Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait wtf I forgot I changed my mind on implosion; make my read on him null-town
As for ShadowStep, I want him to not be as tunnely.

You think he's scummy for tunnelling, or you just wish he'd act differently? Town tunnels all the time.

I want him to be less tunnely and actually contribute. I keep forgetting to make things clear.

[PenguinPower]

So, why are you letting LUV go without doing the same?

[MariaR]

WTF
How do you get "content with it" from that post? Was the sarcasm not clear?
@Maria

I mean the fact you did nothing to stop it didn't really help either.

[Gamma Emerald]

@PP: Because SS seems to be faking content.

[Grendel]

Grendel - His line of speculation appears faulty, but not scummy. Probably town.

But Boring, if you feel my logic is off base the why are you sharing my top scum read?

If I'm really off my game and I started the Penguin wagon wouldn't that give you pause?

[PenguinPower]

And LUV seems to be doing...what?

[Gamma Emerald]

WTF
How do you get "content with it" from that post? Was the sarcasm not clear?
@Maria

I mean the fact you did nothing to stop it didn't really help either.

I wasn't against it, just against the fact he was run up so fast.
I'm actually rethinking my scumread on PP because of that wagon looking back.
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

And LUV seems to be doing...what?

Trying to actively contribute.

[boring]

Hey everybody, I'm thrilled to join the game and can't wait to jump in.

That said, this is my busiest weekend of the year which makes it difficult to do so. I'll try to do a more comprehensive read on Sunday but for now I'm frozen in time at Page 12. In the meantime I'm going to VOTE: boring whose #196 left me wondering if she was trying to find inconsistencies or trying to find scum.

That's pretty thin, but it beats the hell out of eagerSnake's fear-vote. Welcome aboard!

[MariaR]

WTF
How do you get "content with it" from that post? Was the sarcasm not clear?
@Maria

I mean the fact you did nothing to stop it didn't really help either.

I wasn't against it, just against the fact he was run up so fast.
I'm actually rethinking my scumread on PP because of that wagon looking back.
UNVOTE:

Hey look now we're on the same page gamma!

[PenguinPower]

@ Gamma: No way. Is that #4? Or do you really believe that?

[Shadow_step]

Hmm, still time.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm feeling like the most likely person to be scum on PP's wagon was Dierfire. Also, my SS read has shifted to the town side.
VOTE: Dierfire

[boring]

Grendel - His line of speculation appears faulty, but not scummy. Probably town.

But Boring, if you feel my logic is off base the why are you sharing my top scum read?

If I'm really off my game and I started the Penguin wagon wouldn't that give you pause?

Even blind acorns find nuts on occasion!

I didn't like your RQS analysis because it runs counter to my experience of people in general. I don't like your attempts to identify entire teams at once because it's incredibly speculative. But I'll be fair: all that matters is what works and what doesn't. If, at the end of this game you were right, then I'll gladly eat my words.

[Dierfire]

@Gamma Emerald

How are me and PP scum together?

I've already referred to 351 for this. Did you have a question or a comment about my reasoning there?

[Dierfire]

@PenguinPower

The timing is weird to me (¿why is the absence of Slandaar provoking absolute hate at this point?) and feels more like PenguinPower is looking for something to say than like PenguinPower has a real comment on Slandaar at this point.

Um, because I noticed it then? Should I have brought up before then?

I think that it's strange for you to be noticing it then, yes. My reaction in that position would have been to say something about players voting for me. Given the tone of your 431, I take it that you find most players voting for you likely to be Town?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma Emerald

How are me and PP scum together?

I've already referred to 351 for this. Did you have a question or a comment about my reasoning there?

Well if I was scum with PP my comment on the flashwagon would have probably never made it in. Why would I link myself to my buddy like that?

[Dierfire]

I'm not seeing that comment as especially unlikely to come from a Mafia partner. It casts aspersions on the wagon without actually defending PenguinPower directly.

[boring]

Even blind acorns find nuts on occasion!

Sweet mango chutney, I wish I could say I worded it like that on purpose. I'm an old lady, and it's past my bed time. I'll see you crazy kids tomorrow.

[PenguinPower]

I think that it's strange for you to be noticing it then, yes. My reaction in that position would have been to say something about players voting for me. Given the tone of your 431, I take it that you find most players voting for you likely to be Town?

First question: Why? I commented when I noticed an extremely inactive player (2), which was followed by a mod post about replacement.
Second question: That's a strange conclusion. I think there a some town on my wagon that seem to be doing worthwhile things, and if my lynch gets them moving on the right track, then...yeah. String me up.

[Grendel]

Hey everybody, I'm thrilled to join the game and can't wait to jump in.

That said, this is my busiest weekend of the year which makes it difficult to do so. I'll try to do a more comprehensive read on Sunday but for now I'm frozen in time at Page 12. In the meantime I'm going to VOTE: boring whose #196 left me wondering if she was trying to find inconsistencies or trying to find scum.

Cool dude. (They're called RQS questions)

If your still on rn I'd like to hear some more of you thoughts up to page 12.

@Grendel

Does anybody have some hypothetical scum teams cooked up?

I can't I.D. third scum for my scum team and want to hear some interactions people may have caught between people.

A lot of people I originally thought could be with Penguin were, or are, on his wagon.

As I've outlined (351), I think that Gamma Emerald looks like a viable partner for PenguinPower. I also want to flag the quote below as suspicious, but I think that it's probably not productive to think too hard about this from an associative perspective right now.

Btw...not liking Slandaar right now. Hate. Absolutely hate. Prodging.

The timing is weird to me (¿why is the absence of Slandaar provoking absolute hate at this point?) and feels more like PenguinPower is looking for something to say than like PenguinPower has a real comment on Slandaar at this point.

Not sure about the idea of penguinXGamma, its possible they are distancing but it seems unlikely given these last few page between them.

If you could explain these reads soon that'd be nice-

I'm out of time for this interval. I'll back in a few hours to discuss why I'm reading implosion, Grendel, and nn30 as Town (I could tentatively add eagerSnake and Zoronos as well).

Mainly interested in town!Implosion.

I really want you to be town Dier!

Pre-edit

Good lord guys, what a party.

Even blind acorns find nuts on occasion!

Sweet mango chutney, I wish I could say I worded it like that on purpose. I'm an old lady, and it's past my bed time. I'll see you crazy kids tomorrow.

Well I gotta admit that was pretty funny.

I've got to get off too me thinks.

[Grendel]

And LUV seems to be doing...what?

Trying to actively contribute.

Not really. He has been pretty lack luster poster. Even going off the last game.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I actually have some reads but before we get to that I'd like to just say that there's been a lot of talk about my play style mainly from Gamma and Grendal and I'd just like to say that I wasn't in the best place mentally during that game. I honestly had checked out way before I got ran up. Truth is, I don't know what's wrong with the way I play because I've never gotten mislynched before until I've played on here and even then, and so far, I haven't had my play read as lynch bait except the games I've been with you two.


Town: Diefire, Grendal, nn30, Zoro
Null: boring, Eager, Gamma, Maria, Prism
Scum - Penguin, Shadow


boring - While she does ask questions, she doesn't seem like she is actively trying to solve the game and her votes all seem like a stretch or too convenient. I don't know how to put my feelings about her into the words but I can't shake this vibe from her. I think it's mainly her vote on Zoro, which read more to me as nitpicking about inconsistencies rather than looking for scum.

Diefire - I liked every single one of his observations he's made so far and agree with almost all of them except the likelihood of Gamma and PP being a team. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, I just don't try to look for teams early on in the game and I like to focus on one person at a time once I feel 90% sure they're scum.

Eager - He's been very quiet ever since the claim and all he's been doing is throwing out town reads at awkward times without explaining them. He also seems to really have it out for boring for what I assume to be from things he's heard through the grapevine or their previous games together. For now, I'm not seeing what makes him so widely town read but he also hasn't done anything particularly scummy, just odd.

Gamma - Gamma strikes me as a good dude who's very eager to play mafia and seems to enjoy the game a ton. But, his defense or his use of meta in regards to my play has honestly gotten him into a bind here to the point where I wished he hadn't done it. He doesn't seem to have any bad intentions whenever I read the tone of his posts but I can't argue against the cases presented against him but for now, my gut says he isn't scum.

Grendal - Outside of the RQS, I've liked a lot of the questions he's asks and I think he's trying his hardest to understand the thoughts and motives behind what everyone is saying and doing. His fixation with Gamma is a little weird, but I understand that they're friends and feeling confident that you aren't being doped by a friend can definitely help go a long way into building that town block Snake was talking about.

Implosion - I'm still waiting for him to give his thoughts on me but for now I'm not sure what to think of him because while he's been the only player to have voted for me without mentioning why, I've really liked how he's defended himself and presenting his cases.

Maria - Very hard to read to me but that's mainly because I feel we play similar.

nn30 - Is actively poking and scum hunting. I like this guy a lot

Penguin - As I've stated earlier, I am pretty wary of Penguin, especially after how hypocritical he's been about Grendal's RQS. He harps on contributions but I don't see much from him other than relentless attacking for things that are very NAI such as those RQS and inactivity. Like his posts don't make me feel like I should be breaking my neck for this game.

Prism - Just subbed in. Nothing to go off of.

Shadow - Like Penguin, I don't get the sense that he's really contributing, he's very quick to just jump on things and doesn't really have sound reasoning for jumping on said things. At first I thought he was just a VI, but he keeps saying that this game is easy or it's almost solved, which baffles me and makes me uneasy.

Zoro - Outside of his strong dislike for RQS, I get a strong town vibe from him because he truly seems to believe what he stands for and what he's saying. I truly think he's only being scum read because his play is not seen as someone who has to adjust to the way the site plays now.

[Zoronos]

@Zoronos

The rapid change between 221 (Grendel is either Town playing poorly or Mafia) and 242 (Grendel is Town) is also suspicious to me. While I agree that the last line of 241 sounds more like the kind of thing that Grendel would say as Town than as Mafia, the speed of reversal from the aggression in the earlier posts makes me believe that the aggression was feigned.

Why specifically is that change suspicious? He was clearly entertaining the possibility of town in 221 (you summarized it above, 'Town playing poorly or Mafia'), and Grendel posted a whole bunch in between those two posts. Explain your thinking to me.

In 221, PenguinPower is saying (as an immediate response to Grendel's post above) that the case that Grendel presents against PenguinPower is groundless, and that this makes Grendel either Town playing poorly or Mafia. The phrasing communicates a certain level of aggressive pushback. When I read 242, the aggressive pushback seems to have disappeared (while the essence of the argument that Grendel's suspicions are unfounded remains). To me, this suggests that 221 was intended to simulate an emotional reaction. I'm also not sure that I see anything from Grendel in the intervening posts that would persuasively point to Town alignment for someone who had such a strong feeling that Grendel was playing so poorly as to possibly be masking Mafia intent, but the tonal shift is the main point.

So, yes, tonal shift. But I feel you're explicitly missing the point of a post; look again at 232 and 241 and Penguin's reaction to it in 242. Penguin goes from aggressive to dismissive. I basically came to the same conclusion / point in 234. Grendel's posting is bad; not scummy bad, just dumb. The tone I get from Penguin is exasperation. He's moving from 'scum or bad town' to 'Oh gosh this is just earnest bad town', in my opinion.
The cause of the town shift is very simple; he is super fucking adamant that his method works. That's basically the most responsibility seeking behavior possible; in the face of multiple people telling him that his method won't catch scum and moving on, he chooses instead to double down on his poor method. He all but stamped his feet and crossed his arms in the thread. It's perhaps the least responsibility avoidant behavior I've seen this entire game.

So, you're either missing an obvious cause for the tone shift, or not understanding the tone shift. There is a better case available against Penguin (in my mind), so I'm really curious why you chose this specific case.

[Shadow_step]

Calling me a VI? Okay that is just bullshit.
Esp since you have no idea with am I talking about.