Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:50 pm

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:47 pmCalling me a VI? Okay that is just bullshit.
Esp since you have no idea with am I talking about.


Never called you a VI, I thought you was one though. Why so angry?

And you're right, I don't know what you're talking about, but no one else does either. Mind sharing what knowledge you may or may not have to determine how you're finding this game easier then the rest of us?
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:51 pm

Post by Shadow_step »

At the right time.
The shadows betray you, because they serve me.

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"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:02 pm

Post by Zoronos »

Grendel wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:30 pmUNVOTE:

I need to sort Gamma asap


Gamma is probably town. Also, the odds of Gamma and PP being scum together is very low. If they are, they've been working very hard to distance from each other all game. I think it's more likely at least one is town. They've been sniping at one another pretty consistently this game.
Unless PP has decided he's dead and Gamma is already on the bus and PP is just waving for the train to complete, I don't see them being a scum team pair. Likelyhood of both scum: Low.
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:04 pm

Post by Zoronos »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:35 pmI'm feeling like the most likely person to be scum on PP's wagon was Dierfire. Also, my SS read has shifted to the town side.
VOTE: Dierfire


I'm not convinced yet that PP is town, but I agree that amongst the cases on PP, I dislike Dierfire's case. (As can be surmised from my initial question, and response above this). So, I am vaguely in support of this sentiment.
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:21 pm

Post by podoboq »

Official Vote Count 1.12
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

PenguinPower
(3): Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire
Gamma Emerald
(3): implosion, PenguinPower, MariaR
boring
(2): eagerSnake, Prism
DierFire
(1): Gamma Emerald

Not Voting
(4): Zoronos, Lil Uzi Vert, nn30, Grendel


V/LA
: Gamma Emerald

Deadline
: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)
Last edited by podoboq on Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:51 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:31 pm

Post by Zoronos »

PenguinPower wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:44 pmSecond question: That's a strange conclusion. I think there a some town on my wagon that seem to be doing worthwhile things, and if my lynch gets them moving on the right track, then...yeah. String me up.


In this theoretical world, who are the town on your wagon?
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:31 pm

Post by Dierfire »

@PenguinPower

PenguinPower wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:44 pmThat's a strange conclusion. I think there a some town on my wagon that seem to be doing worthwhile things, and if my lynch gets them moving on the right track, then...yeah. String me up.

Is it not an accurate conclusion? Which players on your wagon are Town doing worthwhile things? Which are suspicious folk?

EDIT: Ha ha, that was my question!
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:32 pm

Post by Dierfire »

@Grendel

Grendel wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:46 pmIf you could explain these reads soon that'd be nice-


Sorry, I got distracted. Here is my reasoning.

implosion
has a few consistencies of thought. I liked the vote for Lil Uzi Vert in , and the reaction to Gamma Emerald in . These are consistent with the evolving reads presented in (implosion was initially suspicious of Grendel, Zoronos, and eagerSnake, so it makes sense that he would move his vote to a wagon like Lil Uzi Vert).
He also has good points on Gamma (, , ).
Lastly, the read on PenguinPower given in is thoughtful and makes clear effort to understand motivations for actions (although I suspect that when I read the game in question I will be able to come up with at least two reasons for the mismatch).

As a side note, I recall implosion as a source of quality analysis in a prior game (link--I'm not counting Mini 1762 because I never actually played). I'm therefore aware of what implosion said in ; still, I think that these points make implosion more likely to be Town.

nn30
is a seemingly uncontroversial read, so I'll be brief. The look at prior games in indicates a certain amount of motivation to discover information. I also agree with points raised by Zoronos in .

As for you (Grendel)
, I think that your RQS is probably not indicative of alignment, but your reaction to those who question RQS (in particular the last line of your ) seems more likely to come from a Town player (there's a path of less resistance if you're Mafia just looking to fabricate some reads). Your case on PenguinPower agrees with my read and does not strike me as likely to come from a Mafia partner (unlike Gamma Emerald); this is further reinforced by the way that PenguinPower responds to you.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:32 pm

Post by Dierfire »

@Zoronos

Zoronos wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:40 pmSo, you're either missing an obvious cause for the tone shift, or not understanding the tone shift. There is a better case available against Penguin (in my mind), so I'm really curious why you chose this specific case.


I suppose that the best explanation that I could give is this: I'm not seeing the tone shift from aggressive to dismissive, but more like aggressive/dismissive to avoidant.
If you see a better case (and if it doesn't look to be related to my existing line of questioning), I would like to hear it (particularly given your most recent posting).
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:20 pm

Post by Zoronos »

Dierfire wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:32 pmI suppose that the best explanation that I could give is this: I'm not seeing the tone shift from aggressive to dismissive, but more like aggressive/dismissive to avoidant.
If you see a better case (and if it doesn't look to be related to my existing line of questioning), I would like to hear it (particularly given your most recent posting).


I may be projecting, since I moved from aggressive/dismissive to straight up dismissive. But, I think that's the accurate read on Penguin's tone and that yours is wrong.

The case I would make, if I were doing one, would look about like this:
I'd be focusing on if I were looking at Penguin's interactions with Grendal was his pejorative "Are you a first year psych student or something?" -> It's an attack on credibility of the player, rather than the argument.

I think his original case () on Gamma was flawed. He cracks back at Gamma for Gamma's Implosion vote (Implosion talked about A, then voted B without any further mention of that player), which was an incongruence on the part of Implosion; I can see a town mindset where Gamma brings that up. So painting it as scummy is incorrect. Going after Gamma for it is not really reasonable; it's searching for something that can be painted as guilty but which has no real correlation with guilt.
Similarly, going after the wording 'serious vote' is silly; why is clarity suddenly a scumtell.
I attempted to engage him on Gamma, but he just waved it away without discussion () then voted . I can kinda see a world here were PP thinks I'm just a moron, and envisions an Implosion / Gamma scum team, but he already got on Gamma's case for voting Implosion, and now he's voting Gamma for thinking Implosion is town.
So, yeah, I think Penguin's case on Gamma was built on a heap of not alignment indicating factors, and that to me says it's a bad case and one worthy of attack.

He's also not spending any time working with other players or cooperatively developing reads. He's camped out in his own valley, where he mostly just squabbles with Gamma and Grendel; not very contributory towards the greater town objective.

However
I am not really ready to make that case yet. There are some counter indicating factors I'd like to sort out first.
Reading the connecting theme of his posts, there is a strong tone of aggrieved frustration. Between asking for the lynch to complete, complaining at Grendal about his methodology (without calling Grendal scum, this is important), and generally just sniping at Gamma. When he noted that Salandar's slot was afk, that's could be a legitimate frustration. Having someone just not participate is shitty for town, so it's easy to envision a town getting annoyed at an obvious oversight. For scum it's much less of an issue (unless that slot is also scum) since it's one less person they have to trick.

I also think your commentary in is off base. It's NAI (in my opinion) for him to note it. He responded to Grendel (in a frustrated fashion), posted about an AFK, and then went right back to talking to Grendel. It wasn't some epic deflection.
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:55 pm

Post by MariaR »

VI means?
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:56 pm

Post by MariaR »

UNVOTE:
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:25 pm

Post by Zoronos »

MariaR wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:55 pmVI means?

Village Idiot.
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:07 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Zoronos wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:31 pmIn this theoretical world, who are the town on your wagon?


Grendel, boring, nn30, maybe you. Of course, several have dropped off my wagon now.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:51 am

Post by nn30 »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:47 pmActually, she doesn't really seem to be trying to lead, so she's solid town.


Not trying to lead is indicative of scum, not town.
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:57 am

Post by nn30 »

MariaR wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:54 pm

Shadow being paranoid about me being scum with faking a reaction screams town to me I know he's good enough to fake it but I think looking at his other posts he can be town aswell


I don't agree with this logic. He has presented two options - you could be genuinely pissed about a hammer or you could be faking it. He buttered you up by saying you're a good enough player to fake it.
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:07 am

Post by nn30 »

PenguinPower wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:25 pm3



Made me laugh.

Well done.
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:22 am

Post by nn30 »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:10 pmReads atm, not ordered by strentgh, just who I chose.
S_S: null scum


Gamma Emerald wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:17 pm
As for ShadowStep, I want him to not be as tunnely.


Gamma Emerald wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:29 pm
@PP: Because SS seems to be faking content.

Gamma Emerald wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:35 pm
Also, my SS read has shifted to the town side.
VOTE: Dierfire


@Gamma - I 100% call BS.

Shadow Step said precisely nothing between 477 and 512 when you switch your read on him. At best this is town!Gamma being inconsistent / changing his mind on a read without explaining why. At worst it's scum!Gamma not being careful with what he says and being caught out.

@Town - I previously stated that I meta dived Gamma. In none of his town games (I read through 3) did he make a point to state town reads as they happen. He scum hunted and stated scum reads - never town reads.

In this game he's explicitly stated things that Luv & Snake were doing were town tells. He's explicitly said "I think you're town" to Shadow_Step, LUV, and Implosion.

Gamma smells
very
scummy to me.

VOTE: Gamma
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:00 am

Post by nn30 »

To add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:14 am

Post by Zoronos »

PenguinPower wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:07 amGrendel, boring, nn30, maybe you. Of course, several have dropped off my wagon now.


I am (pointedly) not voting you. You're not my top suspect. Anyway.

I'm really not sure what to think about Boring at this point; what makes you think she's town? She's in the middle of my ???? bucket.
I may be giving her less credit than she deserves because of that 'small coat' metaphor.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:23 am

Post by nn30 »

@Zoro - what are your thoughts on my 542?
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:37 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Zoronos what are your thoughts on:

MariaR
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:03 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

nn30 wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:00 amTo add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?

This case is bs
We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.

Visit my
new
GTKAS page here!

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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:05 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:03 am
nn30 wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:00 amTo add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?

This case is bs


This defense is bs
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:20 am

Post by nn30 »

Gamma Emerald wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:03 am
nn30 wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:00 amTo add on - the reason his stating so many town tells feels scummy is that scum already know who town is - they have perfect information - what better way to gain cred with the town than "reading" their play and letting them know that he thinks they're town?

This case is bs


Instead of reacting to the whole case you chose to react to a single part of it which, on it's own, would indeed be a BS case.

That's why cases are made up of multiple pieces.

More Gamma votes please.
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