Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Andrius

[Ankamius]

I forgot about this before because of the delay, but

my role has several different states it can have, and both Miller and Hated are part of those states.

By the same token, my role benefits from being on lynch wagons and hammering, so please be aware of this.

[Ankamius]

It's never both at the same time and I don't have either right now, but my role can be strong despite that.

[Ankamius]

How long are you 6 or so going to argue within yourselves?

[Ankamius]

I just finished reading page 6, and this zakk wagon is very unimpressive so far.

[Ankamius]

Oops, page 5, sorry.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: Peptobislawl

Bottom of page 8.

[Ankamius]

I'm at the bottom of page 10 and my level of indifference to what's going on is pretty similar to what I posted on that same page.

The vote count on page nine makes no sense with my current reads, so I'll have to apply context to what I'm seeing before they're really 'complete', but the way my reads are, zakk is below like 5 other people on the scum list.

[Ankamius]

zakk and slysly are probably town

[Ankamius]

4. House parroted SirCakes when SirCakes was being scummy, but SirCakes later clarified his position.

That said, what exactly was the point of this and what does it even mean?

[Ankamius]

zakk and slysly are probably town

Pointing at two wagons and saying both are probably town is empty words.

Sly is probably town because of the people on his wagon, but zakk is full of townreads for me or I wouldn't be there.

I look at the slysly wagon and see him as town because my two strongest scumreads up to that point are on the wagon, but the zakk townread is because I see all my townreads mixed with medium-strength scumreads.

Just a quick look at the current zakk wagon makes me even more sure that zakk is town, actually.

[Ankamius]

Okay, I'm caught up.

Town:
Andrius
House
Leonshade
Maxous
McMenno
SirCakez
SlySly
zakk

Null:
Creature
Gamma Emerald
Nosferatu

Scum:
Accountant
Blade Dancer
Gigabytetroubadour
Not Chara
Peptobislawl

Everyone not listed anywhere hasn't done anything I particularly care about.

[Ankamius]

Everyone in my scumlist are people I have significant scumreads on. The people in the null list are basically people I have scumreads on, but are insignificant enough that I'd probably be going for information over an actual lynch if I ever voted them.

Everyone in my townlist has either done :goodposting: in a lot of their posts, are town by association, or looked like town when engaging with one of my scumreads.

[Ankamius]

Btw what's in your avatar? that's pretty cool.

This was to Ankamius, about this avatar:

I'll take any excuse to tell this story again

[Ankamius]

I'm sorry for being one of the only people to see how scummy you really are, I guess.

[Ankamius]

Everyone in my scumlist are people I have significant scumreads on.

What makes you read Blade as scum?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Giggles

She didn't vote me, must be scum.

i've never voted you before and i've never not rolled town

your logic is faulty

Scared of alts and RVS votes. Probably scum or noob.

His stance to policy lynch day 1 is also Antitown.

Sad scum had the first two posts of the game.

A Giga scum flip will result in me screaming for a Pepto lynch the following day.

Far too early to form associative reads. Slow down. Let them be individually scummy.

Duh.

I was already scumreading Pepto for that shade af catch-up.

On the surface I get it, but I just feel in my bones he is not scummy.

Those two posts are specific ones I don't like, but otherwise it's more a general read from all of her posts.

[Ankamius]

Ank, townread on McMenno, dude nearly scumclaimed post 1. That needs explanation man. Like totally.

His posts are town.

[Ankamius]

Actually, it's less his posts are town and more that both your and Chara's engagements with him are both terrible and don't look like bussing.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Ank

Really? Terrible how? For catching McMenno using a routine bullshit line scum use or McMenno is just your buddy.

You cannot justify McMenno being town and you realized that the moment it came from your lips, so you can to resort to attacking me.

Or

I misremembered where the read came from, glanced at the notes I took and saw I had no specific post attributed to the read, and skimmed his ISO to refigure out why I was townreading him in the first place.

And your engagement on him was terrible because you were making up bullshit about his responses to you.

[Ankamius]

Why is Ankamius refusing to engage with me?

What, this post?

I'm sorry for being one of the only people to see how scummy you really are, I guess.

So, like

are you gonna give reasons

or do the sircakez "let me go ahead and say X is scummy w/out explaining why", except at least cakez explained after I asked him

If you really care enough about why I'm reading things a certain way, then ask. Don't expect me to spoonfeed you everything I'm thinking at all times.

[Ankamius]

And your only post about my reads before that was to dismiss them, so I don't understand why you felt the need to include the third line.

[Ankamius]

It's very obvious that Blade Dancer has never played with me before.

[Ankamius]

And your only post about my reads before that was to dismiss them, so I don't understand why you felt the need to include the third line.

I wanted to see if you could justify them. You can't and you're still deflecting.

McMenno hasn't scumhunted once.

Scumhunting =/= town
Lack of scumhunting =/= scum

[Ankamius]

It's very obvious that Blade Dancer has never played with me before.

Adorable, meta defense now. Really, you're going there?

Another distraction rather than providing defensible reads. I am not nitpicking. No one can townread McMenno based on his play. Null maybe if you squint. Town, no.

I frankly don't care what you think. This is how I play the game and if you want more information from me, you can ask for my opinions on specific things.

[Ankamius]

It's very obvious that Blade Dancer has never played with me before.

Adorable, meta defense now. Really, you're going there?

Another distraction rather than providing defensible reads. I am not nitpicking. No one can townread McMenno based on his play. Null maybe if you squint. Town, no.

It's only a meta defense in the way that everything you've attacked me for are things I do regardless of alignment.

[Ankamius]

And your only post about my reads before that was to dismiss them, so I don't understand why you felt the need to include the third line.

I wanted to see if you could justify them. You can't and you're still deflecting.

McMenno hasn't scumhunted once.

Scumhunting =/= town
Lack of scumhunting =/= scum

Oh you want to play semantics

McMenno has not town hunted either

He's just been a scared little bitch voting and running

What about his posting is town

Here's a hint: not everybody plays like you do.

[Ankamius]

There is no way that Blade Dancer is Firebringer.

Zero percent chance.

[Ankamius]

And your only post about my reads before that was to dismiss them, so I don't understand why you felt the need to include the third line.

I wanted to see if you could justify them. You can't and you're still deflecting.

McMenno hasn't scumhunted once.

Scumhunting =/= town
Lack of scumhunting =/= scum

Oh you want to play semantics

McMenno has not town hunted either

He's just been a scared little bitch voting and running

What about his posting is town

Here's a hint: not everybody plays like you do.

Here's a hint: I don't care if you play like me. I expect you to defend what you say or not say it at all.

Either you're having a lot of trouble understanding what I tell you or you're doing the same level of bullshitting that you did to Menno, because none of your responses in this chain have anything to do with what I've responded to you with.

[Ankamius]

What's so difficult to understand that the townread is based on how people have interacted with him over his posting itself?

[Ankamius]

What's so difficult to understand that the townread is based on how people have interacted with him over his posting itself?

What's so difficult about me asking you to justify you saying "his posting" is town?

You then walked that back immediately.

Second, my accuracy makes it more likely he is scum, not less. Merely, saying I am bad without substance doesn't justify a townread there. It's a classic deflection. Don't focus on my terrible unjustified townread on McMenno because Blade Dancer pushed it.

I immediately stated that wasn't the case and that the reasoning is entirely different. Why exactly are you pushing for me to expand on what I already stated was false? I don't even understand what the last sentence even means since I redacted that statement before you made a single post on it.

You need a take a few steps back and rethink this entire situation, because regardless of your actual alignment, you're death tunneling. McMenno is town because none of the things either you or Chara said in the engagements you had with him made any sense or looked like anything but settng up a potential lynch on him in case zakk suddenly became less of a viable option to lynch (which isvery possible with how many slots weren't very active at the time).

I'm less convinced now that you're showing the exact same markers now after it has been pointed out, but it's still difficult to tell whether you're town who is prone to getting overexcited and tunneling or scum who is trying to manipulate the town.

It would make a lot more sense for the latter if Accountant is also scum, though. It's very interesting that the only slots that immediately attacked my reads are the same slots that I have an unpopular scumread on.

[Ankamius]

Accountant's attack is significantly worse, though. I'd be voting that slot now if it wasn't a waste of time.

[Ankamius]

That was less exciting than I thought it would be.

Vote: SirCakez

Some of your early posts have really come of as manufactured.

@zakk

- The sum of your 166 was......nothing? I am surprised that nothing super great has appeared.

@NotChara-

Were you the self-proclaimed Understales expert? I'd like an opinion on 465.

What are your reads?

[Ankamius]

Accountant's attack is significantly worse, though. I'd be voting that slot now if it wasn't a waste of time.

I'm not comfortable with the 3 unexplained scumreads on me. Feels like the counter wagon zakk was talking about.

@Ankamius
@House
@Maxous

Ur approaching dangerous levels of scummy for me too

Soz bro

They may be unexplained but they can't all be wrong can they?

Yes they can. Two or three people have already given reads that are so bad I can't scumread them for it because it's clearly a result of muddled thinking rather than alignment. I'm pretty sure a lot of the people here are outright bad at mafia

The entirety of my initial scumread was how you handled the zakk wagon.

Now, I want you to explain why my reads list was so bad and why you decided to try to discredit it immediately instead of trying to figure out why I had those reads.

[Ankamius]

@Ank

– why did you choose Pepto over Giga to drop your vote?

Usually when I do catchups, I record my thoughts down and try to piece them together before making any decisions on where my vote goes. It was different in this case because the post I specified with the vote pinged me much harder than any other vote up to that point.

[Ankamius]

PeregrineV looks town right now, but I'll be more sure either way later on.

[Ankamius]

PeregrineV looks town right now, but I'll be more sure either way later on.

Why'd you have to roll scum bro?

I guarantee that I can read PeregrineV better than you can.

[Ankamius]

Also, anyone who seriously thinks that I'm an ascetic miller needs to go read my claim post again.

[Ankamius]

@Not Chara,

I don't think I can.

McMenno is arguing that ascetic miller makes sense

because of event like things

. Even if there are no "events", it implies an unhealthy desire to protect Ankimaus.

i didn't realize they were talking about Ankimaus's roleclaim specifically.
i don't know it implies that. it isn't as if Ankimaus was being attacked for his claim in the least.
again, ignore that. pretty sure i know what McMenno was referring to.

Blade Dancer's just grasping at straws with this. The idea that McMenno specifically answered that question to 'protect' me is significantly less likely than answering a question about a role with two modifiers that don't make any sense paired with each other. The idea that there are possibilities within the setup to change things is a realistic possibility since the game has a lot of branching paths within it.

[Ankamius]

PeregrineV looks town right now, but I'll be more sure either way later on.

Why'd you have to roll scum bro?

I guarantee that I can read PeregrineV better than you can.

Nobody is reading him accurately by this point.

That you say you can is kinda my point.

Considering that it should've been pretty obvious that my read on him was an initial read and that I'd be looking to cement it later, I don't understand what your point is.

[Ankamius]

I have more games with PeregrineV than anyone else on the site. Similarly, my accuracy in reading him is higher than my accuracy in reading anybody else on the site.

[Ankamius]

I put Andrius as town because a lot of our thoughts and reads lined up really well.

[Ankamius]

Mcmenno feels town

I could see Ankamius and Blade Dancer as scum

Also since BD apparently is known to a lot of people by some other name, feel free to spill the beans so we can all be on the same page

Can you go into more detail on the second line specifically?

[Ankamius]

I'm getting really fucking sick of seeing 5 new pages every time I look at the thread.

[Ankamius]

I'm just going to sheep whatever wagon has the most amount of my townreads on it for the rest of the day. I'm done trying to sift through this shit.

Anyone who considers objecting needs to look at page 56 again and see just how completely useless the entire page was.

[Ankamius]

By the way, PeregrineV is town. I'm fairly sure about this.

[Ankamius]

Yeah SirCakez is town.

[Ankamius]

really

[Ankamius]

Titus is pretty blatantly town then, but I'm extremely disappointed that she legitimately believed that awful case on me.

[Ankamius]

For those paying attention to my earlier PerV meta discussion, do you find his complete silence on it of interest?

No, because he's been towning more and more with basically every post he's made today.

[Ankamius]

My townread on House is very stale. I still remember I liked the majority of his thought processes early in the day, but I haven't gotten that same impression at all since then.

[Ankamius]

Or I slept and worked between the two posts and everyone else argued about fucking

wingdings

for no reason in the meantime.

[Ankamius]

My impression of Nahdia after reading a bunch of their posts this game is that I can't read them.

[Ankamius]

Also: how does Peregrine know it's an ability? House is onto something.

We have a bastard game and at least one role (mine) known to be really bizarre. How is that a stretch, exactly?

[Ankamius]

The way Titus has been interacting with me is far more indicative of her being town than scum.

[Ankamius]

So your scumreads aren't solo reads?

[Ankamius]

You literally just said that you think it's likely that both Titus and I are scum.

[Ankamius]

There's a big difference between scumreading a bunch of people separately and thinking that they are all a team.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Nahdia

Solely to discourage a garbage PV lynch.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Nahdia
VOTE: Narna

[Ankamius]

Titus is probably town, Fire.

[Ankamius]

ehhhh, I guess it depends, actually. A quick look at her ISO after replacing herself with herself shows a different story.

[Ankamius]

blade dancer = titus, yeah

[Ankamius]

Ok yeah, the Blade Dancer engagement on me is not as town as it used to be anymore.

[Ankamius]

wait, Sly. Ank's hammer has negative flavour? where did you come up with that?

I forgot about this before because of the delay, but

my role has several different states it can have, and both Miller and Hated are part of those states.

By the same token, my role benefits from being on lynch wagons and hammering, so please be aware of this.

You must have missed the second line where I specifically state that advancing through the states has positive effects as well.

[Ankamius]

Well he did use the word "benefits".

Not in a "town" benefits way.

I'm starting to get really curious as to what your role entails since you apparently have a similar type of mechanic to mine, because I have a very hard time believing that you'd be making this series of posts if you had my role.

[Ankamius]

Firebringer: thank you. c= you know i change it like most people change clothes, but at least the look is consistent enough that i remain recognizable. your current one is cute too.
who besides Titus looks like scum?

Ankamius: how you word it doesn't matter to me so much as the flavour implications. i don't trust anything that gains power through being responsible or partially-responsible for a death.
i don't mind so much if scum hammers, on day 1, when there will probably only be one hammerable wagon in the first place. scum can't do much to alter the gamestate just by hammering. it's if powers are gained from it that i worry.

I do get powers, but the farther I go, the more dangerous it becomes for scum compared to town.

[Ankamius]

The problem is, it would take at least two hammers just to get anything that's worth much of anything.

[Ankamius]

it's if powers are gained from it that i worry.

That's exactly what Ank described in his role. I gain no powers from hammering.

...yet you have a reason to hammer?

[Ankamius]

I always find it funny when people complain about people not reading games when the games are either already or very likely going to breach 100 pages on day one. It's even funnier when people who are a huge cause of the spam are complaining about it.

[Ankamius]

I always find it funny when people complain about people not reading games when the games are either already or very likely going to breach 100 pages on day one. It's even funnier when people who are a huge cause of the spam are complaining about it.

One knows when one signs up for a large game, the page count is going to be large and a lot of reading is going to be required. Once roles are distributed, scum know they don't have to read as closely as town.

Large games also have a lot more useless drivel than smaller games.

It's also a very valid scum tactic to drown the game in drivel so that it's nearly impossible to read back through the game.

This shit goes both ways.

[Ankamius]

That's what I've been doing

[Ankamius]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

[Ankamius]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

why is Leonshade town, and what's invalid about the point Nahdia brought up?
to round things out nicely: what is the scum motivation in starting

another

wagon when there's support for others? do you think all of those wagons are on scum?
why are you still voting Narna?

I can easily see town coming back from a V/LA to the game thread more than doubling, then deciding that instead of trying to read through the entire thread that they haven't seen yet to try to catch up on the game, they'll instead sheep their strongest town read and try to catch up based on what's going on now instead. Trying to force a case on him not being willing to sheep onto his scumreads over this is scummy as shit, especially since his scumreads didn't exactly look strong beforehand.

PEdit: FFS GUYS

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Narna
VOTE: Nahdia

[Ankamius]

I'm keeping my vote on whichever one has more votes at the time. I'm completely okay with either of them hanging right now.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius: lazy. talk about why they're scum to you.

Don't be dense.

[Ankamius]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

why is Leonshade town, and what's invalid about the point Nahdia brought up?
to round things out nicely: what is the scum motivation in starting

another

wagon when there's support for others? do you think all of those wagons are on scum?
why are you still voting Narna?

I can easily see town coming back from a V/LA to the game thread more than doubling, then deciding that instead of trying to read through the entire thread that they haven't seen yet to try to catch up on the game, they'll instead sheep their strongest town read and try to catch up based on what's going on now instead. Trying to force a case on him not being willing to sheep onto his scumreads over this is scummy as shit, especially since his scumreads didn't exactly look strong beforehand.

PEdit: FFS GUYS

sure. i don't think the case is forced. i mean,

sheeping town who is also sheeping your nullish-townread?

when there's a wagon on both of your scumreads? it's valid to read that as town, but it also makes sense to read it as scum.
you didn't answer why scum want to start another wagon here.

The bolded proves you don't understand the point. He's sheeping his strongest town read

because he can't trust his reads to still be accurate.

It doesn't matter why scum want to start another wagon. A game literally just ended where scum did nonsensical votes on day one and it allowed one of the scum members to coast solely based on that for a whole 5-6 days. This is just how day one works.

[Ankamius]

I'm the other vote on the wagon. I'm not budging on this.

[Ankamius]

Menno if it's decided he's the lynch.

[Ankamius]

Are you sure you're town?

[Ankamius]

Oh good, because that statement indicated otherwise.

[Ankamius]

I'm here and not hammering yet. I will at least wait for Snarky.

[Ankamius]

1. McMenno isn't someone I'm enthusiastic about lynching
2. SlySly 'reached out' to me between the point where Gamma put McMenno to L-1 and when I was able to check the thread again
3. Nobody else indicated they wanted to hammer

If one of those three wasn't part of the equation, I almost certainly would've hammered instead of waited.

[Ankamius]

This back and forth reminds me a lot of when Titus first started tunneling me this game.

[Ankamius]

Oh hey, are we finally lynching scum?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Narna

[Ankamius]

I thought I was pretty clear before that I prefer you or Nahdia hanging today.

[Ankamius]

You guys couldn't even push through a wagon I was on?

Wow.

[Ankamius]

I guess I can't be that mad since like 90% of the thread is reason to be pissed off at this game, but eh.

[Ankamius]

I can understand miller, but investigative?

Yup

I've never seen a miller with investigative power. I've seen lots of millers and none of them had more than a vote. I don't buy this at all. What's more likely is that scum miller claimed then lurked through the day only to come in and quick hammer obvtown, then got their kill blocked at night.

I'd hammer this as an alternative if the Ns can't be narrowed down to 1.

Nice shot, Maxous!

I've been a Miller + One-shot BP + Vig in a game before.

[Ankamius]

Also in case anyone cares since it barely even matters, I haven't advanced any stastes and thus still am not Miller or hated.

[Ankamius]

it's not just you.

andrius, Sir Cakez and ankamius are at this as well

so..fine. let's just flip Narna.

I'm doing what now?

[Ankamius]

Who tipped the edge towards the magna lynch?

That's who I want dead today.

[Ankamius]

No, my states aren't flavored.

[Ankamius]

House's posting was slowly becoming less and less town over time.

[Ankamius]

What is the list of people that are pushing for a McMenno lynch right now?

[Ankamius]

Not Chara, Narna, Firebringer, Creature, Gamma Emerald

[Ankamius]

That's a list of people who were at both pivotal points that made MagnaOfIllusion the dominant wagon.

Oh look, it's a coincidence that the names popping up in both are... Not Chara and Narna. The other three are effectively in my scum list until I can decipher more about day one.

[Ankamius]

I don't think I can get much more from that without flips.

[Ankamius]

I'd hammer McMenno in a heartbeat if the lynch wasn't so bad.

[Ankamius]

Not Chara and Narna are both on the current McMenno wagon. That's more than enough for me.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Narna

[Ankamius]

PeregrineV, that question was answered with the claim itself.

[Ankamius]

My role includes a killing component.

[Ankamius]

My role includes a killing component.

Can we use it as a dual lynch?
Where are the kills?

As long as we keep making really bad lynches, I'm not making a single kill this game.

[Ankamius]

02 SirCakez - Unhelpful
03 Giovanni il Pellegrino - Used to be helpful in the games I played with him
04 Maxous - Meh

05 Creature*

06 PeregrineV - Lurker!PeregrineV = Scum!PeregrineV

07 Titus

08 Shiro* - Usually a lurker

11 Nahdia
12 Firebringer

13 Not Chara - Meh, actually pushing the game

14 Ankamius
15 SlySly

17 SnarkySnowman*** - Usually a lurker
19 Almost50 - Presence lacking
20 Leonshade - Good to start
21 Andrius - Not doing anything unlike his town!self

22 massive*

06 PeregrineV - Lurker!PeregrineV = Scum!PeregrineV
08 Shiro* - Usually a lurker
17 SnarkySnowman*** - Usually a lurker

PV lurks hardcore until late game. If I'm wrong here someone else correct me, but framing this as scum pv while listing Shiro and Snarky as chronic lurkers seems manipulative.

PeregrineV is town.

[Ankamius]

My role includes a killing component.

Can we use it as a dual lynch?
Where are the kills?

As long as we keep making really bad lynches, I'm not making a single kill this game.

...is this you calling the Narna lynch a bad one?

ya definitely

that's why I'm voting him

[Ankamius]

I didn't read anything past like 4375 or w/e

Just looking at this page, it seems like there's some kind of important stuff there apparently?

[Ankamius]

So basically, we finally got a lynch that wasn't terrible and it was forcibly denied?

[Ankamius]

Is Ankamius lurking?

Is Ankamius lurking?

What's your definition of lurking? #saltysnark

Lacking presence

Me lacking presence has a lot more to do with everyone else than me the majority of the time.

[Ankamius]

That's pretty impressive with how little I've actually done the past 1-2 weeks

[Ankamius]

fuck it

VOTE: Not Chara

[Ankamius]

My gut's telling me that while the govern was bad, it doesn't mean he's scum.

[Ankamius]

1. Scumread since my first catchup
2. Part of the really bad Leonshade wagon day one (ftr, Narna became my big target mainly from this too)
3. Both part of the reason the MagnaOfIllusion lynch happened day one and pushed for McMenno lynch day 2

[Ankamius]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

why is Leonshade town, and what's invalid about the point Nahdia brought up?
to round things out nicely: what is the scum motivation in starting

another

wagon when there's support for others? do you think all of those wagons are on scum?
why are you still voting Narna?

I can easily see town coming back from a V/LA to the game thread more than doubling, then deciding that instead of trying to read through the entire thread that they haven't seen yet to try to catch up on the game, they'll instead sheep their strongest town read and try to catch up based on what's going on now instead. Trying to force a case on him not being willing to sheep onto his scumreads over this is scummy as shit, especially since his scumreads didn't exactly look strong beforehand.

PEdit: FFS GUYS

[Ankamius]

I'm really annoyed that the one person who seems to see why Leon's govern isn't necessarily scummy is also the person I have one of the biggest scumreads on outside of it.

[Ankamius]

Look at the vote count, Cakez.

[Ankamius]

I'm really annoyed that the one person who seems to see why Leon's govern isn't necessarily scummy is also the person I have one of the biggest scumreads on outside of it.

*shrug* Leon could hypothetically be wrong.

Yet, unilaterally throwing town back on obvious scum with that trajectory without even asking doesn't appear townie. If it is town, it cannot be trusted to actually let us do good lynches.

It's such a remarkably stupid scum play that I feel it is literally insulting him to think it was one.

[Ankamius]

It's such a remarkably stupid scum play that I feel it is literally insulting him to think it was one.

I'll try to make sense for once in this game then I'm going to go back to my usual, OK?

Discarding a scummy behaviour as too scummy to come from scum is exactly what scum!Me may do in an attempt to rescue a scum buddy. In other words, there is no such thing as "too scummy to come from scum" bc it's all a case of WIFOM.

1:logic /off
2:annoyance /on
3:loop 2:

In what universe does what I stated equal "too scummy to be scum"?

[Ankamius]

zzz

I feel like I need to put my lists somewhere that isn't in the thread because just about everything is still being drowned out in noise.

If I remember, I'll go reread the govern and the immediate aftermath. That's another pit I'm pretty sure scum are dwelling in.

[Ankamius]

I'm not posting here because in order to say much else, I'd need to do work. That requires filtering through noise.

[Ankamius]

Maxous could very well be scum this game.

[Ankamius]

What exactly is the case on Creature?

[Ankamius]

I'm just going to point out that I have a strongman kill as one of my possible roles, so it's very possible that scum have it as well.

[Ankamius]

Also I'm completely unconvinced that Creature is a good lynch today.

[Ankamius]

I legitimately feel that lynching Leonshade might be the biggest mistake town can possibly make this game.

[Ankamius]

I got a bad feeling when the govern happened and people instantly hopped onto hard-pushing Leonshade because of it.
I'm getting a very similar feeling at the wagon that's going on right now.

Andrius: I think you're being taken advantage of here. Please promise me that if Leonshade is lynched today and flips scum, you'll take a closer look at the wagon on him up to this point. Something's way off this game and I'm thinking that unraveling how scum are using the govern will be a huge step towards figuring out what exactly feels wrong about the game state.

[Ankamius]

Honestly, I think the last 10-20 pages or so could be really good intel once we have flips.

[Ankamius]

The Creature wagon is just as bad.

[Ankamius]

I don't know man, something tells me that the govern just wasn't a scum move. I'm getting the feeling that with Leon and Narna being lynched back to back, scum will have enough time to cover up what they did so that it doesn't come back to haunt them.

[Ankamius]

Andrius, if I end up dead within the next couple nights, promise me you'll investigate what I've been investigating. This type of thing has a tendency of getting me killed when I'm accurate.

[Ankamius]

I'm thinking that Leonshade is town (which doesn't indicate anything for Narna). I think whoever's town on this wagon is biasing too much towards them being scumpartners and scum are trying to support that.

[Ankamius]

SlySly, try reading my posts before commenting on what you believe I'm thinking.

[Ankamius]

I've been consistent with my thoughts on the Leonshade govern+wagon and you're managed to completely miss the mark on both of your comments.

[Ankamius]

Your reasoning for believing Leon-scum and Narna-town is possible makes no sense.

[Ankamius]

Sly, you're forgetting about the part where Leonshade was already in a good spot and there's no way in hell he wouldn't get backlash for governing someone who a lot of people have been significantly scumreading for a long time.

[Ankamius]

One other thing that doesn't make sense; if Narna is town, she's nearly guaranteed to be mislynched this game. Why would scum lose that to get someone who is widely townread towncred?

It's nonsensical as hell.

[Ankamius]

Narna has been part of the N-block from the beginning. I would hardly call her "widely townread". Go read what Leon himself said about her right before he did a 180 and governed.

lol

[Ankamius]

Entirely possible.

[Ankamius]

Narna has been part of the N-block from the beginning. I would hardly call her "widely townread". Go read what Leon himself said about her right before he did a 180 and governed.

lol

it's only funny until they both flip scum.

Are you sure you're town?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Leonshade

[Ankamius]

If we're going to be going through with this, I'm getting shit out of it.

[Ankamius]

I become a miller tomorrow, but what I gain should make scum think twice of killing me tonight if they were thinking about it before.

[Ankamius]

I'll have more tomorrow since I'm literally only here right now because I can't sleep, but whoever targeted me last night, it went through as expected. You know who you are.

[Ankamius]

Narna claiming an investigate on Shiro is basically claiming scum, although I just finished a game where Narna misplayed a PR, so :/

[Ankamius]

By the way, I can confirm that Narna should have gotten a guilty result on Shiro solely from the Miller tag.

[Ankamius]

I do enjoy how only people I scumread right now are voting Shiro, and townreads are voting Narna or A50

Yeah, the Shiro wagon is awful even disregarding the investigation.

[Ankamius]

Fire, we have two millers in this game, one of which has already confirmed how the miller role works in this game and how it interacts with Narna's role.

[Ankamius]

Andrius, remind me to skim through my own ISO and make lists.

[Ankamius]

The SlySly nightkill screwed my brains even worse than this game already has.

Yeah, the SlySly kill bugs me a lot.

[Ankamius]

The connection doesn't seem to be reads, especially since Nosferatu was mostly suspecting the N-crew along with a lot of us (and isn't the first one who would die to protect them either).

This is really bugging me now.

[Ankamius]

Oh, I cut out the part where I said that both the zakk and Nosferatu kills bugged me too.

Well, they bug me too.

[Ankamius]

I noticed that Nosferatu also was heavily suspecting the Almost50 slot, but zakk was very adamant about that slot being 100% town, so that track is out the window along with my idea that the reason people are dying is because of their reads.

Now my working theory is that people who are proving themselves stubborn and potentially difficult to manipulate in the future are the ones dying.

That would mean that the 'town leaders' are either being manipulated or are scum themselves.

Speaking of which, the people that spearheaded the Leonshade wagon need to be flipped ASAP.

[Ankamius]

My townread on you has never been strong, Andrius. What I'm feeling now is more I need to switch around how I'm thinking about the game and see where my reads are wrong.

[Ankamius]

Shiro: Describe how your miller role works ASAP, please.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Narna

[Ankamius]

That means that Shiro's version of miller is the same version of miller that mine is.

That means Narna is lying about being able to get an innocent result on Shiro, since my role PM specifically states that every investigative ability will return a guilty if I am in one of my miller states.

[Ankamius]

To any smartass who thinks I'm bullshitting, remember that I posted this earlier today:

By the way, I can confirm that Narna should have gotten a guilty result on Shiro solely from the Miller tag.

[Ankamius]

To everyone else: either you think Narna is scum, or you think both Shiro and I are scum.

There is

zero

room for error in this.

[Ankamius]

That means that Shiro's version of miller is the same version of miller that mine is.

That means Narna is lying about being able to get an innocent result on Shiro,

since my role PM specifically states that every investigative ability will return a guilty if I am in one of my miller states.

Ank, why didn't you make that clear earlier? Most millers don't work like that, and to just tack on things people show up guilty to as they appear defeats the point of claiming miller early.

You also have to imagine that a miller fakeclaim would say they are immune to all investigations once incriminating evidence presents itself, regardless of Ank's role pm.

What reason do I have to make that clear immediately?

If people want to know that information, they can ask. Until then, anyone who can investigate anything should be wary of this in a bastard game regardless.

[Ankamius]

To everyone else: either you think Narna is scum, or you think both Shiro and I are scum.

There is

zero

room for error in this.

Not true.

If Narna asked "what result would I get if I targeted someone who was a miller, as in the traditional normal miller role", they'd get the answer they got. Skull isn't going to tell Narna the specifics of

your

role.

I'd be more compelled to accept this if Narna's kneejerk reaction wasn't to try to discredit my role instead of trying to dispel this contradiction.

[Ankamius]

To everyone else: either you think Narna is scum, or you think both Shiro and I are scum.

There is

zero

room for error in this.

Not true.

If Narna asked "what result would I get if I targeted someone who was a miller, as in the traditional normal miller role", they'd get the answer they got. Skull isn't going to tell Narna the specifics of

your

role.

I'd be more compelled to accept this if Narna's kneejerk reaction wasn't to try to discredit my role instead of trying to dispel this contradiction.

Never mind this, I misread something.

UNVOTE: Narna

I'll wait until people get responses, then.

[Ankamius]

Firebringer, I'm curious. You said on Day 3 (I think) "I gave everyone the thing." Could you tell us what that meant now?

Troll response: I converted the game to all town.
Real response: I neighborized someone.

And here I thought you were the one who targeted me last night.

Welp.

[Ankamius]

Whatever.

VOTE: Shiro

I will wait to do analysis until tomorrow thanks to the deadline.

[Ankamius]

Really wish I could hammer but I expect 2 votes would appear before I'm off work, so.

[Ankamius]

Posting to say my vote is effectively on Narna and I'm going to insist on hammering.

[Ankamius]

I'll believe there's a bus driver when I see it.

I'm unimpressed with all the innocent results going around. I'm almost certain one is a lie.

Narna is very likely scum.
Nahdia is very likely scum.
Almost50 is very likely scum.
Maxous is likely scum.
Massive is likely scum.
Giovanni is likely scum.
Not Chara is likely scum.

That leaves (Sircakez, Creature, PeregrineV, Firebinger, BigYoshiFan, Andrius) as my townlist for right now.

[Ankamius]

And I frankly don't give a shit about anyone's innocents. I'd be very surprised if scum didn't have immunity of any kind to anything.

[Ankamius]

Nahdia's response to my scumlist is one of the scummiest things in the entire thread.

[Ankamius]

I'm also going to point out that I played in another Skullduggery game where one scum didn't have the ability to kill until three (if I remember correctly?) town players were affected by my permanent roleblock ability.

Skullduggery is more than capable of making a game with the scumteam having unique tools, so don't assume that every innocent is truly an innocent.

[Ankamius]

Nahdia's response to my scumlist is one of the scummiest things in the entire thread.

Yeah, step off chump. You don't get to call over 50% of the remaining players at least "likely" scum and then retaliate when someone calls you the fuck out for it. I'm not calling you scum, I'm telling you to get your damn head in the game.

Lol.

[Ankamius]

Narna, did you pay any attention to the miller claims?

[Ankamius]

There's literally no possible way that is fact.

[Ankamius]

I'll be back tomorrow.

If someone gets hammered while I'm gone, I'm taking that as a scumclaim and death tunneling them for the rest of the game.

[Ankamius]

Didn't I just say that Narna's innos are unreliable regardless of your opinion of him?

[Ankamius]

Nahdia isn't surviving to the dawn of tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

I am fully willing to hammer any and all of Narna, Nahdia, and Almost50.

For the newer people in the game, I'm hammering today and will not budge on getting it.

[Ankamius]

I'm just going to point out that even if a massclaim is agreed on, I'm not fullclaiming.

[Ankamius]

Reaffirming my scumread of Almost50 for that reads list.

[Ankamius]

I already outlined why his innocents aren't reliable, massive.

[Ankamius]

Here you go massive:


Subject: Persona 4 Mafia [GAME OVER]

Greetings, Bulbazak, and welcome to

Persona 4 Mafia

! In this game, you will be playing the role of...

Izanami

Godmother

Aligned with the Mafia

There are some who call you evil, wicked, and cruel, but they know nothing. You simply want to help humanity ascend to the next level of their existence by manifesting their true desires. If mankind desires destruction and chaos, then it is your duty to give it to them. Is death really so undesirable? Is it truly the worst thing that can happen to a person? Those who condemn you and disapprove of your disregard for human life do so out of ignorance and fear. They are the true monsters here, not you. All you want to do is give mankind the sweet release that they beg for, and you still stop at nothing to satisfy this desire.

The other members of the Scum team include...

• Ankamius (Ameno-Sagiri, Permanent Roleblocker)
  
  
• Lalendra/Scorpious (Shadow Teddie, Tracker & Watcher)
  
  
• Not_Mafia/Flameaxe (Mitsuo Kubo, Goon)

You may communicate with your allies in the Mafia Faction Private Topic. This thread is currently only open during the pre-game and during the night phases, but day-talk can be acquired. See below for details.

Daytime Abilities:

During the day, you may vote to lynch any living player in the game.

Nighttime Abilities:

During the night phase, you and the rest of the Mafia team can choose to kill any living player in the game. Only one of you can perform the kill. You cannot perform the factional kill unless you are the last remaining member of your team.

Passive Abilities:

If an investigative role targets you during the night phase, they will receive a result as though you were Town-aligned.

Additionally, you have access to a variety of passive abilities depending on how many players are currently enshrouded by the Bewildering Fog that is produced by Ameno-Sagiri. These abilities are as follows:

Spoiler:

• 1 Player Enshrouded in Bewildering Fog
  = You become an Encryptor and the Mafia Faction Private Topic will be open during the day phases as long as you are still alive.
  
• 2 Players Enshrouded in Bewildering Fog
  = You can perform the factional kill during the night phase even if you are not the last remaining member of your team.
  
• 3 Players Enshrouded in Bewildering Fog
  = You become Bulletproof and are impervious to killing actions during the night phases.
  
• 4 Players Enshrouded in Bewildering Fog
  = If you perform the factional kill at night, it is a Strongman action that will punch through any protective, redirecting, interfering, or role-blocking actions that may exist in the game.
  
• 5 Players Enshrouded in Bewildering Fog
  = You will be able to perform the factional kill during the day phase. Doing so will replace the factional kill on the following night phase.

Please be aware that if Ameno-Sagiri is ever lynched or killed, all of the Bewildering Fog in the game will be dispelled.

Win Condition:

You win when your team comprises at least 50% of the living player list (or nothing can prevent this from happening) and there is at least one member of the Mafia faction still alive.

Safe-Claim

If you ever feel that a safe-claim is necessary, I can guarantee that nobody else in the game has received the following role PM:

Spoiler:

Greetings, Bulbazak, and welcome to

Persona 4 Mafia

! In this game, you will be playing the role of...

Yosuke Hanamura

Vanilla Townie

Aligned with the Town

Worry not, Town, because everyone's favorite goofball has arrived on the scene! Ever-cheerful Yosuke Hanamura is the kind of friend who will stay with you through thick and thin, always offering support and kind words when you need it most. Though he may be impetuous and reckless at times, he's a good person at heart and will always go out of his way to brighten your day. You can count on him to help Town find the source of the murders plaguing Inaba and restore peace to this serene community once again.

Daytime Abilities:

During the day, you may vote to lynch any living player in the game.

Nighttime Abilities:

None.

Passive Abilities:

None.

Win Condition:

You win when all non-Town players have been eliminated from the game and there is at least one Town player still alive.

Please reply to this PM to let me know that you understand your role and that you have read and understand the game's rules. The game will not begin until I receive confirmations from at least 18 players.

Fixed the spoiler tag.
~Skull

[Ankamius]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Ankamius]

if we were to lynch Almost50, I'd want someone I really distrust like BigYoshiFan to be forced to hammer.

No. Ankamius hammers, so he learns a valuable lesson to actually READ WHAT I TYPE.

I'm not pissing away my role to test that out.

[Ankamius]

Where did you get the idea that Titus was shot for neighborhood things?

[Ankamius]

Also why are you assuming that nobody was added to the neighborhood N4?

Your sureness about these things is really bizarre.

[Ankamius]

Never mind, I see why #6569 isn't relevant.

You would think that the identity of #4 would be revealed by now if Andrius, Firebringer, or #4 wanted it known.

[Ankamius]

Almost50, nothing about your neighborhood speculation makes any sense.

[Ankamius]

Look at the post directly after that, bud.

Explain why you're so sure that the neighborhood has scum in it. Now.

[Ankamius]

All I know about the neighborhood is that Titus, Andrius, and Shiro were added to the neighborhood by Firebringer in that order.

Quote where your basis that something happened in the neighborhood happened.

[Ankamius]

Sircakez: Were you added to the neighborhood on night 4?

[Ankamius]

PeregrineV is not hard to read. He's town.

[Ankamius]

Accountant/Pine: Did anyone get neighborized and/or attempted to get neighborized and did they go into why? I don't care about the details beyond whether SirCakez was neighborized or not.

[Ankamius]

So basically, now we can't assume Giovanni's innocents are accurate either.

[Ankamius]

My role is divided into a bunch of separate states, one of which is active at any one time. Some of my states have the "miller" modifier. Some of my states have the "hated" modifier.

I move states by either being on a wagon that is lynched, or hammering a player. Hammering a player advances me through more states than being on a lynch wagon.

Naturally, because I have negative effects of my role

and

I don't initially have any of those negative states

and

I have a relatively large amount of states, the powers I gain over time are strong as fuck to balance them out.

[Ankamius]

I have a distant memory of not being around at all between the point when Magna became the dominant wagon over Narna and when Magna was lynched.

[Ankamius]

I was vanilla up until N3; I've been a miller since.

Once I get a hammer, I will replace miller with hated.

[Ankamius]

Mathblade: Can you give me the pieces that you are seeing and how you're piecing them together?

[Ankamius]

Mathblade: Can you give me the pieces that you are seeing and how you're piecing them together?

1) Nahdia and Maxous are claimed roleblockers.
2) Only one person in 5 days has claimed roleblocked conveniently confirmed by Maxous.
3) A lot of people have been asked if they were roleblocked thus luring investigatives/actioners.
4) Maxous's ability failed N3. This means either there is a third roleblocker (unlikely) or Maxous is lying about being a roleblocker or Nahdia is lying about not having targeted.

With me so far?

I'll have to continue this tomorrow, I have to go to sleep. I'll double check these sometime after work.

[Ankamius]

Now that Nahdia has somehow also confirmed the Shiro miller bit, Ank needs to explain this.

By the way, I can confirm that Narna should have gotten a guilty result on Shiro solely from the Miller tag.

Bonus, check out this posturing

Narna claiming an investigate on Shiro is basically claiming scum, although I just finished a game where Narna misplayed a PR, so :/

My role PM made it pretty fucking clear what a miller is in this game.

[Ankamius]

The only two possible options are these:

1. Shiro's miller and my miller are different millers (unlikely, my role PM says "Miller" in the exact same way Shiro's did and from my question to Shiro on how his miller worked indicated that he had the same wording mine did)
2. Nahdia is lying his ass off to cover for Narna, because there is no other possible way that they're telling the truth since I would trust the mod's statement that role PMs are not lies over their BS statements.