Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

nn30
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Post Post #1750  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:46 pm

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

podoboq
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Post Post #1751  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:47 pm

Official Vote Count 2.09
LynchingWith 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

Gamma Emerald (4): Shadow_step, Dierfire, Grendel, nn30
Penguin Power (2): Gamma Emerald, Zoronos
Lil Uzi Vert (2): boring, Prism
boring (1): implosion
Zoronos (1): PenguinPower

Not Voting (1): Lil Uzi Vert,


Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-30 12:31:00)
Last edited by podoboq on Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"

Zoronos
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Post Post #1752  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:47 pm

In post 1748, nn30 wrote:That's what did it for you? I thought you vote slow and seldom. It doesn't feel like you to post a vote without much thought.


My vote was already on him before I mad-voted Gamma.
I wanted to take the opportunity to rethink and evaluate my read. I asked him a pretty reasonable question so that I could inspect his reasoning - I wanted to see if I my read was incorrect or if I could learn something useful.
Instead of engaging, he refused to answer (a pretty reasonable) question on the grounds that he scum read me ergo he didn't need to respond.

If he is going to actively thwart my attempts to develop my read, yeah I'm just going to vote.

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Post Post #1753  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:49 pm

@Zoronos - fair explanation.

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Post Post #1754  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:52 pm

In post 481, Gamma Emerald wrote:Any doubts I had about PP just vanished.


I understand that things have happened since this post, but the fact that he's voting for PP right now feels off.

This quote feels like a fairly strong town read. Wouldn't you act at least a little bit disappointed that one of your reads from earlier is clearly wrong?

My explanation for Gamma's actions - he faked the town read on PP to begin with. That's why he doesn't (seem) to remember now.

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Post Post #1755  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:08 am

Didn't really find time today to keep up. Alas.

One thing I'll mention that I've been mulling over in my head for a while now... it seems like the eager voters can be vaguely split into two piles: those who voted him because of shadow's claim (which includes shadow and boring) and those who voted him for other reasons, presumably mostly for his reaction to the claim and subsequent play (which might be the majority of or all of the rest of the wagon, not sure). The first group presumably voted for eager because they found two town ascetics unlikely or impossible... so they should now be suspicious of shadow for his claim, right? Ultimately shadow shouldn't be suspicious of himself obviously, and boring has expressed a strong townread on shadow which was also part of the basis of the eager scumread. But if she was confident enough that shadow's claim was actually a counterclaim - that is, that there can't be two town ascetics - shouldn't she be questioning her shadow read? She was so confident in shadow's claim countering eager's that eager shot from 2nd townread to 1st scumread. And yes, she says that townread came entirely from his claim. But did she not even entertain the possibility that both claims were town? And if so why is she even entertaining it now? She quickly criticized eager for jumping to the possibility of two town ascetics instead of challenging shadow, even when she herself had a very strong townread on shadow... it seems reasonable that she should have seen it as possible or even likely, if eager was town, for him to think that.

This is sort of stream-of-consciousness. But ugh. I know I am tunneling right now but I actually just can't get past these things.

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Post Post #1756  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:33 am

@Gamma Emerald
In post 1669, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also, I think me putting up a promise of a case of why me and Eager can't be buddies pretty much clears me now that he flipped town.

That's an interesting thing to say. How so?

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Post Post #1757  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:34 am

@Grendel
In post 1729, Grendel wrote:I'd like to know more about why boring is 2nd scum for you when you found most the other players cases on her uncompelling.

Is the crux of your case that she finds LUV scummier then Implosion, when through PoE she should be on Implosion?

How do you feel about Implosion?


It would not be accurate to say that boring is a Mafia read for me. I am having difficulty finding clues as to her alignment, and I feel that many proposed reasons to be suspicious of her do not hold water (this is not the same as reading her as Town). The reason that I am placing such a priority on determining her alignment is that, as one of the leading D1 wagons, her alignment carries significant information about the state of the game at that time.

I've exhausted my time for now, but I'll be back tomorrow and will discuss implosion at that time.

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Post Post #1758  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:53 am

In post 1746, Zoronos wrote:
In post 1744, Grendel wrote:
In post 1732, Zoronos wrote:VOTE: PenguinPower
k then.


I should clarify that my stance on Penguin is that he is a lazy player whose play style I dislike, but the scum read on him is light enough that I ordinarily wouldn't have voted him in this situation.

I mainly wanted to obligate Zoronos into making a real vote. So mission accomplished.

Though I guess Penguin did a decent job of that himself.


Ummmm... what?
I am not really sure how you thought you were obligating me to do things, mind explaining your thought process there?


easy, i started a wagon on your scum read to remove any reservations you might have been having about voting it. The act itself wasn't an attempt on you alignment, more so a book mark so i know when/where you had suspicions. Like reading your suspensions D1 is time consuming because your hesitating to vote made who you thought to be top scum lordz really vague.

Unless, of course you suddenly started bucking the prospect of voting Pengu. That would have been pretty questionable.

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Post Post #1759  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:01 am

In post 1756, Dierfire wrote:@Gamma Emerald
In post 1669, Gamma Emerald wrote:Also, I think me putting up a promise of a case of why me and Eager can't be buddies pretty much clears me now that he flipped town.

That's an interesting thing to say. How so?

Why would I put up a defense on allegations of me and Eager being on a scum team if I was scum and knew he was town? I'd let the matter slide.
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boring
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Post Post #1760  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:29 am

In post 1743, Grendel wrote:Nope.

VOTE: Gamma

I guess I'll explain tomorrow when I put a case up. I have to get off soon.

In the meantime you can explain why you were so quick to sheep your tertiary scum read.

Don't forget to explain this. I've based a lot of my Gamma read on meta from the previous game, and you know him better than any of us.

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Post Post #1761  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:31 am

In post 1735, Gamma Emerald wrote:I've actually been fostering a Grendel scumread because of the fact I can't find anything to townread him on that's non-meta. I'm hoping things will be easier to sort with a flip.

Can you be more specific?

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Post Post #1762  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:54 am

@Gamma Emerald
In post 1759, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why would I put up a defense on allegations of me and Eager being on a scum team if I was scum and knew he was town? I'd let the matter slide.


Ha ha, but you didn't put up a defense! You just promised that one would be forthcoming after the flip (and the flip obviated the need for the defense).

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Post Post #1763  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:48 am

@Implosion - You're making a lot of assumptions. I said before that I'm still sorting things out. I don't know what to think of Shadow at the moment, and you'll see that I've not hopped on any wagons with him. I have to sort you and Shadow out. Eager was scummy to me, and the counterclaim clinched it. He flipped town ascetic, but as just about everyone has said, there was no scum motivation for Shadow's move. Unless, you think he could have predicted that outcome, which I find highly unlikely.

So I have my POE on you, and my tilting on Shadow. Him being alive still, is questionable as well. Unless scum kept him alive as a potential mislynch. Of course, your post seems like exactly the thing scum would do if disappointed that their easy mislynch candidate is being ignored (i.e., trying to maneuver a tunnelee into a vote). I very highly doubt that you could both be scum, and it's unlikely that you're both town. I still get town vibes from him. He hasn't changed a lick since the game started. Of the two, you're still the scummier. Of course, repeating myself again, I don't know if I'm letting OMGUS get in the way. Hence my decision to set this aside for now. I was wrong Day 1, and I don't want to be wrong Day 2.

I'm rather confident about LUV being scum. He could be bad town, but I'm really leaning toward scum, so that's where my vote is staying for now. I'm beginning to question Gamma, but I'd like to wait to see what Grendel has to share, and how Gamma handles whatever it is before I rescind my townlean.

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Post Post #1764  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:58 am

In post 1762, Dierfire wrote:@Gamma Emerald
In post 1759, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why would I put up a defense on allegations of me and Eager being on a scum team if I was scum and knew he was town? I'd let the matter slide.


Ha ha, but you didn't put up a defense! You just promised that one would be forthcoming after the flip (and the flip obviated the need for the defense).

I said "I have evidence that me and Eager are not scumbuddies" and he flipped town. Why the fuck would I say that as scum? I'd just be like "okay I know I'm safe from this point so just forget about it". It indicates I did not know his alignment before the flip, clearing me.
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Post Post #1765  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:00 am

In post 1761, boring wrote:
In post 1735, Gamma Emerald wrote:I've actually been fostering a Grendel scumread because of the fact I can't find anything to townread him on that's non-meta. I'm hoping things will be easier to sort with a flip.

Can you be more specific?

My belief is that if it's really hard to find evidence in favor of something that something is likely not true. I'd been having trouble finding something to justify a Grendel townread.
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Post Post #1766  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:12 pm

As for Zoronos, he did a decent amount of sorting without resorting to a vote. He also asked a lot of questions. He's a townread.
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Post Post #1767  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:28 pm

Hey, I'm having my dinner. I will post some stuff about an hour from now.

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Post Post #1768  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:08 pm

Long hours where you come from.

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Post Post #1769  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:40 pm

Spoiler:
In post 1592, Zoronos wrote:Grendel - Primarily he was afk but his posting before he left was largely off topic. He kept promising to look into Boring but that never materialized. So we'll see what he does with that today. I'm giving him a bit of a break since I assume he's not lying about IRL obligations in order to dodge mafia / excuse lurking.

In post 1594, Zoronos wrote:Grendel, I feel like you're just retreading well-covered ground.
I am uninterested in your town cases - show me scum cases.


These two posts from Zoronos should've raised questions for Gamma about me. Primarily because in my scum game with him I was only showing up to post busy work, and lurked most the first day. Mostly near EoD too.

The second one would paint me as not producing original content. Gamma views me staying within popular opinion, or trying to work hard while not actually doing anything original as a huge scum tell. (I'd say its more a tell of my lack of motivation/confidence for a game then scum specifically) ((But I am more likely to suffer motivational lapses as scum b/c I dislike the alignment))

In post 1735, Gamma Emerald wrote:Looking back at boring, she seems to have done a lot of mudslinging early Day 1(before Shadow's claim).
As for Grendel and Zoronos, those are others I need to reconsider. I've actually been fostering a Grendel scumread because of the fact I can't find anything to townread him on that's non-meta. I'm hoping things will be easier to sort with a flip.

lol, yeah "meta". I don't honestly believe you were ever looking into my meta today at this point.
In post 1736, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay nonononono this will not do. A lot of Grendel's posts in the later art of Day 1 seem to be stalling. This feels like someone being coached in day chat. I understand he has school stuff going on but it's so widespread I can't handwave it.


This attempt is too late. Gamma has seen me be a lurking scumbag before, but the fact he took so long to come to this "conclusion" feels like he wouldn't have thought to mention it if I hadn't prompted him. Which means, he was never thinking about it in the first place. The whole The first comment tells me that in response to my question he thinks that he is supposed to be suspicious of me for something, but isn’t sure what, and to compensate he makes a vague one-liner about his suspicions, which is easy to fake. The second post is like Gamma stretching to find a reason to scum read me, that could maybe tie into a meta argument. This vague scum read that he pulled out of the air while sheeping my vote screams that he is he is taking me as town at face value because he is in an informed position. It tells me the extent that he cares about looking town vs solving the game. If town Gamma hadn’t already caught on he would have just said he missed it. Town Gamma has no motivation to lie here.

Spoiler:
In post 1742, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1741, Grendel wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm thinking I know what Grendel is talking about, and I don't have anything to say about that right now. So you may as well say it because I don't think you'll get anything out of me by being vague.


If you know what I'm talking about then why do you need me to spell it out for you?

If I have to go to that extent then I'm voting you. So give me a guess.

Something about the game we were in that just ended. I don't know what you could have to say about that right now, and I personally feel there's not much that could matter.


Attempting to turn the question around on me because he doesn’t know the answer, but he doesn’t want to let on that he doesn’t know what I am talking about. Then once i threaten to vote him he gives me the kind of answer that you give somebody that is interpreted as understanding, but without actually confirming he understands.

Gamma has been building facades, and not showing physical effort to sort anybody. Me in particular. Last game together he went out of his way to try and meta me on several occasions. This game i think he did it a few times, but it was just a passing reference to a game that imo barely even applied to my play this game. And then when asked for elaboration he just insisted that I’m playing like town!grendel, and left it at that. Hold on.

Spoiler:
In post 209, Gamma Emerald wrote:He's probably town based on his current actions, but I want to see more.

In post 461, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 456, Grendel wrote:Are you scum reading Zoronos? Because you voted one of my biggest critics for being critical of me, which would imply you had a town read on me at least since then. For you to suddenly say that you weren't town reading me doesn't add up to how I recalled your actions. What specificly about my play is townie?

Also, Why is the crux of your vote for Penguin "what Grendel said"?

That puts you in a position were you could blame me if Penguin flips town. And as a whole is not informative, rather is lazy.

In post 435, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 427, Grendel wrote:@Gamma Outside of how I opened my game why are you town reading me?

I would also like an explanation as why Implosion went from scum to town, and why Shadow step went from town to what ever "need to contribute" means.

Lastly What do you think of Penguin?

Pre-edit

nn30 wrote:@Grendel

I prefaced my post with a town read on you so that you know I'm not coming at you from an antagonistic point of view.


Hmm, okay. I thought you might be worried I'd brush you off or something.

Which I wouldn't have btw.

I never stated I townread you, but this is your normal townplay, so yeah I townread you because your play is towny.
Implosion became town because he a) actually read LUV's post and b) still scumread me after like half the players stated a townread on me. Shadow needs to contribute because he hasn't seemed to have done much beyond voting LUV and PP.
PP seems like scum. His push against you has been very bad looking.


I was being critical because it was typical town play for you. I believe I stated I needed to see more to sort you out once or twice. Zoronos is still a bit of a scumread. Actually, my reads are starting to get mixed up. I may have to actually sort them out with a list.
PEdit: I am starting to scumread S_s though.

In post 475, Gamma Emerald wrote:As for why I townread Grendel, I guess it's just that this feels a lot like NPBR again.


(NPBR was a large offsite favor game we both played in)

What I think I found funniest is how fake his read on me is. Like he knows I’m town, but is pretending he isn’t quite sure so he can appear to “sort” me. I especially love the transition from” Grendel is town to”, “What I wasn’t town reading you?” while he was sheeping me, and earlier chainsaw voting on Zoronos for being critical of my methods. If I didn’t know better I’d think he was trying to link himself to me. This also makes two times where Gamma sheeped me while claiming that I was suspicious, and even on the same slot too (Penguin power). I may need to look back more, but I seem to recall other instances where Gamma's opinion's on the game state, and mine over lap quite a bit. Which is weird since he feels that nothing has been pointing towards Town!Grendel this game except for meta reasons that I basically forced out of him.

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Post Post #1770  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:46 pm

Dude, just because I have agreed with you doesn't mean I townread you. And as I said, me pre-defending myself on ties to Eager clears me.
Also, I didn't think you were a lurksack last time. What is strange is the fact you expect me to use your past behavior as scum as an indicator when you have told me before you don't have a unifying style as scum.
And I was NOT chainsawing Zoronos.
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Post Post #1771  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:48 pm

@Grendel, that was actually worth waiting for. I doubt we have to wait long for Gamma's response.

@Penguin, you made me LOL.

p-edit - LOL

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Post Post #1772  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:49 pm

What's so funny?
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Post Post #1773  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:53 pm

I don't think I'll be on at all tomorrow.

Tomorrow looks stressful, so I probably won't be in the mind set for mafia.

Gamma Emerald wrote:Dude, just because I have agreed with you doesn't mean I townread you. And as I said, me pre-defending myself on ties to Eager clears me.
Also, I didn't think you were a lurksack last time. What is strange is the fact you expect me to use your past behavior as scum as an indicator when you have told me before you don't have a unifying style as scum.
And I was NOT chainsawing Zoronos.


I said I didn't because I didn't want you falling back on that as an excuse to town read me in Eggman's game. I do in fact have separate tendencies as both alignments.

Not that it matters because you basically replaced, "this is town!grednel" last game with "This is how Grendel plays as town" this game, which is the same thing minus the commitment.

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Post Post #1774  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:54 pm

In post 1770, Gamma Emerald wrote: And as I said, me pre-defending myself on ties to Eager clears me.

Please stop. Anyone can "pre-defend" or otherwise attempt to derp clear themselves when they know who's what. The only thing you're doing by claiming to be cleared is throwing (me at least) through a too-scummy-to-be-scum loop.

Do you think Grendel has any point at all? Is anything he said true to you?

p-edit: the fact that I predicted you'd be around soon to respond and you ninja'd my prediction.

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