Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[PenguinPower]

Sorry...Dier is talking a lot about my wagon in relation to the claim. Could you clarify as to where my wagon was at when the claim came?

[Gamma Emerald]

If PenguinPower were Town, and you were Town, and Shadow_step were Mafia, then Shadow_step would have very little need to distract from the competing wagons.
Or are you saying that you're reading Shadow_step as Town because you're reading PenguinPower as Town?

But what if he tried to frame us?

[PenguinPower]

But what if he tried to frame us?

Ew...that's icky.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nah I had actually was the first one who stated it was possible distraction.

The reason I don't think this was planned out is because the way he tunneled me early on the game but had no plan on who to target next when I flip, the way he constantly kept mentioning it'll be easy game, and the fact that he didn't really learn anything from Snake claiming early on.

I bring up the latter two because now that I know what he was referring to, if he's town, I don't see how he feels the game got easier for town by counterclaiming. It got a lot more confusing and has ultimately led us nowhere seeing as both wagons are starting to fade a bit now. Problem is we still have to address the counterclaim due to the majority of us feeling it is very unlikely of two players receiving a role like Ascetic in a mini normal. If he's scum though, he successfully turn the majority of Day 1 into a 1v1 showdown and buys his team two nights since he will most likely be lynched Day 2 if Snake flips scum. This doesn't read as too much of a gamble to me depending on who his partners are. It buys the scum team enough time to figure out who to kill and blend in even more.

The second part of the latter is, you state that you were planning this from the beginning but come up empty with little to no information. A counter claim such as this I would think someone would at least compile a lot more data in order to convince the town that you're right.

My point is in short is that he's not thinking about anything he does and is just running with plans without any end goal in sight. This strikes me as a clueless gambling sort of type.

But I realize that I'm probably not going to sell anyone on this today but I'm still not buying any of the leading wagons so who wants to help me look elsewhere?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually, I'm sold.
VOTE: Shadow_Step

[Dierfire]

@PenguinPower

Sorry...Dier is talking a lot about my wagon in relation to the claim. Could you clarify as to where my wagon was at when the claim came?

Shadow_step claimed in 642. This was the VC at the time (I see no changes between the VC and the claim):

Official Vote Count 1.15

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

Gamma Emerald (3): implosion, PenguinPower, nn30
PenguinPower (3): boring, Dierfire, Grendel
boring (1): eagerSnake
DierFire (1): Gamma Emerald
eagerSnake (1): Shadow_step
implosion (1): Prism

Not Voting (3): Zoronos, Lil Uzi Vert, MariaR

V/LA: Gamma Emerald

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

I'm saying to Gamma Emerald that, if you and he were both Town, and Shadow_step were Mafia, there would be many easier things to do than counter the claim by eagerSnake (vote for one of the large Town wagons, vote for one of the small Town wagons, something).

[Gamma Emerald]

But as LUV said, he could have claimed to make it look like one of us was one of his partners.

[PenguinPower]

No. I knew where it was. There was no strong wagon, and no reason for scum to counter claim to try and make a save at that point. That's why I think it was legit, and I don't see how anyone can accurately read anything into it.

[eagerSnake]

That's some high level conspiracy theory...

[PenguinPower]

You're still scum snake.

[eagerSnake]

I'm not

[Dierfire]

@Lil Uzi Vert
I think that you are mistaken to suggest that Shadow_step was "tunneling" you early in the game. I assume that you're referring to things like 125 and 166, and the fact that he left his RVS vote on you. I wouldn't read too much into those things; his lines of questioning suggest that his focus was much more strongly on eagerSnake after the claim (122, 168, 263, 280, 296).

I also think that it is incorrect to suggest that Shadow_step came up with "little to no information" by waiting, or that he had insufficient information to proceed. You may have missed this post:

I got townreads. I'm almost 100% sure that boring is town because of your interactions.

And that these shouldn't be bothered at night by PRs[zoronos, nn, grendel, boring]
Actually I'd even go as far as saying that DF is town. But that is a meta read so meh

[Dierfire]

@Gamma Emerald

But as LUV said, he could have claimed to make it look like one of us was one of his partners.

Why set you up to be lynched later when he had a reasonable shot of lynching you today?

[eagerSnake]

Too bad all those reads are in vain

[Dierfire]

@eagerSnake
If you're not Mafia, then I suggest that you get to work.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma Emerald

But as LUV said, he could have claimed to make it look like one of us was one of his partners.

Why set you up to be lynched later when he had a reasonable shot of lynching you today?

Because there were 2 wagons. Once one flips Town, the other gets implicated and MLed. That 2 town for 1 scum, maybe not even that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Lil Uzi Vert
I think that you are mistaken to suggest that Shadow_step was "tunneling" you early in the game. I assume that you're referring to things like 125 and 166, and the fact that he left his RVS vote on you. I wouldn't read too much into those things; his lines of questioning suggest that his focus was much more strongly on eagerSnake after the claim (122, 168, 263, 280, 296).

I also think that it is incorrect to suggest that Shadow_step came up with "little to no information" by waiting, or that he had insufficient information to proceed. You may have missed this post:

I got townreads. I'm almost 100% sure that boring is town because of your interactions.

And that these shouldn't be bothered at night by PRs[zoronos, nn, grendel, boring]
Actually I'd even go as far as saying that DF is town. But that is a meta read so meh

You're not taking into the account that he had a gut read on me he could not explain, called me out for naked voting, and actually was serious about it even when people tried to point it out to him that it was RVS and it means nothing. He seemed very serious about wanting to lynch me.

I'm not talking about that reads list, I'm talking about the one that followed after he counterclaimed.

[Dierfire]

@Gamma Emerald
I'm not understanding this line at all.
The claim from Shadow_step decreased the sizes of the wagons on you and PenguinPower.
Your theory is that Shadow_step made this claim in order to look as though he were distracting from your wagons and thereby get you lynched (along with him).
I don't think that this makes sense, because Shadow_step had no need to sacrifice himself; he could have simply voted for one of the wagons and tried to push it to completion (potentially with assistance from other Mafia players). This has every probability of giving one lynch without cost. He could then push the other on some later day, leaving alive the Town players who looked likely to cooperate so as to ensure wagon viability. These maneuvers would be more reliable than banking on us drawing weird associations and less risky than putting a claim out there.
It's extraordinarily far-fetched to think that the focus of the claim by Shadow_step was any player other than eagerSnake.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma Emerald
I'm not understanding this line at all.
The claim from Shadow_step decreased the sizes of the wagons on you and PenguinPower.
Your theory is that Shadow_step made this claim in order to look as though he were distracting from your wagons and thereby get you lynched (along with him).
I don't think that this makes sense, because Shadow_step had no need to sacrifice himself; he could have simply voted for one of the wagons and tried to push it to completion (potentially with assistance from other Mafia players). This has every probability of giving one lynch without cost. He could then push the other on some later day, leaving alive the Town players who looked likely to cooperate so as to ensure wagon viability. These maneuvers would be more reliable than banking on us drawing weird associations and less risky than putting a claim out there.
It's extraordinarily far-fetched to think that the focus of the claim by Shadow_step was any player other than eagerSnake.

Wait. Who's pushing the "both Shadow and Eager cannot be dual Town ascetics" again? I believe boring is one of them.

[Dierfire]

@Lil Uzi Vert

You're not taking into the account that he had a gut read on me he could not explain, called me out for naked voting, and actually was serious about it even when people tried to point it out to him that it was RVS and it means nothing. He seemed very serious about wanting to lynch me.

I'm not talking about that reads list, I'm talking about the one that followed after he counterclaimed.

I am taking his statements into account. I am suggesting to you that a "gut read" without explanation and calling you out for a naked vote does not constitute a serious attempt to lynch, particularly at that stage in the game.

Are you referring to the list quoted below? To me it seems consistent with what I quoted before.

These are my reads

Town
(nn30, Zoronos)
(Grendel, boring)
(DF, implosion)
(Maria, LUV)
(PP, GE)
(Eager)
Scum

Haven't read prisms latest posts so I'll sort him later.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yes, that list implied that he got those reads from the interactions those players had with Snake. Yet he couldn't explain any of those reads.

[Dierfire]

@Gamma Emerald
Yes, boring was of the opinion that the game was unlikely to contain two Town Ascetic roles (quote below). What is your interpretation of that?

I think we've had quite enough role claims for Day 1, but suffice it to say that I find it very, very unlikely that we have two ascetics.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma Emerald
Yes, boring was of the opinion that the game was unlikely to contain two Town Ascetic roles (quote below). What is your interpretation of that?

I think we've had quite enough role claims for Day 1, but suffice it to say that I find it very, very unlikely that we have two ascetics.

I interpret that as a planned bus.

[Dierfire]

@Lil Uzi Vert
Shadow_step said that only the read on boring was predicated on the assumption that eagerSnake was Mafia (quote below).

You've literally spent the entirety of this game looking for "my buddies" which don't exist, forming your reads based on my interactions with other players while looking at me through rose tinted glasses. I.e. forming reads based solely on the false assumption that I'm scum

You've barely made any noticeable interactions. Only my boring town read is based on you being scum.

If you want him to explain other reads, you should probably ask him to explain other reads!

@Shadow_step
Would you like to help Lil Uzi Vert out by explaining some of your other reads? Personally I am most interested in your read on Grendel, whom I was reading as Town early but haven't revisited in a bit.

[Dierfire]

@Gamma Emerald

I interpret that as a planned bus.

Well, boring voted for eagerSnake, so am I now to understand that you think eagerSnake is Mafia again?
I'll also want details about why you think that this particular interaction makes them both Mafia.
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I'm trying not to clutter the thread, so that's it for me tonight.