Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 2.13

Lynching

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

Gamma Emerald (5): Shadow_step, Dierfire, Grendel, nn30, Lil Uzi Vert
Lil Uzi Vert (3): boring, Prism, Gamma Emerald
Penguin Power (1): Zoronos
boring (1): implosion
Zoronos (1): PenguinPower

Not Voting (0): nobody

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-30 12:31:00)

[Grendel]

The trouble with your D1 Gamma case is that Gamma always plays in that manner. You're town reading him for reasons I find non-AI as far as Gamma goes.

I do, begrudgingly, have to support this. He was almost mislynched in a newbie game I was obvscum in because he just wears it on his sleeve.

You were voting Gamma quite recently, and never really posted much to say your read had flipped, so why is this a begrudging agreement?
Also, this is a really odd phrasing if he was town at the time, since Grendel is arguing it makes him scum now.

Actually I'm arguing that Gamma's play style is a null read. He doesn't play like a survivor as either town or mafia. So I think that town reading him for how he charges through the game unbothered is folly.

[Grendel]

The reason I'm scum reading him is for his poor interactions with me.

His lack of effort and or interest in sorting people he has played with before (Me in particular).

For trying to put up a pretense of knowledge where he had none. As I said before Town!Gamma has no reason to lie.

And lastly that he kept me as a null-scum lean while immediately sheeping me onto Penguin twice. During D1, and after proposing a bare bones argument D2.

It was not just meta Zoronos

[Gamma Emerald]

With PenguinPower technically having already claimed intent, I don't see any reason not to claim at this point.
I'm a Town Cop with a Night 1 Town result on Implosion.

[Zoronos]

O.o

So, your only mention of Implosion today was

So other than Eager, Maria and implosion, who believed there could be 2 town ascetics?

Which I guess fits with 2-conf-town plus an investigation. Welp.

[Zoronos]

I think some folks should unvote while we wait for people to check in and see if there's a counterclaim.

[Prism]

Hi all,

Sorry for being deadweight recently. I've got a few free hours today so I'll try and catch up later tonight.

[boring]

I think some folks should unvote while we wait for people to check in and see if there's a counterclaim.

Now, to make the request more prominent...

Someone please unvote Gamma so no one can "accidentally" hammer.

[Grendel]

hmm... okay.

UNVOTE:

I think I'd like to hear what shadow has to say about this.

[Dierfire]

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm catching up right now.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Preordering

UNVOTE:

[Dierfire]

Official Vote Count 1.26

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

boring (5): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion, Gamma Emerald, nn30
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel
PenguinPower (1): Dierfire
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Prism

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

This VC is where I'm starting.
So, eagerSnake is Town and 4/5 players on the boring wagon are Town. Although it's clear to me that my reads have not been superb in this game, I still think that Shadow_step is close to mechanistically clear by virtue of his claim.

If boring is Town, it's unlikely that the Mafia players would find a reason to avoid her wagon (makes nn30 more suspicious) and it makes PenguinPower the most suspicious player on the eagerSnake wagon. Lil Uzi Vert remains the most suspicious of the players on neither wagon.
If boring is Mafia, it makes nn30 less suspicious and probably increases the chances that we're looking at something like: boring, either PenguinPower or Grendel, and one of the players on neither wagon.

PenguinPower and Lil Uzi Vert are fairly suspicious regardless of whether boring is Town or Mafia. PenguinPower is more suspicious than Grendel, which makes him a better guess for a second Mafia player working with boring to oppose her wagon and a better guess for a single Mafia player on the eagerSnake wagon. Lil Uzi Vert is more suspicious than Zoronos and Prism, which makes him a good guess for Mafia unless all Mafia players are on the important wagons.

[PenguinPower]

With PenguinPower technically having already claimed intent

So, me saying that I would hammer if you were the consensus at the end of the day is claiming intent? Especially when I said we have 8 days left...

That was poor thinking and a bad move. I fully believe your claim though, so I wouldn't do that anymore.

[Dierfire]

@Zoronos

PenguinPower - He put his vote on Eager quite promptly after the claim, then did nothing to try and figure out which side was telling the truth. He responded to some questions about himself (his secondary read being Gamma) and otherwise reiterated over and over to lynch Snake. Of particular note - I don't feel Penguin can be scum with either Grendel or Boring.

Do you still feel that PenguinPower is unlikely to be Mafia with Grendel or boring?

[Zoronos]

Do you still feel that PenguinPower is unlikely to be Mafia with Grendel or boring?

I am less certain that I used to be; specifically, the difficulty in getting votes to stick him on has made me less certain of that conclusion than I was at the start of the day.
Those associatives were born from looking at the D1 vote counters. 383 was the peak of the D1 Penguin votes, and boring and Grendel were both in the first-three votes on him.

I'd need to re-read the initial Penguin train to give you a better insight.

[Dierfire]

The reason that I ask is that the final VC suggests to me that there aren't many cases in which PenguinPower is Mafia without one of those players.

Official Vote Count 1.36

Lynching

FINAL

eagerSnake (7): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Prism, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert
boring (4): MariaR, implosion, nn30, eagerSnake

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Grendel

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

[Zoronos]

I see your point.
I'd need to re-read D1 to give a more complete answer.

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 2.14

Lynching

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

Gamma Emerald (2): Shadow_step, nn30
Lil Uzi Vert (2): boring, Prism
Penguin Power (2): Zoronos, Gamma Emerald
boring (1): implosion
Zoronos (1): PenguinPower

Not Voting (3): Dierfire, Grendel, Lil Uzi Vert

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-30 12:31:00)

[Grendel]

His lack of effort and or interest in sorting people he has played with before (Me in particular).

Well him being a cop would explain this.

I'm mainly concerned since I had somebody else down as our investigative PR. So this popping up leaves me to wonder if I need a general over haul of my reads since most my scum teams involve Gamma.

I wonder what the likihood is that Gamma would fake claim in this situation?

There wasn't much pressure on him in hopes of doing it for survival purposes. A scum's fake claim probably would have some closer to deadline. I don't really think Gamma would be the fake claiming type either.

[Shadow_step]

UNVOTE:

Why did you investigate implosion ?

[Shadow_step]

Also even if Gamma is telling the truth, implo isn't clear.
Town cop would imply at least one mafia role which is immune to cop. We already have 2 ascetics. Nexus is not normal. GF is blacklisted. Leaves a traitor.

[Dierfire]

A Traitor is not immune to a Cop. I'm also not convinced that the game would need a Mafia role that undercuts the investigative result of a 1-Shot Cop.

[PenguinPower]

Where did you get he was a 1-Shot Cop?

[Dierfire]

Oh, ha ha, my mistake!