Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

Nero Cain · Post Post #15 (isolation #0) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:03 pm

vote: AlpacaAlpaca

sheep me

Nero Cain · Post Post #18 (isolation #1) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:42 pm

SheepMeSheepMe

Nero Cain · Post Post #31 (isolation #2) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:33 pm

In post 27, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:VOTE: Karnos

Why did you feel the need to move your vote?

In post 28, cmitc1 wrote:hey everyone, I am ready to rek scum and have fun =)

then sheep me

Nero Cain · Post Post #33 (isolation #3) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:40 pm

I have a gut scumread on you and I wanted to see how you reacted under pressure.

Nero Cain · Post Post #34 (isolation #4) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:43 pm

also hate that avatar

Nero Cain · Post Post #36 (isolation #5) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:47 pm

I plan on lynching you

Nero Cain · Post Post #42 (isolation #6) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:43 pm

odds on Iron/Lowell being an AlpacaAlpaca buddy?

Nero Cain · Post Post #44 (isolation #7) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:59 pm

how do you know Alpaca will flip town?

Nero Cain · Post Post #47 (isolation #8) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:46 am

If you don't know my reason(s) how do you know its good or bad?

Nero Cain · Post Post #86 (isolation #9) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:31 pm

In post 70, Lowell wrote:If alp is town, either knighy or penguin (both?) is trying to pocket him.

and if he's scum?

In post 77, Knighty Knight wrote:You said your reason was a gut scum read, hating an avatar, and wanting to see how he reacted, so I know your reasons and I am just saying that there are better reasons to push someone off so early in the game.

Why is a gut scumread a bad reason to push someone on p2? What else do you think was push worthy?

Also lol @ you thinking that I was legit voting him b/c I disliked his avatar.

Nero Cain · Post Post #89 (isolation #10) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:36 pm

In post 49, karnos wrote:
In post 43, Knighty Knight wrote:Odds on you being a scum for pushing him so hard so early in the game for no legitimate reason other then you "having a gut scumread" which is a 50/50 true or false (basically a good way to justify an illegitimate reason).

TL;DR you don't really a good reason to push alpaca so hard
Challenge accepted.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

What does this mean?

Nero Cain · Post Post #92 (isolation #11) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:52 pm

In post 88, LmkGuy wrote:Man its Page 2. You should have at least 7 townreads, 3 scumreads and the other 3 null by this point (/s).

town

1. LmkGuy
3. Nero Cain
5. PenguinPower
10. cmitc1
12. Knighty Knight
13. Tracer

Null

2. Saru
4. karnos
7. malpascp

Scum

8. aronagrundy
6. ironstove/9. Lowell
11. AlpacaAlpaca

Am I doing it right?

Nero Cain · Post Post #93 (isolation #12) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:22 pm

So my gut scum read on Alpaca was b/c I felt like his #8 and #10 were a little glib and trollsy and I think that sometimes can come from scum. I also didn't like his vote on Karnos like at all. Meta wise, when he is town he seems to hunt more. I mean I know its early game and there's not much of anything but I mean...GUT! Also his reaction to getting waggoned was mostly just waving it off. If he was town wouldn't he be more paranoid of a growing wagon on him? His faux rage vote on me in 55 was also p funny.

In post 35, ironstove wrote:I plan to be a useless town this game, mafia feel free to kill me. I will also shamelessly prod dodge.

I'm hoping to die somewhere mid-game or sooner because my end-game is horrible.

What about the rest of you? Do you plan to be useful? If so, are you willing to follow me when I pop back in with a fabricated report on who is mafia?

I also did not like this post much. If he's town then this was unnecessary WIFOM. Part of me thinks that as scum he wouldn't say something that paints a big ole' target on him but the timming of this was also strange FMPOV. This is about the time that the Alpaca wagon started to get

somewhat

serious and I had felt that his vote switch to Karnos was so he could bandwagon someone that was not him.

He also later says this.

In post 73, ironstove wrote:Penguin nervously unvoting because he doesn't want to see his partner
who is a mafia PR
getting lynched.

Which is exactly what I felt that Stove could be trying to distract from the Alpaca wagon.

Nero Cain · Post Post #94 (isolation #13) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:23 pm

Like if Alpaca ever flips mafia pr this is prob a slip.

Nero Cain · Post Post #106 (isolation #14) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:54 pm

In post 95, Tracer wrote:I have so many people I want to vote right now.
I'm sad that I only have one vote to play with.

Who are they and why?

Nero Cain · Post Post #107 (isolation #15) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:56 pm

In post 104, PenguinPower wrote:Lulz. Dude started the wagon and followed it with he hated the avatar. You're so serious.

:/

I thought it was fairly obvious that my dislike of his avatar was an obvious joke but I can understand that tone is hard to get in text. Still I explained my gut read in 93 so why did you ignore that post?

Nero Cain · Post Post #111 (isolation #16) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:03 pm

then why did you say?

In post 102, PenguinPower wrote:Could you point out that legit scum read for me? I must have missed it.

like you are saying that you saw my 93 and knew it was the explanation for my gut scumread so I'm not sure why you'd ask this.

Nero Cain · Post Post #125 (isolation #17) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:11 pm

hey Iron, look at the numbers and tell me what they mean?

Nero Cain · Post Post #129 (isolation #18) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:15 pm

In post 126, ironstove wrote:The # are the order in the first post that the host put us in. WTF are you smoking.

You argument for me being scum is that I put myself as the second highest town read but you also knew that I just c&ped the player list wich perfectly explains why I'm after the first player on that list.

Nero Cain · Post Post #131 (isolation #19) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:17 pm

lurking in his PT

Nero Cain · Post Post #136 (isolation #20) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:22 pm

What about Iron and his violent reaction to my reads list?

Nero Cain · Post Post #144 (isolation #21) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:39 pm

In post 112, PenguinPower wrote:Um...I was obv referring to a legit scum read prior to my latest RVS vote for which he was calling me out on?

My vote on Alpaca came in #15. In your #102 you are acting like there was no legit scum reads. Then your #104 throws shade on my reasoning being legit. Yet you claim that you saw my 93 which is explaining why I was voting Alpaca as soon as #15...long before your RVS vote #76. What am I not understanding?

Nero Cain · Post Post #150 (isolation #22) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:49 pm

In post 113, LmkGuy wrote:Perfect... just to clarify though, thats an actual reads list right? I noticed you have cmitic1 on town. Any thoughts on my vote/posts about him?

eh, prob. Those are my early gut reads. I'm mostly basing it on Alpaca and/or Stove being scum though. I don't think your cmt case is really that strong or a better vote then Alpaca or Stove.

Nero Cain · Post Post #153 (isolation #23) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:54 pm

In post 146, PenguinPower wrote:and to which you allude to above your post 93 being your first serious case

but my 93 was explaining

WHY

I was voting Alpaca in #15 and continued to vote him. My problem is that you are claiming to have read #93 and not have understood that my vote on Alpaca wasn't a semi-serious vote prior to #93.

Nero Cain · Post Post #155 (isolation #24) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:13 pm

I've found scum before in RVS/early game

Nero Cain · Post Post #156 (isolation #25) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:19 pm

In post 128, ironstove wrote:Ok guys, I changed my mind

VOTE: aronagrundy

Scum partner detected

If you still think I'm scum why did you unvote me?

Nero Cain · Post Post #160 (isolation #26) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:18 pm

the only slight thing bout cmt is that I could maybe kinda see scum wanting to discuss townreads so they can NK whomever is town read the most but meh...

but I don't really like you shitting on the thread. The last 2 pages have been productive so I'm not sure why you are posting this.

In post 132, LmkGuy wrote:Ok guys relax, this is not scum hunting, this is almost back to RVS

In post 135, LmkGuy wrote:Or any better alternatives with actual reasons?

In post 157, LmkGuy wrote:reading this thread sounds like a bunch of twelve year old arguing . I'm struggling to work out which posts are real and which are jokes.

Nero Cain · Post Post #161 (isolation #27) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:19 pm

In post 159, ironstove wrote:This guy still seriously thinks that alpaca is a good lynch.

What has Alpalca done that's so townie that I should move on and let him coast?

Nero Cain · Post Post #165 (isolation #28) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:27 pm

If you were willing enough to hammer him want made you ok with not letting him hang today? What information did we get off of his wagon?

Nero Cain · Post Post #167 (isolation #29) » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:47 pm

In post 166, ironstove wrote:
In post 165, Nero Cain wrote:If you were willing enough to hammer him want made you ok with not letting him hang today? What information did we get off of his wagon?
Dude, I was gonna hammer him but someone unvoted i.e. penguinpanic.

Are you asking me what information did I gather because you're scum trying to find out if my reads are correct and I should be the night kill, or because you gathered no information from that RVS because you're scum and already know everyone's alignment??????

no. I'm asking you to do things b/c you are posting hollow statements.

You threatened to hammer and penguin unvoted thus you could not hammer. ok got it. What about that makes Alpalca unlynchable today?

Nero Cain · Post Post #174 (isolation #30) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:04 am

knight can you explain your scum reads and the iron town read?

Nero Cain · Post Post #188 (isolation #31) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:09 am

In post 182, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:I am actually curious as well why you even put yourself on ur readlist let alone in second place. And copying and pasting isnt really a valid reason caseu you couldve copied and pasted yourself to first or not at all

none of the reads are in any order of strength, only numerical order. I know you guys are new but this is not something you and Stove should have trouble understanding.

Nero Cain · Post Post #191 (isolation #32) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:19 am

your scumreads are two lurkers and the biggest bandwagon that is not you. :/

Nero Cain · Post Post #254 (isolation #33) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:29 pm

In post 194, ironstove wrote:You really said I'm posting hollow statements as the guy who told everyone to sheep his vote on RVS then proceeds to continue tunneling someone for what reasons? A shitty avatar? I initially thought you surely have to either be shitty rxn testing me/alpaca but now I think you're being serious. Are you seriously asking me why Alpaca is not a good lynch? How about you explain to me why he's a good lynch?

^
is how I feel about that post.

Like lets take a look at what you've done. You threatened to hammer without any reason and then when PP unvotes you are like "oh well no reason we should lynch this now!" Like what? That doesn't even make a lick of sense.

My vote and continued pressure on Alpaca had nothing to do with an avatar.

In post 197, Saru wrote:Alpaca is either playing stupid or really is just stupid. Same goes for iron. One is probably scum though, in my experience. I'll let time tell which one it is.

If you think one of them is scum why are you not voting one of them?

Like how can anyone townread Iron at this point? That Whole "I'm going to hammer>>>>oh there's no reason for me to vote him now is just really scummy and whenever he's asked about it he gets defensive and dodges.

Nero Cain · Post Post #256 (isolation #34) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:37 pm

Knight, do you honestly think I was scumreading Alpaca over his avatar?

Nero Cain · Post Post #261 (isolation #35) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:45 pm

In post 113, LmkGuy wrote:
I can get behind this logic
, wont join you on that wagon yet, but I'll join you if the case develops further

Knight why do you town read this guy if you think my logic for voting for Alpaca is so silly.

Nero Cain · Post Post #267 (isolation #36) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:53 pm

I thought about that too but meh, I consider it pretty bad play and town really should never ever do it.

Nero Cain · Post Post #272 (isolation #37) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:58 pm

In post 259, Tracer wrote:I think Nero is town,
bee tee dubs
.

I'm just curious what the bolded is.

Nero Cain · Post Post #279 (isolation #38) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:41 pm

In post 104, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 103, aronagrundy wrote:
In post 33, Nero Cain wrote:I have a gut scumread on you and I wanted to see how you reacted under pressure.
Lulz. Dude started the wagon and followed it with he hated the avatar. You're so serious.

In post 194, ironstove wrote:continue tunneling someone for what reasons? A shitty avatar?

In post 251, Knighty Knight wrote:2. 47 forgets he already mentioned his poor reasons and trys to turn it on me

the only "reason" I mentioned here was that I, jokingly, scum read him for his avatar. Wich you apparently took it as serious. lol

and I think there is atleast one post where Alpaca whines about me scum reading for his avatar so yea, I'm not "pretending"

Nero Cain · Post Post #283 (isolation #39) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:00 pm

In post 282, LmkGuy wrote:Alright so looks like iron will actually make a lot of sense when he wants to

What is he saying that makes sense?

Nero Cain · Post Post #284 (isolation #40) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:08 pm

I feel like your scumread on me and town read on Iron are pretty reachy.

1. 31, 33, 34 In 31 "sheep me" is telling Cmitc (possible scum partner) to join him on the early game lynch so there are less townies to deal with later. In the others he just wants to get rid of Alpaca (sticking to RVS vote?)

I mean Alpaca's vote switch seemed pretty uneeded and his reasoning in 32 seems pretty fake. I mean you are basically calling Alpaca town here but there's no way that you know Alpaca is town unless you are scum. Isn't that what you are accusing me of? So you are scum by your own standards? Also the whole me getting Cmit to sheep me b/c we are buddies seems pretty silly. I also had Tracer sheep me so why am I scum with Cmti but not Tracer?

2. 47 forgets he already mentioned his poor reasons and trys to turn it on me

good thing I didn't. Gut reactions are like the only thing to push early game and even in the late game players still have gut reactions. Also two of your town reads have said the understood where I was coming from. While you don't

have

to agree with your town reads both Stove and LmkGuy have more experience than you unless you are an alt claiming that you are new. But if my gut read was unpush worthy what was push worthy?

3. 93 Trying to make it look like Iron is defending Alpaca in a scummy way even though he "gut voted" a serious train and was sticking with it like he knew Alpaca was an opposing alignment (what I mean by this is that Nero could be scum and Alpaca town or for some reason Nero knows that Alpaca is scum and he is town. Although idk how that would be possible).

How is this any different than you having scumreads on ppl that defended me/I defended them? Why do you think town would post something like that?

4. 111 Gut read shouldn't be a reason to push someone like you already know their alignment.

You know. Unless there's a mechanical guilty or a flatout scumclaim or something all pushes are essentially gut. There was also a ton more than just my gut reaction to his early posts. I didn't like his switch to Karnos for F all reason, he didn't seem like his town meta and lack of reaction to getting wagoned.

7. 166, 167 This would help the argument that Iron's play style is pushing for information. Also penguin unvoted and that makes it kind of hard to hammer if you still need one person...

This is prob the biggest problem. I don't really see Iron "pushing for information" or anything like that. I don't even know what that is...I think. You mean like a reaction test? I also think you are missing the point here. Yes he couldn't hammer b/c of PP's unvote but that doesn't explain why he's so against the wagon after offering lukewarm support. I mean your interpretation here is that he's doing things for information so he threatened to hammer to get a reaction out of players but I just don't really agree. His 166 is basically a dodge.

Nero Cain · Post Post #285 (isolation #41) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:19 pm

I think his play looks a little different

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000

and

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705

but I think I know what Tracer is getting at so I'd maybe be ok with letting him live a day or 2.

Nero Cain · Post Post #288 (isolation #42) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:05 pm

but you could say the same about Knight and Alpaca so why is hers scummier?

Nero Cain · Post Post #290 (isolation #43) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:17 pm

Nero Cain · Post Post #292 (isolation #44) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:25 pm

lol

I think you are Alpaca buddy and thats why you "threatened" to hammer and then when the wagon didn't look like it was going to go through you were all "WE SHOULDN'T BE VOTING THIS GUY!"

Nero Cain · Post Post #298 (isolation #45) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:30 pm

@knight

In post 285, Nero Cain wrote:I think his play looks a little different

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000

and

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705

^
town games. read em and compare them to his play here.

Nero Cain · Post Post #306 (isolation #46) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:55 pm

knight, why is my push on the Alpaca slot scummier than the sheep votes?

Nero Cain · Post Post #307 (isolation #47) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Agree with Lowell that LMK is scummy. Think

In post 113, LmkGuy wrote:I can get behind this logic, wont join you on that wagon yet, but I'll join you if the case develops further

could be possible buddy play. Ditto Stove willing to hammer him but is now against his wagon.

Nero Cain · Post Post #314 (isolation #48) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:20 pm

In post 312, PenguinPower wrote:Why would you vote an inactive slot?

There are a ton of folks voting Tracer, why are you signaling out Knight here?

Nero Cain · Post Post #315 (isolation #49) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:21 pm

knight where did you play mafia before? Can I have a few links?

Nero Cain · Post Post #318 (isolation #50) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:35 pm

Have your reads changed any?

Nero Cain · Post Post #321 (isolation #51) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:39 pm

so you've never played and you decide to skip the newbie queue for your first game. :/ I bet you are an alt though but I don't care that much.

Nero Cain · Post Post #332 (isolation #52) » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:34 am

vote:Karnos

Nero Cain · Post Post #346 (isolation #53) » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:43 pm

In post 323, Knighty Knight wrote:What even is the point of an alt account?

it hides peoples mains so they can play differently

Nero Cain · Post Post #362 (isolation #54) » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:38 am

In post 356, Thor665 wrote:What else is happening right now?

LMK is prob scum too

Nero Cain · Post Post #450 (isolation #55) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:47 pm

vote:LMKguy

Nero Cain · Post Post #489 (isolation #56) » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:55 pm

Why does anyone think Iron is town?

Nero Cain · Post Post #529 (isolation #57) » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:48 am

In post 515, Saru wrote:Nero hasn't done much as of late, so I'd like to see more from him.

I've been p lazy lately and I'm just honestly a little lost. Like for awhile there I was thinking that scum were in the low posters like Mal and LMK and Karnos (though he's gotten more active since he needed to defend himself.)

I can dig the case on Knight I was just getting awkward town vibes from him earlier.

Nero Cain · Post Post #530 (isolation #58) » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:50 am

I genuinely believe the Tracer wagon was a bunch of wank so I'm betting there is scum there prob Iron.

Nero Cain · Post Post #560 (isolation #59) » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:17 am

If Knight is scum then I think Stove has to be a buddy. IMO Stove's play is different then his other town games. I asked Knight his opinion on this and he ignored me. Buddy play?

Nero Cain · Post Post #587 (isolation #60) » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:57 pm

In post 564, ironstove wrote:How is it different? Specifics.

I'm seeing bravado and (fake?) confidence. Your tone is different.

Nero Cain · Post Post #588 (isolation #61) » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:02 pm

consider my vote on the knight slot.

Nero Cain · Post Post #612 (isolation #62) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:19 am

vote: Fire Assassin

Nero Cain · Post Post #613 (isolation #63) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:24 am

In post 608, karnos wrote:VOTE: Fire Assassin

Please claim, offer reads on slots other than your own.

Town: it's a scum claim to quick hammer, don't do it.

In post 285, Nero Cain wrote:I think his play looks a little different

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000

and

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705

but I think I know what Tracer is getting at so I'd maybe be ok with letting him live a day or 2
.

Nero Cain · Post Post #621 (isolation #64) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:32 am

vote:Stove

In post 618, Fire Assassin wrote: I need to go more into the game though since I have zero scumreads.

sheep me

Nero Cain · Post Post #626 (isolation #65) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:44 am

and Mal posting everywhere but here is prob scum.

Nero Cain · Post Post #635 (isolation #66) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:24 am

Karnos, what did you think of Tracer?

Nero Cain · Post Post #665 (isolation #67) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:07 pm

So he was town in this 1800 game right?

Nero Cain · Post Post #689 (isolation #68) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:10 am

So scum is voting Thor. Does this mean Saru is a scumbuddy or he's voting off the wagon to manipulate us onto the Saru wagon?

Nero Cain · Post Post #690 (isolation #69) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:14 am

vote:Mal

since we have a extension

Nero Cain · Post Post #702 (isolation #70) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:20 am

come bus your buddy iron

Nero Cain · Post Post #704 (isolation #71) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:09 pm

He's V/la but was active site wide for a few days before throwing down a naked vote.

Nero Cain · Post Post #705 (isolation #72) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:11 pm

What did Saru and Thor say/do that made you downgrade your read?

Nero Cain · Post Post #708 (isolation #73) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:19 pm

Nero Cain · Post Post #709 (isolation #74) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:19 pm

In post 705, Nero Cain wrote:What did Saru and Thor say/do that made you downgrade your read?

Nero Cain · Post Post #742 (isolation #75) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:53 am

In post 737, karnos wrote:
In post 690, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:Mal

since we have a extension
Why does having an extension make you want to vote a V/LA lurker?

he's a scummy lurker and with the extension we have time to get r done

Nero Cain · Post Post #743 (isolation #76) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:57 am

Investigate: pp/lmk/iron/karnos
Protect: thor
Roleblock: pp/lmk/iron/karnos
Kill: pp/lmk/iron/karnos

Nero Cain · Post Post #772 (isolation #77) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:38 am

I think Mall prob flips scum here. I tend to think that his buddies are in LMK, PP and Stove.

Nero Cain · Post Post #792 (isolation #78) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:02 am

Iron why did you make a big song and dance about wanting Mal to come back and post here and then immediately voted him?

Nero Cain · Post Post #793 (isolation #79) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:04 am

I have a tinfoil theory. Would anyone like to hear it?

Nero Cain · Post Post #796 (isolation #80) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:46 am

In post 794, ironstove wrote:Go ahead, I love hearing conspiracy theories.

Alpaca, you, and LMK are scum. Alpaca gets ran up in RVS, you lulzy threaten to hammer him and LMK says that he wouldn't be against an Alpaca wagon but doesn't vote him.

Fire, I believe it's time to claim your role.

stop role fishing

Nero Cain · Post Post #802 (isolation #81) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:36 am

I haven't been scum hunting LAWL

How have my reads lists made no sense?

I don't think FA needs to full claim, why do you think that?

Nero Cain · Post Post #804 (isolation #82) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:00 am

If I'm scum why aren't you voting me?

Nero Cain · Post Post #808 (isolation #83) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:09 am

cute.

Nero Cain · Post Post #860 (isolation #84) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:18 am

Can I get bullet cases on Saru and Karnos?

Nero Cain · Post Post #871 (isolation #85) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:48 am

In post 862, Lowell wrote:@Nero, the case on saru is that we nearly lynched him yesterday as a compromise candidate, only to have a new wagon form out of nowhere on a complete lurker at the last minute.

but it was me that started the Mal wagon and I am 100% not scum. Was I being sheeped by scum? Prob. Who, if any, were the scum sheeping me?

Nero Cain · Post Post #872 (isolation #86) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:02 am

I mean coming into today my plan was to vote Grey since I thought that the Mal town flip meant that scum were likely the ones that were against the Mal wagon and then voted him i.e, Grey and Stove.

BUT STOVE IS ALIVE AND YOU HAVEN'T VOTED HIM YET!

When I saw that Grey died it made me pause just a tad and I wanted to see how things went a little bit. If I have to choose between Karnos/Saru I'm going to go with Karnos since the Saru case seems like wank.

Nero Cain · Post Post #895 (isolation #87) » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:57 am

In post 877, ironstove wrote:First of all, that mal wagon was last second so I chose to lynch him rather than have a no lynch, so please don't try to frame the votes like there was 5 months left of time and me and grey suddenly blitz'd the votes to hammer because that was not how it happened. The entire D1 I was pushing different people and never went for mal, and the case built on mal was weak + he wasn't even around to defend himself, so if anyone should be scum read it's you for targeting an easy town lynch like mal.

I think there was at least a day or so left for the deadline time but I can't be for certain. In your vote you even noted that he was on the site 30 minutes before so it sounded to me like he was semi-around. But humor me here and put yourself in my shoes. You are town, you just lead a wagon on a lurksack that flipped town. Is the wagon all town? Why? If not who should I think is scum on the wagon?

Nero Cain · Post Post #908 (isolation #88) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:43 am

no unless you want to buy into the theory that he's an Alpaca buddy b/c he kinda lightheartedly embraced it and left himself some leeway to bus if needed.

Nero Cain · Post Post #918 (isolation #89) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:02 am

In post 915, Thor665 wrote:Oh, and I'm bussing my buddy Nero, apparently.
Whoo-hoo.

Since when did you scumread me?

Nero Cain · Post Post #919 (isolation #90) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:24 am

In post 909, Thor665 wrote:Is there a good argument for Alpacas scum?

not really. You can read about why I was voting him d1 in my 93. He a lurksack and just

there.

Hie says he's busy with midterms and ok sure. Do you think if Alpaca is scum his scumbuddies would fight against his wagon or lend support?

Nero Cain · Post Post #931 (isolation #91) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:13 am

In post 927, ironstove wrote:This game is a joke.

so is your play

Nero Cain · Post Post #934 (isolation #92) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:01 am

So I didn't buy the Tracer wagon. big deal. It seemed like the Tracer wagon was solely about him being inactive. What did he do that was "OMG SO SCUMMY!" that I should have seen?

Meanwhile, Mal was being a lurksack

WHILE

posting it up elsewhere. Yes it flipped town. Who should I have suspected as shepping scum?

Nero Cain · Post Post #938 (isolation #93) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:18 am

Why should I answer your questions when you avoid mine like the plague?

As far as I know the Tracer wagon was "he's not posting alot so this has to be scum!" There was also a "this is scum replacing out!". It doesn't seem like a very good case to me so I didn't vote it. And all I've seen so far is "vote Thor, thor is scum!" add nauseam.

I didn't really like Alpacas early game and I'm wary that your slot and LMK's slot were lukewarmly bussing.

Nero Cain · Post Post #939 (isolation #94) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:19 am

Thor flips town, who is scum?

Nero Cain · Post Post #941 (isolation #95) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:52 am

TBF, I

was

entertaining the idea that him and Grey were scum that were hesitant to vote Mal at first but then chose to take the free mislynch.

Who do you think I should think were the scum sheeping me on Mal?

Nero Cain · Post Post #978 (isolation #96) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:57 am

iron could be scum or just poor town. IDK. Hype for Alpaca replacement!

Nero Cain · Post Post #998 (isolation #97) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:49 pm

bji, who should we have lynched d1 and why?

Nero Cain · Post Post #1001 (isolation #98) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:58 pm

In post 976, Thor665 wrote:He clearly can't/won't debate logic,

Nero Cain · Post Post #1009 (isolation #99) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:17 pm

I've asked you multiple questions all of which you've ignored. Mafia is very much a team game, if you are town it is not a help to the town to ignore questions so others can better understand your position.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:50 am

pp what did Iron say that you liked so much that you unvoted?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:49 am

I started a reply to this but I'm second guessing myself and would like to see you talk about the mislynch wagon first.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:37 am

Iron has already stated that he voted Mal to avoid a no lynch. The only odd thing here is that he voted so quickly after denouncing the wagon and I've already asked him about it and he has ignored my question, just like all the other ones I've asked him.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:24 pm

In post 1032, bji wrote:But why is Nero Cain pushing for a wagon on Mal if he believes that ironstove is scum?

Why should I have stopped voting one scum read just b/c a another hoped on?

In post 1032, bji wrote:I will trust that his reasoning really was policy lynch

His vote was clearly not a policy lynch.

In post 777, GreyICE wrote:Oh holy shit though.

I looked at mal's recent posts. Whatever you can be town.
This is fake VLA shit.

Vote: mal

Jesus. Don't claim, just die.
Fucking fake VLAers.

This doesn't just make you scum,
it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL. Welcome to the hell of "I will expect you to post content at all times in all games I am a part of regardless of VLA status."

Like I assume that you are taking the italics out of context but he's clearly saying he was scum that was breaking site rules. This is not something he'd say as a PL.

this is also your second misrep.

In post 990, bji wrote:the idea of lynching a lurker on Day 1 because "he
appears
to be active elsewhere on the site" is utterly ridiculous.

there was no appears, he was 100% posting elsewhere while generally ignoring this game. Even your top town read (iron) noted this.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:34 pm

In post 1032, bji wrote:If Nero Cain were scum, I don't know why he would lead a wagon away from town PR Fire Assassin, I'd only see him doing that if FA was his scum buddy, and I really don't believe that FA is scum

In post 1032, bji wrote:Nero's post immediately after that claims that "Mal prob filps scum here. I tend to think that his buddies are in LMK, PP, and Stove." If Nero is scum he would have known that Mal is town, so he'd be weakening his own case against Ironstove by this post, suggesting he'd rather target LMK or PP for the next mislynch in day 2.

yet I'm his *second biggest scumread?

I'm getting the vauge feeling that he's buddying Iron.

*Depending on his Aron read

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:47 pm

I sorta feel like scum is BJ, PP and LMK.

I mean, on a meta skim this really doesn't look like town Iron and his constand avoidence of my questions is anti-town and carries some potential scum motivation but BJ's and PP's constant buddying on him are making me lean town.

I never really bought into the Tracers case and I don't understand why

ANYONE

considers a "Tracer is lurking so it must be scum!" as a good case.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:57 pm

In post 1048, bji wrote:Because I don't think you ever credibly established that Mal was scum, so I wouldn't characterize your actions that way.

it is really really really easy to pooh-pooh a mislynch wagon in hindsight. I think it was pretty clear that I had a scumread on him, you even post several of my posts that clearly state that I'm scumreading the Mal slot so I'm not understandng how you can say that I didn't "credibly establish" that. If you calling the reason for the vote into question then we run back into how easy it is to pooh-pooh in hindsight.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:01 pm

@PP That wasn't the right word. I mean I do think BJ is buddyng him but for you I kinda of hate

In post 1002, PenguinPower wrote:Then lynch that. If he's scum, good lynch. If he's town, he hurts town. Lynch it. Seriously, dude got me a scum win based off a rage vote. If he's not going to play - and not going to be replaced - lynch it.

like its really goading me into trying to lynch Iron regardless of alignment.

but you can help me remove doubt by voting for scum.

vote:BJ

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:06 pm

ok what was the point of your 1002?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:06 pm

In post 1060, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 1059, Nero Cain wrote:ok what was the point of your 1002?
It's like you don't read anything that I've said...

Sometimes I need things spelled out to me. Like I know you were voting Iron b/c you were scumreading him at the time so yes your 1002 was you wanting me to vote him so I'm not understanding why you were against my categorizing that your 1002 was trying to get me to vote him unless you are objecting solely to suggestion that you could do that as scum.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:12 pm

fine I'll reread

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:20 pm

yeah...I'm not really seeing any sort of explanation. There's 1008 but that doesn't really sound right. But this whole exchange is weird and I'm not really sure why you are being vague and annoyed.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:23 pm

I don't think policy lynch means what you think it means

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:28 pm

See? If you just used your words alot of this back and forth would have been uneeded.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:37 am

In post 1071, bji wrote:I do not understand why Mal lurking is scummy but Tracer lurking is not. Is the difference to you the fact that some kind of site info indicated that Mal was playing other games but not this one, but the same source of data showed that Tracer was not playing other games? That's weak sauce if so. Did you consider that Tracer could have an alt and be playing other games constantly here while ignoring this game too? And did you really think that this is the behavior that scum would use - blatant and obviously fact-checkable lurking? Attributing the dumbest possible play to someone so that you can lynch them doesn't sound like good town strategy to me.

So I (and the others, I was far from the only one to notice that Mal was posting elsewhere) and should have gone "oh hey, Tracer

could

be playing on an alt. This is something we should consider and not lynch a lazy slot that should have been mature enough to replace out while they coast through the game

BUT

we shouldn't even consider this." PBBBT!

As an example, this game had a player that flipped scum while constantly posting elsewhere.

but its just one example!

There are more but I don't feel like slogging through my past games to find them. Its a somewhat common scumtell.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:49 am

In post 1071, bji wrote: 3. None of the reasoning that karnos or GreyICE used to try to deter the wagon had any effect on your vote

nope. Grey didn't even find his own reasoning that strong noticed how he accuses Mal of using a fake V/LA. Though you are just going to attempt to write that off as some policy lynch.

5. Your only other consistent scumread, ironstove, joined the Mal wagon, but you made no comment about it

Why should I not consider he was bussing or that I was wrong?

"Waah Nero lynched town that he thought was playing like scum." That's p much how I feel about what you are doing.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:23 am

lol no one called it a policy lynch.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:40 am

In post 1092, ironstove wrote:I'd rather lynch nero this game,

lynching town is stupid.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:13 am

Given that your case against me is "I don't agree with his reads" I'd argue that it is niether a case of town or great minds think alike.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:00 am

In post 1097, karnos wrote:Did you just claim you aren't town? LOL.

How can you think that without voting me? So fake

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:06 am

What do you think of BJ?

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:37 pm

Why does Bj look like scum?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:22 am

So FA why aren't you voting BJ?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:57 am

What town motivation do you see in him coming in and pooh-poohing the day 1 mislynch and then trying to write said lynch off as a policy lynch when most players were not PLing him?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:00 am

I also feel like he's using mental gymnastics to reach the same conclusions as Iron i.e. Thor and I as his top scum reads.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:34 am

how do you know BJ is town?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:24 am

In post 1130, bji wrote:which also involved outright misrepresentations of other players' reasons for being on that wagon, which I elaborated on in post 1089.

If you think that misreps are scummy then you should be self voting 'cause like your claim that Grey was accusing town of abusing site features is fucking laughable. Whats also laughable is the idea that we (mostly I) should have ignored Mal posting it up elsewhere while ignoring this game b/c Tracer could have had an alt (or a main) that was posting elsewhere. He's also flat out ignoring the idea that scum could have, and likely did, avoid and/or cast doubt on said wagon b/c they knew it would flip town, so he's pretty likely scum that has at least 1 buddy that avoided (LMK) or threw doubt on the wagon before joining. (Karnos, Iron)

We should be lynching one of these 4 today.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:15 am

In post 1135, ironstove wrote:
In post 1132, Nero Cain wrote:how do you know BJ is town?
I agree with everything he's said so I find it scummy that people are trying to Lynch him when I have a town read on him

What has he said that you didn't say first?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 am

In post 1134, bji wrote:
Spoiler: Is it a wall?
In post 1133, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1130, bji wrote:which also involved outright misrepresentations of other players' reasons for being on that wagon, which I elaborated on in post 1089.
If you think that misreps are scummy then you should be self voting 'cause like your claim that Grey was accusing town of abusing site features is fucking laughable.

In post 777, GreyICE wrote:Oh holy shit though.

I looked at mal's recent posts. Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.

Vote: mal

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL. Welcome to the hell of "I will expect you to post content at all times in all games I am a part of regardless of VLA status."
This post 100% says that GreyICE was accusing Mal of abusing site features. It doesn't say that GreyICE was accusing TOWN of abusing site features, although it's interesting that you talk about Mal as if he could have been known to be town before flipping.

GreyICE wrote:Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.
Translation: you could be town, but in any case I think you're faking your V/LA status.

EXPLICITLY noting that even town could fake V/A status.

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL.
Doesn't even want a claim. Just wants Mal dead because of an apparent serious anger about the V/LA faking. I don't read "this doesn't just make you scum" as GreyICE actually having a strong scum read on Mal. I read this as GreyICE saying that IF Mal is scum, THEN faking V/LA as scum makes him garbage who abuses site rules.

Whats also laughable is the idea that we (mostly I) should have ignored Mal posting it up elsewhere while ignoring this game b/c Tracer could have had an alt (or a main) that was posting elsewhere.
Laugh all you want, you should have ignored it. You had NO IDEA if Mal was intentionally ignoring this game. The rationale was completely flawed. I don't think that everyone who succumbed to this rationale was scum, obviously they couldn't be, there were 7 people on that wagon, but I do think that some of them were. And I think that those that DROVE the wagon are more culpable. You who explicitly stated that Mal was scum contributed a driving force to the wagon, not to mention starting it.

He's also flat out ignoring the idea that scum could have, and likely did, avoid and/or cast doubt on said wagon b/c they knew it would flip town, so he's pretty likely scum that has at least 1 buddy that avoided (LMK) or threw doubt on the wagon before joining. (Karnos, Iron)
I am not ignoring that idea; if I thought that no scum avoided the wagon then I'd be saying that all the scum were definitely on that wagon, which I never said. I said that at least ONE scum is likely on that wagon, and I have a three most likely candidates.

Before I even comment on this I wanted to ask you something. You are putting things in spoiler b/c PP fussed at you for walling right?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:17 am

that's actually kinda scummy. Like placating him.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:44 am

In post 1142, bji wrote:Nero trying to play the role of clueless town?

Whats clueless about me accusing you of scum that's trying to bending over backwards to please PP?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:57 am

Why do you townread BJ?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:59 am

So you are a Aronagrundy alt? That site is a modkillable and banable offense.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:02 pm

Considering you ignored all my earlier questions at you I assume you'll just do the same thing here. I mean you are lying that I never mentioned reasons why I had a scum read on you but I could easily see that from both alignments.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:12 pm

yes no kinda. Like scumBJ riding your jockstrap makes me want to think you are town. Part of me thinks that he could do that with you as scum to throw us all off but then I also think its extremely likely that he has at least 1 buddy if not both in Karnos/LMK.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:20 pm

but then Alpaca getting ran up and you lulzy threatening to hammer makes some sense as buddy play. So maybe it is just as simple as a BJ/Iron/LMK team.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:20 pm

Lmk is being replaced but no one wants to replace into a scum slot.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:50 pm

Anyways...

You had NO IDEA if Mal was intentionally ignoring this game.

That's true. I, like 99.9% of the worlds population, am unable to read minds. However, when I see a player that has been posting all over the site and his only recent "content" is a naked vote on a popular wagon it sure as hell looks like he was avoiding this game and as someone that's looking to find scum that type of inconsistency shouldn't be ignored. I feel like if you were town you'd question his sincerity too.

In post 1134, bji wrote:And I think that those that DROVE the wagon are more culpable

You know the last person that accused me of being scum that drove a wagon was scum themselves.

The point was that I have a hard time seeing Grey accuse Mal of faking V/LA b/c why the fuck would town

EVER

do that?

So I had assumed

In post 777, GreyICE wrote:Whatever you can be town.

was a typo.

In post 777, GreyICE wrote:This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL.

In post 1134, bji wrote:I read this as GreyICE saying that IF Mal is scum, THEN faking V/LA as scum makes him garbage who abuses site rules.

Like this is some grade A creative reading. Grey is deff calling him scum here but BJ is "reading in" to make it sound like Grey wasn't scum reading him to keep up the false narrative that he was a PL.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:57 pm

its in my last post but nice use of not reading to pad your post count.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:59 pm

In post 1160, ironstove wrote:That basically was a PL from grey, he said 'I don't care if you're town I'm voting you for how scummy your activity makes you appear'

So Grey can think he was scummy looking but I can't think that? lol You guys are so scum.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:01 pm

Like even if you guys convince this lurk town to lynch me today you guys are still getting power lynched after I flip town.

Nero Cain · Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:42 pm

I woke up this morning and my throat was sore and I wasn't worried about it but by the time I got back from lunch I had felt even worse. So I've just been resting today. I don't think/hope I'm not coming down with anything but I just wanted to let ppl know whats going on.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:20 am

ugh....

I never put much stock into the Tracer lynch and the Thor lynch just seems to be a hold over of that. Part of me wants to hammer b/c I agree that no lynch's are usually p dumb and his initial refusal to claim was p bad but part of me doesn't think it'll be a scum flip. I'll decide in a few mins.

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:52 am

Bj can be town I guess. Not going to put Thor in hammer range yet.

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:11 pm

vote:thor

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:18 pm

In post 1355, bji wrote:Seems like any discussion beyond that is only in scum's interest as it gives them more info for their NK, and anything we say today beyond Thor's lynch can wait until tomorrow can't it?

well unless something happens to the nk we lose a townie so isn't that reason enough to not lynch Thor right off?

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:29 pm

TBH Thor I see very little reason why we shouldn't lynch you today. Convince me.

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:06 pm

@Karnos why did you feel we needed to end the day?

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:20 am

Why couldn't I just be town and wrong?

vote:Karnos

his hammer to end the day and cut off discussion was scum motivated.

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:23 am

If we have 8 players left it won't be LYLO until 4 other town have died unless this is one of those funky setups with 3 scum and a sk but there hasn't been any second shot so I'm not really getting your math.

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:36 am

I know what he said but its dumb as shit. Do you think ANYONE was really going to but two town trackers in a mini?

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:38 am

In post 1383, Foxbird wrote:Thor665 (6) - MathBlade, aronagrundy, PenguinPower, Saru, bji, karnos (LYNCH!)

like do you really think scum would pass up the opportunity to hard bus and get town cred here?

There's scum within PP, Saru, BJ and Karnos.

If I were to guess it would be PP and Karnos.

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:44 am

In post 1459, MathBlade wrote:You might just be scum ironstone.

Wow that post was horrible. Nero is obvtown.

So you think his "tomorrow is MYLO" is a slip that he knows I'll flip town.

Scum bussing right out of the gate is a thing too. So yeah...maybe its just Karnos + Iron.

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:52 am

I can dig a Iron + Karnos team

Nero Cain · Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:02 am

Why couldn't you bus Thor?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:54 pm

What is your case on me besides "didn't vote Thor"?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:24 pm

Why did you feel the need to answer for Iron?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:33 pm

like there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between Tracer flaking out and Mal being active elsewhere.

BUT TRACER FLIPPED SCUM!

yea, I know. And he was prob being bussed by atleast one of Karnos/Iron.

I mean you have argued (and Iron) that I'm scummy for pushing Mal but as I have shown I've lynched scum for this exact same reason so why is it scummy that I'd think Mal could be scum for the exact same reason?

Why do you think Karnos couldn't have known Mal was town, thus making him scum?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:33 pm

I think his "anger" is fake as shit

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:40 pm

I'm prob a little demoralized that Thor was scum but mostly I haven't been on much this day phase and I'm already voting who I think scum is.

Are you scum reading PP?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:54 pm

like for someone that's fussing at me for "not reading the game" isn't it disingenuous that you didn't know I was voting?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:04 pm

In post 1085, Nero Cain wrote: As an example, this game had a player that flipped scum while constantly posting elsewhere.

but its just one example!

There are more but I don't feel like slogging through my past games to find them. Its a somewhat common scumtell.

This is me showing where I have successfully flipped scum using the "there are posting elsewhere but ignoring this game" tell

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60340
^
that too. It was Ika

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:05 pm

In post 1704, Nero Cain wrote:Why do you think Karnos couldn't have known Mal was town?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:09 pm

If you think PP is scum why were you up in arms about my assertion that scum would and could bus Thor?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:10 pm

In post 1711, Nero Cain wrote:This is me showing where I have successfully flipped scum using the "there are posting elsewhere but ignoring this game" tell

this is a lie. I didn't flip them but they were still scum that was posting it up elsewhere while ignoring that game.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:12 pm

In post 1709, bji wrote:I'm curious to know what you think of iron's claim. Don't you want to know what his actual role is? You haven't expressed any interest.

I'm ok with him claiming though I'm p sure that was a fake venge kill claim.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:16 pm

In post 1716, bji wrote:Huh? Are you quoting yourself and admitting you lied?

I'm saying that I misspoke. He didn't get flipped but was still scum.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:19 pm

In post 1717, bji wrote:
In post 1715, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1709, bji wrote:I'm curious to know what you think of iron's claim. Don't you want to know what his actual role is? You haven't expressed any interest.
I'm ok with him claiming though I'm p sure that was a fake venge kill claim.
Why do you think iron would fake a venge kill claim? Why do you think he would fake any claim?

He's scum that thought he'd claim a role that could maybe explain why he's not dead. He's derp town that is doing a useless fakeclaim since thats in vouge these days. IDK. Remind me what you think he claimed.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:24 pm

In post 1716, bji wrote:
In post 1711, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1085, Nero Cain wrote: As an example, this game had a player that flipped scum while constantly posting elsewhere.

but its just one example!

There are more but I don't feel like slogging through my past games to find them. Its a somewhat common scumtell.
This is me showing where I have successfully flipped scum using the "there are posting elsewhere but ignoring this game" tell

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60340
^
that too. It was Ika
How can I be sure that you haven't been in 100 other games where you mislynched 100 town players for the same dumb reason? How can I be sure you didn't just cherrypick the one or two cases to present here where you got lucky and caught scum instead?

If I'm supposed to be evaluating whether or not you are likely to have believed that going after someone for possible V/LA abuse is a strategy that you had seen work more often than not, then unless I can verifiably know how often you have seen it work, I cannot even make that evaluation. And I cannot verifably know how often you have seen it work versus not work.

This is why I don't read external games. It is a useless exercise.

I probably have lynched town for this, does it matter? The point is there's possible scum motivation in ignoring a certain game. So explain to me what the town motivation is?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:25 pm

In post 1713, Nero Cain wrote:If you think PP is scum why were you up in arms about my assertion that scum would and could bus Thor?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:26 pm

In post 1712, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1704, Nero Cain wrote:Why do you think Karnos couldn't have known Mal was town?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:43 pm

There was no reason for Fire to claim. Why do you think he should have claimed?

There's a bit of a difference in Fire getting ran up and claiming a PR and Iron claiming unprompted for what reason I don't know. Don'tcha think?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:47 pm

How do you know its cherry picked if you haven't and aren't going to read my previous games?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:51 pm

but I just told you, they are different situations and shouldn't be treated the same. Like there was F all reason for Fire to claim what PR he was. I am ok with Iron full claiming b/c I don't necessarily see the point in claiming unprompted like he did and we can see if his claim lines up with normal guidelines.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:55 pm

In post 1729, bji wrote:
In post 1721, Nero Cain wrote: I probably have lynched town for this, does it matter? The point is there's possible scum motivation in ignoring a certain game. So explain to me what the town motivation is?
Um, you
definitely
have lynched town for this,
in this game
and yes, it does matter. Part of your defense of having started that wagon is to refer to external games where, if one read them presumably, one would see that in that game a player who flipped scum and had engaged in V/LA shenanigans. But that defense only makes sense if it can be used to demonstrate that you could reasonably believed that it was
more likely
that a player who engages in V/LA shenanigans is scum than town. And since your history with players engaging in V/LA shenanigans cannot be reliably identified, this defense cannot be expected to hold any weight with anyone.

My "town motivation" for not trusting your cherrypicked "evidence" blindly is that I want to use good sound reasoning in my scumhunting.

And why can't my beliefs carry over?

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:15 pm

In post 1724, bji wrote:Second, even if I think that PP is scum, I am not going to just latch onto any supporting reason no matter how ridiculous it is. I am not trying to lynch scum for bad reasons, I am trying to lynch them for good reasons, and if a reason isn't good, I'm not going to agree with it, even if it supports my scum read.

If you think a slot is scum then everything they are doing in the game is done with a scum mindset. Its not impossible to do "pro-town" things as scum but I think its kinda cognitive dissonance to assume PP is scum that jumped on the Thor wagon and also think that scum wouldn't do it.

Nero Cain · Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:18 pm

In your last town game you were reading players as scummy for lurking, including BBT, who was scum. Can you explain to me how my belief that Mal was lurker scum is not a town mindset when you've gone after lurkers yourself as town?

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:49 am

The only players that know everyone's alignment is mafia. Nice opportunistic vote hop.

Nero Cain · Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:25 am

BJ, do you think "cherry picking" is scummy?

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:43 am

PP's "case" that requires Karnos to be town and Saru to be scum is silly by itself but if he actually believed that he'd be voting Karnos.

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:51 am

In post 1841, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 1840, Nero Cain wrote:PP's "case" that requires Karnos to be town and Saru to be scum is silly by itself but if he actually believed that he'd be voting Karnos.
Why?

So my town flip means Karnos is scum?

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:58 am

In post 1842, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1840, Nero Cain wrote:PP's "case" that requires Karnos to be town and Saru to be scum is silly by itself but if he actually believed that he'd be voting Karnos.
You mean Saru right? Doubtful PP would vote his townread.

Karnos only become a town read when I flipped scum, wich I haven't and I won't, so I think its really weird how he just started to town read Karnos. I think it's likely a PP/Karnos team and that's the real reason he isn't voting him.

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:08 am

Like there was absolutely no reason for Karnos to hammer Thor and cut off discussion like that. I think it was BJ that said something along the lines of "but we are able to buddy hunt today!" but its still dumb as we were guaranteed to lose at least one townie over the night and reduce the town brain power.

Karnos response that he was worried that town wouldn't lynch Thor doesn't mesh with reality.

NO ONE

was going to buy there being two town trackers in a mini. It was deff a bus.

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:13 am

I mean its not like I've changed my read on Karnos but explain what you think the town motivation was for PP to flip on me like that? The scum motivation?

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:19 am

In post 1739, karnos wrote:Nero is defending himself and Penguin as expected, they are probably the last two scum.

like look at him pushing a Nero-PP team and yet I wasn't "defending" PP at all. He's feeding town a half truth here and is accusing me of defending PP here since he thinks that if he accuses us of being scum then I'll get wary and think PP is town.

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:25 am

vote:PP

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:36 am

In post 1380, karnos wrote:
In post 1378, Nero Cain wrote:@Karnos why did you feel we needed to end the day?
are you kidding? been trying to lynch this scum since day one.
not going to slowplay it and risk someone getting cold feet
.

this is scum. INB4 Math doesn't die tonight b/c she won't lynch scum Karnos

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:19 am

Why does it matter who hammers you?

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:52 am

Think about this guys. PP has claimed that they can post in the neighborhood topic at anytime. When Thor was lynched scum lost day talk BUT if Arona added Karnos to the hood (like PP suggested) and they kill Arona then they regain day talk. Also PP was town reading Karnos last night but switches on him for ???? Like there's plenty of potential scum motivation for scum to bus/distance from each other both in the early game and the late game. Other than not buying into the Tracer case Thor was pushing Karnos and Karnos was pushing Thor wich explains why I didn't really thing Thor was scum b/c I didn't think that bussing.

Nero
Math
Lowell
BJ
Iron
Karnos/PP

Nero Cain · Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:53 am

In post 1866, Nero Cain wrote:Nero
Math
Lowell
Saru
BJ
Iron
Karnos/PP

Fixed

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:13 pm

In post 1909, ironstove wrote:Karnos keeps saying he thinks nero is scum, but keeps driving the wagon off nero.

So are you saying that its a me + Karnos team? Do you think scumKarnos would be above attempting to manipulate you on my lynch? Whst do you think of my 1866?

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:45 pm

like PP going "oh Nero is town" and then suddenly reading Karnos as town for F all reason is p silly and reeks of buddy play.

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:19 pm

What part about it is a stretch?

Nero Cain · Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:02 pm

In post 1922, ironstove wrote:That aron would recruit both scum into the PT and even if he did, why them having day chat when they've already had day chat for pretty much the whole game should implicate that they're both scum. I'm not really seeing a reason behind that.

I think ita a perfectly sound explanation for why PP would want Karnos to be added.

In post 1923, ironstove wrote:On top of that, it's all hypothetical theory that can't be falsified or checked until after the game, so it seems like a waste of time to even discuss it let alone push for why X and Y are a scum team.

I don't see how its any different than a Nero is scum with X b/c he/they said/did this.

In post 1924, ironstove wrote:
In post 1917, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1909, ironstove wrote:Karnos keeps saying he thinks nero is scum, but keeps driving the wagon off nero.
So are you saying that its a me + Karnos team? Do you think scumKarnos would be above attempting to manipulate you on my lynch? Whst do you think of my 1866?
Btw, nice job coming to your partner's defense.

good thing I'm not even defending him.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:37 pm

In post 1929, karnos wrote:In that case, why would penguin say that he asked for me to be added? Why would I collaborate his story?

If PP had a solid town read on you for "tunneling Thor" why do you think he voted you at the beginning of the day?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:40 pm

In post 1937, MathBlade wrote:Probably Penguin and Lowell and Penguin is frustrated his buddy won't move his vote or make effort.

There is no way Karnos is town. That hammer on Thor was deff a bus. He's really who we should be voting for today but no one will do it.

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:56 pm

In post 1939, bji wrote:- He started a wagon on what turned out to be a bad mislynch and which I think could have been identified as a bad mislynch at the time

Like I said before, the last time someone claimed that I should be held responsible for a lynch they flipped scum.

Sure Thor was sheeping me but also town. I don't see anyway you can sit there and say that I'm more responsible than the players that sheeped me. I asked you who you wanted to lynch on d1 and I'm pretty sure that you wanted to lynch townArona. Had you been here and pushed an Arona lynch through should we have lynched you?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:01 pm

but also Math/LMK ran a train on Knight/FA so this proves that your "running up town" is NAI

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:02 pm

Why did you plan on voting me after you called me town?

Nero Cain · Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:23 pm

In post 1939, bji wrote:- He is the only one to have explicitly called Mal scum, everyone else recognized it as a policy lynch. To me this could easily be a slip, overplaying his hand.

lol

In post 738, karnos wrote:Mal might be scum too, hard to say given his lurking

In post 767, karnos wrote:Shit. I see this is totally correct. I apologize, the mal wagon is good. Didn't realize he was blatantly posting in other games while avoiding this one on V/LA.

If Karnos was sheeping my reasoning why does what you are claiming makes me scum not apply to him?

In post 769, ironstove wrote:
It is highly sus that he is posting in other games though
, but I have seen players do this before and forget about other games they are in. How likely is it? I'm not sure, I don't see this situation that often.

So Iron called it a PL, big deal. Tor was sheeping me b/c he was scum, FA clearly states that he didn't have a town read on Mal and I still don't buy that GI was policy lynching and had a legit scum read on him. I'm willing to give you that Aron was policy voting him. So two players were calling it a policy lynch. ok? Who cares. I wasn't and its not like Iron and Arona calling it a PL makes it a PL.