Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

podoboq
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Post Post #1350  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:35 am

Official Vote Count 1.32
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

boring (4): MariaR, implosion, nn30, Gamma Emerald
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire
implosion (1): Prism
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (3): Zoronos, Grendel, eagerSnake


V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)
Last edited by podoboq on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"

Dierfire
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Post Post #1351  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:50 am

@Zoronos
In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?


Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).

For Gamma Emerald and PenguinPower, I think that their direct reads on each other looked like interactions between Mafia partners. I don't recall many disagreements between them about other players (implosion early in the game, in real time when Gamma Emerald voted for me, and indirectly after Gamma Emerald was considering moving back to eagerSnake); none looked especially difficult to coordinate or unlikely to occur to Mafia partners.

Zoronos
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Post Post #1352  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:12 am

In post 1351, Dierfire wrote:@Zoronos
In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?


Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).


So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?

Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1353  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:15 am

In post 1352, Zoronos wrote:
In post 1351, Dierfire wrote:@Zoronos
In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?


Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).


So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?

Your words say you agree, but your tone says you don't. Which is it?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

nn30
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Post Post #1354  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:38 am

In post 1353, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1352, Zoronos wrote:
In post 1351, Dierfire wrote:@Zoronos
In post 1334, Zoronos wrote:So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?


Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).


So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?

Your words say you agree, but your tone says you don't. Which is it?


That was not my initial impression of his tone.

To me, this reads like he's asking for clarification before he reveals whether or not he agrees.

Zoronos
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Post Post #1355  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:49 pm

In post 1353, Gamma Emerald wrote:Your words say you agree, but your tone says you don't. Which is it?


I don't think my words say anything about whether I agree or not. I'm asking to make sure I understand his stance. And furthermore am pushing for details that show whether or not his thought process is actually consistent with events or is manufactured to simply appear so.

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Post Post #1356  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:15 pm

When eager flips town I am power tunneling Dierfire into the ground
I bet Maria is scum this game~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~ Charloux

Wanna know more about Maria? Click here!

Lil Uzi Vert
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Post Post #1357  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:54 pm

In post 1356, MariaR wrote:When eager flips town I am power tunneling Dierfire into the ground


Why?

eagerSnake
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Post Post #1358  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:57 pm

I absolutely hate Zoronos' indecisiveness.

Zoronos
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Post Post #1359  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:10 pm

In post 1358, eagerSnake wrote:I absolutely hate Zoronos' indecisiveness.


You probably shouldn't. I was really close to posting intent to hammer you the other night out of raw frustration with your continual 'WOE IS ME I AM TOWN IT WOULD BE SO BAD TO LYNCH ME' and 'I guess you have to lynch SS after you lynch me because ~reasons~' posts.

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Post Post #1360  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:13 pm

In post 1357, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 1356, MariaR wrote:When eager flips town I am power tunneling Dierfire into the ground


Why?


If Eager flips town my Dier suspicion will increase; not quite as far as 'tunnel into the ground' but it will certainly go up a tad. It was high initially, but some of his posting last night seemed pretty reasonable and caused me to lower my likelihood-of-scum evaluation on him. I'm trying to piece him together a bit better before I move forward, and think really hard about his actual assessment of Gamma's behavior.

Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1361  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:20 pm

Yo
Anyone got any further input for toDay?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

PenguinPower
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Post Post #1362  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:22 pm

Flip eager.

boring
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Post Post #1363  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:26 pm

In post 1272, nn30 wrote:
In post 1037, boring wrote:@town? - eager has been coasting, and the only thing in the way of my gut scumlean was the fact that he had an uncc'd claim. A cc from an obvious town player was more than enough reason to vote him.


She is specifically referring to the period of time before the Shadow CC that she had a scumlean on him. This directly contradicts her read list from that period of time (where snake was her second to top town read).

In post 1165, boring wrote:...
If you bothered to open an ISO, you'd see that I've been pretty clear about my feelings regarding eager's claim. That being, he was an uncc'd town claim, which left unchallenged, left him as a prime night kill target (because of the probably confirmed town status). As I also stated several times, if he lived to tomorrow, I'd re-evaluate. So for Day 1, uncc'd regardless of how untown he seemed, I didn't feel like I had much choice but to accept him as confirmed town.
...


Further contradiction. He's probably confirmed town without a counter claim - yet in 1037 (when there was still no CC) she has a scumlean on him.

Fishy. Fishy fishy.

So you highlighted my explanation and called it a contradiction? Are you talking about my conflict with his read, which I was open about? That's fishy? That I can see a slot as mechanically town but still believe they're behaving questionably? If that's the case, then your reasoning is atrocious. Or you're intentionally taking something transparent and are pretending it was something subversive.

What you're calling out as "fishy" is a big part of my scum-hunting process. I throw out ideas and voice the concerns I have with players so that I can interact with others in the game to solve the issue. It's brainstorming, and anyone remotely Ne-heavy (for lack of a better summary) does this as naturally as breathing. The fact that no one cared to take part in that conversation, is just another element of my frustration with town.

In post 1238, nn30 wrote:Snake also pointed out that he parked his vote on Boring the entire day - and nobody nibbled - meaning 0 scum tried to hop onto the wagon and test the waters (implying that Boring herself is scum, causing the lack of interest in her wagon). I like this logic a lot.

Fin.

You spent half a page making random arguments without even realizing that eager had his vote on me. He actually had to "explain" it to you. At the time, I figured you were just absent-minded. Now, I'm not so sure. It certainly set you up to accept his "reasoning", which he didn't even sound super enthused by:

In post 776, eagerSnake wrote:Mainly wanted to see if anyone would react to my obviously parked vote or not
.. no one really did

In post 820, eagerSnake wrote:Wish I could give you more than the fact I've been parked on boring all game and scum haven't even taken a nibble at it, so that also makes it more likely boring is scum


There were a lot of RVS's that no one nibbled on, which is what his vote was when it was cast. The fact that no one even bothered to question it, or supposedly even notice it (in your case) as the day progressed, tells me that there's some gurd-awful town and ("town") play going on.

In post 1238, nn30 wrote:I had a slight scum read on Boring before the CC. The most quantifiable thing is that her read list felt hinky to me (like she was posting it instead of actually scum hunting). There was also a gut feeling, which is more difficult to quantify.


I'm okay with gut feelings when you admit they're gut feelings. But don't take a gut feeling, turn it into a wonky-ass tunnel, and pretend you're scum-hunting. If you are town, which, unfortunately remains relatively likely, it looks to me like you're picking out what you want to believe is scummy, and ignoring the rest.

In post 1272, nn30 wrote:
In post 1266, boring wrote:So, you haven't been paying attention like, at all? Hopefully when this trip is over, I'll have time to go through and show you point-for-point where you've clearly glossed, ignored, and misrepped. I realize this isn't the first time you've gotten totally confused in this game, but geez.

It's like you're pretending to be Zoro, except Zoro actually brought up some valid concerns (unfortunately for me).

Anyway, my request stands. Please wait for me to come back and post if y'all get to the point of intent to hammer on me. Or just lynch eagerSnake. Either one works.


Well that's one way to deflect.


I know, dude. It's almost like I'm on, like, V/LA or whatever. Such deduction very wow.

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Post Post #1364  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:29 pm

So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

boring
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Post Post #1365  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:40 pm

In post 1364, Gamma Emerald wrote:So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.

I've forgotten. Why are you voting me, again?

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Post Post #1366  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:42 pm

Why me tell

Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1367  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:44 pm

In post 1365, boring wrote:
In post 1364, Gamma Emerald wrote:So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.

I've forgotten. Why are you voting me, again?

Because your read on Shadow is faulty and I don't like your turnaround on Eager.
Basically everyone else's reason.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

boring
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Post Post #1368  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:46 pm

In post 1367, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1365, boring wrote:
In post 1364, Gamma Emerald wrote:So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.

I've forgotten. Why are you voting me, again?

Because your read on Shadow is faulty and I don't like your turnaround on Eager.
Basically everyone else's reason.

So, because you disagree with my read on Shadow and you don't think I should readily believe him over eager?

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Post Post #1369  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:51 pm

UNVOTE:
Now that I think about it, I don't agree on that second part.
What the hell is up with me right now.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

eagerSnake
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Post Post #1370  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:55 pm

How can you be in favor for an argument you disbelieve?

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Post Post #1371  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:59 pm

Why do you think I unvoted?
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

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Post Post #1372  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:00 pm

I think he's disagreeing with himself, not boring.

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Post Post #1373  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:02 pm

In post 1372, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I think he's disagreeing with himself, not boring.

Exactly.
Sometimes silence is the loudest thing you can say.

nn30
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Post Post #1374  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:02 pm

In post 1364, Gamma Emerald wrote:So I never really voted for this reason, but I should address it anyways I feel.
Boring has a point about finding someone's play scummy even though they are likely town. There have been point where I've said "dude that's scummy" to people I townread.


This is my second game on Mafiascum. My playstyle/reads/game sense will get better over time. I'm fine with having this pointed out to me.

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