Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually nah looking at PP's ISO he looks pretty town in his reaction to my theory.
VOTE: LUV

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 2.03

Lynching

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lil Uzi Vert (2): boring, Gamma Emerald
PenguinPower (1): Zoronos
boring (1): implosion
Gamma Emerald (1): Shadow_step

Not Voting (6): Dierfire, Lil Uzi Vert, PenguinPower, Grendel, nn30, Prism

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-30 12:31:00)

[Zoronos]

Actually nah looking at PP's ISO he looks pretty town in his reaction to my theory.
VOTE: LUV

How so? - What drives you to conclude that.

[Gamma Emerald]

PP was like "this is interesting" and "ew no" to some of the things I proposed. Could be scum, but feels more town. Makes me think there's a low chance of Shadow and PP being scum together.

[Zoronos]

I.. what? How does Shadow fit into the puzzle?
I feel like you just brought him up out of nowhere.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because if it was planned between PP and Shadow, that reaction would have probably not looked as genuine.

[Zoronos]

Sure... but why Shadowed? Do you think he's scum?
I have been reasonably confident in my town read there...
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and I'm clearly missing a beat somewhere.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure... but why Shadowed? Do you think he's scum?
I have been reasonably confident in my town read there...
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and I'm clearly missing a beat somewhere.

If one flips scum, the other is likely town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Spoiler:

Yeah I honestly don't know what the hell happened the last 5 pages, just seems like poorly calculated move by Shadow regardless if he's telling the truth or not.

Yeah I'm actually in agreement with Shadow here, if you guys can show at least two to three examples of that happening in a mini, that would go a long way into putting this to bed for now. Since from my understanding, both Implosion and Snake are implying that the average player on this site would be to able to play optimally in such a setup.

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

If this is true, what was he distracting from with the CC?

My best guesses are PP and GE - since they both had (small) wagons on them when Shadow CC'd.

But... that wasn't enough pressure to do much.

What are your thoughts? What was scum!Shadow's goal with CCing?

GE and PP. Their wagons were small but there were various players discussing the cases presented against both in great detail and length. There was pressure for both players to explain their actions and things they've said. It was understood that we would be lynching Gamma or Penguin today. Discussion was happening and it was discussion that would lead to finding scum regardless of how either flipped.

I'm not entirely sure what his goal is other than to remove suspicion from one of Gamma and Penguin, maybe potentially even both. Either that or he read Snake as being a potential threat and he's willing to gamble in order to get rid of him.

Shadow still reads the same to me but I'm willing to move my vote with enough convincing.

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

Maybe I've gone too far into the deep end due to the games I've been reading on here. I've seen scum attempt some crazy things and I'm always in the belief that anything is possible. So much that with the experience Snake seems to possess, I think he asked for a no lynch as sort of reaction test to see who would immediately jump on it to reveal who really is impatient and wants to end the day. Of course, he could have possibly been advocating for no a lynch and I can't rule that out in the slightest and just the thought alone doesn't sit well with me.

So intent

As for my popping in and out I'm not really sure what to say. I don't buy the case on boring and I was for Shadow over Snake as all of you know. I wanted to push Maria and Penguin more but we've long moved pass those ideas and/or wagons so I'm sort of left just here on the sidelines until we get some flips.

I didn't even hammer bud!

UNVOTE: Shadow
VOTE: Snake

Since I have time for ISO diving, I thought I'd dredge up these gems.

VOTE: LUV

Now, since we have plenty of time before EOD, I'd "luv" it if you could explain how/why you so drastically flipped script with your intent and hammer. From here, it looks like you magically went from suspecting Shadow (while agreeing that there couldn't be two ascetics) to deciding "yolo! I'm going to hammer the other guy". As far as I can tell, all that happened in between was your trip down the rabbit hole with Gamma.

I don't see how I drastically flipped or hammered like I only live once. I acknowledged in one of the posts you quoted that I probably did go into the deep end with my case on Shadow and that Snake asked/proposed for a no lynch. When I read he asked/proposed for one, doubt started to creep in for me. I'm just not fan of a not lynching on Day 1 for various reasons and the fact that while I thought it was a reaction test, the part of me that thought he was seriously asking and advocating for it kept nagging at me and eventually won out. Also, my case on Shadow was looking like it was never going to be taken seriously, so I decided to pressure my newly found scum read on Snake.

I didn't even hammer right way because again, I was fighting with myself on whether not I believed Snake was town or not once I read he asked for a no lynch. So I declared intent, waited a day, even jokingly hammered, hoping he or someone would convince me not to. Sadly all I got was "Hurry up and hammer already Uzi!" I gave into the pressure and I regret that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Actually nah looking at PP's ISO he looks pretty town in his reaction to my theory.
VOTE: LUV

Could you explain why you're voting for me again? You mentioned you had some sort of plan for today. What is your plan and am I part of it? Do you want me to help you lynch someone?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm voting you because I suspect there is scum on each wagon/scum of each opinion. I think you could be the scum of the Shadow wagon. And the plan is to discuss who could be scum on the boring/Eager/Shadow wagons.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ah. The thing is though there was never a Shadow wagon. I was only one voting him for the majority of the day until you hopped on for like two minutes but I would hardly call that a wagon.

But I guess I can help with your plan. I'm still scum reading Penguin and I'm null scum on Prism. I believe those two were on the Snake wagon.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah I think Prism is solid town. PP is a townread but if you can point out how his reaction to my idea was not genuine I'll definitely join you there.

[Zoronos]

If one flips scum, the other is likely town.

I don't see how they're related.
SS is likely town, regardless of what Penguin flips. What is prompting you to say they're tied together? I guess I'm just not seeing some critical thing in your reasoning.

[Zoronos]

Nah I think Prism is solid town. PP is a townread but if you can point out how his reaction to my idea was not genuine I'll definitely join you there.

Why is PP town?!?
Explain this to me like I'm five, because if you are super sure, then I am maybe missing something.

[Prism]

Hi all, sorry I've been busy, I'll have a big catchup post later with my thoughts on the flip+kill and results of me reading Dier and LUV.

[Prism]

Later meaning tonight

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah I think Prism is solid town. PP is a townread but if you can point out how his reaction to my idea was not genuine I'll definitely join you there.

Why is PP town?!?
Explain this to me like I'm five, because if you are super sure, then I am maybe missing something.

He is likely town because his reaction to my theory was "that's interesting". Instantly believing me would have been a scumtell, trying to shut me up may have done so too.

[Zoronos]

How does that make him town in any way?
He took no position on your theory and he didn't alter his position any discernible way. It's strictly non indicating; he basically ignored you.
Calling something interesting without explaining why or what about it is interesting says nothing.

[Grendel]

A lot of things about boring that i thought were scummy seem kind of petty now looking back. I really didn’t like when boring said that MariaR asking if scum have day chat was MariaR shooting for a derp clear (682). I also didn’t like (636) initially because i thought it was a big jump from mild bemusement, to snarky disgust in regards to Eager’s fear vote. I was also really conflicted feeling when she started acting all paranois about me too. I struggled to see the legitimacy behind those comments.

I think the worse thing boring did was that swiftness to vote Eager. Having Eager as second town read then droping him the moment the cc happened. As others have said that was questionable. What more is that boring’s logic of snake being the uncountered Eager being town read was fualty. By which i mean post 1037, if she has a gut scum lean then she wouldn’t be inclined to town read him for his cliam in the first place. Like Eagar would have been a null for my reads if I shared boring feelings not town.

One thing i thought of is that her quickness to move her vote to Eagar after the cc is really hasty for scum. It been a while since i read “Artic mafia”, but i seem to recall scum!boring being more cautious, actively avoiding stances that would burn her. This near sightedness dosen’t looks to scum to me in retrospect.

Or i could just be really bad at reading boring. Anycase I’m not up to lynching her. Null, to put it into words.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever you're obviously not going to get it.

[Gamma Emerald]

That was @Zoronos.

[Grendel]

I think gamma is scum because he was believing any vague stupid theories and voting people for shallow reasons without even thinking about it.

Gamma does this as town. I can't rule out the possibility that he plays the same as town and as scum. All I have to go on is his town game, and this looks just like his town game.

My first newbie game had mostly experienced players by Day 2, and one thing they effectively drilled into my head is that actions are NAI. Motives are all that matters. That's probably why the more experienced players seem to ignore the traditional "tell" lists and VCA.

There's no scum motivation for Gamma to hop around, apply moon logic, weave between his own path and arguments he likes in thread. Especially not with scum daytalk. Either he'd have been instructed to knock it off, or his buddies would be gearing up to bus him for town cred.

It isn't an indicator that Gamma is town. It is an indicator that Gamma is... well Gamma.

He is like this as both alignments imo

[Grendel]

Luv looks worse in retrospect then I first thought.

I kind of want to vote Implosion too though.

[Zoronos]

Whatever you're obviously not going to get it.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald