Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not sure why another quote got in there.

[nn30]

Um...wow. Weak. My scum game has typically been the opposite of what I'm doing now, hence my statement. I'm moving on, because you aren't even trying to defend your (false) statement.

You're doing exactly 0 to prove me wrong.

And you're doing 0 to prove your case.

It wasn't a case to begin with. It was a weak scum read which, based on your response to it, got stronger in my eyes.

You're doing what Donald Trump has done all campaign. Instead of letting the news cycle get bored of his most recent gaffe, he goes around saying "I didn't do that, I didn't say that" and results in even more news coverage for his gaffe.

[PenguinPower]

Lulz. Ok, LUV. You caught me on semantics.

p-edit

Aw, F'no. Don't you f-ing compare me to f'ing donald f'ing Trump. Do something the f'else. But don't you bring that shit in here.

[nn30]

@Penguin

IMO, if you were town, you would have said that I was incorrect / misreading things / here's why you're wrong.

Instead you called me a liar.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Grab her by the pussy!

[PenguinPower]

@nn: That's your opinion. You could prove that you weren't a liar, but you don't.

[nn30]

Lulz. Ok, LUV. You caught me on semantics.

p-edit

Aw, F'no. Don't you f-ing compare me to f'ing donald f'ing Trump. Do something the f'else. But don't you bring that shit in here.

Game aside, best laugh I had all day. I'll leave him out of this hah.

[PenguinPower]

Glad I could give you two. Thinking you owe me something in Endgame.

[nn30]

@nn: That's your opinion. You could prove that you weren't a liar, but you don't.

Yep. Scum.

Town would be attempting to work with me and get me on their side. Because. Ya know. We need to work together to find scum.

Penguin is failing to do that.

[nn30]

Actually, I'll play ball for a second.

Penguin, please explain why I, as a townie, would lie about my meta read on you?

[Zoronos]

I am having trouble following the thread of this conversation, but I think we're in meta land again kinda.
I do appreciate that you're with me on PP -> Scum NN! But I'd prefer that meta not be used as the basis for that. Meta for, meta against, all just meta. Meta, in my experience, is fertile ground for confirmation bias. It's too easy to see what you're already looking for in meta.
Anyway. I think the most productive question to ask about PP, the one that leads me to think he's scum, is "Is PP making an earnest effort to solve the game, identify the scum, and advance his case for that? Is he working with his town reads to sort out scum from town?" I feel the answer here is no.

I'm going to be off for a few hours at least, laters.

[nn30]

I am having trouble following the thread of this conversation, but I think we're in meta land again kinda.
I do appreciate that you're with me on PP -> Scum NN! But I'd prefer that meta not be used as the basis for that. Meta for, meta against, all just meta. Meta, in my experience, is fertile ground for confirmation bias. It's too easy to see what you're already looking for in meta.
Anyway. I think the most productive question to ask about PP, the one that leads me to think he's scum, is "Is PP making an earnest effort to solve the game, identify the scum, and advance his case for that? Is he working with his town reads to sort out scum from town?" I feel the answer here is no.

I'm going to be off for a few hours at least, laters.

As I've stated, it was a weak read to begin with. It got stronger because of Penguin's reaction to it.

[Zoronos]

And I respect that. I just wanted to chime in before darting off for the rest of the evening.
That's the main reason I dislike meta. Not that it's always wrong, or that it's always right. It's just so easy to see the thing you're looking for already in it.

[nn30]

And I respect that. I just wanted to chime in before darting off for the rest of the evening.
That's the main reason I dislike meta. Not that it's always wrong, or that it's always right. It's just so easy to see the thing you're looking for already in it.

Fair.

[PenguinPower]

Actually, I'll play ball for a second.

Penguin, please explain why I, as a townie, would lie about my meta read on you?

Absolutely not. You aren't playing ball, so why should I? Prove your scum read - beyond just stating - then I will defend myself.

[nn30]

Actually, I'll play ball for a second.

Penguin, please explain why I, as a townie, would lie about my meta read on you?

Absolutely not. You aren't playing ball, so why should I? Prove your scum read - beyond just stating - then I will defend myself.

I am attempting to do so by asking you questions. I'll try again.

Why would I, as a townie, lie about a meta read on you?

[PenguinPower]

How is this, as scum, similar to my scum game?

[PenguinPower]

^
This is me, also, trying again.

[nn30]

First of all, my one line in 1971 about you is not a case.

Second of all, the meta read I had on you was weak.

As scum you play aggressively as you've done this game and are doing right now.

What's not weak is that you're calling me a liar about my meta read.

I'm trying to figure out exactly why a townie would call me a liar for stating my reasons for reading you.

I'm going to need you to answer my question now.

[implosion]

Yep. Scum.

Town would be attempting to work with me and get me on their side. Because. Ya know. We need to work together to find scum.

Scum would be attempting to work with you and get on your side. Because. Ya know. They need to not die to win the game.

PP being acerbic isn't scummy. It's arguably (which I'd agree with) bad play, but it's not like it has a scum motivation that makes particularly much sense.

I still really think PP is town. LUV hasn't ever done anything particularly towny to me; I still just have a hard time reading him but I'm fine with him as a lynch (and happier with him than PP). The only thing that really gives me pause is that boring is voting him but associatives are bad etc.

Unvote
VOTE: LUV

No real thoughts on gamma's claim; we'll see what tomorrow brings. I do still suspect he's town, pretty strongly at this point (I think the reasons for me to think he's town pretty significantly outweigh the reasons to think he's scum).

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 2.18

Lynching

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lil Uzi Vert (4): boring, Prism, Gamma Emerald, implosion
Penguin Power (2): Zoronos, nn30
Zoronos (1): PenguinPower

Not Voting (4): Dierfire, Grendel, Lil Uzi Vert, Shadow_step

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-30 12:31:00)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can't read me, but wants to lynch me. Huh?

[Shadow_step]

@mod, what result will a cop get on a traitor?

[podoboq]

@mod, what result will a cop get on a traitor?

Quoting from the Traitor page on the Wiki: "(In Normal games, a Traitor) gives a 'guilty' result to Cops, an 'innocent' result to Gunsmiths, and a 'Traitor' result to Role Cops."

[boring]

Hm, Shadow seemed like he had more to say about Gamma's claim. Want to hear more from him.

Why am I being scum read again? Anyone actually buy the cases boring and Prism are presenting?

This post encapsulates what confirmed LUV as scum for me. His play since has just acted to further solidify the read. There's nothing to "buy", unless you're going to deny that this is your ISO.

Spoiler:

Yeah I honestly don't know what the hell happened the last 5 pages, just seems like poorly calculated move by Shadow regardless if he's telling the truth or not.

Yeah I'm actually in agreement with Shadow here, if you guys can show at least two to three examples of that happening in a mini, that would go a long way into putting this to bed for now. Since from my understanding, both Implosion and Snake are implying that the average player on this site would be to able to play optimally in such a setup.

VOTE: Shadow

If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

Jeeeez this is terrible. When did I say all my reads are based in Eager's interactions with them?

It seemed implied and either way, I never said that was my reason for voting for you.

Then what is the reason Sherlock?
Did you iso me? You think I'm scum and ccing eager under no pressure when I didn't need to ?

I think you're gambling scum who failed to plan out a distraction.

If this is true, what was he distracting from with the CC?

My best guesses are PP and GE - since they both had (small) wagons on them when Shadow CC'd.

But... that wasn't enough pressure to do much.

What are your thoughts? What was scum!Shadow's goal with CCing?

GE and PP. Their wagons were small but there were various players discussing the cases presented against both in great detail and length. There was pressure for both players to explain their actions and things they've said. It was understood that we would be lynching Gamma or Penguin today. Discussion was happening and it was discussion that would lead to finding scum regardless of how either flipped.

I'm not entirely sure what his goal is other than to remove suspicion from one of Gamma and Penguin, maybe potentially even both. Either that or he read Snake as being a potential threat and he's willing to gamble in order to get rid of him.

Shadow still reads the same to me but I'm willing to move my vote with enough convincing.

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Uhh... Please clarify what exactly you mean by these two sentences. I'm not getting it.

I'm saying that Shadow made it look like he intended to counterclaim Snake and that when he did counterclaim, it conveniently was at time where there were some serious discussion and debate going on about the wagons on Gamma and Penguin.

Maybe I've gone too far into the deep end due to the games I've been reading on here. I've seen scum attempt some crazy things and I'm always in the belief that anything is possible. So much that with the experience Snake seems to possess, I think he asked for a no lynch as sort of reaction test to see who would immediately jump on it to reveal who really is impatient and wants to end the day. Of course, he could have possibly been advocating for no a lynch and I can't rule that out in the slightest and just the thought alone doesn't sit well with me.

So intent

As for my popping in and out I'm not really sure what to say. I don't buy the case on boring and I was for Shadow over Snake as all of you know. I wanted to push Maria and Penguin more but we've long moved pass those ideas and/or wagons so I'm sort of left just here on the sidelines until we get some flips.

I didn't even hammer bud!

UNVOTE: Shadow
VOTE: Snake

Since I have time for ISO diving, I thought I'd dredge up these gems.

VOTE: LUV

Now, since we have plenty of time before EOD, I'd "luv" it if you could explain how/why you so drastically flipped script with your intent and hammer. From here, it looks like you magically went from suspecting Shadow (while agreeing that there couldn't be two ascetics) to deciding "yolo! I'm going to hammer the other guy". As far as I can tell, all that happened in between was your trip down the rabbit hole with Gamma.

Oh and by the way, I'll be playing from here on forward. Don't think I'll have enough time to do an entire reread of Day 1.

In other words, laying low hasn't been working for you, so you're gonna have to try to spin your way out of this.