Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[nn30]

@Boring - still not buying it.

If you were conflicted about your read on Eager, why the hell was he your second to top town read?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Boring - still not buying it.

If you were conflicted about your read on Eager, why the hell was he your second to top town read?

Actually, I think that was my concern with her Eager read.
If I were you, I would have had him as like fifth-highest townread.

[MariaR]

@Boring - still not buying it.

If you were conflicted about your read on Eager, why the hell was he your second to top town read?

^^^^

[Gamma Emerald]

"If I were you" being directed at boring ofc

[nn30]

@Boring - still not buying it.

If you were conflicted about your read on Eager, why the hell was he your second to top town read?

^^^^

Finally something I've said gets picked up as reasonable. I'm tryin' my best here!

[Dierfire]

@Zoronos

@Zoronos

So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?

Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).

So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?

Yes, and I'll add that Gamma Emerald jumped on twice and off twice (comes back from V/LA, sees the claim from Shadow_step, votes in 867; removes vote from eagerSnake in 927 and to Shadow_step in 933 after Lil Uzi Vert adds another vote to that wagon; brings eagerSnake to L-1 in 1176; comes off again in 1258).

[nn30]

@Zoronos

@Zoronos

So, for the sake of clarity Dierfire, your scum reads are Eager, Gamma, and Penguin? You are further of the opinion that Gamma and Penguin's set of disagreements around the competing trains was theater / scum distancing and that they could be scum together?
Am I understanding this correctly?

Yes, that's correct.
I'm not married to the idea that all three are Mafia together, but I have independent reasons to read each as Mafia, associative reasons to read PenguinPower and Gamma Emerald as partners, and no associative reasons to doubt either as partners for eagerSnake (in fact, perhaps some associative reasons to read Gamma Emerald as a likely partner for eagerSnake given the hops on and off the eagerSnake wagon).

So, in short, your theory is that Gamma is Eager's scum partner, and who jumped on the lynch train when he thought it was going to complete for the town cred, then jumped off again when he thought he might be able to save his scum buddy?

Yes, and I'll add that Gamma Emerald jumped on twice and off twice (comes back from V/LA, sees the claim from Shadow_step, votes in 867; removes vote from eagerSnake in 927 and to Shadow_step in 933 after Lil Uzi Vert adds another vote to that wagon; brings eagerSnake to L-1 in 1176; comes off again in 1258).

Keep in mind - I've been scumreading Gamma for a lot of this game.

Him jumping in and out of wagons is definitely interesting. If the above explanation is true (that he's bussing for town cred or bailing to see if he can save his scum buddy) his behavior is awfully transparent for scum.

The jumping in and out of wagons suggests cautious/unsure townie to me.

*shrug*

Not sure though.

[boring]

@Boring - still not buying it.

If you were conflicted about your read on Eager, why the hell was he your second to top town read?

Because he was, until the CC, mechanically town. I would have put him as #1, but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Anyway, if your case is reduced to disliking the order in which I arranged my town, null, and scum reads in my pretty, pretty rainbow, then that's your prerogative.

Who's your second highest read? Who will you pursue when/if eager flips red? What about if he flips green? Why'd you switch from SS to me? Do you believe he's town, now? What game set up do you think could possibly support two town ascetics? What do you think about Gamma's mind change? How about eager? Are you really sure he's town? What re you willing to commit to print at this point?

Anyone can feel free to answer any of these questions, by the way.

[nn30]

Moon logic here. This is pure speculation. Please don't take this as super serious - I'm just throwing it out there.

Shadow's CC, to most people's reading, was premeditated.

What if Boring's "scum read list" intentionally had Shadow as her top town read so that she could use it as justification for jumping on Snake?

Scum have day chat - if SS's claim was premeditated, he could have warned his scum buddies to set up bread crumbs they could point back to.

[nn30]

It hasn't been reduced to anything.

You put out reads.

Your later play contradicted those reads.

I'm not interested in changing the subject.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To me it still reads like Shadow made it look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

EBWOP

[PenguinPower]

Oooh...that's an interesting variation on current events. Unlikely, but interesting nonetheless.

p-edit

Even more interesting. Thanks, LUV.

[PenguinPower]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Just going to quote this for posterity.

Still reads like premeditated.

Still reads.

Still.

[nn30]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 1.33

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire
boring (3): MariaR, implosion, nn30
implosion (1): Prism
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (4): Zoronos, Grendel, eagerSnake, Gamma Emerald

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

[Dierfire]

@MariaR

When eager flips town I am power tunneling Dierfire into the ground

Why not start now?

[Gamma Emerald]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

Wasn't it stated by some people that the claim was suspected as a distraction?
PP is getting townier again.

[nn30]

Yeah, it might have been me who speculated that first. Never felt 100% about it (since the PP and Gamma wagons were both at 3 votes at the time).

LUV likes it as an explanation for the SS claim obviously.

[Dierfire]

@Lil Uzi Vert

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

I think that it's clear that Shadow_step was setting up to counter the claim from early in the game. I'm not certain why you find that suspicious. Why would Shadow_step, as Mafia, feel the need to start setting up to dispute the claim so early? Usually it is not difficult to dispose of an Ascetic role (by NK or by lynch).
I also don't think that Shadow_step needed to claim in order to create a distraction. The move that you describe would be one with low reward and high risk.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Lil Uzi Vert

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

I think that it's clear that Shadow_step was setting up to counter the claim from early in the game. I'm not certain why you find that suspicious. Why would Shadow_step, as Mafia, feel the need to start setting up to dispute the claim so early? Usually it is not difficult to dispose of an Ascetic role (by NK or by lynch).
I also don't think that Shadow_step needed to claim in order to create a distraction. The move that you describe would be one with low reward and high risk.

You were scumreading both me and Penguin.
Me and Penguin were the leading wagons at the time.
Coincidence...?

[Dierfire]

I'm not certain what you're asking.

[Gamma Emerald]

People were saying the claim could be a distraction from the main wagons.
Right now I'm thinking Dier and Penguin are both Town.

[Dierfire]

If PenguinPower were Town, and you were Town, and Shadow_step were Mafia, then Shadow_step would have very little need to distract from the competing wagons.
Or are you saying that you're reading Shadow_step as Town because you're reading PenguinPower as Town?