Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Maria

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Boring You don't even have a witty one-liner to go with your vote... that's really... boring...

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I like it when people make Beowulf jokes. Do you not like people referencing your name in jokes?

QUESTIONS FOR EVERYBODY

1) What is your preferred alignment?

2) Are you often mislynched? If so, why is that?

3) Can you describe your play style concisely in one sentence?

4) If you were the deciding vote at lylo with the slot above you, and the slot below you, which player would you lynch and why? (Ex: 1 would be deciding between 13, and 2. 2 would be deciding between 1 and 3. 3 would decide between 2 and 4.)

5) How excited are you for this game?

Nah Eager is lame, you're the one I want to see in action!

What am I? Chopped liver?

Sure, I'll play along.

1.) Third party.

2.) No.

3.) No.

4.) No comment.

5.) Very. I feel like I can learn a lot from everyone here.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hi, how is everyone? Wonderful weather we're having.

How may I be of service?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

LUV, they're trying to run you up to L-1 right now, if you could tell me which one of them is scum and which one is mislead town that'd be great.

I don't have any reads right now but I'm a little suspicious of Implosion.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

How may I be of service?

Do something...

Lead the way good sir.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

LUV, they're trying to run you up to L-1 right now, if you could tell me which one of them is scum and which one is mislead town that'd be great.

I don't have any reads right now but I'm a little suspicious of Implosion.

Why?

For the same reason Gamma pointed out and is currently voting him for.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Looks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

Oh just the fact LUV did this last game I played with him.

Playing completely absent annoys me, but something being annoying doesn't make it scum. But it also doesn't make me really want to jump in front of a train and yell "No this is wrong don't lynch it" and I really love doing that, so give me something to work with if this is your sincerely held belief.

Why does it seem like you're implying I'm not paying attention to what's being said or done?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Looks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

Oh just the fact LUV did this last game I played with him.

Playing completely absent annoys me, but something being annoying doesn't make it scum. But it also doesn't make me really want to jump in front of a train and yell "No this is wrong don't lynch it" and I really love doing that, so give me something to work with if this is your sincerely held belief.

Why does it seem like you're implying I'm not paying attention to what's being said or done?

That's not what I said. I said you were absent. And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop; having no opinions or contributions of your own is frustrating.

That's exactly what absent means last time I checked. You seem upset. Are you having a bad day?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

That's exactly what absent means last time I checked. You seem upset. Are you having a bad day?

Yes. I am having a real bad day.

Also that's not what absent means; for all I know you're reading the thread, stroking a beard and saying "Hmmm... yes, insightful" to each post then taking a puff on your old english pipe and making notes in a leather bound journal. But that's not making its way into the thread, and you're getting a lot of votes lined up on you for what is essentially "I don't like this slot's RVS vote and continued absence".
So, while I find absence annoying (because it means I can't get a useful read on your slot) I am not a fan of simply lynching it down. But I can't make a cogent argument that "Hey, this seems like a not great plan" without some reasoning to back it up beyond simply "Lets not lynch lurkers" because that will convince exactly nobody.

I'm sorry to hear that. I will keep you in my prayers.

I assumed I'm being ran up on because of RVS silliness and that it would pass.

If I'm reading correctly, you want me to be a little more open with my thoughts. I can do that, but as I've said earlier, I don't have any reads. Everyone is in my neutral bucket right now. However, I'm working just as hard as I hope you are to get them.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

For me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.

Tell me more about this, because I've ignored his RQS answers. (I've ignored basically everyone's). Why are they scummy?

My last? (maybe two games ago?) game on these boards, about a year ago, I got burned lynching down someone who was aggressively non-contributory. It felt good but they were town, which was less good. So I am a bit skeptical of running that same play back.

Spoiler: RQS Answers

Sure, I'll play along.

1.) Third party.

2.) No.

3.) No.

4.) No comment.

5.) Very. I feel like I can learn a lot from everyone here.

"Sure, I'll play along" and then provides nothing. His only post of the game where he could have said anything, and it's "No; No; No comment" but I'm excited to play!

So...he knows that he's being anti-town with his play, yet he continues to do it. I'm not going to give him a pass based on his past behavior or for this crap:

It goes like this: one minute you're lynching a lurker, the next you're out a doctor.

And, it's offputting to me that GE is defending LUV as strongly as he is.

I don't see how doing what Grendal asked makes me anti-town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Did a reread and the following are my thoughts on posts and actions that caught my interest.

Page 1:

Snake claims a role. The role is Ascetic. Never heard of the role before but after doing a bit of research on it, it doesn't seem often used. If I'm understanding it correctly, I don't see a good reason to not to claim it right away. It's pretty useless for town and does nothing to help catch scum. It heavily favors scum as all tracker and cop actions will fail but also a negative because if you don't claim it right away, people will get suspicious if enough actions fail on you.

Page 3:

Penguin feels RQS is a waste of time and says that RVS is better but doesn't give a reason why. I don't understand why he would mention this and not defend why his preferred method of getting the game going is better. For now, I'm going to make a note of this incase he decides to change his mind on answering Grendal's questions.

Implosion finds Zoro's first post awkward because it looks like scum who can't think of anything to say. What exactly are you suppose to say in RVS? Is there an unwritten code of ethics for RVS? In the same post he claims that Eager's claim pings him really hard but doesn't vote him. Why?

- The part he brings up about Snake now being a free night kill for scum shouldn't be a concern in my opinion because as long Snake maintains his current level activity, we should have information we can use that can help lead us to find and lynch scum if scum do choose to kill him

- I don't agree with his take on Zoro's reaction to the claim. The claim is NAI. I also feel the role a majority of people in general would find interesting.

- Splits his post for whatever reason, and I kinda feel weird now since I agree with part of the first part of the second half of his train of thoughts. Why not just come right out and ask the questions? Who wouldn't we be up for some questions to kick things off at this point in the game?

- Don't agree with the middle part of this post however, we have a claim that is NAI but he calls this claim and the RVS posts a goldmine. I don't see how we have anything substantial. We had up until this point Gamma and Zoro commenting how negative the role is and then a shit ton of more RVS stuff. Dodges voting for Snake at the end of this point by saying he has his reasons as if he knows more than anyone else at this point. Sure bud.

Page 4:

nn's claims not being afraid to die is playing against your win con. I disagree, if you're town playing against your win con is actively choosing to not to scum hunt and if you're scum playing against your win con is not actively always trying to mislead the town. Not being afraid to die seems more of a personality trait. I say this because I'm the same way, at the end of the day this is just a game. If I die, I die. I hate losing as much as the next guy but I can live with myself if I know I tried my best and played to my win con.

Snake says nn is probably town and doesn't explain how or why.

Zoro really seems against RQS. I can understand why but at the same time I think he's making too big of a fuss about it. I don't sense an alternative motive from Grendal.

Page 6:

As Gamma pointed out and what I originally caught my eye when I did my first reread since I just skimmed the first time, Implosion votes me without even having mentioned me at all. I think we are still in RVS at this point right now but after I did this reread, I get the sense that this a serious vote. Would like to know if he has a real reason for voting me is or is just blindly following

Penguin decides to answer Grendal's question after all. Says he doesn't want to feel left out. Why does he care about being left out?

Shadow says he doesn't care about Implosion as he along as Implosion helps him find scum. He seems very confident that Implosion can accomplish this task, I'm starting to wonder here if he knows something we all don't

Page 7:

Snake explains what a gut read is and seems like he wants Shadow to explain his gut read on me. Shadow ignores this, I'm currently wondering why.

Page 8:

Snake gives out another read and says Zoro is probably town. Doesn't say how he came to this conclusion.

Boring decides to vote for Zoro and gives an odd metaphor to explain her thoughts on him. Later explains it and it doesn't click with me. Zoro has had to be forced in a way to talk about his self because he has shown a strong dislike for RQS and has had to explained his reasoning for not participating. It's clear why he gave town points to Grendal, Implosion seems to find other players scummier than who is he voting for but refuses to vote for them. This is a good point to bring up and should be brought up until Implosion stops doing it. If I'm understanding the role correctly, I don't see how claiming the role right away is awful.

Page 9:

More Boring talk in regards to Zoro. She talks as if the role that Snake claim is useful to town, in my opinion, it has no benefits to town so why act as if he can use this role in a way that would give town an advantage? I disagree in not needing a confirmed town Day 1. I think it's helpful and narrows down the pool of suspects and also makes a lot easier to form that town block Snake was talking about.

This is all I got for now but as always, I will take any questions.

UNVOTE:

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not really gonna read Grendel or LUV's thick posts for now. Loosely, townpile right now consists of {shadow, nn, pp, eager, zoronos, grendel}. Why yes, for the observant eye, that does include all three people I called scum on page 3. They all started acting townier. I think Gamma is a great vote right now:
-his switch to Zoronos makes very little sense when he's gotten nothing out of his vote on me, and it seems to contradict his apprehensiveness towards flashwagoning (even if his problem with my vote was that I didn't explain it, that still doesn't jive with either the fact that he implied that we were still in RVS as PP pointed out, or him using the word flashwagoning when describing it which implies that he thinks early wagons are bad).
-the reason I had for weakly townreading him early isn't actually any good (it was 22, which is no reason to townread him if eagerSnake is town).
-he's managed to say a lot without really saying a lot. It took him 30 posts to get to his first "serious vote" on me, almost all of which is non-content and really none of which gives any indication on what he's thinking about anything (he mentions "a few townreads" without naming any). He's clearly engaged in the game. He does a lot of clarifying things (linking the wiki, mentioning that I have half a wall to go). But he gives no content. Just a bunch of stuff which gives the illusion thereof, until he latches on to literally the easiest reason to vote someone. I really find it hard to believe that the first thing he found seriously scum-motivated was seeing me, an experienced player, dropping a vote on someone without giving any reasoning. Would I really do something like that as scum but not as town? I'd hope he'd realize that there's no way I would do something like that as scum unless it's the kind of thing I'd do as town as well.
And I mean, come on:

And it's not that I specifically townread LUV,

LUV is town

If it was a bad reason to vote him based on meta, you would have said such; you did not say that. You called him town. In quite the most explicit way possible. You don't just get to say X, and then go back and say no, when I said X I meant Y.
VOTE: Gamma

How can you have town read on those 3 if you know they're acting?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Good this should be an easy game. I have a couple of town reads too.
Need to hear more from Slandaar/Maria/Diet to sort them out.

You keep implying this game will be easy. I seriously hope you have a backup plan for when I flip town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I mean I told you guys this a while ago

Do you actual have a case on boring or?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I mean I told you guys this a while ago

Do you actual have a case on boring or?

EBWOP: Do you have actually have a case on boring or?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I should probably seriously pay attention to this game now. Falling quite behind.

I am pretty wary of Penguin, especially after how hypocritical he's been about Grendal's RQS. That alone though isn't a strong enough for me to jump on this wagon although I agree with a lot of what Diefire presented.

I don't think that fake hammer was set up honestly, it seems like Shadow honestly forgot and when realizing he did, he took it upon himself to say that he was setting it up. I also didn't think there was nothing to learn about the hammer or analyze it other than Maria's reaction. Which seems NAI to me.

I have a couple of town reads and a few nulls.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

His methodology is bad. Worse now that I know he's trying to form the entire scum team D1. If you're going to lynch me for that, let's quick lynch it and get it over with.

p-edit

Hi LUV.

Hey bud.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I actually have some reads but before we get to that I'd like to just say that there's been a lot of talk about my play style mainly from Gamma and Grendal and I'd just like to say that I wasn't in the best place mentally during that game. I honestly had checked out way before I got ran up. Truth is, I don't know what's wrong with the way I play because I've never gotten mislynched before until I've played on here and even then, and so far, I haven't had my play read as lynch bait except the games I've been with you two.


Town: Diefire, Grendal, nn30, Zoro
Null: boring, Eager, Gamma, Maria, Prism
Scum - Penguin, Shadow


boring - While she does ask questions, she doesn't seem like she is actively trying to solve the game and her votes all seem like a stretch or too convenient. I don't know how to put my feelings about her into the words but I can't shake this vibe from her. I think it's mainly her vote on Zoro, which read more to me as nitpicking about inconsistencies rather than looking for scum.

Diefire - I liked every single one of his observations he's made so far and agree with almost all of them except the likelihood of Gamma and PP being a team. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, I just don't try to look for teams early on in the game and I like to focus on one person at a time once I feel 90% sure they're scum.

Eager - He's been very quiet ever since the claim and all he's been doing is throwing out town reads at awkward times without explaining them. He also seems to really have it out for boring for what I assume to be from things he's heard through the grapevine or their previous games together. For now, I'm not seeing what makes him so widely town read but he also hasn't done anything particularly scummy, just odd.

Gamma - Gamma strikes me as a good dude who's very eager to play mafia and seems to enjoy the game a ton. But, his defense or his use of meta in regards to my play has honestly gotten him into a bind here to the point where I wished he hadn't done it. He doesn't seem to have any bad intentions whenever I read the tone of his posts but I can't argue against the cases presented against him but for now, my gut says he isn't scum.

Grendal - Outside of the RQS, I've liked a lot of the questions he's asks and I think he's trying his hardest to understand the thoughts and motives behind what everyone is saying and doing. His fixation with Gamma is a little weird, but I understand that they're friends and feeling confident that you aren't being doped by a friend can definitely help go a long way into building that town block Snake was talking about.

Implosion - I'm still waiting for him to give his thoughts on me but for now I'm not sure what to think of him because while he's been the only player to have voted for me without mentioning why, I've really liked how he's defended himself and presenting his cases.

Maria - Very hard to read to me but that's mainly because I feel we play similar.

nn30 - Is actively poking and scum hunting. I like this guy a lot

Penguin - As I've stated earlier, I am pretty wary of Penguin, especially after how hypocritical he's been about Grendal's RQS. He harps on contributions but I don't see much from him other than relentless attacking for things that are very NAI such as those RQS and inactivity. Like his posts don't make me feel like I should be breaking my neck for this game.

Prism - Just subbed in. Nothing to go off of.

Shadow - Like Penguin, I don't get the sense that he's really contributing, he's very quick to just jump on things and doesn't really have sound reasoning for jumping on said things. At first I thought he was just a VI, but he keeps saying that this game is easy or it's almost solved, which baffles me and makes me uneasy.

Zoro - Outside of his strong dislike for RQS, I get a strong town vibe from him because he truly seems to believe what he stands for and what he's saying. I truly think he's only being scum read because his play is not seen as someone who has to adjust to the way the site plays now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Calling me a VI? Okay that is just bullshit.
Esp since you have no idea with am I talking about.

Never called you a VI, I thought you was one though. Why so angry?

And you're right, I don't know what you're talking about, but no one else does either. Mind sharing what knowledge you may or may not have to determine how you're finding this game easier then the rest of us?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not Voting (5): Zoronos, Slandaar, Lil Uzi Vert, Grendel, MariaR

You guys should be voting someone... you can't say you find nothing suspicious so far

Why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Zoronos, Slandaar, Lil Uzi Vert, Grendel, MariaR

Who do you think is suspicious and why (2 points)

Take a guess.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not Voting (5): Zoronos, Slandaar, Lil Uzi Vert, Grendel, MariaR

You guys should be voting someone... you can't say you find nothing suspicious so far

Why?

Because only scum find no-one suspicious

Seriously, vote.

I think I'm going to cast a vote after this post. I'm almost caught up.

Zoronos, Slandaar, Lil Uzi Vert, Grendel, MariaR

Who do you think is suspicious and why (2 points)

Take a guess.

Why don't you tell us.

I didn't bother to give reads at the time because I had just gave reads like two pages ago.

VOTE: Penguin

I'm back on Penguin. Not feeling enough conviction for a Gamma lynch, mainly because many reasons I'd normally scum read somebody are not effective for reading him. While things like him using my own case against Penguin bothered me, I've seen him sheep other peoples cases as town with out a shred of original thought. Him struggling to explain his read on me beyond a previous game also bugs me, but Gamma generally seems to struggle with explaining himself, which is mostly likely why he endorses what others say as his own. While Penguin gave me some town vibes with his reactions that's all I saw coming from his slot that hit my town radar.

The way that Dier has been posting has been weirding me out a bit. I know that I'm Ob!town to some people who know me well enough, and that I may have instigated it further by my friendly attitude towards him, but Deir is being very defensive of me. I can't tell which fractional intent this is more likely to come from. If we were strangers I'd say its kinda scummy, but we aren't so...

@LUV Lets chat a bit:
How do you feel about the two leading wagons, as well as the individuals on them?
And if this were EoD which wagon would you join?
In this hypothetical situation where would you look next if the one you picked flipped scum? if they flipped town?

I want you to take more active stances. Your note taking, and your otherwise low key posting is not helping me get a hold on your alignment friend.

I'm not too confident in the Gamma wagon and I hate to say it but it's mainly because of meta, Gamma played exactly like this as town in the game me and him were in and again, I don't read any bad intentions with his posts, just awkwardness. The Penguin wagon is where I definitely feel I should hop on to, for reasons that were brought up, some of which were even restated by me.

I think Implosion and nn30 are town, Penguin is scum.
I think you and Diefire are town, and boring I have as null.

If Gamma flipped scum I would probably reconsider my reads on everyone.
If Gamma flipped town I would look at boring, Diefire and Implosion.

If Penguin flipped scum, I would look at Implosion and Shadow.
If Penguin flipped town, I would probably reconsider my reads on everyone.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well this is interesting, a part of me can't help but feel this is all a big distraction to take the heat off of someone.

It seems impossible for this to occur in a normal game, it just puts town at such a disadvantage. The problem is who to believe. Snake's timing of his claim makes a lot of sense regardless alignment. Shadow's claim only makes sense if he's town but doesn't make sense if he's scum. The timing though of his claim is just odd though, which leads me to believe that one of the two are lying.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah I honestly don't know what the hell happened the last 5 pages, just seems like poorly calculated move by Shadow regardless if he's telling the truth or not.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Maria, we share like the same reads on 3 or 4 people. Are you saying your reads are awful as well?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm not sure how much time we have left but yeah this argument isn't going to go anywhere. Time to rest up and wake up hopefully to everyone else's reactions.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Who do you think Snake should be voting for Zoro?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Who do you think Snake should be voting for Zoro?

I don't know. Basically my reads list got turned on its head by this, and I'm trying to parse out what I think about it. Like I wrote above, I can see some common threads of SS actually doing what he claimed, which means he either planned a fake counterclaim well in advance (I guess ascetic mafia, but why out that on D1, that's a win-at-LYLO gamble play) or he's at least somewhat legit.

So, I'm weighing which of the following two statements is more likely:
1) We have two town Ascetics who are counterclaiming eachother D1, and I should be looking off the wagons to see who is whipping up FUD and / or for people that come down quickly on 'I believe X about Y' and are looking to them flip around on X after Y flips town for the double mislynch.
2) We have a legit scum vs town counterclaim, and I need to figure out which side has the town on it.
Like I said just above here, I can see the logical thread from SS being skeptical about Eager's claim and posting, so investigating Eager's thought processes and opinions is the order of the day.

I figured you were doing the latter but it currently doesn't seem like you're going to get anywhere talking to Snake when he's like this so I think looking elsewhere might be our best bet.

Like it's very obvious that Snake doesn't have a real reason or won't share it with anyone until he's confident he can sell his case.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have way, way too many scumreads right now: Implosion, boring, LUV, MariaR, Eager, and nn30. Of the bunch, I'd probably say Maria and boring are the ones least likely to be correct.

nn30's last 10 pages have been a trainwreck. He scumread Implosion, said:

I'm still wary of implosion. Since I'm not getting any traction with him at the moment, I'll drop it and see if I have anything to contribute to the other wagons occurring right now.

but dropped the ball entirely with the followup. I scumread Implosion, explained why, and called for more votes on him-one would imagine nn30 at least taking an interest in one of his top suspects. Instead nn30 didn't even read my post explaining my reads or who I wanted, even when prodded to do so. He never had an interest in who I wanted instead of Gamma/Penguin to begin with, and even less so after the top one was Implosion. Latching onto Gamma and now Shadow and launching all kinds of shit to see what sticks is not a town approach to the game whatsoever. His #690 is noticeably about volume in casework over quality and he admits it. Does anyone here seriously think that Shadow wants to get into a 1v1 Day 1 as scum in a game where town has minimum 2 mislynches? Finally

I'm the most obv town player here.

is a trademark scum post.

Moving on, I think either Eager is mafia or they're both town. Eager is playing this exactly how he should as scum, because there's really no way for him to come out of this alive unless he convinces everyone they're both town. I believe he's ascetic-I don't buy so much that he's a town one. Implosion being one of the ones pushing that eager isn't mafia for it really doesn't ease my mind.

In the meantime, Implosion, would you like to respond to my #591 and #599?

Right now, my vote on Implosion stays, I'd be willing to switch to nn30 if people would stop assuming the guy was town for no reason.

What do you sr me for.

Why do you seem concerned about being scum read?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Implosion, didn't you state that you mostly have seen this sort of thing happened in large normal games? If so, I don't see how you're implying what you just presented. This is small to a medium sized game. Not really a large one which I assume would be 16+ players.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah I'm actually in agreement with Shadow here, if you guys can show at least two to three examples of that happening in a mini, that would go a long way into putting this to bed for now. Since from my understanding, both Implosion and Snake are implying that the average player on this site would be to able to play optimally in such a setup.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have way, way too many scumreads right now: Implosion, boring, LUV, MariaR, Eager, and nn30. Of the bunch, I'd probably say Maria and boring are the ones least likely to be correct.

nn30's last 10 pages have been a trainwreck. He scumread Implosion, said:

I'm still wary of implosion. Since I'm not getting any traction with him at the moment, I'll drop it and see if I have anything to contribute to the other wagons occurring right now.

but dropped the ball entirely with the followup. I scumread Implosion, explained why, and called for more votes on him-one would imagine nn30 at least taking an interest in one of his top suspects. Instead nn30 didn't even read my post explaining my reads or who I wanted, even when prodded to do so. He never had an interest in who I wanted instead of Gamma/Penguin to begin with, and even less so after the top one was Implosion. Latching onto Gamma and now Shadow and launching all kinds of shit to see what sticks is not a town approach to the game whatsoever. His #690 is noticeably about volume in casework over quality and he admits it. Does anyone here seriously think that Shadow wants to get into a 1v1 Day 1 as scum in a game where town has minimum 2 mislynches? Finally

I'm the most obv town player here.

is a trademark scum post.

Moving on, I think either Eager is mafia or they're both town. Eager is playing this exactly how he should as scum, because there's really no way for him to come out of this alive unless he convinces everyone they're both town. I believe he's ascetic-I don't buy so much that he's a town one. Implosion being one of the ones pushing that eager isn't mafia for it really doesn't ease my mind.

In the meantime, Implosion, would you like to respond to my #591 and #599?

Right now, my vote on Implosion stays, I'd be willing to switch to nn30 if people would stop assuming the guy was town for no reason.

What do you sr me for.

Why do you seem concerned about being scum read?

Why do you care?

I'm trying to figure you out hun.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Is it just me or is Prism not on Shadow's recent reads list? Prism should be on there regardless if he's interacted with Snake or not since he actually has posts that can be analyzed.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Snake also hasn't interacted with Diefire or Grendal.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Actually, Snake has only really interacted with like boring, Shadow, and Zoro.

I'm in agreement with Maria and nn30, that reads list makes no sense.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

If this is true, what was he distracting from with the CC?

My best guesses are PP and GE - since they both had (small) wagons on them when Shadow CC'd.

But... that wasn't enough pressure to do much.

What are your thoughts? What was scum!Shadow's goal with CCing?

GE and PP. Their wagons were small but there were various players discussing the cases presented against both in great detail and length. There was pressure for both players to explain their actions and things they've said. It was understood that we would be lynching Gamma or Penguin today. Discussion was happening and it was discussion that would lead to finding scum regardless of how either flipped.

I'm not entirely sure what his goal is other than to remove suspicion from one of Gamma and Penguin, maybe potentially even both. Either that or he read Snake as being a potential threat and he's willing to gamble in order to get rid of him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

Jesus Christ, stop playing you're fucking terrible. Gambiting mafia lmao

You're the one that's terrible my friend. The only case you have on Eager is that you cannot fathom that both you and him were given the same role. You either refuse or won't take into consideration a town motive for lying. If Eager had not claimed, your read on him would be null. You have no backup plan if he flips town and if he flips scum, it's an excuse to push on anyone who defended him or didn't vote for him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't get the case for boring, she's new to site so it's possible she has never seen scum act like Shadow had acted early on in the game, she stated reasons for why she found Eager's claiming terrible and she called him out for coasting. I can see why she voted for Eager.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not worried, I just believe Snake. The time he claimed and the way he did it makes sense.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Shadow still reads the same to me but I'm willing to move my vote with enough convincing. I still don't buy the case on boring, well I don't buy it enough to believe she's the correct lynch for today.

I'm going to take a look at Prism's ISO since I have no read on him at all.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Dierfire I promised to review it awhile back but yeah, it's been pretty low priority. I'll get to it when I have time if it's still relevant.

I still don't buy the case on boring, well I don't buy it enough to believe she's the correct lynch for today.

@LUV: Can you explain in your own words, ie. minimal "I agree with X" even if it's true, what's wrong with the case on boring?

I already touched on it earlier and while I don't town read her I don't find the cases against her very strong. She's basically being scum read for people viewing the tone of her posts as happy about the conflict between Shadow and a Snake yet there is no evidence to show that she is. People also seem to forget that she wasn't fond of Snake's play this game and probably had a slight town read on him so her voting for him shouldn't be that surprising.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

When eager flips town I am power tunneling Dierfire into the ground

Why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think he's disagreeing with himself, not boring.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To me it still reads like Shadow made it look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

EBWOP

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nah I had actually was the first one who stated it was possible distraction.

The reason I don't think this was planned out is because the way he tunneled me early on the game but had no plan on who to target next when I flip, the way he constantly kept mentioning it'll be easy game, and the fact that he didn't really learn anything from Snake claiming early on.

I bring up the latter two because now that I know what he was referring to, if he's town, I don't see how he feels the game got easier for town by counterclaiming. It got a lot more confusing and has ultimately led us nowhere seeing as both wagons are starting to fade a bit now. Problem is we still have to address the counterclaim due to the majority of us feeling it is very unlikely of two players receiving a role like Ascetic in a mini normal. If he's scum though, he successfully turn the majority of Day 1 into a 1v1 showdown and buys his team two nights since he will most likely be lynched Day 2 if Snake flips scum. This doesn't read as too much of a gamble to me depending on who his partners are. It buys the scum team enough time to figure out who to kill and blend in even more.

The second part of the latter is, you state that you were planning this from the beginning but come up empty with little to no information. A counter claim such as this I would think someone would at least compile a lot more data in order to convince the town that you're right.

My point is in short is that he's not thinking about anything he does and is just running with plans without any end goal in sight. This strikes me as a clueless gambling sort of type.

But I realize that I'm probably not going to sell anyone on this today but I'm still not buying any of the leading wagons so who wants to help me look elsewhere?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Lil Uzi Vert
I think that you are mistaken to suggest that Shadow_step was "tunneling" you early in the game. I assume that you're referring to things like 125 and 166, and the fact that he left his RVS vote on you. I wouldn't read too much into those things; his lines of questioning suggest that his focus was much more strongly on eagerSnake after the claim (122, 168, 263, 280, 296).

I also think that it is incorrect to suggest that Shadow_step came up with "little to no information" by waiting, or that he had insufficient information to proceed. You may have missed this post:

I got townreads. I'm almost 100% sure that boring is town because of your interactions.

And that these shouldn't be bothered at night by PRs[zoronos, nn, grendel, boring]
Actually I'd even go as far as saying that DF is town. But that is a meta read so meh

You're not taking into the account that he had a gut read on me he could not explain, called me out for naked voting, and actually was serious about it even when people tried to point it out to him that it was RVS and it means nothing. He seemed very serious about wanting to lynch me.

I'm not talking about that reads list, I'm talking about the one that followed after he counterclaimed.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yes, that list implied that he got those reads from the interactions those players had with Snake. Yet he couldn't explain any of those reads.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah later he clarified, which is why a few players were disappointed with the information he had gathered. Or disappointed with the fact that if he's town, he should have waited.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can you explain why you claimed at the time you did then?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why don't you want to explain it again?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

1. I was going to claim day 1 anyway cause of my role.

2. I wanted to give us enough time to discuss it.

3. Waiting any longer was pointless because there wasn't much progress over the last 7 days, snake was clearly coasting and wasn't going to have any real damning interactions with anyone.

We still had another week. Plenty of time was left but if you saw Snake coasting, why didn't you call him out on it and try to encourage him to interact with others? Why didn't you build another case against him before dropping this one that you seem to have felt was going to be enough to hammer him and win us the game?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

These last 4 pages are trash

Somewhat yeah.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Maybe I've gone too far into the deep end due to the games I've been reading on here. I've seen scum attempt some crazy things and I'm always in the belief that anything is possible. So much that with the experience Snake seems to possess, I think he asked for a no lynch as sort of reaction test to see who would immediately jump on it to reveal who really is impatient and wants to end the day. Of course, he could have possibly been advocating for no a lynch and I can't rule that out in the slightest and just the thought alone doesn't sit well with me.

So intent

As for my popping in and out I'm not really sure what to say. I don't buy the case on boring and I was for Shadow over Snake as all of you know. I wanted to push Maria and Penguin more but we've long moved pass those ideas and/or wagons so I'm sort of left just here on the sidelines until we get some flips.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Oh yeah, forgot. Snake if you're town you really should have provided a read list.

UNVOTE: eagerSnake

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I didn't even hammer bud!

UNVOTE: Shadow
VOTE: Snake

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Don't have a lot of time today but here's my current scum suspicions / thoughts:
Boring, PenguinPower, Implosion, Dierfire.

It's unlikely that Boring and Penguin are scum together.
LUV might deserve a place on the list but I'm not sure yet.

Obviously this list is bigger than it should be but w/e, I'll get to that when I have more time.

Shadow_step, you probably want to dial back the up-to-11 aggression.

Why Dierfire? To me, he's trying really hard to sort out who he feels is suspicious and none of the cases he presented so far have read like scum trying to push a mislynch.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So other than Eager, Maria and implosion, who believed there could be 2 town ascetics?

LUV

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

Jesus Christ, stop playing you're fucking terrible. Gambiting mafia lmao

You're the one that's terrible my friend. The only case you have on Eager is that you cannot fathom that both you and him were given the same role. You either refuse or won't take into consideration a town motive for lying. If Eager had not claimed, your read on him would be null. You have no backup plan if he flips town and if he flips scum, it's an excuse to push on anyone who defended him or didn't vote for him.

If he thinks I'm scum, I would obviously not consider Eager to be town. Why the hell would I? He then says that Eager could be lying town. Implying he knows eager I town. Lying as town is very risky. Not just in that game. But you can get blacklisted.
LUV treats me as if I am town here.

To be noted

Wait, what? I didn't read you as town there. I was saying you're terrible because the case you had on Eager was terrible. As for considering town possibly lying, I had two reasons for town reading Snake, one was the time and the way he claimed and the other was I thought he was hiding the fact he had an actually useful PR and was intentionally acting the way he was so scum won't have a reason to kill him at night.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Spoiler:

Yeah I honestly don't know what the hell happened the last 5 pages, just seems like poorly calculated move by Shadow regardless if he's telling the truth or not.

Yeah I'm actually in agreement with Shadow here, if you guys can show at least two to three examples of that happening in a mini, that would go a long way into putting this to bed for now. Since from my understanding, both Implosion and Snake are implying that the average player on this site would be to able to play optimally in such a setup.

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

If this is true, what was he distracting from with the CC?

My best guesses are PP and GE - since they both had (small) wagons on them when Shadow CC'd.

But... that wasn't enough pressure to do much.

What are your thoughts? What was scum!Shadow's goal with CCing?

GE and PP. Their wagons were small but there were various players discussing the cases presented against both in great detail and length. There was pressure for both players to explain their actions and things they've said. It was understood that we would be lynching Gamma or Penguin today. Discussion was happening and it was discussion that would lead to finding scum regardless of how either flipped.

I'm not entirely sure what his goal is other than to remove suspicion from one of Gamma and Penguin, maybe potentially even both. Either that or he read Snake as being a potential threat and he's willing to gamble in order to get rid of him.

Shadow still reads the same to me but I'm willing to move my vote with enough convincing.

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

Maybe I've gone too far into the deep end due to the games I've been reading on here. I've seen scum attempt some crazy things and I'm always in the belief that anything is possible. So much that with the experience Snake seems to possess, I think he asked for a no lynch as sort of reaction test to see who would immediately jump on it to reveal who really is impatient and wants to end the day. Of course, he could have possibly been advocating for no a lynch and I can't rule that out in the slightest and just the thought alone doesn't sit well with me.

So intent

As for my popping in and out I'm not really sure what to say. I don't buy the case on boring and I was for Shadow over Snake as all of you know. I wanted to push Maria and Penguin more but we've long moved pass those ideas and/or wagons so I'm sort of left just here on the sidelines until we get some flips.

I didn't even hammer bud!

UNVOTE: Shadow
VOTE: Snake

Since I have time for ISO diving, I thought I'd dredge up these gems.

VOTE: LUV

Now, since we have plenty of time before EOD, I'd "luv" it if you could explain how/why you so drastically flipped script with your intent and hammer. From here, it looks like you magically went from suspecting Shadow (while agreeing that there couldn't be two ascetics) to deciding "yolo! I'm going to hammer the other guy". As far as I can tell, all that happened in between was your trip down the rabbit hole with Gamma.

I don't see how I drastically flipped or hammered like I only live once. I acknowledged in one of the posts you quoted that I probably did go into the deep end with my case on Shadow and that Snake asked/proposed for a no lynch. When I read he asked/proposed for one, doubt started to creep in for me. I'm just not fan of a not lynching on Day 1 for various reasons and the fact that while I thought it was a reaction test, the part of me that thought he was seriously asking and advocating for it kept nagging at me and eventually won out. Also, my case on Shadow was looking like it was never going to be taken seriously, so I decided to pressure my newly found scum read on Snake.

I didn't even hammer right way because again, I was fighting with myself on whether not I believed Snake was town or not once I read he asked for a no lynch. So I declared intent, waited a day, even jokingly hammered, hoping he or someone would convince me not to. Sadly all I got was "Hurry up and hammer already Uzi!" I gave into the pressure and I regret that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Actually nah looking at PP's ISO he looks pretty town in his reaction to my theory.
VOTE: LUV

Could you explain why you're voting for me again? You mentioned you had some sort of plan for today. What is your plan and am I part of it? Do you want me to help you lynch someone?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ah. The thing is though there was never a Shadow wagon. I was only one voting him for the majority of the day until you hopped on for like two minutes but I would hardly call that a wagon.

But I guess I can help with your plan. I'm still scum reading Penguin and I'm null scum on Prism. I believe those two were on the Snake wagon.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@dierfire: last think I see you say about boring is that you've read up on her but don't find anything really alignment indicative. What do you think of her after the eager+maria townflips, and/or why don't you agree with my points on her?

@LUV: can you elaborate on why you disagree with the case on boring? Can you elaborate on your null-scum read on prism, and on your scumread of penguin (is it just lingering things from long ago, or is it more strongly based on his recent posting)?

You can find thoughts on boring when she had some serious heat on her are in #1048 and #1347. For current thoughts you will have to get back to me, still trying to understand why she's still currently voting for me.

As for Prism, I reread his ISO and something about his reads feel fake to me. I'm not sure if that's correct way to put it but basically the stances he is taking on everyone seem very safe. It feels like he can easily fall back on them or conveniently change them at a moments notice with little to no scrutiny.

My read on Penguin is still the same from #522. It has grown some with how quiet he's been and Gamma's insistence on basing his read on him on a reaction that could be easily faked.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Dierfire After skimming the game with PP, reviewed already by both you and Implosion, I agree more with Implosion. His reaction earlier felt more genuine and more brash than the game linked.

Reading Dierfire as an ISO has made his posts a lot easier to parse. I like his reasoning for PP and Gamma even though I'm not suspicious of PP, his reads go into a lot of depth (not necessarily a towntell) but he's been straightforward and active all game. The only vote that strikes me as opportunistic would be his vote on Eager, but I and several other town players agreed on it and did the same thing. I agree with the first and third responses about boring in his #1659. My impression is that he's town but clearly competent-if I need to revisit it later, I will. I can go more indepth on this if anyone wants but I'm trying to keep my explanations short.

My reads have changed with that flip but first some thoughts on today's posts: reading Implosion I'm still suspicious but the more he posts the more I'm beginning to suspect it's just his ego. A lot of his Day 1 makes a lot more sense (in particular the "boring has the same reads as me") from that angle and his posts today have been a lot more solid. In particular, I see little reason as scum to not take the free mislynch on eager. I'd be surprised if anything other than two scum were on that wagon, and Implosion wasn't on it. His posts today have been equally condescending but after reading the game with PP that read of his seems legitimate, and the way he's playing is quickly boxing himself in for lategame if he's mafia. Some of his statements today I could see deeper machinations behind but it required a lot of mental gymnastics to arrive at.

That Maria kill was (obviously) made for a reason. Looking at our cast it's hard to imagine Shadow or nn30 getting lynched anytime soon, making them great kills. On the other hand, I was still suspicious of Maria and very few people outed a townread on her as far as I remember. She'd get some credit for trying to lynch outside Eager but how much? Scum needed 3 or 4 mislynches to win this game, and with at least 2 people I can think of who are unlikely to be lynched ever it's strange to go for Maria over them, or even over people like myself, Grendel, or Implosion if we're all town. It could have been made to implicate boring or Dierfire but as everyone and their mother has pointed out it'd be pretty minor and hardly worth the value of a dead nulltown over a dead hardtown.

Looking at Maria's ISO, either one of them is really scum, more likely boring than Dierfire in my opinion, or MariaR is 5/5 in her townreads in #751. I'm inclined to believe the latter regardless of if the former is true. Cry WIFOM but you want but you only WIFOM if you think you're more likely to win because of it. This kill doesn't make sense if other, more town players are on the right track. nn30, Shadow, and PP line up nicely with my reads, Eager is flipped, and Grendel isn't a stretch. It seems unlikely for any of them to kill her if they're scum. I think they're all town, Grendel being the one I'm least sure on.

LUV probably needs to be strung up. I still don't like the quantity-over-quality posts early in the game and that flop was awful. This explanation in particular seems really unlikely to me:

Also, my case on Shadow was looking like it was never going to be taken seriously, so I decided to pressure my newly found scum read on Snake.

Does scumreading both Snake and Shadow yesterday make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me. I still need to reread him some more, and especially find other games to see if he's always like this, but for now he's a great spot to park my vote.

VOTE: LUV

Boring got mostly a free pass from me later in the day yesterday due to implosion/Maria/eager being the ones leading on her but 2 of these have flipped town and 1 is no longer a power scumread. She's earned a spot at the top of my reread queue along with LUV.

As a final note I don't like the record keeping on who believed the 2 town ascetics. We had a wide variety of views on the ascetic claims-from me believing either both were town or only Shadow was to Shadow's adamant belief that eager had to be scum. Assuming only 3 mafia and no third party that wagon had at least 4 town, and more likely than not 5 or 6. What to believe about the ascetics is definitely a lot easier to fake than faking reads on players outside them-I think it's a red herring and don't like looking too deeply into it.

I don't see how I haven't made it clear why I started scum reading Snake towards the end of Day 1. Why are you implying that I was scum reading Snake for the majority of the day?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@boring
You seemed to suggest that you would be able to make useful information from the wagon on you (1037). You've made defenses against the arguments offered by nn30 and implosion (1614); would it be accurate to say that you found implosion the more suspicious of the two (for reasons given in 1609)? Would it be accurate to say that you found implosion the most suspicious of all those players who voted for you?
Also, I'm not seeing that Lil Uzi Vert voted for you. I assume therefore that you find Lil Uzi Vert more suspicious than the most suspicious player who voted for you (presumptively implosion, otherwise specify the player)?

Obviously, at the time, I thought eager was scum. I also thought either Maria or implosion might be a buddy. Obviously, eager and Maria have flipped town, which left me to re-evaluate. I still think there has to be at least one scum on my wagon, and that it leaves implosion, gamma, and nn30 as the scum pool. I don't think Gamma is scum, but if Grendel's right, I'm basing my assumption on something NAI. I don't think nn30 is scum, because even his conf.bias issues seemed towny. I really try not to OMGUS, so I want to take my time on implosion, but he's the POE candidate at the moment.

That's why I set it aside and started looking elsewhere. Regardless of that development, I think LUV is scum, and his flat response didn't help. Yesterday, the only thing that made me doubt his scumminess was that as scum, it would have been all too easy for him to hop on my wagon and save eager. Now, knowing eager is town, he looks worse again, as all he needed was for someone to be at L-1.

What was exactly flat about my response? You sound like you were having doubts about Eager being scum and if so, why didn't you state you were when I declared intent? We are all to blame for what happened Day 1 but no one seems to feel remorseful about it at all.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gotcha. Still doesn't change my read on him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You want me to? Day is still young.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Never said you were my strongest scum read and I'm not refraining from anything. I'm taking my time and reevualting.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why does it make no sense?

Tone and gut for me, at least what I got from what when I reread your ISO last night.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nitpicking about inconsistencies =/= trying to find inconsistencies.

Also another thing I noticed, you seemed concerned about how you look. A few posts in your ISO if I recall you were frustrated at people for their reasoning for town reading you. It's as if you worried someone will go back and wonder why you're so widely town read by the majority.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Never said you were my strongest scum read and I'm not refraining from anything. I'm taking my time and reevualting.

I was one of two of your scumreads in 522 which haven't changed, and I've only grown since then. According to you.

You seem to like to stay in an unvote state...it's kind of nice not to take a stance on anything, right? Gotta keep those options open until you can hammer town.

Actually, while looking back at vote counts at yours, Zoronos was in an unvote state in every. single. one. He has lots to say, but not much to do.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zoronos

I do, I like to be 90 percent sure that whoever I'm voting for is scum unless my hand is forced, like it was yesterday with Snake.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nitpicking about inconsistencies =/= trying to find inconsistencies.

If you haven't voted LUV and need a reason, read my #1689 and this response.

Also another thing I noticed, you seemed concerned about how you look. A few posts in your ISO if I recall you were frustrated at people for their reasoning for town reading you. It's as if you worried someone will go back and wonder why you're so widely town read by the majority.

Is this a scumtell?

I'm quoting both of our statements and showing that they're not the same thing. One is saying she was nitpicking about inconsistencies, the other is saying she is trying to find inconsistencies.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nitpicking about inconsistencies =/= trying to find inconsistencies.

If you haven't voted LUV and need a reason, read my #1689 and this response.

Also another thing I noticed, you seemed concerned about how you look. A few posts in your ISO if I recall you were frustrated at people for their reasoning for town reading you. It's as if you worried someone will go back and wonder why you're so widely town read by the majority.

Is this a scumtell?

It might be. Not sure what to make it, just pointing out what I noticed.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Woah, forgot about this game. I read up and this what I have so far.

I'm a little disturbed by Penguin's push on Zoro. It reads as if he's not been reading what Zoro been asking and thinking. Just skimming. Zoro has been sorting like a mad man and his conclusions and observations have been worth the read so far.

I also don't forget how you can forget a read on someone. This is the only thing that has pinged me about Gamma really. I find it hard to believe and the only explanation that seems to make sense is that he's faking his reads. The question then becomes, is this some sort of next level strategy to catch scum or is he scum feeling pressured to put up content?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Woah, forgot about this game. I read up and this what I have so far.

I'm a little disturbed by Penguin's push on Zoro. It reads as if he's not been reading what Zoro been asking and thinking. Just skimming. Zoro has been sorting like a mad man and his conclusions and observations have been worth the read so far.

I also don't forget how you can forget a read on someone. This is the only thing that has pinged me about Gamma really. I find it hard to believe and the only explanation that seems to make sense is that he's faking his reads. The question then becomes, is this some sort of next level strategy to catch scum or is he scum feeling pressured to put up content?

So which one are you going to vote?

Heavily leaning Gamma right now but I just don't think he's doing either of the things that I had posed after rereading his ISO. I really don't buy the forgetting the reads thing though and it downright just doesn't sit well with me at this point. I'll have to sleep on it and see where my heads at tomorrow.

I can forget a read because there's a lot of stuff to take in; a current read can displace some of my memories of a past read.

What's been a lot to take in? If I recall correctly, you haven't shown signs of being overwhelmed.

Woah, forgot about this game. I read up and this what I have so far.

I'm a little disturbed by Penguin's push on Zoro. It reads as if he's not been reading what Zoro been asking and thinking. Just skimming. Zoro has been sorting like a mad man and his conclusions and observations have been worth the read so far.

I also don't forget how you can forget a read on someone. This is the only thing that has pinged me about Gamma really. I find it hard to believe and the only explanation that seems to make sense is that he's faking his reads. The question then becomes, is this some sort of next level strategy to catch scum or is he scum feeling pressured to put up content?

He forgot reads before as well. I called him out earlier in the game on it.

That you did. Noted!

@Gamma Emerald

I said "I have evidence that me and Eager are not scumbuddies" and he flipped town. Why the fuck would I say that as scum? I'd just be like "okay I know I'm safe from this point so just forget about it". It indicates I did not know his alignment before the flip, clearing me.

I will argue that the underlined is precisely what you have done!

---
I read the case presented by Grendel in 1769. I haven't read the off-site game in question (yet, probably I will not do so at all as Gamma Emerald seems not to dispute the facts but rather to argue that he didn't have sufficient experience with Grendel to read him as well as Grendel seems to think he should have). The depth of the case reassures me about Grendel and encourages me in my vote on Gamma Emerald.

---
I don't like that Lil Uzi Vert hasn't cast a vote yet today. My next task is reading Lil Uzi Vert; this will happen within roughly 24 hours.

Why don't you like that I haven't? Who do you think I should be voting for?

Actually, hey Boring who do you think is the scum and why?

LUV because he's been scummy. I don't think he forgot about the game, by the way. How do you forget you're in a game? I think he was lurking in the hopes that we'd forget about him and focus on other players. I mean at this point, unless he's REALLY bad town, it's his best chance to stay alive as scum.

I've been rethinking my stance on Gamma. As I said before to Grendel, I think I have a stronger town read on Grendel than Gamma, and Grendel is putting his word on the line that Gamma is scum. I skimmed through the last game (I'll admit I didn't scour it because if I had time to scour a game, I'd be better off doing this one) and he didn't "forget" who he was voting for. He was flaky, of course, but consistent within his own pattern of whatever.

I can also see how Penguin could be scum, but I really don't think he and Gamma could be scum together.

Every time implosion feels scummy. His posts seem opportunistic, he errs on the side of strawman, and he's unnecessarily hostile. On the other hand, he might not be scum.

I think Shadow could be scum because eager, but I've accepted that I could have just been wrong. It's just that the idea of two ascetics is crazy.

I've had a few tinfoils run through my head in which nn30, Grendel, and/or Prism could be scum, but I already have more scum than there are scum, and so I don't have time to entertain it.

Forgot as in I'm in like 2 other games right and I'm way into one of those of two a lot more then I'm into this one. Without violating site rules as to why I am, I'll just leave it at the fact that I'm human.

Hi all, apologies for my absence.

I haven't had time to do any of my project rereads and won't until Saturday.

Skimming the last few pages, Gamma's repeated inconsistency is definitely worth more looking into but it appears to be largely due to lack of caring. Can anyone with experience with Gamma weigh in on how well he keeps his read mapping straight in games he's flipped town?

Also still need more LUV votes, I hate to be mean but if he's town he's dug himself a hole he's not getting out of minus becoming mechanically clear. Plagiarizing me, saying I was null afterwards, denying it, and being unable to substantiate any of his claims about me all add up to a headscratcher of a game if he's town. I don't think assuming he's scum for it is a bad idea.

I didn't plagiarize you and even if I did, you're implying that I couldn't have you at null. Again, why are you so concerned with how you're being read?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Could the people who scum read Implosion tell me why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah I just skimmed Implosion's ISO and outside of the theory stuff I don't really see why he's being scum read.

His frustration with Shadow sounds like it's coming from town and I think his back and forth with boring is play style and personality clash.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Could the people who scum read Implosion tell me why?

- My problem with Implosion is that he seems focused on arguing about things, rather than hunting scum. His posts from last night were lots of theory, and argumentation with other players, but none of those arguments were part of offensive scum cases. There was some defensive arguments, and some "You're playing bad" but no focus on finding scum. That's what bothers me about Implosion.

I wouldn't say he's interested in arguing because if I'm recalling correctly, outside of his take on using meta he hasn't really incited or started arguments about what I assume to be things you find irrelevant. He just seems to be passionate about how he plays and he's defending that because he's been attacked about some of his views and opinions.

I think he needs to look outside of boring more though but for now I don't see anything scummy from him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have some good reasons me and Eager can't be scum, but I'll wait until tomorrow.

I was promising a defense on why me and Eager could not be partners.

Also calling it 'scum theater' implies that there is 2 scum involved, which in this scenario would mean S_S and I are performing scum theater. Basically setting herself up to lynch him tomorrow when I flip

WHAT
You could have phrased that better.

BTW, this was going to be my proof that me and Eager weren't buddies. Why the hell wouldn't I state this in the scum chat? I decided to quote this because boring raised the concern of my promising a defense on allegations of being buddies with Eager being a fake clear.

And this was going to be my proof.

Why did you feel the need to bring this up? Seems pretty irrelevant now.

I'll be back in a few hours to most something else I've mean meaning to do since this day started.

I don't like that Lil Uzi Vert hasn't cast a vote yet today. My next task is reading Lil Uzi Vert; this will happen within roughly 24 hours.

Why don't you like that I haven't? Who do you think I should be voting for?

Because you're afraid of having to be held accountable for you actions lol

How about voting Gamma? He is clearly among your top suspects yea?

Grendel, you probably want to stop relying on trivial 'x clears me' . It convinces nobody and replaces useful content. And is annoying.
Helpful hint.

???

I'm not afraid at all, I hammered yesterday. I just don't want a repeat of Day 1, as in a mislynch but I guess I just have to understand that it happens. I just want play a flawless game but this is quickly teaching me how impossible that is.

Hrm
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert
OPPORTUNISTIC VOTE

Um, ok.

Also, it seems I'm catching a lot of flack for forgetting who I townread. How is being forgetful scummy? I would think it's towny to forget, as scum need to keep a proper facade. I've forgotten what I've said in the past multiple times. Do you seriously think I would slip up so many times as scum?

I don't see how you don't see being forgetful is scummy. It shows you're making no effort to solve the game and are not only keeping a facade, but hiding behind a mask. It isn't that hard to reread or keep notes.

As for slipping, you could be pretending to be so scummy that you can't possible be scum.

But I've done it multiple times. Do you think I would be so bad as scum to screw up so much? Do you think I wouldn't have been told in daychat what to say?

You keep acting as if playing the too scummy to be scum card isn't a thing. Why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

In response to Grendal:

I'm not afraid at all, I hammered yesterday. I just don't want a repeat of Day 1, as in a mislynch but I guess I just have to understand that it happens. I just want to play a flawless game but this site is quickly teaching me how impossible that is.

EBWOP

Because daychat exists; I would have stopped fucking up due to warnings from my teammates if I was scum. The legit ONLY way I could be mafia at this point was if I was a Traitor, which I am not.

And the rest of the town is just suppose to rule out the possibility of a Traitor? Just take your word for it?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If I was a traitor, I would have likely buddied the fuck out of someone to paint them as mafia. I haven't buddied anyone.
Also:
LUV, instead of continuing to argue his original point, decided to cede to my Traitor statement.
Looks like scum trying to play it safe on the push.

I decided to humor you, because not only is your statement about the only you can be mafia is if your Traitor false, it's downright insulting.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Actually looking back I buddied boring a bit at the start of the game.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well, I'm sold but I'm still in a buying mood.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This is an L-1 vote. Do not vote without stating intent and allowing a claim and discussion by all players.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Preordering

UNVOTE:

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hm, Shadow seemed like he had more to say about Gamma's claim. Want to hear more from him.

Why am I being scum read again? Anyone actually buy the cases boring and Prism are presenting?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Penguin, why are you using meta to justify how you're playing this game? If this isn't your scum game, what does this say about your town game?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Oh and by the way, I'll be playing from here on forward. Don't think I'll have enough time to do an entire reread of Day 1.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Penguin, why are you using meta to justify how you're playing this game? If this isn't your scum game, what does this say about your town game?

I didn't bring up the meta. I'm responding to it. You're asking the wrong person.

You can still answer the second question. I'll even reword it.

If this isn't your scum game, what does how you're playing now say about your town game?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Prism - are you convinced by Zoro's post? Why or why not?

No, it just drew more attention to things I found scummy.

For example?

Penguin, why are you using meta to justify how you're playing this game? If this isn't your scum game, what does this say about your town game?

I didn't bring up the meta. I'm responding to it. You're asking the wrong person.

You can still answer the second question. I'll even reword it.

If this isn't your scum game, what does how you're playing now say about your town game?

That this is similar to my town game? What do you want me to say? Not sure how that's beneficial.

How you're playing now is similar to your town game? So you aren't actually playing your town game? Is that what you're saying?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not sure why another quote got in there.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Grab her by the pussy!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can't read me, but wants to lynch me. Huh?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I definitely see what Prism is talking about now.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

What specifically are you referring to?

The inconsistency on his Prism read.

What's inconsistent about my read on him?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It was something to do with post 522. Ask him because I can't remember the other post he referred to. The main point is your read on Prism looked fabricated.

Nitpicking about inconsistencies =/= trying to find inconsistencies.

Also another thing I noticed, you seemed concerned about how you look. A few posts in your ISO if I recall you were frustrated at people for their reasoning for town reading you. It's as if you worried someone will go back and wonder why you're so widely town read by the majority.

Nitpicking about inconsistencies =/= trying to find inconsistencies.

If you haven't voted LUV and need a reason, read my #1689 and this response.

Also another thing I noticed, you seemed concerned about how you look. A few posts in your ISO if I recall you were frustrated at people for their reasoning for town reading you. It's as if you worried someone will go back and wonder why you're so widely town read by the majority.

Is this a scumtell?

I'm quoting both of our statements and showing that they're not the same thing. One is saying she was nitpicking about inconsistencies, the other is saying she is trying to find inconsistencies.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well then.
LUV - Talk to me. Who are your best scum reads? What do you think about the people voting on you - Whose cases are bad? Or do you think it's all mistaken town? (I am presuming here you are going to claim town and that you're being mislynched.

I feel confident about Penguin but even more so about boring. We're nearly 90 pages in and it's very concerning that no one can't find a reason to town read her. I've also defended myself against her case and she refuses to acknowledge that and is just asking anyone and everyone to vote for me. Prism is doing the same thing, even after I pointed out the problem with his case.

Since I believe Gamma's claim, Impolsion is confirmed town but I don't understand why he has made no effort to read me which makes me question everything. I'm also very suspicious of Grendal now after he just lazily hopped on.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Intent to hammer LUV

I'm a town doc.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So.... did LUV just straight up ghost the thread?

I was typing lol.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

If I'm understanding correctly, is this setup possible? If I'm understanding Asectic correctly, it neturalizes the power our PR roles have.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well I'm conflicted because I had town read you up until this point Zoronos and the likelihood of prove of this setup being possible seems to be nonexistent at the moment. I don't know what to think or what to do now honestly due to my lack of inexperience in a situation like this.

Anyway, I protected Dierfire Night 1. He was one of my strongest town reads and I thought scum would be threatened by the observations he made.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Okay this is bull and is basically a popularity contest. Let's look at the reasons why I'm being scum read.

1.) Activity
2.) Hammering Eager
3.) Supposedly plagiarizing

Activity is NAI. I work, go to school part-time, and have a social life. I don't have time to be on here all day and everything doesn't need to be commented on or given a response. Like I don't know if people on this site are aware of that or what but threads shouldn't be near 90 pages on Day 2.

I already stated why my read on Snake changed and why I hammered. I stated intent and gave a day before hammering to see if my theory about him asking for a no lynch was a reaction test, if he or anyone else had any reasons as to why Snake shouldn't be lynched, and/or if anyone would come around to my case on Shadow. My theory turned out to be wrong and the latter two didn't happened. I hammered and unfortunately he flipped town. If you're going to scum read me for hammering, at least give everyone else on that wagon the same sort of treatment.

Prism keeps saying that I was plagiarizing him. For the last time, looking and nitpicking are not the same thing, not even close. Even if they were, he is implying that I couldn't have him as null because I plagiarized him. Does that make sense to anyone else? Why couldn't I have had him as null because I liked this thoughts on boring? How does giving thoughts on boring make one worthy of a town read?

I can understand if I'm still seen as scummy even after this post but these are the current reasons I'm being scum read and I'm not sure why I'm being lynched over them. I know I'm town, I know I'm the doc, and I purposely decided to go under the radar to prevent what's happening now and from scum targeting me at night. Lynching me is basically throwing the game, we have it practically solved if we're still believing Gamma's claim and follow his plan he laid out. Lynch within in boring, Grendal, Penguin, and Shadow or if not lynch Zoro because that's where my vote is going to be parked on.

VOTE: Zoronos

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lynch within in boring, Grendal, Penguin, and Shadow or if not lynch Zoro because that's where my vote is going to be parked on.

This isn't even the correct version of Gamma's plan.

Gamma's "outside LUV / Zoro" grouping is myself, Grendel, PP, Prism, and Boring. He specifically said to leave out the likely town Shadow.

Yeah I tweaked it some.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lynch within in boring, Grendal, Penguin, and Shadow or if not lynch Zoro because that's where my vote is going to be parked on.

This isn't even the correct version of Gamma's plan.

Gamma's "outside LUV / Zoro" grouping is myself, Grendel, PP, Prism, and Boring. He specifically said to leave out the likely town Shadow.

looking and nitpicking are not the same thing, not even close.

Uh, yeah, sure. If you say so.

Even if they were, he is implying that I couldn't have him as null because I plagiarized him. Does that make sense to anyone else? Why couldn't I have had him as null because I liked this thoughts on boring? How does giving thoughts on boring make one worthy of a town read?

Was I just null though?

Why couldn't I have had him as null because I liked this thoughts on boring? How does giving thoughts on boring make one worthy of a town read?

Prism - Just subbed in. Nothing to go off of.

I fail to see how as town you still vehemently insist that that thought was original even when a glance makes it obvious you were influenced in some way. Not even the only reason I'm voting you anyway.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Anything to say for yourself LUV?

No, I said what I had to say.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Are you even looking at what I'm saying? I'm saying even if I were, as in I wasn't but if I were.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Because he's restating the same thing I've pointed out as being false.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Prism you did all you could out there man, if it wasn't for luck we would be the ones cheering.