Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1225  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:42 pm

In post 1222, nn30 wrote:
In post 1221, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1219, MariaR wrote:Anyone on eagers wagon who can answer this:

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Could be faking ascetic.


Could be, but less likely than him actually just being ascetic.

Assuming he's fake claiming at the start of day one is a stretch, especially for someone who's only been on the site a few months.

Thing is, I was always suspicious of Eager's claim. It was the language he used. "Don't waste your night actions on me" sounds like scared scum.
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Post Post #1226  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:43 pm

In post 1195, Prism wrote:
In post 1190, Grendel wrote:If Snake does flip town I will advocate lynching boring tomorrow.
This is a really bad post. I'm not sure if there's many other ways to put it. Why do you not just advocate it now?

Prism wrote:I'm still selling Implosion votes on the cheap if anyone wants to buy, it's a great product, the R&D team really came through, we just need some marketing and consumer awareness to really get the boost we need.


lol Prism.

If you think I should be voting boring, pending scum read based off a pending flip. Why aren't you voting the wagon you are most interested in?

Like your Implosion scum read is all kinds of weird. You think he is scum yet you trust his words on Penguin. You want people to vote Implosion without putting a vote there yourself.

idk if that means anything AI yet, but its definite shows something that isn't a positive here.

Preedit: you guys are fast typers...

boring
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Post Post #1227  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:47 pm

In post 1219, MariaR wrote:Anyone on eagers wagon who can answer this:

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Because it would provide a free pass with town investigators for at least a little while. Long enough to pick off doubters.

p-edit: @Zoro. I gave you what I have to give. I can't say where I was going next with my train of thought on PP because as I said, I was distracted by Grendel. I guess you're just going to have to be dissatisfied. Did you have any other questions that I can help you with, or is that the extent of your questioning?

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Post Post #1228  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:47 pm

UNVOTE:

Sans Shadow, none of my town reads are on the Eager wagon. This can't be a good thing.

I need a day to reevaluate things.

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Post Post #1229  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:47 pm

In post 1225, Gamma Emerald wrote:"Don't waste your night actions on me" sounds like scared scum.


R u serious with this?

An ascetic advising people not to waste their actions is now scared scum.... ok....

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Post Post #1230  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:48 pm

Like wtf kinda twisted argument is that?

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Post Post #1231  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:49 pm

In post 1230, eagerSnake wrote:Like wtf kinda twisted argument is that?

One where scum is afraid of flack coming due to failed actions. Boring stated it pretty well I believe.
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Post Post #1232  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:52 pm

In post 1227, boring wrote: I was distracted by Grendel.


You were in awe of my stunning magnificence weren't you?

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Post Post #1233  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:54 pm

In post 1220, implosion wrote:Not sure what you mean by this; when I said your earlier post didn't merit a response, I mean in the way that it wouldn't merit a response from you if I said "Prism is so scummy, vote: prism". It doesn't merit a response if there are no specific points to respond to.
There were specific points, namely ones remarkably similar to the ones you made on boring-namely not buying certain reads as being legitimate.
In post 1220, implosion wrote:Consistency is a towntell in an extremely specific way and although I'm not going to ISO myself you should see that if you look at how I use it; consistency is a towntell insofar as it indicates that a person has an internally consistent set of reads. Consistency on its own isn't always a tell. Experienced players will be consistent almost always, and many players will have some inconsistencies in what they say as their reads change or they forget about minor things they noticed earlier. The main time I remember citing consistency earlier was in criticizing gamma for being inconsistent about a major read (or at least what seemed like a major read) over the span of <24 hours, which indicated a lack of a consistent internal thought process. Consistency in general is not indicative of town.
Acting like I don't know consistency isn't necessarily a towntell has to be a joke. It really does. Is anybody actually reading this guy? I can scream it from the rooftops all game but nobody in this game is even bothering to read what I'm typing regardless of how short I keep it. His description of how he views consistent internal thought process is exactly how boring's read on Eager was consistent. This isn't even attempting to look at the meat of what I posted.
In post 1220, implosion wrote:Golly, you sure do know a lot about the way that I think about the game of mafia for having met me like two days ago :|
Also there's more of that non-specificity you seem so fond of... you're essentially saying "this is bad" and leaving it at that.
Golly, it sure is hard to notice that implosion tries to appear thoughtful.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Implosion

Seriously, I know nobody is taking this seriously, but actually take the time to look at Implosion's reads throughout the game and ask yourself if they really make any sense. They don't.
I've been specific numerous times, you're blatantly going for lowhanging fruit rather than any of that post's actual substance. The one towards Grendel was selfexplanatory-it's saying he'll vote boring if Eager flips town. The question is if he scumreads boring why doesn't he just push her today?

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Post Post #1234  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:57 pm

In post 1232, Grendel wrote:
In post 1227, boring wrote: I was distracted by Grendel.


You were in awe of my stunning magnificence weren't you?

I'm a sucker for purple.

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Post Post #1235  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:59 pm

Don't forget to do your VC and Wagon analysis, now with colors.

Spoiler: "D1 Wagons assuming shadow_step is town"
wagon1:
Lil Uzi Vert (3): Shadow_step, implosion, PenguinPower

wagon2:
Zoronos (4): DierFire, MariaR, boring, Gamma Emerald

wagon3:
PenguinPower (5): Grendel, Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire, nn30

wagon4:
Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, MariaR

wagon5:
PenguinPower (5): Grendel, Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire, Gamma Emerald

wagon6:
Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, nn30

wagon7:
boring (3): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion

wagon8:
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Gamma Emerald

wagon9:
Shadow_step (3): nn30, Lil Uzi Vert, Gamma Emerald

wagon10:
eagerSnake(4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Prism

wagon11:
eagerSnake (5): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel, Gamma Emerald


Based on this, there are 2 that look most likely to be a scum. [PenguinPower and boring]

Let's take a look if boring is scum...

Spoiler: "D1 Wagons assuming s_s&pp town and boring scum"
wagon1:
Lil Uzi Vert (3): Shadow_step, implosion, PenguinPower

wagon2:
Zoronos (4): DierFire, MariaR, boring, Gamma Emerald

wagon3:
PenguinPower (5): Grendel, Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire, nn30

wagon4:
Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, MariaR

wagon5:
PenguinPower (5): Grendel, Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire, Gamma Emerald

wagon6:
Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, nn30

wagon7:
boring (3): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion

wagon8:
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Gamma Emerald

wagon9:
Shadow_step (3): nn30, Lil Uzi Vert, Gamma Emerald

wagon10:
eagerSnake(4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Prism

wagon11:
eagerSnake (5): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel, Gamma Emerald


Spoiler: "D1 Wagons assuming s_s&boring town and PP scum"
wagon1:
Lil Uzi Vert (3): Shadow_step, implosion, PenguinPower

wagon2:
Zoronos (4): DierFire, MariaR, boring, Gamma Emerald

wagon3:
PenguinPower (5): Grendel, Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire, nn30

wagon4:
Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, MariaR

wagon5:
PenguinPower (5): Grendel, Shadow_step, boring, Dierfire, Gamma Emerald

wagon6:
Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, nn30

wagon7:
boring (3): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion

wagon8:
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Gamma Emerald

wagon9:
Shadow_step (3): nn30, Lil Uzi Vert, Gamma Emerald

wagon10:
eagerSnake(4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Prism

wagon11:
eagerSnake (5): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel, Gamma Emerald


What do you guys think makes more sense?

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Post Post #1236  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:01 pm

In post 1226, Grendel wrote:lol Prism.

If you think I should be voting boring, pending scum read based off a pending flip. Why aren't you voting the wagon you are most interested in?
I explained why in the post you quoted.
In post 1195, Prism wrote:I really wanted to vote Implosion here but it's pretty clear to me that nobody is willing to do it-hit me up if that changes.

In post 1226, Grendel wrote:Like your Implosion scum read is all kinds of weird. You think he is scum yet you trust his words on Penguin. You want people to vote Implosion without putting a vote there yourself.
I already said I thought 2 people spoke on Penguin, not one, in #627. I was voting implosion for a lengthy portion of time until it became apparent nobody was going to vote it and I should pick between boring or Eager, at which point I voted Eager in #1042. As quoted above, I have been pining to switch to implosion but there it is antitown to vote someone you know can't be lynched today. It is throwing away a vote. I already explained my #1195.

This is Exhibit A in what I mean when I say nobody is even bothering to read anything I'm typing.

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Post Post #1237  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:01 pm

@eagerSnake, I appreciate that you're finally making some kind of effort, but I'm missing the point. Can you summarize at all?

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Post Post #1238  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:02 pm

From before the CC:

Boring was doing little / no scum hunting. She joined the Zoronos wagon (3rd there). Aside from questioning his logic once or twice, she loses interest in Zoronos fairly quickly. She joins the Penguin wagon (also 3rd) and aside from her rainbow read list (putting Penguin as her top scum read) she spends the next 15 posts without engaging with Penguin again.

After the CC:

She votes Eager with little to no thought about the CC (literal minutes between SS announcing and her voting Eager). She drops Eager (previously a 2nd to top town read) to her biggest scum read with little to no explanation, thought, consideration... nada. This feels very opportunistic.

Also, this:

In post 1037, boring wrote:@town? - eager has been coasting, and the only thing in the way of my gut scumlean was the fact that he had an uncc'd claim. A cc from an obvious town player was more than enough reason to vote him.


She is specifically referring to the period of time before the Shadow CC that she had a scumlean on him. This directly contradicts her read list from that period of time (where snake was her second to top town read).

In post 1165, boring wrote:...
If you bothered to open an ISO, you'd see that I've been pretty clear about my feelings regarding eager's claim. That being, he was an uncc'd town claim, which left unchallenged, left him as a prime night kill target (because of the probably confirmed town status). As I also stated several times, if he lived to tomorrow, I'd re-evaluate. So for Day 1, uncc'd regardless of how untown he seemed, I didn't feel like I had much choice but to accept him as confirmed town.
...


Further contradiction. He's probably confirmed town without a counter claim - yet in 1037 (when there was still no CC) she has a scumlean on him.

Fishy. Fishy fishy.



I had a slight scum read on Boring before the CC. The most quantifiable thing is that her read list felt hinky to me (like she was posting it instead of actually scum hunting). There was also a gut feeling, which is more difficult to quantify.

Snake also pointed out that he parked his vote on Boring the entire day - and nobody nibbled - meaning 0 scum tried to hop onto the wagon and test the waters (implying that Boring herself is scum, causing the lack of interest in her wagon). I like this logic a lot.

Fin.

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Post Post #1239  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:03 pm

In post 1225, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1222, nn30 wrote:
In post 1221, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1219, MariaR wrote:Anyone on eagers wagon who can answer this:

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Could be faking ascetic.


Could be, but less likely than him actually just being ascetic.

Assuming he's fake claiming at the start of day one is a stretch, especially for someone who's only been on the site a few months.

Thing is, I was always suspicious of Eager's claim. It was the language he used. "Don't waste your night actions on me" sounds like scared scum.


Scared scum? He had no pressure before making that claim. Scum have no reason to be afraid of a night action if there's no suspicion on them.

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Post Post #1240  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:05 pm

Didn't Implosion scumread me?
Why does it look like he is defending me in his consistency argument?
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i would unironically put mafia loyal vigs in games for the record - Acidphoenix

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Post Post #1241  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:05 pm

In post 1239, nn30 wrote:Scared scum? He had no pressure before making that claim. Scum have no reason to be afraid of a night action if there's no suspicion on them.


Right. He's trying to say I was scared of being targeted... before the game even started.

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Post Post #1242  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:06 pm

In post 1238, nn30 wrote:Snake also pointed out that he parked his vote on Boring the entire day - and nobody nibbled - meaning 0 scum tried to hop onto the wagon and test the waters(implying that Boring herself is scum, causing the lack of interest in her wagon). I like this logic a lot.


Bold is mine. Since we're all fans of the complicated and intricate in this game, why could scum not orchestrate that in their day chat?

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Post Post #1243  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:07 pm

I'm also disturbed by the fact that virtually no one has read me for alignment or outed a single read on me in 24 posts.

Grendel's recent one is the closest attempt.

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Post Post #1244  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:10 pm

Don't care about you right now.

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Post Post #1245  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:11 pm

...Apparently I can't have a scumread on someone for their tone because they'll completely ignore the actual point and argue semantics.
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I love the sea! (Himiko told me to say hi and that she’s having a great time at the witch world!)
i would unironically put mafia loyal vigs in games for the record - Acidphoenix

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Post Post #1246  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:12 pm

In post 1242, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 1238, nn30 wrote:Snake also pointed out that he parked his vote on Boring the entire day - and nobody nibbled - meaning 0 scum tried to hop onto the wagon and test the waters(implying that Boring herself is scum, causing the lack of interest in her wagon). I like this logic a lot.


Bold is mine. Since we're all fans of the complicated and intricate in this game, why could scum not orchestrate that in their day chat?


I am not a fan of the complicated and intricate. It's possible but not likely.

Scum would have an easier time just coasting day 1 and adding fire to any incorrect wagons.

Coordinating like this makes more sense in later days when the lynches are harder to achieve.

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Post Post #1247  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:13 pm

In post 1246, nn30 wrote:Scum would have an easier time just coasting day 1 and adding fire to any incorrect wagons.


Fallacy in my (short) experience.

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Post Post #1248  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:17 pm

In post 1247, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 1246, nn30 wrote:Scum would have an easier time just coasting day 1 and adding fire to any incorrect wagons.


Fallacy in my (short) experience.


Explain.

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Post Post #1249  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:17 pm

In post 1240, Gamma Emerald wrote:Didn't Implosion scumread me?
Why does it look like he is defending me in his consistency argument?
He cited it as an example of a scumtell, he wasn't defending you. However, his explanation of what qualifies consistency to be a towntell,
consistency is a towntell insofar as it indicates that a person has an internally consistent set of reads.
is exactly what I described about boring

The bigger thing that should make you vote Implosion happened eons ago:

In post 599, Prism wrote:
In post 562, implosion wrote:It also feels like the reads themselves make a lot of sense from scum; the top several players are all my more confident townreads, so it's consistent with my view of the game that she'd have sprinkled her scumbuddies near the middle.
Presumably, boring's reads make a lot of sense as town considering they're implosion's reads too. Yet, that isn't the implication here.
He explained in #802 that this was a reason for why he was unsure on his read on her, but this isn't true. Go look for yourself at the context he used it:
In post 562, implosion wrote:I'm tempted to throw boring into my scumpile for reasons that I'm not sure have merit. 3rd vote on what I suspect is a wagon on pp-town where i suspect the first two votes are also from town, and her reads list. It feels somewhat forced or like she's posting it for the sake of having posted it. It also feels like the reads themselves make a lot of sense from scum; the top several players are all my more confident townreads, so it's consistent with my view of the game that she'd have sprinkled her scumbuddies near the middle. Although again I don't want to put too much stock in that since it's dependent on reads of other players. Calling PP "dismissive in a way I only see with scum" is just weird. I see that kind of dismissiveness so much with experienced town players who feel like they're dealing with newbies and PP's dismissiveness looks pretty much identical to that to me; the way she qualifies it as "only in scum" sounds like it might not be accurate because of that.
This doesn't look like he was using it as a reason for uncertainty or a point in her favor to me.

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