Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Blade Dancer

Optimal play here is to lynch the alt.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Giggles

She didn't vote me, must be scum.

i've never voted you before and i've never not rolled town

your logic is faulty

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Creature, where you expecting me to vote House because of his misapplied logic, or was it just the fact I reacted to a single vote that pinged you? Might be my role PM biasing me but I don't see what's strange about that interaction.

House, I can't talk about my ongoing games but as it stands I have been town every game I've been in! And, in our one completed game together, you were extremely obviously town so I never voted for you. So, yes, as it stands you voted me for something that was completely illogical

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hey, did you notice gigabyte is staring in despair?

what

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: gigabyteTrousadour

Oh wow that response is bad

*giga disappears*

i have a life and am doing multiple things at once (even on this site!)... what is your point...?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: gigabyteTrousadour

Oh wow that response is bad

*giga disappears*

i have a life and am doing multiple things at once (even on this site!)... what is your point...?

Thought I saw you in the player list.

i've tested it before

it takes like five minutes for someone to be taken off of that list on the bottom

so uh

i'm kind of lost as to why you didn't like my reaction to house's post? which is what i want answered... unless you want me to vote you for "ignoring" my question

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i mean

it's

bad

but this feels like town creature for now. creature is really obvtown when he's town and really obvscum when he's scum, and the activity overview is working in his favor

so i'd prefer it if we wagon the alt so people don't try to waste time and guess who it is

House, I can't talk about my ongoing games but as it stands I have been town every game I've been in!

How many completed games have you played?

only 3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So, Creature, have you learned anything from testing me...?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wagon the alt so people don't try to waste time and guess who it is

How do you know that player's an alt? Am I an alt?

I thought I heard that through the grapevine, but there's also the fact that they don't meet the 3 completed games requirement.

I assumed that because you had Mafia Scum as your title that you've at least played 3 games on this account, making you a main.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm pretty sure titles are changed according to post count unless custom titled by the mods.

yeah, but i saw no avatar + townie and assumed that meant no completed games or any activity onsite

unless slysly posted 1000 times in 3 games (~333 posts per game) then i'm pretty sure he hit the requirement

Creature, if you like my posts, why is your vote on me?

Slysly, I don't think that makes any sense, you're not considering a lot of possibilities that can absolutely lead to me having a grapevine to hear things from as town.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Slysly, I don't think that makes any sense, you're not considering a lot of possibilities that can absolutely lead to me having a grapevine to hear things from as town.

You're not presenting any, either.

Neighborhoods, having friends to talk to via PMs, mixing up other large thread themes where people discuss someone's alt status...

I think listing those possibilities could lead to people deducing things they shouldn't, but since you asked.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Slysly, I don't think that makes any sense, you're not considering a lot of possibilities that can absolutely lead to me having a grapevine to hear things from as town.

Here's what I'm considering.

1. My role PM has no mention of ANY grapevines.

If yours does have something about "grapevine(s)" my initial thought is you are scum.

If you have a scumread on someone, why the lack of a vote?

Why does mention of a grapevine have to come from a PM, anyway? Do you have flavor knowledge?

Slysly, I don't think that makes any sense, you're not considering a lot of possibilities that can absolutely lead to me having a grapevine to hear things from as town.

You're not presenting any, either.

Neighborhoods, having friends to talk to via PMs, mixing up other large thread themes where people discuss someone's alt status...

I think listing those possibilities could lead to people deducing things they shouldn't, but since you asked.

You think scum wouldn't already deduce such things from the fact they already know you're not in their PT?

You think town wouldn't already consider a neighborhood an option is they consider a scum PT an option?

VOTE: Giggles

You're smart than this.

He openly admitted to thinking PT = scum, so I'm pretty sure I was on the right track?

And, no, I didn't claim.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I feel like we could flavor this game.

let's

not

:S

[gigabyteTroubadour]

OK, so that scratches out a few theories of mine...

Just out of curiosity, why do you think the topic of someone's alt status would be brought up in any PT?

also

VOTE: Slysly

i'm really bad at telling when i'm being manipulated but i'm pretty sure that house is right that that line of questioning was kind of leading

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Are you scared of teeny tiny alts?

no, i just anticipate people trying to figure out who you are being a massive waste of time when it's obvious why alts are made

fastest way to do that is PL the alt

[gigabyteTroubadour]

SlySly is scum. Everybody on the wagon. Choo choo!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

He strikes me as Creature 2.0.

hmm

those questions of his were leading, but this is pretty true :S

House, why is it scummy to forget things in such a large theme? I'm pretty scatterbrained and town myself, so I mean...

also sly ank has to have the hammer now i guess so i'm going to force you to vote for your scumreads, kthnx

[gigabyteTroubadour]

House, why is it scummy to forget things in such a large theme? I'm pretty scatterbrained and town myself, so I mean...

It's

page six!

i mean i forgot that not chara ever voted you

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also Giggles why do you just swallow the claim as town without sorting the player?

i have a bad habit due to [ongoing games] to believe that NU claim = town so uh

you have a valid point

[gigabyteTroubadour]

pepto, why write a catch-up 6 pages into the game?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Because I didn't know the game started until 6 pages in.

My email spam filters PM notifications.

But doesn't it make more sense to enter a game with only 6 pages in by just jumping into the action? It seemed unnecessarily try-hard to just make a catch-up post and give relatively safe opinions, but I don't want to shade your playstyle if you're just like that.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why the shade and walk back? If you suspect him, own it.

I don't though, I want to understand him and his response didn't answer my question at all.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga, this game has been moving fast and there's actually a lot of AI content in the first few pages.

I guess, but I've never seen someone write a catch-up in a large theme. It seems weird and I want to know the thinking behind it.

btw tempted to vote zakk to see the surprise, i like surprises

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but I've never seen someone write a catch-up in a large theme.

THIS EARLY into a large theme

lmao

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Nevermind the fact that the site I usually play on treats D1 as 47.75 hours of shitposting followed by 15 minutes of panic voting. All of us over there are terribad at D1, myself included

OK, I think then that the post is more of a newb/off-site tell and I'm not really interested in the push.

I'm backing Not Chara in wanting to know why it's scummy, because to me it's NAI, maybe a little scummy for being relatively safe and unhelpful but that's also a newer-player thing.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I don't recall a cautious Giggles being a town Giggles.

i'm being cautious for giving Pepto the botd?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also house you should read open 646, caution won me that game at lylo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Scared of alts and RVS votes. Probably scum or noob.

His stance to policy lynch day 1 is also Antitown.

where are you getting scared from? I know House and I think he has the logical ability to give an RVS vote that is correct. Why did you think I was (jokingly, because that isn't clear somehow??) calling for a PL on your slot out of fear?

Why does anti-town mean scum?

aren't the days of serious policy lynches over anyway?

also please use they/she for me thanks.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll be sure to use and to indicate a lack of seriousness more often then

[gigabyteTroubadour]

gigabyte, did you just call House's RVS vote on you correct?

pedit: haha.

No, I thought I said it was wrong. I've never voted for him in a completed game, and I've always been town. His reasoning was that I didn't RVS him so I'm scum, but I didn't vote him in our completed game and I rolled town.

Scared of alts and RVS votes. Probably scum or noob.

His stance to policy lynch day 1 is also Antitown.

where are you getting scared from? I know House and I think he has the logical ability to give an RVS vote that is correct. Why did you think I was (jokingly, because that isn't clear somehow??) calling for a PL on your slot out of fear?

Why does anti-town mean scum?

aren't the days of serious policy lynches over anyway?

also please use they/she for me thanks.

Only took 100 posts to reply.

You've been pushing anti alt rhetoric against myself and sly. Now, it is a joke?
Your reaction against House's vote look scared he was correct.
Anti-town suggests scummy but is not a scumclaim. If I wanted to argue you scumclaimed, I would say that. Yet, your approach seems tailored to convincing me you are dumb town than defending your actions.

Now, what do you think of McMenno?

Didn't think it warranted response until now tbh, i don't really get the push on me at all so

I didn't know sly was an alt until he said so. It doesn't matter which alt is PL'd first because they never were getting PL'd, anyway.

I can't tonal-read myself but I can assure you that I'm not at all scared of House. I actually like him a lot.

Is saying that I was joking not a defense?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh thoughts on mcmenno

none. can't read someone from 3 posts unless they're big posts with a lot of thought process behind them

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@giga, First, it likely wasn't true. Even if it was a joke,much jokes tend to be used by scum. Usually, after the types of votes McMenno casts though. Attacking players that are a threat then backing off as a joke is fairly commonly a scum move.

I don't see you as a threat.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

What is this even responding to?

I think Blade Dancer asked me for that.

I know House and I think he has the logical ability to give an RVS vote that is correct.

was referring to this, gigabyte. explain?

Oh oops

House can be really nitpicky at times, and I thought it was weird of him to justify an RVS vote on inaccurate reasoning. Really though I think it's more likely he just forgot, but I wanted to he how he'd react to being corrected.

@giga, First, it likely wasn't true. Even if it was a joke,much jokes tend to be used by scum. Usually, after the types of votes McMenno casts though. Attacking players that are a threat then backing off as a joke is fairly commonly a scum move.

I don't see you as a threat.

Just like you didn't see House RVSing you as a threat either. We're you hoping for the ignore it and it goes away method of defense?

Oh and you can actually read McMenno. Pretty easy actually.

I've never played with McMenno before so I don't really think I can read him easily. Going to ignore your first question because that's a pretty leading question.

I can't tonal-read myself but I can assure you that I'm not at all scared of House. I actually like him a lot.

You should be, because you know I don't let go of a scumread until it swings and I'm starting to get one on you.

You're trying to emulate a carefree demeanor that doesn't fit with the current atmosphere. You know damned well I can swing lynches when I dig in, but you're not concerned about me scumreading you?

I suggest you get scared and sell me on why you're not scum, or at the very least give me a better case on someone that convinces me you're not bussing.

I'm not concerned you're scumreading me because I know I'm town and that you'll see that if you're not scum.

OK, since I'm voting for Slysly and you want me to explain why I'm not bussing... Do scumpartners usually start their pushes on their own partners by asking leading questions and making them "slip"? I would assume not, because partner!Slysly already knows why I'm scum and doesn't have to "expose" me for it.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

That explains why he's not bussing.

Not you.

House...

If I give reasoning to explain that we are not scum together, that means I can't bus him in the first place because only scum bus.

@Blade, I wasn't scared of you because I didn't know who you are.

Mcmenno could just be lazy as town, your scumread of him makes sense and I at least get the logic behind it but I don't come to the same conclusion.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Contradiction!

If you weren't scared of me because you didn't know me, this implies you take meta into your argument. Yet, you deliberately remain null on McMenno without effort to sort him via his meta.

i don't have the time to meta read him at the moment, so sorry??

And how do you come to the conclusion that not being scared of you because I don't know you mean that I'm using meta? Not following that jump.

House...

If I give reasoning to explain that we are not scum together, that means I can't bus him in the first place because only scum bus.

Lawyering is a scum tactic, looking for loopholes to escape suspicion.

Doesn't work for me.

I said sell me scum (as in, results in a red flip) that doesn't leave me thinking YOU are bussing THEM if you want me drop my suspicion of you.

This crap about Sly won't fly.

Then I misread your question?

I think Sly is scum because he asked me leading questions that had the intention of making me look scummy, I don't see that as a town mindset.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

when did i admit to using a leading question

[gigabyteTroubadour]

shoot. i think i know who Blade Dancer is and it's going to make me incredibly biased even though i'm probably wrong.

then i think we both (think we) know who they are :/

if i'm right blade dancer might be scum but i can't discuss why just yet

[gigabyteTroubadour]

NC how are you reading Blade right now? Try to fight your bias if you think it's impacting you.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

gigabyte: i don't want to start making alignment guesses based on a player's meta when we aren't even sure it's really them. that's too many assumptions in one.

Can you do it without meta? That's what I was asking for anyway, sorry.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

town, at the moment. town before i started wondering about their main, and so i don't think that read is biased. but not a strong read.

OK, I seem to be the opposite though. In that I'm townreading them as Blade Dancer alone but scumreading with my guess of their main.

Might be better to townread them then, I guess.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey sly

i thought your willingness to only hammer wagons was a playstyle quirk or something, but i took a brief look at some of your games and I've seen that you've placed non-hammering votes. What gives?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I didn't know sly was an alt until he said so.

Wrong. I said I have an alt.

did you read the post i quoted??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

did you read the post i quoted??

you quoted*

ebwop

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm with Blade Dancer on this one, when towns bloc, scum have to be careful about NK'ing in the wrong bloc because it can point to that block being mostly town.

Obvtown are obvtown anyway, scum have to fake reads and so the people who are naturally nightkill bait are still going to bait the nightkill.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh lol nvm i misread slysly's post

sorry. would still like a response to my question to you when you have the chance

[gigabyteTroubadour]

who has done something arguably less than I have?

something less what?

also creature please explain wth you are doing with that vote...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Because I feel like Gamma's powerless to play like he does as town.

?

I mean I watched Gamma's newbie and saw he was a really high volume poster there, but there are a lot other factors I'd consider for a newer player to not post as much in a large theme.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey sly does me being a vi give you authority to ignore 260?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this game is going to be one hell of a learning experience, that's for sure

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I did catch up, I want a recap anyway!

surely you have like

a townread to sheep, a weak scumread, a thought that we've missed... i get you're busy but in your position even a naked vote wouldn't suck completely.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh lol nvm i misread slysly's post

sorry. would still like a response to my question to you when you have the chance

^ i pointed out that i misread your post, don't try to exploit a genuine mistake.

and what am i fishing for? I'm hoping for a response to my question. Your actions show that you aren't going to vote for your scumreads and you've expressed interest in hammering. Explain to me how it would be weird to come to the conclusion that that means you're willing to make non-hammering votes, please? You're being incredibly cagey about this and I don't like that, so if you're town, an explanation would help sort that out.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Explain to me how it would be weird to come to the conclusion that that means you're

not

willing to make non-hammering votes, please?

ebwop

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@sly, what reviewing did you do? that list is completely unchanged from your last one, besides the fact that you stated that there are two miller claims. i realize neither slot has posted anything really worth reading into, but that just makes that post even more pointless.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

SlySly seems to be derailing.

??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so i think it's time for me to out this information because it's not as obvious as i thought, but i'm worried it could be anti-town but i'm taking the risk at this point because i can't see myself making it very far in this game

the reason i'm vote parking slysly is because i'm pretty sure i have an idea of some aspects of what his role is (flavor i'm pretty sure, and some general mechanics about it but i don't know his role PM completely) and i can't possibly see it as a town thing.

i'm kind of shocked that no one else has at least hinted that they're seeing what i'm seeing, it's one of those things that i would think is obvious to anyone with flavor knowledge. i thought house was on the right track because he backed up a question i asked that lead me to this conclusion, but i don't think house has flavor knowledge and he's townreading sly so probably not.

i don't want any claims because of this, but i would like someone with a lot of flavor knowledge to re-read the thread and just tell me if they see the same thing that I am. just a yes or no would be fine. if i'm just confbiasing or chasing a smoking gun here, i'll probably move my vote to either zakk (best wagon composition and some associatives with sly) or Gamma (my next best scumread). this is something i'm

capable

of explaining but i'm trying to out this information without risking someone having to claim because i'm way off.

i wouldn't mind discussing this in a PT with a townread, however.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

looking at

just

sly isn't going to help i think

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If what you found implicates Sly as scum, sharing it with town is not anti-town and I don't get how you think it possibly could be.

Because if this theory is wrong, someone might counterclaim and I'll have baited unneeded roleclaims.

I just think it's interesting that there's

two

people who are very interested in having a hammer and are approaching it in very different ways.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but... why is there risk for a counterclaim? if you're so sure the flavour is scum/anti-town flavour, no one is going to counterclaim.

if i say what I think Sly's flavor is, then it implies that someone else has another flavor and

that

could be wrong, which is the real risk. i mean, nothing else really makes sense to me but I'm prone to confbiasing.

You're probably right about the fact that this is probably a better point to be brought up later, but I just wanted to be sure that this was something that other people can reasonably see. Whether I'm mislynched or killed this game (I can't see myself making it to endgame), I want to be sure that this is brought up.

And if SlySly can't happen today because of this, then it's better I vote for something that

can

:

VOTE: zakk

the reason i'm vote parking slysly is because i'm pretty sure i have an idea of some aspects of what his role is (flavor i'm pretty sure, and some general mechanics about it but i don't know his role PM completely) and i can't possibly see it as a town thing.

tell me this: do you think SlySly is group-scum or third-party/independent alignment?

Also echoing why would someone counter-claim an anti-town role.

Probably group-scum but 3p wouldn't be that surprising. I have no clue what the scum flavor is and that knowledge would probably be helpful.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Mod, please replace me out

Hey, I'm really sorry to do this but I really don't think this game is for me. Including this one, I'm currently /in for five different games and with the difficulty I'm having in real life I don't think I'm going to be able to keep up with all of them. Since I put the least investment in this one and I wasn't invited here, I'm going to start by dropping out of here. I planned on /outting pre-game but I thought I'd pull it together stick for the flavor. Turns out that was a bad idea, I'm just having a lot of difficulty getting a foothold on this game.

Just to drop off some final thoughts, nothing extraordinarily helpful since i never took notes for this game but:

I have no reason to state most of my townreads, most of my townreads have already found each other and are already working together. I don't get the scumreads of Not Chara though, I think it's pretty obviously town? It should be talked about more tbh. Accountant too because I'm seeing some of that sentiment around him too.

I don't really have any special scumreads to push. A lot of slots haven't posted yet, but I think Gamma is probably going to flip scum. The way he interacted with the Slysly wagon completely sheeping my reasoning and then jumped onto zakk is worth scrutiny.

Pepto feels like lynchbait to me and while he could possibly be scum, he might be better off lynched off of associations. He just feels strange and offbeat to me in a newbish way and I think people are overselling how scummy he actually is.

I still think that Slysly and Ank have scum/town parallel roles with really obvious flavor. If at some point the flavor talks about them absorbing souls or LOVE or stuff like that, one of them is probably flipping scum. I don't know if that fits into Skull's mod meta but I'm having difficulty seeing it any other way. I think NC knows what I'm getting at here so if my slot flips at any point and NC is still alive, I really think this is a necessary point of discussion. Slysly's cageyness about hammering vs. Ank's openness about claiming makes it clear to me which one is the town one, personally.

The way SlySly formulated his zakk "townlean" in thread was pretty awkward too and I think it's an associative tell. worth looking into after some flips.

If Blade Dancer is who I think they are and flips scum, the people they choose to push are like 100% town. I think this is their town game though.

But yeah, I'm really disappointed in myself for replacing out for my first time but I don't see myself being useful in this gamestate's future with the lack of effort I'll likely be putting in later if I were to stay. This was a pretty difficult decision to make, but it's better I do this now before replacements will struggle to catch up.

btw i haven't read the thread since like my last post so maybe the stuff i wrote in here isn't as relevant