Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1300  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:26 pm

In post 1297, Dierfire wrote:All right, I've caught up.

I am virtually certain that Shadow_step has the Ascetic modifier, regardless of alignment (he was clearly setting up to counter the claim as soon as eagerSnake made it), and very confident that Shadow_step is Town (Mafia has low incentive to counter the claim). With eagerSnake, I was half expecting him to withdraw the claim; the fact that he hasn't rules out some Town plays (Bulletproof or Miller trying to draw the kill were my first thoughts, I also thought of Wary but I don't know if that's common on this site because I can't find it in the Wiki--certainly it's not Normal). It also weighs against some Mafia plays (I agree with the idea that a Mafia Ascetic role is powerful and probably unlikely to claim early without withdrawing the claim later, so I'd find a Mafia Goon more likely).

A few points since the claim make me suspicious of eagerSnake. First, and most obviously, eagerSnake actively resisted attempts by Zoronos ( and others) and nn30 () to provide content that would help us judge his alignment independently of the Ascetic claim. This seems consistent with a Mafia player in significant danger of being lynched and trying to avoid giving associative information (discussion of possible self-vote in is also consistent with that thought process). The vote on implosion in is also strange given that boring is the larger wagon and was the player eagerSnake was most confidently reading as Mafia (I don't see any change from ). Of course, I think that the reasons to vote for boring didn't hold much water in the first place (next post post after next), which is also suspicious (I'm not buying that eagerSnake was simply too uncertain to make a meaningful case--in that event, he should have been working at improving his reads rather than repetitively insisting that he was Town).

UNVOTE: PenguinPower
VOTE: eagerSnake

I want a full claim from eagerSnake.

I saw someone else ask this and get the "fishing" dodge, so to be clear: I am inclined to lynch eagerSnake unless he has some additional reason that we should leave him alive.

It seems unlikely to me that PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald are both Mafia with eagerSnake, but either one could be.

It was me who was accused of fishing, though I just asked if Snake was a PR on top of being ascetic.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1301  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:29 pm

In post 1299, Dierfire wrote:Last, I'm discussing boring.

MariaR seems to be working with PoE (). I've nothing useful to say about that.

I see that nn30 has multiple references to things that feel "off" (, , ) but not much elaboration on those.

The idea that eagerSnake parking a vote on boring should have attracted more votes from Mafia players if boring were Town () does not seem compelling to me. For one thing, there were votes for boring: a vote from Prism in (due to an error in the VC the two votes for boring are listed separately), one from MariaR in , and one from implosion in .

I don't find it suspicious that she turned on eagerSnake after Shadow_step claimed. I think that her ISO clearly shows that she was reading eagerSnake as Town for no reason other than the claim (whether this was warranted is a separate discussion, but not one that I feel gives insight into her alignment given her reaction in ). I'm not seeing any evidence that boring is "happy" with the conflict between Shadow_step and eagerSnake (), other than the fact that she was ready to vote for eagerSnake.

The idea that the read on Shadow_step given by boring in is the one that I most agree with--that last line in particular does seem awkward. I do think that Shadow_step seemed aggressive before that, though (and I find it suspicious that Gamma Emerald in seems convinced by this, since Gamma Emerald in thought that Shadow_step was in a tunnel).

This isn't a Town read, but it's not a Mafia read and I think that eagerSnake is a better vote than boring.

LOL
Tunnely =/= powertown
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1302  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:31 pm

@Dier:
What do think of my partial PP clear?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Lil Uzi Vert
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1303  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:32 pm

Shadow still reads the same to me but I'm willing to move my vote with enough convincing. I still don't buy the case on boring, well I don't buy it enough to believe she's the correct lynch for today.

I'm going to take a look at Prism's ISO since I have no read on him at all.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1304  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:32 pm

@Gamma Emerald
What is the partial clear?

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1305  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:33 pm

@Dier:
In post 1260, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1259, PenguinPower wrote:If I didn't think you were scum...yeah. Still want eager to flip.

I figured this would be the case, but did it anyway to see your response.
No real read change, but I've decided that you cannot be scum if Dier is town. What scum would reject an offer like that?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1306  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:35 pm

I don't know why PenguinPower as Mafia would be so supremely excited to vote for me just because you had.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1307  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:37 pm

This was the VC at the time.

In post 1265, podoboq wrote:
Official Vote Count 1.29
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

eagerSnake (3): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower
boring (3): MariaR, implosion, nn30
implosion (2): eagerSnake, Prism
PenguinPower (1): Dierfire
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert
Dierfire (1): Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Grendel


V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1308  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:37 pm

In post 1306, Dierfire wrote:I don't know why PenguinPower as Mafia would be so supremely excited to vote for me just because you had.

They had expressed a scumread on you. The fact they chose not to follow me likely means that if you are town, he is town as well.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1309  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:40 pm

I could think of lots of reasons for PenguinPower not to see a need to move his vote there.

What if he were Mafia with eagerSnake, afraid to look like he's trying to counter the wagon?
What if he were Mafia with boring, trying to keep the eagerSnake wagon viable to avoid lynching boring?
What if every single wagon were on Town, and he just didn't see a need to move a vote at all?
(What if he were Mafia with you and the whole thing is an act?)

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1310  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:41 pm

In post 1309, Dierfire wrote:I could think of lots of reasons for PenguinPower not to see a need to move his vote there.

What if he were Mafia with eagerSnake, afraid to look like he's trying to counter the wagon?
What if he were Mafia with boring, trying to keep the eagerSnake wagon viable to avoid lynching boring?
What if every single wagon were on Town, and he just didn't see a need to move a vote at all?
(What if he were Mafia with you and the whole thing is an act?)

What if you have confbias!!!??
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1311  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:42 pm

If it helps, I'm more suspicious of you than of PenguinPower, so there's a real chance that he's Town; I just don't see why his refusal to vote for me is inconsistent with Mafia alignment.

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1312  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:43 pm

How does that help me at all?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1313  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:46 pm

Ha ha, that's an excellent question!
I guess that I just didn't want you to think that I was disagreeing with everything that you said on principle.

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1314  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:48 pm

I have a question: what would you do if one of us was nightkilled?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1315  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:51 pm

I'd apologize to you after the game for being wrong, of course.
I'd also do what I usually do after a player flips: read the game over for new insights (the length of this game will make that difficult, but I'd at least give it a try).

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1316  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Well what if one of us flips green after a lynch?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1317  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:53 pm

That would be a similar situation, except that the "new insights" category would probably be larger because I could assess the players on and off the wagon for their reasoning (whereas the NK is often a source of WIFOM).

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1318  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:55 pm

@Dier: most of my scumread on you is based on the fact you caem up with the outlandish idea me and PP could be scum together.
Could you explain what exactly made you think that? Because I'm starting to townread you now.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Shadow_step
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: May 12, 2016
Location: 221B, Baker Street
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1319  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:58 pm

In post 1222, nn30 wrote:
In post 1221, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1219, MariaR wrote:Anyone on eagers wagon who can answer this:

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Why does scum eager claim day 1 when he'd be the most powerful maf role?

Could be faking ascetic.


Could be, but less likely than him actually just being ascetic.

Assuming he's fake claiming at the start of day one is a stretch, especially for someone who's only been on the site a few months.


No it's not. Its become very common for neg utility to claim day 1 and then they get a free pass till day 3. Eager is maf who fucked up fking ascetic.
Show

Shadow_step
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: May 12, 2016
Location: 221B, Baker Street
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1320  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:02 am

No point asking Eager for a full claim, he will probably claim a strong pro town role to draw a CC, so that his buddies can kill that player. No thanks.
Show

Shadow_step
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: May 12, 2016
Location: 221B, Baker Street
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1321  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:05 am

In post 1197, eagerSnake wrote:Yay my first time being MLed as town


This is another scum flailing lie, he got mled in the last game we played together.
Show

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1322  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:11 am

@Gamma Emerald
In post 351, Dierfire wrote:I definitely don't like the interaction between Gamma Emerald and PenguinPower finishing in . PenguinPower makes a great show of pointing out a seeming contradiction in the way that Gamma Emerald is treating Lil Uzi Vert and implosion, but then votes for Lil Uzi Vert (later clarifying in that this was a result of Lil Uzi Vert not answering RQS and not contributing, which to me both seem like weaker reasons than what PenguinPower gave against Gamma Emerald). Of course, this makes the eventual move to Gamma Emerald in seem forced or rushed (particularly given the hesitance in and ).

--SNIP--

@Gamma Emerald
In you thought that Zoronos was suspicious for being defensive. What do you think of PenguinPower in ?


I thought that the pattern from PenguinPower early in the game (cast suspicion on you but vote for Lil Uzi Vert in ) looked like a possible partner interaction (create distance without a vote). I thought that the switch in was not consistent with the progression of the game at the time (I thought that he had better reasons to vote for you sooner, meaning that he had some ulterior motive to vote you then, such as creating distance).
I also thought that PenguinPower was similarly "defensive" in compared to Zoronos in , so I was suspicious that you voted Zoronos without comment about PenguinPower.

In post 517, Dierfire wrote:I'm not seeing that comment as especially unlikely to come from a Mafia partner. It casts aspersions on the wagon without actually defending PenguinPower directly.


This was a reference to . I thought that you were trying to oppose the wagon on PenguinPower without saying so directly.

I can't find the quote right now, but I thought that your flip on PenguinPower was suspicious too--it was a drastic change from your earlier confidence and for reasons that had existed at the time of your earlier confidence.

Gamma Emerald
Undiscovered
 
User avatar
Joined: August 09, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1323  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:13 am

I can see how you might say that, however, it is my personal policy to suspect whomever performed the suspicious action more than the person the action was performed at.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

Dierfire
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 17, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #1324  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:14 am

@Shadow_step
In post 1320, Shadow_step wrote:No point asking Eager for a full claim, he will probably claim a strong pro town role to draw a CC, so that his buddies can kill that player. No thanks.


I'd like to see the claim before I evaluate it.

PreviousNext
[ + ]

Return to Completed Mini Normal Games