exact same thing as town last time I played with him. Heck I, as scum, pushed to get Vert lynched with the same reason that Penguin is here. That Vert is “fence sitty and his lack of stances make him scum lordz”. Lil is a great wagon for scum!Penguin because he can push this wagon through with little consequence once Vert were to flip town.

His move to Gamma isn’t much better because Gamma is known for taking things at face value. Like Gamma is hard town reading, and defended me because I opened with RQS. This is because I played a game as scum where I didn’t open with RQS. When the reason I didn’t open had more to do with me subbing into a game with 20+ pages then my alignment. It’s the same thing with Vert, Gamma has an experience with town!Vert being fence sitty and non-contributory, so he thinks Vert is town here. Penguin’s biggest reason for voting Gamma is because Gamma tr Vert, everything else seems like that Penguin seems to find scum about Gamma looks like pretty normal Gamma play too honestly.

Basically Penguin has only pushed for wagons on easy players.

I also don’t care for announcing I’m town without explaining why. All the more awkward considering that he seemed to think i was scum, (or bad town), just one page earlier. I only posted a couple thought in between those points. I don't see how Penguin would have come to that conclusion as quickly as he did based solely on that. All I really did was defend my RQS, and tell Penguin that calling me "scum, or bad town" is an ugly knee jerk reaction. I could totally see Penguin as scum backing off because he decided I wasn't an easy lynch.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:05 pm

Post by nn30 »

Grendel wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:00 pm
Zoronos wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:19 pm
Grendel wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:21 amOh and, I'm about to get really busy on something, and won't be on tonight.

See you all tomorrow... evening?


Putting the answers to the random questions completely aside, can you point to why Penguin is scum, based on things he's posted in game?


His wagon on Lil Uzi Vert is easy. Lil is non contributing and anti town, but his play is a largely null tell for me because he did this exact same thing as town last time I played with him. Heck I, as scum, pushed to get Vert lynched with the same reason that Penguin is here. That Vert is “fence sitty and his lack of stances make him scum lordz”. Lil is a great wagon for scum!Penguin because he can push this wagon through with little consequence once Vert were to flip town.

His move to Gamma isn’t much better because Gamma is known for taking things at face value. Like Gamma is hard town reading, and defended me because I opened with RQS. This is because I played a game as scum where I didn’t open with RQS. When the reason I didn’t open had more to do with me subbing into a game with 20+ pages then my alignment. It’s the same thing with Vert, Gamma has an experience with town!Vert being fence sitty and non-contributory, so he thinks Vert is town here. Penguin’s biggest reason for voting Gamma is because Gamma tr Vert, everything else seems like that Penguin seems to find scum about Gamma looks like pretty normal Gamma play too honestly.

Basically Penguin has only pushed for wagons on easy players.

I also don’t care for announcing I’m town without explaining why. All the more awkward considering that he seemed to think i was scum, (or bad town), just one page earlier. I only posted a couple thought in between those points. I don't see how Penguin would have come to that conclusion as quickly as he did based solely on that. All I really did was defend my RQS, and tell Penguin that calling me "scum, or bad town" is an ugly knee jerk reaction. I could totally see Penguin as scum backing off because he decided I wasn't an easy lynch.



First off - I've been town reading you for a while.

Second - I don't think it's appropriate to townread gamma because he defended your RQS opening. Making that argument is strategy oriented and scum or town could make it. It's more null than anything.

FYI - I meta dived gamma. In none of the town games I found did he make a point of saying "I'm town reading xxx." He's done that a number of times this game. He's referenced playing mafia scum on another forum - which leads me to believe his play style is relatively consistent.

Do an ISO dive on him - you'll find him pointing out town reads on a number of people. Then check his past games. I think you'll agree with me.
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:07 pm

Post by Grendel »

implosion wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:02 pm

@Grendel, and @anyone else who wants to know why PP is town: PP's reaction in and makes me think town for a few reasons. 1, I think he shows genuine contempt, and that contempt indicates that he genuinely doesn't think your points have merit, meaning he's either town, or he's scum who thinks your line of reasoning is completely wrong which I find less likely because 2, it's antithetical to what I saw of PP's play in my other game with him. I pressured him a lot in that game; I was town, he was scum and he was, I think, a bit more hesitant to engage on such a direct level with calling the arguments I was making bad. He answered the queries I had about him and didn't really comment as much on the quality of my reasoning, iirc. Or at least it doesn't stick in my mind. I think the reaction of calling you bad town or scum is relatively unlikely to come from the scumgame that I saw in that game. 3, those posts in addition to contempt show a certain level of him feeling like he's in-the-right (since he's talking about how he was just being honest with his answers) that I think is consistent with town who feels like they've been accused for bs reasons.


I don’t know how useful metaing him is when he self proclaimed that he changes up his style in every game he plays. Remember how his play style is ‘undefined’. If you can reliably meta his plays then that would mean he was holding back information, and fabricated some elaboration when I called his original response guarded... Or it could mean that Penguin over estimates his ability to inject variety into his games.

In your last game with him, how much ‘ethos’ did you carry? E.i. would it have been scary for Scum!Pengiun to 1v1 you in that situation?

Since RQS is generally viewed as too abstract to be effective by the masses I see contempt in this situation could come from either faction. I could see him doing 219, or 221 as either faction. Also, at the time I’m inclined to think that Penguin would have felt safe from my case, as I had been generally null read, and he was removed as a viable lynch, even heading a wagon against another player. I had not established anything that resembled intelligence, assertiveness, or credibility. Three things that make scum flighty. Nothing about me up until then spelled “threat”. Therefore, as scum he was in a good position to brush off my argument.

Though none of this points to Scum!Penguin specifically. I do think it proves that your observations don’t necessary point toward Town!Pengiun.

How do you feel about Penguin’s lack of interaction with me at page 3 top, voicing an implied disinterest in RQS before ignoring me. Then later popping in after all the other active players had submitted answers and deciding to submit his too so he wouldn’t be “left out”?
PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:21 am

Since everyone else is playing...I don't want to be left out.

It looked like scum trying to stay in popular opinion.
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