Micro 650: Mislead 2: A Maze of our Own Devising (Restarted)

[Realeo]

What's up

VOTE: realeo

What is this vote? That's lek the most lazy RVS vote evah.

[Realeo]

Hi Not_Mafia!

[Realeo]

Slide to the left, slide to the right, criss cross, criss cross

Some advanced version of Tinder?

[Realeo]

But I also think realeo's post needs an explanation.

The first post? You just voted me. I know that you vote me due to scumbuddy with you back in The Purge, but please, be deligent when putting RVS reasoning.

The exchange with Not_Mafia? I ran Open 650 : Duck, Duck, Goose!, Not_Mafia was the scum and he played the troll!scum. I want to know if he's playing the same.

[Realeo]

If I understand the setup correctly, we must find all the town AND both scum.

It's different from standard mafia where you can get away with only doing one.

VOTE: Realeo

This guy has gotta go.

If this is a normal lynch game, I can relate to this vote. Ok, so this guy has gotta go. Let's see him flip.

But under this mechanic, what are you trying to achieve from voting me? Ok, so this guy has gotta go. Then what? Distrust? Flee?

[Realeo]

Ok. What time zones are you guys?

[Realeo]

I keep rereading this and I townread Vedith

VOTE: Vedith

[Realeo]

Why are you voting a townread?

Not_Mafia is voting his scumread and he want to distrust his nomination. I want to do the other away around. I want to vote my townread and trust my nomination.

Remember that town have to lead a safe way. Town!Vedith will lead to a safe path and I will follow him. Vedith is safe. I am safe.

After all, I am more confindent with my townreading than to my scumreading.

[Realeo]

Apologies if this is mostly unintelligible nonsense but I wanted to get thoughts out now so that I or Tammy can decode them in the morning.

-I think that during the early game that it might be wise to elect a townread in order to get confirmed town guidance later in the game. This is a fine path to take if we can confirm a good strong townread, but if not...

-Early game it also could be a good idea to confirm someone who we can't read very well and then flee immediately after. This essentially buys us free information and a confirmed town who can extend their life by fleeing for a day.

-Coordination will increase our chances of winning; a couple of people volunteering to distrust/trust a lynch means that we reduce chances of losing outright.

I agree with point 1 (which is what I am doing right now) and point 2, but point 3 is a little bit dangerous. While it's dangerous for town to mistrust, a mistrust doesn't hurt for scum. Then we have to solve 2 problems (a)We have to make sure that the volunteer is scum (b)We have to correctly predict the flip.

[Realeo]

Wait.... My rebutal for #3 is wrong. But I hope the message is sent.

[Realeo]

I think some people still want you to address your post#15 back on page 1, though.

#15 is Not_Mafia's post. I have addressed my awkward entry at 42

[Realeo]

but I still believe It's in town's best interest to attempt the scum's mazes as soon as possible, thus killing them.

I can see your logic as well. The problem is that I reckon that it's going to be a split-vote? Like 1/3 flee, 1/3 trust, 1/3 distrust

D1 -> 9 players -> 6 players
D2 -> 6 players -> 4 players
D3 -> 4 players -> 2 players
D4 -> 2 players -> 1 player
D5 -> Penultimate flip #1
D6 -> Penultimate flip #2

How confindent are you that you can find both scum by the end of D5 or D6? We have 4 mislynches--which is better than a class 7-2 with 3 mislynches, but it potentially easier to mislynch with no nightkills.

[Realeo]

On second thought, there maybe a silver lining for hunting the scum. Unlike Purge, I will keep my options open.

[Realeo]

But I also think realeo's post needs an explanation.

The first post? You just voted me. I know that you vote me due to scumbuddy with you back in The Purge, but please, be deligent when putting RVS reasoning.

Why do I need to put reasoning in an RVS vote? 0_0

That's why I call you lazy.

TBH, that "you're lazy" statement is supposed to be a friendly hi, until Not_Mafia made a fuss of it.

[Realeo]

That...ok

It just seemed like an overreaction.

This quote below is fucking overreaction?

What's up

VOTE: realeo

What is this vote? That's lek the most lazy RVS vote evah.

I used the word 'lek' and 'evah', which obviously means I am joking.

And really, it was better for me to not give a reason there, since the purpose was mainly to pressure you so I could get a read on you. Remember I strong townread you in the purge before I got my role pm.

I'll keep this in mind for later.

What do you think about imperium

I still don't get your overreaction part, however, you do said that you didn't expect me to be mafia when you replace in in mafia PT, so I have to give you some shadow of doubt for a valid reasoning. I owned 2/3 of the town and I can see you being paranoid after seeing it first hand.

I nulled at imperium. Why you ask about imperium? Tenshii catched my attention but that's it. Just getting my attention but still null.

[Realeo]

If it doesn't inconvenience you, could you perhaps make future annotation of which head is talking?

+1.

[Realeo]

I am having hard time deciding if you're a genuine town scared the heck out of me--because I can clearly see some paranoia, which is new for me. I know RC is good at scum but I was 'well ok. Another game with RC'--or scum seeing me as a threat...

About imperium, it was obvious that his 29 was being sarcastic about you two.

I was going to vote Realeo and call him definite scum for an awkward post just because someone said that scum like to jump on awkward posts or something like that.

[Realeo]

'we can kinda wing it d1'.

Explanation please.

[Realeo]

That is an awkard plan for "a plan", but consider me in for sake of the argument. The next step is eliminating people from the scumpool.

I reckon this means "trust the townread", ye? I mean, what else is eliminating?

If that's the case, why not eliminate from the get go, which is what I have been advocating?

[Realeo]

but we can on d2?

[Realeo]

Consider me /in for your plan, because that's what I have been advocating. I have problems with the d1 plan and the scumpool idea--but it's a little bit out of reach to analyze it now so d1 plan only.

[Realeo]

So yeah, Infinity insta-distrust.

Learning from The Purge, town can make stupid town spec sometimes =/ In my opinion, infinity has a valid concern, but a stupid solution.

And to be honest, reso, you are cherry-picking. You are not being fair. Infinity's strategy is not an apple to apple comparison to podobog's plan. The podobog's plan is wasting joker. Infinity's plan is just trying to solve polarized read first. Take me for instance. I have 2 scumreads and 1 townread. You maybe want to solve me first when you can easily hedge your bet.

Infinity, is my interpretation is correct? The wording 'wing it d1' makes me confused but this is my best stab???

@reso:

What do you think of Tenshii?

I'm thinking that my plan, with the modification that at most 3 people distrust and 3 people flee, might work.

No. No. No. Don't do that. Can be manipulated. Remember Ircher's plan? If we're going to do your plan, then let they decide. Never dictate a vote.

[Realeo]

Like I said, to me, this game is about putting my life and my trust into the hands of the person in charge of their segment.

I concur with that and I myself want to take that approach (hence why I rejected the motion of limited flee and limited distrust.) I agree that this game is an individualistic game. However, eventhough the flip is an individualistic work, the nomination is a team work.

I agree that no one should dictate who I think what will flip, but I think it's a good idea to dictate the vote to a certain target. The motion is to vote the townread first. I don't think anyone should forced me to predict 'TOWN' when I scumread the nomination, however, if the majority townreads him, I see no problem nominating him. They want to trust him, go ahead. I will nominate him so they can follow him. But I will distrust him.

Infinity's plan is just trying to solve polarized read first.

Take me for instance. I have 2 scumreads and 1 townread. You maybe want to solve me first when you can easily hedge your bet.

You concur that nobody should dictate who we trust, right? We can agree on that.

I am polarized because people have two split views. Some views me for scum, some views me as town. Under the concept of peer pressure ("Realeo is town! No idiot, Realeo is scum!") somebody may lose their balls and decided to flee.

If you don't lose your balls, congrats. But others may. If the lose their balls later on, they may don't already have their flee left. As a precuation that you may already don't have your flee facing me later on, why don't face me now? You agree that only himself may dictate who is going to he trust, correct? It's possible that someone decides to flee due to losing confidence due to split view. If that's the case, let give him the chance to flee if he want to. If you don't, don't use it. If you want to, then I maybe the hardest case (judged by the dynamic of the game. That can change, obviously) so maybe the best time to flee is now.

But if you don't think that I will be the hardest case, then don't flee.

I don't think I do a good job explaining, but hope that I send the message.

[Realeo]

Insert clash between reso and infinity

I fail to understand the debate. English please. Both of you.

[Realeo]

At first I though we should let everyone vote how they want d1. This is what I meant by "wing it". But I think we should try to hedge against them being town. This is why some people would joker (but not too many) and not too many people would distrust.

I don't see how this can be manipulated...

Say scum!Reso and scum!Vedith.

If 3 maximum distrust, scum!Reso can took one of the slot. Boom! 2 towns and 1 mafia remaining. Insert scum!Reso manipulating the remaining 2 town. Not only with words, but with voting nomination...He can use his voting power to force a certain nomination, waste their flee for the next 8 mornings.

I have no problem with scum manipulating as tree stump as even though he has persuasion power, he doesn't have political power. A scum with both persuasion and political power? I'm shuddering. That what makes LYLO scary, right?

[Realeo]

What would make the game almost unwinnable for town is if 5 townies distrust on d1 and the player flips town. Now 2 townies each have to try to guess the entire scumteam.

Valid argument, but

Que Sera, Sera

If we town fail, then we fail. Even with an objective read, we can still fail. An objective read + manipulation is even harder.

And about your vote at Reso. I will defend Reso at that case. The rule didn't specify if Mafia is trapped, than later on is attempted. The rule only said that he will die, but nothing about flip. I literally ctrl+f and there is no word of 'flip'.

I mistaken myself with Predict the Flip, because in PtF, it is flipped. It is not specified in this game but I assumed so. Thus, I think we have casual misunderstanding, gentleman.

[Realeo]

No. No. No. You miss the point

Say scum!Vedith traps himself in morning 1. Boom! Then his path got attempted at morning 2. Vedith dies naturally.

You can't tell whether Vedith dies as town or as scum. In Predict the Flip, it's speciffied that the nominee is flipped. It's not in this game, apparently.

How about this.

We make the towniest players decide whether to trust or distrust first

, so that scum have less of a chance of influencing townies' decisions. We have an absolute maximum of 4 people fleeing and 4 people distrusting, but each person can decide for themselves based on their read on the creator of the current section and their reads on the people who have already trusted/distrusted/fled.

The best way to know if someone is the townies is by voting for him at D1 and trust him. He flipped town! Hallejuah! He flipped scum? Well, we're dead anyway when we make the towniest to make our call..

[Realeo]

Do you have any reads on people yet? I'm seeing a lot of setup discussion and not so much scumhunting from you.

I have on Vedith. Should be obvious that I'm currently trying to solve you and reso by the exchange between two of us. About others? Activity overview should be the answer.

[Realeo]

@pepto

What is your read?

[Realeo]

@Realeo, can you elaborate on your Vedith townread?

I have played scum with Vedith and moderated a game where Vedith(Dishy Dishington) becomes scum. I never liked either opening. The fact that I like his opening is a flag for me. Granted, it's just meta, but hey, read can change right? Until that read change, I am townreading him.

Is this allowed? But yeah I'll buy it. Not too sure if going town D1 is optimal though.

If doing this is ban-worthy, please do it. I did not mean any harm from doing so, but I will take the punishment.

This is a scum lean for me actually.

This is like the classic scene of a game of Resistance. "I swear that I am the rebel. I will flip the role card if I can but the rule can't!"

An AtE is normal.

I have no problem with your reasoning of replacing out. In fact, good luck with your trial run! But

{deleted details of the deleted section of #130 — callforjudgement}

is not, especially since it's

quite premature

. 7 days is a long time. Chill out and let your replacement speak for himself! From my experience of playing scum at last game, you cannot hold anyone accountable for anything they say.

[Realeo]

In the interest of other topic......so Not_Mafia posted in 3 or 4 other games but not in this game. He better explains the scum claim thingy when he comes.

Spoiler: @callofjudgement

I'm sure this post doesn't breach rule since I didn't put any adjective that give any substantial information.

OKAY: "Zoraster is alive in 4 games and is posting in those games, but he hasn't posted here in 3 days."
NOT OKAY: "Zoraster is alive in 4 games where he's posting lengthy posts." <The violation here is mentioning that the posts are LONG. This is a substantive statement.>

[Realeo]

VOTE: Realeo

You already did my darling.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Realeo]

I'll be catching up once home tomorrow although I see not much has been said over the weekend.

Yeah this game needs something to get it moving again

This is not moving?

VOTE: Realeo

You already did my darling.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Help me extract something from him. Vedith, you know that my concern is valid.