LoL eSports Discussion

[dramonic]

sandbox mode?

[Voidedmafia]

Honestly? The infrastructure isn't even close to there. Streaming is still the primary revenue sources for teams, and streaming directly interferes with scrim schedules.

If League ever drops a sandbox mode then the gap is going to become unbelievable. I am convinced that's the primary reason we haven't seen one, it's not like they're particularly hard to code.

Can you explain to me what exactly sandbox mode is supposed to do to narrow the gap? I'm not really sure what it's supposed to do (or how it even works in League)

Anyways, my picks:

SKT over RNG (Even if RNG plays out of their minds, I still think SKT has the edge over them. I think it'll be 3-1, maybe 3-2.)
Rox over EDG (Even if Rox and EDG looked weak over the course of the groups, I think EDG looked weaker than ROX. May be close, or Rox will just stomp
H2K over ANX (I honestly feel like H2K still has an edge in Bo5s, though I admit they haven't done the best and ANX may have enough experience to bridge that gap. IDK, I just feel like H2K is going to be more seasoned with this and ANX might flounder under the new pressure that breaking out of groups could place on them)
SSG over C9 (I really, really, REALLY want C9 to win this, so hard (though at the same time I'm REALLY glad TSM is actually out given that it'd either be an automatic beatdown by SKT or a terrible NA vs. NA region-kill that I don't want), but SSG just look so good, especially if they're smart and keep CoreJJ in. Guy did mad work both weeks.)

SKT over Rox (History, mainly. I don't think Rox has ever beat SKT in a Bo5 since Rox were a team in 2014, but don't quote me on that. It'd be funny/cool if it happened now, and the result I'm looking for if RNG doesn't upset, but I'm not holding my breath
SSG over h2K (If C9 is going to be bad, this is going to be worse, IMO. I feel like NA as a whole were better suited to beating SSG over EU (and we could've if people would stop giving Crown Viktor; seriously, people). Again, could be wrong, but I doubt it.)

SKT over SSG (It'd be really cool if any 3rd seed upstart manages to beat the more-or-less tourney favorites (whether it's Rox or SKT since they kinda both are in absence of the other), though. SKT just feels more...complete, or something? I'm still rooting for not-SKT, though.)

[SleepyKrew]

what's the point of even pretending to provide analysis if you're just picking the favorites every match
you should've just ended your post after misunderstanding GI

[Voidedmafia]

what's the point of even pretending to provide analysis if you're just picking the favorites every match
you should've just ended your post after misunderstanding GI

Is he saying that League dropping it as in not putting it in altogether is not going to narrow the gap, or not? That's what it sounds like to me, and even if it isn't I still don't get what a sandbox mode would do for League.

Also, what's the point of even pretending to care about what I say when all you care to do is shit on my opinion? I'm telling you why I made the picks I did. Just because I'm picking the favorites means shit-all when there's not really a lot going for the teams they're facing to warrant choosing them. Or would you rather I just go "lolnope Koreans gun lose lol" for the hell of it?

You probly shouldn't have posted at all.

[GreyICE]

Sandbox mode will widen the gap to impossible to cross. And it would be a mode that's basically similar to URF, in that you can set custom cooldown reduction on skills, add an arbitrary amount of gold to inventory, use commands like /spawn baron or /spawn cloud_drake, set the minion health to 20 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever, and generally play with the game settings.

And what that lets you do? Practice. You can't run at a wall from different angles and flash it for 15 minutes. You can't practice every flash on every wall in the game regularly. You can't drill smites, you can't drill teamfights, you have to just play. Imagine setting up a game at 30 minutes where one team was down 6k gold and seeing if a particular composition could come back. Imagine every Korean pro having 3 hours of drilling each day - flash drills, smite drills, laning drills (they already do this), etc. Imagine them just setting up and teamfighting 5, 10, 20 times with 40 minute comps. Imagine them having a baron fight, and another, and another, and another, and another, just to see different approaches.

This will turn teams with poor infrastructure into, well, what we currently see, and teams with good planning and good coaching will just simply always make their flashes, always coordinate their attacks, always land things exactly the way they drilled. Right now League is hobbled by the fact that everyone is drilling in the same asinine way (outside of Korean lane drills) - play game. Play game. Play game. Play game. You can't just try a particular flash 20 different times to see how you can make it work. When sandbox is added then the players on good teams will have simply superior mechanics. That's what held foreigners back for so long in SC2, and it's only in the twilight of StarCraft that a foreigner managed to get the skill to best the Koreans, as the Korean teams fall apart.

[Voidedmafia]

Wow. That would basically force teams to grow the infrastructure to accommodate the required time to practice or everyone else is utterly fucked, possibly even at a regional level.

I mean, I can imagine TSM adapting to this enough so that, say, Echo Fox literally can't keep up (or even a more competitive team like Apex or Immortals) they'd literally rule the roost, and then get shunted when teams from other regions show up with even more training. That's not good at all.

[Voidedmafia]

That's what held foreigners back for so long in SC2, and it's only in the twilight of StarCraft that a foreigner managed to get the skill to best the Koreans, as the Korean teams fall apart.

Also, slightly unrelated since this isn't the SC thread, but who has been a contender for the WCS from foreigners (possibly ignoring Korean-Americans like Polt) as of late?

[PJ.]

@voided, all SK was saying that you're just typing to type. Your "analysis" wasn't really analysis and you said all the favorites were gonna win. It would saved us all the trouble of reading babble if you would have straight said "all the favorites are gonna win, but I don't want them to" or just done the picks straight up without any extra bullshit. In short, save the not-really-analysis for your tumblr.

As for my picks. All favorites in Rd 1. Skt over rox and Korea over not Korea Rd 2. Ssg over skt. Crown kills faker a bunch. The crowd goes wild. The unkillable demon king goes down.

[GreyICE]

Wow. That would basically force teams to grow the infrastructure to accommodate the required time to practice or everyone else is utterly fucked, possibly even at a regional level.

I mean, I can imagine TSM adapting to this enough so that, say, Echo Fox literally can't keep up (or even a more competitive team like Apex or Immortals) they'd literally rule the roost, and then get shunted when teams from other regions show up with even more training. That's not good at all.

Bad? Well, it depends. Right now any league player is "practicing" by playing pickup games. That's like if basketball players practiced by playing pickup ball and other pro teams. Obviously they have shooting drills, passing drills, dozens of ways to improve people's game.

What that means is all league play right now is essentially gifted and practiced amateurs. Good, sure, but it's all amateur because they can't ever perfect each aspect of their team.

So it's bad if you want the narrative of competition. But hell, you can spectate Bronze league and either team can win, anything can happen.

It's good if you want a game to be played at its highest level. Imagine a fighting game without a practice mode. It would be a bad joke. That's league.

[dramonic]

I feel like if you do that you become incredibly predictable?
I dunno.

[GreyICE]

Au contraire, if it's hard to practice compositions in team fights you can only play them how you practiced. If you have turned practice into a science then you can play them many more ways as you unlock new potential, rather than just "do it like we did in scrims." I mean imagine European teams had another late game strategy that wasn't "muddle about at Baron" or NA teams had like more than two strategies?

Knowing the fundamentals unlocks new plays. I mean for example imagine if every player on the team could flash the trickiest wall 100%. That unlocks something new.

[zoraster]

I think sandbox would be neutral to gap closing in terms of interregionality.

[GreyICE]

Really? 'Cause I remember an old anecdote about SC2. Someone was watching a pro Protoss about 30 minutes before his match. The Korean loaded up a custom map and started laying down forcefields, and the NA pro realized it was a custom forcefield drill map - unlimited energy, prebuilt custom choke points. Just wave after wave of perfect forcefields. WOL/HOTS were shit (LOTV is good but too little too late) but watch some of the games from that era, and Korean toss fields are immaculate. Do you think they had a custom map for every skill they wanted to practice? I do. Do I think they made a single one of them, or did their team's coaching staff prepare them? I doubt half of them ever even opened the custom map editor a single time.

[zoraster]

I think that despite having better infrastructure in Korea, the gap in infrastructure is way, way, way lower than it was in previous seasons (or in SC2 for that matter). Many teams, particularly those that regularly qualify for worlds in EU and NA, have team infrastructure that would allow them to figure out ways to take advantage of a sandbox mode.

It's also a disrupting force in the game. No one's had this ability before, someone will figure out how to take advantage of it best. It's possible that the Koreans would figure out how to best utilize it, but I don't think that's a given. And disruption often favors those not in control.

[Voidedmafia]

@voided, all SK was saying that you're just typing to type. Your "analysis" wasn't really analysis and you said all the favorites were gonna win. It would saved us all the trouble of reading babble if you would have straight said "all the favorites are gonna win, but I don't want them to" or just done the picks straight up without any extra bullshit. In short, save the not-really-analysis for your tumblr.

As for my picks. All favorites in Rd 1. Skt over rox and Korea over not Korea Rd 2. Ssg over skt. Crown kills faker a bunch. The crowd goes wild. The unkillable demon king goes down.

I don't have a tumblr. Don't really intend to.

And sure, I didn't give straight "X, Y, and Z things are why this team is better than that team", but I'm not going to lie and say I know enough about the structure of these teams (especially non-NA teams) to do that. And it's not like I said anything explicitly wrong unless I flubbed my info somewhere, but I'm certainly not saying "Favs are gonna win cuz favs" because there are legit reasons why teams like SKT and SSG and Rox are gonna be finalists.

Also, that would be a great ending. I kinda want to see any 3rd seed left (which is basically C9, SSG and ANX) make it to finals and upset SKT.

I think that despite having better infrastructure in Korea, the gap in infrastructure is way, way, way lower than it was in previous seasons (or in SC2 for that matter). Many teams, particularly those that regularly qualify for worlds in EU and NA, have team infrastructure that would allow them to figure out ways to take advantage of a sandbox mode.

It's also a disrupting force in the game. No one's had this ability before, someone will figure out how to take advantage of it best. It's possible that the Koreans would figure out how to best utilize it, but I don't think that's a given. And disruption often favors those not in control.

But while I can imagine that non-Koreans can be the first to jump on using it, are they really going to figure out the best way to use it before Koreans do? They've had at least two decades of work on this kind of thing.

[PJ.]

I'm certainly not saying "Favs are gonna win cuz favs" because there are legit reasons why teams like SKT and SSG and Rox are gonna be finalists.

but it is what you said, you just said it 300 words instead of 5. It's not like you listed a single real reason as to why anyone would. W/e it doesn't matter

[SleepyKrew]

Ssg over skt. Crown kills faker a bunch. The crowd goes wild. The unkillable demon king goes down.

gasp

[PJ.]

I know, I'm a visionary. Maybe SSG plays Viktor-Skarner?

[BROseidon]

But while I can imagine that non-Koreans can be the first to jump on using it, are they really going to figure out the best way to use it before Koreans do? They've had at least two decades of work on this kind of thing.

Except the US has also been good at this for, like, every other fucking sport.

[Cabd]

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/ ... tool-works

SANDBOX MODE: NO LONGER A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION

[Espeonage]

Anyone going to the events?

I am at one of the Semis and the Final.

[GreyICE]

Well then. This changes everything.

Also after the group stage wildness, this tournament is starting to take a familiar flavor. Your tournament run ends when you meet a Korean team.

[Iecerint]

I'm rooting for my heroes tomorrow. ^^

[BROseidon]

h2k is our last hope.

[Iecerint]

h2k is our last hope.

D:D:D:D: