Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

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First

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Scum have day chat hence all the fast confirmations huh.

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VOTE: LUV

This is a scum PR we need to get riD of ASAP.

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This game just got easy .

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Kidding lol

Hello eager, do you have any early reads?

Anyone else can also answer this.

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@Boring You don't even have a witty one-liner to go with your vote... that's really... boring...

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I like it when people make Beowulf jokes. Do you not like people referencing your name in jokes?

QUESTIONS FOR EVERYBODY

1) What is your preferred alignment?

2) Are you often mislynched? If so, why is that?

3) Can you describe your play style concisely in one sentence?

4) If you were the deciding vote at lylo with the slot above you, and the slot below you, which player would you lynch and why? (Ex: 1 would be deciding between 13, and 2. 2 would be deciding between 1 and 3. 3 would decide between 2 and 4.)

5) How excited are you for this game?

Nah Eager is lame, you're the one I want to see in action!

What am I? Chopped liver?

1. Mafia, cause I love the wifom. But I probably play better as town.

2. I'm not often mislynched. Occasionally might be a better word.

3. I'm a good analyser and gut reader. My reads are generally good but I have a hard time convincing town that X is scum[Hint-that person is actually scum](Ask Maria).

4. Probably the one below me.

5. 7/10

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Grendel, you mind answering your own questions?

Also I think LUV is scum and everyone should be voting there.

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Naked voting is Pro scum. ^

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Naked voting is Pro scum. ^

Why would an RVS vote accompanied by "baaa..." or "hello" be more defensible than a naked vote?

It isn't, unfortunately I only have one vote.

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2.) Never been mislynched. Come close several times, but never.

Seriously?

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We've too many players who fall into your "unacceptable RVS vote" category for them all to be scum. How'd you come to the conclusion that this one in particular is scum?

Also, what do you think of Implosion sheeping you with what amounts to a naked vote?

gut
Why, do you have a problem with my push?

I don't care about Implosion as long as he helps me lynch scum.

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Cool, you wanna answer my question?

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Looks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

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How is it negative? Doesn't it make you immune to nightkills?

No: Ascetic

So, do you believe eagersnake?
What is your current read on him?

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Actually I wouldn't mind if everyone answers this ^

I personally think Eager could have waited a bit and tried ti develop some reads before outing that he is ascetic. More info to be gained from reactions after that.

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Shadowstep, sorry. My mistake.

What is your opinion on Grendel, since it sounds like you know him better?

I've only played with PP, eager and Maria before. So I'm not familiar with Grendel.
From my exp, scum are more awkward during RVS, and RQS is more or less NAI.
I'm currently leaning null town on him.

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So, do you believe eagersnake?

Have no reason not to at this point. How about you?

What is your current read on him?

Null. Yours?

This is a very safe stance
How can you believe him and not town read him even if slightly ?

Like mafia ascetic is very strong modifier for mafia, unless you believe that town would have those many PRs to counter that.
Hence you null read him. But I doubt you would have thought that much.

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He does stuff after he's prompted to do it.
My read hasn't changed on him.

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@Dier, I'm waiting for those walls man.

@mod, can we have a replacement for Slandaar if he is town and a modkill if he is mafia? K thanks

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No change at all?

His wall is mostly commentary.

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Good this should be an easy game. I have a couple of town reads too.
Need to hear more from Slandaar/Maria/Diet to sort them out.

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There's a scum who is intent on breaching the town block /note

Elaborate.

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@Boring, since you are around, what is you read on Eager atm, regarding his claim and stuff?

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@Boring, since you are around, what is you read on Eager atm, regarding his claim and stuff?

Maria, same question.

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Gamma I really think your Zoronos vote is terrible. What is your case against him?
I think there are better places to put your vote, like PP.

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@Zoro, let's wagon Penguin.
There seems to be more potential in this.

VOTE: PP

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Gamma is acting exactly like he did in our last game. I tunnelled him for it because he's easy to mislynch. I'm also doubting my scum read on Zoronos. He's just barrelled on without a single adjustment to his behavior. It's not something I'd expect from someone I'm scum-reading for being fake. They're each either cleverer at playing scum than I'm willing to entertain at the moment, or they're not scum.

UNVOTE:

Join me on Penguin please.

He nicely ignored my question.

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Yeah implosion is town.

So:

Won't read LUV = scum > Will read LUV later = leantown > Still hasn't read/posted about, but post stuff about PP = town.

Dude...seriously.

I'm actually done with LUV for now.

VOTE: Gamma

The fact that so many people townread me and yet he doesn't makes him Town.

This is a fallacy, scum will try to get people who are town read by the majority --> lynched
Especially PP's reply to your comment is terrible. He scum reads you and is okay with you town reading him. He doesn't accuse you or buddying.

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So, do you believe eagersnake?

Have no reason not to at this point. How about you?

What is your current read on him?

Null. Yours?

This is a very safe stance
How can you believe him and not town read him even if slightly ?

Like mafia ascetic is very strong modifier for mafia, unless you believe that town would have those many PRs to counter that.
Hence you null read him. But I doubt you would have thought that much.

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VOTE: Pp

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Flail scum flail

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Naked voting is Pro scum. ^

VOTE: Pp

Dude...

Why would it be directed to you ? Are you scum?

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374, quote shouldn't be there, was directed at Maria

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That's L-1.

No it wasn't.

Shadow was already on PP - check the vote count on the top of the page.

Whyyyyyyy, just when I was getting more town reads.

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374, quote shouldn't be there, was directed at Maria

^^

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I didn't fake hammer, eager did.

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Like nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.

@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.

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I would call Maria prob town but she is so good at faking town reactions I'm not gonna town read her for this.

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N30 has been obv town since the start of this.

The fact gamma isn't obv town when I've obv town read him before is worrying

the LUV townreads make me laugh.

I'm gonna look more into a few players that don't need names but with the amount of people I am slowly going like "you can be town" these players are....

If penguin is scum, LUV is town.
I do agree on that town reading LUV is kinda dumb.

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@Eager what did you learn from that hammer?
What are you current reads?
Even a readlist with one line explanations would be fine.

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Like nn30 is ob town after that. Unless he is a very good scum player. I'll have to check his games to make sure.

@nn I was already voting PP and I had given reasons to vote him.

@Shadow_Step - You're not getting out of this by town reading me. So many people have done that already that it's about the safest thing in the world to do.

I would like responses to 366 & 395.

I've already answered that?
I was already voting PP because I didn't like his stance on the eager claim. He said he believed it and said he read him as null. Which was very safe. I'll get into the details of this later.

I got a town read off of you after that hammer because I think as scum you would attack me for hammering someone prematurely amongst other things .

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@eager stop ignoring my questions.

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Are they important questions to the current gamestate? (i.e. on-topic)

Yep

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Hmm, still time.

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Calling me a VI? Okay that is just bullshit.
Esp since you have no idea with am I talking about.

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At the right time.

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I agree that Gamma's read progression is weird.

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Wouldn't want to be on a wagon with PP though.

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Because only scum find no-one suspicious

Seriously, vote.

okay

VOTE: eager

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Okay I've waited long enough for everyone to catch up and provide content so they'd be easier to sort.

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This game just got easy .

Kidding lol

Hello eager, do you have any early reads?

Anyone else can also answer this.

Eager is probably a goon and would be doing most of the kills and hence might have the biggest chance of getting caught so he claimed to have ascetic.

I'm town ascetic.
First thing I did after reading Eager's claim was confirm with the mod that he sent me the right role PM.

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These are my reads

Town
(nn30, Zoronos)
(Grendel, boring)
(DF, implosion)
(Maria, LUV)
(PP, GE)
(Eager)
Scum

Haven't read prisms latest posts so I'll sort him later.

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Implosion is the only one who thought Eager was scummy with his claim which is very important and must be noted. That caused my earlier town read on him.
But it could be just that he is his buddy and inside knowledge and all that.

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Hard claiming town ascetic

Is that enough maria?
You very well know that I don't bs with claims.

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This game just got easy .

Kidding lol

Hello eager, do you have any early reads?

Anyone else can also answer this.

Eager is probably a goon and would be doing most of the kills and hence might have the biggest chance of getting caught so he claimed to have ascetic.

I'm town ascetic.
First thing I did after reading Eager's claim was confirm with the mod that he sent me the right role PM.

That's a bold claim there.

This means that

1) Eager Snake intentionally chose an obscure role.
2) The mod also chose this obscure role to give to you.

I find that scenario extremely unlikely.

He is gambiting scum. It is as simple as that.

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Lol look at how eager is treating me as town. He is 100% scum.
2 town ascetics is so bastard don't get me started on it. Nobody would approve such a setup.

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Lol. Why are you waiting until now to bring up that you're Ascetic?

Why aren't you considering the possibility of 2 Town having Ascetic?

We don't win by lynching just you. We need to find who your buddies are.
I wasn't doing to have a day where all we do is lynch you and have no info. Nice try though.

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Hello eager, do you have any early reads?

The first time you do something worthwhile in the game - you question Eager. Consistent with a legit CC.

But then you do nothing with that information. If I knew, from page one or whenever Eager was scum, I'd use him as town-dar. If Eager is scum, I'd assume that any early game wagon he was on was on a townie. Right now, PP is on your scum list (just above Eager).

You even tried to scum hunt penguin.

This means that in addition to the low chance that:

1) Snake chose an obscure modifier
2) The mod also gave you an obscure modifier

You also believe

3) Eager intentionally bussed his partner (penguin), participated in a wagon that could have lolhammered him, pretended to lolhammer him, and then kept his vote there the rest of the game

You're living in a fantasy land.

VOTE: Shadow_Step

Here's some circumstantial evidence that I feel is weaker than what I just presented, but could be relevant.

1. Mafia, cause I love the wifom. But I probably play better as town.

Your RQS answer (what's your favorite alignment) could be seen as you telling us you're the kind of player who would CC as scum. You're fine putting the game on a coin flip.

Scum have day chat hence all the fast confirmations huh.

The only type of game where scum would gamble on a CC day one is one where they have day chat. The reaction would have to be coordinated. Maybe you had an idea and your scum buddies decided to run with it. You acknowledge that scum chat exists right here.

The fake hammer was purely for town cred by Eager. He knew I already was on the PP wagon so my vote didn't count. I was individually scum reading PP for reasons stated. I also wanted to see at what stage if any does Eager jump on the PP wagon.

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I've been hinting at it all game. Nn is an idiotic townie who can only see what's at the surface

This is standard play when you have a guilty on someone. You try to get reads out of them so that you can easily find out who is most likely their buddy.
On the phone right now so maria can you link to 649?
I had a guilty on maria on night 1. Day 2 I didn't start the day screaming Maria scum maria scum. I pushed her for reads.

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He's fucking parked on boring and has done with his vote, where the fuck is he scum hunting his buddy?

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I've been hinting at it all game. Nn is an idiotic townie who can only see what's at the surface

This is standard play when you have a guilty on someone. You try to get reads out of them so that you can easily find out who is most likely their buddy.
On the phone right now so maria can you link to 649?
I had a guilty on maria on night 1. Day 2 I didn't start the day screaming Maria scum maria scum. I pushed her for reads.

That's just it.

You pushed Eager for one read, which he gave you basically nothing on, and then you gave up.

Just iso me and see how many times I've asked eager for reads.
I even bloody softed it, 'this game just got easy" when I read Eager's claim.

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I've been hinting at it all game. Nn is an idiotic townie who can only see what's at the surface

This is standard play when you have a guilty on someone. You try to get reads out of them so that you can easily find out who is most likely their buddy.
On the phone right now so maria can you link to 649?
I had a guilty on maria on night 1. Day 2 I didn't start the day screaming Maria scum maria scum. I pushed her for reads.

I'm idiot town who has been tunneling the person who is one slot above snake on your scum list. Uh huh.

Did you even read my read list.
I have you as top town

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Only reason he has me as scum is because we have the same modifier lol

It is the same thing, works the same way at night. It is way too bastard to be in a normal game.

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Both are town can we lynch boring yet

maybe implo or fire also?

Nooooo wtf, boring is a terrible lynch. Look at eager v boring interactions. Boring is most likely town.

Now can you vote Eager?
Two town ascetics are impossible.
Even two ascetic role modifiers are impossible.

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Nn just answer me this simple question.
Why the hell am I making the lynch between eager and me only, as scum.

I'll wait for the answer.

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Brilliant answer. /s

I don't dig my own grave as scum.

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I already said you probably wouldn't... why would I say that as scum, rather than just challenge you?

Cause you will be fucked after my flip
You need to keep me alive for you to be kept alive.

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I didn't do that because they had day chat. If I had made it so obvious. He would have advised his buddies to play in a certain way.

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Maria just check any amount of mini normals you want and see if town have a double of any role. Unless they have odd/even modifier.
A double role is insanely bastard, because town will think that atleast one is scum, lynch one, they will flip town, then they will lynch the other who will also flip town.
Never mind ascetic which is very high neg utility.

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For shadow:

Open 646 he did the same thing

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=67549

I read him starting day 2 of that game - after he got the cop claim on MariaR - he straight tunneled her. Like, "if you ISO me it's pretty obvious this was the cop in hindsight."

Since pointing out that Snake had the same role as him, he's listed snake as his top scum, and then fought with me a bunch. He made 0 effort to move the conversation over to Snake (his top scum).

I didn't do that because they had day chat. If I had made it so obvious. He would have advised his buddies to play in a certain way.

I didn't do that because they had day chat. If I had made it so obvious. He would have advised his buddies to play in a certain way.

You're giving far too much credit to them sniffing you out.

nn I've been hinting at it since eager claimed. If you don't believe me because you are so daft. I can't help it.

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I got townreads. I'm almost 100% sure that boring is town because of your interactions.

And that these shouldn't be bothered at night by PRs[zoronos, nn, grendel, boring]
Actually I'd even go as far as saying that DF is town. But that is a meta read so meh

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Maria if you are town you are setting yourself to be lynched after eager flip.
You'll be an easy mislynch for scum. Stop it

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OK well I'm town so what does that mean to you

No you're not. I'll stop playing mini normals if you are.

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I'm not lynching anyone but eager today.
If there are two ascetics. This game is bastard.

So I'd rather believe eager is scum than this game is bastard.

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I'm only stubborn when I'm 100% of scum.
Not otherwise.

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Maria I think also is coming away from this a lot townier than before.
Unvote
VOTE: boring

Wtf is this shit????
Boring is town

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Look at how eager has been town reading people for little to no reason whatsoever.

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Snake IS scum, he didn't claim ascetic, he claimed having ascetic modifier because that doesn't give him protection from being watched doing the kill etc.

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I have way, way too many scumreads right now: Implosion, boring, LUV, MariaR, Eager, and nn30. Of the bunch, I'd probably say Maria and boring are the ones least likely to be correct.

nn30's last 10 pages have been a trainwreck. He scumread Implosion, said:

I'm still wary of implosion. Since I'm not getting any traction with him at the moment, I'll drop it and see if I have anything to contribute to the other wagons occurring right now.

but dropped the ball entirely with the followup. I scumread Implosion, explained why, and called for more votes on him-one would imagine nn30 at least taking an interest in one of his top suspects. Instead nn30 didn't even read my post explaining my reads or who I wanted, even when prodded to do so. He never had an interest in who I wanted instead of Gamma/Penguin to begin with, and even less so after the top one was Implosion. Latching onto Gamma and now Shadow and launching all kinds of shit to see what sticks is not a town approach to the game whatsoever. His #690 is noticeably about volume in casework over quality and he admits it. Does anyone here seriously think that Shadow wants to get into a 1v1 Day 1 as scum in a game where town has minimum 2 mislynches? Finally

I'm the most obv town player here.

is a trademark scum post.

Moving on, I think either Eager is mafia or they're both town. Eager is playing this exactly how he should as scum, because there's really no way for him to come out of this alive unless he convinces everyone they're both town.I believe he's ascetic-I don't buy so much that he's a town one. Implosion being one of the ones pushing that eager isn't mafia for it really doesn't ease my mind.

In the meantime, Implosion, would you like to respond to my #591 and #599?

Right now, my vote on Implosion stays, I'd be willing to switch to nn30 if people would stop assuming the guy was town for no reason.

Finally someone posting something sensible!!

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Snake IS scum, he didn't claim ascetic, he claimed having ascetic modifier because that doesn't give him protection from being watched doing the kill etc.

He claimed an ascetic modifier rather than ascetic because he doesn't want scum to know that he isn't a power role... or because he's an ascetic power role and wants to claim honestly.

His play makes complete sense if he's town.

?????
Doesn't want scum to know he is a PR? What kind of town lies wtf
Ascetic PR is useless. If they want him to be unable to be protected by doc they would give him the machp modifier. What is the point of an ascetic PR and a town ascetic?

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No matter what anyone says we are only lynching eager today. I don't see two town ascetics at all.

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The point isn't the game size, it's that it happens in normals. He's claiming that it's bastard; it's very simply not bastard to have a setup like that in a normal with this site's current meta.

In fact it's almost a point in favor of them both being town that podoboq, the mod, was one of the macho townies in that game; it seems likely that he saw that component of the setup design, liked it, and reinterpreted it for whatever setup we have here to get two town ascetics.

But the fact that the examples I can think of off the top of my head happen to be larges isn't important; what's important is that they're games that were judged normal on mafiascum.

Show me a game with 2 town ascetic and I *might* reconsider.
Macho is not a neg utility like ascetic so this doesn't apply.

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And I mean a mini normal game.

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Show me a game with 2 town ascetic and I *might* reconsider.
Macho is not a neg utility like ascetic so this doesn't apply.

Three things.

One, please take a step back for a moment. The fact that you're saying you *might* reconsider if I show you very direct proof that you are wrong means you are being way too goddamn stubborn right now.
Two, there's a first time for everything. I'm not going to look through a thousand mini normals to find a game that has precisely two ascetics; it quite possibly hasn't happened, I have no idea if it has. That, again, does not make it bastard.
Three, ...what? Macho is straight-up a negative utility role. It's probably the single closest modifier to ascetic.

And @zoronos, site meta is very important when shadow's primary line of thought is "X would be bastard on this site, and this is a normal game, therefore X cannot be happening in this game." The first premise is flawed because he doesn't understand site meta.

one thing, I'd rather lynch Eager and be wrong than be wrong and not lynch ob scum.

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Yeah, just checked 20 games in the archive and not a single double role for town, forget such negative utility.

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Three, ...what? Macho is straight-up a negative utility role. It's probably the single closest modifier to ascetic.

No, it is used to stop, follow the cop. Nobody would claim Macho cause that person would most likely be a cop.
Whereas ascetics have to claim day 1.

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Pp why do you.not already have rope if I'm scum I would followed the crowd screaming for your death earlier lol

Seriously, I'm town, get over it

Most ridiculous defense ever.

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He's spent the whole game scum reading Eager. Why is the person Eager has parked his vote on on SS's scum list?

What the fuck are you talking about??

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Eager almost got PP killed.

No he didn't, it was a fake hammer.
The VC was in the page top itself I think.
Scum have day chat, he could have organised it.

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It was not even a fake hammer, it was a fake l-1, jesus.

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Also I hope you are aware of a term called "bussing"

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Bussing with nothing to gain is overrated. Especially on day one.

You say it is overrated but you are the one who thinks they cannot be buddies because of that, when my whole iso makes sense with what I'm saying. You'd rather believe that I am scum because PP is in my scum list.

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GE is avoiding the thread, probably is his buddy.

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V/LA you fuck

So you are reading and posting in other games and your defense is VLA, yeah fuck off with that.

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1) Please, explain your reads in the context of people's interactions with Eager. I've been harping PP but I also disagree with a lot of this list in that context as well. I want your scum explanations as well as your town explanations. If this play of yours is legit, you've done very little with it so far (beyond pushing Eager).

He hasn't taken much stance over any wagon and thrown cheap town reads. I've tried to push him for reads without giving much away but he hasn't had those many interactions with people so as to get a definite read on them except boring.

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2) Why did you choose to claim now?

Couple of things, I was going to claim day 1 anyway because it is a neg utility.
I wanted to give us enough time to discuss it before deadline. No way I was going to keep it two days from deadline etc.

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no

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3) How do the interactions between Snake / Boring indicate that Boring is town?

I will get into this later.

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VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

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VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

nn you are seriously thick.
This is day 1. I tried several times for reads from eager. He either kept giving in related responses or avoiding it all together and he was getting away with all of it cause lol day 1. What the hell did you expect me to do ask his read on every player till he does, keep shouting at him? You are being extremely unreasonable.

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OMG nn you are biggest dumbfuck ever.
You want me claim ascetic on day 6?
Or, " I don't have enough info yet, so let's on scum eager live another day and lynch someone else." That's what you expect me to do? Are you that fucking dense?

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We'll see about that after we lynch eager.

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That was in response to Prism ^

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I think it's obvious why Eager has given up and is not pushing anyone(he believes he is town so he should be pushing his scum reads regardless of the wagon on him). It is because he doesn't want to give us insight into who might/might not be his buddies.

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VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

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I have no idea how that comes across as buddying.

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I'm thinking boring and Shadow are scumbuddies.
VOTE: Shadow_step

Scum buddy confirmed.

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Nothing new has happened and sudde ly GE realised he should look back and reconsider which is BS. LUV jumped on my wagon so he jumped on it too to protect his buddy Eager for one more day.
Tomorrow they'll argue he is also town after my flip.

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OMG nn you are biggest dumbfuck ever.
You want me claim ascetic on day 6?
Or, " I don't have enough info yet, so let's on scum eager live another day and lynch someone else." That's what you expect me to do? Are you that fucking dense?

I absolutely expect you to do that.

Sacrificing a townie so that you can identify more scum is absolutely good play.

No its not

Lynching ob scum is always better than taking a shot in the dark

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GE/Eager scum team. Calling it right now. Not sure who Tue 3rd wheel is.

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Can you fuck off? Thanks
I've already said I'd rather Lynch you and be wrong than not lynch you and find out you were scum. End of story

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And last line is BS. I haven't based all my reads on you being scum.
Nice try though.

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VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

Jesus Christ, stop playing you're fucking terrible. Gambiting mafia lmao

[Shadow_step]

You've literally spent the entirety of this game looking for "my buddies" which don't exist, forming your reads based on my interactions with other players while looking at me through rose tinted glasses. I.e. forming reads based solely on the false assumption that I'm scum

You've barely made any noticeable interactions. Only my boring town read is based on you being scum.

#epic_fail scum

[Shadow_step]

OMG nn you are biggest dumbfuck ever.
You want me claim ascetic on day 6?
Or, " I don't have enough info yet, so let's on scum eager live another day and lynch someone else." That's what you expect me to do? Are you that fucking dense?

I absolutely expect you to do that.

Sacrificing a townie so that you can identify more scum is absolutely good play.

No its not

Lynching ob scum is always better than taking a shot in the dark

I'm not saying take a shot in the dark over Eager.

I'm saying you should have let Eager live for a while so that you have some shots in the dark ready for after we kill Eager.

We only have seven days out of which some people keep prod dodging for couple of days. I wanted enough time.

[Shadow_step]

GE is still scum, boring will be null.

[Shadow_step]

No way.
Lynching scum is always better and interactions with eager doesn't lock anyone as scum. Its a good way to find out but its open to interpretation. There is no way I'm not lynching ob scum when I have a usless fucking role as CC. If I was cop or something I'd wait yeah, not with this garbage ascetic.

[Shadow_step]

Okay, and when I flip town, how do you intend to survive tomorrows lynch?

We'll see. If I get lynched so be it.

[Shadow_step]

This is like the most open and shut case ever and people are creating a counter wagon on boring. Like this is the heights of hoplessness.

[Shadow_step]

I don't care.
You cannot scare me even the slightest stop trying.
Town will have one more ML if we both are town ascetics and town will be loaded with a lot of PRs if that is the case so I'm not worried at all.

[Shadow_step]

We have GE scum after Eager scum don't worry.
And I certainly didn't contradixt myself.
I had tried over the past 7 days to not much avail. What was going to change in the next 7? Probably nothing. I didn't see the need to hold this back further.

[Shadow_step]

If I'm a mafia ascetic why the hell am I ccing town eager? There are much more convenient fks to claim incase someone gets a no result on me. Hider, commuter being a few examples.

[Shadow_step]

STOP LYNCHING IN THESE CLAIMS BOTH ARE TOWN AND LOOK OUTSIDE IT (I'm catching up so if you are great if not PLEASE)

Look at any mini normal and see if you find a role given to two people.

[Shadow_step]

This boring wagon is ridiculous as hell when we have confscum eager.

[Shadow_step]

That was a special case because of what you said. Every action was night two.

[Shadow_step]

No, DF and Grendel will hopefully vote Eager then prism and zoro will need to hammer.

[Shadow_step]

Maybe this is a special case?

Why is boring scum? Instead of she us dangerous as scum. Everyone seems to be wanting to lynch her out of fear. Pussies

[Shadow_step]

Why are they his scum buddies?

[Shadow_step]

GE's reason is BS and so is Eager's. Difference in perception of something doesn't mean boring is scum.

[Shadow_step]

No, DF and Grendel will hopefully vote Eager then prism and zoro will need to hammer.

If Eager is scum, Dier and Grendel are likely partners.

How so?

The fact Eager didn't really interact with either of them. I will admit this perception is colored by my read on Dier.

Lololololololol

[Shadow_step]

Didn't interact = scum buddies hahhhahahahahhahahahaha

[Shadow_step]

Shadow why am I not snakes buddy when I'm the one hardcore defending him?

Let me finish laughing first

Because I can see you doing this as either alignment.

[Shadow_step]

Maria the only lynch that is acceptable today is eager. There is no other way to resolve this.

[Shadow_step]

GE's reason is BS and so is Eager's. Difference in perception of something doesn't mean boring is scum.

This defense is BS.

?? You seriously make me wanna bang my head on the wall.
Have you seen why GE is voting boring? Because she perceived my play as aggressive, he doesn't see it as aggressive. So boring must be scum, how does that even make sense?

[Shadow_step]

The only time I hard defended a partner is when I was begged to do it in open 646

I'm saying you are capable.
I don't know your meta, we only played one game where you were scum.

[Shadow_step]

Its not opportunistic. Eager has been cced. He is conf scum. Why is boring's vote opportunistic and not PP?

[Shadow_step]

The only time I hard defended a partner is when I was begged to do it in open 646

I'm saying you are capable.
I don't know your meta, we only played one game where you were scum.

Okay now this is true.

Can you please vote Eager now?
*makes puppy face*

Prism you shouldn't be okay with the boring wagon because of your scum reads and you should be voting eager.

[Shadow_step]

Its not opportunistic. Eager has been cced. He is conf scum. Why is boring's vote opportunistic and not PP?

1) Eager was on her all day
2) Naked vote following a major case

That isn't what I asked.
Why isn't PP's vote also opportunistic?

[Shadow_step]

The only time I hard defended a partner is when I was begged to do it in open 646

I'm saying you are capable.
I don't know your meta, we only played one game where you were scum.

Okay now this is true.

Can you please vote Eager now?
*makes puppy face*

Prism you shouldn't be okay with the boring wagon because of your scum reads and you should be voting eager.

Pls not the puppy face
I don't see why eager would claim right at day start as scum
his logic seems to add up at least to me

Honestly I'm at the point where if boring doesn't flip scum I'm gonna take another look at snake I really think you're just wrong here.

Him gambiting makes more sense than two ascetics.
Let's just imagine I was a VT and he was mafia fking ascetic.
Look at the rewards, he gets townread till day 2 at least and won't be bothered at night.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

Jesus Christ, stop playing you're fucking terrible. Gambiting mafia lmao

You're the one that's terrible my friend. The only case you have on Eager is that you cannot fathom that both you and him were given the same role. You either refuse or won't take into consideration a town motive for lying. If Eager had not claimed, your read on him would be null. You have no backup plan if he flips town and if he flips scum, it's an excuse to push on anyone who defended him or didn't vote for him.

Its a straight up CC. There is no way town have the same two roles. Never mind having two ascetics which is insanely bastard. That's two slots on which the town PRs are wasting their NA on. You can check previous games.

[Shadow_step]

You don't take that into consideration when you balance a game.

[Shadow_step]

It simply doesn't work that way.
It us up to a player's discretion what he does with a neg role and the mod simply cannot assume that the player will claim it day 1 so it wouldn't make much of a diff and let me put another one in there.

[Shadow_step]

@Prism get back on eager.

[Shadow_step]

DF can you park your vote on Eager for the time being? Thanks

[Shadow_step]

Wtf is eager doing on l-4?

[Shadow_step]

Anyone on eagers wagon who can answer this:

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Could be faking ascetic.

Could be, but less likely than him actually just being ascetic.

Assuming he's fake claiming at the start of day one is a stretch, especially for someone who's only been on the site a few months.

No it's not. Its become very common for neg utility to claim day 1 and then they get a free pass till day 3. Eager is maf who fucked up fking ascetic.

[Shadow_step]

No point asking Eager for a full claim, he will probably claim a strong pro town role to draw a CC, so that his buddies can kill that player. No thanks.

[Shadow_step]

Yay my first time being MLed as town

This is another scum flailing lie, he got mled in the last game we played together.

[Shadow_step]

No point asking Eager for a full claim, he will probably claim a strong pro town role to draw a CC, so that his buddies can kill that player. No thanks.

We should absolutely ask for a full claim; if a PR dies to kill a scum, yay we killed a scum. There's basically no PR I wouldn't trade for a dead scum, especially a D1 dead scum.
I'm not nearly as LOCK SOLID SCUM KILL KILL as you are, and I think you need to appreciate that a lot of other players in this game aren't either. Trying to ram the lynch through as fast as possible is a bad plan.

I'm not trying to ram an eager lynch. The counter wagon on boring is bs and there is no real case on the slot.

[Shadow_step]

Hmm I got my facts wrong. Eggman and eager were both useless I thought eager got lynched for the cult win.

[Shadow_step]

Voting unvote isn't the correct format of unvoting.

[Shadow_step]

I was already on the PP wagon before voting snake and ccing later. As scum I don't have any real reason to do that.

[Shadow_step]

Can you explain why you claimed at the time you did then?

Nn already asked me this question and I answered it. Only if you bothered to read the game.

[Shadow_step]

1. I was going to claim day 1 anyway cause of my role.

2. I wanted to give us enough time to discuss it.

3. Waiting any longer was pointless because there wasn't much progress over the last 7 days, snake was clearly coasting and wasn't going to have any real damning interactions with anyone.

[Shadow_step]

Nobody would have voted him for a coasting case on day 1. Come one

Use Occam's razor.

[Shadow_step]

On*

[Shadow_step]

LUV is unlikely to be scum, I know his play is terrible but that's more likely to come from VI. Scum have day chat.
Best course of action would be to bus eager.
I still think it's PP/GE/Eager.
Eager attacked boring but not PP(might be wrong on this have to cross check) for starughtaway jumping in his wagon after my CC.

[Shadow_step]

nn can you hammer then? I'm dying to see that red flip.

[Shadow_step]

I will get killed tonight, remember what I said about [boring, nn, Grendel, zoro, dier] all being town. Shouldn't be lynched and no need to waste night actions on them.
Eliminate LUV from that because of how he keeps scum reading me, its terrible scum play.
Eager's buddies are among the rest.

[Shadow_step]

@Grendel hammer away, you can catch up at night.

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow - I don't know where you got the idea you'd die tonight?

I'm 100% confident of eager red flip plus in my reads. I will be conf town after this and scum will kill me obviously.

[Shadow_step]

Bla bla bla you might as well self hammer, all this extra time to discuss is not good for your buddies.

[Shadow_step]

Podo is online, go go go

[Shadow_step]

lol, putting your buddies in there ain't gonna work

[Shadow_step]

hammer hammer hammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Shadow_step]

Eager and I*

[Shadow_step]

@LUV hammer, damn it

[Shadow_step]

That's a weird kill.
Definitely made to frame boring.

VOTE: Implosion

This is scum

Also I'm sorry Eager.
Anyway I'm glad we got that out of the way early. Something like that on day 3 would be fucking terrible.

[Shadow_step]

Yes. But I haven't seen anything scummy from her to make me think she is scum. She believed my claim holy hell she must be mafia. No, it doesn't work like that.

What are your thoughts on implosuon?
Do you know why I'm voting him?

[Shadow_step]

I caused the day 1 mislynch?
Only scum should be disappointed after the day 1 lynch. If that had happened today or tomorrow. It would have been horrible for us.
Don't you dare tell me that you would have believed Eager's claim in my position.

[Shadow_step]

That is not defensive. Its frustration. You simply cannot see things clearly.

I'll answer your questions when everyone has posted.

[Shadow_step]

Town doesn't react the way he did to my claim. I think the site meta and all was BS.
It was implied knowledge. He knew both of us were town.

[Shadow_step]

Don't think PP is scum either.

Scum would want to avoid wagoning eager.

[Shadow_step]

Town doesn't react the way he did to my claim. I think the site meta and all was BS.
It was implied knowledge. He knew both of us were town.

Can you elaborate for the lazy among us?

Yes, tomorrow.

[Shadow_step]

So other than Eager, Maria and implosion, who believed there could be 2 town ascetics?

LUV

[Shadow_step]

Anyone suggesting that we shouldn't have Lynched eager is too dumb or scum. Lynching anyone else wasn't the problem. Scum were going to keep both of us alive until we had to pl eager. So lynching eager was absolutely the right play.

[Shadow_step]

LUV

LUV was voting you until the very end and thought you were lying about being ascetic. You probably want to re-read.

That was later.
He initially said, "You(Shadow) are the one who doesn't believe in two town ascetics."
He then changed his stance conveniently.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

Jesus Christ, stop playing you're fucking terrible. Gambiting mafia lmao

You're the one that's terrible my friend. The only case you have on Eager is that you cannot fathom that both you and him were given the same role. You either refuse or won't take into consideration a town motive for lying. If Eager had not claimed, your read on him would be null. You have no backup plan if he flips town and if he flips scum, it's an excuse to push on anyone who defended him or didn't vote for him.

If he thinks I'm scum, I would obviously not consider Eager to be town. Why the hell would I? He then says that Eager could be lying town. Implying he knows eager I town. Lying as town is very risky. Not just in that game. But you can get blacklisted.
LUV treats me as if I am town here.

To be noted

[Shadow_step]

Okay so we are in day 4 lylo, with both Eager and I alive. Who do you lynch ?

[Shadow_step]

Take this with a grain of salt because there's definitely a grain or two in there from my current mood: generally, shadow's reasoning for me being scum feels to me like it amounts to "I wasn't right yesterday, so no townie can POSSIBLY have been right yesterday."

which is, once again, projecting his feelings that eager was necessary to lynch at some point on to the whole game... I honestly would have loved to take both of them to endgame. I mentioned eager as one of my strongest townreads and fought his wagon for as long as it seemed like it would have any chance of actually doing anything for a reason. And it's honestly insulting for shadow to imply that there would be a point where we would "have to pl eager." I just on-principle disagree with that sentiment.

It's just absolutely infuriating to be called scum for having been correct about eagerSnake by the person who caused his lynch, won't admit that they caused his lynch, and is now continuing on to day two without even a tiny shred of humility or any indication that he's re-evaluating his view of the game in light of his by far strongest scumread flipping town. And yet he's still probably town.

Which is just infuriating.

This is not what I was thinking.
Scum believe claims more readily than town because they know that town generally don't have any motivation to lie.
Your reason to believe that we both were town ascetics was some what far fetched.

[Shadow_step]

Wait, gamma is still scum.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Gamma

[Shadow_step]

Zoro are you an alt?
I think gamma is scum because he was believing any vague stupid theories and voting people for shallow reasons without even thinking about it.

[Shadow_step]

Not caught up yet.
Will do it later

[Shadow_step]

Prodded

happy with where my vote is ATM, still not properly caught up. Will do it during the weekend. Just busier IRL

[Shadow_step]

And as I said, me pre-defending myself on ties to Eager clears me.

What the hell does this mean?

[Shadow_step]

@Prism what are your current reads?

[Shadow_step]

UNVOTE:

Why did you investigate implosion ?

[Shadow_step]

Also even if Gamma is telling the truth, implo isn't clear.
Town cop would imply at least one mafia role which is immune to cop. We already have 2 ascetics. Nexus is not normal. GF is blacklisted. Leaves a traitor.

[Shadow_step]

@mod, what result will a cop get on a traitor?

[Shadow_step]

@mod, what result will a cop get on a traitor?

Quoting from the Traitor page on the Wiki: "(In Normal games, a Traitor) gives a 'guilty' result to Cops, an 'innocent' result to Gunsmiths, and a 'Traitor' result to Role Cops."

So possibly a mafia commuter.
No result = mafia

[Shadow_step]

Regardless you need to be watched tonight.
I would suggest you check between[nn, Prism]

I'm still confident in my DF and Grendel town reads.

[Shadow_step]

I've read through both PenguinPower and Lil Uzi Vert again. I don't find the depth of analysis that I find in other players (Prism, Zoronos, Grendel). In general I'd characterize this as not making effort to solve the game, which is suspicious.
I suppose that, if I trusted my reads on Prism, Zoronos, and Grendel, I'd start lynching by POE and drop a hammer on Lil Uzi Vert, but I'm reluctant to do so for two reasons.
First, the wagon on Shadow_step after the claim yesterday does not strike me as the sort of place to find a high density of Mafia players (it would have been far easier to vote for eagerSnake). This means that Lil Uzi Vert (and nn30) should be less suspicious than the other players I'm having difficulty reading (boring, PenguinPower). As a parallel to that, if nn30 is less suspicious, it becomes difficult to see why no suspicious players are voting for boring in the quoted VC.
Second, I don't really trust my reads on Prism, Zoronos, and Grendel. I have reasons to read each as Town but I'm simply finding it too good to be true that I've narrowed the Mafia players down so much.

Official Vote Count 1.26

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

boring (5): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion, Gamma Emerald, nn30
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel
PenguinPower (1): Dierfire
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Prism

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

My vote is for boring. I haven't seen many good reasons to read her as Mafia, but I've seen none to read her as Town and I think that the VC shows, at a minimum, Mafia players avoiding her wagon.

VOTE: boring

This is a very good VCA
Eagersnake, maria are town, consider Implo and GE town.
Boring wagon was all town? Unlikely
NN is prob scum

[Shadow_step]

Intent to hammer LUV

[Shadow_step]

I want to lock LUV into a claim, I think he is also scum.
I don't want the day to end prematurely no.

[Shadow_step]

Brilliant, all the lynch baits got all the good PRs :/

VOTE: Nn

[Shadow_step]

Uhhh wut

[Shadow_step]

Mind=blown

[Shadow_step]

Someone needs to unvote before luv self hammers.

[Shadow_step]

He will hammer cause he is scum.
Probably going bonkers in his at.