Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 1.26

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

boring (5): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion, Gamma Emerald, nn30
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel
PenguinPower (1): Dierfire
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Prism

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

[MariaR]

@Maria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

IT'S 2016 DAM IT WHYYYYYY

[Zoronos]

In the movie Beetlejuice if you said his name three times he'd show up.
They're making commentary that you don't post proactively, but rather reactively when your name comes up. And / or making a joke.

[nn30]

@Maria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

IT'S 2016 DAM IT WHYYYYYY

[Gamma Emerald]

In the movie Beetlejuice if you said his name three times he'd show up.
They're making commentary that you don't post proactively, but rather reactively when your name comes up. And / or making a joke.

It's the fact that right before I submitted the addendum including Maria, she posted.

[PenguinPower]

Depends on eager's flip. But, no, Gamma hasn't done anything to change my mind right now.

So in your mind this is obvscum Eager?
Definitely no chance of two town ascetic?

I'm confident enough to lynch Eager, but I can't say "no chance."

[eagerSnake]

Are you confident enough to Lynch s_s after I flip town?

[PenguinPower]

Are you confident enough to Lynch s_s after I flip town?

Dunno...we'll see what happens after the flip.

[eagerSnake]

Nice dodge but I have you a hypothetical flip already

[PenguinPower]

Great...hypothetically, what happens after?

[eagerSnake]

Someone dies and flips town

[PenguinPower]

Yeah, but how does everyone else hypothetically react?

[eagerSnake]

You're first to act!

[PenguinPower]

I'd probably vote Shadow.

[Zoronos]

Depends on eager's flip. But, no, Gamma hasn't done anything to change my mind right now.

So in your mind this is obvscum Eager?
Definitely no chance of two town ascetic?

I'm confident enough to lynch Eager, but I can't say "no chance."

What makes you confident of that?

[boring]

Also, why do you keep repeating that I'm happy about the conflict? I've been around for very little of this little scum theater.

Where do you get "scum theater?" Who am I scum theatering with?

You're scum. You have at least one buddy (I was thinking MariaR at the time) spearheading/supporting this crazy chainsaw to try to get my lynched instead.

boring has experience on another site

Yes, i have some experience on Mafiauniverse, because the games here are so slow. But my first-ever game was here.

@eager - I'm not sure you understand what buddying means. Most of what you posted was criticism. Also, why do you keep repeating that I'm happy about the conflict? I've been around for very little of this little scum theater.

@town? - eager has been coasting, and the only thing in the way of my gut scumlean was the fact that he had an uncc'd claim. A cc from an obvious town player was more than enough reason to vote him. Either way, how can so many of you accept eager's piss-poor "town" performance without resistance? I mean, eager has bragged twice now about how shitty town is playing by not calling him out for his lazy vote. You're all just taking the insult with pride, it would appear. The only positive thing I can say about this development is my wagon. It decreases the likelihood that eagerSnake, MariaR and implosion are ALL scum. I'll have to try to knock at least one out of the running.

If scum want to chainsaw me up to L-1, that's fine, but don't let them hammer without warning. I'll try to be back again tomorrow to check on things.

p-edit - S_s's play and tone were very aggressive early on.

I find the first bolded so, so hard to believe. You had a scumlean on him and the thing holding you back from that was an uncced ascetic claim. When (1) tons of people have been explaining why it makes sense for him to claim it as a mafia ascetic (so the claim itself isn't a strong reason to townread him). And more importantly (2), being an uncced ascetic isn't a particularly townish thing... like, I can understand this if he were an uncced cop or doctor or tracker or generally an uncced power role, because making a power role claim puts you in the limelight and makes you suspicious if you don't die the next night. But I find it hard to believe that this was the only thing holding you back from scumreading him or more specifically that it would hold you back from scumreading him.

If you bothered to open an ISO, you'd see that I've been pretty clear about my feelings regarding eager's claim. That being, he was an uncc'd town claim, which left unchallenged, left him as a prime night kill target (because of the probably confirmed town status). As I also stated several times, if he lived to tomorrow, I'd re-evaluate. So for Day 1, uncc'd regardless of how untown he seemed, I didn't feel like I had much choice but to accept him as confirmed town.

Second bolded part feels super contrived. Calling an L-2 wagon on herself positive as if to shout "hey, i don't really care if i'm lynched bc i'm not scum" from the rooftops with no regard to how harmful it would be if we lynch her and not eagerSnake in the event that she's town and he's scum (which, to be clear, I do not believe but she does). Giving the positive that you've eliminated one out of 200+ possible scumteams further evidences that she doesn't actually feel like the wagon on her is a good thing, she's just BSing to try to look like town-who-doesn't-care-if-they're-wagoned. If she were town she would be concerned about the wagon on her competing with the wagon on eagerSnake, or if she was genuinely glad about it would have more to say about it than "these three people aren't all scum" which is so likely to be true a priori as to have evidence in favor of it be utterly meaningless (reducing an 0.5% chance to an 0.1% chance is not meaningful, and that would require insanely strong evidence to do). We'll see what she has to say when she gives more analysis on it.

Posting from work because I really needed to get this off my mind while it's fresh. Will have more to say on the es-ss fiasco later. But it's gonna be more of what you've already heard.

I very much care if I'm wagoned. You may have missed it, but I said "the only good thing"... as a rule, when someone says "only", they mean just the one.

Also calling it 'scum theater' implies that there is 2 scum involved, which in this scenario would mean S_S and I are performing scum theater. Basically setting herself up to lynch him tomorrow when I flip

Beautiful example of shitty play. Seriously, can you say "you'll all be sorry when I'm gone" any more ways before you're forced to actually participate?

Shadow_step - Has an aggressive town persona. A hint of grandiosity. I haven't seen this behavior before with scum.
eagerSnake - He's got a most-likely-town claim. If he's still alive tomorrow, he'll probably be bumped way down because he's pretty useless

These were Boring's top two town reads at one point. She flipped on her second top town read as soon as her first CC'ed him on a modifier, without further investigation. I find that questionable.
I am further surprised that not a single person brought up that she was willing to trash her town reads that quickly. But w/e.

Anyway, I want to hear what Boring has to say once she comes back; my gut wants her to be scum (hello conf-bias) but I can't justify just throwing down the hammer without giving her a chance to say her piece.

I question whether you read what you quoted. I said of eagerSnake, "He's got a most-likely-town claim. If he's still alive tomorrow, he'll probably be bumped way down because he's pretty useless". What about that makes it so unbelievable that I'd not flip on him when my top town read cc'd him? I don't get why your gut would want me to be scum except that I was scum-reading you before.

--

I'm frankly baffled by my wagon, or that it's lasted this long. I'd congratulate scum, but I don't think they've earned it. There's a weird social dynamic in this game that I can't seem to wrap my head around. How many more times, for example, is Zoro going to try to probe eager for a reason to have voted me in the first place without actually questioning his alignment?

I think we've had quite enough role claims for Day 1, but suffice it to say that I find it very, very unlikely that we have two ascetics. That is, unless the mod is a sadist. I also think it would be absolutely pointless for there to be a mafia ascetic. That is, unless things are far more complex than they appear from my point of view.

[boring]

I'll be back in a few hours.

[Gamma Emerald]

Boring I'd like your input on what I said about Eager and Maria(now including Implosion!) argued(the duplicate town roles thing).

[Zoronos]

I'm frankly baffled by my wagon, or that it's lasted this long. I'd congratulate scum, but I don't think they've earned it. There's a weird social dynamic in this game that I can't seem to wrap my head around. How many more times, for example, is Zoro going to try to probe eager for a reason to have voted me in the first place without actually questioning his alignment?

Apparently this is unclear, so I will explain.
That is how I question someone's alignment. If I sit and demand scum reads from someone, it's probably because I am skeptical about the slot and want a window into their thinking. It's not because I'm your bestest buddy and want to work with you (well, sometimes it does, but usually not).
People with shitty reasons to vote someone or no reason at all, in my experience are scum. Because scum don't actually have real reasons behind their, they just make shit up or contrive cases and vote town.
So, all those times I was demanding Eager give me a read and some reasoning? That's because I am suspicious of Eager and am trying to align gut and logic about his slot. My questions to Penguin just above here, same deal. (Pssst surprise reveal I'm skeptical of Penguin's certainty on this one)

It is the same reason I posed questions to you. But I respect that you're V/LA so whenever you come back and get a chance, I'd like to have some discussion.

[Grendel]

The sheer absurdity of a day one CC is what boggles me about all this. If I were scum, I would never early claim ascetic in thread. I'd sit on that into end game and never ever mention it. Town can't cop me / roleblock me / track me? Awesome I'm the best scum.
I'd also never try to counter claim a town ascetic, since that's just a bad 1 for 1, which is not a winning play for scum.

Which means either Eager or SS don't play scum along the same axis that I do, or that they're not scum. Or are just crazy people who make bad choices.

Well that gives me some pause. Hm.

While at face value there is little motivation for maf-sthic to claim at day start, it is the lack of motivation to do it that would make it a strong gambit right?

If one of them is scum it has to be eager. Scum!Shadow would be shooting himself in the foot with a cc like this.

My left field conspirsy theorist side wonders about the possibility of them both being scum, and then cc each other to give the survivor Conf!town status. Though a play like that would be better later into the game, with both having some threat of being lynched. Still pretty funny to think about though.

I didn't realize that was what you said it was, Grendel.
Any response to what I said about NPBR?

What about NPBR day five did you want to discuss?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm discussing the fact I argued that PKFP and Marietta could both be town Role Cops.

[Gamma Emerald]

Basically, I think if Eager flips scum Maria deserves a closer look. Not sure if Eager is scum yet though.

[eagerSnake]

I'm not

[Grendel]

Are you confident enough to Lynch s_s after I flip town?

Nope, I really don't think shadow would be scum in this situation. Regardless of your alignment.

I don't like how you keep repeating this question as an attempt to dissuade your wagon btw. You keep making it sound like we have to lynch you both. Whereas, you have been very sure Shadow is town this whole time. If you think shadow is town you'd be advocating against his lynch tomorrow if you were lynched today. Not setting up his lynch tomorrow, or rather complacent and positive that his lynch has to go done.

[Grendel]

I'm discussing the fact I argued that PKFP and Marietta could both be town Role Cops.

Oh yeah that.

I might need to reread the exchange though. Not sure if MariaR would do this as scum. It'd be very risky to say the least.