Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

@PP: How can you say my play is NAI when you say you saw me do it as town?

[Zoronos]

The trouble with your D1 Gamma case is that Gamma always plays in that manner. You're town reading him for reasons I find non-AI as far as Gamma goes.

I do, begrudgingly, have to support this. He was almost mislynched in a newbie game I was obvscum in because he just wears it on his sleeve.

You were voting Gamma quite recently, and never really posted much to say your read had flipped, so why is this a begrudging agreement?
Also, this is a really odd phrasing if he was town at the time, since Grendel is arguing it makes him scum now.

[Gamma Emerald]

The trouble with your D1 Gamma case is that Gamma always plays in that manner. You're town reading him for reasons I find non-AI as far as Gamma goes.

I do, begrudgingly, have to support this. He was almost mislynched in a newbie game I was obvscum in because he just wears it on his sleeve.

You were voting Gamma quite recently, and never really posted much to say your read had flipped, so why is this a begrudging agreement?
Also, this is a really odd phrasing if he was town at the time, since Grendel is arguing it makes him scum now.

The second line is exactly my point: your words directly conflict with Grendel's words, PP.

[PenguinPower]

If, for some small reason, you end up town...I hope you're smarter than the post above.

p-edit1

Haven't seen your scum game

p-edit2

I still think he's scum. Just had to agree with the statement because it's true as far as the "non-AI" that I quoted. Wow. Really?

p-edit3

Slow the "f" down guys. Damn. Read above in p-edit2.

[Gamma Emerald]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=68299
My only completed scum game on this site. Take a look.

[PenguinPower]

Why do you think that is helpful to you?

[Gamma Emerald]

I want you to compare my town play to my scum play. Also, look at the scum PT.

[PenguinPower]

You wanted me to see your violation of board rules? Sorry, can you be a bit more specific as to what you want me to see?

[Gamma Emerald]

My WHAT? I want you to see my way I play as scum and check if it's the play I'm doing here.

[boring]

@zoronos - I've found my scum, made my case, and I've staked out a few more options. Sure, I have one more scum read than there are scum, but I'm working on it. I've hunted down some town too, whom I'm using as a gauge for my own reads.So I don't know where you get off saying I've not been hunting. Especially with all your largely voteless posturing. Vote LUV, and find out how much hunting I've done.

I feel you've been much more reactive than pro-active, but if I can't get any traction on PP, my vote will be on LUV because I don't think it's going on Gamma at this juncture.
[/quote]
With so much heat on me Day 1, while I was V/LA, I only had time to keep my head above water. Since then, I've slowly gained traction. At least to the point that you're willing to hop onto the wagon I'm pushing. Unless you've decided that leading a wagon isn't proactive.

Or is it that you expect some insane tunnel vision? There's more to scumhunting than bitching about how ignored you are, you know.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, seriously Penguin, how is telling you to read my scum topic in a finished game violating ANY rules?

[boring]

I don't get why people say Gamma and PP can't both be scum, by the way. Or do we think they're both such morons that they can't possibly fake this?

[PenguinPower]

My WHAT? I want you to see my way I play as scum and check if it's the play I'm doing here.

Post 55 in the Scum PT that you linked.

I'm not seeing a discernible difference if that's what you're going for. I'll re-read when I'm not three scotches in...don't see much changing though.

[boring]

Gamma. You're defending yourself very, very poorly. Your defences are nonsensical.

@Grendel - has he ever done this as town that you know of? He didn't try these stunts when he was town with me.

[Gamma Emerald]

My WHAT? I want you to see my way I play as scum and check if it's the play I'm doing here.

Post 55 in the Scum PT that you linked.

Oh THAT.
LOL it stayed in the PT.

[boring]

Wow. Sorry about post #1884. My phone butchered the quotes. That was supposed to be my quote, then zoronos's quote, and then my response.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma. You're defending yourself very, very poorly. Your defences are nonsensical.

@Grendel - has he ever done this as town that you know of? He didn't try these stunts when he was town with me.

No I definitely remember doing something similar in that game.

[PenguinPower]

So you still don't understand what that rule means. Great. Not talking about that anymore with you.

p-edit

@gamma

[boring]

I also feel like we're missing a lot of players.

[PenguinPower]

Only 3-4 within the past day.

[implosion]

Things that make me think Gamma is town:

-The insistence that he is pseudo-confirmed town. Now, I suspect I'm going to get a lot of disagreement here. But there are two reasons I think this is a pretty significant towntell. One, I don't see the scum motivation for continuing to state it and re-state it. If he's scum, he sure as hell knows it's a bullshit argument and that it's going to be debunked; it's not the kind of thing that people are going to likely fall for, and so it's not the kind of thing that scum are likely to go for as a direct ploy to try to trick people into thinking that it's true. If anything, continuing to repeat that he should be confirmed town at this point and that the only way he could possibly be scum is if he's a traitor is suicidal as scum after it clearly isn't going to work. Two, and this is somewhat in contrast to point one... I am somewhat inclined to straightforwardly believe him. But this is less significant than point one.

-The read forgetting. I know I called this scummy earlier but it's extremely context-dependent... and it's a little worrying that people are pushing him so much for this when I feel like I just repeated it over and over again earlier (at least I think this is the point I was repeating earlier a bunch and was being ignored). In this context it's not as bad I think (although I haven't looked over it that closely. Frankly, things like 1833 are not reminiscent of scum trying to defend themselves from obviously very scummy things they've done.

-This goes hand in hand with both of those points but he's displaying a certain irreverence with regards to his own life. That also just doesn't read as concerned scum. He's not really flailing or struggling to get pressure off him. He's just going with things and continuing to play.

Note that all of this is from my memory of the game (i didn't actually re-read over much so details of my memory may be fuzzy esp. since i'm typing this at 2 am or so).

[Shadow_step]

@Prism what are your current reads?

[Grendel]

Gamma. You're defending yourself very, very poorly. Your defences are nonsensical.

@Grendel - has he ever done this as town that you know of? He didn't try these stunts when he was town with me.

He has flailed as town before.

I haven't seen him react under heavy pressure as scum yet. The game I had witnessed real time with Scum!Gamma he was day vigged before he really started defending himself.

And I don't see Gamma really getting put under lots of pressure in Desperation mafia. Unless I missed something, but he was never high on any Vote counts.

[Grendel]

@Prism what are your current reads?

You're still happy with where your vote is right?

[Grendel]

Things that make me think Gamma is town:

-The insistence that he is pseudo-confirmed town. Now, I suspect I'm going to get a lot of disagreement here. But there are two reasons I think this is a pretty significant towntell. One, I don't see the scum motivation for continuing to state it and re-state it. If he's scum, he sure as hell knows it's a bullshit argument and that it's going to be debunked; it's not the kind of thing that people are going to likely fall for, and so it's not the kind of thing that scum are likely to go for as a direct ploy to try to trick people into thinking that it's true. If anything, continuing to repeat that he should be confirmed town at this point and that the only way he could possibly be scum is if he's a traitor is suicidal as scum after it clearly isn't going to work. Two, and this is somewhat in contrast to point one... I am somewhat inclined to straightforwardly believe him. But this is less significant than point one.

-The read forgetting. I know I called this scummy earlier but it's extremely context-dependent... and it's a little worrying that people are pushing him so much for this when I feel like I just repeated it over and over again earlier (at least I think this is the point I was repeating earlier a bunch and was being ignored). In this context it's not as bad I think (although I haven't looked over it that closely. Frankly, things like 1833 are not reminiscent of scum trying to defend themselves from obviously very scummy things they've done.

-This goes hand in hand with both of those points but he's displaying a certain irreverence with regards to his own life. That also just doesn't read as concerned scum. He's not really flailing or struggling to get pressure off him. He's just going with things and continuing to play.

Note that all of this is from my memory of the game (i didn't actually re-read over much so details of my memory may be fuzzy esp. since i'm typing this at 2 am or so).

Okay, so how do you feel about the, "if I were scum I'd do "x", not "y"" defenses that Gamma has put up?

I personally say that kind of think a lot as scum. So when I see a player doing it a lot it sends up a read flag for me.